Welcome to the Parenting Roundabout podcast. I'm Terry Morrow.
And I'm Catherine Haileco.
Every Thursday, we're bringing you a library find, a pick from our archives, and a parenting or pop culture tidbit or two. Let's start with Catherine's library find of the.
Week, continuing with our recurring theme of everybody seems to be reading this book at some point I will read it.
Which doesn't sound like a glowing recommendation, right, But I read a book called West with Giraffes by Linda Rutledge.
This is one that people inside and outside the library had told me to read, and it is a lucky day book, which our library has and a lot of libraries do, where it's like new and or popular items that are you can't put them on hold, and it's a short return schedule, so that the idea is that when you walk into the library, there's a table of these items and it's your lucky day you can yes, exactly.
So anyway, incredible true story of two giraffes.
Yes, so it's a novel. It's a fictionalized story of these two giraffes that came you know, don't know how they were acquired we handwave over that part. But they arrived in the United States on a boat that survived hurricane on a ship, i should say, and then they were transported over land to San Diego to the San Diego.
Zoo, which so this is present day ish, No, this.
Is in the let's say the thirties, like okay, yeah, pre World War two, Okay, Like there.
Was a zoo in San Diego then, yeah.
I think it was fairly new. But also part of the story is that there was a woman running it, oh Ma, the zoo lady. She was referred to as Belle bal Benchley. So, you know, I always enjoy historical fiction, and this one. So it's the story of this young like teenager he's like seventeen, I think he turns eighteen during the course of the book, who has like left Oklahoma, you know, dust Bowl times, and his parents have died. He sort of ends up on the East Coast somewhere
working for his cousin. But you know, it's a it's not a good situation, and he just kind of like falls into being obsessed with these giraffes and ends up, through reasons and circumstances, driving this sort of modified box car across the country with these two giraffes in it.
Uh huh.
And it's just it's told from his perspective as a one hundred and five year old man recalling the story. So you know this really happened in terms of these giraffes, really did travel across country. I don't believe you know this, this character was necessarily the one that drove them.
What was the name of the character.
His name is Woody. His full name is Woodrow Wilson Nickel So Woody nickel Wite a name.
Yes that sounds like a name from the Gilded Age.
Yes, yes, so so. Yeah. I enjoyed it. I usually like historical fiction. It took me a little bit of time to get into it, I would say. And there's a lot of like hinting, you know, giving dropping these these little hints about what really happened back in Oklahoma before he left, and then who is it that he's
telling this story to. And there's some little bits of the present day of you know, him and the rest home and people like okay, honey, let's get you back to bed, you know situations, and he's like, I gotta finish this. I'm one hundred years old. He's like, I'm trying to write this down, leave me alone.
So uh so, yeah.
Interesting, it's h Yeah, I don't believe. I think I looked for an audiobook and did not find one, so.
Oh my gosh.
I know, I don't know how that happens.
Somebody could have had some fun narrating that to the Do we get the giraffe's point of view on anything or it's just all no interacting with giraffes?
Yeah, I mean we get we we see the giraffes behavior and we we can imply some infer some things from that, but we don't get you know, the actual pov of the of the giraffes.
Well, I'll just add because I have I am familiar with the San Diego Zoo, having grown up in California, southern California, but I did not know its history. It has. It started in nineteen sixteen with a collection of animals left over from the nineteen fifteen Panama California exposition. So a pioneer in the concept of open air cageless exhibits that we create natural animal habit habitats. I'm sure the giraffes were happy about that. They wouldn't have been wanted
to be in cages. I'd have to be a very total cage. So I did not know that. That's interesting.
I kind of now I want to hear more about the zoo Lady Bell.
Yeah, okay, well that sounds interesting. Grab it at your library. Even though it might be in.
Short, it might be lucky today it's it's a couple of years old, so it may be getting easier to find.
There's a kindle edition, I see, yes, but no audiobook. That is weird. I'm going to look on audible right now. Well, we don't speak. Let's see. When's it West with Giraffes. I'm always surprised when there's like a book that's not on audible, because there seem to be so many, and some of them seem so not like who cares about this? But I guess it's part of the West with Giraffes. It is on audible.
It is okay, it's just not I looked for it.
