Hi, everybody. Welcome to another edition of Packers Unscripted from Packers dot Com. I am Mike Spoffer, joined as always by my partner in crime West and Hodkowitz. We're coming to you here from our studios at lambeau Field and Wes. The mandatory Mini camp is here, which means this is the final week of the off season program. And actually, shortly after we are done recording this episode, we'll be heading out to the practice field for the first of
two mini camp days. So here's what we're going to Dossell.
No no.
On our next show, which will be Thursday, we will review Mini Camp and share our observations and our coverage, press conferences, locker room interviews, everything that we get. But right now, and this will be our final week of shows for the off season. Then we'll be back during training camp. So right now what I want to do. And I didn't give you a heads up on this, This show truly is unscrewed.
I showed up like five minutes before the show and you and you are.
At my mercy quite often in this setting. But we are just going to use this show as an overview of the Packers off season and how we got here, So I'm gonna just throw some different questions at you. Some of them we might dive into some discussion. Others could be quick hitters. We will see where this goes. First one, for you, what was the in a very busy off season in Green Bay? What was the biggest piece of news that came out of twelve sixty five Lombardi Avenue?
First off, when was the last time you and I, in eight years of working together, have been like quick hitting about anything that's true. We could talk for fifteen minutes about kicking competition, that's no issues whatsoever.
Things don't get so rapid fire on this show unless we intentionally say this is a rapid fire sentiment.
For me, I'm gonna I don't want to It's something we've talked at nauseum about, so I don't want to be labor it. But it was the answers that Christian Watson and Eric Stokes got regarding their hamstring injuries, because I felt, like Mike, a lot of times we do feel somewhat in the dark about injuries and exactly what
guys are going through. Tip of the Cap two to Tucker Craft and Zach Tom They also were very forthcoming about the shoulder injuries that they sustained, the peck injuries, I should say sure throughout the off season program, and I think that helps the clarity of the situation, understanding what these guys are doing and understanding where their bodies are.
But let's be honest about it, Mike, probably you probably wrote the most salient, poignant, important story of the off season last week when you looked at this whole thing about receiver A one, A, one, B, whatever you want to call it. Right the fact the Packers don't have that traditional number one guy. But the reality is when you look at Christian Watson's makeup, if he's on the field, he is the guy that everybody has to take into
account for. It doesn't matter if you're a cornerback, doesn't matter if you're a safety, maybe even a linebacker with the way he sometimes will be in the slot. Christian Watson is the ultimate chess piece if you can get him on the field. And it feels like the Packers were able to do that with going down to Madison, getting the answers at Badger Athletic Performance Understanding that is a resource the NFL invested into and something they could
tap Into. Was there anything in there that the training staff didn't already know? Probably not, But understanding one's body I think has become a really important thing because for so long it might it was just NFL players. They hurt in a hamstring injury, you stay off it for a little bit, and you go back out there. There's so much more to this thing. Watson, Reed, Dobbs, Melton, Wicks.
The list goes on and on of receivers the Packers have, but when Christian Watson is on the field, the defense has to take notice.
Yeah, and for me, the biggest news of this off season, I don't know if it necessarily qualifies as news, but it's related to what was really the biggest news story of the entire offseason, which was the change at defensive coordinator, which if Hafley coming in. But in terms of the off season program and the news to come out of it, it's that there really is an attitude shift on the defensive side of the ball. It's not just what the
coaches are saying. We're hearing it from the players in the locker room in terms of the aggressive mentality, in terms of the different things that they're being asked to do and the enthusiasm and the excitement for it. Obviously, it's still going to come down to results once that ball kicks off in Brazil against the Philadelphia Eagles. It's all about what you do on the field, whether you
win or lose, and the results that you get. But there is no mistaking the attitude shift that has happened, I think on the defensive side of the ball, and I think the fact that that was confirmed by the players that we talked to in the locker room over the last several weeks. It's not just the coaches, it's the players are feeling it as well. My next question for you, now, this this doesn't just include like from when the offseason program started. I'm talking about the offseason
in general. The most important player acquisition, whether you're talking free agency, draft, whatever, the most important player acquisition the Packers made this offseason.
