This is the Patriots Catch twenty two podcasts with Evan Lazar and Alex bar and Lazarre.
Hello, everybody nailed it? Joined as always my our bar.
Here is Evan Lazar and Alex Barrs. William Shakespeare was an English playwright, poet, and actor. Yeah, I'm not calling him boom roasted, all right, fine, just like his official biography.
Disagree on Google? Yeah that Wikipedia real good source. Anyways, this is not the point.
It's not the big like uh Britannica whatever. It is the bit like the big book, the one that has.
All the big book with all the facts. Yeah, okay, let me let me finish mine.
Now Shakespeare ex Williams, Evan Lazarre, William Shakespeare. I was and grinding tape and William Shakespeare.
Can you just let me finish the point? Uh no, no, I got I got a lot of flak for for that marine. Oh. You know, Evan doesn't know Shakespeare. Stick to football, Evan, you don't know what you're talking about. Shakespeare wrote sonnets. He was amazing as a poet. I don't know, like make bad eyes, Hamlet. You know, those are the things that I remember from obviously Julius Caesar, which was the point we were going after there that
Alex just you. You just didn't let me get it out. No, no, no surprise there, Alex are you were a little questionable for today's show though you were on the injury report. Listen, is questionable with an illness. How you doing, buddy, how you feeling.
I'm doing better. You're definitely gonna have more windows to talk today. This is the first show I've done since of any kind, since Sunday, So we'll see how my voice holds up. Yeah, short today.
I appreciate I appreciate you toughing it out for us. And you know, there's no Catch twenty two without without either of us, right like then, there's just no show, and there's a lot to talk about. So we're gonna we're gonna push through, and Alex is gonna push through for you guys. And I am upset for you, though, Bart because it's we're gonna preview the Senior Bowl here in a few minutes and uh and and this is
like your this is your super Bowl. You know, this is one of your the biggest weeks out of the year for you. So I'm a little bit Uh, I'm worried that you know, you're not gonna be able to get all your takes about Michael Pratt and whoever you know out in this one.
And you know that's not the quarterback I'm going to have all the takes about. It's not Michael Pennix either.
Oh okay, all right, good teas, good teas. But before we get to it, and the phone lines are like just lighting up. I don't know they're working on them or whatever, but both my goodness. Okay. So so we'll get to the calls in a few minutes here, but I want to start with the latest on the Patriots coaching search, and Alex, I'm going to ask you, as best as you possibly can to to walk me off a little bit of a lunch here with the Patriots
offensive coordinator search. We're texting about this a little bit last night, but basically where we're at right now, the Patriots have only interviewed two known candidates who are free agents or not I shouldn't say free agents, but are just available at the moment because Dan Pitcher in Cincinnati he took the job as their offensive coordinator as everybody expected. And Shane Waldron, who the Patriots did show some interest in he's off the board. He's going to Chicago to
coordinate the Bears offense. So that leaves the Patriots with the two Rams guys that we know. And I want to stress that because just because it hasn't been reported doesn't mean that they haven't interviewed other people.
But I think that Waldron was reported right until after he took the job in Chicago.
Correct, Yeah, So he takes the job in Chicago and then it comes out after the fact that he did have a first round interview with the Patriots. So right now we have Zach Robinson, we have Nick Kyley, and I do think that it's worth saying, and I know that some fans are gonna are not gonna love this, but it's worth saying that Josh McDaniels, I believe is lurking in the background, waiting, waiting to see what happens
with Bill Belichick. If Bill Belichick gets a job, I would expect McDaniels to follow him to his destination, probably Atlanta. If Bill Belichick doesn't get a job, then I would expect him to go as I think Jeff Howard, the athletic I believe it was Jeff Howe reported kind of go to the top of the list a little bit here for girod Mayo. In terms of Patriots offensive coordinator. Here's my walking off the ledge moment. Here's my concern
right now. I look across the league at some of these up and coming hot coordinator candidates, guys like Zach Robinson, guys that are interviewing for these jobs that are popular right now around the league, and I'm trying to figure out why would they take the Patriots job. And I look at a few factors. One, the Patriots don't have a quarterback as of right now, so what you're selling them on is probably taking a quarterback at the top
of the first round. And you get to work with one of these, you know, quarterback prospects, and if you like the guy that you're in lockstep with the Patriots, that you might like Jadon Daniels, you might like Drake may and you can maybe build around that. I guess that might be appealing, But overall, it's a challenge. It's going to be a big challenge for whoever takes this job to put the pieces together to develop the quarterback, to maybe change the system, which I think that they
would at least like to consider doing. You know, obviously they've interviewed a lot of people from the Sean McVay West Coast System tree, the Shanahan McVay tree, and I think they would like to change the systems. So that's a lot of change, it's a lot of unknowns, and I just look at their options, you know, these other coordinators. And I would also mention that Brian Callahan in Tennessee now but in Cincinnati before as their coordinator, is a
great example of this. Brian Callahan never called plays for the Bengals, never called plays. Zach Taylor was the play caller. So this allure of calling plays, I don't necessarily know if that is that big of a thing, because these guys are getting head coaching jobs elsewhere without calling plays in the first place. So what is it that is
attractive about New England other than it's a challenge. It's you get to run your own ship, and if it works out for you, if you hit a home run and you developed a quarterback and do this, that and the other thing, then you're Bobby Slowock, right like, then you're the next big coordinator candidate here.
Look, I think you just hit on a lot of it. I think you're just under selling some of how big these points are. I think if somebody really is enamored with Drake may or Jayden Daniels, then obviously yeah, I'm on down. And you know, you look at some of the other spots where there's open jobs. Are the quarterback situations as attractive as hypothetically having one of these guys
that's going to be a top three pick. I think to kind of go from another angle at one of your points, you are going to get to call your place you're working for a defensive coach. There is no you know, trying to like like with with with Brian Kallen, like is it him? Is it Zach Taylor? I think the most obvious example of this phenomenous Eric p enemy behind Andy Reid for all those years, and it's you know, well is it how much is Erk Penemy really doing?
How good of a coach is now? I thought, excuse me, relatively speaking, he did a good job in Washington last year, and I think he was responsible for a lot of the chief success you see what's happening now. But it's a question people are going to ask no disrespect to Jarrod Mayo, but nobody's gonna ask, well, is it really Gerd Mayo's offense? Right, you are going to have pretty much full autonomy. You should have full autonomy if you're
side of the balls and offense coordinator here. And I think to combine that with another one of your points that helps accelerate to the next job, because I think if, like you said, if the offense explodes here, nobody else is getting the credit. From a coaching point of view, nobody And maybe like roster building, people get credit, mail
gets credit as a motivator. But if it's like all Crisp Clean schematically it's working, the quarterback's developed, you know that's falling on one person, and that's obviously if you want to be a head coach in twenty twenty five, I would say the Patriots job is one of the most attractive in terms of upside. Now the floor is a little lower, but if you can get this thing to work, you're in great shape. So I do think
there are certainly attractive elements toon. Is it the most attractive job, No, but it's hardly the least attractive job either to me, especially now that you have I thought the Bengals and actually Chicago or two of the more attractive jobs. Chicago obviously they'll have we expect they'll have Caleb Williams, so we'll but yeah, No, you keep texting me like, so it's gonna be Josh McDaniels, right, which one?
Every time you text that to me, Because I've obviously kind of been in and out keeping track of the news last couple days, I'm like, all right, who hired Zach Robinson? Who hired Nick Kaylee? Who hired Jerra Johnson? And also when you text me that, I'm thinking, so, what does that mean for Bill? Because McDaniel's probably gonna follow Bill if and when Bill goes so, yeah, I just I don't see it in that picture yet. Is there a path dude ending up being Josh McDaniels. Absolutely,
but it hardly feels like a guarantee right now. And yeah, you mentioned Kaylee and Robinson. I wouldn't sleep on the Texans guys either, And likely Slow was gonna get a head coaching job. I think he actually just uh is about to interview with the Falcons. I think I saw a report on that. But you figure between Ben McDaniels and Jara Johnson, one of those guys is gonna get the bump up to oc uh. I think Jor Johnsons
already interviewed with a couple of other teams. That's a guy I would like to see the Patriots.
Yeah, I just think when it comes to Zach Robinson, you really if I'm Zach Robinson, I'm not sure I'm taking the New England job. It just I think he's gonna have a lot of opportunities here in the next couple of years. He could probably stay with the Rams and potentially get himself a head coaching job in a year or two, just based off of being with McVeigh
and his reputation around the league. I just I look at those types of guys like the Zach Robinson's and say that he's going to have the pick of the litter of all these jobs. And I think a big part of the reason people are wondering, well, what's taking so long? And I know the Bears filled their position pretty quickly with Shane Waldern, but I think one of the things that's taking so long is that there's still
four teams that don't have a head coach yet. So until we know who those four hires are going to be. And then now we still have some you know, teams like last night Jim Harbaugh, you knows the coach of
the Chargers, Like those teams don't have staffs either. So until some of these dominoes start to fall, you'd ever know who some of these hot coordinator candidates are free agent candidates or are gonna end up like a McDaniel's where they're gonna end up going, because there's a lot of chip you know, uh, there's a lot of balls in the air right now in terms of the coaching cycle.
I would just say on on Robinson and to that point that he can wait, you get a better title, you have more control, he gets around your own show. You probably get paid more to I. I if he's going to be that complacent with him, be like, I'll be a head coach eventually whatever. That's kind of well, isn't that attitude kind of scary?
Yeah?
I suppose, But I guess where I'm coming from is more from the fact that if it goes wrong here, then you're in career rebilitation mode after that, Whereas if you stay where you're at and you know that it's going to be successful, or you take another job that's a better job, then maybe you're not in that same book or that in that same uh, you know, on that same path.
He could he could get a better job this year, but there's there's a finite amount of offensive coordinator jobs.
I just look at Bill O'Brien, and first of all, just reading the tea leaves that whole situation. I don't think Bill O'Brien could have gotten out of here fast enough after last year. I don't think he had any real interest in coming back. Some of that's obviously because Bill's not the head coach here anymore, and Bill's his guy. But I look at that situation and now he's going back to college, which I don't think he really wanted
to be in the college game. And he's technically co offensive coordinator at Ohio State right with with your guy Brian Hartline. So he basically took a demotion just to get out of here. And I don't think that his services at the NFL level, because there are some openings around the league. He could have potentially latched on with Bill someplace else. Things like that. I don't necessarily think that there was a ton of options for him because
of how whether it was his fault or not. And I think both of you, you and I have absolved him of a lot of wrongdoing from last year with the Patriots. He coordinated one of the worst offenses in the NFL last year. That's just the bottom line. And I look at some of these guys and if I was them, I would just say the Patriots. It's more the Patriots selling me on the job than the other
way around. If I'm like a guy like Zach Robinson, where it's I need to hear from New England what their plan is to upgrade personnel wise, because remember you have a first time head coach here in New England. You also don't really know from the outside looking in
who's running personnel. And I think that this is part of the other problem with all of this is that when you don't go out and make a real GM higher these candidates on the coaching carousel, they don't necessarily know who's in charge, which I think is something that's a little bit tricky as well. So if you don't know, you.
Don't think they'll the last in the in the meetings, and you don't think the Patriots would tell them if they really want the guy to lay out the organizational structure. I get they won't lay it out for us, but you don't think they'll lay it out for them if they really want it. If it's a guy they really.
Want, I think they would. But that I'm just saying that if I if I'm a guy like Zach Robinson. Again, that's my first question, right is well, what what who's picking the players around here? Like, who's the personnel guy, who's got final say? Who's the guy that's going to be picking the groceries for me? And am I gonna
have say maybe that? I think out of all the things that you could maybe sell one of these these coordinator candidates on, it's them being allowed to have some say in in the personnel side of things they have. You know, let's take Zach Robinson. You know, kind of stay with that with Zach Robinson, like he wants to come here in New England potentially and build like a Sean McVay offense. So to him, it's probably this is the quarterbacks and the draft that I like for that offense.
These are the type of receivers that I need. These are the type of linemen that I need, and maybe he has a way, some say, in being able to put all those things together, because I did want to talk about this a little bit when you start to talk about making this McVeigh offense here in New England, which I think based off of the interviews that the Patriots have had at the coordinator spot, it does seem like Gerrod Mayo wants to go in a different direction
schematically and would prefer to go in a Sean McVay type of.
Direction, minus that whole Josh McDaniels report.
Minus Josh McDaniels, who I think is obviously getting his name floated out there because of more or less of his reputation, and not necessarily like the Tea Leaves, like every other coordinator that they've interviewed has been from the McVeigh tree.
