Pastors' Perspective - 06/16/2025

You can also send in your questions online if you'd like. There's, uh, one way to do it is on, uh, Facebook Messenger, the Pastor's perspective Facebook Messenger, or you can DM us on the Pastor's perspective Instagram, or if you're watching on Facebook, YouTube, or Instagram right now, there's a QR code there on the bottom right. Well, my left, you're right. Uh, if you click on that. You, or if you scan that, I should say it'll take you right to the page where you can ask

your question. But the best way to get an answer is to call us at 888-564-6173. And sitting in the studio with me today is Char Broderson, the senior pastor of Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa in Southern California. How you doing, Char? I'm doing all right, Brian. Good. I'm, uh, we had a couple work days this last week, not, you know, just days where we're at work, but, you know, we're doing physical labor, we're getting rid of just some old.

Uh, furniture on our property and then we had a workday on our campus for volunteers, you know, in the church and we ripped out a bunch of bushes and just did all this manual labor. So I'm tired. I'm like feeling it, you know, I appreciate you coming in because, well, yeah, I mean, well, it is my job. So there was that part of it. But no, yeah, it's just been a A long weekend. So yeah, I'm looking forward to my next day off, which is not till Friday. Oh man, OK,

I'll make it. So easy questions only for Char today so that he doesn't have to, uh, slow pitches only. Yes, no Char can answer anything, so. Uh, you got a call though, because we can't read your mind. We don't know what you want to ask Char. 888-564-6173. Here's a question that was sent in online on Facebook. It's from Pam. Now, Pam sent this question in on Friday. This past Friday was when this whole thing started between Israel and Iran, uh, where Israel bombed Iran and then

Iran retaliated. So here's what Pam's question is, um, dear pastors, before I heard any news this morning, My devotions mentioned Micah 6:8. Parenthetically, I learned that verse years ago, early in my Christian walk through an old Maranatha music song. Since I heard the news about the bombings of Iran by Israel, my heart has been rejoicing. Pam says, am I in violation of that verse by loving the justice of this action over the mercy I should feel for those who lost their lives? I'm conflicted.

Can you please give me your perspective? Chart. Yeah, I mean, in, in the context of Micah 6:8, I mean, it, it's a question that the people of Israel are asking, like, what is God actually looking for among his people, you know, and right, the, the, what they think God is looking for is sacrifices, is offerings, and, you know, the, the prophet is making it clear. Actually what God is looking for is right living.

He's looking for justice and mercy and humility. And so the prophet, of course, is redirecting um God's people back to his heart. Get beyond the religious regulation and observances and actually get to the core of the matter, the heart of the issue. And I think that Pam, you're asking a really important question here because I think what we can tend to do, uh, any people living at any time and any place is that we can tend to make our nation's enemies.

Our enemies. And I think as followers of Jesus, uh, we are not allowed to see human beings as enemies, we are to see them as those who've been made in the image of God, those, uh, for whom Christ has died, uh, for those for whom salvation is to be brought to them, um, they're supposed to be recipients of God's grace. And I think Jesus is the one that redefines those things, or not just even redefines, because that, you know, would

mean that the definitions were unclear to begin with. But of course, Israel, as a nation in the Old Testament, had lost their way. We've been actually looking at this a lot um in our teachings on the gospel of Mark. The, the nation of Israel had really by the time of the first century become prejudiced and almost xenophobic or against the other nations because they saw them as a contaminant as those that were keeping them in exile and

keeping the judgment of God upon them. And so they sought through going back to Levitical kind of holiness to purify themselves so that God would, you know, send a Messiah and the kingdom of God would come. And so, You had all of this viewing of the nations, not just as, you know, separate and, you know, distinct, but actually as enemies.

And so, sometimes, you know, what Jesus is correcting in the Gospels is this view of those outsiders, this view of Gentiles as unclean, as vile, as a contaminant, and he's actually redefining them as, no, these are people whom God wants to reach. These are people whom God wants

to love. And so I think we really need to take our walking orders from Jesus, and yes, to um To love mercy, uh, to do justly, to walk humbly, is one way, I think that we can live out what Jesus taught in the sermon on the Mount, uh, to be meek, to be, uh, peacemakers, to be those who hunger and thirst for righteousness. Uh, we even think about the heart of God and

the Old Testament. Remember there's that passage where God says, I don't delight in the death of the wicked, but my desire is actually that they would turn and that they would change their ways. And so I think whenever we hear of, you know, people dying, even if it is a tyrant, I, I think I would just pause if my heart is rejoicing over the death of anyone. I, I might say, wow, OK, like there is justice that happens in this world.

