Hello and welcome to Pastor's Perspective. I'm your host, Brian Perez. It is Tuesday, the 10th of June, and we are here live until 4 o'clock to chat with you at 888-564-6173. 888-564-6173 is that number. We're gonna have a special guest joining us in the studio first, but let me first tell you who our regulars are, our panel of pastors. They're special to me.
But uh here's Brian Broderson, he's a pastor at Calvary Chapel, Costa Mesa, and there's Bobby Conway, one of the, uh, or the main guy, the main dude, the main pastor at Image Church in Charlotte, North Carolina. Welcome guys to the program. Well, thank you, Brian. It's great to be with you and it's uh good to see Bobby all the way across the country looking as sharp as ever.
It's good to see you too, bud, and you, Brian.
Well, thank you, Bobby, and our special guest has arrived. Hi, hey, this is Chad Williams, US Navy SEAL. Chad Williams, the seal of God. He's also a, uh, city councilman in Huntington Beach, California here. How are you, Chad? I'm doing good. I, uh, I combat drove to get here on time. I was talking to Brian on the phone about I don't know 20 minutes ago. Did you, did you have a Humvee? Did you, uh, take the Humvee over? No, I, uh, I, I wrote in, in one of Elon Musk's, you know, best Model X.
Very cool. So we brought Chad on today because, uh, if you live here locally, especially in Orange County, more specifically Huntington Beach, you've been driving around town and seeing all the different signs, yes on A, yes on B, no on A, no on B, and it is so confusing. And, uh, Chad is here to kind of set things straight. Yeah, I would say just like it says in the scriptures that Satan is able to masquerade himself as an angel of light. That's really what you have with people
that are trying to take advantage of children. The way that they look at it is they are providing more diverse content to children and trying to be more open minded and say things that really are immoral. They're trying to say it's perfectly normal. It's like GK Chesterton says, you know, an open mind like an open mouth does have a purpose, and that's to close upon something.
Otherwise it becomes like the city sewers and it rejects nothing and that's what's going on in the Huntington Beach Public Library is we have sewage we have accessible there is very harmful graphic content being made available to our minors and so the effort is to say no, no to this stuff and so we're urging people to vote no on AMB and frankly.
Uh, we got some data that came in just a couple of nights ago from the Orange County Registrar of voters, and it shows that there is a 10%, uh, lead on returns, uh, from the folks that want a yes to this content. And so Huntington Beach is a conservative stronghold, and I think the mentality is of most people in Huntington Beach that we're OK, we're good. Because there's so many of us, the problem is is that everybody thinks that somebody else is gonna be taking
care of this. All we really need is people that are driving their cars right now just to head over to one of the local polls and go cast the vote. Go say no to this harmful content to get up off your couch, just get up and go. We do have a majority, but the problem is, is that, uh, people are just apathetic and complacent, and that's overseas as a Navy SEAL.
You know, that's how you get your head shot off when you're being complacent and spiritually speaking, that's what's about to take place in Huntington Beach if we don't take a stand as the people of God. So right now it's a David and Goliath, and I would say that the science behind it, the data, the analysts, they're saying this is already a loss. It looks like let's talk after Tuesday to talk about what went wrong and how we could have done it better. The way I look at it is we're not done yet.
And this has really set the stage for God and His people to come through, so that they can't go back and say, well, this is how it mapped out. They'll just say, wow, something happened on that election day and God gets the glory. Well, that is absolutely what we're praying for and hoping for and glad you could, could make it in. Um, you and I had a chat last week, and, you know, I drive through Huntington Beach almost every day and I see the signs and I saw your name and
I saw graffiti around your name. I don't, I don't think you're too popular with some, some folks over there and probably the same people in LA right now who are, yeah, I think so, probably the same group, um, but anyway, you told me some things about this that were, were pretty shocking as far as the false, uh, narrative that is, is being spun by the by the opposition. You know, because the sign says like keep our libraries open and, you know, keep our kids safe. And those
are the, those are the bad guys. Those kids are gonna shut down. So just give us a little kind of uh insight on what, what is that? Well, this is that Satan masquerading as an angel of light. They say that they are protecting children and protecting parental rights. They are the ones that are providing this content. Give you an example, one book.
