I remember one time in Guatemala, I fall in my lines and then I just hardly opened my rescue and I was on the ground. Then we had to spend the whole night, I think 2428 hours till the chopper come. We have to spend there on the mountain stream. And it was crazy. It was for him, super painful sometimes, but in the end it was
a story I will never forget. There was a bear 20 meters next to me. There was one bear and the bear also realized me and he turned around and then he then there was a tree lying and then he stand on the tree like this was looking me like then I was looking him. I'm like, oh. I want to talk a little bit about your inspirations, Philippe. Have you had mentors in the sport?
Have you like how has your teachings been or what are the pilots that you have looked up to and how has that journey been for you? Yeah, actually I had some very good mentors. He was flying on all these competitions, so he was on the top in the earlier days. Philippe Zeliger, thank you so much for joining Fanatic Landing. Atlas man, so good to see you one more time this year. How is life treating you these days? Yeah, it's good.
These days I'm back home in Austria, just come back in one month ago from India, so everything is good. Yeah. Have you, have you had a lot of airtime these days? I I remember when I met you there, it was just like a lot of mixed flying days with a lot of thunderstorms and everything happening. So how has the season been for you this time around? Yeah, this year was not that good.
Then last year, last year I think was more fly flyable days in India. But it's OK, there is also other things to do what they like, like I can fly. So if not the whole day you do some, I can fly. So the flight to the Hot Springs relaxed. But there is many good things to do. I think just for the perspective of our audiences, how long have you been going to India, man? Because it seems like India better than Indians. So it's like, what's with you
and India, man? Like how did this come into you and how long has the has the romance been going so strong? I'm pretty much sure it's more than 10 years now, maybe even 11 or 12 years. All right, yeah. And how did this strike your mind? What curiosity started pushing you to India that it it was like 1012 years of pushing? When I was flying Dandam for the company, then a friend of mine, he told me, oh, let's go to India, it's very nice place for flying gross country.
But then they'll say, oh, but they're the accurate and they say, oh, you're bringing accurate. Then it's also OK. That's how it starts. And then they come first time in India and straight fall in love with the place. I don't blame you, man. It's, it's quite a mystical place to be in. And of course, the endless possibilities of the mighty Himalayas offer. You are no stranger to that because you explored them in and out.
So yeah, the topic of bringing you on board this show today is to navigate the topic of risk versus reward. And of course, you have navigated the risk versus reward spectrum in a very successful manner so far in in the big mountains in the Himalayas. Like before we actually delve into this or dive into the whole scenario, if you can just tell us a little bit about like how many hours do you have under
your belt? And then Acrobat, just a small, a little introduction about you and your parrot lighting. Of course the Indians know about you, but I think the world needs to know as well. So just for the audience's purpose. Yeah, actually in the beginning I start with acroparrot lighting and I actually make a very fast progress. I think I flew one year and then it make Helico after two years I flew Infinity. This was those years was one of the difficulties maneuver.
And yeah, then after a while I start to go to India for gross country. And I think this is makes me, yeah, feeling safe under gross country gliders because you know what the glider is doing. Got it. So when when you say that you made a decently fast progress and you've went at it from the beginning, what kind of mindset did you set out with? How did you start your art of life journey basically? Yeah, actually I just spent all
my time. What I have, I spent on flying when I went every day up, even if it was after working and I see I can catch the last cable car. I went up for the last run and then I just hit one run. But I tried to go every day and even I had actually a good job. I was working for men, for everywhere, for everything. And my boss was very nice actually. And he asked me, hey Philip, you have time next week you have this and this work. I say I looked on the weather.
I say, Oh no, I have no time. And then I say OK, I call you on the weekends. So like this I got lots of free time for flying. So this was very good. Do you want to share your fascination for flying? Like basically what kind of gets you excited about it? Because all of us have that very intimate feeling that pulls us towards the sky and wants, wants us to keep us there. And I've seen the ones who have pushed it from the beginning. I have quite an interesting story to tell.
So what was your drive that eventually got you into the sport and eventually made you pioneers? Yeah, actually, some friends get me in. Before I was lots of motorbiking. And then I stopped because I got a little bit too mad. So I say, OK, I have to do something else. And then he told me, oh, my uncle have a flying school. I say, oh, OK, nice. And then maybe two weeks later,
I start the course. But yeah, I think if you spend a lot of time and here's what you'll like, and the good thing is if you're up in there, you forget all the other things around you. This is some kind of meditation, and I think this is very nice because you don't think about what's happened tomorrow. You're just in your. Let's say we're just in your element. You know, when you like this, you're just there and when you
enjoy. And. Yeah. No, I, I think I, I resonate with that curiosity of yours because flow state as, as a lot of people explain, or the basically the pure joy of doing something that kind of engulfs your brain and everything in it to, to make it happen is, is very rewarding in itself. And I was reading some articles about you online and it said you're into slacklining and now, as you said, motorcycling and
stuff like that. So I believe you have been chasing these kind of feelings for quite a while, even before the aerial sports came into your life. Is it? Yeah, it's also nice Snow Adrenaline. It's more or less. It's a good track, you know. 100% man, 100% agreed.
But talking about risk versus reward and serving the spectrum of risk versus reward to yourself, as you have changed disciplines and as you have grown in your mind and in your body, have you ever felt the need or have you ever felt the want to change your perspective to risk versus reward? Be it slacklining, be it motorcycling, be it para lining, or are you still in the same zone? Like how has that side of the aspect been? I feel like I'm still in the same zone.
