Kate Mason (00:00):
What if the way you approach parenting is influenced by your deeper personality traits? And how could understanding this help you connect more deeply with your child or even your partner? Have you ever wondered why certain parenting challenges seem to trigger you more than others? And could there be an underlying reason that helps you to respond differently if you could find it Now, what if every parent has a unique strength when it comes to raising their children? How could you discover and harness yours to become a parent that you always would've liked to have been? Is there a reason why you clash with certain personalities even when you're trying to do what's best for your kids? And so what if understanding these differences could possibly help to ease those tensions? And how wonderful would it be if we could truly understand and embrace our strengths, deeper motivations and fears, and those of our children and our partners, and connect with them all at a deeper level no matter what their age or stage in life? Hi, I'm Kate Mason and welcome to Parenting and Personalities. This is the podcast that connects you to the ones you care about the most.
(01:22):
I am so excited to introduce my amazing guest today, Jackie Contessa, affectionately known as an iron fist in a velvet glove, is a passionate, personality based life coach and Enneagram expert. A dynamic out of the box thinker. Jackie helps people break free from recurring life patterns to reconnect with their authentic potential. With a background in nonprofits, human advocacy and working with survivors of domestic sex trafficking, Jackie knows firsthand that support is never a one size fits all. She provides a safe space for all nine Enneagram types to take their unique places at the head of their lives. Originally from Jersey, Jackie's a proud and wordy person who refuses to edit for length. And believe me, she writes the most astounding and amazing captivating emails for her clients. And when she's not cracking personality codes, you'll find her reading, binge watching the office and celebrating died a clock. She lives in New Jersey with her husband and two sweet cats, Jetta and Joie. Now stick with us because you are about to learn so much from Jackie today as she takes us into the fascinating world of the nine Enneagram types and how they relate to parenting. Of no doubt you're going to find her wisdom is incredibly relatable and eyeopening. Hi Jackie. Welcome back to Parenting and Personalities podcast. It's so good to have you on today.
Jackie Contessa (02:51):
It is so good to be back. It's so good to see you. Every time I hear your voice, something just shoots right through me. So good to be
Kate Mason (02:57):
Here. Thank you. Thank you. You same for you. You and I have chatted a lot. So look, you've been a guest on the podcast before. So for our listener, if they want to learn more, which I've no doubt they'll want to after today, it's episode 70 and 71 and they'll be linked in at the end of the show. Look, before we start today, I was looking at you label yourself as Jackie Contessa.
Jackie Contessa (03:22):
Yes ma'am.
Kate Mason (03:23):
Can you tell me where that came from?
Jackie Contessa (03:26):
I got married since the last time we spoke. I was engaged and that's my husband's name, and so I became Mrs. Contessa.
Kate Mason (03:35):
Cool. That's great. Good to know. I have got your maiden name sitting in there on. So lucky I haven't used that, so that's wonderful. Wonderful. That's so funny. I was like, what is the secret question she's going to ask me? It's just that Contester is in Marks often on your thing, so I was wondering whether that's a special name. So beautiful. Excellent. Good to hear. So Jackie Contessa, we are going to talk today about Enneagram parenting types. Yes, ma'am. Now you are amazing at the Enneagram and I have just learned so much about myself from the time that you and I have shared together, and I'm hoping that people are really going to learn a lot today from what we're going to talk about. What I'd love to know is initially how did you come across Enneagrams and turn it into your passion?
Jackie Contessa (04:28):
Well, so a friend introduced it to me when I was in college. This is, I mean, a very long time ago, I was about 19 or so, maybe 20. And it was sort of a hobby. I didn't really do much or anything with it, but years later when I realized I had to go on a journey of growth or else I was going to be in the same patterns and then affect people in the same way over and over and over and over, I needed a tool that was sustainable enough that I could go at it alone if I needed to go as deep as I could possibly go. And so it was just one of the most amazing things from the get for me. And as it became passionate, or excuse me, as it became a work in my life, and I started coaching completely separate by the way. I was like, I just want to coach people. This is going to be great. And so fun.
