Hi, everybody. Welcome to another edition of Packers Unscripted from Packers dot Com. I am Mike Spoffor, joined as always by my trusted colleague Weston hod Quitz. We're coming to you hear from our studios at lambeau Field and Happy Halloween to all of you Packers fans out there. Happy Halloween, my friend.
Thanks buddy. I'm looking forward to it. I'm going to try to gep out of the office a little bit early today. I got a very excited five year old that is ready to hit the streets and get some candy that he probably won't end up eating, but he loves the process.
Yeah, and can you spill the beans on the show? What his costume is?
Do you know what Wildcrats is?
No?
I don't, Okay, So it's a PBS show. He's a huge fan of it. They have like they kind of it's two brothers and now it's kind of an animated type show now too, and then they can like transform into like animals and things like that. So he's like, I think it's like a spider monkey kind of thing. So he has like this blue costume and he's very excited about it.
It sounds like it. It sounds like a very exciting costume.
So it's a little bit bigger, Like everything's more elaborate these days than when I was a kid, when it was like, I'm a fireman, you know. Now it's like, oh, I'm this character from a TV show that's very niche, but he's pumped about it. Well.
I would prefer to spend this show talking about Halloween and sharing all kinds of Halloween stories, but we actually, unfortunately have another Packers loss to talk about, and it's the fourth one in a row, this one to the Minnesota Vikings at home at Lambeaufield. The final score was
twenty four to ten. And when you look at how this game unfolded, as we talked about last week, a lot of similarities to previous games in terms of the Packers not being able to get anything going on offense in the first half, and this game in particular, happened to then get away from the Packers with that sequence. At the beginning of the second half, it's ten to three.
The beginning of the third quarter, the Vikings get the ball first because they had won the toss and deferred, and in a very short amount of time, the Vikings, drove the length of the field, got a touchdown, they get an interception, and then they score another touchdown right away, and suddenly, in less than half a quarter, a ten to three game becomes a twenty four to three game.
The Packers are in a catch up desperation mode and just once again didn't get it done, and Green Bay sits at two and five.
It wasn't a lot to say about this one afterwards. You obviously had the Insider Inbox column for Monday. I wrote our audition for Tuesday, and the most salient point I think I raised in this entire thing is there have been moments. There have been moments all year long for this team. And I'm not going to use the Y word. I'm not going to talk about the youth of it. But the one thing is Mike, is when you have moments, it gives you hope. But moments also
don't win you sixty minute football games. And for the Packers, I almost equate it. You know, I'm a big MMA guy. I almost equated to like an MMA UFC boxing type match. Your rounds, you got your quarters, and if you're constantly down two rounds on the scorecards, it's going to be very difficult to come back, and unless you're throwing a knockout blow late, you're gonna have a very difficult time being able to pull it off. And this was another
example of it. Mike. I mean, they've gone now, however many first halfs now without a touchdown, four or five, whatever it's been. And defensively, you know, they can stop defenses or they can stop offenses. They can hold Minnesota to sixty two rushing yards in this one after having some problems defending the run in a few other games, but then in this particular contest they're completing the third and lungs. It doesn't balance out. Unfortunately for the Packers.
It led to their fourth straight loss.
Yeah, and you mentioned it. It's a sixty minute game. It's a seventeen game season. What I raised in Monday Mornings Inbox is that the hallmark of successful professional players, the hallmark of a successful professional team, as those individuals you know come together collectively, is players being able to
have a reasonably consistent level of play. You are you're a true pro in this game when you can do things consistently, when it's not just the flashes in the moments, but it's when you can do that time and time again. And sixty minutes is a long game, and seventeen games is a long season. You're going to be You're going to be tested, You're going to be tried. You're going to be forced to reach a certain level of consistency
in order to succeed. And that's that's what the Packers continue to search for because ironically, if you have a lot of inconsistencies across the board, your results then become very consistent. And that's why the Packers are on a
four game losing streak. The the you know this one everybody's you know, talking about, well, you know, when the Packers go into hurry up mode and it's like they start to move the ball and you know, you start to get some points and all that, and it's like, yeah, but when the other team is up multiple touchdowns, you know, like they play defense differently, you know, I mean, you
can't continue to put yourself in that position. Even though the Packers had some chances to make it a one score game in the fourth quarter, you got the block field goal that gave you good field position. You had a chance there and then and then when you failed in the red zone, you get the sack fumble, and you get another chance in the red zone to make it a one score game, and the offense fails again.