I like to in one opinion, you, you have to take some risk if you want get better and this what you want to do. But it's also, let's say back for flying. If you fly always the same Anuma, after a while it's getting boring. So then you want always more. It's always the same. Now with the twisted stuff, it's also it's you try and then it's like, wow, it feels good. It feels different. Then you get more interest because if you do always the same, then at one point it's
getting a little bit boring. And then it's like, of course it's not bad if you do always the same. It's also in a good way. If you don't push too much, This is always the borderline, how much you push. You should also not push too much and be stupid.
Yeah. Indeed, I, I think like my, my perspective if you start thinking from the new beginners point of view, because I remember when I was starting to learn paralleling, I, I started doing forward launches and I started doing reverse launches and somehow forward launches were just very risky or they seemed very risky to me. I was like in reverse, I just feel very good. And somehow my brain was telling me to stick to my comfort zone and not do forward launches anymore and try and stick to
reverse ones. And I see a lot of pilots in in our sport sticking to reverse launches and not pushing the risky spectrum of perfecting a forward launch or navigating towards it. So do you want to touch up on
the topic? The how eventually do you find that a person is ready to go ahead and try something new, even though it is outside your comfort zone, Even though it might seem a bit tough, but it is still a necessity because once you know how to do a forward launch, it is anyway super helpful and makes you a safer pilot. And I think this can be mapped in doing full stalls or in doing big wing overs or getting into acro and all of that.
Because every time you will have something which keeps you safe, which keeps you happy. And the other one is it seems a little bit risky, which seems a little bit dangerous, but eventually is safer in the longer run if you do actually make to accomplish it. The other thing is they don't push too much in the beginning because if you're, I have many friends, they pushed a lot and they are very good with mixed
driving or something like this. So they're a little bit hard guys and then they push too much and then the other one fresh in the spiral or something like this. So it's like you should not push too much, especially in the beginning. You need a lot of flights. This is the most safest thing what you can do. You go up with the app or you make flights. So in the beginning you don't think too much about pushing
just to feel comfortable. And if you feel comfortable and you get the feeling, OK, I can try a little bit more. OK, go a little step. It's better to do not like you do a full step. You do half step and it's even more safe than you do the full step I would say. Got it. So let's say define these half or full steps from let's say my dilemma was that is it right time to push to A2 liner or to upgrade to A2 liner from a three
liner. And even there are times when you're going on full speed bar through thermals, you're flown in India, you know how the thermals are and there are times when 3 liners can scare you a lot in thermals. But at the same time, every other duration, the whole duration of the flight, which is not being flown in thermal, you're very comfortable on your wing and you feel like yes, you're totally ready to upgrade to A2 liner, but then you
upgrade to A2 liner. God forbid something happens and you feel like you're not ready for it. So now you're getting your confidence along with the too soon and too late thing because you do have to push, but at the same time, you don't have to push as well. This is a massive Gray area that I hear a lot of pilots talk about, but I don't hear a lot of answers regarding a clear cut
answers regarding this. Do you have any suggestions on how did you navigate this when you were growing up in your career and how did you eventually try to upgrade and do things that were outside your comfort zone? Yeah, the thing was I start with I remember when we make a lot of collapse in the beginning and we was a small group and we just flew outside and we make so many of collapse as possible all the time. And yeah, for sure it was many
flats like this one. And after we start going on a lake, then we make our first food stall. Actually I make a spiral, I make a front collar up. And then my friend was like, oh, feel a mix full stall I have to make also. And then the next round I was like, oh fuck my friend make full stall. OK. And so you push your with your friends a little bit more. Can you go in a safe place if my official rescue land in the water? And yeah, this is always good to push like this.
And this is also a point I see many times people, they fly if you see glider or a big glider, they should not go too fast on these gliders because there is not really a reason. Last year in India I flew 2 weeks to see and it's also sea glider. So you don't need to really to upgrade too fast because actually you can do everything with a peak level that you can if you want. At the beginning, of course, no, If you fly a long time, you fly a lot. And then of course you can go
for a sealer peak level. So let's say if we have to make this line of upgradation, because let's say upgrading to a newer classification or a higher classification wing is one of the main reasons why your skills do not match with the expectations that eventually with the reality that eventually
happens of how the wing behaves. So let's say to be on a, to be on a safer level, do you should pilots start putting some number of hours as the benchmark or some number of stalls as the benchmark said, hey, until I do 100 hours, I don't think I should be upgrading. Or until I do so many stalls, I will not upgrade as a minimum set because obviously no manufacturer or no reseller or or retail shop out there will try to say that I will only sell this to a pilot with certain
number of hours. But on a personal note, do you think it's a good habit to try and have some kind of benchmarking which you can actually measure rather than just the feeling? Because feelings can change with the day and confidence living and all of those things. Yeah, I would actually say before you upgrade to a glider, you should stall. You should feel confident in the stall with your. It's maybe a little bit higher. Many people who sure don't know how to do the stall with the
glider what they're flying. But in my opinion, it's like I start with stalled with mentor and I stalled it so many times to feel comfortable and then I moved to another glider. And then even even if I try one new glider, the first thing what they do, I fly out and I make a stall and look how it's behave how I feel like under the glider when I stole the glider. This is always like when I try a new glider except my friend tell me oh This is why. Are you glad I don't make a
stall? Yeah, sounds great. But I think while while we're talking about stalls and pushing the limits on all of these things, do you think you as a pilot yourself have had some limiting factors while you were progressing? Did you have your kind of experience level or your goals which influenced your decisions or anything which influenced risk taking abilities like how did how has your progression been? Because obviously everybody has their own battles to deal with.
So what were your challenges while you were trying to move on? Although you do seem like you fly, like you're an invisible person. But as a pilot to pilot, how do you navigate all of these challenges, if you have any? Yeah, the thing was, yeah, I had some friends, they was very good in acro, so they teach me a lot. So this was also what helps me a lot. Sometimes if you have no people who can help you, then it's more
difficult to get better. It's always good if you have some friends, or even if you have no friends, you take some SAV or you do some other stuff. Yeah. Have you had decisions, Have you had to take decisions in your flying career where you had taken like calculated risk, where you had to prioritize safety while pushing the boundaries or anything like that? Yeah, sometimes, of course, there is some reason, especially when I did this Himalaya crossing.
