Reflections

the physical barriers between India and Pakistan. For the past several weeks, you've heard an array of stories across generations about partition. But what do we do with all these conversations. There are many current examples across the globe where we can put this knowledge into action and attempt to make the world a little bit better. From I Radio, I'm Nahasis and this is Partition, a podcast that will take a closer look into this often forgotten part of history.

The voice you heard at the beginning is from journalists and author A Lungeon of Bomac. She recently wrote an article for National Geographic about little villages along the India Pakistan border and their everyday physical struggles caused by this arbitrarily drawn line. In our article, she writes the following.

Along India's international border with Pakistan, southern hamlets on the Ruby River rely on scattered lifelines for survival, a floating bridge that has to be dismantled for four months every year during months in season, A lone boat in the monsoons, a couple of empathetic boatmen. Around thirty people live in the cluster of seven villages known as Magora but Then, which include Thor Lascian, Rujport, Ceba, Baril, Caglee, Mami, Chakranga

and Goodgard. On one side, the land is fenced by the Revie, a fierce river that separates it from the Indian mainland. On the other, miles of heavily guarded barbed wire and steel mesh fence partition it from Pakistan. I have always specialized in telling stories of the human condition, so you know, it was a very hot story to cover because that area is really remote. There is literally just one boat to you know, like crossover, and that

also depends on how high the river is flowing. When Alanina was approached by the magazine, she wasn't sure if she was up for the job. She had just done a difficult story about vaccinations in rural areas. She was recovering from a third bout of COVID nineteen and she was doing promotions for her book Lies. Our mothers told us she was swamped at the end of it all.

The story was so gripping, you know, seventy five years after independence, that you know, this was still the India, you know, one of the Indians, you know, that was still existing, was so so compelling that I honestly had to put aside all my reservations and I said, I'm going, you know, I mean, this is not a story that I cannot not tell, you know, this is a story

I have to tell. She mentioned that although the area she was visiting was a non confrontational border, she still faced a lot of issues were trying to get in even then because of the mere fact that this was the India Pakistan border. It was very, very difficult getting permission, to be honest with you, We were running against the clock because the bridge was going to be dismantled, and first we wanted to be there, you know, when the bridge was being dismantled, but we didn't get the permission

for that. After I think, you know, two or three weeks of struggling to get permission, we thought that this was not happening because once you know, monsoon started in earnest, then you know the river will flow and there was no point in going because we would not be able

to cross. We could still do a story, but I wouldn't do justice, you know, to the lives the people in those on Clive's lead, because you know, unless you experience what the experience, even though you know you're experiencing it, maybe you're like for a couple of days, three days, four days, you know, but still you have a taste of If this is so difficult for me for four days, just imagine this is a life that these people live every day now. Longina states in the article that life

has remained unchanged since partition. Many issues remain. Roads are unpaved, primary schools are struggling, and there are no high schools or hospitals. In her article, she describes the daily pains residents must endure. To approach the villages from the shore. One has to carefully negotiate almost a mile of sandy and slippery river band which turns into much when it rains, giving way to unpaved and uneven stretches leading up to

the various villages. The challenges of daily living here has intensified with the increasing frequency of extreme weather events due to climate change, especially flooding. A seventy year old farmer Jold sing is quoted saying, we are the forgotten people. The fear of getting caught in a crossfire between the

two countries is always present. India and Pakistan have fought two full fledged wars since, as well as several minor skirmishes and a limited conflict and gargo in If another war breaks out, the residents fear they would have nowhere to run. We could be wiped off the face of the earth during the night and nobody would know before it's too late, Singh said. Despite running into problems with the Indian Border Security Force while shooting footage, Landona was

able to get the story with some adjustments. She said. Planning and executing the story took a little less than twenty days. She drove ten hours from her home in Lily to the Punjab province. She stayed in a local army base called Patan Court. Every morning, the crew would set out at five am in order to reach the river by six am, the time when the first ferry