But even with all of that, it still comes back to the fact that two and a half quarters into the game, you're down twenty four to three and you've done you've done nothing on offense to you know, to to establish anything about who you are. Your only success offensively is in desperation mode. And Matt Lafleur talked about that, it's like you just you can't you can't live that
way week after week. And the Packers are just still searching to find something that they can establish that they can execute successfully consistently, something to build on within any given game plan, and the way the first halfs have gone, the game plan is kind of gets tossed out the window at halftime every week.
Yeah. I think he said they ran was at fourteen plays for the first four series or something like that. And you know, you could talk about touches, you can talk about, you know, opportunities, but if you aren't able to move the ball on your first four series, it's just going to be difficult to just to be able to spread the ball around to get Aaron Jones established to be able to find, you know, what you're looking
to achieve. The hardest thing to decipher about this game for me was the penalties, because it showed you, again, as Matt Lafleur even talked about, if you're not consistent, if you're not playing well, you're not going to be able to overcome penalties. You know, everything about football is kind of like, you know, two glasses and trying to keep the one that you want filled and the one
that you don't want, you know, empty. But the more water that you keep that's taken over the other side of the boat, that the quicker you're going to sink. And for green Bay it was eleven penalties ninety nine yards. How many of those came in third down situations? How many times the Packers were in third and ten plus? And conversely, for as well as green Bay did defend Alexander Madison and did defend well against cam Akers, Kirk Cousins made some great plays and receivers went along right
with them. Yeah, Jordan Addison is turning out to be a real stud in this league. And I had huge questions about Addison if he was gonna be big enough. He proved he can play big enough. I mean, you look at what you know, kJ Osborne being a complimentary piece. TJ. Hockinson didn't have huge numbers, but it was enough to move the chains and.
He was pretty darn effective for that.
I don't I know the Vikings finished like ten of eighteen on third downs, but shoot, I wonder what that number was through the end of the third quarter.
Well, that's that's what I was just going to say when we talk about the third downs. I mean, what stood out to me? And I think I put this in Monday Mornings Inbox, although I'll be honest, I wrote, you know, answer those questions on Sunday night in a bit of a fog after everything that had happened. But prior to the play on which Kirk Cousins season unfortunately
ended with the torn achilles. Prior to that play, Minnesota was nine out of fourteen on third downs, and not just nine out of fourteen wes, but six of those nine conversions they needed either eight or nine yards to convert. And you know, if third downs in general are supposed to be roughly you know, a fifty percent proposition, forty five fifty percent whatever whatever you want to put on it. Third and eight plus is supposed to be for an
offense more like a thirty percent proposition. The defense needs to be stopping somewhere between two thirds to three quarters of those and to allow six conversions of third an eight plus in one game, you know, again, it's it's a it's a sign of a team that is inconsistent
and can't establish anything. Because coming into the game, the Green Bay Packers defense was ninth in the league in third down percentage, and then suddenly you have this day where third and eight plus and Kirk Cousins is tearing you up, and all sorts of things happen that that actually go against the profile that that you had built
through the first six games defensively. So it's you know, it just feels like as soon as the Packers plug one leak in the boat, another leak springs up somewhere else, and they just continue to they just continue to chase this and they've got to find a way to get out of it.
That was the most disheartening piece of it is because they were ranked ninth and that was largely with having some issues defending the run. But yet the pass defense. A lot of times the pass rush was picking them up in those third down situations and in this and this can you know this case, everything just flipped on its axis. And that's again that's the sign of a two and five team that's kind of feeling some type
of way right now. And it was difficult because at the same time I remember talking with Preston Smith about this afterwards in a little bit with Kenny Clark. I mean, the Packers didn't give up on themselves. They didn't pull off a second quarter rally or a second half rally, excuse me, but they did continue to fight. I mean they got the back to back sacks and the block
field goal and then the strip sack late. They there were moments certainly that that fourteen play drive in the third quarter for the offense, but as I said, it's sixty minutes and you can't play fifteen of it. You have to go the full way.