Sometimes you get in places there is windy and maybe you expect, but then there is windy and there is no place to land. But yeah, there is some bad moments for sure. Some thanks. But you always have to find an opinion on what you can do in the worst case. When I go flying, I'm always looking for one opinion and there is always something possible. If you're in the worst place, maybe then you can soar up
somewhere. Or yeah, I'm sure it's also sometimes a little bit luck, but luck is also good. We need also luck in our life, for sure. I have also a lot of that, but a. 100% you know, and while you're talking about the Himalayan crossing, I remember about the harness rescue that you did.
Let's, let's talk a little bit about that one when you were flying at 6500 plus or something and you picked up A harness of another pilot and brought it back to the main landing in Saudi. Yeah, let's let's bring that one into the show, man, because I think that will cover up a lot of topics. How did that flight pan out? And if you can just talk to our audiences a little bit about it and then we'll pick it up from there on. Yeah, 11, friend of mine, he landed there and then he fall in
the river. Then they pick him up with the chopper and then he was back in Manali. And then I went to Manali to speak with him. And luckily in Manali I got some ropes and some rescue kits. And he told me he let all the gear there. And I say, oh, interesting, what do you do with this stuff there? And then he'll say, aye, aye, if you take it, you can have it. And we're like, OK, this sounds like a deal.
So I got 100 meter rope and lots of other things for safety and I had my good choose with me and then I hiked up on Manali like maybe 1000 meter with round circle kilos. Then from this point I took off and then I flew to direction Parapengal because I was behind the glacier on on the river direction to Parapengal and he give me the coordinates and he told me the chopper pilot said, oh, I at least you put the glider very well. I can see very well the red color in the what just I remember.
So I flew above on 4000 and I looked down. I'm like, OK, this looks like a red point. This looks good. So I land on 4000. Then after I hack down and on up on the air, I saw already one place where it was flat where I can put my tent. So I went into the to prepare everything. And then I see also where I want to or where I was sleeping. There was everywhere, holes around. And for sure you see the even the pull from the bear. So I know there is some bears around.
But yeah, like what to do? They're not used to humans so much there because there is I think there is not much people there. So I was like OK, if something will happen and make some noise. So that put some sound on my speakers because I always fly with speakers. So I was like OK, if that is something happened, I put some noise even I went to sleep. Then I even looked some YouTube,
some videos. I download some videos just to remind me how how to make the knots proper again, because if you don't use long time, sometimes you forget. Yeah. Then I checked everything again and then I went to sleep. Even I had some noise. I put some music full on and then after half an hour turn it off and I start to sleep again. Yeah, the day after I just left my tent there. Then I hiked down and then I found the place where it was and it was like quite steep.
It was actually very steep. So I found one tree on the top. I put the rope on the top and then I went down to the water. The river. Yeah, actually it was very funny because it was like on the front and on the backside there was full of ice and more or less like full ice and glacier. And in the middle there was a hole where the guy fall in too. Luckily he got stuck before the river goes again under the water or under the ice. I was hiking on these places.
It was a little bit scary because it was everywhere cracks. But I hiked with my safety line and I was like OK in worst case get stuck on the rope. Then I hiked on the other side of the river and then I see it's not so deep. So I put all my clothes off and then I went in naked on this place to keep my stuff dry because if you go out of the water, of course it's super cold. It's a glacier water, you know,
it's super freezing. So I jumped there on the rock and then I see this harness and then I put see, OK, it looks not bad. OK, I put it on the side of course was full water and stuff. Then I try, I think it was Albania. I, I tried to get this glider out, but because it was already three or four days in the water because of bad weather, I tried to put it a little bit and it was like, so I say, OK, the glider I can forget because it's super stuck in the rock. And so I put the harness out.
I tried it a little bit. I put even the rest to no, I let everything together and I put it in my back. And then I climb up again on this place with my rope. And when I was in the top again, I keep going in the forest a little bit more. And then suddenly I heard some noise when I was hiking there. And then I look on the right side. I'm like, oh, oh, there was a bear 20 meters next to me. There was one bear.
And the bear also realized me and he turned around and then he stand there was a tree line and then he stand on the tree like this was looking me like then I was looking him. I'm like, oh, oh, then I make some noise and then make me a little bit bigger. And then suddenly he watched me two, three seconds. And then he turned around and there was very sleep. And then he started to run up there. I really hear how he was
breathing. It was like just like, because he was full running up and this was a scary moment. But also, yeah, I always wanted to see a bear, so I hit up my pocket. No way, man. Then after I hiked back to my tent and then I opened all the stuff and I tried the harness and I opened the reserve and tried everything. At this point I put everything my tent. Then I packed everything again and I think I slipped on three fives, so it was 500 meters to hike up again with all the stuff.
So then I packed my stuff and I looked on the other side of I looked on the other side of the other Ridge and then I'm like something is moving there and I'm like Philip, now you're so on there, you're getting crazy, you know. So I stopped again in the back and I looked again. I'm like, for sure it's moving. There is another bear bear, but was far away. It was not closed, but I was like a little bit scared because I had all my stuff.
I led some stuff from 4000 meter, my glider, my harness and I remember there were some almonds inside and was like oh hopefully the bear the other bear is not there and looking for my almonds so I can. Would be very shitty if they destroy your glider and then you're stuck there. There was also all the time sinking when I was hiking up to my glider. Wow. I mean, I don't know where to start. Yeah, but keep going. Keep going.