But I think to rejoice is, you know, maybe a deeper issue of my own heart, you know, and I think Pam's kind of onto something like, uh, should my first instinct be mercy. Now, let me just say this. Usually our first instincts aren't the right instincts, and I think there's grace for that. And I think Jesus wants to transform us by his spirit, so that our first instincts, as we learn to walk in His ways, would be those that would be in step with his heart and in step with uh the

way of the Spirit. You know, of course, we can read about the way of the Spirit at the end of Galatians, right? It's love, joy, peace, kindness. Uh, patience, self-control, I'm missing a few there, but, you know, just the fruit of the spirit would be born in our lives, in our responses, um, to justices, injustices, sin and evil in the world that we would even respond.

Uh, in humility. Pam, thank you for sending in your question on Facebook, and Marlene also sent a question about Israel, and, uh, she did this by scanning on that QR code on Facebook, YouTube or Instagram, or you can go to Kwave.com and look for the pastor's perspective page, but Marlene. Writes, whenever there's conflict in Israel, Ezekiel 38 and 39 are always talked about. When do these events take place? Could they happen during the tribulation or the end of

the millennium? Yeah, it's a, it's a really good question. It's interesting. You know, I, I, sometimes I'm just really blown away by the way that the New Testament authors saw the prophetic visions of the Old Testament coming to pass. Um, and the reason I bring this up is because, uh, Ezekiel 38 and 39 is sandwiched between two, just incredible visions. One is in Ezekiel 37, a picture of the valley of dry bones.

And it's this, uh, kind of rebirth, regathering of the nation of Israel is what it seems to be, and that God is gonna breathe new life into them. There's gonna be this new work that happens. He's gonna, you know, bring Israel from all over the nations and, um, yeah, restore them. And then we have this passage in the middle about this great war that's gonna happen. And then what comes next is this vision of a temple in the last days, and this temple's gonna be

unlike the temple of the Old Testament. Remember the temple in the Old Testament, you had to do all of these ceremonial cleansing and washings to come into the temple, because if you were a contaminant, you would defile the temple. But we see this reverse thing happening here, where living water is coming from the temple, and instead, the temple is making everything it touches clean. Now, The pro or excuse me, the New Testament authors believed that this vision of the temple was fulfilled in and

through Jesus. This is what he's doing all throughout his ministry. Everywhere he goes, he is the incarnate presence of God. He's housing the living presence of God in his body, and every Where he goes, whoever he touches, he's not made unclean, they are made whole. They are given life and healing and salvation. And so the New Testament authors have seen that Jesus is actually this fulfillment of the latter-day temple.

And so I, I just bring all this up just to say, I think that this causes us to pause. And just kind of wonder about uh our biblical interpretation of passages. Where does this fit in our timeline and events?

You know, there would be some who would see, you know, maybe a more of a pre pre millennial view, they would see that there is this timeline, OK, Israel came back and as a nation, state now, and so now we're waiting for this great war and then, you know, the tribulation and these things, and so we're kind of looking at this timeline, but For me, just as a student of the Bible, looking at how Jesus fulfills so many of these Old Testament passages just gives me pause from um

Some of these eschatological views and timelines, if this really is what it is. So, That is a long way to say. I don't really know when this will happen, and I don't think anyone really does. It's really a guessing game and depends on your eschatological view. Marlene, thank you for sending in your question through the Kwave.com pastor's perspective page, and now we're gonna go to the phones. 888-564-6173 is our number, and, uh, we're gonna get two questions here for the price of one.

Uh, Cindy and her grandson Oliver are on the phone. Hi there. Welcome to Pastor's Perspective. Who wants to go first?

And so when we think about our life with God in God's kingdom, we need to picture the world in which we live in now, that is just filled with animals, that's filled with life and wonder and so much creativity and beauty, that God's kingdom is gonna look like that, but without any sorrow, without any pain, we won't have any fear. And so I believe that in God's kingdom, yeah, there

will be all kinds of pets. And actually, the Bible talks about how in God's kingdom, there will be lions there, there will be wolves, there will be snakes, there will be all these kind of animals, and they're gonna live together, and they're not gonna eat each other anymore, and even little children won't have to be afraid of poisonous snakes or of, you know, scavenging lions, but will actually be able to play with them.

And so sharks aren't specifically mentioned in the Bible, but these other animals are as being a part of God's new kingdom that we are invited to be a part of. Is that pretty exciting?