Right And that's the thing. And as much as as much as the Packers pass rush clearly had an impact in the fourth quarter, not only you know, forcing the field goal that got blocked, and then with the backup quarterback in for the Vikings, you get the strip sack and all that. But through the first three quarters, was there much pressure on Kirk Cousins at all. Not really. The pass rush didn't really show up until the fourth quarter, and that's one of the reasons that, you know, all
the third and eight pluses were being converted. So, as you said at the top, the Packers, they they on both sides of the ball, they show, they show the flashes. You see that it's there. But in this league, in this league, when you can't do it for more than a quarter and a half or two quarters, if you can't do it over the bulk of nobody can play a perfect game for sixty minutes, or you know, a high level game for all sixty minutes. That's too hard.
But if you can't play the way you're capable of playing for enough of those sixty minutes, you're gonna keep taking losses every week. And that's what the that's where the Packers have to find whatever it is that they can that they can do, that they can rely on, that they can execute consistently on both sides of the ball, and then try to build on that. And it's just been it's been a frustrating process to not be able to find it now.
And you know that was where I kind of fell for Jeordan into a little bit because Matt Lafleur talked about as postgame presser, certainly you touched on it as well. Moments Jordan wants to have back, no question about it. He talked a lot about his mindset and his mentality out there and the things that he has to do better. But to have a pass where he actually reads the defense perfectly and he has the split safety look and
he does fire one in there. It wasn't a perfect pass, but he does fire it in there for Jaden Reid and then the safety collapses and kind of wrestles the ball away from him to be the only interception of the game. Those are the turning port moments in a football game. And you know, and again especially when you've had so much difficulty taking the ball away defensively, you can have no lapses there. And you know, I think that's going to be the big thing that Jason Vrabel
and in his in the Packers. You know, passing game coaches are gonna have to look at this week. Is you've got a lot of young talent at receiver, but it's also having the strong hands, it's having the body and having the physicality to come down with those balls. Romeo Dobbs did it a week earlier, and that was that was a play where potentially could bend disastrous result if he's not fighting for the football against Patrick Sirtan junior the way he did. You have to attack the football.
But again it goes back to the full thing. When you're not running the ball well and you're not passing the ball particularly well. Some more issues on the offensive line this week. There's just a lot of things to fix. And the big challenge for Matt Lafleur and his coaching staff this particular week getting ready for the Rams is where is the emphasis in what do you look to improve upon? Because you can't fix everything in six or
seven days. You have to have a focus and kind of work your way forward from there.
Yeah, and you had mentioned you had mentioned earlier the penalties too, and I don't want to dwell on this too much, but going back through the film, you know, I mean, I'm not gonna I'm not going to excuse eleven penalties. That's way too many and it's been a problem in other games as well. But if you look at this, if you look at just this game in particular, you and I were talking about it in the press box.
What ended up being that fifteen yard penalty on John Nathan Owens along the sideline when the Packers win the challenge because the pass is incomplete, but the Vikings still get fifteen yards and a first down. Like, I don't know what Jonathan Owens is supposed to do on that, Like he's literally trying to back off, he's trying to lay off, and yet he still gets flagged for fifteen yards. I took a closer look at where Shaun Gary's roughing
the passer. When I first saw it, I thought it was I thought it was the body weight, you know, landing on the quarterback thing. Then when I got a closer look at it, it's like, yeah, I mean he hit him. I don't see how you could call that hit late. And Gary actually lands with his knees on the ground, like he didn't land with his whole body weight on the quarterback. He stopped and his knees hit the ground, and yet they still throw the flag for
fifteen yards. I'm not sure what Rashaan Gary is supposed to do on that. You go back to the play very early in the game when rashid Walker was flagged for being ineligibly downfield. When the Packers had this whole busted play and obviously lots of guys on offense were not on the same page. Because it's either supposed to be a running play or the ball comes out right away. Rashid Walker ends up getting flagged illegally downfield. Not his
fault by any stretch. He's literally standing, he doesn't even have anybody to block or anything to do. He's standing two yards downfield when Love throws the pass up along the sideline and he gets flagged for you know, ineligible man downfield has absolutely zero to do with what's going on. But that's a penalty that results from everybody else on offense not being on the same page and a complete breakdown.