Yeah. And then up there, when I was up there, there was like 35 case wind, side wind because there was the glacier and I think there was the glacier down wind was pushing outside. So, so it was quite tricky, especially with two harness to take off. I had some rope. I put the other harness under my ass. And yeah, so it took me two or three takes off take offs because one time I got up and the glider was shooting and then I got the collapse and I was
again on the ground. And then on the third time or the second time I managed. But yeah, you cannot really proper move before this harness. The other one is behind your under you. So you're a little bit, I don't know how to say you'll feel very like you have another 50 kilomore or something like because you cannot move really proper. But somehow I managed. Then it takes me in the beginning a little bit of while
to get some nice hike. But then at one point I got the Super nice journey and then went up to 6550 I think. And then I start to fly to Parabang to the break in chamber. And then after I jump out, I get another good hike and then I jump out and jump charge you bus and come back to Peru. You know what? Let me start with this question. Was it worth it? Well, of course was nice adventure man.
No, I like these things to do. If I have one idea in my mind what I want to do, I will try, you know? You're kidding me, man. You had a beer 20 meters from you and you knew that was possible and you were going naked in glacier water and stuff like that. That's like, that's brutal, man. Like what kind of adventure are you chasing? What's your curiosity? Tell us about it. Let us into your mind a little bit. How do you approach these things? What?
What makes you do them? Yeah, in the end you just have to be safe on the landings. No, if you're good in the landings, then everything is good. No, you don't have to push so far. So you can even I had put for me like for 3-4 days if if I say, OK, I don't manage. I just make a bebop there and then try my time. But on the other side, I'm interesting, OK. I want to see the place where he land and this and that. And then I'm like, I'll get like more interesting. And then you get motivated.
I like down there. Oh yeah. OK. Oh yeah. Rope. OK. Yeah. Put down the rope on ice. Go down there with the rope. So this is a very nice thing what you can do. Yeah. Yeah. So basically, if I have to sum it up, it's like curiosity plus the confidence in your skills because you've worked for it, and the sense of adventure all basically come together when you design an adventure or when you design to go out there and chase our lighting, if I understand it correctly. Yeah, this is right.
I don't have to prove anything. Somebody like can do what they want and but this was for me a good mission. This sounds nice to pick up the harness so that it is to look very stuffed, very land. Let's talk a little bit about those days, man, because obviously you're flying for the majority of the day and you're making a lot of decision making and I believe para lighting does take a lot of energy. You know, it does make you tired. So sleeping at the end at the night is not a problem.
But then how do you spend your how did you spend your time when you were actually on the ground and when you were just, it was just you and absolute wilderness and not a human insight? What was what? What were you doing then? What what was your thought process and everything during that time? While you're in China, it can be not beautiful or not more beautiful than you alone in a mountain somewhere. I like it very much, so I I also
like it very much with friends. But if you're alone, it's also a special feeling and there is always something to do. Otherwise you hike up, sit on a rock and just watch a little bit. And yeah, I always never get boring there. Otherwise you'll make some nice music. You Can Dance a little bit. You should get a GoPro to record all of this plan. I think the world needs to know about what all you do.
Sometimes could be funny, yeah. 100% I think the the inside life of Philip Zelenor is is going to be even better than what what the world knows from the outside of over the Instagram or Internet as we know. Probably people will get mad. Interesting, interesting. Let let, let let's say when you are are are, are you into teaching or are you mostly into tandem or what's? How you tandem? But I'm thinking to do some guiding also.
But yeah, I don't have to. So it's OK if some people say, OK, they have they want really to do it with me and then they have a certain amount of money that I will do otherwise I also enjoy to fly by myself. This is for me also more important because I will work there a half year and that I don't fly much solo because of course you keep you busy, you have to make advertisement, you have to speak with people and sometimes speak with them that they fly with.
So even for the big days here in Australia, don't fly so much in Australia. And on the big days, actually I should. But yeah, you cannot do everything either. You decide that you make you take your holiday in the winter. You say, OK, I take my best days off here, but then you have to look. And maybe then I should do more guiding. But I like this is also a good one. I think just to be your student, like that was the curiosity when
I asked you that question. You have to be a special breed to be able to follow your instructions or whether where you take your guide as your clients land because you're pushing the limit as far as it stretches, I think. Yeah. But of course with the clients, I would not push that much because that's why this is the also the big thing where I like to fly by myself because then I can push my limits. And this feel like in competitions, most of the people, they are like pushing
not their limits. They pushing the limits because other people push. This is actually not the really good thing. If let's say you don't fly for a long time and then you go to competition and then they push because the other push, then it's getting there is more risk. Like for me, I only push when I feel confident. Sometimes I I feel not like pushing. It's always like, how is your feeling?
How is your day? You're a little bit tired or maybe sometimes you sleep not good, sometimes you sleep good. You feel like full power, then you try. But that's why for me it's always important when I go for fever, something I don't look so much about weight people. I know many people that come with sleeping mattress, sort of with very thin sleeping bag, you sleep not very near.
I don't care. I have my sleeping mattress, it's 1K1 KG. And also my sleeping bag is heavy, but it's a really good one. And this is for me more important that I don't freeze in the night. So I sleep very well. So then the next days you're like 1000% and then you can start again this. But I think if you do lots of feedback and we want to cross something, I think this is very important to do. No, I think what you're saying is that make sure you're well prepared for the adventure.