There was a report when Mayo first got hired that was he would like he preferred, not preferred, but like he was very interested in McDaniels.
I could see that. I mean, why wouldn't you be right? And I know that some Patriots fans are going to look at it and say, oh God, not a not
McDaniel's not a retread again, YadA YadA, YadA. But I think the bottom line, and we've talked about this with a guy like McDaniels Alex, is that he has head coaching experience and he has coordinator, you know, head coach of the offense coordinator type experience, where for a first time head coach, having a guy that's that experience on that side of the ball, that can run the show
basically offensively is really appealing. Whether you agree with Josh mcdaniels's schematics, whether you want to go back to their old system and stick with what they've been doing around here for the past twenty five years or not. The experience factor is a big one with McDaniels, whereas with some of these other guys, Kaylee Robinson, even Pitcher, like those guys haven't run the show yet, so who knows,
But just going to like the McVeigh stuff quickly. If you look at some of the things that they're hallmarks right in terms of formations, they run a lot condensed formations, three receiver condensed formations. In those three receiver The type of receivers that they like in San fran and in La are bigger, stockier, explosive receivers that can block. They don't necessarily like the Pop Douglases. And I'm not saying that there wouldn't be a spot in the offense for
Pop Douglas that I think there would be. But you think about the Rams, you think about Cooper Cup, you think about Puka Nakua, right like, those guys are are bigger guys, bigger, sturdier receivers. A big reason why is because they run a lot eleven personnel. So so those guys are asked to block a lot at the point of attack.
In the run in the condensed formations too, so they're you know, not out on an island with a corner where they can just kind of alay.
It, right, so they're basically blocking. They're basically having like tight end type assignments in the run game, and that that means that you have to have some size to you and you have to be able to block and hold up inside like that. They also really like obviously, you know, yards after catch are a big part of it.
So they they look at good route runners, good blockers, explosive ball carriers, right like those are the you know, the Deebo Samuels, the brandon I Yuks, the George Kittles obviously in San Francisco, and then I just mentioned the two guys in LA. So that's a very specific type of receiver. And I'm sure on this program, if they do hire Zach Robinson to be the offensive coordinator, for example, we're going to talk a lot about the type of receivers in this class and how they fit into that system.
And it's not going to be I mentioned to you last night, Bart that I was watching Troy Franklin from from Oregon. Right it's it's not gonna be Troy Franklin, right, Like the one hundred and eighty five pound receiver soaking wet is not going to be the guy that you're going to put in the Puka nakua role in this offense. It's just not going to work out. So that's a big part of it as well, is that if they're going to go in this different direction, then they need
to start building the scheme in this different direction. So I understand where you're coming from, and I I know that I don't want to be like too alarmist about it. The whole thing. I don't think it's that dire that they're not going to be able to find somebody to take the job or anything like that.
You do need to breathe on this stuff. It's once a day I'm getting a text from you about it.
It's just there's that's like that's the man like, because that's.
One thing if you text me when like somebody got a job and you're like, oh, this guy's off the board.
But like, I don't think it's a very just.
No news and you text it to me, I don't know, you need to take take a walk.
There's not a lot of there's not a lot of there's not a lot of positive buzz coming about this this job. I'm just gonna say it to you that way, like, there's it's not a very desirable job. And I think the biggest reason why is, like I just said, you have to it's a risk. It's a risk that if it doesn't work out, then you're gonna have to go tail between the legs, like back to Sean McVay in
LA and be like save my career. You know, Like it's a big risk in terms of what they it's a ball of clay, but it's not necessarily a very known commodity going on here in Chicago, you know, Yeah, maybe they're they draft Caleb Williams, but they also have Justin Fields, and you know who Justin Fields is, and Justin Fields hasn't flamed out quite as hard as like mac Jones has yet. So maybe Shane Waldern believes that
he can fix Justin Fields. Maybe Shane Waldern believes that with Marvin Harrison Junior, he can definitely fix Justin Fields. And I don't know if the Patriots have that. I don't think Mac Jones around the league as rep right now is he's fixable. I think that that's a they need to move on. They need to clean break from both sides. So I hear you, I understand that. You know I'm a little bit worried about it. I'm not I'm not gonna lie. I am a little bit worried
about it. So we can talk about the coordinators. I think on the defensive side of the ball quickly. It does really sound like DeMarcus Comington's gonna get that job as the defensive coordinator for the Patriots. But the two things that I'm interested in some of these guys that they've interviewed other than him, like Hodges from the Saints, Sir Christian Parker from the Broncos, who is a really well thought of defensive backs coach, and those two guys
from externally, let's start there. I wouldn't be surprised if those guys are being interviewed with position coach roles potentially in mind, like they did last year with Adrian Klem So maybe Christian Parker, depending on what happens with Belichick's staff, you know, Mike Pellegrino, Brian Belichick, maybe Christian Parker is brought into coach the secondary. Hodges is maybe a candidate
for linebackers coach. I would say the same thing about Tim Lubka as a coordinator for a candidate for linebackers coach. So all of those things make sense if like that's the staff, right. Grodmeyo obviously is the head coach as a big hand in the defense, DeMarcus Covington is a defensive coordinator, and then those guys are filling in the staff on the defensive side of the ball.
Yeah. Well, Hodges is interesting because he was co defensive coordinators with DeMarcus Covington at Eastern Illinois I think in twenty sixteen before they both jumped to the NFL. So those two guys that know each other have a working relationship, and if you're Covington now you're running your own staff, having a familiar face there definitely makes a ton of sense. The other guy that really interests me you mentioned is Parker simply because he's not a cornerbacks coach and he's
not a safety's coach. He's a defensive backs coach. Yeah, that's his title. The Broncos don't employ people in those two other titles. They have an assistant defensive backs coach. But how many times have we heard Patriots corners and safeties. We asked them about their position room and they say, well, we're all defensive backs. We all consider ourselves one position Like that is definite, and you see it with guys like Jonathan Jones and guys like Miles Bryant. That is
definitely a core philosophy within the BUILDINGSOL. So a guy with Christian Parker's experience working with both positions and kind of tying them together in one group, if that's a philosophy they want to carry over, talk about a guy that has the perfect mindset to do that. I don't know how many other teams I know some teams will have a cornerbacks coach, a safeties coach, and then an assistant defensive backs coach who kind of floats between the two.
I don't know how many teams just have one defensive backs coach and nobody specifically with the corners or safety. So if that's something the Patriots want to emphasize, talk about a uniquely qualified guy to do that. Yeah, Andy, Andy worked with I'm gonna be bad at Names today Patricks Tan, right, and he helped with the rise of Patrister Tan, which is a nice.
Thing, especially for Christian Gonzales. Right.
Bring him in and similar kind of player, very similar.
Kind of players. Christian Gonzalez has talked about Patrick Artan is somebody that he watches and tries to emulate a lot. So I could definitely see that those two guys working well together. And like I said with Brian Belichick, with Mike Pellegrino, if Bill gets the Falcons job, then those two guys, I would say, there's a good chance that they follow him to Atlanta. So you're starting over in
the secondary, is my point. Coaching wise, If you can bring him a guy like Christian Parker in to be the DB's coach, and then maybe you get him an assistant and then that's he's sort of coordinating the back end.
And then DeMarcus Covington, who's got more experience up front with the defensive line, he then coordinates the front end of the defense in the in the the front seven and the lion of scrimmage, and then you kind of marry it together, right and that that that's how a lot of teams have done it in the past, and a lot of teams do it in general, going all the way back to you know, Bill's days in Cleveland with Nick Saban right where those two guys won was
according uh, more of a coverage, you know, secondary coach. One of them was more of a front pressure type of coach, and they were able to combine both of their their brains and and build out a defense from the inside out from there. So definitely a doable situation.
Uh.
I like that. The other thing I wanted to touch on, and then we're gonna take the calls because I did. The call screener is lit up. We have four people on on hold of we really appreciated eight five to five pats, five hundreds of the phone number We're gonna get to all these in the second. Uh, Steve Belichick. I'm really interested to see what happens with Steve.
Uh.
So I was talking, you know, I wrote a piece on Patriots dot com, uh with a couple of the former players, Devin mccordy, Dante high Tower, Ja mccollins, Brandon's It was really fun to catch up with Brandon Spikes by the way out Skuy, You'd like run through a brick wall for you know that guy. Oh God, that guy's got that just intensity, that that you just love. Uh Staff right, Well, he's actually working at Florida with yeah,
with his alma mater. So he's a I don't know if he has an official coaching title or for he's more just kind of like a recruiter slash, you know, football liaison type of person. But yeah, he's working down
in Florida right now. But uh, in general, you're just talking to uh his guy's Devin mccordy kind of laid out for me what exactly Drawed and Steve did behind the scenes, because I know this was a big question for a lot of people the last couple of years, like who was doing what and it was it was pretty much exactly what you might have thought, but it was cool to have somebody that was in the building, that was in the room actually lay out exactly how it went. And uh. He said that Gerard was more
of like the motivator. He'd get up to the front of the room. He'd lead a lot of the of the meetings and be the guy that was, you know, sort of the front facing guy. And he would get up there and he would say, what the mentality, what the mindset that they needed to play the game with, And I'm this is me speaking, I'm kind of you know, dis guessing, you know, things like we gotta stop the run, we gotta do this, we gotta play tough in this pot.
You know, we gotta be physical here, like things like that, right, more of like a mindset or an overall big picture type of view on things. And then Steve would come in and he would talk about how the game plan and the calls that they were actually going to call on the sheet, how those things would tie together to
the things that Gerard was talking about. So it was like Gerard was like the motivator, big picture guy, and then Steve was like the x's and o's this is how we're actually gonna go out there and do it type of guy. And that that worked. That relationship really worked. Those two guys have been really close. We see them around each other all the time, around the facility, on the road, things like that. I think that there's a
really good argument to try to keep Steve around. And I know he hasn't a formally interviewed for the defensive coordinator position, and I know Mike Reese has floated out maybe an assistant head coach title instead of a defensive coordinator, but whatever it ends up being, whatever his title ends up being, I would be making a pitch for Steve to stay whether or not his father gets a job or not.
Yeah, I've been on you with that, and I think there's a case he does. You just look at the personal element of it, having to move his family right and all of that, and yeah, it's a good point. You know, this is where he's from, obviously born and raised here, So I look the draw coaching with his
dad is obviously significant. The other thing, and I don't want to speak for him, but looking at it from the outside looking in, you figure Steve's gonna want to coach after his dad is retired, and I think it could help expediate that to kind of go out on his own right. And he's not totally out on his own in New England, and you know, we don't know
what his road would be. It's not like he's he probably isn't going to be a coordinator out right, but you know, whatever he's in charge of has success here. I think that probably helps expediate that process a little bit.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, all right, let's get to these calls. I've never seen this before, Marine, I've never seen the whole screen filled like this before. This is pretty cool, all right, So let's let's go through the calls.
It's the off season, man, it's an off season showing people.
People are into it. Man, Eric is in New Jersey? What's up? Eric?
Evan? I have to push back on, you know, one of is, you know, one of the philosophies that you've been you know, you've been staying for. You know, you can't necessarily draft the receiver. I don't believe necessarily that we have to draft Marvels and Harrison, but I just really think that it's the quarterback that you're going to get it. You know, you're fighting for Jaden Daniels. I
think May and Williams are going to go first. So with that being because, I mean, look at look at the Cleveland they had Joe Thomas, Joel Battino, Alex Mack. They built that line up and get a quarterback behind that. So I mean, I think there's a couple of ways to get a cast, you know, to get to what you need to get to. But but that being said, you know who do you see if we had Jayden Daniels, who would be the best offensive coordinator to work with here? And I'll take it off the line, Thanks.
Doug, Thanks Eric. Yeah, so I've been I've been pushing back a little bit, Alex as you could shocker could imagine on the Marvin Harrison junior thing, because part of it is, I'll be honest with you, I've I've heard this take from so many different people on in my replies, and I mentioned the calls we got to draft Marvin
Harrison junior. We got a draft Marvin Harrison junior. And I just want to play Devil's advocate, right like, just there is Yes, there are a lot of really good arguments for taking Marvin Harrison Junior, but it's not the only way to go. Just as the caller just said.
I can I give you a fun fact. I think a lot of people are missing. Yes, Marvin Harrison Junior is not the last wide receiver that will be available in the NFL draft. In fact, he's not the only good one available this year, and there will be other drafts after this year too, So just remind people that, yes, he's a tremendous player, he's not the only good wide receiver in college football. He won't be the only good wide receiver in college football.