Innocent sounding title. Let's talk about it. It's called Almost every other page is a very compromising animation of people in positions, and this is made available to our our youngsters. It's literally cataloged in our Huntington Beach library as sex instruction for children. This is not the birds and bees. This is the whole hive. It takes into consideration things like. Taking house household items and putting them up places that they really don't belong, uh, you can't, can't really share
the details. Let me just put it this way. One of the excerpts in this book, it says, it encourages kids to go watch porn, go figure out who their favorite porn stars are, go to the websites that they recommend and pay for your porn. That's a quote right out of it. This is being made available to our minors. Unbelievable and um and So, so your effort. And and this is what also kind of blew my mind cause cause your effort is basically to just remove
these materials from the children's section in the library. You are not even Saying they can't be in the library, you're just saying they're not to be in the children's section, but they're representing you guys as wanting to shut down the whole library. They make us out to be book banners and they say, well, technically it's kind of a banning if these children don't
have access to these books. That's like saying that movies that are playing right now are rated R are banned just because a child can't go check it out without their parents' permission. All we want is the parent's permission. Move it into an age appropriate section. So last week as a city council 7-0, we all voted unanimously that there is no book ban. We will not ban any books in the library. And there is no selling of the library. This is the big lie that's been going around. So there is
no book ban. There is no selling of the library, and I think that that really focuses it on what this is all about. It's about this harmful content, but like Mark Twain says, a lie is already halfway around the world while the truth is still getting its shoelaces tied. We're getting our shoelaces tied right now and we got a sprint at the end here and pull off a miracle. Yeah, so the polls are open till 8 till 8 p.m. all right, so. Hey, if you, is, is it limited to Huntington Beach voters?
This is limited to Huntington Beach, but almost everybody listening right now knows somebody in Huntington Beach. Yeah. All right, well, this is the time to step up and, uh, but we're gonna pray. Let let me pray right now too, because obviously we need the Lord's intervention here. Lord, you know, you see all of this, you see the, the wickedness, Lord, and we recognize that there are, uh, powers and, uh, principalities, the, the.
Spiritual darkness, Lord, that is controlling this, uh, counter narrative, and we pray against that. We pray that you would smite, uh, the wicked one. We think of children and just the devil's desire to completely corrupt them before they can even know the difference between right and wrong. And so Lord, we pray against this and we do
pray that you would move on the hearts of your people. Uh, we pray for those who are hearing this, um, moment right here, uh, that you would stir them and Lord, whatever it takes, we just pray that you would defeat this and thank you for Chad and the others who are working hard on this. Thank you for their, uh, courage and strengthen them as well. And Lord, you know, we, we just, we need your intervention in this, so we're asking for it in Jesus' name. Amen. Amen.
All right, Chad. Wait, can I just ask Chad Williams a quick question? So there might be people listening right now. Huntington Beach residents who, because of all the confusion with all the banners and everything all over the place, they thought the right vote was. Uh yes, they thought, yes, and maybe they already did their early balloting because there is early balloting, or is it just today? Yeah, they could mail in. Some have already made the mistake of, right, that's what I mean.
So right now they're listening to this and they're thinking, oh my goodness, I was supposed to vote the other way. Is it too late? I mean, it's they could reach out to the Orange County registrar of voters and they could undo it by reaching out to two more people and persuade them to vote no. So it's just like just say no to drugs, just say no to harmful content in the public library, yeah. Very good. All right. You heard him. Chad Williams, our
guest today for the opening minutes of Pastor's Perspective. So you know Bobby, Bobby knows you. I do. I can't hear right now over this, but yeah, you know, Bobby's got a nickname, you know, they call him Bobby, uh, Conway, but, uh, in Israel, we, we called him, uh, Bobby Gonaway because he was always disappearing on the group and going off into dangerous places, and I felt great concern, you know, to have his back. So Bobby Gonaway, we're always losing him out there.
Oh, that's so funny because I, I was gonna share the same thing. I remember I think we were in Jordan or something and Chad cracked me up because being a Navy SEAL, he, everywhere he went, he was doing reconnaissance. Like, I just walk off the bus. He would just be, you know, scoping everything out, looking at towers, and I was like, you know, someone didn't know he's a seal, they think this guy's kind of paranoid, but he was always just scoping things. And then one day I, I did, I
wandered off and they sent him after me. I thought, well, pretty, pretty good setup. Send the Navy SEAL after me. That's a good, that's a good idea right there.
I got you back, Bobby. Never leave a man behind. That's great. I, I didn't know that, uh, that you guys even knew each other. That's great. That's cool. All right. All right, Chad, thanks for, thanks for getting over here. Thank you guys. All right. God bless you. OK, see you. 888-564-6173 is the number to call us for the next 45 minutes or so. We're gonna be answering your questions about the Bible, the Christian faith, morality, immorality, whatever you guys want to talk about, we are here.
You can also send in your questions online as well. You know, I, I, I mean, I don't want to revisit the any of the details of what Chad shared, but the content of that book and And these guys are fighting to keep that accessible to children. I mean, it just shows you the absolute wickedness behind this whole, whole agenda. Um, you know, I was talking to, um, Oh, I, I was talking to somebody recently and just we, we were talking about how kids, um, you know, kids are nonsexual.
They're, they're, you know, like we were talking about like, you know, how little boys and little girls, uh, do the same, you know, with each other. They hold hands, they put their arms around each other, you know, they do, they do all of that stuff and and they they're never thinking anything about it because they're not thinking sexually. That's not how a, a, you know, a little child thinks. It takes an adult to corrupt them and to sexualize them.