You don't sacrifice on that one and then you can chase the adventure as hard as you want to without being scared while the adventure is going on. Exactly because no, I would not always say I'm well prepared to have very good tear with me. But if I see other people, let's see like Francois Radovski, when he did this crossing, he had all my waypoints. He had some other waypoints where people were sleeping even. He told me I shall look there is what I look, there is this and
that. I'm like, OK, yeah, I did in a different way. Everyone can. This is very professional how he did for me. I was flying, I took, I take off at 10:00 or 11:00 me. I don't care to fly 100 kilometers or 150 or even 200. I was just like, I don't want to land down in the valley beyond hike. I just want to keep going with flying at 4:00. I always look for a place where I can land and even where I can some find some water or something. So mainly I was on the snow
line, close to the snow line. So there is always water, Yeah. Oh, sounds exciting. And I think I would like to touch upon the point that you said that when competition pilots are all of those ones, they try to fly not for themselves and they get influenced by the ones surrounding them. I think this is a very human thing that when you are trying to be better like competition as let's see who's the best. So everybody out there is trying
to be the best of the rest. And when that happens, it's it's subconsciously plays with your mind. And this happens even in the new beginner's course. I completely see that it happened with me, it happened with other students that I have seen, and it happened also in the intermediate pilot syndrome that you want to be better than the other crowd. You seem to be navigating that pretty successfully. The first thing is that you don't fly with the crowd. You make your own lines and you
make your own glory. But how do you is to not letting the others influence you, even though it is a very natural tendency for humans to get influenced by others? Is it difficult to say because even in the beginning I told you when my friend make the first full stall, I went also up to make the full stall. So I was also in this game. But yeah, it's also not bad sometimes, but it's always you have to think about how much you spend time in the air.
If you don't spend much time in the air, you don't push too much. It's very difficult to say. So I think we should let our listeners answer this question for themselves, pretty much. Yeah, you have to find by yourself the way how much you push, and I'm not here to tell people you are. You're not pushing. You should not push because everyone can do what they want and this is everyone's own SO. I see. Let's talk about the Nepal to India crossing, which I think
you did in record time. Was it was seven days or how long did you take? To completely India and Nepal was like 13 days, 1300 kilometers. And the previous record was, how many days was that? I don't know, I even don't didn't look before because this to me it's just happened because of the Corona thing. I say, OK, I will now go back to Austria as well, to Nepal. And then there are one guy or the one friend, he text me, he will also come to Nepal. I say, OK, if you have a house,
you can come. That is a nice room. You can spend there also your time. And then they actually they come up with the plan to fly to Kathmandu or close to Kathmandu. And I say, OK, this would be a nice mission. And even if I like it, they keep going further. So I flew from Pokhara to Director Kathmandu and yeah, first there was two other friends and he was flying together because they have the tent. One guy was not so fast.
So they stay together. And me, I keep going because I say, OK, I don't know if they come in. We said actually after 60 kilometres we meet there. But then I was not sure. And I say, OK, I keep going, I will see what's going to happen. And then I liked it so much that I crossed from Bokora into the east side, east side in four days. And then I was in Dharan in the city. I was flying there one day because it was a new spot for me. And then the day after I went back with the bus to Bokara.
And then I think I make one or two days break. Then I flew close to Anaborn. Now this was on my break day. Yeah, I make, I want to make. I can fly. And then I went to 5200 on close to Anaborn or two. And this was also very nice, beautiful flight. And the day after I make a rest and then I saw OK, and now I have again 4 good days, OK, I go to the West side of Nepal and then you have almost everyday 100 kilometers or even more. So you're telling me they're just going with the flow and
things just happen for you? Is, is that how your flying is? And it is that how it has been all your life? Not all my life but then I always say it's same with work or does something or do you get kicked out somewhere or I don't know but are you quit with the girlfriend? I always say one one door closed and the other one opened.
This is my way of thinking. I love it man, but you must have done some a lot of things right to be in that position because as you're trying like Annapurna or the handling the beer encounter in a calm manner or planning the whole harness rescue and smashing the records in the Himalayas with brand new lines and all of that. So what, what, what I'm curious is like, how did your hard work look like?
What all things like? There must have been times when you're like, Oh my God, this is so tiring. But I know I have to do this to get better at flying. So can you talk to our audiences a little bit about like, how did you reach this place in your flying career? Like where did you put in the effort? Yeah, actually I don't push that. I have to do. It's always OK. I feel good too. I fly around even sometimes, if not the biggest flight, this means not like this is the best
flight. So if just you fly, I don't know, half an hour and they're even much more beautiful than the other big flights. What I have done all the time, it's very difficult to say because you make a record. This is the best flight. It's just a number. And the other thing is more like just enjoy what you do and then
it will come by themselves. I feel like, but also when I make this, when I make the beer record at this 272 flying to Kashmir on the border towards my end of the crossing, actually, I will say, OK, I want to go to this end of the border of Himachal. So I started to fly there and because of other friends he he left earlier, I said, OK, maybe it would be nice to come back. And then I come back and then I jump above Charles to pass. I see 240 kilometers.
What was the record? So actually I decided in the last maybe 2-3 hours to make the record. This was not didn't plan it. Sometimes I do, but this time I was not planning it. And then I was like the last three hours. OK, OK, go after 360. OK, turn around, fly back. You see? The smile on your face tells me they want to find your lad chasing all these adventures. Man, that's super nice.
But I think you are the definition of keeping it fun and then doing it because a lot of times I've had my guests say, and I've heard a lot of senior finals say that as long as it's fun, you should keep on doing it. From you it it seems like you you pretty much do have a lot of. Fun. If you try to chase it too much, it will not come. It will only come when you take it easy.
But for me also when I went to Colombia, I had also I should try to break the record, but there was like was trying too much I feel like. So then I realized also why to fly the same route every day. I'm like OK, fuck that cheap man or not, I'm here to enjoy. So I do what I want. Then I make a also a very nice speed work and I also then I realized that's why I'm here for it to do this what I like to do.