(05:21):
Enneagram bridge that gap for me that made it a sustainable thing so that once I finished working with people, I could pass them the torch and go, you could do this alone. You never have to be, but you can do this by yourself. Take the torch and run. So it became just the most incredible way for people to be understood enough and to understand themselves enough that they could actually change their lives. And I learned that firsthand and I was like, oh, this gets to be for everybody now. So it was a bright light in my life, a tool at the right time that I needed it, and I'm just so grateful for it.
Kate Mason (05:56):
So it's a little bit like the work I do that I found a tool that worked too. But there are so many things out there like the Enneagram and the NBTI temperaments that help us discover things about ourselves.
(06:08):
Absolutely.
(06:08):
And it is great when you have a tool that you can work with and send people off and say, here you go.
Jackie Contessa (06:15):
Yeah, absolutely. And to your point, it's only a piece of the work. It's only a piece of what's available to us. It doesn't tell us everything because we're variables. We're human. There's so much. For example, attachment styles, there could be anxious attachment type twos and dismissive avoidant type twos. We don't know. We don't know your story. So introverted, extroverted, so it's a piece of the puzzle. You know what I mean?
Kate Mason (06:43):
Yeah, perfect. And that's exactly the way I feel about this too. So you have a phrase who you are is how you do everything. Is that correct? I've heard you say that. How does that play out in our lives?
Jackie Contessa (06:56):
Yeah, so it's funny, I often people I heard it my whole life, it's like how you do one thing is how you do everything. And the way that I, I'm like, that's actually not true. It's why you do one thing. Why you do one thing is why you do everything. And essentially the way that plays out is we have patterns of behavior. And what's funny is when I work with people, they'll tell me about this interaction with John at work and Susie at home and they think that they have nothing to do with one another. And then the fact that they skip the gym just because they could rationalize something else. And I'm like those three things are actually related because we have patterns of behavior and even if it looks different and manifests differently, even if one's a conversation and one's a gym you didn't go to, why is the same?
(07:42):
I was actually having a conversation with somebody the other day and they were talking about how they want to approach these goals that they know make them feel good, but instead, I think they said they doom scroll. And I said, what's something else that you do? And they said, I also binge eat. And I was like, okay. What you need to figure out is what those two things give you and what is scary on the other side of this goal that you want. Why are you doing what you're doing? Sometimes I do it well and sometimes I don't do it well and how I do things. I mean, I think the phrase how you do one thing is how you do everything was created for to tell people, keep your car clean because how you do one thing is how you do everything. Have a good attitude, make your bed, have a good attitude, respect your elder.
(08:34):
But in reality, if we want to change things and we want to impact people positively and leave our mark on the world, we have to figure out why we're doing for better or for worse everything. Because why we do one thing is why we do everything. And every single one of these Enneagram types has a big fat why. And we see so many variations in manifestations of thought, behavior, feeling, but the why is still the same for every single archetype. Or excuse me, it's different for every single archetype, but within that archetype it's the same
Kate Mason (09:06):
Thing. It's the same thing. Absolutely. So today we're going to have a look and see whether we can find the why. And the other thing that you and I chatted about the other day was what do you have to say about people who might think that the Enneagram is a bit of woo-hoo or not a real thing? And you were talking about what you let them do with the information that they receive, what you'd like them to do with it.
Jackie Contessa (09:29):
Oh, I often tell people to eat the fish and spit out the bones. I am like, take what resonates and leave what doesn't. I think what matters, who my friend Jeff Cook often says, who you're not is not interesting. Take what resonates. If there's something there that's going ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, eat the fish, spit out the bones. If you don't like the bones, spit 'em out. Take the fish, take what's good for you from it. If you listen to this and you go, nothing is for me, I encourage you to go find what's for you.
Kate Mason (10:01):
I love that. I really love, that's
Jackie Contessa (10:03):
Not it. Yeah,
Kate Mason (10:04):
Because a lot of the time people battle with people that will say that, but basically if it's not for you, don't do it. But I'm sure that our listeners' going to find so much that is for them today. So let's start with the Enneagram and because we're not necessarily going to repeat what we spoke about last time about the Enneagram and introducing them all individually, we're going to do it in a parenting style. So if you could start, and I'm going to let you go unless I have a question and I'm going to interrupt you because this is your thing. You are wonderful at this, so you please talk to us.
