What do we actually Know about J. Edgar Hoover?

pretty amazing to see some of those old clips. Well, in preparation for today's episode, I was reading this twenty one page report and this thing was filed by the FBI back in nineteen seventy one because apparently they were not happy that the show had been making fun of their untouchable director, you know, the j Edgar Hoover. And I'd actually never looked at this report before, but it's

actually publicly available online now. And I remember we printed a story about this in Mental Flaws a while back. You remember this, So I don't remember the Mentalphi story, but I do know that the FBI was mad about the show's actors pretending that they were like talking to Hoover through this bugged potted plant. Yeah, that was one of them. And there were a few other sketches, but my favorite is how ticked off they got it? What now seems like the most harmless joke. In fact, it

was actually a knock knock joke. Are you ready to hear this? I mean, you know I'm always ready for a knock knock joke? Great, all right, here goes then knock knock? Who's there? Hoover? Hoover? Who Hoover heard of a seventy six year old policeman? That's it? Yeah, and that for some reason has really ticked them off. And in the report that's dumb joke, it's referred to as vicious.

I mean, not only is it like a super mild joke, it barely feels like a joke, I know, but the fact that it spawned a twenty one page report is just baffling. And if there's one thing we know, it's that you didn't mess with j Edgar Hoover. So today we're going to take a look back at how Hoover rose to power, how we managed to expand that power over several decades, and what that's meant for our country's evolving relationship to the agency. So let's get started, ye AI.

Their podcast listeners, Welcome to Part Time Genius. I'm Will Pearson and as always I'm joined by my good friend Mangesh Ticketer and on the other side of the soundproof glass showing off his favorite vintage j Edgar Hoover buttons. That's our friend and producer Tristan McNeil. Now, I do want to be clear these are anti Hoover buttons from the look of them. At least you've got what there's one that says replaced j Edgar Hoover. He's got another one that says j Edgar Hoover is listening to you.

And I actually can't make out that what you're closer to a mango. What does that yellow one say? Yeah, it says j Edgar Hoover sleeps with a Nightlight to oh Burn, I know it's probably my favorite, but Tristan was actually telling me about these earlier, and apparently they're all from the Vietnam were era when Hoover's abuses of

power were first coming to light Well. Sleeps with a Nightlight is definitely one of the tamer accusations leveled at who were over the years, and after looking into the history for today's show, it's easy to understand why he remains such a controversial figure even today, from playing fast and loose with civil liberties to collecting secret files on innocent people. There's no question that Hoover's five decade reign as FBI director came with some heavy costs for the

nation as a whole. Yet at the same time, it's also clear that Hoover did a great deal of good for his country, particularly during the early years of his tenure, when he helped pioneer many new crime fighting measures. They're still being used today, and these are things like fingerprint files and investing in crime labs. So with that dichonomy in mind, we're going to take a closer look at the man behind the controversy and try to get a better sense of both the good and the bad of

Hoover's lifelong reign. Yeah, and I think you hit the nail on the head when you said lifelong, because you know, he became director of the Bureau of Investigation way back in four when he was just twenty nine years old, and then when the Bureau reorganized and added federal to its title, this was a nine five. Hoover stayed on

as director for an amazing forty eight more years. And you know, just to put that run in perspective, keep in mind that even with lifetime appointments, the longest serving Supreme Court justice only lasted thirty six years. Yeah, and you know, when you think about it, that kind of career dedication, it did come at a steep price for him, because you know, by most historians accounts, the man really

didn't have much of a private life. He never married or had children, didn't have any notable hobbies or pastimes, and there aren't many personal stories from his adult years to shed life on who he was outside of the office. And you know, usually it'd be easy to brush this off.