And man, I just, you know, I just, this is where I just I'm so glad Jesus talked about a millstone that's gonna be put around the necks of some people and you just think of the absolute uh violation that adults have, um, committed against these little innocent lives and, and that's what Jesus said, um, you know, to the one who stumbles one of these little ones, it would be better for them if they Had uh a millstone around their neck and so, so, you know, there's a judgment day coming and we, um,
I mean, we're all about the grace of God, we're all about the love of God, we're all about forgiveness of sins. I mean, that's that's our focus, but, but the same God who loves and has grace and mercy and forgives, um, without repentance that God will judge and and there's gonna be a, a, a day of reckoning. I was reading in Timothy today, you know, some people's sins are, um. You know, kind of covered over. They, they keep them concealed, but they, they will be revealed in time and God
will deal with it. So, and, and you know that's part of justice. I mean, when we talk about God being a God of justice, that's what we're talking about vindicating those who have been corrupted and violated and you know, so. So anyway, I was glad Chad reached out and glad we could have him in today and hope that, you know, things can turn around over there with that election. Yeah,
for sure. Uh, we did have somebody call in who disagreed with what we were talking about at the beginning of the program, but said they don't want to go on the air because they didn't want to talk about politics. I don't think this is about politics. I don't think this is about politics. I think, uh, uh, adult books in a children's section in the library. Encouraging little kids to find a porn star to look up to. I, I don't know what's that, I don't call that politics.
I call that sin. And the Bible deals with sin, so. Yes, indeed. All right, 888-564-6173. Here's a question that was sent in online. It's from Tina. And Tina writes, I'm a born-again Christian, not Pentecostal. But I heard the calling to start wearing only skirts last year after a trip to San Diego, where I saw many women representing their religions. I wanted to be set apart, but now I miss dressing like I used to, which
was always modest anyway. How do I know if this is not just falling into vanity, and am I falling away from Christ? Bobby, what do you say to Tina?
She wants to know if she's falling in the vanity because she's dressing modest, the skirts.
No, I think because it's probably one of those, uh, she's saying she's not Pentecostal, but maybe, you know how some, uh, groups, they say that the women have to wear those long ankle length skirts, and so she started doing it too because she wanted to feel set apart that she was trying to show that she's Uh, deeply committed to the Lord, but now she's looking at it and saying, you know, is this just vanity
on my part that I was doing this? And, and she was always a modest dresser anyway, so she's like, what was, what was wrong with it in the first place? And so she's wondering, it sounds like she's wondering if she kind of reverses on that, is that a sign of her kind of falling away from the Lord if she goes back and just just dresses normally.
Yeah, I mean, the term obviously I, I, vanity probably is not the right term. It's hard for me to imagine that if you're dressing even more modest, that that's vanity. Uh, unless she's concerned about wearing the skirt because of vanity, but I just don't think that's a rule anyway. I think modesty, um, is the biblical rule for both men and women, and probably none of us in the West, uh, follow that, uh, as well as we should, uh, given the way that they dressed in the, you know, ancient
culture and still in many parts of those worlds. So what's modest to us. Um, would definitely be overexposure in other cultures. I remember when I was at Dallas Seminary, uh, a, a good friend that moved from India, uh, we built a relationship and he just was so blown away by how much skin was exposed, uh. And he just couldn't believe it, and so he really struggled and missed the, the kind of the safety of being in a culture where it would be genuinely modest.
So I do, um, I, I'm not even convinced that when we're trying to be modest that, that we really are. I don't know what your thoughts are on that, Brian.
Well, I, I mean, in some ways, I do think we're talking about sort of cultural distinctions, right? And even in dress, you know, um, and, and you think of You know, some hyper Pentecostal groups would, would prohibit women from wearing pants, and somehow it was more holy for women to wear dresses. And yet, then some would come along and say, well, you know, Like, I mean, Islam would say, well, you can't wear
a dress. I mean, that's, you know, that's unholy, but then you have even among men, um, in some groups, you couldn't wear short sleeve shirts because your, you know, your, your biceps and your You know, your, your arms, you know, like, like you and I, you know, it's like super show, yeah, you know, like the super solid guys like us, I mean, it could be stumbling to people, so, you know, so that's why I wear a long sleeve shirt wherever I go, you know, not,
yeah, so that's, that's why I started wearing a, a robe. Uh, as well as I travel the streets, so, well, actually,
no, you just got your sleeve tattooed on your arm.
I know, right? It is tough though. I think what I do think that we have to, that's gonna be a personal thing, but I mean I've seen people even come to church sometimes and it's like.