Not to chase this record. So it's just, there are just numbers or even if you make a short flight there, you fly 100 kilometre in One Direction, it can be much, it gives you more back. I feel like when you fly 100 to the not 100 time, but maybe you fly 1015 times, always the same route and try to push a little bit more there, push a little bit more there, then you look always off your average speed.
You're not fast, so you push more and then you end up somewhere down there because he was like, fuck, I have to keep the speed. And yeah, so it's better you are. Just take it easy and go with the flow and then things can happen as you. Let me ask you this, Philippe. Do you have your flaws? Do you, Are there times when you're angry with yourself at all? Why did I do this? Or I could have done better or something. Like, do you do you face those challenges as well in your
flying? Well, of course you can, but on the other hand you can be also why why you can be always worse. I could be already land there, so I'm already still in there positive things. So life now if your focus always more positive Yeah, it's better. No, even when I remember 1 friend of mine he was quite down because of something happened and some bad stories. And then I told him yeah, but good now no, even you cannot go more deeper now.
It can be only going more after he was laughing and he said actually you're true now I love the point of view. Man, it's and it's, it's so much easier said than done, but the moment you're able to make peace with that, that it could have been worse. And I'm so glad for that it was there. That's I think that is a way to unlocking a lot of good things in life. 100% yeah, I think so
too. This is you think too much negative is not good, No is there always positive and you will always find some positive things in your life and premature. I want to talk a little bit about your. Inspirations Philippe have you had mentors in the sport have you like how has your teachings been or what are the pilots that you have looked up to and how how has that journey been for you in in your flying career? Yeah, actually I had some very. Good mentors, they was flying on
all these competitions. So they was on the top in the earlier days. And this was quite helping me a lot because I remember when we were sitting together and we there was all the old computers, you know, and there was just YouTube, I think was almost new. And then you look videos with them and then you're like, ah, you see this guy makes a collapse. You see he crashed. And because of that and because he don't react, you see, then they explain you how to make collapse and stuff.
And then the day after they fly next to you and say, Ah, no, it's your turn. Then he make next to you the collapse. Ah, you can fly straight with the collapse. And then you try and then in the beginning, of course you're scary, but and you're OK, OK, what he told me yesterday, I have to pull the right side and make a little bit way. Chief told you not too much and this and that. And then you see actually it's true. And then it's also the good
thing if you believe on them. I see also another friend. He was always making some mistake. And then they told him, hey, you make this and this mistake and he didn't get the input. So he was always like doing the same. He didn't change what he told him. This is also when some good people or some acro people would fly very good and they tell you something for sure. He see what which mistake you make. If you say, OK, this is the mistake, OK, I tried to do this a little bit different and I
know it's working. OK. Thank you very much. You know, now I think sharing. Experiences is very important in our community, definitely when, especially when you share risky situations and learn from each other, that goes a very long way. And, and, and the role of mentorship in, in, in developing sound decision making skills is, is also, I think pretty important in, in navigating the spectrum of risk versus reward
in paragliding. What kind of makes me curious is that how do you place a trust factor in someone that you are taking knowledge from? Of course, first of all, it's the willingness of sharing the knowledge of the person, right? He can be one of the best pilots, but if he's not willing, he or she is not willing, then of course, it's very difficult
to place your trust factor. But once you have had that, OK, this person is willing to share, how, how did you figure out whether the person is trustworthy or not or whether those informations that are coming from him are valuable for you to intake or not? Because that is another Gray area which I see a lot of pilots in, but. This is also difficult to find out you know, some people are very good and some people are not so very good.
In explaining meet example, I remember my ex-girlfriend, she was always asking me how to make this and this I'm like how it works. I just do it. And then you have it was also difficult to me. I have to remember how I do because if you do things, a lot of times you get used too and you know how to do, but you don't think anymore. Like with the acro maneuvers you make Misty and then how to explain Misty, OK, you have to pull on this side, but the other side you also stabilize a little
bit, especially in the end. And so it's then you're again, if you start this maneuver so that if you're just doing the learning in the beginning, then you remember, then you remember more, I would say, because then you do, you try always something new and OK, this is because of that. But then if you fly to this maneuver, since I don't know, 5-10 years and then you don't think about too much.
So for me, sometimes it's also difficult to explain some people how to make this maneuver because I do it too many times already forget to explain actually. So it's sometimes even if it's a good pilot, this can be the same like me, explain sometimes some things is maybe not so good but I'll try sometimes to keep my best. I love your honesty man. Love your honesty in this regard
and that's so nice. I think what a lot of audiences, audience members are curious about and have been wanting to ask you this is that why don't you compete bro? What's stopping you from smashing excels or experience or any of these? I can flies when you live that for so long, if you're comfortable answering that. Yeah, I'm actually. The thing is there is many things competing is always saying why you do that. It's more for what I would like to do.
The Trilix helps if I can get in and stuff like that. But on the other hand, it's my man time where I make my money. So it's again then you have to find some sponsor. It's a lot of work. It's not only about physical to get feet and to get better and flying and experience and going the route and looking for the places. It's also more in the background. Lots of paperwork and yeah. And you look at the outlets there taking full power and then then what they get.
I know what you mean, right? I know what you mean. We don't have to go there, don't worry. Let's stay in different way. I would like to complete. Itself with you for sure. Very good adventure I think as well. Could be very funny as well. For sure. Suffering as well of course. Look at them just running all the time. If there is bad weather, which OK, go, no, but yeah, it's always why just that you can say I compete the six Alps. Yeah, it would be nice for the adventure for sure.
But then I have to find some people who taking care of my company. Because now in the moment, my company is quite well on my Internet seems looks very good. And if if I give my company to somebody who messed it up, then I was working for the last couple of years very hard. I was working very hard the last couple of years. For that my company is very proper and a good level. Now I have also very good pilots in my company. Yeah, I don't want to mess this up.
