Pastors' Perspective - 06/11/2025

answer is to call us at 888-564-6173. And here to answer your questions today, we've got Pastor Brian Broderson from Calvary Chapel, Costa Mesa, author and apologist Doctor Bobby Conway from Image Church in Charlotte, North Carolina. And we've got a biola buddy here with us today. We'll just call them biola buddies from now on. I like that name. That's a good title for us. It's Dave Keen from Biola University who has been on with us before and he has he is back. Welcome back, Dave. Oh,

it's good to be here. I glad I could join you again. Yeah, you know what Viola buddy just put it like in my, my mind like little Lego kind of guys, you know that. Well, we are, we are very uh stackable, I guess, you know, they just kind of show us in these offices and have us teach classes and wind us up and we just go. Yeah, I think we're gonna maybe maybe Bobby could do an artistic rendition of the biola buddies. There you go. Let's do it, Bobby. And of course

the biola song is Everything is awesome, right? That's like the When the sports teams play and everything, yeah, our football team has never lost, so we just hear that all the time because Ed Stetzer leads you guys all and everything is awesome. Anyway, uh, Dave is the professor and chair of Christian Ministries at the Talbot School of Theology at Byola University, and he is joining us today here on Pastor's Perspective. So you're ready to answer some questions, Dave and Brian and Bobby?

Yeah, yeah, leave all the, the tough ones for Dave though cause you know he came right from the. He came right from the classroom. So we're off for the summer, so my brain has to re-engage now. That's the best part of it being a prop. You get the summer off. We do. Well, good for you. That's what a concept. So, here's a question that'll definitely get you thinking. It's from Guy who sent this in. Uh, basically, he says, I believe, Lord, help my unbelief. And Guy says, I'm

having trouble believing in the resurrection. Dave, what would you say to Guy? As Paul said, the resurrection is foundational to our faith. If we, if Christ had not been a rose from the dead, then we are most be pitied of all because our faith would not have any eternal benefits. So, this isn't a small question. Um, it really is one that you should lean into that you could have that assurance. It is, it is the hope that, um, that we

hold on to. And so I, I think I would Encourage, um, all of us to, to go back to what the eyewitnesses, uh, kind of recounted and how the early church formed, uh, around the creed that looked at Christ died, was buried and a rose again, and how he appeared to, to many eyewitnesses who at that time were still alive when the church founded. And so, uh, standing upon their shoulders, standing upon the fact that the But the Jewish leaders didn't produce a body when, when

the rumors of his resurrection, uh, happened. I think you kind of see both sides that A, the The Church had seen the risen Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, and the world couldn't answer. They couldn't take him to the tomb and show him the body's still there. They, they had nothing to answer it with. So I believe that as you hold on to, uh, those types of arguments, I think you could have a great assurance that our faith is not futile. Brian, any thoughts from you?

Yeah, that, that was, that was great, you know, it's interesting because

Actually, there is so much evidence for the resurrection. It, it, I mean, OK, I, I've, I've heard people say it's hard for me to believe in the resurrection, but, um, when a, when a Christian says, I'm struggling with my faith and and what I'm struggling with is the resurrection, I think, well, hey, there is so much great, great information out there that you can do um a great deep dive into the historicity of the resurrection and and walk away.

Uh, I think with absolute confidence in the fact that Jesus died. Um, one of the things, and Dave kind of alluded to it there is it's hard to explain the apostles, uh, Post, uh, Jesus' resurrection and ascension if he didn't rise from the dead, because when Jesus was crucified, you remember they were all scattered. They were fearful, they were, you know, trying to stay out of um The, the sights of of the Romans. They thought that they might.

Be the next people to be taken and crucified. And so that was their, that was their disposition initially, but then all of a sudden they burst onto the scene with this amazing boldness and this fearlessness and this proclamation that, um, you know, talking to the very people that were responsible for the death of Jesus, and who could have then uh made their execution possible. They said, hey, you, you took, uh, God's Messiah, you crucified him, uh, you slew him, but God raised him

from the dead, and we are His witnesses. So the, the apostles themselves, um, are a, a powerful testimony to the resurrection of Jesus. Um, you know, I, I wrote that small book a while back on the uniqueness of Jesus, um, no like or equal, and I've, I've got some pretty Quite a few pages on the topic of the resurrection in there and we'd be happy to get that to Guy if he, if he needed that. And of course, Bobby, you, in your recent book, you, you had a whole Chapter on the resurrection.