Jeez, um, this is, you know, this, this can be a little bit over the top, um, and you've seen it with guys and girls where you're thinking this isn't probably where we're at, but I just throw myself in the same boat thinking that we grew up and, I mean, you know, especially Southern California culture, I mean, you, you know, I went to church on tank tops and shorts and, you know, so it's like, That's, that's pretty exposed, right? Uh, so, what does that
look like? I don't think we should start dressing like they do in the Middle East, uh, but I think we should explore our heart, like, are we trying to cause people to You know, desire us in an intimate way through the clothing that we're wearing, uh, but then you do want to feel good about the way you're dressing and you wanna, you know, everybody doesn't wanna dress like, you know, and I was the guy when I was a kid, I was like, just because I'm gonna get old someday, I
do not wanna get to a certain age and have to retire to. Uh, dockers with pleats and rock ports and bouboker glasses. So in, in golf shirts. So, you know, that, that would be modest, but you know, we all have our styles too, right?
You're describing my apparel. Well,
it might be the shirt for the day, but that's not your apparel each day. I don't think I've ever seen you in pleated pants, Brian.
Well. Yeah, it's been a while. It's been a while. So let's talk about that phrase. We don't hear it much anymore, but wearing your Sunday best. Remember that used to be a thing, and I mean, what does that mean nowadays and what does it mean, period, because people took that to mean, you know, men wearing jackets and ties and, well, I,
I think again it kind of depends on, on the culture. Um, I know in the, the black church, um, Wearing your Sunday best was was an important thing among uh black congregations because they felt it was, you know, this is a time they felt it was honoring to God to, you know, you're going into the house of God, you wanna look your best, and so they get nice and dressed up. And, and I think the same is true for others as well over the years, I think.
You know, in some senses, it was seen as respectful, um, to not just roll out of bed and not You know, do anything with your hair and just put on your flip flops and a t-shirt, go off to church. You can do that, and it, it's OK to do that. So there isn't, I think you just don't want to be legalistic about these things, you know, if you feel like a strong conviction that you want to really dress up nice on Sunday because of the Lord, well, go ahead and do it, but don't judge anybody that that
doesn't do it. But going back to the original um question, I, I just want to encourage, uh, What's her name? Tina, Tina? Yeah, I just want to encourage Tina not to be caught up in in a legalistic approach to this, you know, I, I like what you, what you wrote and what we've responded with is it it doesn't seem like you have a problem with immodesty or, you know, that you're, you're wanting to, you know, dress in a way that's provocative.
Uh, so just, I would just encourage you just to dress normally, just dress the way you would like to, and, and don't worry about it. You don't have to conform to somebody else's idea of what, um, it looks like to dress wholly. Tina, thank you for sending in your question through our website. And now let's go up to Colorado Springs. Here is Linda, listening on the Kwave app. Hello, Linda, welcome to Pastor's Perspective. Thanks for calling 888-564-6173.
Um, I was reading through Ezekiel today, and all of a sudden in verse or in, um, in chapter 9, verse 2, I, I'm on my 32nd um year going through the Bible, and I just love reading it. It's just, it's just so incredible. But um I never picked up. Where it says that um when they're describing the wheels and the faces and the animals, um, that, uh, the man is all it says in my Bible, the man in, in white linen. And I thought, oh my gosh, that's how Jesus is, is um written about in Revelation.
So, I just wanted to know what your thinking was on that. You're asking if it's Jesus that's being referred to in Ezekiel 9? Correct. OK, Brian, what do you tell Linda? No, it's not. It's, um, the linen would be, uh, you know, a type of um fabric, and this was the priestly fabric, uh, the priest garments were to be made of linen, their undergarments were to be made of linen. And so, um.
We do see that um and I think it is revelation where there's a description of Jesus clothes with a garment um to his. Yeah, down to his knees, I think, um, maybe it says linen, I, I can't remember, but no, but you know, the context would not. Um, you, you couldn't interpret the context of Ezekiel to be speaking about Jesus. It's, it's just a common, uh, the linen was a common in, in some ways like white linen, it would, it would be sort of symbolic of purity.
All right, Linda, thank you for calling in with your question today on Pastor's Perspective. And here's a question that was sent in online because our break is coming up. 888-564-6173 is our number, by the way. Rachel wrote in. How much should you be involved in helping someone who is sinning? A young family member who says he's a Christian, although there is no evidence, has gotten his girlfriend pregnant, and they are asking for help to buy things so
they can move in together. Bobby, what do you tell Rachel?
Yes. Yeah, I would say, uh, that the parent were the parents looking for wisdom on that, Brian, I missed the first part.
Um, it just as a young family member, so yeah, some, somebody
who's
in Rachel's
family how to steer their daughter on whether or not the guy should move in.
Uh, well, yeah, the, the young family member who says he's a Christian got his girlfriend pregnant. Now they're asking for money so they can move in together.
Yeah, I mean, I don't, that that's a really that that's a Yeah, well, obviously they shouldn't be living together, uh, you know, if they're not married, #1, and number 2, if he's not a Christian and she is a Christian, they shouldn't even be dating, but now you have the consequence which God can use as a blessing, uh, a baby, but still there'll be consequences that will come with the decision, um.