This is lots of degrees. Why I'm not competing yet? Definitely and passion projects. Take a lot of effort to reach up to a certain level and I can only have respect for the amount of work that you must have put into this passion project of
yours, the T Roll air. So if any of our listeners are are interested to fly tandems in, in Austria, in the in the town of T Roll, I think we're going to put your website in the show notes and they can reach out to you and get a little bit of a glimpse of the amazing flights and all these epic adventures that you bring in into their lives with you.
You're most welcome. Only I was even thinking to do like in India, but just for pilots, if somebody say, ah, OK, I want to fly somewhere in the back mountains and guiding or like coaching. But if the tandem, because then you have the people on the front of you and you can explain them straight why you do that, because this of that and the wind of that. And then the German comes up there, you can explain much more because you feel confident
because they don't have to fly. Because if you do coaching example, I would say then the people already in a place or they have to take the terminal, they're already stressed. So I think it's also a very good way to do this coaching on the tandem. So if there is somebody interested, you can ask me also for that in India to fly in the back mountains with me with the tandem.
Wow, are you? Offering possible beer encounters as well if if requested on extra charges or beer sightings somewhere during the flight. Because I think you know a lot about Black Mountain and where the wildlife is now, considering how much you've been there so many times. Yeah, if somebody will to do. That then they are able to pay something then it will be possible. And I am also happy to fly by
myself. I said all the before, it's like more my holiday, but I'm really some people are really interested in it and say, OK, why? And then they would say or that they would see that they can learn a lot of that because in the end, the guiding or coaching should be just could be that they get a little bit better and feel more confident. And I feel like you you can how to explain this. You can be like more like a
sponge. You get more input or you can keep it because on the radio or you talk with the other guys flying by himself and you just try to explain it's we'll go in on the other side of the air and go out on the other side because already focus on being in the air and don't mess it up or something like this. Sometimes it's bumpy conditions then you're a full focused on this to stay in this thermal and on the tandem and behind of them. And then I can tell them a little bit pumpy.
But yeah, we will manage and then we will do that and then we take the Valley win. We go a little bit longer if the Valley win because we're a little bit faster and this and that. And yeah, I think it's a coaching. I know I I completely.
Agree, sharing knowledge is is the best way to spread it and I think especially at at your caliber, one-on-one coaching will be really beneficial for the ones who are going in for it. So definitely for our listeners who are interested, contact Philippe in the show notes and we will have all the details there on how to reach him when he's on the ground. When he's in the air, you can only look up and try and spot him somewhere in the sky. Continue you cannot say see on Caribbean.
That's good. That's good to have a spot. Very agreed that everyone should fly with a spot but me. I did all my stuff, but I did all everything about the in rich. I don't know, I feel like it's different. You have to more they care about it anyway. You have to take care of it. You're not like because I have a in rich. I can be stupid and make stupid decisions. It's always, yeah. But I say also, I know what is the risk of doing that, and I'm OK with that because, yeah, I
love to fly like this. And I always say if I don't have it, I don't need it. It's always good to have a backup. I think that is what I'm going to endorse to the audiences and it's always good to fly over the spot in GPS. So please make sure you choose make that decision wisely. There is also There is some. Climb bars to climb without rope. There is also like a reason why I feel like it's different.
So if you look at the solo climb bar without rope, without anything might told you lots of risk. But there is the special feeling. And then I think we are again back in the adrenaline stuff. So if it's smarter than not, actually not, but no actually I can resonate to. That and I, let's talk a little bit about this, because I was doing via ferrata a few days back somewhere here in Norway and it was a fairly difficult
climb. It was, it required some level of skill and some level of strength and everything. But there was a time in my climb when I realized that the Caribbeaner, the Securian Caribbeaner, which was connected to the rope, was just giving a mental piece. I wasn't really using it. I wasn't really putting my load on it. And of course, when you look down and we look around you, you're like, Oh my God, this
isn't so exposed. I'm right on the edge of the mountain on the ledge and anything could happen. But just because you have a carabiner, your heart rate isn't shooting up, your mind isn't going very crazy, but because there's is is mentally you're feeling very secure because you have a security. So what I do understand is that of course it is possible to take away that security of the carabiner and the rope and do it.
But what I don't understand is that when will you reach a decision that, yes, now it is OK to remove that carabiner. Now I want to go full focus only on climbing and not on that because in reality it is just, let's say, reserve. It's just a mental piece, right? Yeah, well, that's a mental piece. Yeah, so. That that is a such a difficult question because I'll tell you what I don't. I would call it stupidity because I flew without a reserve for a few flights when I was a
90 hour old pilot. Although there were some logistical reasons for it and everything like that. But to be honest I did not feel I did not feel scared or I did not feel that I was doing something stupid. I just felt normal and this was in beef. Although just for our listeners perspective, as soon as I got a reserve in 2-3 days, I deployed it as well for the first time in my life. I don't know if was I stupid flying without a reserve, but I was flying safe.
And then the moment I got a reserve, I was like, all right, let me just push the bar. Let me just do this. Do you have anything to talk about this topic, anything to say on this? This is very difficult line. To say, I mean, come on man, we are being open to. Each other. Let's talk about difficult things. There's no better person than you to talk about difficult things. No. And then it's as you feel, no? I was also with my father one time on how you call it.
We are. We are ATA and very bad. Yeah, yeah. And then? He took the rope and I said, OK, I will, I will make it without because I was hiking just already one or two times before and I feel hard. It's not so difficult. And I just want to know how you feel different. And then I hacked up without and it was everything was good and was possible and was not too difficult. But it's only a mental. These things are mostly mental. And I think it's also funny to play this mental game.