Xavier McKinney. Josh Jacobs was important, especially when it became known that Aaron Jones is not going to be back. But Mike, when the season ends, you always have a feeling of where the Packers need to improve. It could be a defensive coordinator, it could be in a different phase of the game or an aspect of the game red zone, but player for player, it became pretty clear throughout the course of last year they need a long term solution at safety, and they put a lot of
resource through the draft into that position. But it all started with twenty four year old Xavier McKinney coming on board. And actually, it's funny yesterday one of the big topics in a video I was doing with Tom Grossi during his little telethon to not Little. It was a huge telethon to raised over eighty thousand dollars.
Congrats to Congrats to Tom.
For that because it pushes him over a million lifetime for a little over three years of all this charitable life.
Incredible work.
But one of the things I told him about was it is so rare in the National Football League to see a safety of McKinney's caliber who started as many games as he did, basically a starter since he walked in the door of New York and he hit unrestricted for agency at twenty four years old, and Brian Gudikuin sort of talked about that this offseason. It was the
perfect storm with McKinny. It's the reason why they really highlighted him as a must in a top you know, free agent target, and now that he's in the building, Yeah, we'll see what happens in training camp. We'll see what happens. Well,
he looks on the pads, come on. But the leadership role he's taken with a very young secondary and the way he's kind of jibed so far and meshed with Jay R Alexander, I think it's really exciting and I don't think there's any other way you can say then that was the marquee signing they needed it to be. And when you talk about a captain, when you talk about a guy that's still on the come up, I think McKinney is everything you could hope for in a free agent edition.
Yeah, and it's the classic. It's the classic Brian gutakunt signing, right, because when you go back to the other year in his tenure is GM when Gutakuntz made the big splash in free agency. Of course, that was twenty nineteen, and you know, on that first day he goes out and gets Zadarius Smith and Preston Smith and Adrian Amos and these were guys that they had they had completed their rookie contracts. They were not guys who were you know,
pro bowlers are all pros. But they were targeted. They were at the top of the market, and they were targeted because the Packers felt their best football was in front of them. And for all three of those guys on the defensive side of the ball in nineteen proved to be right. Obviously, Preston Smith is still here and still playing pretty good football, but all of those guys played better football in Green Bay then they played anywhere else in their careers, quite frankly, And that's what the
Packers are counting on with Xavier McKinney as well. But he's that he's a player, a player whose arrow is pointing up and the best is yet to come.
Because so many times Mike teams will lock down a guy after that first rookie contract, you know, and you don't see them hit the market after four years. And McKinney was a former second round pick, so there wasn't a fifty year option type of deal right with the Giants, And obviously they'd already messed around with the franchise tag a little bit before that. But these are the type of signings that when you look at the free agents that come to market. You could do it for two
or three years. You're not going to see a player like that.
Yeah, I agree. Next question, most surprising news of the off season, it's.
Kings Lanning baris practicing. I mean that one most surprising news. It's a good one. I I was sitting I've told you this story. I probably have said it down on scripted too, but you know, sometimes people don't listen to every one of them. We got done in Dallas and it was a joyous moment that locker room. The vibe in there, it was. It was right up there with twenty sixteen at the end to run the table the regular season. In Detroit, guys were just over the moon.
And then you see Kingsley kind of behind a pillar, numbered Packers, defensive coaches condoling, consoling him. He has a towel over his head. They're fearing for the worst here that he tore his acl And probably the reason why maybe it shouldn't be as big of a surprise as I'm making it out to be is the fact that a week later, when the season does end, after Santa Clara, he's standing in his locker doing interviews no crutches, no wheelchair.
But confirming that he apparently tore his ACL. So that left us all. We all headed into the off season like what exactly is going He's walking around like everything is totally normal, but yet he confirmed the injury that we all had feared. So but a few months later, here we are.