Ali, may you never lose that sense of wonder. I mean to just bite into a peach and go, man, God, this is awesome. How did you do this?

to find different ministries to give to. And the question that I have is, what do you think is a, uh, fair or godly amount that a ministry should pay their CEO? And then secondly, what do you think is a wise or godly amount that a ministry should spend on advertising?

Entertaining, and I don't mean like, you know, I just mean like being a good host, right? Making people feel comfortable and at home so that they can open up about the difficulties that they're going through so that we can care for them. And so, um, our church community here pays me, um, you know, to be able to do those things, to live in a way that is comfortable, to serve our community, to I think to be equipped

to do what I've been called to do. And so, I would say that I think it really, it needs that kind of discernment. What is the role, uh, what is this person being called to do? What are the kind of outliers that we're not considering that are going to be, you know, pain points, you know, um, are they able to rest? Are they able to have that kind of, um, you know, maybe they have vacation time, are they able to actually even take the vacation? Can

they afford it? These are things that I would want to consider for somebody in a role like that that's overseeing. Uh, so many people, like a CEO or something like that. And so, yeah, I just think that these are situations where we have to take those biblical principles of generosity, um, of care, you know, Jesus' principle, the golden rule, do unto others as you would have them do, uh, unto you.

I don't think that anybody, uh, should be paid such an extravagant amount, you know, it's just that, you know, the people under them are suffering. I think those are the most the things that we need to be considering in these. Instances, you know, what is just, what is equitable, um, somebody who leads, uh, should be leading in the caring for the community that they're overseeing. So they're, you know,

an example as well. So those would be things that I would consider, um, in setting a salary for somebody overseeing a ministry, CEO, um, and what have you. You bring up a very good point too. We have pastors who are maybe over a smaller congregation who maybe can't afford to pay them, so they've got to go work a regular 9 to 5 job during the week, plus they're putting sermons together for Sundays and they're meeting with people. What would you say about that? Yeah, I mean, there's a whole

Yeah, ministry is a lifestyle job, right? There's just so many um factors and, and, I mean, I, when I was in Santa Rosa pastoring for 15 years there, You know, there were seasoned. I literally wore every hat in our church, you know, leading worship, um, organizing and doing all the administration, um, payroll. I mean, you know, I do everything because I was literally the sole employee

of the church. So, in those years, I was not able to be compensated for what I was doing and yet, you know, this was uh the ministry that God had called me to and he provided for us in those areas. I want to come back to the second question, um, how much should An organization spend on advertising. I imagine that you're talking about a Christian organization, so I guess I'll speak to that.

Um I don't, I mean, I guess I would just ask like, yeah, what is the purpose of advertising for that organization, ministry, um, you know, there's been questions around the he gets us campaign, you know, and people criticizing like, man, think about how much money was spent on the, the Super Bowl and others are saying, well, you know, this is all this money is an attempt to get the gospel out and You know, people on this side and people on that

side disagreeing on these things, and I think at the end of the day, I. I think the most important part of an organization is the people, right? The people that work, uh, within the organization, and I think the quality of what you're gonna put out is determined to what you put into that organization. And one of our principles has been uh people first, and it's been that the people that, you know, are under us are really experiencing a culture of goodness.

And so, you know, any advertising or anything that we do for our church, and that's actually very minimal besides, you know, Google, Facebook, just search engines and things like that, K wave and You know, we're really trying to spend our money on caring for our people, taking care of our uh local needs, and we actually think that the the best uh advertising for the church is actually the life health of the church, right? It's the.

community itself that is going to be the best advertisement for Jesus and for his kingdom, just the way that we live, um, the way that we live with one another, the way that we care for one another, the way that we care for outsiders and our neighbors. So I think those would be the things that I would be more concerned about, uh, rather than the amounts.

With the he gets us campaign too, my thought was, OK, if you don't like the way this organization is spending all this money at the Super Bowl, just don't donate towards it. But there are other people who might think differently, and they think, yeah, it'll be great to have an ad on the Super Bowl, so I'm gonna donate towards it, but if you don't feel the same way, then just don't give. Yeah, yeah, I think, I don't know, we spent a lot of time criticizing.

Other Christians, rather than, you know, I think looking for those opportunities of where we really do agree and where we can just support or Yeah, just kind of mind our own business. Richard, thank you for your phone call today on Pastor's Perspective. 888-564-6173 is our number. We've got Pastor Char Broderson from Calvary Chapel, Costa Mesa here to answer your questions at 888-564-6173. Now let's go to Danny, who's watching us on Facebook in Covina. Welcome to Pastor's Perspective, Danny.