You know, I think that that's the kind of, um, question that they're gonna need to get some real counsel from on the best way to navigate this, because you've got a father that's gonna want to be connected to the baby. You've got a daughter that seems like she's opening up to, you know, wanting him to live with her, but I don't think the right choices for them to
just live together. I think that You know, and now she's not a Christian and they love each other, you know, then that might even be a different scenario for you, like, hey, encourage them maybe to get married if they really love each other, but there's a lot of follow-up questions that you would have to figure out all the dynamics to know how to guide this.
Ryan, any thoughts from you? Well, I think that's It The pregnancy, all of that, you know, it's all everything's already in motion and you're not gonna, you know, you're not gonna stop that. Um, and there, you know, you said, uh, he professes to be a Christian, but there's no real evidence uh for that in his life. Um, I think just, you know, let's just maybe just even remove like the spiritual part of it for a second and just think of, here, here's a young couple
that needs some help. And, um, Yeah, why not, why not help them out just in the, in the practical sense to get them sorted. And then, you know, trust that maybe through that act of kindness and grace, maybe God would, you know, plant a seed or God would do something to awaken them, you know, uh, children coming into people's lives, it, it's a game changer and this could be part of the whole game changer that's that's in process here. So, I, I don't think, you know, there's nothing the matter
with doing it. Um, it wouldn't be like a sin to help somebody out. I mean, that's basically what we're talking about here. So, um, but then, of course, you, I mean, at the end of the day, you're the one that's gonna do it and you're the one that's gonna um fork out the, the bucks or whatever. And so you need to have a clear sense that, yeah, this is, this is what I need to do. Yeah. Bobby, about 30 seconds.
Yeah, that's a good word. I mean, I definitely think helping them and not throwing stones is, is huge. If you can encourage them to come up with a path, maybe we're not living together, but you're able to help them and come up with a plan that they can use some wisdom, uh, that would be great, but Lord be with you guys and all the best. I, I know that that can be challenging.
Rachel, thank you for sending in your question through Kwave.com, and it's time for our break. We'll be back in a couple of minutes and then we'll be in the studio for about 25 more minutes. So call now if you've got a question for Pastors Brian Broderson or Bobby Conway. 888-564-6173 is our number. If you're watching on Facebook, YouTube, or Instagram, thanks for watching. We've got the number right there on the bottom of your screen, 888-564-6173.
Hey, we're back on Pastor's Perspective. 888-564-6173 is the number. Brian Perez is my name. Brian Broderson and Bobby Conway are the ones in studio answering your questions while Brian's in studio. Bobby's in his home studio in Charlotte, North Carolina. We're here for the next 25 minutes at 888-564-6173. And uh here's a question from another one that was
sent in online. It's from Valerie. Do babies who are stillborn go to heaven, even though they haven't made a profession of faith, considering that the Lord knows whether they would have walked with him in the future, Brian? Uh, yes, I believe they do go to heaven. Um, I believe that, um, you know, original sin is. The sin of Adam imputed to human beings, to Adam's descendants. So we're born in original sin, but it's not, it's an imputed sin. It's not actual sin on our part.
We become responsible for our own sin at a point in life, but not in infancy or anything close to that. So, um, when Jesus died, he died for all sin. He died for Adam's sin. He died for that sin that was imputed and so I believe that um the the imputed sin that is transferred an original sin to an infant is. Taken care of by the by the sacrifice of Jesus. So, I, I don't think we need to worry at all about children who die in infancy. Thank you very much, Valerie, for sending in your question
through Kwave.com. And now, let's go back to the phones. Uh, oh, Terry hung up. Terry, call us back. We really want to talk to you, Terry. So we'll go to Sean and Menefee watching us on YouTube. Hey there, Sean, thanks for calling. Sean, go ahead. Hi, can you hear me? Now we can. Um, so yeah, my question was related to forgiveness. Um, I was wondering if the pastors could either model what
our actual involvement is with forgiveness. So two situations, let's say a car accident, which is not a sin against God. Um, if that person asks you for forgive them, then we obviously do that. But let's say there's a sin that does involve God, maybe in the case of adultery or something. Do we actually forgive that person's sin or Do we just ask God to forgive the sin and you know we give him our Go ahead to do that. Bobby, what do you say to Sean?
Well, a couple things, in a car accident that was truly an accident, like not a person driving under the influence, uh, you could understand how somebody could feel hurt, like they need to forgive, but there Not using the right category if it was an accident, because forgiving implies that somebody did something wrong to you, and accidents that happen in this world, they might offend us, and so that offense can create anger and all kinds
of other emotions. And so I think uh you're dealing with Offense, and then you feel offended when somebody does sin against you, and that requires forgiveness. So all offense doesn't require forgiveness, but all forgiveness means that there was something offensive to you and therefore, uh, then you ask, well,
are you asking God or is it just myself? Well, I think that You know, you can pray that God would open their heart to ask for forgiveness, but that's gonna be between that person and God, but you can pray, uh, certainly for God to stir that person's heart, uh, in the spirit of praying for your enemies, uh, that's a good thing. And then, yes, when somebody does something wrong against you. Um, and they ask for forgiveness, then we are to
forgive because Christ forgave us. Now, a lot of Christians, I think confused, as I mentioned on the radio last week, uh, I think that many times people are just easily offended. And then they're harboring bitterness, but the person never really sinned against the person. They might not have liked the way somebody did something, or it could be a number of things, but we have to really, uh, think about did this person sin against me.