Yeah, it's a good point. I just I subscribe to the theory and this is just my take on roster building. You can disagree with me, that's fine. But my take on roster building is that you build from the inside out. I think that the best teams are built from the inside out. And I think that all the shiny new toys in terms of the weapons or playmakers, whatever you want to call them, on an offense, those always come after for the most part, after you've built out the
other areas of your team. And I look at the teams that are currently sitting in the championship weekend right now, Alex and all four of these teams are built that way, all four of them. And I'm talking about on offense. And when I say inside out, yeah, the quarterback plays in the middle of the field, so I count the quarterback right, quarterback, offensive line. And then once you have
those that structure, quarterback, offensive line, offensive system. Once you have that structure in place, that's when you make the trade for Christian McCaffrey. That's when you go out and you get you know, weapons in the draft like Detroit did, Jamiir Gibbs, Sam Laporta, They did all those types of things. These teams that are left standing have done all those the extra cherries on top once they've already had the
rest of this stuff in place. So when the Lions went into last year's draft, well, yeah, the Lions don't need to take an offensive lineman because their offensive lines absolutely loaded. So and they like Jared Goff so they didn't have to take a quarterback. So Jamiir Gibbs and Sam Laporta with two of their first three picks made sense for them. Those are two skilled player guys and positions of need for them that could come and put them over the top. And that's exactly what it's done.
You look at baltim More, that team is completely built from the InsideOut offensively because always and they are probably one of the best roster building teams in the league in my mind. So I am just looking at it and I get it. Some Patriots fans look at it and say, well, as a two to three year rebuild anyways, so let's just take the best player available. The safest pick is Marvin Harrison Junior because he's the most talented player in the draft. And maybe you're right, Maybe you're
right about that. I just look at it the other way.
I look at it as Calvin Johnson in Detroit, Larry Fitzgerald in Arizona until they had that one year with Kurt Warner, uh Careerrell, yeah, trel Owens his whole career, and then right now, just a current example is Garrett Wilson with the Jets, who has back to back a thousand yard seasons offensive Rookie of the Year last year with New York in twenty twenty two, and they can't win anything, and why because they don't have a quarterback, they don't have an offensive line that blocks well, they
have a lot of holes elsewhere on the roster. So, yes, you could draft Marvin Harrison Junior and you could do it. You could build it out properly around him and do all these different types of things. But I just think that that's I will always subscribe to the theory that that's the last piece. The receiver is the last piece that you add to it, because if you don't have anybody that can block, and you don't have a quarterback that can get him the ball, it's a waste. He's wasting.
You're wasting away the best years of his career in the cheapest years of his career with a team around him that can't get him the football.
There's very little evidence that you can start or rebuild with a wide receiver successfully started rebuild. I mean, teams have tried to do it. And I texted you this this week. I actually feel like Patriots fans overrate Marvin Harrison Junior a little bit. Not in the sense that he's not a great player, but he's not going to come in and fix everything. He doesn't come in and
then suddenly you know you're a top ten offense. And that's not to say like, yes, the lad no c all right, So you hire an offense Cornadi, you add Marvin Harrison junior. If you don't touch anything else, you're still a bottom half offense in the league. Do you tick up a little bit? Yeah? Probably, But you're talking about, you know, compared to you look at Evan You've talked about this, the Houston Texans being the model for the Patriots. Yeah,
you hit on the quarterback position. The Texans. I'm not going to say that their receivers are bad, they're solid, they're better than the Patriots. But do they have a Marvin Harrison junior? Do they have a Gary Wilson? Do they have that?
Real?
Like Tank Dell is a fun player, he's good, But I mean, is Nico Collins one of these like household names.
That's like, you know, the Texans are a perfect example.
That's what I'm saying, Like.
They should be going and getting the number one receiver this offseason right.
Like exactly exactly. So that's where I look at it, Like you look at what a quarterback can do compared to you look at what a wide receiver can do. And it is a rebuild. You are starting from scratch, So why not shoot for the moon? Why not? Why not go bigger go home, and that's taking a quarterback. So I just you talk about the impact the the position can have, nothing touches quarterback in terms of that impact.
And nobody's going to debate that. Even if you're a big Margaret Harrison person, you can't debate that quarterback is the ultimate impact position.
Yeah. Yeah, I just I can't stress enough how terribly awful the Patriots offensive line was last year. And this is sort of that argument of let's take the quarterback out of it for a second. Let's say they do their homework on the quarterbacks and for whatever reason, they just don't like them. Right. I'm not saying that I agree with that, but let's just.
Kill you either. But we've and somebody said yesterday that they like at least two of them. But I've said this before, and I'll put the qualifier on it. If you don't like the quarterback, don't take a quarterback just to take a quarter.
Right, That's how you end up with Zach Wilson. So you look at.
Well, no, they had options with Zach Wilson and they still took him.
That's true, but there are other options. I don't think we're I mean, justin field is a better option. I shouldn't say that the offensive line was dead last IMpower pluck win rate last year. I have no idea who's coaching that group right now. I don't think it's going to be Adrian klem So that's another opening that they're
going to have to fill. If you tell me that between now and April, they re sign Mike on Winnu, they acquire a veteran tackle that they feel like can can not a Riley Reef right, like somebody that can come in here and actually play right. And they're in a new system with a good offensive line coach. And when I say new system, this McVeigh Shanahan system, one of the good things about it is that it's a really it makes life a lot easier on the offensive
line because of how much they move the pocket. So that allows the quarter It almost allows this scheme to protect the quarterback in a lot of ways, so you're not making the offensive line, you know, leaving them out to dry as much and just like straight drop back type of situations. So if you're telling me that they do all four of those things on when who upgraded veteran tackle? Offensive line code? Who I like and a
scheme that I like. Then maybe we can get to April and say I would take mgh over Joe Alt. But until I checked all four of those boxes, I'm taking the tackle, I'm taking the blindside protector. I'm building it out through the line of scrimmage just like Detroit did. And I'm trying to play play man football, like you like to say, Alex, right, like you know, play a little man football for a little while, and hopefully you
find that quarterback some way, somehow. The Lions found it with Jared Goff just trading for Jared Goff Matthew Stafford. Maybe they find it in the second round. Maybe it's Penix, maybe it's Bo Nix. I take the say up, but maybe it's JJ McCarthy right like something like that. Yeah, but maybe that's the direction that they go in. But again, this is like an argument that we're gonna have for the next four months of if not quarterback, do you
go tackle or receiver? And I'm just saying in that situation, if not quarterback, I'm going tackle. That's where I'm at.
And I think part of it is too, you have to factor because I saw some people in the chat say, oh, if you don't draft Marvin Harrison junior, or and you draft a quarterback who's he throwing it to? There's free agency just rounds two through seven. The reality of the quarterback position is outside of some massive I don't want to say flukes, but not like brock parties in an omaly. You can't build your off season around planning to find
Brock Party in the seventh round. That's just not it's not gonna work.
And there's also right, and there's also the side of it that you know, I've laid this out before. Yeah, you need there's three elements of offense, right, it's system, it's receivers, it's four I guess quarterback, offensive line. Right, like those four boxes, you can probably running you can No, I'm forgetting running backs. You can probably do it with two or three out of the four. You can do it.
You can if you have a really good offensive line and you have a really good quarterback, you can probably make do with lesser than receivers. Just like the rock Party model of the opposite is.
Sure, you also don't need to have lesser than receivers. Again, to go back to the Texans, they found Tank Dell as serviceable player in what the third round? The third round, where did they get Nico Collins. You look at some of the top young receivers in the league. These guys are day two, day three picks in this draft. Evan, I'm getting ready for the Senior Bowl here and I usually pick you know, three or four players in each position to highlight when I write my preview, I can't
shop any of these receivers. I mean, this is as deep a wide receiver class as we've seen in a long time. You can get guys who will be legitimate playmakers, not just like there in filling out a roster spot. But now you have to find the right guy. That's not saying it'll be all of them. You got to
find the right guy develop them. But there are guys to be found and developed on Day two and maybe even early day three that you know have thousand yard potential, that have at the very least low level wide receiver one, high level wide receiver two potential. And that's at the least. You know, there's guys not named Marvin Harrison Junior in this class that will maybe even go on Day two that have the potential to be Pro bowlers. So you can't say that about quarterback. You can't say it as
much about tackle. You do a little bit. We'll get into that, but yeah, there's just and then you go to free agency too, you go to the trade market. There's so many other ways to get wide receivers. Again, Marvin Harrison Junior is not the only wide receiver who will be available in NFL history, and I feel like some people losing sight.
Of the we're also looking at. Like to your point, you look across the playoffs this year, you know, you look in Houston. Nico collins Is has a breakout year with CJ. Stroud. Tank Dell was on that trajectory until he got hurt. Both those guys are mid round draft picks. You look in Green Bay Christian Watson and Romeo Dobbs both mid round draft picks. Jaden Reid also a mid round draft pick. None of those guys are for round picks.
You look in Detroit. Personally, I a Monroe Saint Brown going where he went was because sometimes teams overthink it. A Monroe Saint Brown was awesome at USC. The big reason why he went later was because of his forty times, because of his size. Right, like those types of things, but he was he was a football player. He was a baller at USC and his tape was phenomenal, but he falls in the draft because of his size and
things like that. Sam laporta early second round pick, So that all these teams that are are left standing, I guess besides the Niners, but even Brandon Niyuk was a late first round guy. Like he wasn't you know, top ten type of pick, right, So none of these teams that are left standing right now. Zay Flowers early twenties right last year with the Baltimore Ravens.
Which, by the way, the Patriots can realistically get to if they find a wide receiver in that range.
They really like.
There really isn't a whole lot of teams in this playoffs that have gone far with the number one bona fide you know, Jamar Chase, and I'm it obviously has happened in recent years, so I'm not saying it's never happened, but Tyreek Kill Jamar Chase have done it. But other than that, you know, the this year has been a good year for what I'm trying to kind of trying to say, which is the entire roster building through the line of scrimmage building through the quarterback. You know, things
like that. This these teams are not loaded with like first round Marvin Harrison junior type receiver talent. They might have guys that have gotten to you know, Pro Bowls or a thousand yard receiving years because of their talent, but it was later on in the draft. So it's a good point. All right, Let's go to Max Is in Washington, d C. What's up. Max?
Hey, guys, I'm curious which players on the roster and and fur agency you see it is a better or worse fit with a makes a offense. I know you mentioned to Mario Douglas already. You know it'll be interested and how you think he might be used, you know's a way to scale up what the Rams did with too to out well this year. And then curious if you think of when it would still be heap to fit at right tackle.
Thanks?
Yeah, Max, it's a good question on on one two because you know he's a bigger power downhill run blocker at the position if they're going to run outside zone here Alex, and it's not it's not a great fit to have a three and forty pound tackle you know, trying to block a stretch run that that's just not really what what that's all about. Do I think that he could do it? Yeah? Absolutely, I think he's just he's good enough. He's just talented enough to be able to do it. Is it a perfect fit?
No?
And in reality, you know a guy like Cole Strange City, So those guys are a little bit more athletic and they'll a little bit have a little bit more you know, range and athleticism at their positions for the interior in that type of system. Another guy, not that anybody wants him back necessarily, but Trent Brown is definitely not a
fit for that type of scheme. So if they go in that direction, it would be interesting to see what if they end up prioritizing on when WU on the same level, because I don't think that it's a great fit in terms of what they would want to do schematically versus his skill set.
Yeah. It, And that's why some of this stuff with the free agency and the draft at certain positions, like we'll get into alignment and receivers, Like you said, we got to talk a little bit generally still, and I hate We've been doing this for months now, but it's who's coaching the team, right, Yeah, that's where that thing comes back.
Yeah, yeah, I would actually be pretty fascinated to see how they they view on WHENU if they do hire Zach Robinson.
You know what, at the same time, Zach Robinson's this like offensive genius incorporated three hundred and forty pounds tackle in a West Coast scheme. Maybe there's a way to do that.
You certainly can and you know, there's certain elements I should say of that scheme that on when it would be perfectly perfectly fine at it and probably really good at you know, they in LA after the Super Bowl against the Patriots where they lost and only scored three points. A big part of what McVeigh did, other than that obviously upgrading to Matthew Stafford, but a big part of what McVeigh did was he he incorporated more downhill run
into their offense. Because teams were just sitting on the edges on the outside zone stuff. So he did incorporate a lot more duo in particular to run downhill and stress people in between the numbers so that they couldn't just put double edges out or six to one fronts like the Patriots used in that Super Bowl and just line up guys all across the front and you know, blow up outside zone because we can come at you if we have to, if that's how you're gonna play us.