Jackie Contessa (10:44):
So in an effort to not repeat it, I think I'll focus on that big fat why that we were talking about and essentially the big fat why for these parents. And so sometimes I talk a lot with parents, I work a lot with single moms and they're like, why do I keep doing that? Why do I do that? Why do I find myself doing this thinking? This feeling is over and over and over find myself in this pattern? And we often talk about a big fat y, so I can go through those four, every single one of the types. And so we have what's called type one. So all the types are one through nine, and that is the perfectionist or reformer parent and that archetype of parent, essentially they are motivated by being good, doing good, being right, being balanced and having integrity. Their big fat. Why is being, they don't want to be corrupt, defective or imperfect. It's very threatening to them to be imperfect, to be wrong, to be bad on a deep level. And that manifests in their parenting in different patterns the same way it manifests in their life. It's so funny, I was talking with my husband before the podcast and I was like how people parent is how they people.
(11:58):
And so if I'm afraid that I'm wrong or bad or out of line, I'm going to put that into my parenting, my big fat why goes into everything I do.
Kate Mason (12:09):
Yep.
Jackie Contessa (12:09):
Does that make sense?
Kate Mason (12:10):
Yes. Yes it does. So as a parent that has a fear of all of that, how can they balance not planting that fear in their children of making mistakes, of being perfect because like you say, it is the way they live their lives and it is their why in that sense
(12:30):
Of,
(12:31):
So what would you recommend if somebody as we go through, can you give us a bit of a recommendation if someone's feeling that that might be them? You're describing them straight out.
Jackie Contessa (12:43):
So what I want to say for type ones is there is nothing wrong with excellence. There's nothing wrong with, Hey, you know what, that's not right. Let's fix it. Let's do better. There's nothing wrong with betterment when there is no measuring stick, when there is no measuring stick, it's not attainable period. And so I think the big thing to do is to step back and go, is there a measuring stick of done? Right? Perfect. Good. Is there a goal that I'm trying to get to here? And if I can't name that I am overcompensating for something more likely than not for this type, if this is your type, it's going to be a sense of I don't feel like I have control and being appropriate, orderly is a way that I get control is a way that I feel good. So that's the question I would love for anybody even who this doesn't have to be your type, eat the fish, spit out the bones if you feel like this, if you're trying to do right, trying to do good, trying to do what's best, but there's no measuring stick for you to measure yourself on to say, yep, I did it.
(13:42):
I did good. I need you to figure out what we're overcompensating for there so that it doesn't leak out, right?
Kate Mason (13:49):
Yes, yes. Because unfortunately with children there's rarely a perfect, perfect time or a perfect moment and things like that. So that's fabulous. Number two.
Jackie Contessa (14:02):
Okay, number two, and this is hard for me because it's my type and we struggle a lot with pride and I don't like that. So the type two is called the helper or the giver. This is the helper or giver parent. And so this is a very sacrificial, warm person, and this archetype of parent is motivated to feel loved and wanted for who they are as a person. My big fat, why type two's big fat. Why that core fear is that they are unwanted, unloved, unlovable, unworthy of love, that there's something in them fundamentally that just is not lovable and they really try to earn that. And so the thing I want you to keep in mind and remember, especially if this is something you identify with as a general, whether it's in parenting or in life and friendships, that you just kind of overgive the root of that overgiving to feel wanted to earn that place, right?
(14:54):
Is because you're not meeting your own needs. And what this does is it atrophies the muscle that even connects you to what you need. You ever get asked what do you need? And you're just like, what ends up happening if we're parents in this role and we are not meeting our own needs, is we project that we might be unlovable onto our children and try to meet their needs to get that love filled. Let me tell you right now, and I say this with so much love and so much grace from one, two to another, if this identifies right, you cannot get self-love from another person, especially your children. So that's my tip for type two parents
Kate Mason (15:34):
There. That's a really valuable call. You have to learn to love yourself, don't you?