Yeah, I mean, I think that there's a, a lot that we can talk about here. I mean, you can just consider what Gary Habermass is in the process of doing with this multiple tome that he's writing on the resurrection. I think by the time he's done with it, he'll have written more scholarly, uh, research on the topic. I think one of the greatest arguments for the resurrection.

Is the arguments against the resurrection. So when people come up with different objections, like, you know, the stolen body, uh, you know, if the disciples stole it, then, you know, why would they die if the non-believers stole it when the disciples claimed he's alive, they would have presented it, uh, you know, the twin brother hoax, which is a silly one.

Uh, the hallucination theory. There's just objections. It would take more faith for me to believe in any one of those objections than it would to just trust in the evidence of the resurrection. And I love it because Paul writes, it's the linchpin of Christianity. It's what transformed his life. How do you explain a person walking with letters in hand to arrest Christians, who the Christians whom he's already persecuted. Uh, apart from the resurrection, how do you explain the

origin of the local church apart from the resurrection? Uh, no one, no one has ever, you know, brought his body to bear. And then you even think about some of the evidence, even of the shroud of turn and what that's producing, just showing the fact that he did die, uh, indeed, uh, which is powerful. So there's just so much stuff to talk about, it's a wonderful topic and I think that if you're having a hard time believing in the evidence, well then just consider the objections.

Because they're so bad, uh, that when I was in my dark night of the soul, I found myself trying to think if I was to walk away from Christianity, I've got to explain away the resurrection, and I couldn't Do that. I, I cannot explain the resurrection away and then because of the resurrection, that just helps everything else. If Jesus rose, then he really did die, and if he really did die, he really did live, and when he really did live, he validated the Old Testament.

And he said that there's more truth to come, so I trust that just as he validated the Old Testament, his first coming, he'll validate the process of the new and his second coming, and so you can go back and forward and all of that right out of the resurrection, because all of our objections don't matter about the Old Testament. If Jesus rose in the grave and he believed it, then that's good enough for me, Dave.

I would just hope that whenever we have questions that we wouldn't just Be passive and say, well, I don't know, and so I'm gonna stall my faith journey. I really would hope that as James talks about, as you have questions, seek answers, be willing to do deeper reading. You know, there's quite a few books that have already been discussed here, um, that you can read. I know a good friend of mine, Sean McDowell wrote a book on evidence for the resurrection

with his dad, Josh McDowell. There's, there's a lot of writing about this topic that will give you truth to hold on to. So in my mind, is this really just a question that someone is throwing up to say, I don't know if I should be following Jesus, or, you know, how, how can you find Enough of the answer to help you have a, a faith that is certain like Luke was talking about, you know, that we would know the certainty of the things we believe versus, well, we can't know cause we can't go

back there, so I'm not gonna make a decision. I think that's a a faulty way of of pursuing Christ is to say, I can't know, so I'm not gonna seek it out. I, I just hope that guy would, would say, OK, I want to know more, and I, and do the hard work of finding out that truth. Yeah, I, I think one other thing we could, we could say and what, um, what's the, who, who was

it that asked the question? Uh, his name is Guy, Guy, Guy, yeah, yeah, Guy, I, I would say to just, you know, think a little more deeply about this question, like, if Jesus didn't rise from the dead, how do we even know anything about him today?

Um, I mean, you know, like this would be the greatest hoax perpetrated on humanity in in all of history, um, because if you, if you think about and, and Josh McDowell, uh, years ago did this in his book and he sort of borrowed it from CS Lewis, but if you think about the claims of Jesus, and um, You know, as, as Lewis kind of articulated it, that Jesus was either um a liar or a lunatic, or

he actually was the Lord. And if you, you stop and think about that, you think, well, OK, um, doesn't seem like Jesus was a was a liar, but if he didn't rise, he obviously was cause he was making up all kinds of fantastical things that were not reality. Uh, and that would kind of push you over into maybe uh. kind of a lunatic state, you know, if you're just walking around saying like you're the son of God and

stuff like that. Um, but the evidence, you know, is, is that he he really is the Lord and, and I think if you think of the time, if you think of the fact that multitudes of people were crucified, uh, by the Romans at the time, many Jews were crucified. Why, how, how is it that we, we actually believe in a in a Jewish carpenter who was crucified. That we believe he's the savior of the world if he didn't rise from the dead, it makes zero sense. We, we,

we wouldn't obviously we wouldn't have this radio program. We wouldn't have this church. We wouldn't have this life, not have. I mean, it's like Jesus would have come and gone in history like millions of other, uh, people that the Romans crucified, and who would have ever known his name or why, you know, we would. So the fact that we do it's just pretty good evidence, I think Bobby.