So in that respect, on when who obviously fits that box right, he can. You know, he's great on on double teams, duo schemes, things like that, and he would be fine in their dropback pass game, you know, when it comes to third down, you know, when it comes to two minutes, when it comes to those types of situations, he'd be perfectly fine in their Way Coast, you know what is more like a traditional West Coast package. When they get into that type of offense, their early down
stuff is obviously very heavy outside zone. But when again at the third down, it's just it's a normal drop back passing game. Like it's obviously a little bit different than what the Patriots are currently doing, but it's it's cut from the same cloth and everything is so on when we would be fine in like three out of the four phases, it's just the base of that offense is outside zone, and he would not be a great fit in the base element of that scheme.
So that could probably you could probably tell me if this is a comp better or you tell me how good of a compass is. But in twenty twenty one they made it work with the three hundred and thirty pound thirty nine year old Andrew Whitworth, who wasn't that mobile at the time. Right, If Whitworth can make it work, and I think he was on the left side right, so.
Yeah, so he's playing the left tackle and Whitworth I do remember him being pretty. It's not so much about if you can cover ten to fifteen side to side. I think it's more about like those reach blocks on the line of scrimmage or things like that, like if you're if you're out leverage and you have to reach the three technique as the tackle and he's playing inside of you, do you have the foot speed? Do you have the explosiveness out of your stance to then get
inside of him and turn him out? Those types of things are difficult to do when you're when you're that size. So that's why a guy like on On WHENU or Trent Brown like they just want to come right at you. They don't want to have to be moving laterally, and I I it's not impossible for on Whenno to fit it, and I have seen him block outside zone in the past pretty well. It just is a much smaller sample size of what they've done here.
Yeah, I got I got you all right?
Mo Is in Orlando? What's up Moe?
Hey, guys, longtime listener. First on Color, I gotta say enjoy any content that you guys put out. Thank you on this uh, you know, offseason moves and with New England having so much money to really spend, I really think that there is a path that we could really set New England's offense up for success.
Like in the here and now.
First step, I think resign one. You give him a tackle money if you have to, but I would put him at right guard. Go get yourself, Jonah Williams from the Bengals. There's your right tackle. Now here's where you guys might not like it so much, but you resigned Trent bound short short term deal and you then you draft like a developmental tackle on the third and have him take over once once Brown is gone. That would leave City so shifting over to left guard. Strange is
now the odd man out. If David Andrews retires, you could try and develop him at center, or just you know, move up Jake Andrews as a starter, resigned Hunter Henry and Perrel Brown, draft another tight end and try and get yourself t Higg and free agency. Sounds like he might just come back on They just might franchise tag him. So if that's not possible, I think Mike Evans might be more realistic that way. When it comes to your
third pick, take your quarterback. Hopefully May is there. I wouldn't mind Daniels, but I think May might be the better fit. And draft another receiver in the second round, and as well as Kendrick Bourne if you can the player's d and I just want to see if you guys agree if this is realistic or if this is something that the Patriots could actually, you know, make work. So I'll take my question off the Ears. Thank you guys.
Thanks Mo. That was a lot. But I I in terms of like my dream offseason, I think Moe hit on a lot of the same things that I would hit on.
I would say, besides the offensive line stuff, he pretty much nailed it right.
It's basically you're you're looking at, you know, go after the big fish in the receiver market and the in free agency, whether it's t Higgins, Michael Pittman, Mike Evans by the way, yeah he's a good player, Calvin Ridley, you know whoever it ends up being. Bring Kendrick burn back, and then draft one of these you know, deep receiver class.
Draft one of these guys in the third round, second, third round, right, and then you're looking at a receiver room of Michael Pittman, Junior Kendrick Bourne, the Mario Douglas and whoever the guy is that you draft in the in on Day two. Uh, that's a pretty good room. And then maybe you know the a Juju, a Devonte Parker, a Taekwon Thornton are still here to fill it out, right, you know, fill out the depth chart. Right, that's a strong room.
Uh.
It's not an elite room, but it's definitely better than what you have.
Uh.
Then you look at the NFL. Yeah, especially if you know the Day two guy is.
Good, especially like you assuming you hit on that guy.
Yeah, then you're looking at uh the offensive line. I have no, I have very little, you know, love it anymore for Trent Brown, Like I'm all, I would much rather see them go in a different direction than Trent Brown. He mentioned He mentioned Jonah Williams. Right, Jonah Williams, I think is an intriguing project of like just can he bounce back from the injuries and maybe you get that
first round talent out of him. But I would be cool with that as like a bridge to somebody that you draft, But you have to have a more concrete long term plan than Jonah Williams. Jonah Williams not going to be your tackle for the next five years. Maybe he's your tackle in twenty twenty four if he can stay on the field, but he's not going to be your tackle long term. So I'd look at that and maybe as like a bridge, kind of like what they
tried to do with Trent Brown in eighteen. Right, Isaiah win Right, I'm am I ready to give up on Cole Strange. My biggest problem with Cole Strange right now Alex is not necessarily film or what he was putting out there. It's durability. There's a chance that he's just not maybe too small right to play the interior and maybe if you move him the center that helps. Usually you can get away with it a little bit more at center in terms of size and things like that.
But something this year he was injury riddle, you know, basically didn't have a training camp because of injury, in and out of the lineup at times, and then he is completely out of the lineup to end the year with the knee injury. So I think that durability is a big question mark with him. But I do think that he was getting better in terms of what he was putting on film and city. So I like him at right guard. I think that he's a good fit there.
What I mind flipping him to left guard, know, but I still think that out of all of the plan that he just laid out, the one thing that I would maybe push back on a little bit is that they have to have a more premium mass set at the tackle position, whether that's the thirty fourth pick in the draft, whether that's trading for more established veteran tackle, whatever the case may be. I need to have a really good plan of how we're going to address left tackle.
Yeah, that's it. You're just you're you're moving a bunch of pieces around. You're not really solving anything in the plan that he laid out, and I think you want to have I'm not saying you're gonna have all five spots figured out for the next five years. But you want to have you want to come out of the offseason with more direction on the offensive line. And again what he laid out right now, you have a first round pick, bench, you're moving a rookie to his second
position to two years. Both your tackles are bridge guys. You drafted a project player, but they have project players. Like what it's different? But is it better?
Yeah? Yeah, that's fair. I think that one of the more underrated things about this offseason is offensive line coach. Like who they bring in to coach the line is such a massive, massive higher for this team right now, and I'm hoping that they're going to hit this. They're going to do better than the last time. When they hire a drink, we'll see. I mean that's gonna be a the offensive coordinator. Yeah, yeah, it's a big higher,
you know. I think offensive line coach coach in terms of position coaches like going down from the coordinator level. I think offensive line coach is the most important assistant coach on your on your entire staff.
I'd still go quarterbacks coach, but I'll give offensive line coach.
Well, I guess I usually assume the offensive coordinator has a big hand in the quarterback, So I lessen some of the past.
If you're for the Patriots, if you're going to have a rookie quarterback, that offensive quarterbacks, that quarterbacks coach is so important. If you're a team with an established quarterback, then yeah, like in a bubble offensive line.
Yeah, it's a it's a huge deal.
Uh.
And the last thing there that I wanted to touch on what I'm trying to follow all these steps here, Oh yeah, Hunter Henry. I would look to retain Hunter Henry. I like his idea of bringing back Hunter Henry and Pharaoh Brown and then and then drafting a tight end some maybe like you know, on day three at.
Some part three. I think Hunter Henry is a very clear franchise tag can that it would actually be a decrease in pay from last year, sets him up as a bridge and then you draft his replacement. He also adds, you know, veteran leadership to a room that's going to have a lot of change.
There you go, I look at Hunter Henry and I look at their tackle spot Alex, and just this is what happens when you ignore needs and you keep on kicking cans down the road. We've been talking about drafting tackle and drafting a developmental tight end to pass the torch to really at both spots. But you know, tackle hopefully more immediate solve and then tight end. Yeah, you have Hunter Henry under contract, you had Jonny Smith under contract, you had Mica Sicky whatever. But they never really had
anybody in the pipeline. And this is a big reason why I don't think that that Bill Belichick is here anymore, is because they stopped planning ahead for these types of holes. We we've been talking so offseason after season.
If I can just pre characterize that, I think it's it's a mix between stopped planning ahead and got behind the sticks because of poor asset management, right, Like, yeah, if Isaay works out, they don't need a plan ahead, Like it it's a backup. There was a backup of needs.
But we've been talking about tackle as like a premium need on this team, like they need to do something big to address this for two or three off seasons. Now I want to say.
It's more than that. I think it's as long as me and you've covered the team.
Since Isaiah Win, I would say for me, since Isaiah Win went belly up, right, Like, since we figured out like maybe nineteen twenty times, you know, somewhere around there, that Isaiah Win was not the answer that that has become a real big need for this team. Last year, we talked at nauseum about the free agent market at tackle, the guys in the draft at tackle, and they did neither, like Riley Reeve and con and Calvin Anderson is doing neither. Like I'm sorry, I.
Don't think we talked about either of those guys until they were signed.
Yeah, because there we were thinking bigger. You know, I understand that not all of those guys. You know, PFF would tell you that not all of those guys from the free agency class last year panned out for their teams. Like mcglinchy I think had a pretty roughy year in Denver, But like, I don't necessarily put a ton into that because that doesn't necessarily mean what they would have done here.
And it was such a big need that Orlando Brown, Juwan Taylor, Mike mcglinchy, Caleb McGarry, like all even an Andre Dillard, who I know I also didn't have a great year where he was at was a Tennessee. Uh yeah, Tennessee. Yes, those guys were just they were better bets than what they ended up with, and they cheaped out at it because I think they looked at it and said, we're paying for C plus talent, which normally I would say
I would agree with. But I think on the offensive line, you can having just like a solid starter at a spot is way more valuable than some other places on the team. It's way more valuable to just have a guy that's not going to completely sink your offense at the at a tackle spot. Then let's just say, you know, having like a league average receiver. I think that really helps you out a ton because it just allows you
to be a functional offense. That's what offensive line play is. Yeah, you can have a dominant offensive line like the Detroit Lions do, and that can be like a tone for your team, right, Like that can really set the tone of how you are as a football team. But you can also just have an offensive line that doesn't screw it up. And you have to at least be at
that baseline. You have to be at the not screw it up baseline, and guys like mcglinch, mclinchy guys like Orlando Brown, they would have done that for this team. They would have been able to be c plus starters, if not more than that for this team, and they pass on it. So here we are again talking about offensive line, and now they have other holes too, and the third overall pick in the draft is probably going
to go to a quarterback. So now we're really talking about offensive line at thirty four or at sixty eight because the offensive line free agency class, let me tell you it is horrible, Alex. It's it's a dark place. Like Miken Win, who is the best one and he's the guy.
You're in a half and Trent Brown might be second.
Yeah, Trent Brown might be the second best tackle available on the market, Like Tyron Smith is available, but he's either going to stay in Dallas or retire, I would think, And you know, then you have you're going down and guy guys like Jonah Williams who are more like rehabilitation projects. So it's a tough it's tough sledding in the tackle market right now in free agency. All right, Mark is in Connecticut. What's up? Mark?
Hey?
Guys?
How you guys are doing today?
Good?
So got a good one here?
For you.
So I've been torn between Marvin Harrison Junior or Jaden Daniels now for a while, but we're forgetting that there is a beast of a tight end in this draft who is a generational talent, and that's Rock Powers. And we've been needing a tight end for a long time. So what about moving back for spot, picking up another second round pick or whatever you get for it, and you can pick Rock Powers and then in the second round you can pick a bow Nicks type of person.
You can get your tackle, and then on the third round you can pick a receiver. I just figured, maybe you know, we can get you know, a couple of pieces by doing that. I just wanted you guys just take on that.
Yeah, thanks for the call, Mark. So, Alex, have you heard mel Kiper's name for the nine offensive prospects at the top of the draft. I think he's no. I think he called them the nifty nine, which I hate. We need to do better. We need to do better than that. But the point, you know, to Mark's call here is that the consensus board that we use right now, Alex, the mock Draft database consensus board, it's nine in a row offensive players at the top one through nine all offense.
I don't think it's ultimately so that's the consensus board. That's not the consensus mock. I think you're going to see nine offensive players unanswered. All right, well, the consensus mock has seven offensive players in a row. And then Dallas Turner jumps in.
