Hi, everybody.
Welcome to another edition of Packers Unscripted from Packers dot Com. I am Mike Spoffer, joined as always by my partner in crime, Wes Hodkowitz. We're coming to you here from our studios at lambeau Field and Wes. If there's a theme to this show, this random off season mid May episode of Packers Unscripted, it's going to be small world, because what I want you to talk to.
Us about is my trip to Disney last month? What my trip to Disney last month?
Actually, no, that was not where I was going. Although I'm sure Killian would love a discussion though, Oh, it's a small world.
He would fill up all thirty minutes of this show discuss I'm sorry, continue.
To know what I want.
What I want you to talk about is the story that you posted on Packers dot com on Monday morning, which was a really good and interesting and entertaining illustration of the small world that is that is NFL coaching circles. Because we found out from talking to assistant coaches last week that Ryan Downard, the Packers defensive backs coach, and Jeff Hafley, the new Packers defensive coordinator, they go back like a decade.
YEA.
And well, I'll just let you take it from there, because because I thought your story outlined the connections and how and how long it is that that Downard has looked up to a coach like Hafley and is really looking forward now to working with him as essentially his boss, the defensive coordinator over the position coaches.
Yeah, and if you go back and look, and I wrote this in here, you know it was kind of a stacked coaching staff that Mike Petton put together at the Cleveland Browns. I mean, they didn't win a lot of football games that second year. The first year they did pretty good. Yeah, but you know when you look at the offensive the side of the ball, Kyle Shanahan. Defensive side of the ball, you had Anthony Weaver, Aaron Glenn, Bobby Bazich, babbitch excuse me, who's now the defensive coordinator
of the Buffalo Bills. And as Ryan explained, who's now the defensive backs coach the Packers has been here for the last five years. He was the fourth guy in that dB room with Jeff Hafley being the one that was leading those guys. And the one thing I think is so interesting about the coaching world is the amount of intersection that goes on.
Yeah, it's not just coaches the coaches.
Sometimes it's a coach and then a player that played for that coach and then they end up kind of rising up the ranks. You know, a number of years ago when you look at Mike Petten came off of the Rex Ryan coaching tree. Well, then you look at Jimmy Leonard also came off of that tree, sure, and then was the safety for both of those guys and then ended up becoming a coordinator at the college level.
So to listen to Halfley explain it was one thing, and he talked a lot about those connections when he first got the job. But both Downard and Anthony Campanelli, the Packers linebackers coach, explaining their past history with him. Downward from the perspective of just getting to learn from him being in that dB room, going home and telling his wife, Hey, this is what I got to do. This is the kind of coach I need to be if I want to be at the front of the room,
much like Halfley. And then you listen to Campinelli, Well, him and Halfley never worked together, but it kind of goes back to just building relationships, building friendships, and it isn't always just about well, you're the editor at packers dot com and I'm the senior writer, so we got
to be friends and you know that's our tree. No, sometimes it's getting to know people from other media outlets, and in Campanelli's case, not I don't know, I'm maybe jumping ahead on the script here a little bit, but you know, this is a guy that was a really successful, really successful high school coach in the New Jersey area. Yeah,
Halfley's coaching over at Rutgers. He's going out, He's he's leaving with that Chiano staff that's going from Rutgers to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, right right, But before he does so, he puts in a good word with the remaining staff at Rutgers that's taken over that program for Campinelly.
Yeah, hey, check out that.
You might want to check out this this high school coach here in the Jersey areas doing some really good things. I mean, I mean, first off, how many guys would actually do that? I mean, I mean amazing It says. It says a lot about Jeff Haffley, because.
It's not like they're bringing him in to be coordinator. It was like for a defensive assistant, basically quality control type of.
Yes, but it also tells you as a high school coach the type of impression that Campinelli made on Jeff Halfley, that he that he would go so far to do that when the Rutgers staff that you know, there's this mass exodus of all these guys going from Rutgers to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. As you said, it's like, oh, yeah, by the way, there's there's this high school coach doing some good things. You might want to check him out
and lo and behold. Roughly a decade later or wherever we are now, maybe maybe it's longer than that.
Literally a decade it was for two Yeah.
A decade later.