But it gets even weirder because the first week of the off season program, we're not in there yet, but you know, Evan Siegel's down there taking photos and eddig Bari's running around hoops and he's doing all these athletic exercises and I'm like, man, that doesn't look like a guy that had reconstructive knee surgery, right. People are asking
about that inbox. I'm like, well, you know, sometimes guys bounce back from these things quicker than others because I'm just predisposed to thinking that he had the surgery right exactly, And no, he did not have the surgery. He had an ACL related injury. And I've said this last week in three things. I mean, he's been playing and looking really good in practice. He blew up the two minute drill for the number one offense last week, had forced
them to start kicking after kind of. I guess you'd call it a sack or a disruption at the end of the third downplay in the two minute that set up the field goal kicking competition. Yeah, Packers are super deep there, Mike. I mean, that's the thing that's really exciting about this thing. And Kenny Clark made that joke
earlier this offseason about our entire group. It's like this big position now between the interior guys you know, now married up with the the edge guys, but with as you mentioned, Preston Smith, Orshan, Gary King, Xiannigbari, Lucas van S. I thought Brenton Cox had some really nice work this offseason. Got to keep them all in the field. But that is shaping up to be one heck of a rotation.
Yeah, I'm gonna turn back the clock a little further. The most surprising news for me still is where the Green Bay Packers backfield is for twenty twenty four, because I would not have thought in a million years that when the off season began that Aaron Jones would be a Minnesota Viking and the Packers would have Josh Jacobs, aj Dillon a third round draft pick, and Emmanuel Wilson that that would be the group that we'd be looking at.
Still hard for me to see Aaron Jones with you know, in these promo shots for the Vikings with their uniforms and all that kind of stuff. But to me that that's that's one of the most surprising off season roster moves I can recall in my time here, which is actually approaching. Well, this will be my nineteenth season here coming up covering for Packers.
You and uh Mercedes Lewis there, Yeah, nineteen years. I just put that together down. I arrived.
I arrived at Packers dot com in two thousand and six right after Mercedes Lewis was drafted.
Whose NFL career is gonna last longer?
See, I think he's I think he's got a lot more to be proud of than I do. But that being said, I'll move on to the next question. Anybody, and this is always a hard one, but who do you see making potentially the biggest of the proverbial second year jumps amongst the Packers rookie class from last year heading into year two?
Carrington Valentine. Okay, now we have to see what the opportunity is going to look like. You know, Eric Stokes is back. Carrington is a perimeter cornerback. But again going back to our three things video last week and Larry beat me to it, I can't believe the strides that Valentine has made in five months, a little less than five months.
Yeah, just in terms of just in terms of his physical.
Statues, his physical makeup is remarkable. Ye. I mean this is a guy again that played in the two, the one eighties last year, was one of the lighter guys on the roster. Looked like a twenty one year old rookie physically, and he came back and he looks like a grown man. And Larry I think had mentioned he's right around the two hundred pound mark. Now you got to make that weight work for you. You know there's
a lot involved with that. But Valentine, man, this guy, I'll tell you what, dude, for a seventh round pick. Who again, I'll say it over and over again because a lot of people will crap on mel Kiper, But mel Kiper was begging people to take this guy in the draft. He kept falling the fifth and he was an early entry, early entry, could he still had some.
College eligibility left, and he's he's hanging out there on the board. My point is he came to Green Bay not just as a seventh round pick, but as a really young guy. Yes, and and and that sort of even led to, you know, even a greater tendency to just dismiss him, to say he's just a developmental player. We won't see much of him for a couple of years. Well that's not how it turned out.
And it's weird too, is I would put him up there against anybody in terms of guys that were the off season program, training camp MVPs. Uh. He was a guy that made himself undeniable even when the Packers were so deep at cornerback and there were some practices that
Jaiere wasn't participating in. There were some injuries that had happened obviously with Eric Stokes, but he just kept climbing the depth chart, and to the point where when it became clear that you know, Jaiere was going to miss some time, Eric was going to be out for a while, Russell Douglas gets traded, it became a no brainer that he was a starter for the team. Twelve starts in
the regular season, was out there in the postseason. I mean, the workload that he built up in the resume that he built in year one, and then the presence of mind to the determination to then work towards already improving himself physically for the next year. You never know how it's gonna work out until you see it on the field. But you asked me about second year jumps. Physically, the guy's already made it.