Yeah, So I wanted to talk about these guys because I've I've now watched all nine of them. So you have the three, you have the three quarterbacks, right, have Caleb Williams, Drake May, Jayden Daniels, who we've talked about enough. You have the three receivers, Marvin Harrison, Junior Malik Neighbors, Roma Dunze. And then you have the two tackles. You have Joe Alt and Olofashanu, and then you have brock Bowers, right.
And brock Bowers is the last one that I watched because probably the least likely to draft a tight end. But you've been talking about brock Bowers for two years, which is you know, typical. But he I mean, he's he's outrageous, like I don't know how else to describe it, Like he's he's terrific. He's as complete of a tight end as I've seen in the draft in the last four or five years. You know, there are other guys that, like, you know, t J. Hawkinson coming out was a really
good blocker. You know, he probably was as good of a point of attack blocker as brock Bowers is. I thought Sam Laporter was as good potentially as a receiver, but the whole package of being able to block and being able to impact the pass game like he does, I don't think I've ever seen it. The comp that
I think is probably pretty fair is George Kittle. I think that's exactly how he plays, not exactly the most you know, quick twitch at the top of the route like Laporte is, like he's not a big change of direction guy, but he's extremely explosive up the seam. He's really a vertical threat at the position, like he can run the scene, he can run the wheel, he can run a post crossing route like he can get open
on the vertical plane. And then he's also got an unbelievable ability as a ballcarrier, like really elite, elite yat guy. And then you add in the blocking too. That's extremely valuable for an offense to have a tight end that's that versatile and I have to admit watching him block and watching him block with his hand in the dirt, it does. It really did like hit home with me that I was like, man, you know, this is so valuable.
You know, not to pick on Hunter Henry or whatever, but the Patriots haven't truly had an extra offensive lineman type at blocking at the end the line of scrimmage since Gronk and that just watching the Georgia offense and how valuable he is as a blocking chip, whether it's in line, whether it's detached from the formation where he can you know, block at the point of attack on a screen or jet sweep or something like that. He's
a rare specimen. But it it just doesn't make a ton of sense in terms of the positional value, you know, and all that type of stuff. But in terms of talent, generational talent, I would say at the position, I.
Mean, Evan, how many times the last few years the top tight end in the draft is always annointed baby Gronk, right, and remember last year, But you can't miss Michael Mayor, you can't miss Michael Mayor. Excuse me, I was like, can't miss Michael Mayor, can't miss Michael mahyor you could, you could the whole baby Gronk thing. This is this is the eye. And I'm not saying he is gronk. Nobody's gronk, but like, if you were going to give anybody that title, uh, he is, I would say he's
the best tight end prospect definitely since Kyle Pitts. Let's not forget how elite Pits was. And I don't think that was a miss evaluation. I think the Falcons just don't know how to use them. Yeah, and I mean you go back before him. To find another tight end to that that level, you got to go way back, like way way. I'm still scrolling here. It's been a while. So he's a tremendous player. He's a tremendous all around player. I think some of it goes back to what we
talked about with Harrison. It's just so hard to start or rebuild at that position. He's more, you know, that's the kind of guy you take when you have a high first round pick because you traded for a pick or your quarterback was hurt, right Like, you look at like a team like the Chargers, that the Chargers, the Bears.
Yeah, that that have a decent roster around, you know, already going in the right direction parsonnel wise, and then you add brock Bowers next to Keenan Allen next to Mike Williams, like that, that becomes a real factor. So, Michael Mayer, I'm glad you brought brought those guys up. Like, Michael Mayer, to me, the cop was always like a
hunter Henry. As a receiver, he's a better blocker, but I just mean in terms of the receiving uh side of things, where he's a really steady receiver, but he wasn't an explosive guy, right Like, He's not like a big play type of player, whereas like Laporta was more of that explosive, big play receiver, but he didn't have
the blocking chops. So, like to keep it in perspective with brock Bowers, I think that he's like a combination of the two of those guys, right Like, he is a receiver like Laporta, but he's a blocker like Mayor, and that is just as a really really rare blocker like Washington. It's a really rare well, Donald Washington found out, you know, Anthony Jennings told.
Donald Anthony Jennings this year.
That's not fair.
I'm just saying, like, no nobody could block him this year, like it wasn't just Darnel Washington. So give Anthony Jennings credit.
That's fair. But yeah, I I you can't deny, you know, watching these guys, you know, through the top of the draft here. I feel the same way about Melik Neighbors.
Like Milik Neighbors is a fantastic prospect too. His ability it's not just like that he's fast in a straight line, but he's got that ability to gear down, which I love, which like you can start at you know, first gear, and then as you're running the route, you go from one to six right six gear you know in a car analogy here like that that allows you to really vary speeds and pacing and things like that. That's how
you create separations. So he's one of those guys that Melik Neighbors will like lull you to sleep, low you to sleep, and then all of a sudden he turns on the jets and nobody can come can come close to reaching that type of acceleration and he's just by you. And that's a rare, rare talent too, that he pops off the film at you with that.
This is something I've talked about, but now that you've watched these guys, I can finally ask you this. Yeah, how many of these receivers in this class? How deep into this class was Uintin Johnson was the first end up being the first place in the draft last year?
Right?
Wasn't him?
Or was it z A?
I can't right? They all went around, Yeah, I all went in a row.
I want to I want to say that that you're I'll look it up, but keep going.
It was JSN is JSN at twenty? How far into this class would you rank JSN? So you know I'm not a key on Coleman guy, Right, So I would just watch Brian Thomas.
I haven't watched Brian Thomas specifically yet, but I obviously saw him with when I was watching Daniels and Neighbors. So I've I've watched LSU film and nat see.
I watched Troy Franklin. But you don't watch Brian.
Yeah, because you know I watched Troy Franklin because I I I I had seen some things on Twitter about Troy Franklin and I kind of thought I was gonna like him, and I kind of did like him, so I wanted I was curious, so I jumped to him.
You're not curious about Brian Thomas, not.
As much because I feel like Brian Thomas is in like a weird spot of the draft for the Patriots.
Oh, He's in a great spot in the draft for the Patriots. You think I think he's gonna ate first early second.
I don't. I don't think he's gonna last that long.
You think he might move on right, fair enough?
I think he's probably going at the I think he's going early twenties at the lowest. Okay, So I would say that between the big three, right and Brian Thomas, like maybe we would start talking about JSN as like wide receiver five in this class?
Okay, in that category, I think, did you have him as wide receiver one last year?
Was? Yeah? I fower? Yeah.
So just to just to kind of paint the picture I'm saying of this class because I think people believe it more when they hear it from you than when they hear it from me. So you would have had last year's wide receiver one as wide receiver five? Yeah, we had You want to try to place the other three.
For me or okay, so Quentin Johnston he would be low. I would probably have Quinton Johnston.
Well, where would you have him compared to Keon Coleman, because it's the same kind of player. Ke On Coleman is kind of the top version of that player in this draft.
Yeah, I would say Keon Coleman, though, has better ball skills in Quentin Johnson. That was my biggest knock on Quinton Johnson was his hands and his ball skills. Like what we saw here in New England. I know it was raining and that was like a factor, but that was not an anomaly with Quinton Johnson. His hands are horrible. He's bad at tracking the ball. He's bad in contested
catching situations. Kean Coleman also has some not so great contested catch numbers, believe it or not, but he has some real crazy I mean, as you know, he has some crazy highlight catches. So I'd look at oh Man.
I mean, I can keep going here. Ad Mitchell and Xavier ly Guet would be the next two guys.
Yeah, yeah, I would say that. I'd have Quinton Johnson, probably right after Ady Mitchell. I think I love Adie Mitchell. I think he might be a better player than Quinton Johnson because Adie Mitchell the thing that I love about him, well, first of all, he catches the ball better, so that that's one great great, But second one is his body control I think is phenomenal. Whereas like Quentin Johnson was more he's an explosive guy, like he can get down the field and he can, you know, build up speed.
But I think Adie Mitchell's body control, hands, ability to work the sidelines, like all the details of his game I think are better. So I probably have a guy like Quentin Johnson as like wide receiver seven or eight in this class.
Right, did you watch Leget yet? I know he'll be at the Senior Bowl.
No, because he's gonna be at the Senior Bowl, so I'll watch him there. Yeah, I think so as well, and especially if they're gonna go McVeigh offense, like I'm interested and his skill set. The guy that I really like out of this next group though, is Jalen Polk. I think Jalen Polk would be a really fun receiver for them. Can play X, can play a little Z. You know, explosive guy, runs really good routes. I really like Polk a lot, and I like what.
Crazy to say, I see a little Jacoby Myers in.
His game, No, I could see that. I think he's a little faster than Jacause, a little.
More explosive than I don't think he sees the field Obviously, Jacoby was a quarterback, so that helps it. But like I think in terms of guy that can consistently move the chains, yeah, like I just I see him as like a reliable chain moving wide receiver. But like you said, he's got I think you've referred to him as like day two Jacoby, where like he's got a little more pop than Jacoby did coming out where there's a little bit more of a big play threat.
Yeah, yeah, I would agree with that. I think is his ability to get down the field is a little bit better than Jacoby's, right, like the vertical ability. But he's a fun player too, And I like Roman Wilson from Michigan too. And ye, lad McConkey is going to be at the Senior Bowl. We'll see about him. Yeah, yeah, I saw some things about him, you know, with Brock
Bauers film and things like that that I liked. He's one of those guys though that he's got like sneaky speed, and he's he doesn't have any wasted movement at the top of the route, which can be valuable. It's not he's not a game changer, I don't think at the position. But he's he's really technically sound, which I think is helpful as like a wide receiver three type, you know, but he's definitely not somebody that I'm saying is like a number one guy. Quickly, before we take the rest.
I gotta ask you to place one more guy, z A. Flowers.
Oh, you know, I love Zay.
I know I will.
I would say that Zay. I'd probably put him right in the area of the two Texas guys. You know, he's really similar to Xavier Worthy. You know, they're really similar players. I think Xavier Worthy is just a little bit bigger than Zay is. Uh So I think that helps him.
Somewhere around like wide receiver six, wide receivers seven.
Yeah, that's probably fair.
So again, just to just to point out what this wide receiver class is. All these guys were first round picks last year. Ivan has at least three of them great his second round picks in this class.
Yeah, Jordan Adison too, Jordan Addison would be would be like right in the Texas guys range, right, like, you know, early second round type. So yeah, it's it's an incredible class.
It is.
And and that's i think a big part of it that we keep on stressing is that you can get these receivers pretty much throughout the entire I was a top seventy five, top one hundred picks. There's gonna be there's gonna be guys that are gonna go in this class that are gonna be day one impact players. Like that's just how good the class is. Now you have to get the right one, which we know the Patriots
have facts them. Yeah, but in terms of the talent, all of them are there for the taking, in terms of you know, guys that can come on this team. And no, it's I'm not saying that they're gonna be a thousand yard receivers right out of the gate, But is anybody upset about the season that Pop Douglas just had, right Like, you know guys that that can that can come in and make an immediate impact. And I think that's a big part of it. Quickly, before we take
the more calls and get into the Senior Bowl. I did mention Joe Alton Ola Fashane, So I watched both of those guys. Uh, I'm not gonna lie to you, Alex Joe Alt just like he does it for me like that. That guy is just exactly what when I watch tackles in the draft, I want my tackle to play exactly like Joel. That guy is going to be a ten year NFL franchise cornerstone. I'm telling you that
right now. And I say that like always with the caveat that if injuries come into play, injuries come into play, right, he can't predict who's gonna get hurt, right, But if he stays healthy and he stays on the field and all that kind of stuff, he is going to be an impact type of starter. Like when we talk about the cliches with tackles, all you draft this guy, you plug him in, you don't worry about it for the next ten years. I truly feel that way with Joald.
I think that he's that good. He's athletic, he can move his feet, he can get out of his stance well, he blocks on the island well and pass protection. He's not exactly like a people mover. I wouldn't describe him in the run game. But he does finish well. And he's a really good positional blocker with his footwork and
his leverage and things like that. He walls off guys like he's more of like a wall off type of blocker than a you want turn on the film and he's moving guys ten yards off the line of scrimmage. But that's okay too. He's all around, just great, all around. Like, there's not a whole lot of flaws to his game. I thought he dominated Ohio State. Uh, and and there those head dressers like didn't even flinch. I think the one flaw with him on film, uh is that he
does get bull rushed a little bit sometimes. But I think that that's more of like technique than anything.
I don't.
I don't. I think that's correctable and you'll you'll, you'll figure out a way to fix that with him over the course of time.
Uh.
He's terrific. I wasn't as I just.