Operated by Danny Campbell. Okay, so there you go. I can get it on a audiobook if you are too lazy to read with your eyeballs, or your eyeballs are not eyeballs. Don't cooperate as in my case. Yes, my eyeballs enjoy being closed while I listen to stuff with my ear holes. I do miss. I do miss reading words that I can then go back and look at easily without having to rewind to the place where it was,
so that it is a different experience. Yes, moving on to my random recommendation, I have a book for a random recommendation this week, and it's one in which the narration, the work of the narrator really added to the experience. The book I listened.
To was.
Life's Work by David Milch. I have mentioned that before. I mentioned that I was in the progress of reading it. I have finally finished reading it, and I enjoyed it very much. Let me find the name of the narrator. The the recording started with I think the pro the introduction, it was probably a prologue, was actually read by David Milch, who has Alzheimer's and is fading, and you could hear I mean, there's no way he could narrate himself. He's
obviously having a very hard time. But the narrator, I think, did a really good job of sounding enough like him that you felt like it was him. Reading it. It was the same as a book I read a while ago and talked about here by Judy Dench, where Judy Dench read the prologu or whatever that part of the book was. And then a younger person took over did an incredible job of sounding like her, so that throughout the experience was this is this person reading about their life.
And then you stop and you realize, no, wait, yeah, this is a very good actress imitating that person. And I'm going to find the name of the person who narrated the Milch book because he did a very good job. Sounded a little bit like Mark Marrin, but I think Milch that had a milchiness to him voice that time. I felt like it was like it was him, and just very read the things, very in the spirit with which they were written in a way that was meaningful. I thought, let me just get that up so I
can because I want to credit this dude. Michael Harney is the one who did the most of the narration. And I just read a review of the book that I agree with, which said it's less about and then I did this show and here are some juicy details about this show. And then I wrote that show, and here are some juicy details about that show. It was more about the creative process, about the how you know, a little bit of the mechanics of television writing, and a lot about his demons and the things he did
in his life. That that if you've watched John from Cincinnati, which is my favorite one of his things, me and a couple of other people, Yeah, the themes are there.
Yeah.
So I think he's best known probably for Deadwood and YPD Blue. Yeah, he's one of his last things was Luck, which was about horse racing and some horses died and so I got shut down. But so he talks about each of the shows he's done some but it's more about this is what was going on in his life, and this is how he came to do this particular show. And so you get a lot of the backstage negotiations with networks, You get a lot of the sort of what it does to you to have this sort of
creative job. And you know, he had problems with gambling, he had problems with substances and some mental health issues. So he's a fascinating person. Channeled these problems in his life into amazing art, and that's I was very interested to hear about it. I was more interested to hear about his life than I was about Oh and then
David Carusa did this, so it was good. I would recommend it, especially for anybody who's in you know, has been in creative fields in their life, and anybody who's enjoyed the art that this man has made, and also anybody who just really enjoys a well read audio. The reading is very, very good. It started out I was like, oh, is he just trying to do an invitation? But he just as it went through, I just my brain completely accepted that this was from reading about just the way
he did the vocal part of it. Just very impressive. Good book, very highly recommended. Interesting, interesting individual, well written book, well done, narration, and worth immersing oneself in, especially if you have one of his properties that you are particularly passionate about. Yeah, you're not going to get behind the scenes extravaganza on it, but you will have some insight as to how it came to be and what some of the experiences of the people involved with it were.
So my next book that I am moving on to is actually currently as we speak, the number one number one on the New York Times Nonfiction bestseller list, which is Butler by Selena Zito. I will not be talking about it on this podcast because we don't talk about politics, but so far I'm in it a little bit. And if you think it was this is the sort of thing you will like, you will like it. It's interesting,
it's interesting. I've liked her, she wrote a book. Her previous book, written with Brad Todd, Who's a Polster, is The Great Revolt, and I enjoyed reading that too, So I've been kind of interested in her since then and interested in this book, and apparently lots of other people are too. But possibly the less said about the subject matter the better. So all right, if that intrigues you, go look it up and then you will either either be interested or mad at me.
Is that an iffy etiquette question? Do I recommend this book?
That is an iff He had a quick question. How does one recommend a book without saying, oh, by the way, it's about something that will make half of the people listening to this head explodes. So it is not in fact about a butler and the guilded Age, but.
That's going back to the Gilded Age and the audiobook narration the one who played I think I've talked about this before, but the the one who plays the butler on the Van Ryan side. Yeah one, I'm ninety nine percent short. Narrated an audiobook that I listened to with my son.
Oh, like he would be very good.