So again, I'm not excusing eleven penalties, but when you look at what happened in this particular games, there are a lot of them that are just that are absolute head scratchers that you just kind of go like, what is going on out there? And why why do these continue to pile up against Greenback.
Yeah, there was no news with Sean Hockeley's crew with how they called this game. Now again, as Mattel four, will be the first one to tell you, you have to play better to not allow those moments to affect the outcome of a game exactly.
Pack that's one hundred percent true.
But that being said, it came back to a lot of the things that I've had an issue with the National Football League in the last ten years. The Jonathan Owens thing and the Rashan Gary thing are actually very similar if you actually go back and look at them, if you watch them in real time. Don't slow it down, just watch it in real time. Both times, the defensive player is kind of being shielded from what he's seeing
on the play by another defensive player. Jonathan Owens is the second safety involved on that play down the sideline. Rudy Ford, I believe it was was directly in front of him. He's just trying to stop the play and as it turns out, dude, if he could have actually seen Jordan Addison putting his head down on that play, I believe it was Addison. He's going to be able
to pull off. He doesn't see that though. All he's the twenty jersey in front of him bang bang play fifteen yards, as I joked about on Twitter x or whatever, the one thing that that challenge in addition to actually overturning the catch, which again, it was just an amazing play by the referees to just get everything correct on that play, considering they incorrectly said that that was a reception. But what was funny the most about is New York. And then they both got a good look at that
play again and there's nothing you can do. You can't overturn a penalty. But like, it was just a ridiculous call.
It was, it was, it was. It was absolutely ridicuous.
And then watch the Gary. You can watch the TV copy. You don't even need to watch, like the football copy that all twenty two films. Watch the TV copy of the Gary hit. Watch it at full speed, and you tell me exactly what Rashaun Gary's supposed to do when his job description is to attack the quarterback, to get after the quarterback. Yeah, bang bang play, Kingsleyannigbari.
Yes, I was. I was just going to say. This is this discussion is essentially about not all penalties, even ones with the same name, are created equal because what Kingsleyanbari did was absolutely roughing the passer and absolutely a lack of discipline. And that is absolutely the type of penalty the Packers have to eliminate from their game. The other roughing the passer around Rashaan Gary. I don't know what he's supposed to do.
I could have swore that I would play math football.
Yeah, well, and it was and gay, it was the Vikings, and it was Kirk Cousins at lambeau Field two. You know, Week two of twenty eighteen over again. All right, well, we'll move on to a couple of other topics. I'll take care of some sponsor business here. First, Serious XMNFO Radio delivers hard hitting analysis and up to the minute NFL news that true football fanatics Steed twenty four to seven,
three sixty five and Ed Cousin Subs. We have something for everyone, like our Wisconsin cheese curds, mac and cheese, golden fries and creamy shakes, all paired with your favorite sub or sub and a bowl Cousin Subs. Fifty years of better, Big news on Monday. Rashaan Gary, We've already been talking about him. Rashan Gary is going to be a Green Bay Packer for quite some time. He signs
a multi year contract extension. He was playing this year on the rookie first round pick, fifth year option, and we sort of knew this was how it was going to go that as soon as Rashaun Gary showed that he was back from the ACL and back to his old self and the era of his career was still pointing up, the Packers are going to get this done and not let Rashaan Gary reach free agency. It's the exact same approach they took with Elton Jenkins last year.
This one just happened to the contract extension happened to come earlier in the season, whereas with Jenkins it was
more around Christmas time. But congratulations to Gary. As Matt Lafleur said, you love to see guys who put in the work and go about it the right way and have the approach that Gary has, and a guy who is so well liked by his teammates and for what he brings to the field, to the locker room and everything else, to get rewarded for everything that he puts in and hopefully, you know, as I said, for Sean, Gary's arrow is continuing to point up with regards to
his career. The Packers defense is going to benefit from that for years to.
Comb quintessential Packers move taking care of one of their own and doing it with a little bit of time left on his contract to help you spread out that signing bonus. And let's be honest, Mike, this deal probably gets done last December if if Rashawn doesn't tear as acl that's the only.