It's just saying it's typical for a workaholic. And some historians suggest Hoover's lack of a private life was by design, though, And I mean, for a guy whose life mission involved collecting dirt on anyone and everyone, it does make sense that he would have wanted his own life to be as dirt free as possible. Right, But of course we know that didn't stop people from cooking up all kinds of scandals and conspiracy theories about him anyway. And well,

I'm sure we'll get to those later. For now, I do want to go back to Hoover's early years because that's really our best chance to get a sense of his personal life and who he was. Yeah, okay, I'm done with that, but you're probably gonna have to do the heavy lifting on this one, because I'm gonna share with you the two facts I learned about his early life. One he was born in Washington, D c. In eight and two he apparently had a bad stutter. That's all I got. I hope you've got more than that. It

doesn't feel like you really tried there. It is a start. So Hoover actually grew up just a few blocks from Capitol Hill, and he did, to your point, have a stuttering problem. You know, he joins this long list of famous people who stuttered. His kids, Joe Biden's on this list, Winston Churchill, Moses was apparently a stutter. Um Marilyn Monroe apparently her her breathy way of talking was just a way to slow down her speech, so she didn't stutter.

But Hoover actually did the opposite. He competentated by talking really quickly. Ain't taught himself to talk super fast, and in fact, he got so adept at talking that he joined the debate team in high school, where he was known for spreading and using his cool, relentless logic, which I guess sounds impressive until you realize he was arguing against stuff like giving women the right to vote. You know,

I'm curious, though, what about Hoover's home life. Was he close with his family or was he always more or less aloof Yeah, so, Hoover did have two older siblings, He had a brother and a sister, but he was probably closest to his mother, and supposedly she was the family's moral center and also the main disciplinarian. And given those characteristics, I guess it makes sense that JEdgar Hoover

would have gravitated most to her. I mean, the two of them stayed super close all through Hoover's life, and they even lived together right up until her death. She passed when Hoover was apparently forty three years old. And so what about his dad? Well, Hoover's dad was this low level government worker, which which is why they lived so close to Capitol Hill, And unfortunately, he began to suffer from a mental illness when Hoover was young, which put a lot of pressure on his son and also

created something of a riff between them. And as one of Hoover's cousins put it, Hoover couldn't really tolerate that fact. He couldn't tolerate anything that was imperfect. It's not exactly the warmest way to deal with the loved one's illness. But all right, So that this, this makes Hoover the breadwinner of his family at this point. So does he go straight into law enforcement or what does he do next? Now, Hoover's first foray into public service was actually as a

messenger at the Library of Congress. So he took the gig in nineteen thirteen when he started attending college as a law student. And you know, he's the successful upstart. He gradually rose through the ranks over there for the next four years. Then, once Hoover passed the bar examp, he actually quit the library job, and the very next day he took an entry level position as a clerk at the Justice Department. But his time working at the library deeply influenced Hoover, and, as he later wrote, the

job trained me on the value of collating material. He gave me an excellent foundation for my work in the FBI, where it's been necessary to collate information and evidence. Huh. You know, I was actually reading about some of the innovations Hoover made at the FBI, and one of them was actually the addition of cross referencing to the agency's filing system, So you can kind of see where he

got that idea exactly. But as formative as that first job was, Hoover really started to come into his own at the d o J. And in fact, just two years after being hired as a clerk, Hoover had impressed his superior so much that he was promoted to head of the Bureau of Investigations General Intelligence Division. And at this point, the US had entered World War One, so Hoover's job was largely to gather intelligence on radical groups

within the country. All right, So this is the part that I feel like we learned about in history class, because this this is the red scare that we're talking about now, right, Yeah, And and specifically, there was this series of anarchist bombings in the US in nine and one of them damaged the home of the Attorney General

at the time, this guy, Mitchell Palmer. So in retaliation, Palmer had the General Intelligence Division carry out these raids to arrest people suspected of being radicals, and over the course of the next two years, these Palmer rays resulted in, like the rest of I want to say, thousands of cused communists and anarchists, and several hundred of these people were actually deported. Now were these raids legal. It sounds like Hoover had authorization from his boss to conduct them.