And then there can be sins that are intentional and non-intentional. And so there's different levels of this. If it's an intentional sin, that makes it more difficult, right? If it's non-intentional, but you still were sinned against, then that can be a challenge, but not as. is the intent, uh, when it was meant to hurt you or what have you. So there's a lot that goes into the whole forgiveness thing. I think that we just want to keep our hearts soft. We want to
be loving. We don't want to hold bitterness. We want to live in a way that models Christ-like love to even those who hurt us.
So why were you asking this question, Sean? Um, well, I try to forgive people, sometimes they don't even ask for forgiveness. I just don't want to live with it on my You know, conscience or whatever. Um, but I'm kind of wondering when you forgive somebody who doesn't ask for it. Um, I mean, obviously that's just repair. You're not.
Literally talking to the person if they're not asking for the forgiveness, but do you just, um, when you pray, ask God to forgive the sin or do you say, you know, if, if your will be done, I, I forgive this person as well. Brian. Yeah, I think, Sean, that's a good, it's it's a good posture to be in, you know, because, I mean, we, we can be sent against and if we and we can be sent against by people that are never going to Um, Ask for forgiveness or or repent necessarily or admit that
they did anything wrong. And if we hold that it's only gonna harm us in the long run. So I think to just be able to be rid of that and just say, OK, Lord, I, for your sake, I, I forgive them. But you, you can forgive what they did to you, but you cannot forgive what they did in violation of God's Law, so they still are accountable to God and with God. There's not forgiveness apart from repentance. So you don't just
get forgiven, you have to seek forgiveness. So I would say you're, you're in a good place, just stay there and then, you know, and then you can pray for the person that, you know, their heart would be softened and that they would seek um forgiveness. When, when Jesus was on the cross and he prayed, Father, forgive them for they, for they know not what they do, did God say, OK, they're forgiven, or what, what did that mean? Yeah, I I mean, obviously, the same people. Not Much later.
would be the people that were being preached to in Jerusalem by the apostles. And what did they say to him? They said, repent, and they charged him with uh the crime of killing the Son of God. So now, yeah, so I think, I think what we see there is, I mean, in one sense, you would, you could easily think that they're committing an unforgivable sin. They're killing the Son of God. Father, forgive them, for they don't, for they don't know what they're doing. So in one sense, you could think
like this is unforgivable. There could never be any forgiveness. So I think what Jesus is praying is that this would not be like the unpardonable sin. This would not be permanently held against somebody with no opportunity for forgiveness, not that. Um, oh, they're all forgiven. They don't need to worry about acknowledging because they did have to acknowledge, and that's what happened on the day of Pentecost. Very good. Hey, Sean, thank you for calling us today here on Pastor's Perspective.
Now to Newport Beach, we go. Krista, thank you for calling 888-564-6173. Hi, thank you for taking my call. I have a question about our pastor was preaching from Genesis 28, and he was discussing the Jacob's ladder portion. He, his first point was that God came down the ladder and was standing next to Jacob. So his point effectively was, God loved us enough to come down to us. We don't have to earn our way to God, which is fully supported in all of scripture.
The, the problem for me was that my version of the Bible said the exact opposite, and my version said, and God's, and the Lord stood above it and spoke to Jacob. So then I went through Bible gateway and was looking at all the different versions, and most of the versions say God stood above it, the Lord stood above it. A few say the Lord was leaning on it, and a couple say that the Lord was with him, standing
next to him. And so when it comes to issues like this that are Feel to be directly opposite in very credible versions of The Bible How are we supposed to, we who haven't gone to school and don't know how to interpret these things and which is correct, what are we supposed to do? What do you think, Bobby Conway?