Yeah, and then, you know, there are those that would maybe try to add on to the trilemma with legend, liar lord lunatic legend, so you have like the Jesus mythicist who don't even believe that, you know, he historically existed, and so that it uh is soundly refuted, people like Richard Carrier, it, it doesn't hold a lot of stock. I mean, there's just too much evidence that even, uh, you know, the, the

The, the majority of non-believing scholars recognize that he existed. Uh, I think maybe the hard point is uh getting to which Jesus, and that's why we have to stick with the biblical accounts, which are our best accounts, uh, because you do have a lot of merging in the first centuries, whether it's the Ibnites or the Doitists or the Aryans or the Gnostics, uh, these

Different types of versions that began to swell up. And, and this is where Christian apologists always had their task before them to make sure that they were prepared to give a defense, but they were using scriptures, and I think that, you know, you take like the Aryans who believe he's the first creative being or whatever, like, as you said, Brian, I mean, he was And um if he was not Lord, uh, uh, then he would have been deemed crazy. I mean, he's walking

around telling people that their sins are forgiven. He's claiming to be one with the Father, uh, he's referring to himself as the son of man. He's using the seven I am statements in the Gospel of John. Uh, there's just so much and what's so beautiful about Jesus, it's like the, the picture. Uh, that you just stare at and you constantly see

more details and you'll never exhaust it. Uh, like picking up a photograph and staring at it, if, if, if you did that for a while, you'll notice many more details, uh, but you'll never get to the end of the detail of Jesus. Uh, uh, Guy, thank you for sending in your question through Kwave.com, and we are going to send you a copy of Pastor Brian's book, which is available for purchase on his website, Back to Basradio.com. That book is titled No Like or Equal The Uniqueness of Jesus. Check that

out at back to Basicsradio.com. 888-564-6173 is our number, and we now go to Margot in Rancho Cucamonga. Welcome, Margo to Pastor's Perspective. Thank you. Um, my question is, uh, regarding, uh, the human, uh, we are Homo sapiens, and I was reading in the Smithsonian, uh, uh, uh, magazine about the Neanderthals and the Denisovans. These are uh Different species. So where does that fit in the creation story?

These are supposedly over 200,000 years old, and they have unearthed the uh the bones and the skulls, and I mean, the evidence is there. It's, it's a fact. It's a tangible evidence. So where does that fit? Did God create them a long time before he created man? Uh, I don't know what to think. Uh, there's nothing mentioned in the Bible according to my knowledge, so what do you think, Bobby Conway? Well, some of this is gonna come down to your

view of creation and how long ago it was. Uh, I think it is a problem for the young Earth creationists, because of all of the paleontology and all of the Um, you know, studies that are done in forensics or using carbon dating or other types of metrics to measure some of this stuff, um, it, it would seem like is if the field has been duped, uh, in some ways. Now, I know Pastor Brian, you know, he is a young Earth creationist, and he, he'll certainly, um, offer a

rebuttal on that. I do think that, um, you know, God's given us two books, the, the, the book, The Word in the world. We can general revelation and special revelation. And so, um, if you're an old Earth creationist, um, you don't have, um, a problem recognizing. Um, what to do with situations like this. Now, uh, you don't even have to arrive at a theistic evolution, uh, which is not a view that I hold. Uh, I'm

not really sure what theory I'd even ascribe to. I just think that it does make sense that the universe is old. Uh, and, uh, Adam and Eve would have been created some 60 to 10,000 years ago, but this isn't, um, even widely or or totally agreed on among scholarship, and we do have to be generous with one another as it relates to Understanding, um, the age of the universe because there are

different viewpoints that people do have. I think what you have to hold to though, is a literal Adam and Eve, uh, and a literal uh Genesis 1 through 11. Um, you know, account is really important because what some people do is they kind of get mythical with those early chapters of Genesis, but it's hard to do that and then pick up, uh, in a literal way for

the remainder chapters. So I would just say that if you were ever in a conversation with somebody that can't even possibly believe in Christianity because they'll, there's someone saying, you have to be a young earth creationist. Well, I would much rather say, you know what, there's plenty of Christians that believe differently, and uh they believe that um that God through the, you know, created uh this through the progress of time, uh, if it's somebody who's a progressive.