But but did they have this big stack of search warrants or anything like that. No. I mean that the raids were definitely illegal, and there were other problems too. So for one thing, most of the accused turned out to be innocent, and many of the confessions that were given were actually highly questionable. They seemed coorced. But luckily for Hoover, all of that backlash over this abusive power fell on Palmer, who was eventually forced to resign, and

Hoover meanwhile came away on scathes. But he did learn a lesson from this, like he realized from watching the fallout that you want to stay on the good side of the politically powerful. When it seems like he took that lesson to heart, actually read that even though Hoover had about six hundred files on U. S. Senators and

congressmen by the time of his death. The FBI never formally investigated or charged a member of Congress while Hoover was in charge of it, rather than making enemies or drawing attention to himself, who were just quietly collected dirt on these guys in case he needed a favor from them down the line. But that's not to say that

Hoover stayed off the public's radar completely. In fact, I'd say the other big takeaway he had from the Palmer raids was the importance of protecting your agency's image definitely. And after Palmer resigned, Whover was quickly promoted to assistant director of the Bureau of Investigation and then to director just a few years later. And you know, whoever had been gunning for this position for a while, and it just wasn't what it was cracked up to be at first.

You know, the main problem was what you just mentioned. So the agency was this pr nightmare. It had been racked by scandal in recent years. The public didn't actually place that much trust in the people working there, and in fact, agents weren't even allowed to carry guns or make arrest until which really shows you how little trust

the public had in them. Yeah, and from what I gather, Whover really cleaned house when he took over there, Like he fired everyone he considered to be political appointees or just unqualified for the job. He instituted the strict policy of background checks, interviews, physical tests for any new applicants, and this kind of rigor was applied to everything, not

just hiring. There were some pretty weird rules he had around there, like, for instance, Hoover even forbade his agents from drinking coffee at work after eight fifteen in the morning. Wait why, I don't know exactly, but I imagine it was some sort of judgment on people needing these stimulants that late in the work day after eight fifteen is late. I guess weak agents, I guess so. At any rate, Hoover whipped the bureau and the shape and Congress began

to take notice. They increased the agency's funding, which allowed Hoover to develop the first crime lab for gathering and analyzing evidence. And then, in nineteen thirty five, and pressed with what Hoover had accomplished and his time as director, Congress decided to make the Bureau of full fledged federal agency and keep Hoover as its director. And you know now that they're finally allowed to carry guns and make arrest. The FBI actually turned its attention from these radical communist

groups to armed gangsters. So they're going after these folk heros, pretty Boy Floyd and baby Face Nelson and this obviously helped the agency's public perception when Hoover's cool, collected agents started taking down these thugs. Yeah, you know, and Hoover and his FBI agents were pretty much rock stars by this point. In fact, I saw this old pole from nineteen thirty six. There were eleven thousand American schoolboys who were asked to vote on who they considered the most

popular man in the country. And this is just mind boggling to me. So the president at the time was FDR. He managed to land and I think it was like seventh place, but the FBI director he came in second second place. I don't even know how many people in the US, how many school kids especially could name the FBI director at this point. It's just unbelievable. Yeah, it's super weird, but it does make me wonder who's in

that top spot. None other than Robert Ripley, you know, the creator of Ripley's Believe it or not, I mean that feels hard to believe. Well, times have definitely changed, but you know, I do want to talk a little bit more about the FBI's on pre sidented popularity and I think it really speaks to Hoover's skills as a PR man, which is ultimately what helped his agency weather the political storms in the next forty year or so years. Well, that sounds good to me, but first we should take

a quick break. You're listening to part Time Genius and we're talking about the life and times of j Edgar Hoover. All right, mango, So I want to talk about Hoover's mastery of public relations because in a lot of ways, he was really the first to bring Madison Avenue PR techniques to Washington. And to give you an idea of what I mean by this, I want to share this quote from Mark am Bender, who is the author of a book called Deep State Inside the Government Secrecy Industry.