Now you have you have Anthony Campinelli and and Jeff Haffley coaching together.
The story no go ahead.
I was just gon the other funny thing I didn't put in the story, but it's interesting. Campinelly coached at Boston College too then, but he was there before Halfley got there, right, and then when Halfley thought about maybe being able to keep him, Campinelly was already going to Michigan.
Yeah, two ships passing in the night like that, but eventually exactly well the other I mean, the other thing I was fascinated. I was fascinated by by a Downard story. Yeah, because because here he's he's just you know, just breaking into the NFL absolutely at you know, the the bottom spot on the totem pole on a coaching staff. But he ends up he ends up in a defensive backs room.
And this is just this is just essentially one position group where I guess too, you know, cornerbacks and safeties kind of all together, but essentially one one position group room that has four guys in there who all eventually become an are currently NFL defensive coordinators. When you're talking about Halfley, Weaver, Babbage and Glenn I mean.
That's unbelievable.
I mean there there's obviously been a lot made of that Washington coaching staff about a dozen years ago that had you know, Matt Lafleur and Sean McVay and Kyle Shanahan and you know, and and and that whole Mike McDaniel.
Cleveland had Mike McDaniel too.
That's right.
He was, he was, he was on the offensive Washington ball. He was on the offensive side of the ball by that time. But there's been a lot made, obviously of that Washington staff because of the head coaches that have been produced.
Well here's here's.
Just one one position room. Guys who you know coaching cornerbacks and safeties of the Cleveland Browns when Mike Petton takes over, and four of the coaches in that room become NFL defensive coordinators. And Ryan Downard is a guy who certainly.
Could be on his way as well.
He's uh, he's worked his way up over the last ten years, and it can take a while. It takes, it takes a lot of pays, it takes a lot of hard work and dedication and the willingness to move around and jump around to different cities and different clubs when the opportunities arise. But he's another guy who certainly could become a defensive coordinator.
Sometimes.
I was kind of floored by that story because you know about you know about how there are a lot of connections and everything is about relationships and word of mouth and stuff. But then when certain stories actually crystallize to where you see where a certain group of guys was at one particular time, and then where they've all advanced to now it's absolutely fascinating.
And that was one of the things.
I only had so much room to write for our little subhead that we put with the story, so I went with you know, the construction of Jeff Hafley staff has been a decade in the making. When I did my little Instagram post for it, though, you have a little bit more room to work with words wise, and I thought, really the summation of the story was his construction of his staff was a decade in the making
because it's been more about the people than the profession. Yeah, and with finding guy and bringing in a Campinale being able to bring him back.
Now that this guy has been widely successful, it was.
Praise unanimously for the job he did down in Miami the last four years, working with multiple coordinators. Now he makes that move up here and then looking at how they did it Downard stayed, you know, Jason Rebovich stayed Wendell Davis State. He brought over two assistants from Boston College as well. He's been able to kind of mesh all these different areas of his own life and his own coaching career together now to hopefully figure out this plan,
and last thing I will leave on that story. What I think speaks the best two halfway as a coach is we talked so much, We've spilt so much ink over the four to three and that's what Green Bay is going to run this year. But this system of offense or excuse me, defense that they use, it works in a four to three, it works in a three to four. All those guys have different philosophies and how they want to run things, but you know it shows you when you have a certain aggressive mindset the way
you play your coverages. Yes, the four to three three four is something that I think the layman can easily talk about, discuss and debate, but realistically, it's how you use those principles in the defense that you put together.
That's the sense I get. The more the more we have heard from Jeff Haffley and now the assistance on the defensive staff and hearing them talk about what they are relaying to the players in terms of in terms of teaching the system and teaching what they're going to
play and how they're going to play it. This is the first time because because to me, this feels, this feels completely different from back in two thousand and nine, fifteen years ago when when Mike McCarthy hired Dom Capers and the Packers were making this wholesale shift from the four to three to the three four Because to me, what this one feels like is the is the schematics the three four to four to three and how the fronts are gonna align, et cetera, and the x's and
o's part of it is entirely secondary or on the back burner in a sense compared to the style of play. It's it's going to be about the play style of the guys on the field, wherever they're lined up. That's really what the bigger emphasis is. It's not so much being so concerned about switching from like three four to four to three. This is a this is a play style defense and as you said, you can play this
way in any kind of scheme. They're just choosing this particular format is how they're gonna do it and how they're going to utilize the players. But this is not as big a dramatic schematic shift as we saw fifteen years ago under McCarthy.