I do think that, you know, it's the angels that are ascending in that passage and descending and God is, you know, standing above. Um, so I think that sometimes pastors can try to drive a New Testament point. Uh, with an Old Testament passage and it doesn't fit. Uh, you know, I think that a lot of times it's just an, an innocent mistake, you know, there's a lot of humble pastors that you could just say, hey, oh, you know what, that's a good point. I just got
excited in the moment. So, to your bigger point though, uh, you know, what, what do you do when you're looking at different translations and you come across a
Apparent discrepancy. And that's common, uh, and, uh, what they even teach you to do in preaching classes, for example, is before you teach, read, uh, or, or if you're gonna, you know, teach a Sunday school class, you wanna look at different translations to see what they're saying, and what you're looking for is where something might be stated differently. And that's where you can find Some challenge, but you have to kind of dig in to figure out, you know, which do you think is
the best approach. I wouldn't get heartburn about it because
there's so many of those instances. Uh, at, at the end of the day, a lot of this surfaces if you're looking at a KJV or New King James, because that uses Uh, the text receptus set of manuscripts, but if you're looking at like an ESV, an ASB, NIV, this is gonna be using, uh, you know, the critical text, which is a different set of manuscripts, and depending upon the manuscripts that the translation was built from, uh, they're trying to be faithful to the text that they're using, be it
The text is receptus or the critical text. And so, those documents then inform them on how to come up with the best way of wording it. Now, sometimes what happens is, is you also have paraphrase like living Bible. Or the message, you have dynamic equivalent like new living translation or NIV or you have translations to try to give the most accurate word to fit the word in the languages of the Greek and the Hebrew, and that
would be your ESB or KJV in ASB. And so when it comes to kind of the dynamic equivalent, they're trying to translate the best idea of the word. And that idea might create some confusing. So if you're looking at an ESV and you're looking at a new living translation, well, one's trying to capture the original word, the other's trying to give the idea the word, and if you're looking at a paraphrase, it might even add
some extra words. So if you're preparing to teach, you want to look more at different translations that are capturing word for word, and then that will tighten things up. Uh, and then when you see that, typically, it's gonna be a textual issue, like, you know, this can only be healed through prayer or this can only be healed
through prayer and fasting. Well, the and fasting is going to be a part of the text receptus and the KJV New King James, but then it leaves the and fasting off in the ESV or the NASB, which would be the critical text, and why is that? Because it doesn't show the and fasting in that, but it will give a notation for that.
Brian. Uh, yeah, I, I think that's great, and I think um that's a great explanation, Bobby, and thank you. I think to, uh, Krista that You know, the, the Lord stood above it is the actual reading, but then, like Bobby said, some translations want you to just get the point that the Lord was with him. So that's, that's the point. It's not so much the point that he's standing above the ladder. The point is that he's with Jacob and he's talking to him. So,
so sometimes that's, that's what they do. They reduce it down to, OK, what is, what is this trying to communicate, and then they put what it, what they believe is trying to communicate, and generally they're right. Um, I think a few times they kind of miss it sometimes, but Does that help? Yes, thank you very much. It does help. Great. And and it's the Christian Standard Bible. Yeah, the CSB, yeah, I'm actually reading through that currently, that's my morning uh devotional reading.
And um yeah, it's good because I, I have everything that I know of the Bible memorized in NIV. So are they coming from two different. Exactly. No, they, those come from the same manuscript source. Um, yeah, the difference, the only ones that are different are the King James and the New King James. They come from, as Bobby was saying, the text receptus, uh, but all of the other ones come from the critical text, so.
Um, now, I've been reading and teaching the NIV for a couple of years, and, but I, you know, had for like 40 years of in KJV under my belt with a few years of KJV before that. So my problem is like I got one version stuck in my brain and then I'm reading another version. I'm like, wait, it shouldn't say that because in my brain it says this, um, but, but the CSB I have found, um, It reads more similarly to like what I'm used to in the New King James, uh, than the NIV does.
And so and it and it's, what do they what do they call the CSB they've got a special, they they've kind of come up with their own like not dynamic equivalent, but they're How are they wording it where they're trying to do the best of word for word and thought for thought combined. So where they can do word for word and it's clear, that's what they're doing. When they do word for word and it's not crystal clear, then they're then they're going to the thought approach.
So which Bobby, what's that called?
Yeah, I'm not, I'm not sure. Uh, wasn't Ed talking about that a few weeks ago because Ed
optimal optimal equivalent
optimal
equivalence draws from both dynamic, which is the thought and formal equivalence, which would be the word for word. OK, so yeah, optimal
equivalence, and that's what, um, that's the. Is that the CSC what it's using? Yeah. And that's the one that Ed talked about, right?
Yeah, that's the one Ed is, um, he's a spokesperson now for the CSB. Yeah,
OK, Christian, because I got a, I did get a copy of that, and I too started reading it, um, but that wasn't a, a phrase that I even remember, um, you know, in seminary, I think that that's I think it's a good approach, but I'm excited about reading it, you know, when I was in seminary, you know, that it was crazy like. You would be taking like Greek.
And they would put these textual problems before you, and then you'd have to kind of read it in the Greek, and then you would have to look at the apparatus in the Greek, and then you would have to like, oh, manuscript, you know, P46 or whatever it was that you were digging into, you had to, you had to write out Using the best argument for which is probably the original, so you had to get into what is internal evidence
and external evidence. And then one of the things too, it's interesting is you would, they tend to give the benefit of the doubt to the shorter reading, because when you see extra words, they tend to think that what's happening is that somewhere along the line, scholars were trying to
Make it more understandable. And so basically, the less words tends to be the way that the textual critic will lean toward being more accurate than the elaboration because then you're thinking there's a little commentary on that, and there's different places where you see that in the New Testament.