Jackie Contessa (15:38):
Yes. And sometimes that means meeting our needs. That means sometimes braving the selfish to meet our needs first, right?
Kate Mason (15:46):
Absolutely. That's a great one because to tell the truth, if our needs aren't met and we are not happy, we are actually not benefiting our children or ourselves in life really. So yeah, beautiful. Number three.
Jackie Contessa (16:00):
Yeah, so type three parents. Type three is called the achiever or the performer. And so really they go for personal achievement and they're concerned with image and achievement can be in a corporate setting. It could also be I want to have the best family, I want to have the best looking family. So as a parent, that motivation is that they want to be valuable and worthy, but that's only really measured to them by other people's affirmation and validation. And unfortunately we know validation is for parking, but it gets in our heads a little bit too much and we get image conscious. And so their big fat, why is that They're concerned that outside of what they do and what they present and their image, they don't have an inherent value or identity. And so they would much rather find an image to become, for example, a good family.
(16:50):
So if you're a type three parent or if you're an achiever, if you're concerned with image, one of the things that I will say, and this is a deeply reflective thing, is if you find people within your home coming to you and saying, Hey, I feel like something is going on, or I want to talk to you or whatever, be open to receiving what they have to say, even if it doesn't match the image that you have of how your family is functioning, allow yourself to be surprised by we're happy, we're good, everyone has what they need and we're good and we go to these holiday parties and X, Y, z, mom, I'm struggling with depression. Allow yourself to be surprised that perhaps something is different than the image that you have in your mind and that is scary but also incredibly authentic and healthy.
Kate Mason (17:40):
That's really valuable thinking. I've never thought about that, but I do know, I think I do relate to some people that I could see that being very much so. Okay, the number four.
Jackie Contessa (17:52):
Yeah, so type four parents. Type four is called the individualist or the artist. I'm going to go out on the limb here because the fours like it. But the other types get defensive and say that sometimes they're called the tortured artist because they can be really deep and dark, but in the best way possible. So for them, they're motivated by finding their unique identity and personal significance and their big fat. Why? The thing that they're trying to outrun is that they don't have identity, they don't have personal significance, that they don't know who that authentically, that authentic person is and that they're not going to be able to express themselves properly and leave their mark on this world. That can absolutely impact parenting in so many ways because you can only you parent how you person and if you're like, I have to spend all of my effort and energy trying to find my identity instead of being my authentic self, even if that changes every 10 minutes, it's really difficult to inspire a little person who's being shaped to be their authentic self, even if that changes every 10 minutes. So it's so important to remember that you change and that doesn't mean you didn't get it right.
(19:03):
Just change with you when you change.
Kate Mason (19:07):
That's really valuable. I also know some number fours.
Jackie Contessa (19:12):
Yes, they're wonderful. They
Kate Mason (19:14):
Really are. They are. Oh look, everyone is wonderful, but we do all have these uncertainties in ourselves. So number five, no number. What are we up to? We're around five. Yes, we're number five. Yeah.
Jackie Contessa (19:29):
So type five parents. Fives are called the investigator or the theorist. So they are very perceptive and insightful and very independent and they kind of operate within themselves. They have an entire universe that operates standalone in themselves. Their core motivation is to be capable and competent. And so they're sort of a little bit detached and far from emotions, even though they can be sensitive because that helps them focus on knowledge. Knowledge means power, it means it's competence, but their big fat, why? Their core fear is essentially being, it's right, it's being number one incompetent, not having mastery, not being able to master something or find that meaning or being completely depleted of all of their resources, their efforts, their energy. One of the things that I find that happens with this type of archetype of parents or person is sometimes we struggle with the line between detaching from something and non attaching.
(20:31):
And that can be a struggle in parenting when we detach from the intense emotions of our kids, the intense needs while they're figuring out what's going on, when in reality we can be present in the moment and say, this doesn't need to come with me into the next moment being non-attached and being detached. So that's a big thing is to be cognizant. If this resonates with you, is to say, I know that and recognize that this is going to take my energy, but I don't need to take it with me into the next thing, but I do need to be present here. I can deal with it later because I'm the adult in the situation. I can deal with it
Kate Mason (21:07):
Later. So does this parent find it a little bit hard emotionally? Do you give to a child in that sense?