Question, absolutely that and and for all we know there was something in the works. Yeah, you know, because these things don't happen overnight. There may have been something in the works last year before Gary's injury, and then when something like that happens, you know, it all gets put on hold.
He was on such a tear at the beginning of last season, and then for him to come back his second game really back, and well, technically I guess it would be the third, but first at Lambo, the three SAT game against New Orleans, and just that every single week he's taken steps and you know, forty six season
I forty six snaps. This past weekend against Minnesota, both Kenny Clark and Preston both gave him credit to I mean, the stats maybe didn't show up as much, but he was effective and contribute on both of their individual sacks. Just the type of game wrecker green Bay needs upfront in the trenches and a guy that they can move
around and be versatile with. And the biggest piece of all, as you said, Michael still only twenty five years old, I mean, so much still ahead of him in terms of his game and his development, trying to become, as he even said in the locker room on Monday, you know, the man he's becoming, the players, he's becoming, the belief that Green Bay has shown in him, and ultimately, you know, trying to prove to them that, hey, you guys have made a huge investment in me in twenty nineteen, You're
doing it again in twenty twenty three, and I want to be that all pro Pro Bowl type pass rusher that you can lean on for years to come. Yeah.
Absolutely, he's He's a big part. He's a big part of what the Packers are are doing defensively, and he's you know, I mean the fact that he wears number fifty two is kind of fitting because this does feel a lot like when you know, when the Packers got Clay Matthews in the fold long term, and he was.
You know, he's a centerpiece type of defensive player that you build your process, you build your scheme around, you build your game plans around what you think Rashaun Gary can do out on the field on a weekly basis, and that's where the Packers defense is headed.
I'm gonna say this too, I just interrupt you. Yeah, it was cool him talking. He talked for about eight minutes at his locker on Monday, already all business. He probably said the word rams more than any other word during the presser, very much focused on that. But he
did get I'm not going to say he cried. He didn't cry, but you could tell the emotions kind of pouring through him a little bit at least, kind of going through him talking about his mom and his sister being alongside him when he did sign that contract right before the game. Two ladies that have been with him since the beginning, as he said, since seventh grade when he started football to now and been on that journey
with him and to be able. You can just see how proud he was of that because it has been for a lot of people. NFL is a is a life changing opportunity, but you can tell more than just money, the amount of pride that he felt being able to become the man and player that you know, his mom thought he could be, and that he's tried to prove that he can be for her at this point in his life.
Yeah, and to do that also coming back from such a devastating injury a year ago actually just I guess fifty one weeks ago, like right right around there, if my math is correct. A couple other things I want to hit on, just with regard to other results around the league. We do like to talk about kind of
what else is out there. And I'm not sure. I'm not sure what you thought, Wes, but but when I saw kind of what was happening in Week eight with some of the results, what I kept coming back to mentally is we're seeing we're seeing some good teams and teams that a lot of people believe would be good teams and playoff contenders and all that showing their medal a little bit in terms of bouncing back from some
rough spots. You know, the Detroit Lions, you know, they got it handed to them by the Baltimore Ravens, but then they come back their first home Monday, night football game, and however, many years at Ford Field and they get a victory. The Cincinnati Bengals were scuffling along. You know, Joe Burrow wasn't entirely healthy with the calf injury, and the Bengals had these issues and they get a big, you know, two touchdown win over the San Francisco forty
nine ers on the road. A couple of weeks ago, the Dallas Cowboys got smacked around by the forty nine ers, and now they've come back and you know, they put a they put a pounding on the the La Rams, who will be coming into lambeau Field this week. I think, you know, the score was like thirty three to three or something like that before before the Rams really found anything offensively. So that's kind of what I've been That's
kind of what I've been seeing. And I think the next team to show, now they have a bye this week with the three straight losses, but the next team to show, okay, are you going to bounce back from the adversity is the forty nine ers, who have now gone from five to zero to five and three. You know, their quarterback has you know, was you know, brought back on six days from concussion protocol. A lot of people questioning that the Niners didn't play that well against against
the Bengals. I think that's that's the next one to watch. And and the Kansas City Chiefs they go into Denver, you know, I mean, streaks are always going to end. I mean, they had beaten the Denver Broncos sixteen consecutive times, one of their division rivals. They go into Denver on a snowy Sunday and somehow Patrick Mahomes and company they only score nine points, and they had almost that many turnovers. I think they had five or six or whatever it was.