Hi, pastors, uh, this is sort of a follow up of a question I had a couple weeks ago. Um, After Moses, uh, in, uh, Exodus chapter 4, where God had just told Moses to, um, Go, go to Egypt. Tell Pharaoh to to uh release my people, and then later on next paragraph. God was coming to kill Moses because his son was uncircumcised.

Uh, I was wondering, when God initially instituted that with Abraham's circumcision, All God said So Abraham was If somebody doesn't get circumcised, they're cut off from the covenant, they're cut off from the people. Did God have two different standards, one standard for Abraham and one standard for Moses? Cause one, he said, you're just cut off, the other one, you pay for your life. Yeah.

Yeah, some have looked at the the actual term there that's used, and this is actually used all throughout the um mosaic law as well, this term of being cut off, that this is actually um another term for death or the death penalty. So it's probably more than just being, um, you know, Pushed out of the community of the redeemed. Uh, it's probably more serious than that, and I think we see that even here in this story with Moses. And the big issue here is that this is God's one.

Sign of covenant with his people. So if you have this, you're in, if you don't, you're out, and God is sending his spokesperson, his representative to lead his people out, and Moses has not even taken care of his own house. Those in his own house are not dedicated and in covenant with Yahweh at this point. And so this is why this, you know, The seriousness of this situation here. Does that help you, Danny? He was, he was brought up as, uh, an Egyptian. So, does God curse ignorance?

No, so, uh, even though Moses is brought up as an Egyptian, you know, we know, um, specifically from, remember Stephen's speech in Act 7? I mean, it clearly shows us Moses is not ignorant concerning the things of God. He is actually well versed, and he understands at 40 years old, that it's time for him to join the people of God, and he is somehow supposed to play a part in rescuing them and bringing them out of slavery. Now, of course, he takes matters into his own hands, we know the story.

But Israel, I mean, excuse me, Moses, yet he is informed. He's most likely taught in these things and also taught in all the wisdom of the Egyptians. So I do, I do not believe that we should see Moses as being somebody who is ignorant. I mean, And again, you know, we know from God's own self-revelation. God's gracious, compassionate, slow to anger, abounding and steadfast love, God has mercy on ignorance, right? That's not the kind

of being that we're dealing with. And so these stories that are recorded here when God is, you know, making a big deal of these things, we need to focus in on the why, right? God isn't just saying, hey, you're ignorant and now you're gonna punish for be punished for it. Uh, God is taking Moses to task because he knew that his household should be dedicated to the Lord. OK, Danny? Yeah, it was just that a lot of people were punished even before the law was written.

Breaking items that were part of the law later on, like, uh, thou shalt not kill. It wasn't in The law, but Cain did it. He killed somebody and he was punished. Was was he punished for it? Uh, he was Exiled from the rest of the people, yeah, but he's not punished according to the Mosaic law, because the punishment according to the Mosaic law is death, and so God actually has mercy on him and puts a mark of protection on Cain. Oh yes, that's true, yes, yes.

Yeah, you know, it's a great, um, Danny, a great book uh written by Oh, I'm gonna blink on the name all of a sudden, but uh the book is called Echoes of Exodus. And it's very insightful showing how the Bible's actually telling uh the exodus story again and again and again, that the authors of the Bible um are continually kind of taking this as the great story of the Bible, and they kind of use this as a theme again and again.

And so you can actually see in Um, even early in the exodus, before the actual exodus happens, that there are these things that Moses is doing, that are actually Um, predicting, as it were, the exodus. So, Moses actually goes through his own series of exoduses before he will bring the people out in the capital E Exodus. It's a really helpful book, I think for understanding some of these stories and patterns that we see within the Old Testament. So just recommended uh reading if you

Like a follow up. Sounds like a good one. Echoes of Exodus tracing themes of redemption through Scripture. It's by Alastair Roberts. Might want to check that out wherever you get your books. All right, uh, Danny, thank you for your phone call today on Pastor's Perspective. 888-564-6173 is the number to call. The music's gonna start any second now, so I won't take another question or read something else from Facebook that was sent in. Because we're gonna go to break, but we welcome you

to call in. We're gonna be here for the next half hour answering questions you might have about the Bible, the Christian faith. You've heard some of the questions we've had so far, everything from, uh, peaches to sharks to circumcision. We talk about it all here on Bastard's perspective, apparently, yes. 888-564-6173 is the number. And, uh, we've got Char Broderson, the lead pastor at

Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa here to answer your questions. Don't forget you can catch up on Char's Sunday morning messages in case you weren't at church here yesterday or weren't able to listen on the radio. They're all archived on the Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa website, CCCM.com. Your phone calls coming up at 888-564-6173. Hey, welcome back to Pastor's Perspective. I'm Brian Perez here with Char Broderson, the lead pastor at Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa, 888-564-6173.