Creationists or a gap theorist or a framework hypothesis or theistic evolution, heck, I'd rather somebody hold to that and still believe in Jesus than think they have to walk away from it all because they don't ascribe to young Earth, and I know even Pastor Brian would agree with that. Would you? Well, if Bobby said so, I, I guess I would, um. Yeah, I, I mean, we, we have a different, uh, view on that. But I, but I would say to, um, Margo, Margot,

I think a couple of things I would say. Number one, I, I'm pretty sure that now, now, of course, let me back up a little bit. The Smithsonian, I think you mentioned the Smithsonian, correct? OK, yeah, and the Smithsonian, I mean, this is, they're gonna, this is the way they're gonna see it, that, you know, they see it through a lens.

Of naturalism, uh, they see it through an evolutionary lens, so they're gonna talk with great confidence about, you know, this, these Neanderthals that's been this, this old and, uh, kind of a um a pre-human species, uh, but there are many, many, uh, scientists who actually Uh, concluded that Neanderthals are, are just actually humans whose, uh, because of nutritional deficiencies, their, um, features formed in the ways that they did form, and then to say that

they're 200,000 years old or however many, the the whole dating thing is really, um, It's uncertain, so you can't put all of your stock in that. Uh, so I, I would say that, um, the, the Bible gives us an account of creation and the most important part is the creation of like humanity and like, like Bobby said, um, the Bible tells us about the creation of the first man.

And the first woman. So if you get the idea that there there were some other creatures that were sort of, they were sort of like human, but they weren't quite human yet and then over a process of time, they evolved. Well, that contradicts the biblical account. So, um, I think the biblical account is a better um account of the speculation that you get from these You know, different scientific perspectives, which a lot of them don't even agree with each other on. So, um, Dave, what do you think?

Well, I agree with, with both of you, especially Bobby, how you say, what are the essentials we hold on to, the essentials that there is a creator. that started everything that there is was a literal Adam and Eve that were the first creation, and that we look at the, the accounting of Genesis as a historical document, not myth. If you start with that, then you start to consider, OK, what, what are some of the ideas or theories of who these Neanderthals could be.

But I also agree that, like you said, Bobby, the world shows us truth as well. In other words, we look at God's word, we look at God's world together, integrated, that's how we form our best understanding. And the world does show us microevolution, not macro. Macro is, you know, a frog became a human. Microevolution is within the species of birds, they developed this trait or lost this aspect of genetic, you know, you know,

how did some birds have teeth? Well, genetically, maybe back then they had them over time, they didn't need them, they lost them. So we do see through Various means microevolution. And so in some ways, I really do believe that Neanderthals, like you're saying, Brian, are humans that were created but have different characteristics that came out through different nutrition or or uh season of of use. As far as young Earth, old earth, I, all I know is when I read scripture, Adam and Eve were

not created. It appears to be as babies. They were able to sustain themselves. They were not dependent upon a parent to feed them, to nurture them, to protect them. They were given jobs to do, it appears very quickly

to have dominion over the earth. So if God can create a fully formed man and woman, Then my faith can say God can create a fully formed old universe, but Old universe, young universe, it doesn't change the reality that there's a creator of it all who has given purpose to my life, where if it truly is then uh an act of evolution and randomness, then my life all of a sudden is devoid of intentionality because I don't have that God given.

Purpose, uniqueness that, that, that the creator has given to me. Bobby. Well, let's. I wanted to, let's ask Margo first. um, does any of this help, Margo? I hope so, but you're right. Actually, yeah, when, uh, when one of you, uh, gentlemen said that because of mutations, maybe they were humans and because of, uh, lack of nutrition or mutations or something they ended up being that is that, does that go also for the dinner ovens or or uh. Uh, it's for the for the what? I missed that word.

There's another uh uh species that's uh Denisovan like the Neanderthals and the Denisovan. Yeah, yeah, all of those supposed pre-humans would actually fall into the category of being humans who for whatever reason, like the Neanderthals, you know, were

um shaped differently. But again, if you're reading the um Uh, you know, if you're reading the Smithsonian, they're, they're not gonna let, you know, they, they don't want any water seeping out of their theory, so they're gonna try to make it just airtight, like, oh no, this is exactly how it was. But you know, here's another thing to think about and I, I often think of this how, um, do you know, recorded history, recorded history goes back, um, 6.

Maybe 8, maybe 10,000 years at the most. 10,000 years would be max. Now, some people, well, you know, people always talk about, well, 50,000 years ago, this, that and the other thing, uh, history as far as we know it just goes back to, um, you know, 68 1000 years ago. So whatever happened before that, Um, If there was anything that happened before that, we don't know.

We just know what we have, uh, recorded for us and what we have recorded for us is pretty much what the Bible says, that life arose in sort of the, the region of the world, like, you know, the kind of the Middle East and and all of that. So I, I think it's just good to remember that too. Every, I, I read a lot of history, every single history book I read, especially world history, you know what they have to begin with, they have a pre-history.