Yeah, yeah, And the other guy, I would say that I'm very curious about because of what we've seen from just the change in his physical body as physical statures. Colby wood in the defensive lineman he appears to have put on you know, I think he's told reporters is right around twenty pounds or so. Maybe it's in that fifteen to twenty pound range. And again we have to
see how it translates to the field. Obviously he's also going to be making a switch as all these guys are into the new defense with the new coaching staff. There very curious in that respect where things go for Colby Wooden. I always like to reframe because, as I said, it's a tough question, the whole second year jump thing. I always like to reframe it from the standpoint of who's second year jump could benefit the Packers the most, right, And there are two guys that come to mind for me.
One is Jaden Reid, not because he necessarily has this huge jump to make, but when you talk about Christian Watson, and as we've talked about in the receiver discussion before, about how Watson is the guy that dictates how defenses defend you, and they scheme differently when he's on the field. If Jaden Reid makes a second year jump, yeah, he has. He has the potential to be a guy that dictates
things to defenses in that same way. And so that that's where I'm curious in that respect and what impact a second year jump from a guy like Reid could have. The other one I would say, in terms of who's secondyear jump would benefit the Packers the most, I think it's Andras Carlson. Yes, if he can smooth out the ups and downs from his rookie season and become the kicker that the Packers drafted him to be, which is
a guy who's going to be reliable and consistent. Obviously, no kicker is perfect, but if he's a guy that can settle in and establish his pro career in Green Bay, for the long term, foreseeable future. I think that would be a huge benefit to this team right now, with all of these players on the rise and with Jordan Love trying to take this team to the next level.
Yeah, I agree with you, And that's why we talked about last week with Anders. You just hope the competition you can get that you know where it's pushing you a little bit. You have those type of competitive periods like they did at the end of last week's practice to be able to really show who's the best. And you know, Greg Joseph had a good comment on the me vers me thing. That's what all kickers have to do. I mean Tim mass Day was really big on that.
He always said, even when he would want win competitions or even when he'd be the only punter on the roster, he always said, specialists is the only position where there is no playbook. A guy can come in and play the following week if they have to. Yeah, and I think having that healthy fear of your job can be a good thing. And for Andres, the one thing I always cautioned the fans about. I understand the extra points were what they were. He still made his field goals
last year at an eighty two percent clip. Doesn't always happen that way for rookies right out of the gate. That was actually a pretty solid number.
But you have that's that's the thing is and I think the thing that it's easy to forget because of all the ups and downs that Carlson went through as the year went on, but he started his NFL career five consecutive games without missing a kick. He made every field goal and every extra point for the first five games of the season before the roller coaster, you know kind of thing started. So that's that's part of his body of work. It's something for him to draw and
he knows that it's there. The Packers know that it's there. But again, as I said on last week's show, the Packers are contenders. You can't you can't wait forever for that position to come around you. You've got to have a guy that you can really trust and feel is gonna be reliable and consistent, and that's what the Packers are hoping to get at the end of this competition. I have a couple of more questions for you, but we got gonna get paid. I'm gonna take care of
sponsor business here before I forget serious. XM NFL Radio delivers hard hitting analysis and up to the minute NFL news that true football fanatics need, twenty four to seven, three sixty five and had Cousin Subs. We have something for everyone like our Wisconsin Cheese cards, mac and Cheese, golden fries, and creamy shakes, all paired with your favorite sub or sub in a bowl. Cousin Subs fifty plus years of better. All right, A couple more questions for you,
Wes One. I think you got this one in Insider inbox recently, but I'm gonna throw it at you again. Who's return from injury from twenty twenty three would be most important to the Packers in twenty twenty four.