Jackie Contessa (21:14):
Yes. And so one of the interesting and beautiful, right, beautiful things, these are everything I'm saying, shame off of everybody because these are all muscles. These are all muscles that atrophy without use or just get better and better and better with use. So for type five, they compartmentalize a lot, and so they compartmentalize in two ways. Number one, they detach from their emotions at all because it takes up way more energy than feelings. And then they also compartmentalize what they're feeling from what's happening. So they'll be like, I feel a vague sense of anxiety, but they will not relate it to perhaps a fight they had with their spouse. I don't know why I just feel off. So being able to connect on an emotional level can be really difficult where that parent might prefer to connect on an intellectual level, which children need intuitive connection, emotional connection, and intellectual connection from their parents, right?
Kate Mason (22:19):
So that's a great thing for a person, the listener that might be thinking they're a five because that's a really important thing. The next one, number six.
Jackie Contessa (22:29):
Yeah. Okay, so type six is often called the loyalist or the guardian. So this is really a guardian parent because they can be highly skeptical, highly suspicious. They're on the lookout for hidden agendas because the world can be unpredictable. And so in some ways I'm like, I know I'm making them sound like a helicopter parent. That's not the case. They just can see the different scenarios and the contingencies and they have to think them through. And so their core motivation is to have security and support. That also means they want to be security and support for their kids, but they really struggle to trust themselves. And their core fear is essentially being without support or guidance or security. And so I think a huge thing there is, and this is so hard because I think even if you wouldn't consider yourself to be an anxious or hypervigilant person, once you become a parent that's out the window, you know that anything is possible. What I will tell anybody who identifies with this is that in a world where anything is possible, you can only plan for what you can plan for, but then you have to trust yourself. There is no dupe for self-trust,
(23:37):
No guidance, no support, no security, no organized community, no religion, nothing is a dupe for self trust. Now, I encourage you to make sure you do have guidance and community and people you can rely on, but you must trust yourself first. You can't find the security and trust you're looking for until you become it for yourself.
Kate Mason (23:59):
Because if this parent is constantly worrying about their child and can't let go even into adulthood, it's very, very, very important, isn't it? Because what do they do to that child if they're not trusting them?
Jackie Contessa (24:15):
Especially because with this type, once they think of something else, we know this when we can't control the outcomes, when we can't have certainty, any answer just gives us more questions. And so they have this tendency to think in contingencies, but what if and then what if then what if then? So that can be really, really difficult to make sure we're not projecting that onto our kids of any age and being able to go, okay, in a world where everything is possible and an Easter bunny could fall right out of the sky. Right now I trust myself to handle it,
Kate Mason (24:51):
And
Jackie Contessa (24:51):
I can't project this onto my son. I can't project this onto my
Kate Mason (24:53):
Daughter. That's really valuable information to, so then we get to me,
Jackie Contessa (25:02):
Type seven, what a joy. Type seven. Okay, type seven is called the enthusiast or the optimist or the adventurer. And they just are so they can be really busy and productive as parents and playful, excitable and versatile. And their core motivation is to have fun and instill that, but also to be satisfied, to be content, to have their needs fulfilled on a deeper level and for themselves, they create a lot of opportunities, but their core fear, their big fat. Why is that? They're going to be deprived. They're going to be trapped in emotional pain. And so these parents, they do supply the fun, they do supply the optimism, but as people, they're in a pattern of activity and then anticipation of activity. And it's funny, sometimes I meet with some of these parents and they're heavy into the activity part, and then some are heavy into the anticipation part, but all of it's part of the cycle activity and an anticipation of activity.
(26:00):
And that can be a lot for kids who need to learn how to slow down, listen to their inner person, listen for the good and listen for the bad. And that can be really hard when mom or dad doesn't want to do that. And that can be really scary. It's so scary to slow down. Enthusiasts can think if I slow down, it catches up to me. I got to keep it going, got to keep it light. And so I encourage enthusiast parents, when your kids come to you with feelings, they are not asking you to fix them. They're different in age. They're not afraid of their pain, and they're sad and they're scary and they're heavy the way you might actually learn something from them. But if they bring it to you, would you just hold it without getting involved and allow them to see that it's okay and see what they do with it? And you'll learn. If I sit in my pain for a second, it doesn't unhook its jaw and swallow me whole.