And that's why you heard when Jason Ribovich was talking to the media, he mentioned San Francisco, he mentioned the New York Jets, he mentioned Houston and Demico. Ryan's what they're doing there. It's that mentality of the way you play defense, and at the end of the day, you have to be good at something. You know, you often use that phrase, it's when you are defense, you have to find something that you can hang your hat on because there's going to be holes. Is an offensive driven league.
Matt Lafleur says that all the time he feels as an offensive coach that you can poke holes in any defensive scheme. Whatever x's and o's somebody wants to lay out there, you can poke holes in it. And so for Matt Lafleur, what he's what he wants to do, The change that he wants to make defensively is the style of play. So what are you going to emphasize. And we heard from Jason Rebovich, we heard from the others, We've heard from Halfley.
This is about it.
It's about vision to the ball, It's about trying to take away the ball. It's about trying to get the TFLs and the sacks, making plays in the backfield. If that's what you're going to emphasize, then that's what you have to get because then if you get, if you are getting what you emphasize, then you can find a way to win football games that way. And one of the things I personally think was the biggest downfall of
the Joe Barry tenure. It's not that it's it's not that it's wrong to play a defense that's designed to limit big plays. A lot of defenses play that way. The problem is if you don't get what you emphasize. If you're playing a style that's just igned to limit big plays, but yet you are always ranking in the bottom third of the league in terms of big plays allowed, that doesn't work because you're not getting what you emphasize. So then you're you're kind of lost defensively because you
don't have that thing to hang your hat on. The Packers are going to try to hang their hat on something else with this style of defense and with the way they're going to go about it, and it's up to half Lee in those assistants to get that play style implemented with the players.
Yeah, and the trends of the league, Mike, we see it all the time. I mean, because it wasn't just a Joe Barry issue. You know, Brandon Staley was going through it too with the Los Angeles Chargers. That style of defense, the Bronco type fronts that got very popular for a time and getting a little bit lighter in boxes and having five man fronts and that it kind of This past year was a very you look at the statistics and where teams ranked in that area that
you know deployed those fronts. I think Vic Fangio did it the best that I of anybody, but even then there was a switch after the seasons with him. So I just feel like moving forward now listening to what Jeff Hafley talked about, he wants guys to be confident. He wants guys to know what they're doing out there.
And that's where Xavier McKinney comes in. That's where having JayR Alexander here for the offseason program is a really big thing for this defense in being able now to find this vision for twenty twenty four and hopefully beyond.
Yeah, I want to talk a little bit more about those defensive backs you just mentioned in a minute, but first I'll take care of sponsor because it's a serious XM NFL Radio delivers hard hitting analysis and up to the minute and NFL news that true football fanatics need. Twenty four to seven, three sixty five and a cousin subs.
We have something for everyone like our Wisconsin Cheese Kurts, mac and cheese, golden fries, and creamy shakes, all paired with your favorite sub or sub and a bowl cousin subs. Fifty plus years of better. All right, you mentioned jay R, Alexander, Corey Ballentin, Xavier McKinney. This is part two of the Small World Teams. Yeah, okay, and you know where this is going.
I know exactly where this is going.
Packer's new passing game coordinator on the defensive side, Derek ains Lee. When we heard from him, we found out that his connections with some of these defensive backs, So he's going to be coaching. Yeah, maybe all go back to a lot of them. Go back to his recruiting days in the SEC. He he recruited Xavier McKinney to Alabama. He tried to recruit Jay R, Alexander to Kentucky, lost out on him to Louisville. He recruited at one point, was involved in Eric Stokes recruiting, was involved in Corey
Ballentine's recruiting. It's it's again, it's kind of fascinating how this small world stuff and things kind of come full circle. But the back when when you actually look at the details of the background, it makes sense. Derek Ainsley was a defensive essentially a defensive backs coach in some form or other, different titles, whatever, but for three different SEC programs Alabama, Kentucky and Tennessee over the course of about a decade's time, give or takes some breaks in there.