departs on a good day. Sometimes, you know, we would just go and sit there, you know, because the water levels would be high and the boat wouldn't be you know, lying, and we would just sit there waiting, you know, along with the passengers, you know, talking to them so or just generally you know, just it was dropping on their conversations. It is the whole thing, you know, that community unit

just depends on each other. So it it's such a community feeling that even if you're a new person, you've become a part of the community immediately because that's what they do. You know. They have so little to go on and their life is so full of struggles that they somehow, you know, like embrace you, you know, with an openness that is probably not possible you know in a city or even you know, in places you know, where life is easier. Nalandina had a total of five

days to capture the experiences of these communities. She and the team gained assistance from locals in order to interview

the residents at these sparsely populated areas. They had a rough first day they weren't really getting the stories they had envisioned, but on day too, she encountered a husband and wife Manjeeth and Regin there waiting for about so you know, like this couple was, you know, like they were legs waiting to cross, and she was carrying like this big shoot kind of a bag, you know, and I could see that she had food in the bag. So then I just you know, like approached him. Just

you know, this was not planned or anything. I had no idea about who the guy was or what they were doing. I just you know, approached him out of this this instinct, you know, like some instinct, you know. And when I was talking to him, that's when the story just came out. So I said that, you know, are you going on the other side and he said, yes, we are going on the other SIP side said that what is that you know your wife is carrying and he said that, oh, it's food for us. So then

I was intrigued. I was like, what do you mean you know, so do you have larned there? Right? And he said, yeah, you know, we go across every day. We have learned there. So you know, like she has got you know, like breakfast and lunch and my father is on the other side, so you know, We're going to go there the entire day, you know, work on the fields and then you know, I mean in the evening. And then I said that, you know, so you do this every day and he said, yes, we do this

every day. We you know, like he lives around twenty kilometers away and he leaves home at around four am every morning to come to the boat stop. I want to take the boat you know, to the other side. For me, that was the first you know, like glimpse of the story I was going to tell that I had. When she tagged along with this couple, another angle of the story presented itself. It is a story about separation, you know, like a story about a border within a country.

The people live in land that belongs to India. Part of the land is you know, on the Pakistan side, but they don't live there. You know, it's like just you know, land for cultivation. But they're still you know, like live on Indian land. But you know, the river Rugby is such a furious river that almost everyone I spoke to there told me the same thing that you know, this river is like, you know, it separates us from India.

This is our border, you know for India. The order starts, you know, like from the border fences, but for us, you know, the border starts from here. So what came out on the second day is that you know, like the elderly have decided to stay back because they can't abandon the land. But you know, like they also know that they're the younger generation, like not their children, but their grandchildren. You don't have no future on that land. That land doesn't even have a primary health care center

or anything. You know, there is like nothing there, you know, so they have what they have all done, you know, is that you know, they all bought land on the other side, which is you know, like the mainland Maka Patan. So the younger generation has moved there. Their children, you know, go to school, you know, like over there, they just

you know, like come and go every day. Nol Angina goes on to say that the people who live in these small villages are lifelines for each other when the water rises that from the mainland in the night, you know, after seven o'clock when the boat stops back out off. So you know, even if there is a medical emergency, I mean they sometimes you know, the bass will help them,

you know, like to probably get to the mainland. But you know, and and the boatman you know also because he's part of the community and he feels so bad for them. If they call him in an emergency, he'll come, you know, and despite you know it's being so dangerous in the night, you know, to take the boat. He is sometimes you know, he does take the boat, you know, to help you know, someone who's probably ill. So you know, there's this community feeling. You know that is literally you know,

the lifeline of this community over here. And you know, like when you get on the boat, because there is no embankment, right so you know, like they have to struggle to get the boat and then you know, like the people who know wore pushing the boat, and even the boat is steered on the one end you know, by the boatman, but on the other end by the pass. Just so it's a very you know, like they do it together because you know it's they all are from

the community. They have grown up. You know, this has been the life for you know, seventy five years, hundred years, you know, like as long you know, like as some of them can remember. So you know, like there is this community feeling because they understand that if nobody is there for them. You know, they have to make the best of you know, like whatever they have. That's how you know, like it's working there, she says, when visiting Macora Patan, you really see how this may may divide

affects these people. Someone came there, measured the land and fenced it off. But the land they fenced off where some people's livelihood. Right, they've fenced it off without you know, paying heat to the fact that there is a furious river that flows by, that keeps on changing course, that floods a lot, and that you know, these communities would be totally cut off from the mainland. They created a border.