And they tell you all the stuff that might have happened, and then they start with, you know, about 6000 BC. That's where the actual story starts. Bobby.

Yeah, it is interesting though when I think about like, like in France, like, you know, the they they date, some of the stuff from over 30,000 years ago from like features of horses and stuff in caves and so it does get, um, and I know that these dates can be sporadic, but there are people that would say that you've got different artifacts and caves and stuff like that of, um, you know, uh, Indonesia and other, other spots. Um, but it's so hard,

isn't it, with these dates? I mean, even the Neanderthals, you'll get this range from 40,000 to 400,000, you know, uh, obviously there's DNA from the Neanderthals in, in, in 1 to 4%, uh, and you go, how do you explain that? And obviously there's, you know, they just didn't have the image of God branded on them. Uh, but that's an interesting thought as well, um, to consider the copulation that was taking place. Uh, but they

were obviously toolmaking and stuff like that. I just kind of feel so ignorant when it comes to dating that I remember the purpose of Genesis 121 and 2 is God created us in His image to steward the universe. Amen. In 6 days. In what? In 6 days. But you told you said I was a young Earth creationist, so I just thought I would prove it. Throw that in there. All right, very good, Margo. Thank you for

your phone call today on Pastor's Perspective. It's time for us to take our break, and then we'll be back with more of your questions. Got lots of good ones on the board, Nicole, Andrea, Sean, and, uh, you guys are welcome to call for the next 30 minutes at 888-564-6173. We've got Brian Broderson and Bobby Conway here and our special guest, Dave Keen from B. University. Dave there is the, uh, professor and chair of Christian Ministries, and you can find out more about Biola

at biola.edu. Biola University is the most comprehensively Christian university in North America. I still remember that tagline. Can you believe it? 888-564-6173 is the number to call us for the next half hour, so grab an open line while there's still time. 888-564-6173 is the number to call us today on Pastor's Perspective. I'm Brian Perez and I'm joined by Brian Broderson, Bobby Conway,

and Dave Keene, our special guest from Viola University. 888-564-6173 is our number and let's go back to the phones. Sean hung up. OK, so we'll go to Nicole. Here is Nicole calling us from Sam Burdue. Hi there, Nicole. Welcome to Pastor's Perspective. Hello, thank you for having me on. Yeah, thanks for calling in today.

Um, I, my question is, um, so I know Romans 10:9 says that anyone who confesses Jesus Christ as Lord and believes in the heart, they shall be saved, but there's a scripture that's kind of troubled me because I'm 36 years old and I don't have any children, and the scripture is 1 Timothy chapter 2:15, which says, But women will be saved through childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness. And

we do earns it or denies it from us. This passage you quoted in in 1 Timothy chapter 2, verse 15, the context is looking at in a in a church in Ephesus that had a lot of struggles with some wrong theology, with some bad structure, Timothy was sent by Paul to bring the church back into right living and right believing.

And therefore, in chapter 2, before he gets to chapter 3 and talking about overseers of the church, in chapter 2, he sets up the structure of men and women and how they're gonna relate to each other because Jesus gave a lot of freedom to women. He included women in his ministry and so unlike the Jewish, uh, The temple that kept women out, women were now allowed to worship alongside men in the early church. This did

cause some struggles for the family dynamic. It caused some struggle struggles for their marriages.

And so as Paul is giving some standards of the relationships of um men and women and how they're to relate to each other within the church, he then justifies those dynamics by looking at how Adam and Eve were created, we just actually talked about a literal Adam and Eve and Justifying Eve was the one that was deceived first, and therefore, because Eve was deceived, now we're talking about specifically how are women going to be saved, and there's, there's really,

I think, two ways that most people look at this, some people look at this is that they'll be saved. Through childbirth, meaning like because they are faithful in their biblical role of producing children, that's how they are saved. Once again, that puts the emphasis on what we can do to our salvation. Other people interpret this as they'll be saved in childbirth, meaning that they will physically survive

the the act of childbirth. However, we do know that many godly women have passed in childbirth, so it doesn't make sense. A better translation is not actually in the English, a better translation actually comes from the Greek. Where in the Greek grammar, it actually emphasizes that women will be saved.

Through the childbirth, referring to the birth of Christ, and I think that's how I, how I look at this is that in understanding that women have been, not women, but all humanity has been deceived and Eve, being a woman was first. Women especially will be saved through the birth of Christ, and and looking at what he has done for them. And so I would come back to to that as an idea. So, that's my interpretation of that, Nicole. That's great. I, I like, I like that and obviously.