Years and years ago. Like I can't remember the name of the book. It has something to do with a lion.
Oh, I can see that, and yeah, have you looked up his name? And audio bade me to like figure that out. What is the actor's name? Let's i'll find out, Simon Simon Jones.
I wonder if he do. They give you audio books in.
Audiobooks narrated by Simon Jones. Okay, there's ninety five results.
Wow. Then I guess he was the.
One pass on the uh pasting this into the script.
Okay, oh, lion boy. There it is lion boy.
Okay. Yeah, see look at that.
I still hear. I mean, it's amazing, like it was years for sure, And you know it's amazing that you can recognize a person's voice. Yeah at that from that long ago.
Its a good voice. Now he has a.
Distinctive yes, So anyway, we should move on.
Anyway, moving on What do we have from the archive this week?
Yes, we are. We have an episode from twenty nineteen and when we were talking about social interactions and if the etiquette. You know, what have we taught our kids? What have we failed to teach our kids?
Now?
All of that? Yikes? And I feel a little bit of this right now because my my adult child is living with her boyfriend's family.
And yeah, you know, there's lots of room for like, oh did I did I not tell you not to do this or that?
Or you know, I mean I feel that she. I do hope that she. I mean I don't. It's not something I worry about constantly, but it's still like oh oh no.
Like yeah, yeah, oh I would be worried about that too, absolutely. And also I would be judging if somebody else's child did not do those things. So your fears are well found me, right right, Yeah, it's your mother never taught her that. Ever, I would totally be blaming the mom.
I'm not the kid, oh yeah, for sure.
Yeah, that's why it's not a dad.
No, No, it's always the mom.
Yeah. It's hard to know what's going to be important, and when you have kids who won't necessarily absorb information. What do you need to make a big deal about? And then when you make a big deal about it, then they make a big deal about it when it's there's many points of etiquette that are supposed to be subtle. Yes, yes, but you have to know them, so to get the kids to know them, you have to be not subtle. But then they are not subtle, and then you look
stupid either way. Regardless of what happens, mom looks bad. Of course, nobody ever blames the kid. Where are the parents? Why didn't their mother tell them? So it's like it's it's hard to know what to make a big deal about and what to just hope they're never in a situation where.
They have right and things change like you.
Know, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Probably many things that you know weren't you know, they just change over time, and you know, are you You can't flash forward like you're on loss figure it out?
You can flash back though, and relive the time you did the wrong thing over and over again.
That is true.
Somebody, please hit me in the head with the baseball fan so I can go someplace else.
Now, let me give me, as he says, give me another chance.
Yeah, I feel like this is a particularly treacherous time because there are a lot of different people expecting a lot of different things. And I live in fear of one of my kids, both of whom work in jobs where they interact with the public, one of my kids calling somebody sir who does not consider themselves a sir or ma'am. Likewise, I'm constantly worried about one of them ending up splashed across social media as this horrible person who called me the wrong thing. And I don't know
how to tell them not to do that. What do we because because there isn't a gender, yeah, there's there's not a neutral term of respect. And for many many people, calling them mam or sir would be a positive thing. People like that, it's respectful. But for the wrong person, it's going to be a disaster. So I can't tell them not to do it. I can't tell them to do it. I can't say, please, ask to see their driver's license and see what gender they have put down
and then call them by that. You know, it's just like, how do you how do you navigate that? That's a that's a big if the etiquette issue at the moment, Yeah, at least if you're if your kids are going to be interacting with the general public and people they don't know and just trying to get through a work day. Here are your fries individual.
Right insert respectful title here exactly.
Yeah, I'll put those in your card for you person.
Right, and then you just like, like, you just leave it out, and then that doesn't seem right.
Yeah, and then the people who expect to hear it will be mad at you. Right, So you're just kind of screwed no matter what.
Yeah, you just they're the age of your mother.
You can probably go with that's right. If it's because younger people don't don't want to be man or don't want to be mam, I mean maybe sir, they don't care about But yeah, lady and dude, do we call them bro?
Let's just do bro?
Bro? Yeah, bruh you but don't but don't call the older guy brou because they they will complain to your manager. I just I feel like the only answer to this is to get them out of public facing jobs. Well, this is just too complicated. No more, No more fast food and parking lot work for you, right, I you know, maybe there'll be a simpler time coming up, but right now it's too fraud. Just home. Yeah, we'll sign we'll sign you up for you know, unemployment. It'll be fine,
all right, Ay, yeah, yeah, I do. You know. One of the things that was an if the etiquette issue for me and I might have mentioned this the last time we talked about it is I grew up in California, where I don't think that we have, at least in the circles, in the Protestant circles I was running in.