So am Bender writes, quote, one of Hoover's first orders of business after taking the helm at the newly meanted FBI was to build an impenetrable shield of public support. He knew that such support would be essential to surviving the hostile political waters of Washington, but his efforts went far beyond a few press releases. He encouraged the creation

of pulp magazines, bubblegum cards, and comics. Likewise, he worked with Hollywood to produce films about gmen like Public Enemies, Wife Show Them No Mercy, and the FBI story one film. Public Enemy Number One even put Hoover in its ad campaign. I mean, that's ridiculous when you think about Yeah, but the common image that we have today of FBI special agents, you know, you think the dark suits, the neck ties, all that actually comes from these efforts, and it's endured

for you know, you think about it. Now, we're talking about eighty years or so, and so it's no wonder that all these school boys were looking up to him. Yeah, I mean, it is amazing to think what a pr genius he was. And I I did read up a bit on Hoover's Hollywood connections, and it's crazy to think how much sway the studios gave him. He even had

final say on which actors could be cast. So for Public Enemy, whoever interviewed Jimmy Stewart beforehand and then had to give his approval before the studio could use them. I mean, that's especially funny because apparently Hoover considered the movie It's a Wonderful Life to be communist propaganda. I've read that before, but it's still just so weird. And that was right after the movie was released in ninety

I mean, that's super strange. And you know, Whover clearly like Jimmy Stewart, but the main character in that movie is the selfless banker in a small town. It's hard to imagine being against it for being communist, right, Well, that's true, but the villain of the film, Mr Potter, he was also a banker. And apparently that was enough for the FBI to conclude that the movie quote deliberately maligned the upper class. And it's kind of funny to

read these quotes at this point. And they must have taken this charge pretty seriously too, because in ninety seven, the House on American Activities Committee actually held a hearing about this and there was a film critic there. His name was John Charles Moffatt, and he was trying to defend the movie in court. And here's what he said. He said, I think Mr. Opper's picture, that it had a banker as a villain, could not be properly called a communist picture. It showed that the power of money

can be used oppressively and it can be used benevolently. Now, sadly, Moffitt's defense fell on deaf ears because the FBI didn't remove the film from its list of suspected propaganda until nineteen fifty six. I mean, it's crazy to think the FBI once blacklisted what's essentially the most wholesome holiday movie

of all time. I guess that in a way, like who never really gave up on that work that he did with Palmer, Like he continued monitoring anyone or anything they saw his immoral or unpatriotic or suspect in any way, especially communist. Well that's true. And actually one high profile holdover from those Red Scare days was none other than Charlie Chaplin. Hoover had worried about the British actors rising popularity. He even tried to have him deported at one point,

that he could never make it really stick. Then then some thirty odd years later, thirty years later, when Chaplin left the country to promote his latest movie. Hoover seized his chance and worked quickly with the I N S to bar the entertainer from returning to the States. I mean, think about that. He was holding this over him, really hold a garage clearly. Yeah, and the plan worked too. So Chaplin decided to stay in Europe and he didn't come back to the U S until it was time.

I guess this was in I think nineteen seventy two. He came back to pick up an honorary oscar that he'd been awarded. I mean, that's just ridiculous. But you know, I still think whover strangest target with that old Louis Louis song that the King's been popularized in the early sixties, And once that song became a hit, all these rumors circulated that contained a secret message and had dirty words if you played it backwards or at a slower speed.

And you know that there are tons of rumors like this at the time, I mean famously with the Beatles and and other bands, but uh, there never seemed to be much to them really. Of course, you could never convince the FBI of and especially after the entire state of Indiana Ben Louis Louis from the radio in nineteen four.

That's when the FBI launched this massive investigation to determine whether or not they were really hidden obscenities buried in that song, because you know, if there had been, that would have violated this Federal Code against the distribution of obscene material toive minors. This is so strange, but I will admit I love the idea of Hoover and his g men just hunched over these record players like straining to find these secret messages, slowing down this stupid song.

But you know, I'm assuming they never found anything, right, Yeah, I mean, of course they didn't, but you know, it wasn't for lack of trying. Agents actually listened to the song at every speed imaginable, and they attended Kingsman shows and interviewed the band members and even studied the statements of teenagers who claimed to have cracked the song's codes.