It is definitely that versus the other, because the other is like, like Nicole is saying, she's 36 years old, she's not even married, or she doesn't have children. What does that do for her salvation? Well, it doesn't affect her salvation at all, because her salvation is through, through faith in Jesus. Yeah, this passage has been um perplexing to many for A long, long time. So, um, I think Dave, that was a great, just, you know, there's other, other ways that we could look at it, but

Don't want to add any confusion here. I think that's probably the best way to understand it at this point. Bobby, do you have any thoughts though?

Well, I thought that was a great answer, Dave. Uh, the only thing that, you know, I would add is there's a, a principle that they teach in what is known as hermeneutics, which is kind of the science of understanding the Bible, and you know, you interpret the less clear in light of what is clear, and you'll come across passages sometimes that are just Hard to pin down like when Paul 1 Corinthians 15

talks about baptism for the dead. Well, we aren't to do what the Mormon Church did and go set up, you know, all these genealogical sinners and start baptizing for the dead. Uh, it's an obscure verse, so you interpret the less clear in light of what is more clear and I look at a passage like this, and of course, like, you, can you imagine, I mean, how many women never got

to have children? Like if having children was a requirement for salvation, then basically every child that died is a female, uh, that didn't give birth, and then, uh, there's, there's two ways of salvation, one way for the guys and another way for girls by having children, so it just really

complicates it. I think what, um, What we talked about already, it really lands it good, but I would just encourage you whenever you come across an obscure passage, uh, you know, I mean, can you imagine like standing before the Lord and now you're hosed because you couldn't properly interpret this verse or baptism for the dead. I mean, there's so many interpretations on the baptism for

the dead passage that I'm just gonna plead ignorant. Uh, and I think that, you know, there's a lot of passage, I think, in the Bible that maybe God just leaves there for us to say, I don't know, because, you know, we, we just can't give answers for everything and I'm, you know, I'm kind of thankful for that. It's hard to wrap our head around. I'm still trying to figure out, you know, Romans 5:8 and John 3:16. Uh, the, the things that are clear and, and how to live that out in my own life and the

effect of it, let alone these things. Well, well, since it seems that today we are trying to give the longest answers possible to every question that we're gonna extend this one a little bit further. So thank you so much. I got so much clarity and I really appreciate you guys. Great. OK, Nicole, we're just gonna talk to ourselves so you don't have to stay on the line. Nicole's like, I'm done. But, but you know, it's interesting too because I think as you look at this passage.

Um, there's, there's, there's different sort of things there that you have to think about, like, even like saved, what when we as Christians, when we hear the word saved, we automatically think of You know, eternal salvation, belief in Jesus and all of that. Sometimes the word means like just delivered. It just means saved. It in this context, it could be saved out of something else, not salvation of the soul, but it could be.

That what's happening here is certain women and even more specifically certain wives are trying to sort of hijack the ministry in the church. They're trying to take over. And the apostle Paul is saying, you know, no, we, we don't want that. That's not, that's, you know, a woman is not to, uh, Usurp authority over the man. Teach usurped authority. That's the idea of taking a position, you know, kind of aggressively, and he's saying, um, it could be that he's saying, no,

that that's not what the women are to do. And then because of the childbearing thing, If it is referring to actual childbearing, it has to be referring. To married women and probably to the local situation that is actually going on at the moment. So, and I, I read somewhere years ago that the word that uh Child rearing could also possibly be an interpretation there. So, in other words, instead of trying to hijack the leadership of the church,

This will save you from that. Do the thing that God has given you here, take care of your family. And that is, but it's very specific for that situation versus a universal application to it, or it would apply, you know, in other contexts where a similar thing was happening. Nicole, thanks for your phone call, and we received a

question on Facebook, somewhat similar. It's from Jessica in your Belinda, not my Belinda, your Belinda, but, uh, Jessica's uh, questions about Genesis 3:16, where some translations they say your desire shall be for your husband and he shall rule over you. Other translations talk about, uh, wives will desire to control their husbands. So which one is right? Jessica wants to know. Brian. Well, I think the ESV translators. Went with the latter

Control your husband was yeah control. But, but I think that was a bit, I, I think they got in some trouble over that. There was some, some controversy that arose over the ESV translation of that passage because of what, what they said it was implying, um. But I, I think the actual rendering is uh the first one that, um, And they, they, they connect it to.