Kate Mason (27:01):
Yeah, thank you from a seven. I love you and I have loved working with you around this too because this is one of the things that I had never realized about myself. And I am just that I am always, and my son was probably about 13. I was trying to entertain him and make sure that everything was going well. And he is not a seven. My daughter, I feel is, but we haven't worked that out yet.
(27:27):
But he turned around and said to me, mom, I don't need friends. I don't need you to organize anything for me. I am good. And in that moment, I actually did take that on board and realize that I didn't have to entertain. There wasn't that necessity either, and there wasn't the need. And over time, here I am sitting here at 63, oh my goodness, there's still so much more to learn about life. But it was only a few years ago that I was able to sit in on emotions because I'd read a book that said, you don't need to fix,
(27:58):
You
(27:58):
Can just sit. So everything, we learned something from everything, no matter how big or small that we learn. And that's what I find really, really important about what we're discussing now, is that it really changed my life. So thank you, thank you, thank you. And we go on to my husband next.
Jackie Contessa (28:20):
Oh yes, I love a type eight. So it's funny, I have a lot of this in my behavior and in my attitude. So I love this. So type eights, type eights as parents, as people, they're powerful confidence. I am talking A to B with thunder in their steps, but they're also protective and soft-hearted, right? So they're the big guy in the movie that's named Tiny. Yes. So they're motivated as parents, as people to be strong and in control of their own life. And sometimes they can come off like a bull in a China shop. I hear a lot, I will not take eight slander. I'm going to say that right now. I will not hear it because I hear a lot of, I'm at a really unhealthy and unregulated eight. And I like to say, did you stand up for yourself? Were you direct? Were you honest? Were you beating around the bush? Because they were probably just trying to see if you would put your whole behind into what you were saying and you didn't. And that's probably why you don't like them. Their fear, they're going to get mad at me, nothing. No, their core fear, their big fat. Why is being harmed, being controlled, being violated by other people, being at the mercy of injustice. So this is what makes them protective.
(29:35):
They have a lot. Vulnerability costs them a lot. And I'm going in that very direct and strong because I know that's the language they speak. So please allow me to say when it comes to your children, vulnerability is not the big neon sign above your head that says, get this one. It's weak. It's the weak one of the pack. What is weakness is not being able to be vulnerable with your children. You have to both be storm and shelter, strong and soft. It's a balance. It is allowed to be scary. It is allowed to feel exposing. It is allowed. You are not weak, but you must be vulnerable with your children.
Kate Mason (30:23):
Yeah, that's a great challenge for the eight because that just describes my husband beautifully. And luckily his children are actually quite direct and assertive as well. Gorgeous what they do say. So it kind of works. I think I'm the one that struggles the most, running away from the more valuable part of
Jackie Contessa (30:47):
That. I find it beautiful when kids can speak the same language as their parent because it says, I don't have to earn you. I can see you for who you are. I can meet you, I can communicate with you. I can be my own person enough to do that. I think that's beautiful.
Kate Mason (31:03):
And I do always remember when we were young, I went to a parenting workshop
(31:09):
And the kids were about three and five I think, and the woman sat at the front and she said, oh, put your hand up if you think you're in control of your kids. And I didn't, didn't think I was, but when several people did, and she said, I just want you to know now you'll never be in control of your children. And they're the most wise words because you're not ever there. And so it is really great, like you say, when your children actually do understand you, because it gives them a handle on things too, when they understand where you are in life and how you're up and down. And so it is, and my daughter is a little bit like him herself, so it does, we sit and chat about this stuff all the time over dinner. It's like, let's discusses this because I find it absolutely fascinating. So number nine.