But alas, after an exhaustive thirty months thirty months they spent on this for an investigation, the FBI was forced to concede it had been a waste of time, and that was like a great you some money and records, but all they had to show for all their efforts was some wildly off based transcriptions, and lucky for you and me, those are now declassified documents that anyone can read. So really, Yeah, so these are some of the actual lyrics from Louis Louis that I'm going to read to you.

On the ship, I dreamed, she there, I smell the rose in her hair. And after thirty months, this is what Hoover's agents thought that line was. And on that chair I lay her there, I felt my boner in her hair. She just made that. Yeah, that's what it actually says, is that terrible declassified government documents. I feel like it needs to be classified again, I think so. I mean I like that they were wildly grasping to

figure out what this was. That I do guess that after listening to the same track for what did you say, thirty months? I can imagine that you'd start hearing things after that. Yeah. And while we've mostly talked about the sillier side of Hoover's paranoia and these surveillance tactics, I do want to make sure we talked about the serious consequences of these power abuses, because you don't want those

loss in the shuffle. You know, throughout the fifties and the sixties, Hoover's lists of terrorists and spies and communist sympathizers was expanded to include anyone who's like an anti war protester or civil rights leader or civil rights activist. I mean, Hoover saw all these people as subversives, and he saw them as a threat to the stability of the American government, which is why he resorted to break ins and wire taps and legal bugs. It was all

a means to cripple their influence. Yeah, and Hoover's treatment of Martin Luther King Jr. Was especially chilling to me, and I actually kind of hate reading about this. But Whover suspected him of communist leaning, so he ordered King's bedroom bugged, and then he even sent a copy of the recordings to King and his wife. But probably the worst part of that was the tape was accompanied by this anonymous letter that actually encouraged King to bits suicide.

It says, King, look into your heart. The American people would know you for what you are, an evil, abnormal beast. There is only one way out for you. You better take it before you're filthy, abnormal, fraudulent self is bared to the nation. I mean, I don't even know how you come up with those kinds of words. It's just

it's it's terrible. But you know, you figure anonymous or not, the King's had to know these tapes were from the FBI, and because by this point where it had gotten out about Hoover's practices, and I just would think it would be fairly easy to guess on this one. Yeah, I mean, it is funny. You watched like talk shows like The View or other things, and and people have such polarized opinions of Hoover. You know, some people almost regard him

as like an ethical and and saint like character. And and on the other hand, you hear about these abuses to someone like Martin Luther King, and and it's just hard to picture this person as anything but gray. And um, you know, when you put yourself in Martin Luther King's shoes too, it's hard to imagine what it would have felt like to have your own country, like your own government, gunning for you like that, and you know there's absolutely

nothing you can do about it, right, It's terrifying. I've actually heard that theory that Hoover was worried King might go communist. But but there's this biographer, um, this writer named Richard Hack who actually subscribed to a totally different theory, and he thinks that Hoover felt insulted because King had ignored a call from him during the early days of the Civil Rights movement. And you know, as we talked

about earlier, UM, Hoover could obviously hold a grudge. But according to Hack, quote from that one unanswered phone call, for the rest of King's life, he did not have a free moment from the specter of j Edgar Hoover. Ever, he tapped him, he followed him. In some sense, Hoover was jealous of MLK. He had a wife, he had a family, he had authority, he had respect, he had everything, and Hoover was jealous. I mean, it's an interesting take,

and I hadn't heard that before. But you know, since we're starting to theorize a bit about Hoover's mo motives, I feel like we got to keep the ball rolling and look at some of the other theories surrounding his life and his work. Definitely, and of course there are a ton of juicy rumors out there about someone as controversial as Hoover, and I bet some folks will be shocked to learn just how a few of them really hold water. But before we played detective ourselves, we should

take another quick break, okay, Mango. So earlier we talked about how Hoover was able to sort of shape the image of the FBI using pop culture and also just by virtue of the bureau's more patriotic operations. You think about rooting out Communist spies and Nazi saboteurs, for instance, But I got the sense while researching that Hoover was