They separated this community, you know, from the mainland from the Indian mainland, and didn't even provide them with the bridge. You know, a simple bridge can change the fortunes of this community. A simple bridge. You know, if you think about this five hamlets, there are people that they have lives, they have stories, they have lived lives. They have seen you know, the India Pakistan partition. They've seen India getting independent.

They have had full lives. They have you know, lived, they have loved, they have lost, they have lost loved once because they didn't have a bridge. You know, women have died at childbirth because you know, they could not be taken to the hospital. And these are real stories, these are real people. Their stories should matter. Their stories should matter all of us, but their story should matter to our governments. In a world where we are boasting

off immense technological you know, like innovation and advancement. This is the saddest story. The saddest story always belongs to human beings. The residents were tired of being abandoned, so they took a stand for the first time. You know, they have boycotted the elections, local elections. That's a huge thing because in India and probably in every you know,

like developing nation or even developed nation. You know, policy is determined by the vote, vote back right, and if people are in a boycotting elections, that's a short way to get the retention. There has been a regime change in Punjab as well. You know, many ministers have visited that area and promised that up bridge would be built by the end of this year and hopefully, you know,

we would have country. You take to the push a little bit me and saw me throughout story and hopefully you know, like there will be a bridge, you know, by the end of the year, No Londona and I are counting the days. The Pin Collective is a collaborative art space that seeks to bring together artists of all kinds across the border. It was founded by PhD candidate

of Nanda and Vera and filmmaker ash Revere Ora. The name not only comes from the combination of India and Pakistan, but also the word pinned in Punjabi means neighborhood or village. In twenty thirteen, while at a college to pay competition of the visited Pakistan and it was there that a plan began to form. At the time, I don't think I thought about the weight of that experience or how difficult it was. But once I was there, Um, it was strange because it felt like I was visiting home.

But obviously there were many ways in which it was different. There were all of these commonalities, whether cultural or social or linguistic, people with whom you know, I had so much in common. But at the same time I was aware that I had crossed the border and that I

had traveled very far from home in a certain sense. Um, what was most striking for me, though, was that when I returned, when I made that journey back across Vaga, I returned with all of these friendships and these new connections that I hadn't even imagined were possible, but also the realization that short of crossing that physical border, there weren't very many opportunity to use for young people like

myself to connect with young people across the border. And that sounds strange because as people who grow up on the Internet, who grew up digually connected and savvy, the assumption is that anybody that you want to speak to across the world is within reach, and that's really not true when it comes to India and Pakistan. When you think about the average Indian twenty something, they're not likely to have friends across the border, even though there are

so many reasons for those friendships spaces. She quickly wanted to remedy this obstacle and create a space for like minded people to join her, regardless of theographical distance on the subcontinent. Put the next and speak and address for what we have in common and the past that lies behind us, as well as the possibilities that lie ahead of us, and initially was one of the participating artists that I was keen to work with at the very

big ning of the project. But what I quickly realized was that we were very compatible in terms of our working styles and that he would be wonderful advision to the team. But also that with a project like this, more hands is always better, and the more space that is for collaboration and different viewpoints, the further the project can travel. Really, so I invited him to join and

very kindly agreed, And that was the stuff. Ash remembers listening to stories from his grandmother, which not only inspired his role in the Pin Collective, but also as a filmmaker.