That's the number to call for the next 25 minutes or so. You can also send in your questions online, but we so like to talk to you. So call 888-564-6173. That's what Kevin did from Temecula. He's on the phone with us now. What is your question for Char Broderson, Kevin? Hello, hello. Um, yeah, uh, my question was, um, what's the, uh, um, biblical perspective of, um, the deportation of undocumented migrants? Sure.

Yeah, I mean, There is, I mean, strictly, there is no biblical perspective on this, right? Like, um. You know, we see like in the New Testament, right, the the, I think one example would be the Roman Empire, right? There's a census that's given that all the world should be taxed, we're told by Luke. And so, the Jews are subject to the rule of Caesar, and so they fall in line, and they go to the cities where they were born and they register so that taxation can happen.

They didn't like it, but this was the law of the land, and so, you know, they do what's required. Um, I think, you know, when I'm kind of looking at what's going on right now, I think right, our, our nation and the laws that we make, we have the rights, uh, as a nation state to, you know, create immigration laws and then to, um, enforce those. I think the deeper issue that we should be concerned about is the way in which they are being done, and are they being done in a way that is inhumane?

Um, and destructive and actually creating more chaos, more fear, uh, in our state. Is this actually making us better as human beings? Is this actually making us worse and more animalistic? And I mean, I've seen some footage that just is heartbreaking in the way that human beings are being treated, the way that they're being ripped away from their families. And to me, I think, man, there's got to be a better way. Uh, in the way that our government is going about this.

And I think whatever side, you know, you're on and the issue and whether it should be done or shouldn't be done, I think as followers of Jesus, we could all say this can and should be done better in a way that is humanizing in a way that is caring for these individuals. So, I think that would be the closest I could come to a biblical perspective on these things. What do you think Kevin? Yeah, I think that's great. Yeah, I uh I agree with that and um. Um, yeah, you know.

Only, uh, only Jesus, the king of kings, he can make things right. Yeah, I mean, ultimately, I think that's true. I think also, you know, human beings, God expects human beings to do what is right, to do what is just and when we don't, there are, you know, not just consequences to those things, but oftentimes too, you know, for nation states, there is judgment that comes from God and so.

You know, think about like the, the kings of Israel and even what God, you know, prophesized through the prophets about the surrounding nations and the injustices that they do and perform. God actually holds them to account. And so, yes, 100%, we are waiting for the kingdom of God to come, and yet I do think there is a prophetic voice that the church can play in calling our leaders to do what is right.

Kevin, thank you for calling us today on Pastor's Perspective. Robin, you're next, but first I want to read a question that was sent in online. It's from Cathy. And here's Cathy's question. I was listening to your program from May 21st about some fella's gay family, says Cathy. My question is, why do you question the salvation of LGBT people if they haven't repented from that sin?

But never question the obese person who continues the sin of gluttony or the many couples that have divorced because of irreconcilable differences and gone on to remarry but are never confronted by their sin of adultery. Don't you believe what the Bible says about divorce only when there is sexual infidelity or or abandonment, Full stop. Are they really Christians if they don't repent from their adultery, divorce their current spouse, and live the rest of their lives in celibacy?

That's what you expect gays to do to, quote unquote, show they are repentant. I grow weary of the hypocrisy and the lame answers I get when I ask this question. I hope you can do better. No pressure. LOL, Cathy, Char, what do you say to Cathy? Well, yeah, I mean, I wasn't here on Wednesday, um, I'm not really sure what the question was or the issue was, but yeah, I mean, I'll just say, I do think that the church, um, For some time has really heavily focused on uh sexual sin.