also a master craftsman of his own image. Did you get that feeling too, Yeah, I mean it kind of goes back to that idea of who were not having a private life, and that was all by design, Like he was able to foster this air of mystery for himself that really kept people guessing about his true intentions and what he might be up to. And this was

true of both in the office and at home. And while that certainly gave him a leg up in this political arena where no one was ever truly sure of what Hoover might have on them, it also made him the target of plenty of samary campaigns and conspiracy theories right, and probably the most famous of those is that Jagger Hoover was gay, that he liked to dress in women's clothes. And at first I thought these rumors caught on only after his death, but you can actually see little hints

of them forming back in the nineteen thirties. For instance, there was a magazine article back then that referred to Hoover's mincing gait and how it diplomated. A party had commented on Hoover's quote conspicuous perfume, and then decades later story started to surface about how someone had seen a photo of Hoover and an evening gown, or they've been invited to a secret party throne and everyone there was cross dressing. But none of these claims were ever substantiated,

and and really a few have even been debunked entirely. Yeah, So, the most compelling evidence I've seen of Hoover being gay was his relationship with Clyde Toulson, who was the second in command of the FBI for over forty years, and during that time, the pair definitely gave people a lot to talk about, like they were both lifelong bachelors. They wrote to work and dined together daily, they vacation together.

They sometimes wore matching suits to the office. Plus when uh, when Hoover died, he left most of his estate to Tulson, and at his funeral too, it was actually Toulson who collected the folded American flag that gets handed out by the government. But really that closeness is all there is to go on. Like, Hoover and Tolson were the epitome of professionalism by all accounts, so if there was anything

romantic between them, they kept it to themselves. And of course there are plenty of historians that point out that if the men were actually anything beyond just colleagues, they probably wouldn't have allowed themselves to be constantly seen together in public. Like Hoover was just way too discreet and

cautious for something like that. You know, it kind of reminds me of the case you hear about political science called non falsifiable hypothesis, which is basically when something is impossible to disprove because there isn't any proof for it one way or the other, so you just kind of

went up stuck forever in this state of uncertainty. Yeah, but more than that, none of it should really matter anyway, right, Like, I mean, times have changed so much since Hoover's heyday, so you know, of course being gay or or wearing women's clothing isn't as scandalous as it might have been back then. But even without the moral stigma attached talking about whether Hoover was or wasn't these things really just distracts from what we know about him for certain, which

is his work. Like there's so much to talk about their well, definitely, and it does seem ironic that so many of us are still wrapped up in a guessing game about the sexuality of a guy who made his name by spreading these unsubstantiated rumors about people. I mean, we really can't take him to task for that if we wind up doing the same kind of thing to him. Yeah,

I mean, I guess that's a good point. I am curious that how did Hoover's abuses of hour come out in the end, because obviously it wasn't any rumors or personal scandals that brought him down, so what was it? Well? I was curious about this too, because I've known for a while that it was mostly after Hoover's death, that a lot of these misdeeds came to light. But what I didn't know was that it was actually a group of burglars who got the ball rolling on that. And

that was back in March of nineteen seventy one. This was just a little over a year before Hoover actually died. Now, these burglars were were a group of peace demonstrators and they were hoping to spark a conversation about the FBI's un checked surveillance power. And so to do this, they decided to break into a small FBI office just outside Philadelphia, and they decided to steal as many of Jagger Hoover's secrets as they possibly could. I mean, this sounds remarkable, right, Like,

it's stunning that this happened. But how did these people pull it off? Well, part of it was that they picked the perfect night to pull this heist, because this was on March eighth, nineteen seventy one, and this was the night of the landmark fight of the century, you know, this was between Muhammad Ali and Joe Frasier. So while the burglars were busy prying open the door of the FBI office and snatching these files inside you had millions of Americans just glued to their TV set kind of

watching these updates on that fifteen round boxing match. That's really amazing. And this plan worked, Apparently they did. The burglars got away and more than enough evidence with them to prove that Hoover had been using the FBI to illegally spy on everyone from peace activists to civil rights leaders, movie stars, senators, and on and on. But you know, not long after the break in, the thieves sent this anonymous package to a Washington Post reporter named Betsy Medsker.