For me, as a storytell over, I used to spend summer vacations with her growing up, and before going to sleep, she used to tell me stories of her time in Pakistan and what should remember the bit as a man look the story of when she worked on foot from Pakistan to India, when the when the partisher happened, and sort of the encounters she faced on the journey to India as well as what it was like to finding India. And she went on and on, and I with the

perfect audience for it. So I think those stories in particular inspired my interest in a lot of the work that ended up doing with the collective as well as UH in the field of documentary. General or of my work personally tries to extore the idea of home and belong in separation. I grew up listening to all of those stories from my grandmother, and around the time the pain Collector began, when we were also starting to realize that we were very quickly using the generation that experienced

the partition first hand. My grandmother included all I have is like memories of her telling the stories as drawing up, but I felt a sense of urgency wanting to crystallize some of those stories and passed them on Army wanted to more detail about their project. So the way the collective works is, the core that runs through all of the projects we do is one of collective work. So in the earlier editions of our project, we would pick a theme, so say home or resistance, and we would

leave that theme open to reputation. And the artists who participate in our projects from all sorts of disciplines, so we have dancers, photographers, writers, poets, and the idea is that they look at that central theme and try to understand how it resonates with them and bringing to the table a piece of work that they think best macapsulates what the means to them, and from there we begin a process of response where he charges through the piece

from the other side of the border and response to that. So what you have at the end is a collection of works and coverzation with from another participlants across orders that really allow you to look at the central idea to something a simple as home and talk about what that means in various registers and in various mediums. So, for instance, the home, we have ideas of the body and how we feel at home in the body. You

have ideas of lost forms and what that means. When you have the idea of my creation and travel, and so having a process where there is a sense of trust in the artists and open endedness to you know, how you operate, we find leads to end results that supplies us in all the best ways. Because it's the focus of your project is diversity and a range of

approaches and a range of expressions. Then having just one step central to it and then allowing that to go where it goes, we found organically leads to very interesting re selves. That's one mode that we've used in the various word just that we've run this process allowed the

collective to make more collaborative projects. So for instance, we have the project to which translates to how far, which essentially fed up one office from India and one office from Pakistan mid pandemic to consider what it means to recastly. This made this means politically because you know they're operating in a decline. It and believes of industry remind us, but also within the pandemic to think about what bustans meant there, and we created a series of games there

that responded to that theme. So the project, you know, evolves over time, but with each edition works remain. Central is this idea of collaboration and also this idea of letting it be artistic and letting it free participant pism like several previous guests are, and any feel like they

have a responsibility to get these stories out there. One of my takeaways from this has been in the India Pakistan context specifically, there's an inherited that there's a trauma that we've inherited and that's been passed on through us through a little in the third generation since the partition, uh, and we've we've had a very limited vocabulary to sort of help express what that drama is and help process it, given that, like i'ven you mentioned, there's been such limited

avenues for us to even acknowledge that drama likes to have conversations each other across the border in a way that might help process it, or might help navigate through the challenges of being who we are and the living through having lived through that demoil with the past, but also navigating to sort of very fraught political relationships that

our countries have. And what better way to do it, and what better doing is to try and sort of I get through those very complicated landscapes than to rely on story. I'm sure calls a few favorite memories from

the collective. A couple of my favorite moments of the last couple of years that have come from interactions at the Pin Collective A bit This one time, after my I filmed my interview with my grandmother, one of the artists from Pakistan sort of ammuciately identified with a lot of what she was fearing in my grandmother's story and related it to the story that her color told her growing up that was so touched by my grandmother and saw her grandmother and in my nanny in a way

that inspired her to create an artwork that that encapsulated my grandmother's journey from Pakistan to India, and that connection was able to break through sort of that one or one interaction between just me and Sanna Gratis, but also impacked and very meaningful ways. Uh. My grandmother then ended up recording a message for son. I am able to that connection, however brief in a way that I know my grandmother now has that artwork movement continues to the

data every morning. Um So I think like the importance of those connections, so it sort of really what's worth it. Another favorite moment of mine and the favorites of outcome of a lot of these intellactions. It's been two artists who worked on a scene together in anet up and

that scene end up being about their neighborhoods. This was part of the Kidney Do a project that acting was reflective the move and too through over the course of that project and describing their neighborhoods to each other and what it's like to live the cities that they live in.