Jackie Contessa (31:57):
Number nine, nine's the crown of the Enneagram. So nines are called the peacemakers or the mediators or the referees. And all of the parents here are like, if you have more than one kid, you're like, okay, yeah, I'm the referee. But I will say they are very good natured. They're very kind, they're very accommodating. They are peace loving individuals. And what's interesting is that peace can mean a lot of different things. It could just mean a lack of disturbance, it could mean harmony, but for them, connection is really, really important. And they'll do almost anything to stay connected because their core motivation is to have inner stability and peace of mind. And sometimes not being connected to other people feels like being fragmented. Their core fear, their big fat. Why is loss separation, fragmentation, like I said. So for them, they have a tendency to snip the connection that they have to their inner person, their inner desires, their deep, deep pressing cravings, wants, needs, agendas, and so on and so forth to make sure there's no separation or fragmentation because they're afraid that their agenda will threaten the group, threaten the harmony, cause conflict even just cause friction.
(33:12):
And that can be really hard for them. And so one thing that I will tell anybody who identifies with that at all, especially as a parent, is that authentic connection, real connection. The connection that actually is the opposite of fragmentation only comes from real repair. That comes from real conflict that comes when you speak your mind. Conflict is not always yelling and screaming. Conflict is just, okay, hold on, this is not as steady as we thought, but we can get there. And when you do that with people you have a connection with including your children, it stabilizes things that that's peace within the chaos because you can never make it not chaos. And I will say, don't forget yourself as a parent. Don't forget yourself as a person. You don't want to be, you set the example for your kids to be able to reach in into their chest, into their gut and pull the fire out and be able to do something with it by saying it's worth it for me to do that for myself.
Kate Mason (34:25):
Yeah, it is really scary for nines to go in and have it any kind of conflict. This is my son and I think it is my daughter just calls him the people pleaser being a not in a kind way.
Jackie Contessa (34:43):
Well, like siblings, that's
Kate Mason (34:45):
Siblings. Oh my goodness, you are such a people pleaser. But
Jackie Contessa (34:48):
You know what? It's true. And it's not even about making people happy because they're like, I don't really care, but what it is is the disturbance is too much for me. The lack of peace is too much. The anger is destabilizing for them. And one thing I will actually say to nines too is really similar to the sevens, your kids don't want you to reframe their pain because they're not trying to numb it out. They're trying to understand it because it's their first time
Kate Mason (35:20):
Here, it's their first rodeo. And that's a great way of looking at it because yeah, and I understand that dislike of upsetting people, there is a certain amount of that in me as well. And so it is really hard to allow other people to be angry because you don't want to face that. It is scary. It is really scary. I understand often people go, oh, I don't like confrontation, and I don't think anyone does confrontation. It just depends on how it occurs. And some people are more comfortable with being straightforward and initiating a discussion around feelings or around things that have gone wrong, whereas others would rather just push it under the rug and let it go. Really often that just amounts to a massive explosion at the end of perhaps a situation rather than playing it out perhaps in a more calm even way, I guess. What do you think about that? Do you agree or do you
Jackie Contessa (36:24):
No, I completely agree. And I think what's interesting is that directness is not confrontation. Most people, even if they wouldn't mind having it, will engage in confrontation if they find it necessary. So confrontation is one of those things, but directness is just one method of communication.
Kate Mason (36:47):
And I think some people find directness, confrontation. They look at it when someone's direct with them, they don't look at it and say, this person is just being direct. They go, oh, they're confronting me. So it's really a perception thing, isn't it?