Uh, specifically, you know, targeting the LGBT community, the way Cathy pointed out. To the neglect of talking about other sins, other ways, you know, that um You know, God would say, this is not what I actually mean for humanity. This will not lead to your flourishing and your thriving, right? We believe that God's instruction is for our good, for our benefit, and I think as followers of Jesus, we want to look at anything, um, any kind of lifestyle that is destructive to human flourishing, um,

as something that we should turn from. That's what the word repent means. Um. And I, you know, would say I try to be consistent with that in my preaching and in my pastoring, but I think at the same time, there is just a reality that we live in a broken world, and people need lots of grace and lots of time because change is really difficult, even by the power of the Holy Spirit at work in us, you know, to actually change our Behavior, uh, to begin to do the things instinctually that

the spirit desires in our lives takes time, right? And so, you know, we come to Jesus and we've got lives that are just full of confusion, uh, sometimes just full of sin, and thank God, Jesus accepts us as we are. And he doesn't say, full stop, that's it, you know, you gotta turn away from all this, or you cannot be a part of my kingdom, but he says, come

and follow me. That's what he says. You think about, you know, We're all gonna have to turn from certain things that we are trusting in, relying on, addicted to, in order to follow Jesus. And those will be different in my life than in your life, Brian, or different in Cathy's

life or this individual. But the real, you know, rub of it is, Jesus calls us to follow him, and he's the one that tells us what doesn't fit that discipleship, you know, and so I think You know, as followers of Jesus, we need to be

very clear about that. We need to just come back to Jesus and his standard of living, his standard of righteousness, his standard of goodness, his standard of purity as our standard of living, and then apply that to one another with grace, not saying like, hey, this is the bar, and if you don't measure up, you're out, but just saying, hey, we are all striving for this kind of life in Jesus, let's walk together. Cathy, thank you for sending in your question through the

Kwave.com pastor's perspective page. And now let's go to Robin in Murrieta, as promised. Robin is listening on the Kwave app, and she called in 888-564-6173. How can we help you, Robin? Um, hi, thank you for taking my call. Yeah, you bet. How can we help you? Well, I, I have a question that um I was thinking about as I was reading um the Bible, and um my question is, is that when um the Lord told uh Adam and Eve.

That they could eat from anything in the garden, but except for the tree in the middle of the garden and not to eat the fruit, otherwise they would surely die. My question is, and I just want your perspective on how, how did they Or did they know, uh, understand what death meant to die meant, um, did they, did they understand, um, what that would mean? Um, just, it's just something I, I thought about, um, and wanted to get your Perspective on that. Yeah, I mean, it's a great question too, right?

Because yeah, if sin has not yet entered the world and, you know, from our understanding, no death has occurred yet. I mean, like, what does that even mean, right? Dying? What are you talking about? I think first and foremost, we're going to, um, as those right who believe the God of the Bible is gracious and compassionate, slow to anger, abounding and steadfast love that he, you know, he's a God of mercy, he's a God that You know, humbles himself to our level to communicate with us,

you know, like, this is an incredible being. We're gonna give God the benefit of the doubt, that he's not just speaking over Adam and Eve's head. And they're like, oh we didn't know. Like, what's this whole death thing? I think what they do know, they do understand the offer on hand. And the offer is from God. God is inviting Adam and Eve to learn. Wisdom The discerning of good and evil from him. And not to short circuit the process and take it from this tree.

So basically they have, you know, kind of like what we read in um Psalm 1, right? Psalm 1 and Psalm 2. We have in Psalm one, the way of the righteous who meditates on God's law, and through that meditation, they become somebody who is just so grounded that all the various seasons of life basically bring no lasting effect on them. They're rooted and bear fruit in every season. And in Psalm 2, you have a different kind of meditation.

Where there are certain people who are, same word that's used, meditating on how to overthrow God in His kingdom, how to do it their own way, Frank Sinatra style, right? Um, and so this is what wisdom literature does, is it presents two paths before us, a path of wisdom and a path of folly. And I think what we need to see right here in the pages of Genesis chapter 2, is that these two ways are presented before Adam and Eve. There is the way of Yahweh.

To rule with him, to um have dominion over, you know, the beasts of the field, the birds of the sky, the birds of the sea, to take the borders of the garden and to spread it to the ends of the earth, be fruitful and multiply, subdue the earth. This is what God is inviting them to do. And then there is this other option before them. Instead, they can choose the tree of knowledge, both good and evil, and like the serpent suggests to them, you can be

like God. You don't need this process, you don't need this apprenticeship. God is withholding from you and keeping you from this, and so they short circuit the process and take from the tree, eat of it, and then, you know, the ensuing consequences. So, I bring all that up because I think Adam and Eve knew clearly what God was asking of them. Right, Adam willfully transgressed, where Eve was deceived, you know,

we're told. And so whether or not they fully understood, I mean, you know, just as you're asking the question, I don't fully understand the concept of death. That I will take a final breath or something, right? You know what happened, and I will cease to exist as I do now, that does not compute for me. I've seen it happen to others, and still it's beyond my understanding that this person's gone. So I, you know, like you're saying, I mean, just imagine being in their shoes.