People they do did not just form upon that lasted over the course of that project, but every couple of months I see them wishing each other on Instagram and it's a it's a resilient connection that it's stayed on beyond that particular interaction that they had posit the confines

of the PIN collectives. So I feel like being able to establish those long lasting relationships and then through the artwork we put out into the world, hopefully invoking conversations between the audiences and hope pay hopefully having them identify with a lot of the stories you're trying to tell a lot of fine friends something that resonates. I think it's the goal, and hopefully clergy a bit of that

of the last. Of course, the pair of stress that having images of partition outside of those from the papers and news stories is vital. They want to connect these stories in emotion and not a few quick bullet points. I couldn't help but ask what future they saw for India and Pakistan. It's a hard question. You're not wrong, um, I think it's a very difficult trajectory to charge to

try to understand where we go from here. On a personal level, I think, UM, I have a lot of hope when it comes to, for instance, other people, you wait, people doing incredible work across the border, whether documentary or artistic. There's a real sense, I think, both in India and Pakistan that what we have in common is is worth preserving.

I think art and the personal is where I see most space for connection, simply because and I'm a going Unshire, because there's room for depth, and there's room for accessibility for the personal, for understanding, for complication, a lot of which is a rays. When it comes to political conversation, I think the culture of artul countries is likely to be really is two people a lot of conference, just because the political is hard to charge and it's hard

to control. I think for a very long time victims or survivors of partisans have had typicular relationships with that experience, but a lot of love and a lot of fondness and a deep connection with where they came from, something that's not always acknowledged when we think about how differently and as a political concept for about it is a difficult concept. Um. I think our identities spent far beyond

geographical boundaries, and we'll continue to do so. And I hope honestly that projects like our own continue to multiply so that it's not exceptional for people. And I decided the border to be speaking, it's not exceptional or projects that cars to be connecting people because that's been knowing. So that's the peple that I hope for. Empathy the skill I think every person needs to possess. We shouldn't ignore events happening in our backyard or other places because

we think it has nothing to do with us. This idea of an ease when it comes to the other isn't specific to India and Pakistan. Many countries do not want citizens from other countries that don't look like them. For example, the treatment of Syrian refugees differed immensely from Ukrainian refugees. There has been a rapid rise of nationalism among many countries, including the UK and the United States.

Children are still being separated from their families, Hateful legislation continues to be created to erase marginalized communities, and there are large amounts of misinformation when it comes to a variety of topics like elections and immigration policy. In order to have empathy, we need to go beyond sixty two TV clips or breaking news articles and learn about these

issues more deeply. There is no one piece of material that can encompass an entire major historical event and every detail that comes with it, whether it is a film, book, or podcast. As a creator, my goal with this show is to highlight Partition in relation to memories, lesser known stories, and it's continuing effects after seventy five years, but there is so much more to discover. I encourage everyone to look into the numerous examples mentioned and to continue your

journey with Partition. Read one of the books we quoted from, look at the Partition archive and watch other experiences, or visit pretheca's art installations online or in person. You can find a list of all of our sources linked in the show notes. Look into your family's history and have a chat with your relatives. If partition is something that you didn't know much about, ask yourself what else you may not know. Share your understanding and realizations with others.

There is no highline on learning or changing our perspectives when we obtain new information. The simple willingness of wanting to investigate stories and histories outside of what we already know is incredibly powerful. I am eternally grateful to you for listening, thank you for giving me your time and attention these past ten weeks, and I sincerely hope I'll be back soon with more underrepresented stories. Until we meet again,

I'm Nahasis and this is Partition. Partition was developed as a part of the Next Up initiative created by Anna Hosnier, Joel Monique and Seni A median. Partition is produced by Anna Hosnier, Tricia Mukerjee and Becca Ramos. It is edited by Rory Gagan, with the original score composed by Mark Hadley. The in