Real quick, I'd say again to everybody you know, says, how could you when we do just when we take the quarterback out of it and do just tackle receiver, how can you not take Marvin Harrison dreams a generational wide receiver prospect. He's that, you know that Joe Alt's that, but a tackle. Yeah, I don't know if you would agree, but that's how I feel like. I did you hear about the hype down down to UH, because I know a lot of people like to point to, uh, Marvin
Harrison's pedigree there Joealt's dad. It was also a great NFL player. John Alt was attacked for the Chiefs for I think like ten years. Twelve years was a multi time All Pro. So, I mean you're literally talking about like the same makeup, just you know, say in terms of the scouting report, where you know, highly technically skilled, great bill, the athletic like all of it, the background, the pedigree coming from a big school, there's a lot of overlap between all Marvin Harrison junior.
When you watch offensive lineman, especially guys like that like
Joe All, first round, top ten type of guys. Yeah, when you watch a guy like Joe Alt, I know he plays left tackle for Notre Dame, But if I didn't know what position he played and who he was and what number he wore, I'd still be able to point him out right like I'd still be able to turn on the film and be like, that's probably the guy I'm supposed to be watching, right because he's just he's that good, that he stands out above the rest
of his peers that much. And I think the biggest thing with him again is that he's a total He's a total package. He can pass block, he can run block. He's got size, like, there's no there's no question physically with his game, like, he's got length, he's got good hand placement, good hand strength, he's got good feet, good foot speed.
Athletics say he's young too, He's only twenty, so he's got, you know, still room to grow and fill out.
I know, look, I know that I'm gonna be the only one that's excited if they take him. I know that that's all right. I'm willing to be the only one.
I remember in October somebody called in about a Q take I had on another show saying I'd rather have Alton Marvin Harrison all confused.
Yeah, I'm okay with being the only one. And when he comes, when we do the introductory press conference out on the field, and then we get to talk to him for ten minutes on unfiltered. Usually afterwards, there was a running joke. I don't know if we publish like the way I was looking at Christian Gonzales last year, like a you know, very very pleased person, and I would be looking at Joe Walt the same way. I'd be like, hell, yes, this is this is exactly what
they need. Ola Fashan, who's got a lot of things going for him as well, I wasn't as impressed. But he's he's a specimen, like a physical specimen. Like you can see that he's in great shape, and he's built very well, long arms, long limbs, you know, barrel chested, he's chiseled, he's a he's a he's an athlete, and you can tell that right off the bat. I don't think he's quite as refined in terms of like his hand placement, is usage of his hands, his footwork, you know,
those types of things as Joe Alt is. But in terms of upside, I can understand why some people might have him a little bit higher than all just because of his athleticism, and you know, he's quick out of his stance. He can move in mirror guys and pass rough situations. He's really good inside hand to counter right when guys try to spin up or move inside on him, He's good at that. The Ohio State film was like the big one with him that everybody's like, Oh, it's horrible,
you know. I didn't think it was quite as bad as as some people made it out to. But there were some reps there certainly that he lost his technique. And that's that's the reason why I would have Joe Alt ahead of him. I think Joeald consistently gets the job done, whereas Uhano has some lapses in technique every once in a while.
Fashana reminds me of we did a lot obviously last year on Broderick Jones.
Yeah.
For Shanda reminds me a lot of a like more developed Broderick Jones, like a Top ten Because Broderick Jones retired his game was raw. His game was raw, and and he hadn't been playing the position as much. For Shana was many many more STAPs under his belt in the shows, and it should. Yeah, so I kind of like a top ten version of the player Broderck Jones was, which is a good thing.
That's a good comp that's a good cop. The the Joe Alt comp is tough because of his size, right, Like I think he plans you know who it is, who is it?
Joe Thomas.
He's bigger than Joe Thomas.
Well, but Joe Thomas was like fifteen years ago. Guys, weren't that big fifteen years ago?
That's fair. Yeah, I don't know.
That's again at I've said this before. There's a little bit of hyperbole here.
It's not that I have a tough time putting people in Joe Thomas's I do too, but that's like, oh, yeah, you're just gonna be you know, the best tackle of all time.
I mean, it's it's a ceiling camp. But when uh, when we started doing this, the the alt versus Marvin Harrison Junior thing that the slightly the kind of mostly hyperbolic but not entirely hyperbolic question is starting a team you get to add one player at the beginning of their career, Joe Thomas or Calvin Johnson, who are you adding?
Well, you you know, I'm going It depends on your situation though, right, like starting team, starting a team from scratch, Yeah, I'm.
Starting an offense from scratch, because that's more or less what the Patriots are doing.
I'm going Joe Thomas.
You know that right there?
You go like I.
And what's great about it is when people say, oh, you're signing attack, you're adding a tackle. What does a tackle do? Or oh you're adding a receiver, what does a receiver do? Neither of those guys won anything, which is why the argument always comes back to quarterback.
All right, let's get back into the calls here. Miko is in Philly. What's up, Miko?
Hey, So, going back to the coaching side, back when we were exploring if Celtic was to day, I think one of the conditions we talked about was essentially appointing Phil O'Brien as the head coach of the offense with
a lot of sway over personnel decisions. So fast forward to now, with Mayo coming from the defensive side of the ball, is that head coach of the offense responsibility build a pitch to offensive coordinator or candidates with far less experience than Bill O'Brian like Hayley or Robinson.
Yeah, thanks for the call of Mika. I'm sorry about the phone line. That's not you, that's us. Yeah, that's that's a fair point. Alex, you know, are you going to trust a first time offensive coordinator to start making personnel decisions and things like that. More than a fair point.
I think that was more when we talked about that, that was more something that candidates were pitching to the Patriots, yeah, than than the Patriots. The pitcher can't. It's a candidate coming in and saying, hey, look I have this experience. See, it wasn't so much the Patriot saying here's this opportunity for you. It was an experienced Canada coming in and saying, this is what I add that some of these younger guys, some of these inexperienced guys don't.
Yeah. I think that that's when they start getting into the in person because Drod Mayo is on EI the other day and he mentioned, you know, first virtual interviews. First round is just kind of like your standard boiler played interview, getting to know the guy, you know, getting to know his background, things like that.
You see yourself in five years.
Yeah. The second round, when they get them here in person is when you start putting them up on the whiteboard, right, Like, that's when you start to really get into the x's and o's and how it would look if I'm the Patriots. Like, I'm telling these guys to come in with with their homework done, and I'm saying Drake May, Jade and Daniels, and maybe I throw just like a Penix or Nicks at them too, just to you know, say, cover all of our bases of how this could go right?
Right, Day two guy, your favorite Day two guys, how.
What's your plan? Right? Like, what if we draft Jaden Daniels in April, what's the offense going to look like? If we draft Drake May and April, what the offense gonna look like? That's how I would pick their brains. That's how I would go about it. And you gotta like their pitch, right, you gotta like what they're gonna do with it. And then maybe if you do and you like you say, oh wow, like that he's really you know, Jade and Daniels, that's a perfect We love
that idea, right, like we love all these ideas. We love what he's thinking, all that kind of stuff. Then you can sort of get into the report of like, well, okay, well why do you like Jaden Daniels versus Drake May versus whoever?
You know?
So I agree, I think that you have to be careful about giving too much personnel power to an inexperienced coordinator. D C is in New Hampshire. What's up these up? We left him on hole too long? I thought that might happen. Alex is in Atlanta. What's up, Alex?
How you doing?
Can you?
Yes? Go ahead?
Yeah?
Oh well anyway, our first thing I want to say, Man, y'all do amazing job. So thank you' all for that. Man, it's all season so far. You know, I'm loving it.
Thank you, thank you.
Yeah, I just kind of I just kind of got got on. I don't know if y'all have talked about it, but it's a receiver that I like, honestly, ke On Coleman. I don't know how y'all feel about them. Like I said again, I just joined in, But how do y'all feel about him? And that's that's that's the only question I had. But thank y'all so much.
Thanks Alex, thanks for the call. So I'm not a big key on Coleman guy, but I will admit that maybe my mind is a little bit, a little bit scarred by Nikhil Harry Alex Right, Like I I when I look at receivers, that don't separate well at the top of the route, and a lot of the highlights that I see of them, And obviously highlights is not everything, like you need to watch the actual film, but highlights I think are are sometimes can be important, especially with receivers.
It's the one time where I would say that I do actually watch some highlight reels of guys, because you want to see how they win, right, Like what are like the big plays that they make and how do they make them? And when you see a lot of the highlights of Keon Coleman, it's like these one handed catches. He's acrobatic catches just great, but it's not a whole lot of like he wins at the top of the route, runs away from the coverage and he's off right, Like
you don't see a ton of that. And his statistically, his profile is not very good. He didn't actually produce all that much in last year, right, I think he had like six hundred seven hundred yards receiving.
And uh, his contention, he's a red zone guy.
His contested catch numbers though he's only catching like thirty three thirty four percent of his contested targets, Like for uh, comparison's sake, Roma Dunsay, want to guess how many of his contested cards.
Oh, that's that's got to be up over like sixty sixty.
Five percent, seventy five percent.
Yeah, dude's awesome.
Romadud throwing a jump out of rum Madunzay, you have a seventy five percent chance of him catching the ball.
You know why because his catch radius is that is.
That is absurd, absolutely absurd. So I I look at Keon Coleman, and I have a little bit of cold feet. How about you?
I mean I like Keon Coleman definitely more than you. I think there's a ton of value in that skill set. I think for the Patriots, you're probably well, I guess what offensive system are you running? I'm so in the default of like, they need more speed in athleticism, and that's not where Coleman wins. But if they're gonna do the McVeigh thing where they need these big physical receivers, that's a fair ke Coleman's going to be the guy
you talk about. Now. I wouldn't be afraid if that's the kind of receiver you want, you want to use that pick elsewhere you go A little further down the board, you look at his teammate Johnny Wilson. Johnny Wilson six ' seven, two hundred and thirty five pounds and was reportedly running four for US in high school. If he does that at the combine, I mean, this guy's basically remember Zach Kunz last year. Cons That's that's kind of what you're
looking at with Johnny Wilson. If he's really six seven, two thirty five and running four to four, it becomes Dwan Jones Jarik wooland it's he's gonna be my guy this year. That it's it's gonna look too good to be true, but it is. Now. Johnny Wilson's hands aren't great, and this is you're probably gonna camp him to Quentin Johnston. Yeah, but if you can get if you get a good wide receivers coach who can work on him with that. And the thing about Johnny Wilson, his hands are actually
really good and contested catch situations. It's just when he's open. So as much as that sounds annoying, it's also more fixable. I'm not saying he's gonna solve all your wide receiver problems, you know, just like that, you'd still need to go out and get Michael Pittman or somebody. But if you want to invest in a project, guy uh late on day two and you want that kind of jump ball physical specimen, great size, wide receiver. I think Johnny Wilson's
upside is tremendous. Now his floor is not quite what it is with some other guys, and that's a risk that's going to scare people off, and I understand that. But his his ceiling is unreal.
Yeah, yeah, that's a good point.
I think he'll be I think he's at the Senior Bowl, I believe.
Yeah, I think that. You know, I need to give Keon Coleman another watch because I know a lot of people do really like him, and I just I'm gonna there's certain guys that I just think of Patriot Bus in the past, right, Like you know, I've talked about this with the quarterbacks ales, Like every time I watch a quarterback now, I'm like, why is he not Mac Jones?
Right?
Like what about him is just different from Mac that I can be like, all right, this is not gonna go horribly wrong this time around. And I feel the same way about guy like Kean Coleman to Nikhil Harry to some of their other you know misses, and that that type of mold in the past. All Right, Nate is in Ohio. What's up, Nate? Nate? Nate going once? All right, Nate, you can call back and we'll get you on the air. Matt is in Virginia. What's up, Matt?
Hey, guys, the.
First time caller, longtime listener. I've been listening since the early Beat days, and I gotta say I love, love, love your content.
Thanks, thank you, appreciate that you guys.
Had mentioned earlier maybe looking into the tackle trade market, maybe getting yourself a veteran. What kind of options would you say would be out there for the Patriots realistically.
Yeah, that's a good question, Matt. I'll admit I haven't Thanks for the call. I haven't dug deep into like the veteran market so much yet, Alex. But I feel like there's always there's always guys that come out of the woodwork. Do you have anybody on your mind? There's one that I have, but I want to make sure I get the situation right.
I honestly think the trademark is more going with the wide receiver, just because there's such a tackle shortage on tackles, getting anybody that's worth trading for is going to be just monumentally expensive.