I don't think they fully understood even as we don't fully understand as living beings currently, but I think they did understand what God was instructing them to do and not to do. And so God holds them responsible for that and also God follows them and all the consequences of that, you know, they're banned from the garden and then God follows them out of the garden and promises them redemption and salvation.

I mean, it's incredible, God's grace, that even though, you know, humanity sinned against him, he didn't give up on humanity. What do you think, Robin? Yeah, no, that makes sense and that that. That helps a lot. Um, you know, I, I think that, uh, even though they didn't understand exactly what that meant, um, they knew that Uh, it was a consequence that they, they, they wouldn't want to have, um, even though, you know, I mean. I suppose like, like we all deal with every day.

But yeah, so that, no, that helps. I, I just, I was thinking about it and I was kind of intrigued by the thought of, you know, I wonder what they were thinking. Yeah, for sure. All right, well, thank you for your phone call today here on Pastor's Perspective. 888-564-6173 is our number. You've got a few minutes left to call us here and ask Char Broderson your question. Here is Jose in Colton. You are up next. How can we help you, Jose?

Yeah, how you doing, man? I, I listened to you guys on the, on the application K wave, and, uh, my question was, uh, you know. Uh, according to Romans 81, we no longer have to be condemned because the Bible says we're in Christ, right? Yeah. And then, uh, you know, we can never lose our salvation as long as we abide in Christ. Yep, that's right. That is not that God says that he hasn't appointed us on to rest, but onto salvation, you know. Yeah, through Jesus Christ, that's right.

Yes, and, uh, you know, I was just wondering, uh, you know, you know what's uh, you don't, I don't necessarily have to be uh in the ministry or be a pastor, just, uh, a spiritual household man of uh. All the family, you know, and it's hard because all my family is Catholic, you know, and I came also from the Catholic family. I did the whole enchilada confirmation and communion and but I never learned nothing, you know, until I, until the spirit of God, you know, called

me and found me, you know. Yeah OK. Because I was looking for him and uh I did attend West Covina Calvary Chapel and uh went to Bible school for pastoral epistles and uh church history and eschatology things to come. And uh from my own personal that you use so I can give an answer to every event for the hope that is in me, you know. Mhm. So what did you want to know today though? What's your question for us? Just to be an example to

them or what? Yeah, I think the, you know, I like what you said earlier, Jose, because I think sometimes we can. You know, kind of wonder like, what does God want from me, you know, and I think sometimes we can confuse um like God, like specific call that he wants for all Christians, and then what does that look like for my life personally? And sometimes we're looking at the Bible to give us just kind of the personal details of it, but you

won't find that in the Bible. But what you will find is that there's a roadmap for what it means to be a disciple of Jesus, and that applies to every single Christian. This is what God wants. God wants you and I to follow Jesus. He wants us to be with Jesus, it means we spend time in his word, we study the life of Jesus. You know, we're just kind of taking it in again and again and again. I think we need to immerse our lives in the story of the gospels.

We need to become like Jesus. We have to practice Jesus's way of thinking, his way of living, his way of kindness and forgiveness, and love, and sacrifice. We need to practice those things, and then we need to do what Jesus did, and that is the plan for every single human, you know, every single Christian follow Jesus, that's what God wants for us to practice the life of Jesus. Now, the details of that, like,

Are you supposed to do that as a mechanic? Are you supposed to do that as a pastor or as a deacon, or as a school teacher, as a professor, a doctor, I think you just have to look at your own life and the opportunities that God has given you, and not one of those vocations is better than another. These are all ways that we are invited to live out our discipleship to Jesus, right? Because people need to see and experience the life of Jesus.

In all of these areas of life. And God has created human, you know, creativity and the ability to make culture, and we're to enter into culture and to redeem it the way that, you know, God intended it to be, to bring his love and forgiveness and his mercy to

these places. And so I think for your life, what God wants for you is To be a disciple of Jesus, and that your discipleship to Jesus would just be an example to your family, you know, whether they are Catholic or, you know, they're evangelical, whatever that is, that, you know, I think for some people who have grown up in the Roman Catholic Church, you know, it's not that they, um, it's it's not that Catholicism is false. I think that Catholicism has become such a system.

That just the simplicity of Jesus and discipleship to Jesus can get lost, and that can get lost in any system. That can get lost in evangelicalism, right? That can get lost as a Presbyterian or Orthodox, right? And so I think for anybody who is part of the Christian faith, we need to remember Jesus' original call is to follow him and be his disciple. That's what he desires for our lives. Jose, thank you for your phone call on Pastor's perspective.