I don't think we have the whole death structure they have here in Italian New Jersey circles, which is like a visitation here, then another visitation, then a third visitation, and then everybody goes to the cemetery, and then we bury the person, and then we have a party. There's a lot. I think we just had a church in California. I think we just had a church service and a burial, which not everybody went to. I think that's all there was.
I could be wrong, and not a lot of people I knew died when I was young, so whereas here. I mean, my son is really good at wakes. That is something he has learned. He has been to enough wakes that he knows what you say, sorry for your loss, and you know, so I'm always feeling like I'm doing the wrong thing, Like which one are we supposed to go to? Which one of these things that were supposed to go to? Do we go to the other thing as well? Where?
Which really totally depends on how you're connected to that person.
Huh yeah, I mean we recently had somebody passed away in my husband's family. Well it's always my husband's family because I have no family here, but well they're my family as well. But anyway, is somebody that I knew and that wesed went to his house many times and he and his wife were always very kind to me, but we hadn't seen in a long time. And there was like three visitations, like I said, three visitations a
burial and one assumes a party afterwards. And I was like, do we go which one of these things do we go to? Should we go to the burial, should we go to the wake? Should we go? What do we go? And he was like trying to Hamminy and huying too, and you know, do we wear a suit? Do we wear? What do you wear? And when his like when his parents were alive. They drove this. We're going, yess that this is what we're doing. Please come pick us up
or whatever. But now that it's just us, I mean, his brother and sister came from Pennsylvania and they went to one. His sister came from New York from one and they went so they went to the same one, and then we went to a different one. And then I was thinking we were going to go to the
funeral the next day, but he decided not to. And it's like it's this whole I don't want to offend anybody, right, And then you go there and you're just you don't really know anybody, and you have conversation with a couple of people you do, and then you're just sitting there. How long do we sit here? Do we sit here for the whole time? Can we leave early? Where's the signing? You got to sign in? Where's the signing?
Let's let everyone know we were here for sure.
Like there's I feel like there's an etiquette that I don't know. And then I'm always going to do something and people are gonna look at me like what are you doing?
Right? Yeah, that's that's a tough one for sure.
Yeah, it's I guess different things done do get done different ways in different cultures, in different parts of the country and.
In different families.
It yeah, and I don't know, yes, a lot.
Right, And then will it change by the next time, you know, depending on what exactly that person is.
Yeah, yeah, it's it's you know, there was a very small amount of people we knew, and then just a lot of other people. And then you want to talk to the person that you know, but everybody else does too, So it's like you have to take your turn and walk away. Yeah, and goes in someplace just look at all these people and go do you know these people? The people?
Right? Hmmm, Well it's a challenge, just yeah, like so many things.
Yeah yeah, and like there seems to be a lot of a lot of etiquette that used to be a thing that's not anymore, right, and if you expect it, are you a fuddy duddy or are you training your children to be good people?
Yeah?
I don't know good My children would say, I'm I'm a fuddy duddy.
You don't do that anymore man, right, Yeah, And then that just makes like, wait a minute, did I become the old person? Now? Like you know, Oh, we don't do that.
Yes, we became the old person, that is for sure.
That's true.
But that doesn't mean we can't still do the wrong thing, say the wrong thing, step in it.
Yeah.
But training your kids to not is difficult because you don't even know what the situation. We don't even know what the situations are anymore. Not only do you not know what the etiquette is, we don't know what the situations are.
Yeah, and we there's no way to predict either.
So just teach them to say thank you if somebody gives them a ride someplace, if somebody gives them a meal, if somebody does something nice of them. Thank you is gender neutral. You don't have to worry about it. You can just say, you know, generally people like to hear it. Yes, So that's one piece of etiquette we can pass down to the kids, even if you're not sure whether it's right to say or not.
You know, I say thank you and please.
Please also please is good.
Yes, these are things that we we start with when they're tiny babies.
Have you come upon in your archive searches an etiquette book for children?
Hmmm? In my library?
Work in your library?
Yeah, I feel like I have and okay, well I'm not sure I found a good one.
I would be super interested to find out what children's books writers today feel is important etiqutte.
Yeah, I'll be on the lookout and report back.
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