Now inside was a packet of incriminating secret documents, which naturally Betty wrote about and published in short order. But the best part was that the FBI never managed to catch these burglars. Despite Hoover putting more than two hundred agents on the case, no arrest were ever made, and the case was officially closed in nineteen seventy six, And just two years later, Congress passed the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, and it made it so that a warrant is needed

to monitor any private citizen. Well, I am glad that something good came from all of this, And still it's crazy to me that it took so long for someone to finally spill the beans on what who have been doing for like fifty years at that point, I mean, and all that time, you think that someone would have tried to find dirt on him sooner rather than just like gossiping that you know, he may or may not be gay. Actually, the FBI had been spying on its

own director for years by that point. There were special agents from the Washington Field office of the FBI that were regularly assigned to watch Hoover around in secret and and even monitor his house at night. And the operation had the name who watched which who was appropriate? Yeah, but it proved less than effective because of course, I mean, this is this is jed Or Hoover. He caught on quickly to the fact that he was being watched. Yeah, I mean, this just seem that coming right. I don't

think you can out snoop a professional snooper. But I don't know. That's the old thing. That is the old saying. We all know that one. But but I am curious, when it's all said and done, how do you think we should look back on whover? I mean, it's it's pretty obvious that school kids aren't going to rank him as highly as they did in the nineteen thirties, But

writing off his entire career doesn't seem right either. Yeah, I mean whover his name still adorns the building at the FBI headquarters, and I actually think that's a pretty apt metaphor for how to approach his legacy in general. Like, at one point the name was there as a sign of respect and a show of honor, but now people actually say it feels more like a warning of what

not to do. So, even though some members of Congress have pushed for the name to be removed, and you know, you can definitely understand why that is, there's this case for keeping it there as a reminder of both parts of his legacy. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. In fact, I read this article by a Hoover biographer named Kenneth Ackerman, and he had a similar take to what we're talking about here. So here's what he wrote.

Who relieves a bipolar legacy? For better or worse? He built the FBI into a modern national organization, stressing professionalism and scientific crime fighting. For most of his life, Americans considered him ma hero. He made the g Man brand so popular that at its height, it was harder to become an FBI agent than to be accepted to an Ivy League college. But he also stands as a reminder that forty eight years of power concentrated in one person

is a recipe for abuse. Alright, well, before we close the book on the cautionary tail that is j Edgar Hoover, I do think we should dish a little more dirt on him in today's fact off, although I'm not sure that either of us are going to be able to top Tristan's bombshell about Hoover's sleeping with a night light. But but, but let's give it a shot. So you started the show by talking about the FBI's irritation with laugh In and how Hoover really didn't seem to have

a sense of humor. And there's another good story along those lines, and it's about Mad Magazine, a magazine both

of us loved his kids. So apparently there was an issue from the mid fifties that are at the Bureau because it include the silly game about draft dodging, and the idea was that if you did well in the game, you were then invited to write a letter directly to Hoover requesting a membership card that would classify you as a full fledged draft dodger, and agents actually visited the Mad offices after this came out in New York City, and uh and William Gaines, the publisher and the legendary editor.

He ended up writing his own letter to the director, apologizing and promising never to make fun of Hoover again. And you know, of course he couldn't help himself, like he broke that promise a few years later when he started referring to Hoover as a vacuum cleaner, calling him

the Honorable j Edgar Electrolux. That's good, all right, well, speaking of comedy, of the many, many things Betty White has done in her incredible career, one of them was playing the role of some of the FBI's most wanted in a show that was called This Is Your FBI. The show was actually endorsed by Hoover himself, and it was really just dramatizations of the actual FBI cases. I'm not sure if this is on Netflix, but we need to look up the role she played back nine. The

episode was called The Larcenous Bride. I've got to see this. Yeah, that sounds great. So we've all seen this iconic photo of Elvis and Nixon together and Elvis's White House visit, But what many people might not remember is that Elvis was actually there to petition to become an undercover agent.