Yeah, but this is again, I don't know, call it stupid, but what is secure in the life? This is the other question, right of the street we can have anywhere in the accident. Most of the people, they die in the bedroom. Would you like to? Say that having no security makes us more secure because we don't take as many unnecessary risks. If we have to sum up this topic. Yeah, I don't know. I try always never to take risk if I have some safety stuff with me.
So it's yeah, All right. I think we can leave it at. That and let let the audiences decide for themselves. Although it's a very difficult question, but answers are very individualistic and people can only answer for themselves. Yeah, I think it's better. Let's be politically correct. For for for this one in here. But for the we are reaching the end of time and before before I try to wrap, before I start to wrap it up, I just want to know have you had to deal with any
setbacks in in your career? Have you had to deal with challenges? And if yes, then what was your strategy in overcoming them and making sure that they never come back again or anything like that challenge? You mean if you make? Some mistakes or something like this, let's say of. Course no. Sometimes many. Times you make mistakes. No, but it's also, I remember one time in Guatemala, I fall in my lines and then I just hardly opened my rescue and I was on
the ground. But this I was not scared after to fly because I know what I make, which mistake I made. No, so it's always depends. If you know what was the problem, I think then you're not too scared. But if you're don't know what's going on, what was happening, then I think you have a problem because you don't know what's what's the problem. So the knowledge gap basically.
You're saying as long as you have the knowledge then fixing it is easy and if you don't have then it's a grey area that that might be scary to navigate? Yeah, if you make a problem. And you don't know what's going to what was happening. If you get the collapse and you don't know why because you don't react to the something, then you will be always scared about the collapses. You have a collapse and then OK, I bumped 2-3 times. Now it's open again. Carded. Carded while we're talking about
this. One, do you have a certain way of risk assessment while you plan out your adventures? What's your thought process? Because I know you're very spontaneous and you like going out, as you've explained in the past almost an hour in the show, but what still what? How do you start thinking about an adventure? How do you start? Like how do you visualize is I think what I was asking visualize. I don't think too much is something better. No easier way. No, I just go with the flu
mainly. I go with my feeling what I have in my stomach even sometimes I tried to push and I said oh it's a good day I should do something. Then if I feel like I know, I just turn around and sometimes I've like in beer example, I try to fly and I see then I try and then I feel like I feel not good. So I fly back and land on golf course. I play a little bit around and say, OK, take it easy, don't worry, everything is good. No, it's like even if I miss, it's a good day. I say I just enjoy.
But I remember last year or at this time I was like, it was a good day. But then I was like. Somehow feels a little bit wrong. So I flew back. I land in the Hot Springs. I heck down. I was sitting one hour in the hot water, enjoy my time there. I heck up again. I fled back out and I'm super happy to do that. People come back. I did this nice big flight. I'm like, oh, I did this nice big mission or the big mission, small mission in the Hot Springs.
Oh, I love it, man. I. Love your outlook at the whole adventure, the way you changed it, and it seems like you're at peace with the reward and of course the risk versus reward. And that's I think the best way to navigate it. It's so foolproof. Yeah, I never have time because if I go somewhere, I take my time. I don't go there for two weeks. People go in there for two weeks. Of course they have to push you want to more. For me, I say OK, if it's not happened, I don't care, you
know? Got it, Got it, Philippe. I think Philippe, before we wrap it up, usually there's a tradition on paralleling Atlas where I ask my guests to share 11 flight that has stood out from their lives that that they can remember. I'll be very thankful if you can share with our audiences one such airtime that you've had, which kind of stuck with you and which you're very thankful, and which you've looked, be it a be it a pleasant or unpleasant 1, whatever your choice. Yeah, the hacking fly.
Was nice. It was not really nice for my friend, but it was also a nice adventure because I went just for a hacking fly and then I went to golf course. I went there and then somebody told me my friend crashed on Big face. And then they say ah, you come down and then you open because he was sleeping with me in the same room. And then they say ah, we need the passport and blah blah blah. They say no, I will not go there. Like go to Big Face.
Where is my friend lying? So I took off again and then only with shorts. So I land on 3000 meter with shorts and then luckily Debu was also landing there and Alex, one other Austrian guy was already before there. And then we had to spend the whole night I think 2428 hours till the chopper come. We have to spend there on the mountain stream. And it was crazy. It was for him, super painful sometimes. But in the end, it was a story I will never forget.
I have a good friend, one of the best friend, and he's lying there and he's suffering. But yeah. And then this was managed to have as good time as possible. And even when he was laughing, sometimes he was like, oh, it's so painful. But I'm like, oh, sorry. Yeah. But at the end now everything is good. Now we can laugh about this things now. But yeah, at one point I was already very sad. But luckily everything went on the good timeline. Yeah. Love it, man. And I think.
Camaraderie and airmanship is such an important part of our sport, and the way your actions were that they probably helped your friend mentally a lot, which was way more important than any anything else. So good to hear that, Philippe. I wish they make more pilots like you in the air and also on the ground. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you should. Open up a Philippe Philippe Zelander training Academy or something like that for yeah, spread the knowledge from that.
The podcast can only reach so many people. Your teaching has to influence more. But yeah, of course, I think you're doing whatever you can in your own way, yeah. All right. Philippe, I think on that note, it is a perfect time to call it
quits for now. Although your adventures and your stories are endless and I think we can definitely hope to bring you back whenever next possible for you with a new topic so we can share and spread the word of paragliding and everything around it to our audiences and your followers and fans. So for now, it's been an absolute pleasure and honor, Philippe, and I hope you touch the sky with glory and time to come, as you have been so far. Yeah. Thank you very much.
For your time to have you in your show and probably see you soon in India or somewhere. Sounds like a plan man as. Long as it's your time, I'm in.