Yeah, so our our guy, Dwan Jones is uh so think no, no, no, I don't think that he's going to be available. He went to the Browns, right, am, I like spacing here for some reason he did.
He's if he's not on the rust. I think he got put on IR late in the year.
So Dewan Jones goes to the Browns and the Browns have two Yeah, yeah, I got this right. I don't know why.
I'm like, no, he's definitely on the Browns.
No, I know, I know.
But Jack Conklin on the Browns their right tackle, veteran right tackle, good player in the league. So they have Jedrick Willis, who's they're starting left tackle, is one of the best in the league right, so he's gonna stay over there. Dwan Jones is probably in line to take over for Jack Conklin at right tackle right going into next year. That that could be a situation where Jack Conklin is like a you know, a lamb duck type of asset. You know, it's just somebody that is somebody
that they don't need to pay anymore. So if I there's one guy that I would look at in terms of being available in the veteran market at tackle, it would be called in Cleveland because Cleveland has embarrassment of riches on the offensive line and they have one of the best offensive line coaches in football. I don't know if he's going to follow his son to Tennessee, but
Bill Callahan coaches their offensive line. Who's Brian Callahan's father, So there's a chance that he might follow his you know, go go coach the line for his son. We'll see. But I would call the Browns. They have like sixteen tackles, you know, they one of those guys might be available. Maybe a guy like Conklin.
All right, he's got a pretty minute I'm just looking at now. He's got a pretty manageable contract too. He's signed through twenty six. Cap hit this year would be twelve million, jumps up to nineteen the next two, and then he's got two void years on the end of his deal. But they're pretty they're pretty minimal.
I know, you know, the Browns because mostly because of the Deshaun Watson contract, the Browns are have an extremely high payroll, like they're one of the highest in terms of actual you know, the Felger right, the real cash spending, and they might be looking to make some cuts, you know, the guys that they don't necessarily need, like a Jack Conklin.
It could become available. All right, before we get into the Senior Bowl, which we are going to do for the next thirty twenty to thirty minutes here to end the show, I really quickly want to talk about Kellen Moore and you know, the big news in the football where the last twenty four hours was Jim Harbaugh right going to the Chargers. Jim Harbaugh is more than likely going to have his own staff, and Jim Harbor's an offensive guy. He's a quarterback guy, but he's most likely
going to have his own offensive staff. And the Browns have put in a request now to interview Kellen Moore Alex for their offensive coordinator position, and he got blocked. There's another team that wanted to interview him earlier in the process and the Chargers hadn't settled on a head coach yet, so they blocked the interview. But now it sounds like they're going to allow Kellen Moore to start
interviewing places. I put out last night on Twitter that my mind immediately goes to Kellen Moore and what is going to happen with him? When Jim Harbaugh's news was announced, and I got all sorts of push back on Twitter, Why would you want Kellen Moore? Why would you want Kellen Moore? Alex? Would you want Kellen Moore? Yes or no?
Yeah? I don't know that he'd be my top choice, but I mean I'd be very happy if they hired him. He'd definitely be up there for me. I think he I like the offenses he designs. I think they're very layered. I think that they're not easy to defend. And I think he has a good understanding the quarterback position. And I think that he does a good job working with quarterbacks.
So those are two massive boxes that are checked. I also, I don't know, like in my mind he'd be a flight risk because I think he's somebody who should be close close to being a head coach, But it doesn't seem like the league feels that way. Yeah, So I
mean he'll get his chance. If he comes here and he's good, he'll get his chance, but maybe get two years with him instead of one or something like that, right, if it works out so and then obviously there's the element of if they draft Michael Pennix, which I don't think they will, but lefty quarterback because Moore was a lefty played in the league for a lefty quarterback. But no,
I've always liked Kellen Moore. I think he's, you know, one of the more understated offensive minds in the game, and they would I think his offenses would be fun to watch. And I think if you get the right pieces in place, I mean I think, I know, we've seen it, they can be effective. I know he never really won anything in terms of the postseason, but look who he was working for, right, I think if you you give him a defense like he'd have here and that that changes a lot of things.
Yeah, it's funny because when the Charters came here, I had written in my game preview that I had an eye on Kellen Moore because if the Patriots are actually I had my eye on him as potentially a head coach candidate. Right, like crazy, how far we've come. But I feel like with Kellen Moore, the thing that I that I really liked. You know about his offense is
that it is West Coast based. You know, he comes from the Mike McCarthy tree, and and you know he does some some West Coast things, but it's pretty multiple game to game, like, he's a pretty good game plan coach, and there's always some wrinkles in there, not necessarily.
Like you got to remember what his background is as a player coming from Boise State, right, I think he incorporates he blends the two very well. Which when I say it's multiple, like, there's not a ton of things in the big picture over the course was season that you just can kind of sit on.
Yeah, And I look at him and, uh, he does have some tricks up asleep, But I I more look at his his base offense as a pretty stable and consistent and like, you know, just schematically sound type of offense. Is it as innovative and as creative as like a McVeigh Shanahan. No, it's definitely more in the in the Patriot, you know, ep old school West Coast type of system that's more about formations and matchups and fundamentals and like
that type of stuff. But I I do like a lot of the things that that he brings to the table. And he's a quarterback guy, which I like, right and uh and and you know young quarterback guy that that can do it. And the last thing that I that I like about him, as you can imagine, the reason why the Cowboys parted ways with him, was because he wanted to score too many points.
Remember that he wants to set The Cowboys are the charger, the chargers. It was a cowboy fired, fired because they didn't want to run the ball enough.
That was Kellen Moore's So Kellen Moore with the Cowboys, Mike McCarthy's whole thing was he wants to light up the scoreboard and I want to rest my defense, right like that? That was that was the whole thing was that Kellen Moore just wanted to throw the ball forty times a game. I'm not saying you have to have some sort of balance, right, we know that, right, But I like the idea. You know, I like his mindset. I think Kellen Moore has like an attack mindset that
he wants. He wants to have an offense that's gonna score a lot of points. And lastly, on this topic, you know that I've thought that the Chargers roster talent has been overrated for a couple of years now, and I still feel that way. I'm not trying to absolve him of all things, Like I know that their offense wasn't great last year.
You just don't want to criticize your boy, Brandon Staley.
No, no, no, I just really don't. I think a lot of people look at the Chargers roster and they only look at the top of the roster, right, They're only looking at Justin Herbert Keenan Allen. You know some of the guys that they have on the defensive side of the ball, you know, Derwin James Khalil Mack, you know those types of guys. Their their rosters has had a lot of deficiencies over the last couple of years that people just want to ignore. And I think Tom
Tellesco getting fired as the general manager. A big reason why is because the people there are recognizing it. You know, the span has to see it. They have some good pieces, They have some really high end talent. You know, Rashaun Slater is a really good tackle, but they they don't have a lot of depth to their roster. And and you saw that this year when they started to have some injuries on the offense side of the ball. You know, Mike Williams goes down, their offense falls, you know, falls
off a little bit. Austin Ecker doesn't have the same year because of injuries and things like that. Their offense takes another step back and they didn't really have any depth to supplement it. So I think some of the reason why Kellen Moore wasn't quite as successful with the Chargers isn't all on Kellen Moore. That's just my point.
But is he my top candidate, No, absolutely not. But he's somebody that I would definitely be interest said if I'm the Patriots and and hearing out and having an interview with and seeing seeing what his pitch is before I you know, make a higher Senior Bowl ready, Yeah, this is your moment, all right. So Senior Bowl preview will end it here, end of the show here, I'm going to go down to the Senior Bowl. Unfortunately I'm going solo Alex. I'm very upset about that still, but
it is what it is. So we'll be doing the show next week with me and Mobile and Alex will be here and you know, all these guys so well, anyway, Alex, I'll just tell you who's popping and who's standing out to me, and we'll go from there the next week. But I have a watch list. I'm sure you have a watch list. I want to start with the quarterbacks. Yeah, there's three guys that I know. You have a couple more, maybe going deeper than me, but three guys obviously, Well,
there's there's three big ones. I think Michael Pennix is obvious and obvious. Bo Nix is an obvious I am. I am I allowed to be intrigued by Michael.
Pratt from a Patriots point of view or just in general in general.
But also let me let me give you this pitch.
Well, look, I'm the guy that gets madd You don't let me talk about runningack se'n be intrigued about anybody.
Fair enough, let me give you this pitch about Michael Pratt.
Yeah, is there a chance?
And I hate to like type cast everybody, right, but your stereotype everybody should say, but is there a chance that Michael Pratt is like the Kirk cousins to an RG three?
Oh see, I think that's somebody else. I actually had the exact same take about somebody else.
Okay, I think.
Michael Pratt is more this draft's Bailey's abbey.
Oh really, that's disappointed.
Like I just see him as like I just see him as like a you know, I think he could be an NFL starter. I just don't see where the ceiling is. He's older, he doesn't have you know, that elite mobility, that elite arm talent. Like he's he's a good, solid, technically sound quarterback. I just don't know what I'm latching on to where it's like, hey, this guy is gonna be, you know, you know, a starter on his rookie contract, like a franchise starter on his rookie contract.
That's fair. I do wonder what he weighs in at and like what he means. Actually, so he's a little bit bigger than Bailey Zappy right.
Let me he is, let me rephrat He could be the Kirk Cousins in the sense that if you draft one quarterback and you want another guy, because Kirk Cousins drafted to be the backup, right, that would make a lot of sense because I think he has an ability to at the very least be a high level backup, if not a low level starter in the NFL.
I'm just intrigued by some of the things that I, you know, saw I don't have a ton of two lane all twenty two, I will admit, but I'm trying to get more and we'll see what the Senior Bowl. I think he throws a really good touch and accuracy, right, which is just at.
The end when he's when it's clean.
Yeah, yeah, sure, but at the end of the day that that still matters, you know, Like I feel like we're getting so lost in his quarterback discourse about arm talent and off platform and extended playoff script, moving you know, around and throwing like Patrick Mahomes, Like we're getting so into that that we're losing sight of the fact that the thing that matters the most still from quarterback play is can you sit in the pocket and can you
deliver on time with accuracy? And Michael Pratt I think can do that.
He's very good at that. My my thing with him is, and this is more for the Patriots than just in general, when that's not there, he doesn't really have an ability to create something from nothing. Yeah, And that's what I worry about with him.
Fair enough Big week, I think for Pennix.
Big week, huge week, huge week in a number of ways. I mean, he's gotta throw the ball well, kind of offset some of the you know, the tape from the National Championship. He'll probably get some medical testing done.
Talk to teams, yeah, talk to teams.
Just a big, big, big week for him.
I hope he practices at least one day, you know.
Yeah, I think he will. He probably has as much variance as any quarterback. Jenji mccartheen's. Yeah, he has as much variance as any quarterbacks at the Senior Bowl. Put it that way.
Yeah, So I think that he's He's definitely gonna be intriguing. What I'm looking for with him is it when we watch him, you see the ball kind of just really like, you know, pop out of his hand, right, He's got that like instant velocity out of his hand, which we all really like. I think that that's something that is really important to see in person, though, like I think you can barely see that tangibly in person, Like how much velocity, how much arm talent does he really have
on the football. We're not necessarily going to see him under pressure because he's gonna be in a red Jersey and he's not going to be facing pressure like that he was in the National Championship game. But you can see, you know, is the vlo legit? Like, is that ability to generate velocity with the ball coming out of his hand? Legit?
This is a game and a practice where other quarterbacks have really separated themselves, like Justin Herbert's like the biggest one I can remember over the last couple of years where he went to the Senior Bowl and he was just a dude and it was different than everybody else. His gravitas, his his talent, all of it, and then that locked him in as like a top ten pick.
I don't think Pennix is gonna get locked in as a top ten pick just because of the injuries, but he can lock himself in as like an end of the first round guy, or you know, wherever the league has him right now. Maybe we'll find out.
Some of that too, if anybody, though, I think Pratt is the guy that is. You know, the way these practices are structured, it's set up for him to shine. You want to talk about velocity and arm strength though, oh god, all right, get.
To my guy, okay, but really, really quickly before we do. Yeah, anything from Bonnicks, Like is Bonick's gonna do anything for you in this week? Like if I call in on Wednesday and then we're doing the show and I'm telling you, like Bonnix is just tearing up practice, Like does that move the needle at all for you?