So when you're coaching defensive backs in the SEC for about a decade at a bunch of different schools within that conference, as he said, you're going to cross paths with a lot of the best defensive backs coming out of high school because you're getting you're trying to get those guys to come to your program and to play in the SEC. So you know, So he's known Xavier McKinney since he was seventeen years old. He's known Jay R Alexander since he was about seventeen eighteen years old.
So there's it's it's interesting and we'll I'm sure when we get a chance to talk to the players during open locker room during OTAs and whatnot. We'll get to we'll get to ask a little bit more about just maybe what they remember about some of those interactions during their teenage years with this guy who's now up in front of them, you know, in the in the defensive
meeting room and all that. But again, my point is another sample of the small world that is sort of NFL circles and uh and how uh and how Paz can sometimes not cross but then ultimately cross and end up in the same place.
You could write me a blank check, Mike. I would never want to be a recruiter, a position coach in the SEC not built for it. I wouldn't a single night because as fertile as that, you know, recruiting ground is for NFL programs, Man, I just there's a reason why Derek said that it was because they were chasing some of the best players in the country.
Yeah.
Absolutely, And I actually the one I thought actually was most interesting to me was Jay Air because I don't We've talked about it over time, but I think sometimes people forget about this. Gyro was really lightly recruited. Uh, South Carolina I think was in on him. But I think I remember Kentucky. I remember him talking about Kentucky, but then ultimately, you know, Louisville was the one that he ended.
Up settling on.
Yeah, but he was a kid that got completely overlooked out of Charlotte for some reason I've still never quite figured out. Still would love to write that story at some point. But that being said, for Ainsley, now it shows you in NFL circles again, not only the small world of it, but just how all these guys run on a very similar track. And you know, I think
back to even the draft night when Michael Prewett. I was doing the conference call with Michael Prewett and he was talking about his relationship with.
Sean Sorry, Michael Pratt.
Michael Pratt, not Jeremy Prewett from Alabama who took Dereck Ainsley to Tennessee.
That's why he's on the back of my.
Head, is where we all.
We all get confused the more we try to talk Mike. I just wanted to correct.
Yeah, no, I appreciate that I have Jeremy Pruitt's bio up right now, but two a days, great show in the night in the two thousands. But the point I was going to make there was just Michael Pratt. He ended up meeting Sean Clifford at a Manning camp, just a Manning quarterback camp. That's how they've been on a text chain ever since, have built a friendship. They knew each other well before he ever got drafted to Green Bay.
In these worlds, much like if you're in you know, doing AAU basketball or any of this stuff, people tend to know each other. The exciting thing for Ainsley and when I think it is going to be most interesting for this secondary is he brings back that Jerry Gray element.
A guy that's been a defensive coordinator in the league, a guy that has had a lot of success as a defensive back and a defensive backs coach throughout the course of his career, and now getting a chance to work with JayR and Xavier McKinney, trying to bring all these components together because so for so long, Mike, we have talked about how talented these dbs are and how
much resources the Packers have invested in that position. Ainsley is now tasked with trying to get it back up to that level again after a very difficult our US season last year, a lot of which was brought on by injuries, but trying to still find that synergy they were looking for. Because Mike, a year ago when you and I were doing these talks and we knew JayR wasn't at the volunteer stuff, but we still were like, Okay, well jyr Alexander, Eric Stokes, you know is coming back,
Keishawn Nixon, Rasul Douglas. He had all these names. I remember thinking like, where is Carenton Valentine going to fit into all this?
Right?
And then lo and behold, that's what ends up happening.
So interesting listen to to Ainsley and and also gave us the best quote. Maybe someone else is taking credit for it, maybe it's I've just never heard of it, but him talking about the red line being a perimeter cornerback in the National Football League.
Yeah, he didn't, he didn't, he didn't use he didn't directly use the words about a boundary corner being out on an island. Yeah, but he I'll let you say it. He had a great he had a great line.