Vinny and Hemet, you're next. How can we help you today? Uh, should I turn off my radio, please. It's the only time you have permission to turn off your radio. Go ahead. What's your question, Vinny? OK, um. Yeah, I just, I just wanted to um. Can, can you hear me? Yes, yes, but we're running out of time. Please get to your question. OK, we're

having trouble there. I don't think you turned off your radio, but it looks like Vinny is wondering what Bible versus, he thinks you're doing a good job on the question of immigration, which we had earlier on the program. He's wondering what Bible verses speak to the subject.

Yeah, I mean, as I mentioned earlier, I don't think they're, you're not gonna, with the Bible, many times we are kind of looking for a chapter and verse for current events, you know, for our current politics, and I don't, we're not gonna find that. The Bible is not this answer book to all of our questions or all of Our quandaries, but what we will find is we will find a roadmap for what God desires for our life

as followers of Jesus. We will find God's story of salvation, you know, as um the gospel say, we will find the words of eternal life, words by which we can be saved and redeemed. That's what we find in the scripture. And then we find uh A standard of righteousness, of justice, of how to live as human beings, life as God intended it. And so I think whenever we're looking at some of these cultural issues, political issues, as followers of Jesus, we need to bring

those principles to bear on these things. Is this policy, something that we as Christians, followers of Jesus, the one who is all about mercy, justice, forgiveness, kindness, generosity, Can we get on board with this? Or do we have to protest and speak up for those who do not have voice? Do we need to uh speak prophetically to these situations about righteousness, justice, about what is right,

what is good, what uh makes for human flourishing. And so, again, you won't find a, a scripture in verse that speaks about Immigration, and if you do, be careful because somebody is doing some crazy gymnastics to find that some kind of, you know, specific application for the current situation from the scripture, but we do need to live by the principles that Jesus laid out for us through his life. Vinny, thanks for your phone call. Sorry that we couldn't actually speak

with you, but we hope that answers your question. Now, let's go to Annette, who is in Moreno Valley via Dana Point. What does that mean, Annette? Well, uh, that just means that I'm driving with my family and we're taking our twin, uh, grandsons to Dana Point. Oh, nice, very nice. Moreno Valley. OK. So how can we help you today?

Well, um, my question is, uh, in reference to Luke, uh, chapter 21 verse 24, uh, about the, uh, the, uh, the Gentiles, and so what does it mean, the, uh, time of the Gentiles, what does that mean? Yeah, that's a great question. I mean, so the, yeah, the first part of this, right? I mean, Jesus tells us this is about the

Destruction of the temple. This is about the scattering of the people of Israel, and we know that this happened in 18,070 under um Under Titus, right, the temple being destroyed in Jerusalem, and so the people are gonna be, you know, slain, they're gonna be scattered, they're gonna be taking prisoners to all nations, and then Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the time of the Gentiles are fulfilled. So, yeah, this term, um, You mean some would say that this is kind of

the age that we are living in now. The time of the Gentiles, some would interpret as this is the

time where the gospel is going to the Gentiles. Other would see this as more of a negative thing, that this is the time where, you know, the nations are ruling over the land specifically of Israel, but then there's gonna a time where that's going to be overturned and the land would be handed back to Israel and some would see kind of the end of the Gentiles, um, the time of the Gentiles would be, you know, um in the late 40s when Israel became a nation again, and

so that that time has ended now. Um, so yeah, there's kind of a few different opinions on it. I take um The former view of this, that this is a reference to the time where the gospel is going to go to the nations, and that's what Jesus is talking about. And so there is a kind of um no longer a focus on Israel after their rejection of Messiah, but now the gospel goes also, doesn't stop going to Israel, but now primarily goes to the Gentiles. Does this help you on that?

Uh, yes, it does. It helps me a lot. Thank you so much. Well, we thank you for calling in today to Pastor's perspective, and we are just about out of time. Thank you so much for joining us today. Thanks for listening on the radio or on a podcast. You can get it on Apple Podcasts or on iTunes. If you were watching today on Facebook, YouTube or Instagram, thank you so much. Remember that we also archive on Facebook and You.

If you missed any portion of this or just want to hear it again or want to share it with your friends. And on YouTube, make sure you like and subscribe and click that little bell icon. You'll get notified every time we do something live, which for sure is every Monday through Friday at 3 p.m. Pacific time. God bless you guys for Char Broderson, the lead pastor of Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa. I'm Brian Perez, and we will talk to you tomorrow on Pastor's Perspective.