Yeah, and there's some places where I, uh, you know, there are places where I agree, I agree with both and disagree with both. Sometimes it's like, yeah, the shorter reading, I think that's the better, and then some other times I'm like, oh no, they, they should, like, like here's a great one at the
the Lord's Prayer in Matthew 6, right? In Matthew 6, in the The Texas receptive or we'll just call it that, um, for thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever is there, but it's not in the critical text. And so the critical text ends, um, the Lord's prayer, you know, before that is before that part comes in. And I'm like, no, no, no, that the shorter reading is not the preferred reading here.
Yeah, it gets, uh, challenging sometimes looking at all this. I, I told my wife yesterday, he's like, you know, cause my appetite is to read things that no one's ever gonna ask me about anyway. And so I said, I, as much as I have an appetite for reading stuff that like no one's gonna ask me questions about, uh, I'm having to ask myself, do I keep growing in areas where it's not gonna concern my audience, or am I gonna be wiser. Just reading in areas that are gonna be more relevant.
And early on, I think you need to for the thought process to go through all that, but if you don't plan to live in the world of academia and putting out academic papers, you might become irrelevant if you are studying things that people never find relevant.
Yeah. I, I've had times where I've thought. I am spending my life researching things that nobody else cares about. And I think you have that 100 times more than I do. So
I got a PhD in on the moral argument, and I've probably had a half a dozen people ask me about the degree that took me 7 years. What was it that you studied and then if I do talk about it. Then, uh, what you tend to hear is, um, well, can you dial that down a little bit for me? And so what I've done is I've subjected myself to 7 years of mental torture and I'm left with something all to myself that even when I try to share it with people. If I don't break it down to its absolute minimum,
then it's just glass in the eyes anyway. So it can leave you in that state.
Let's make Bobby feel better. Tomorrow we'll only answer questions on the moral argument. That way the whole hour, it'll make Bobby feel a little bit better. Would that help you, Bobby?
I, I enjoy talking about the moral argument, sure.
Well, you better cost you a lot of money.
No, I'm wondering like, you ever, you ever write something, Brian, someone's like, boy, I really enjoy what you wrote in the book, you know, you don't even remember writing it, you know, like I wrote that. Well, yeah, I forgot.
Uh, yeah, right, Krista, thanks for calling us today here on Pastor's Perspective, Sharon and Fontana, you're next, hello. Hi, how are you? Doing well, thank you. How, what's, uh, what's your question for Bobby and Brian today? My question is that, I think it's Chronicles 1415 somewhere in there, but they were carrying the ark in, and one of the two people carrying it, um, touched it to keep it from falling,
and then
God struck
him
down. I'm kind of wrestling with that, like why? Yeah, it seemed like a nice thing to do, right? He didn't want the ark to fall down, right? He's trying to stop it, but I guess God said no. Why is that the case, Bobby?
Well, there was a proper way to carry it, and, um, it's kind of like the person that, you know, if anybody's caught gathering sticks on Sabbath, he should be stoned, and you think, my goodness, at first blush, uh, you can read that now, we don't have any record of that transpiring, but there was a proper way for it to be carried. And so it seems to be that. That they weren't taking that in a sacred way in
transporting it the way that God laid it out. And so sometimes somebody becomes an example, like with Aikinsen, um, Ananias and Saira, uh, What you hear with the sticks, you're thinking, well, why would that be? Well, because if people just started working on Sabbath, then it would undermine the very purpose of the Sabbath culture. And so God was like, you got to deal with this. And then hopefully, that commandment just being in place caused people to go, I won't collect sticks on Sabbath.
Any thoughts, Brian? Yeah, I, I think Sharon too, another thing to consider is that, um, if you go back to the book of Leviticus in the 10th chapter, you have uh the beginning of the sacrifices. So the, so the covenant has just been established and the tabernacle worship is just beginning and two sons of Aaron, they offer strange fire and God slays them. And then you have the situation with Aiken that uh
Bobby mentioned in the book of Joshua. And then going fast forward to the New Testament, you have Ananias and Seirra. In each of these, you have a like a fresh new um work of God that's kind of in the process of of coming coming forth. And so is the case with uh with the Chronicle's passage and the incident with Uza. Um, they're transitioning now into the Davidic, um,
Monarchy and all of that is happening. So like it's a fresh new day, and it's almost like when something fresh began, God moved swiftly and sometimes um You know, sharply against sin to kind of set a precedent for, hey, this is a holy thing, and we don't want to think of it any other way. And I, I think that's what was happening, uh, largely with Uza. Sharon, thanks for calling us today on Pastor's Perspective, and
that is all the time we have today. Sorry if we're gonna get to your call, but we'll be here tomorrow from 3 to 4 p.m. Pacific time. We would love to hear from you then. We're gonna archive today's episode on Facebook, YouTube, Apple Podcasts, and Spotify in just a few minutes in case you missed any part of it or want to hear it again.
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