Jackie Contessa (37:01):
That's a struggle my husband and I had when he's a seven like you and I'm a two, but one of the things that I've done is I've done the work of trying to not people please type twos can be very give till empty. And so directness has been a very beautiful sweet spot for me. I've maintained kindness, but that was a road bump for us and we've done couples therapy and we still do it because we love that guy and we can't get rid of him, but honestly, he's like family now. We call him dad, you end up with all these friends. I know, but it was one of those things where he even said it in therapy where he's like, that's what I loved about her. I told him that I was a witch with a bee on our first date directly. And I was like, I've just got to give it to you straight. And he's never seen a lack of kindness from me, and that's backed up. That directness is just directness because sometimes I don't have it in me to do all the nuance,
Kate Mason (38:01):
Right? Yep, yep, yep. You don't have time. And with a seven, they might be running away from directness because they're like, why can't
Jackie Contessa (38:09):
We just go get
Kate Mason (38:10):
Sandwiches instead? Let's go that. Why can't we go on a holiday? Literally, let's leave it all out behind. Oh my goodness. I totally get that. Thank you so much for your, we are running out of time, so I really appreciate this discussion and I know that the person listening is probably going to go, oh my goodness, I might go online. And if you can quickly, because I do this with my type as well, I say to people about going online and doing tests online and how you don't always get the truth. So could you just tell me how that feels with Enneagram going online for the
Jackie Contessa (38:48):
Enneagram? Yeah, so I will say if you need it, you can use it as a starting point, but please don't rely on it. If you see me online, I love to completely dookie on all the online tests, but that's from my experience and the experience of retyping people. So essentially these tests can be really great if you are the textbook version of your Enneagram type. The thing is, there are billions of us out there, and we are all variations and so much is available to us. There are instinctual subtypes rooted in biology. There are variations where you borrow from the number next to you or the one on the other side. There are counters that essentially go against their core motivation in action and thought and behavior and look like a completely different type. Counter type sixes look like eights counter type eights look like twos counter type twos look like fours.
(39:45):
If you take an online test and they ask you, I was on a coaching panel recently, and just to be silly, I took an Enneagram quiz. I'll tell you guys directly, I took the Truity test and in my opinion of the tests, it's probably the best out there. I typed as an Enneagram type nine, I don't have a peacekeeping bone in my body unfortunately, so I'm like all menace and all chaos. So I would highly encourage you that if you're like, I like to do solo work, I'm not a coach person, there is information that can be purchased from coaches online for self-study. There is lots of books and research that can be done. You can work with a coach. Please don't take an online test because the last thing you need on the journey to making sure you get from here to there in the most sustainable you way, you don't need the shame of another person's behavior is that don't actually apply to you.
(40:45):
You don't need to fix the core motivations you are not running from. And if you go based on what it sounds like on the outside, heck, if you even go based on what it sounds like from here, you might be missing a pivotal piece. And so do yourself a service and invest in yourself, whether that's financially or whether that's your time and your effort, but taking an online test, if you are trying to equate this to in style magazines like what shade of lipstick are you, then sure, go take an online test, have so much fun, forget about it. If you need to do something with this, if something is going ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. Please do something more.
Kate Mason (41:26):
Yep. Wise words, very wise words. And Jackie is the most wonderful coach. Oh, thank you. Jackie, where can we reach you if we need to?
Jackie Contessa (41:36):
Oh, okay. So I'm on Instagram at table four nine Co. It's FOR and the digit nine, or I'm at jackie contessa.com. The last thing I'll say, if you don't mind, is if you're a single mom and you're listening to this and you go, okay, I don't know if I know much about the Enneagram, but I'd like to, or I really need two hours of self-care for eligible moms. I gift back sessions, typing sessions for my wait list, and you can find that on my website as well. So I'd love for you to just go explore that if you are interested.
Kate Mason (42:07):
Oh, that, that's a wonderful gift. That's fabulous. Thank you so much for your time. Love having you here. Thank you, and I look forward to talking to you again really soon. Thank you. Yes. If you found this episode fascinating and know someone that could also benefit from understanding Enneagram, please pass it on because the more we understand ourselves in this world, the better we can recognize not only who we are, but also who others are. Plus, let's be honest, it's always helpful to understand what's makes people tick, especially those quirky ones in our lives. Nah, just kidding. But really, the more we know, the easier it is to get along and enjoy our connection with others. Thank you for listening to Parenting and Personalities. If you enjoyed this episode, we'd love it if you could leave a rating and a review that would help others learn about this podcast. If you are interested in discovering more about you and your family's personality types, you'll find my book, who is This Monster or Treasure, my House on Booktopia or Amazon. If you have an episode idea, please send a note to the personality coach@gmail.com. Many thanks to our producers at Stories and Strategies, and we'll see you next time.