The um the situation with with Cain where God is speaking to Cain, and he's talking about sin is at the door and sin, um, it wants to overtake you, but you, you should have dominion over it. So it's the same language that's used. In the Genesis 3 passage as the Genesis 4 passage, or you know that it looks like real quick it's the new living that says control. Oh, it's a new, yeah, just so you know. I think that because this is in the context of the curse.

I think we have to look at the strife that That sin has created amongst us. In other words, sin broke our relationship with God, it broke our relationship with each other, and creation, it causes hardship, and so, Whether you describe this as her, the wife's desire shall be for her husband, and he shall rule over you, or, you know, she's gonna have her own desires, and yet those are gonna be thwarted by her her submission to

the husband. That I think the nature of the curse is strife, that things are not gonna be good between the husband and the wife because of sin, and And until we are restored by Christ and forgiveness, we do have strife with our, our spouses in great ways.

So I think, however you read that, the translation should emphasize the the conflict there will be between a husband and wife in that moment because of the curse, whether it's the conflict of um The wife will be to try to have a desire for the husband, but it's not gonna be met, or they're gonna have a contrary desires to each other. Very good. Uh, that was Jessica. Thank you for sending

in your question through Facebook. 888-564-6173 is our number. We've got Brian Broderson, Bobby Conway, and Dave Keen from Viola answering your questions. And here is Andrea in El Monte. Welcome to the program, Andrea.

Um, however, when it comes to that, There's also in the Gospel where Jesus Christ also um teaches us to pray, to pray to God the Father, and he, he prays to God, his father too. So my question is like, sometimes I have a doubt about am I praying the right way, and I get this doubt because some, some um religions or some pastors will, will pray directly to Jesus Christ. And I know the scripture somewhere also says that if we accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior, we will be saved.

But then, can you explain to me really like what's the right way to pray? Because I pray every day and I just have the doubt. Am I doing this correct? Is God listening to me or what am I doing wrong or something, you know?

the eternal son of God. It's not, um, accurate to think in terms of, oh, the, you know, the father copulated with somebody and then produced a son, or the father just created the son. Um, he's the eternal son of God. He Uh, it, it's, there, there's an order. They're, they're equal, one God, three persons, but there's function and order, uh,

that you can see. And so that happens with the Father sends the Son, the Son sends the Spirit, and some would say that the Father and the Son send the Spirit, uh, but there is Jesus submitting to the Father, but it doesn't mean he's less than. I would say that, you know, Stephen lifted up his eyes and prayed. Uh, to Jesus, uh, so you see that happening there. Uh, I, I think that in 12 Corinthians 13:14, you know, fellowship

with the, the triune God. Uh, so I, I, I don't think you're, you know what, if you, if you read a book on the Holy Spirit, let's say, it would be very appropriate to stop and just say thank you to the Holy Spirit for praying for me with groanings that I don't understand. Thank you for in. Interceding, uh, thank you, Jesus for being the mediator. Thank you, Father, for, uh,

drawing me. Uh, I mean, there's so, there's so much you can just gather, and so when you come across these attributes or characteristics, you can praise each person of the Trinity for their function and You can appreciate the Holy Spirit for being a comforter to you or for, you know, convicting you, or you can praise Jesus for dying on the cross for you. You can thank the Father for giving the Son and sending him into the world. So you can use scripture

as your material to address each person in the Godhead. Dave. I think God cares more about our attitude than our exact words. You know, when Christ told the story of the Pharisee and the tax sector that both go into the temple to pray. He noted it was about the tax collector's attitude of just being saying, have mercy on me. And so I

think it really is more about your heart. And so, Andrea, if your heart is just to cry out to your, to your God and to seek Him and to honor him and to glorify him, he's gonna respond in love and, and, and truly seeking. Uh, your best in that, um, because if, if I don't know what to pray and the Holy Spirit fills in the right words, though, then I gotta know whatever words I do have that I'm given by the Holy

Spirit to speak out loud, then they're gonna be OK. Yeah. Brian. Yeah, and Andrea, I think too, we, we have to understand that in the biblical, you know, text, as we're looking at Jesus, you know it never said. You know, the Bible never says, don't, don't pray directly to Jesus, just make sure you pray like this, and

you know, it never says that. Jesus emphasizes prayer to the Father because Jesus was wanting everybody to understand something that God was their father too, that they had uh a relationship with him that they could count on him just like they could count on, you know, the best, the world's best father. Uh, to love them and take care of them and provide for them and all of those things. So Jesus is, he's wanting them to understand this.

And so that's and and of course, you know, so he says, pray our Father in heaven, and um But it's not like, but don't ever make, make sure you never pray to me because that would be wrong, or don't ever pray to the Holy Spirit, that that won't work, you know, so, um, like, you know, like they said, it's, it's, uh, the heart is what God is really looking at here and like Bobby said, you know, you can, you can pray to.