The answer to this, I answered it in a different way because I answered from more of the emotional standpoint of Eric Stokes. I think if Stokes is back, I think the uplifting kind of presence that's gonna bring to the team is gonna be important. Listen to Gyr Alexander talk to talk about him and all these guys. You could tell the I mean, mattin Flure's comments speak for themselves. Yeah, very popular, very just a good human and I think
everybody kind of rallies around that. I will say this, and I already talked about Watson, so I'm not gonna go into that anymore. So basically, I'm taking all these answers by the way, okay, unless you want to talk about them. Luke Musgrave and Tucker Craft. You saw me at practice that one day when Kraft came out with the sling, Yeah, and I was so demoralized. Dubovsky even
asked me, like, are you gonna be okay? Because I was the number one person in inbox and on any platform just riding the train about Okay, Musgrave and Craft, it's time. They're both they're both established, they're both healthy. It's all gonna work out now, it still will. I'm not worried about that. But then Kraft ends up tearing the pack. Right. So but I'll tell you what, Mike, those two guys together, when you draft back to back at that position, you're hoping one of those guys is
a year one contributor. They both contributed when they needed to contribute, and they contributed in different ways. That was the beauty of the way that Brian Goodcun's drafted that position. Two tight ends, but two different type of guys. One that comes from the West Coast. One that's an FCS guy that's kind of the blue collar dude that took himself from being you know this, this rough and ready just make plays guy at a lower level football to
a dude that was making plays all over the field. Yeah, last season. So Craft and Musgrave together in tandem, if you can get the two tight end stuff going with those two, I think the possibilities mixed with those receivers, it's just absolutely limitless.
Yeah. My answer, my answers are the same yours on the defense, six of them on the On the defensive side, you think mostly about Stokes and on the offensive side, I think mostly about the tight end situation. Particularly we saw Musgrave come back last year and then you know he has the big long touchdown in Dallas that was part of the blowout win in the wild card game. But then now Tucker Craft has an injury to come back from. Hopefully we see him back, you know, sooner
than later in training camp and all that. So those are those are definitely the ones that that the eyes are on the most as well as, of course Christian Watson and what he means to this offense when you think about the fact that he had a stretch of what was it, eight touchdowns in four or five games as a rookie, and then right before he got hurt sort of for the final time last year, he had just scored four touchdowns in a three game span, and then the play on the far sideline against Kansas City
where the hamstring goes out again and you're and you're you know, it's like he's just you know, finding his groove again and making the impact that everybody knows he can make. And then he goes to the sideline again. So those are all of those, collectively the obvious answers to this question.
Seven catches in that game too. He was doing it not just as big plays. It was a possession receiving kind of game, and the Kansas City really struggled to find answers for him, and then unfortunately he ends up tweaking the hams from one more time. So you just hope from that regard, in addition the fact that again another upfront, upstanding dude that has been very open about what he's been dealing with. I mean, he won the co Stand Up Guy of the Award from the media
last year for a reason. Doing it in year two that's almost unheard of, And I think that's a big reason why. I think his teammates have He's for as young as he is, with him and Romeo Dobbs, they've been able to command respect in that room because of the way they go about their business.
No question about it. Last one for you here, Wes, What do you feel right now? Is the biggest question mark regarding the twenty twenty four Green Bay.
Packers probably the offensive line, because I just don't know how the dominoes are gonna fall there. I mean, we're watching Jordan Morgan sort of lining up everywhere.
Zach Tom's dealing with the packs That was you know when you're wondering is he gonna stay at right tackle? Are they gonna move him around? Well, all that sort of experimenting and moving around sometimes can happen during OTAs, like during this time of year. But then that's not happening because he's, you know, dealing with an injury and he won't be back till training camp.
And does that mean when he does get back, you let him settle in it right tackle? Then what does that mean for left tackle? Then what does that mean for Jordan Morgan. It's just this this sort of I don't want to call it a domino effect because we don't know where the dominoes are falling yet, but I mean there's so many different contingencies set up right now. And credit to the Packers, they're rotating guys around. This is the time you want to get those reps in.
Morgan is being able to really cut his teeth at a lot of different positions. There is some stability there. You know, Josh Myers is really locked down center. I thought he had his best year by far last season. Sean ryan Man has been the right guard the entire offseason program. He has not given up on that and almost in a lot of ways, kind of reminds me when John Runyon finally took that next step yeah, and was no longer in a rotation with Lucas Patrick or
Royce Newman. Sean Ryan's been the guy there at a position that could have been rotated around. I love Elton. I think Elton is a perennial pro bowler. I just think that left guard is his home. That's the position where he's done it. I think done it the best He's done it the longest, So it just really comes up to left tackle, and what do the Packers do there? Is it Rashid Walker? Is it Morgan? Andre Dillard is
on this team now too. A lot to figure out, a lot of options, but things if everyone's healthy, you do want to get those answers by the time you really get far into training camp.