You know, if he's really focusing vertically, if he's like really showing a vertical game, then I'll be all right because like we we know he can hit those you know, get to the back foot, get the ball out on those short and intermediate throws and put it right on a dine like that's been his game and you know seven on seven structuring kind of Uh, it's it's a
good setting for that. If he's testing windows, if he's splitting the ball in between zones down the field, if he's throwing jump balls down the field and he's hitting them, and it's like, all right, here's something he hasn't had. So yeah, I think he certainly has something to prove. But I think he's he's sixty one starts on his bell, Yeah, sixty one college starts. So if you don't know, then you know, if you don't know, by we I would
be surprised. This sounds kind of weird. I would be surprised if bo Nick surprises us, just because we have so much tape on him.
The only thing I would look at from bow Nicks. And I don't know how much I'm going to be able to like tangibly know this, but maybe just talking to some people down there, like what's he like? You know, like is he I think one thing about Mac and like we're film junkies. We're guys that watch the tape and really study these guys in terms of their football ability.
But I think it has been a factor around here, just personality, you know, his confidence and all that kind of like does does Bonix carry himself with some swagger? Like That's what I look.
It's very interesting Nicks's background, So his dad it's like an Auburn legend, yeah, playing quarterback, and then he grew up an Auburn fan. He went to Auburn and it didn't go well, and it wasn't entirely his fault, but he talked about after he left the pressure of being there and how miserable it was to like the pressure he put it because he wasn't he wasn't doing it for himself. He there's a there's a great piece for Marty Smith ESPN that like he was doing it for Auburn,
not for bo and then he goes to Oregon. You know at this so he was a five star recruit, son of a campus legend, starts a true freshman. He was supposed to revive the Auburn program. He was supposed to deliver Auburn a national championship. That was like his destiny essentially to for I don't mean to sounds so dramatic,
but he's kind of the chosen one. Yeah, flames out, he goes to undrafted, failed the school, has to transfer, goes to Oregon now there's no pressure, and tears it up, so, you know, and he again, if you watch this piece on ESPN, I'll send it to you so you can watch before you get down there, because I think it does painted, you know, a brief but good picture of who he is. I think he has a very good understanding of his standing and of his journey. And I
think he's willing to be changed by his journey. And I don't think that's something I don't think everybody in a position like his. Uh, you can say that.
About Bnix is a tough one for me because of the Auburn stuff. I can unsee it sometimes, you know, like I just part of the part of it. I know how bad he was at Auburn, very Jared stid of me, right, like just just not not consistent, not good enough.
All right. The thing is, I think if you, I think bo Nicks would also tell you that, which I think is part of what makes him a little different. Okay, not saying that means draft.
Him, but all right, tell us about Bazuka Joe.
All right, So Joe Milton is the most entertaining quarterback in this draft. That doesn't mean best.
Daniels.
Yeah, and he's six six, two thirty six. He can throw the ball sixty yards just with his top half. Now he sprays it. His accuracy is not great, and he's great as a scrambler. He's not great as a designed runner. But you talk about again, you can't. I'm excited for you to see him throw the football, and I'm sending you some clips last night. It doesn't really make sense. You watch some of his throws and you see his mechanics and then you see how far the
ball goes and there's nothing else like that. Now he's obviously got to learn to rein it in. But when you talk about arm strength, size, and mobility, he checks all the boxes that you usually look for in the first round. Yeah, but he's older, His accuracy isn't there. He doesn't make good decisions.
Other than that.
But here's the thing. Somebody's gonna somebody's gonna see him like early on day three and say I can get the most out of his kid. Yeah, somebody's gonna see him early on day three and just look at the potential. And I wonder if he's the guy that you draft a quarterback. And it's funny because I think just on skill set, on an ability, he's somewhere between Drake May and Jane Daniels. So you could draft either of those guys, take Joe Milton in the fourth or fifth round and
kind of develop them together. And where Joe Milton really interests me is almost as a package player. He can be or Hail Mary thrower. He'd be an excellent push push quarterback. He can do some things running the ball, Like you could put him in in spots and utilize him in spots where you could take advantage of the rare talents he has will maybe masking some of that other stuff. So I'm just really interested to see I wish I could could see him in person. He fascinates me.
And again I'm not saying draft them, I'm not saying make them the start, I'm not saying he's great, but just his entire makeup is so unique, right, I talk about this every year. That excuse me. There's a there's a lot of guys in the draft that you look at and they're really good, but there's a player that's good like that every year. There's only so many guys you look at every year where it's you've got to draft this guy now because you're not going to get
him next year. Joe Milton is one of those guys where you're not gonna find anybody else with his skill set. And that again, that doesn't mean it's perfect, that doesn't mean it's good. But just as somebody who likes the game of football and enjoys the pre draft process, he's a fascinating, fascinating, fascinating part of this.
All right, Well, you just went through a sickness, an illness to just go three minutes on Joe Milton. So that's how you know how good he is to you.
Or how nobody gets you interesting. Interesting.
I shouldn't say good, you're right how it's just going to be clear like he's interesting. Okay, let's let's talk about the tackles. So I think there's six tackles uh that are going to be in Mobile that are real considerations, uh for the Patriots of the top of the second round. So I'm gonna butcher some of these names because some of them are tough of Talisi Fugala from Oregon State.
Uh.
My guy who I really like a lot is Troy fott Neu from Washington, Jordan Morgan from Arizona, Tyler Guidon from Oklahoma, Kingsley Sumataia Sumataie.
I usually practice the names, but obviously I can't speak.
I'm very sorry. I'm very sorry to to these people's parents. I really am. And uh Patrick Paul from Houston. That one's easy. So I'm excited about this group. I you know, especially when you go to stuff like the Senior Bowl, seeing these guys against NFL guys, draftable NFL guys, and how they handle power, how they handle those types of one on ones. It's a really good snapshot for these guys. I mentioned fot New you know, he was the left tackle for Washington this past year and they won the
More Award. You know, they had one of the best offensive lines in football in college football. But I know there's a lot of love for Morgan, for Patrick Paul, for really all this group. But I think it would not just shock me in the least if the Patriots thirty fourth picking the draft is one of these.
Six guys, or if they move up if they like one of them. But this is I mean, we talk about this event is one of those things where you're sorting guys out and right now there's seven tackles projected to go into thirty pick range basically between called twenty and fifty. Of those seven, six will be at the Senior Bowl of Marius Mims from Georgia is the loan
one who won't. But yeah, you know, you could stack them in just about any order of these seven guys right now, and you could probably make a pretty compelling case for it. So there's a lot to like about all of them. They certainly all have their flaws as well. I think this is this especially with the offensive line position, like last year, we did this with the receivers of the Combine, and that's because a lot of the receivers
didn't go to the Senior Bowl. But we were like, remember there were those four guys, and it was okay, what order do they go in with the linemen? And an event like the Senior bowls much more valuable than an event like the Combine. So we're gonna kind of see, Okay, here's these again, men's will be there. Here's these six guys that are all projected to be within range of the Patriots. Who do you like better than who?
You know?
This is kind of a big week to decide that.
Yeah, I love these events for the one on ones, Like I think that that's such a big thing. It's just on an island, one on one pass pro against NFL draftable talent on the other side, Like how do you hold up? Because at the end of the day, that's the game now. Like as much as we can talk about run blocking and all that kind of stuff, if you can't pass protect, that's the item Number one. I remember Macro telling me last year at the Combine. Number one is pass protection, Like can you or can
you not pass protect? Like that's where we start with everybody, and I think that that's a big part of this. All right, quickly, there's just the.
Three guys I like there that stand out to me right now, and we'll see from Washington pros pro pros pro just like a ready made NFL tackle. I like Patrick Paul from Houston. I think he has among the better upside in the group, if that makes sense. Like, I think he's a guy that not says a project player, but you can maybe get a little more from with patients.
And then I also really like Jordan Morgan from Arizona and who knows where the jetfish connection is at at this point, but Mayo was on the staff with him. Maybe a guy they can get a little, yeah, at.
Least some intel out of that. Yeah, how did you say, Troy Fotnuanu?
Maybe sorry is coughing, I've I've been I've been saying Fatanu.
Okay, Well, well maybe checked that and mobile I'll figure out exactly how.
Usually when these guys talk to the media down there, the first question is can you say your name?
Yeah, those guys, he reminds me you said it. You know, pros pro a lot of reps, you know, like a lot of experience against top competition. I know the the Washington offensive line got exposed against Michigan, but I thought he actually had a pretty decent game himself, Like a lot of the pressure was coming off the right side. Their right tackle got destroyed in the National.
Gayeah he'll I think he'll actually be at the Swimble as well. He won Rose Garden. He uh, that was the guy I liked. I saw that game. He's got a lot of making up to do.
Okay really quickly because only have a couple more minutes here. The group of receivers in Mobile next week, it's so good, so there's no the top guys obviously aren't going, like Marvin Harrison Junior or the league neighbors, Romadonza, Kean Coleman, Brian Thomas, Troy Franklin like that. The guys that are going in the first round are not going to be there.
The Texas guys aren't there either.
Oh right, yeah, Texas guys too. But we do have Xavier l get Lad McConkie, Ted Walker, Johnny Wilson, mclai Corley, Ricky Parcel, Brandon Rice from USC, Roman Wilson from Michigan. I'm sure there's other guys that you like too that I didn't just name, But that's like eight guys that I just rat rattle off that are all going to be there. One of the most fun things about these events is, obviously I mentioned the one on once for
the lineman. That's more like you know nerds like me. Yeah, but the one on ones receivers versus corners, right like, that's always a like that. That's where you really get the popcorn out. And I think all of these guys have some really good route running skill that will could wow the crowd a little bit with some of their their route running.
Here, I'm gonna throw a bold take out right now, Levan, there are multiple future Pro Bowl receivers at the Senior Bowl wow or now Pro Bowl All Pro Wow. Well see, you don't seem that wowed by it. They sounded sarcastic.
No, that's a bold take, IM. I don't know if I agree, but it's a bold take.
You don't think there's multiple Pro Bowl receivers there?
There could be.
I think I think there is. We talked a little bitbouta get already. I like Tesz Walker, especially if you draft uh yeah, Drake May you compare the two kind of similar, you know, downfield, bigger receivers. I want to give you a couple of deeper guys, though, and you focus so much on the top guys. Uh. Ricky Piersoll from Florida. Yep, I'm super interested in him because you talk about a guy that plays the game ferociously.
Yeah, he's an aggressive player.
He's in a good way, oh, in a great way. Like I there's times where you talk about separating at the top of the route and you're talking about quickness. He separates physically and it's not offensive pass interference. He just muscles his way through guys. It's it's really fun to watch great catch radius. Jacob Cowing from Arizona's a really interesting player, kind of a slot guy. Luke McCaffrey from Rice, so Christian's brother, Yeah, is going to be there.
And then the one other guy I want you to watch evan is Jordan Whittington from Texas. I think he's the lowest rated prospect that'll be there, but he kind of got lost. He was the third receiver behind Ady Mitchell davy Worthy. But you talk about a guy that's just steady, You talk about a guy that's reliable. Like he's not the biggest, he's not the fastest, he's not
the strongest, but he's just always open. And look, obviously some of that was, you know with eighty Mitchell z av Worthy helped, but not a guy that drops a lot of passes, doesn't run sloppy routes. Like some team's gonna find him on day three and he's going to develop into a really good, complimentary receiver and I'm interested to see. I Look, he's not on the level of those other guys, but I do think he's being slept
on a little bit right now. I wonder if he comes away from this week or from Senior Bowl week with more of the recognition that he deserves.
Yeah, that's a that's a good list, and I'm excited. You know, I have I have an affinity for Roman Wilson.
I do.
I I feel like I see a lot of a mon ros Saint Brown in his game.
So I'm really interested to see than what you think of Peersaw, because I feel like Pierce All is a bigger version of Roman Wilson. Yeah, maybe more of an outside version too, but like, yeah, I just look.
At you know, ability to separate obviously ball you know Billy as a ball carrier, yack receiver, you know a lot of gadget not gadget, but like scheme touches, you know, jet sweeps and around slide routes, things like that that they would use him on as a lot of the different things that Detroit uses him on, Ross Saint Brown on. So I'm interested to see, but you know, a guy
like him, and then we really have to wrap. But a guy like him Roman Wilson, he's got to be like wowing you in one on once right, like, because he's he's not fit, he's not a big guy, so he's gonna have to be a route running technician type down in Mobile. So, like I said, I'll be down in Mobile and Alex and I will do a show on Wednesday afternoon, I think is the plan for me at the Senior Bowl. And I'll just throw a bunch of names at Alex and he'll tell me way more
about him than I know. But I hang on here and Alex said, thanks again, thanks again for playing hurt man.
Thanks for thanks for putting up with my voice. Everybody. Yeah, I'm hoping I'll be back full strength next week.
Absolutely and not. Peu's up next, so don't go anywhere.
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