There's no Wi Fi service out there, there's there there's no help coming your way. You know, you're living out there and having to to react and just be your own man. So I just felt like the Packers right now with where this thing is headed again getting back to the original introduction of our entire show today. But they just have so many different coaches, so many different philosophies,
and a lot of which have connections. And by the way, Mike, if you want a connection for Derek Ainsley to the staff, he worked with rich Passacia with the Oakland Raiders. So there is your other connection to Ainsley.
There you go.
And that's how and and that's that's how, you know, the references happened. You know somebody, you know, somebody is interested in the job, you talk to him. You try to talk to other people in the coaching business that know him, that have worked with him before. You know. That's uh, that's how, that's how all this works, especially when you know a guy like a guy like Halfley is coming in and needing to needing to build a defensive staff. And as you said, he brought a couple
of guys with him from Boston College. But it wasn't quite the same thing like Shiano. Did you know when Shiano went to Tampa Bay from Rutgers and he was and he was the head coach there and uh, you know, and sort of took everybody with him. You know, Halflee didn't. That wasn't really an option for Halfley. So he's you know, he's pieced it together, he's built this staff, and I guess the one thing I would.
Say is that there's a lot of there's a lot of.
Genuine excitement amongst these coaches as to there's there's energy and excitement as to as to what they're teaching, what they're showing the players they have to work with. As I said, we'll start talking to the players over the next couple of weeks when the locker room opens up during OTAs a lot of you know, a lot of fun and interesting stuff, and of course, none of it matters until the games actually start and we see what
the results look like in September, October and beyond. But there's definitely a lot of energy and excitement within this coaching staff, which I think they are trying to pass along to the players.
You know, and you know, the battle is ultimately gonna happen in September, but man, you have to have that swagger. And I just feel like whether it was Halfley's first press conference back in February, or even just listen to Anthony Campanelli talk about his family's history and you know, and his dad as an Italian American loving Vince Lombardi. You know, just just those type of things I feel like make coaches relatable, Yeah, fine to us, find to players,
but find it fans, but mostly to players. Yeah, And I think that's where this this whole group has sort of checked the biggest box. And again you have to ultimately do it out on the grass and we'll see how OTA's and mini camps go. But Mike, you and I talked about on the last show, there's such an incredible opportunity in front of this football team right now.
And when you have a guy like Jeff Haffley who steps down from that head seat at Boston College to take over this defense and has a clear vision for what he wants to achieve with it, I think you can't help but get excited.
I love that part of Campinelli's story too, where he's an Italian American coach in high school football in Jersey, just down the road, so to speak, from Saint Cecilia's where Vince Lombardi coached, and now Anthony Campinelli's at twelve sixty five, Lombardi he's coaching coaching with the Green Bay Pack.
And like he even said, he was, like, I'd be nuts not to be over the moon about this. I mean, it just in a football family. His brothers coached, his dad coached. I mean, and by the way, you don't have to be an NFL coach to be a highly successful high school, college.
Little league coach.
I mean, if it's in your blood, it's in your blood. And certainly Campinelli being able to have that door open to him a lot of times, that's all it takes. And he certainly gives Halfley a lot of credit for that.
Yeah, no doubt.
One other thing we'll touch on very quickly before we go today. It is official. We have been given word the NFL has announced that it is going to announce the schedule on Wednesday this week. So we will have the schedule on Wednesday the fifteenth, which means on our next show later this week, we will talk about the schedule, will dissect it, turn it upside down, you know, do some origami with the paper. I don't know, but we'll we'll have every which way to take a look at
this thing. At the time we're taping this. The one thing that we have found out is the league has announced that Thursday night kickoff game. Kind of a no brainer, it had, you know that. You know, you have the Ravens going to Arrowhead a rematch of the AFC Championship
which was played in Baltimore last January. Now this rematch, which obviously the Chiefs won, will be will be at Arrowhead, And I guess I would say the the Chiefs, the Chiefs are not gonna want to lose that kickoff game two years yeah, on that Thursday night because they lost it to the Lions. You know, kind of a big deflating thing for your for your home crowd. But of course, you know, it ended up not mattering. The Chiefs still won the whole thing by the end when it was
all said and done. But kind of a no brainer that that it's the Ravens that Arrowhead to open the NFL season, the AFC Championship rematch. Mahomes and Jackson and all that.