Yeah, And for me, my answer to this question is a little bit in the bigger picture sense. My biggest question mark with regard to the twenty twenty four Packers is are they going to be better at crunch time? Because you look at how last season went ended up nine to eight, made the late run, got into the playoffs and all that. But but man, when you talk about you know, the Vegas game, the Denver game, you know the way some of those games ended, the way
the crunch time performances were not there. Then against the Giants, you get a big crunch time drive by the offense, but then the defense lets down in crunch time. Then you start to turn things around. Whereat Carolina, the defense folds in crunch time, but the offense responds and gets you the big win that you need. But then when
it came right down to it. In the divisional playoff in San Francisco, the defense had a crunch time let down, the offense had a crunch time let down, and your season ended being able to perform better on both sides of the ball in the final three, four, five minutes of ball games. I think is what could could take this Packers team from where it was last year and where it ended up to where it wants to go. These games, the games in this league. I say it
all the time, Wes. I know I'm a broken record with regard to this, but it comes down to how you perform when it really really matters at the end of games. There are very few games, percentage wise, there are not that many games in this league that are undecided with six, seven, eight minutes to go, and you
have to be able to perform in crunch time. And I think if this Packers team on both sides of the ball takes a step forward in that regard nine to eight improves, your playoff positioning improves, and then who knows where things improve from there. So that's my biggest question mark.
I did take that question extremely literal, and I apologize for that.
No, no, you don't have to apologize.
No, because if that was if it was more about the big picture side of things, that's a great point. You make my point, I'll make it very quick, is is Jordan Love what we saw the second half of season is sure, guy, And because you remember that first half, it was a lot of learning. It was a lot of stuff that he and both Mattleflur together were working through to figure out this offense and everything. But my goodness, Mike, the last ten weeks of the season, he was one
of the best quarterbacks in the National Football League. If you come out of the gates like that, He's not gonna be perfect. There's gonna be rough stretches, he's gonna throw interceptions. It's the way things go for a twenty five year old quarterback. But his ability to basically do no wrong in the month of December is the reason why the Packers got to the playoffs.
Yeah and yeah, I mean quite frankly, he had in my opinion, basically from Thanksgiving on, Jordan Love only had one really down game and that was the Monday night game against the Giants, which he almost redeemed with the drive to get the late touchdown where the Packers were after a rough day, rough night on both sides of the ball. Looked like they were maybe gonna pull this
game out anyway. It didn't happen. But that was really the I mean, from Thanksgiving to the end of the season, that was really the only game where you felt where you felt like there was maybe a step back with Jordan Love and h And that's that's where my confidence
lies in him moving forward. Is that when he when he did reach a certain level, I think starting with well, really starting with the Pittsburgh game and a lot of respects, even though the Packers lost that game and he made a couple of mistakes at the end, but from but from there on, it wasn't this like roller coaster thing where he looked great and then he looked you know, he just he just had the one down game against the Giants during during that stretch run, and I think
that bodes well moving forward.
He made some throws, man, he made some throws that people do not make in this football league. Yeah, in Dallas, he there was I mean, there was some moments there, dude, that are special.
Yeah.
Now we know Mike McCarthy's old thing about great players, good players and the ones you know, that good players, good players at the moments of greatness and great player. Yeah, you know, that's where you got to take it. But I ended last season, man, I was thinking to myself over and over again, these guys very well might have done it again.
Yeah, I know, and I hope, and I hope for years to come. That's what we're talking about here on this show and everywhere else. But we got to get out to the practice field because it's mini camp week. So with that, we'll call it a rap on this edition of Packers Unscripted. We shure to follow all of our coverage all week long with regard to Packer's minichamp, and we will have another show later this week recapping that. So for Wes, I am Mike, thank you for tuning in. Everybody.
We will see you next time.