So it all letter to Nixon, Elvis wrote, quote, I've done an in depth study of drug abuse and communist brainwashing techniques, and I'm right in the middle of the whole thing where I can and will do the most good.

I mean, that's just such an outrageous statement. But it's also crazy to think that Elvis showed up for this like unannounced visit to the White House to see the President, and he was carrying two guns at the time, like one was for his own protection, the other was this gift, I guess for Nixon, And for some reason, the FBI was impressed enough that they gave him permits to carry a gun in every state. It's even more surprising when you consider that the FBI had this file on Elvis

of several hundred pages. But the incident actually helped to fuel the conspiracy theory that Elvis isn't dead, he's just gone undercover. Yeah, clearly, I mean, I get it, that's probably what happened. Well, six hundred pages does seem like a big file, but it's actually only a third as long as the eighteen hundred page file the FBI had on Einstein. I guess his German heritage was always concerning to the FBI, and they suspect that he might be

a German spy. And so when Einstein got involved in the Manhattan Project, and FBI reports stated in view of his radical background, the office would not recommend the employment of Dr Einstein on matters of secret nature without a very careful investigation, as it seems unlikely that amand of his background in such short time became a loyal American citizen. That's crazy. I mean, it is entertaining to read through

the publicly available files and celebrities. And another one was the Grateful Dead, which the FBI originally referred to by saying it would appear this is a rock group of some sort, which I agree with, and later that, uh, the LSD originates from Sam Francisco through a renowned rock group known as Grateful Dead. But apparently there's no real investigation that ever seemed to be carried out. Wow, so it all came out of the Grateful Dead all of

the beginning. Well, one person the FBI probably liked a lot was Colonel Sanders. He was a big fan of Hoover and even invited him to his birthday party one time. This, of course, you can find in Sanders FBI file. But unfortunately for the colonel, Hoover declined the invitation. I mean, I love to go to that party. Ain't no party like a Colonel Sanders party, I feel like I think so. Yeah. But there were some artists who were bold enough to

stand up to Hoover, like John Steinbeck was one. He wasn't a fan of being spied on, and in one letter to the Attorney General he wrote, do you suppose you could ask Edgar's boys to stop stepping on my heels? They think I am an enemy alien. It is getting tiresome. And you know, Hoover actually responded to this. He he wrote, I wish to advise that Steinbeck is not being and has never been investigated by the Bureau. And of course this didn't stop the FBI from continue to track Steinbeck's

actions for another fifteen years or so. Wow. You know, since Hoover's passing Congress has a ten year limit on being FBI director. Now, of course, Hoover served eight different presidents and had an insanely long tenure. But even then, he shouldn't have been allowed to keep the position for so long because the government used to have this mandatory retirement age of seventy But then LBJ lifted the restriction, you know, just for his pal Hoover. Well, speaking of that,

did you know Nixon once tried to fire Hoover. This was in nineteen seventy one, but he lost his nerve during the conversation and he accidentally increased Hoover's powers to expand the FBI's powers abroad. Instead. It sounds like a failed breakup or thenner or something. But well, here's you get engaged. Yes, whoops, all right, well here's what I love. Apparently Jagger Hoover made lots of notes in the margins of memos. I guess it was kind of his thing.

And once he was handed a memo with a really narrow margin, and he wrote, watched the borders in the side, but the age it's who got it totally misunderstood that he was talking about the page layout and instead started hounding Border Patrol for suspicious activities. That's really funny. I love that. And uh, while I normally would say you deserve the honor, I'd instead like to give it to Undercover Elvis, who's been working so hard on all our

behalf for so many years now. That just feels appropriate. Thank you, Undercover Elvis, and thank you guys for listening. If we've forgotten any great facts about Jack or whoever, we'd love to hear from you. Part Time Genius and How Stuff Works dot com. You can always call our fact hot line seven Fact Hotline that's one eight four four pt Genius, or hit us up on Facebook or Twitter. But thanks so much for listening, Thanks again for listening.

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