Yeah, and you can say that about Kansas City, You're one hundred percent right about that. But my goodness, I mean, that's a big moment too for Lamar Jackson because again and he can't do anything about the playoffs right now, he can't do anything about what happened at the end of last season. But you know, starting with a big statement I think is gonna be huge for that Baltimore team, which by the way, got absolutely gutted when it came
to the coaching staff changes. I mean when it was like everybody in the National Football League if they needed a defensive coach or whatever, they just.
They just took everybody.
So seeing how they adjust to that, obviously that's a credit to John Harbaugh, the organization put they've put together, but there have been a lot of changes there this offseason. So seeing how they respond to that and see how Jackson plays is gonna be big.
I'll be honest with you, Mike.
I always dread scheduled day, schedule release day, but I actually probably like it better than the drafts because there's actually I think you can actually.
Draw more conclusions from with.
Than you can the draft when everybody tries to jump out and you know make proclamations, which, by the way, if you haven't read Cliff's story from last Thursday on oh yeah, the Draft, Cliff Cliff still everyone he keeps receipts.
He keeps every single receipt.
Just know that.
So many times we always.
And if he didn't keep the receipt, he'll find it.
So many times we're always like, hey, yeah, you know those draft grades. We I wonder what the draft grade was last year that so and so gave him. No, Cliff has it. Cliff's got it, and he's gonna write about Actually that was a really good column by him. But uh, swinging it back forward to the schedule release.
So that is the exciting thing because we'll we'll figure out a lot of the you know, the vision for how the season is going to lay out, and it goes beyond the buys, it goes beyond even just how it can be something as small as the gold package games, right like things like that stuff.
Yeah, figure the first two things. The first two things, or I should say three things probably that I look at that I look at when I see the schedule. One is where's the bye week? Where's the bye week placed?
Two?
Where in the schedule are the division games? And then and then what is that Week eighteen division game?
Is at home? Is it away?
Who's it against? Because then you also know what the other NFC North matchup is you know, because if the Packers are playing the Lions in week eighteen, then you know the Vikings are playing the Bears. Those are the Those are the three things that I that I that that I gravitate toward figure out as soon as I get my first glance at it.
We're one hundred percent getting the full slate of primetime games, aren't we.
You meet you like the maximum or what? Yeah?
Oh yeah, one hundred percent. And then there's always and then there's always a chance that even even when you're scheduled for the maximum, that at some point during the year you get flexed into another one. Yeah, and but yeah with uh And that's the thing is what do they as far as the maximum scheduled primetime games on the initial schedule, does the does the Brazil game on that Friday night? Does that actually count? Or because that's
an international game, does that sort of not count? And so the Packers might end up even with I don't know, there was just like there's.
An example of that already, and then I was like, no, that doesn't actually count. Was it the maybe it was? Oh, maybe it was because of the Thanksgiving game? If that counts as your Thursday night game or whatever. But yeah, yeah, I don't know, man, it's gonna be really interesting. Fans are excited about it. I know it's gonna be a rip roaring time. People are gonna be asking questions throughout it,
but kind of figuring out again. You're not gonna be able to predict how these teams are gonna play, and everyone's gonna be like, oh, is it a good schedule bad schedule? Like you said, it comes down to the buys, It comes down to those division games. We'll be really interested to see what works out with those Lions games. Though I was saying week two, you were saying week eighteen. In terms of what we'd prefer, I'm guessing it's one or the other, maybe both.
But it could be both.
It was last year, right, well it was Week one and Week eighteen with Chicago.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. Yeah, who knows?
Who knows?
Not this year we're going to Brazil, buddy.
We will have our hands on that schedule at some point on Wednesday, getting all of our content ready on packers dot com, and we will also shoot an unscripted episode to talk about the schedule and in all sorts of different forms and fashions, but for now we will call it a rap. On this edition of Packers Unscripted. Be sure to follow all of our coverage of the team,
the draft pick follow up stories. As I said, the schedule released this week, we will have all kinds of stuff, written, stuff, video stuff with regard to that coming up later this week as well. For Wes, I am Mike. Thank you for tuning in.
Everybody, We will see you next time.