The Father, you can pray to Jesus, you can pray to the spirit because essentially you're praying to God that God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Does that help? 11 thing I was gonna say too, it makes perfect sense that the most recorded prayers are to the Father. Uh, we have a few to the Son, and you're not seeing prayers to the Holy Spirit, and why is that? Well, progressive revelation.

The Father is revealed and then the son comes on the scenes and uh what you got are the gospels that are taking place, and you, you get to see the interaction. And Jesus is showing what a father relationship looks like, like Israel missed it. Let me model for you the way this relationship's supposed to work, and so that's what he's doing, uh, but he doesn't reject worship when it comes his way or anything like that, you know, where anybody else would.

And then the Holy Spirit, he says, I'm gonna send you the Holy Spirit. So it makes perfect sense that we don't see as many prayers equally hashed out. Very good. Andrea, thank you for calling us today here on Pastor's Perspective. And now let's go to Bermuda Dunes. Here is Dan. Welcome to the program, Dan. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Yeah, thanks for calling in today.

Thank you. Um, I heard one of you guys, I, I didn't catch who said it, but I was driving and talked about how we are made in God's image. And I had some comments on that, and maybe you guys can elaborate more. But the Bible says, Adam and Eve were made in God's image, you know, male and female, he made them. But he's talking about Adam and Eve. We are born. We're not created beings. Angels were created. Adam and Eve was created. There were nothing else and boom, they were created,

you know, the heavens and earth were created. But we as humans, we are, we are born as a baby and we grow up, you know, we get the breath of life in us from God. But our image is after Adam's fallen image. So we are not made in the image of God as human beings, you and I and everybody. That's, that's my take on that, you know, maybe. I can hear something from you guys elaborate on that, but we are not created images, you know, created beings as human beings. We are in a fallen state that

will die in Adam's fallen state after he sinned and died. The, he was, when he was created, he was clothed in light. Like when Jesus and his glorified body on Mount on the mountain transfiguration, he was bright light and everything. That was his glorified body and that's what I think Adam was created. You know, more in that image. Elijah showed up with Jesus and, you know, in the bright light, you know, being. Well, listen to the answer.

Jeez, OK. Well, OK, yeah, I, you know, yes, Adam and Eve were created directly by God, uh, but According to scripture, um, all of us are created in the image of God. After the flood, When, um, God was reestablishing sort of government for the world, he gives a prohibition uh or or he actually gives a command if a man sheds another man's blood, that man shall be that man's blood shall be shed for in the image of God, man was created.

So God says that all people were created in His image and not like the direct creation like Adam and Eve were, but we, uh, we still all bear the image of God. The New Testament speaks about the fact that we are, uh, created in Christ. We are, uh, recreated in God's image. So Dave you got a verse there? Well.

In the verse that I think you're looking at specifically in Genesis 1:26 when it says God is saying to Himself, let us make man in our image, that word Hebrew word for man is the word Adam, but in this case, it's not the person of Adam, it's best translated humanity. So where Adam is being directly addressed as a person in other passages, they take that same Hebrew word. And make it the personal name Adam in this case, because it's better translated as humanity versus just a single man.

I think that's why we could also say this passage is about who we are as a creation together, not just the one person. Adam. Bobby, 45 seconds. Yeah, I mean, how about James 3:9 with our tongue, we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse people who are made in the image of God or made in the likeness of God. That's a good one. I feel that's where I where I wanted our caller

to listen for a moment. He was very declarative about this, and I'm sitting here thinking of verses post that, that it's really important that, you know, we, we. Recognize the rest of scripture if we're going to be declaredative about something. So yeah, Genesis 9:6 is the passage, um, that I was referring to. Bobby, you had the James passage, yeah, yeah. Good stuff. Very good stuff, I would say. Thanks, Dan. Hope that gave you, uh, a different perspective, to think about.

Thanks for calling in today, and we are out of time. We'll be back tomorrow. Dave Keen from Biola University, thank you for joining us again. My pleasure. Hope to see you again soon. You can find out more about Dave and Biola at biola.e. Brian Broderson, he'll be back tomorrow. So will Bobby Conway,

and we hope you will be too. We're going to archive today's episode on Facebook, YouTube, Apple Podcasts, and Spotify if you missed any portion of it or just want to share it with your friends or just wanna listen again and take notes. But we'll be back tomorrow for you here on Pastor's Perspective. Good night. God bless.