You know, just goes to show that when you don't protect the football, you start turning it over. Anybody can anybody can beat you. So so the Chiefs have some adversity to respond to now, as well.
Tons of respect for Patrick Mahomes going out there and toughing it out. Probably shouldn't have just played in that game. Probably should have just called that one a night. And given you know, Blain Gabbard an opportunity there. I just didn't seem like himself and Denver man I told you two weeks ago. I mean not that I'm some kind
of Southsayer. But I mean, like when we were talking about going into the Packer game, I thought Denver did a lot of good things, especially defensively against Kansas City, and it seemed like they made the corrections they needed to make. And I mean one hundred and fourteen passing
yards and three touchdowns for Russell Wilson. I mean, yeah, not the biggest stat line you're ever gonna see, but when you're efficient and when you commit yourself to the run the way that they did, they controlled the game and they ultimately protected the ball better and were able to succeed Detroit was a real gut check I felt like, because yeah, I mean, Vegas is just in shambles right now. I feel terrible for what's happening with DeVante there.
But yeah, I think we all do.
But I mean they they made a and Jamiir Gibbs, I thought we not thought he did have the best game of his career so far and showed, hey, I can be an every down back if you need me to be.
Yeah, you feel it. You feel like that guy is maybe just starting to get going, and you know, I mean they're going to get David Montgomery back and then suddenly the Lions are going to have this two headed monster in the backfield and to give their offensive coordinator Ben Johnson all sorts of options.
But it's for me, it's all about Aaron Glenn and that defense because that is the one area we've seen Ben Johnson make some good play calls. We've seen their offense do some good things. Jamal Williams had thirty eight rushing touchdowns last year, but defensively the last eleven months. Man, I keep saying it, but I mean, they're a different team, and I think a lot of it is with that young pass rusher of Theirs and doing the thriller dance
and everything with his background. But they just they Vegas just could not do anything against them. Yeah, Josh Jacobs has been neutralized, DeVante's been neutralized. Brutal.
Yeah. One other, one other thought I wanted to ask you, and I don't want to get into a whole discussion because it's a discussion for another t.
It's about how the Giant's almost one with eight passing yards.
Well, actually I was I was thinking about bringing that up, but I know, I know we're kind of we're kind of pushing our limits time wise.
Yeah.
I was going to ask you, did you see did you see the touchdown that the Eagles scored out of the tush push formation.
I don't think I did. Know.
Oh my goodness, they just they just made that play that much harder to defend because they lined up in a short yardage with the two guys behind Jalen Hurts looking like they're going to do the whole tush push thing. And then and one of the guys behind Hurts was DeAndre Swift, and Hurts took the snap, spun around, handed it off to him, and he just turned the corner and was gone touchdown. I mean, you, now, what do
you do? Like, how do you how in the world do you defend the Eagles on short yardage when they can do that and they're also successful with the tush push thing like eighty nine and a half percent of the time or whatever. I mean the Eagle The Eagles are seven and one, and my personal opinion, I know they've got some they've got some issues to sort out defensively, but but it feels to me like the Eagles maybe are just starting to hit their stride.
Yeah, for sure, And it's funny to be that, you know, Jason Kelcey. There are these questions about, hey, is he gonna call quits after the Super Bowl. I mean, that guy's playing as good of football as he's ever played right now, and he is the catalyst to that play.
He probably loves that play more than anybody else. You know, it's probably fun for him.
It's like a little sumo wrestler, you know, just kind of pushing people around. But the other thing I will mention is Nick Sirianni and the adjustments you have to make in this league. And unfortunately I did not get a chance to see that play, but it just it reminds me of you can't fall into patterns. I think that's one of the things that I've said this on some of the other things I've done this week. You know, Brian Flores impressed me about what the Vikings did on Sunday.
They're blitzing more than any other team the National Football League. So all right, we're gonna put nine guys up on the line of scrimmage and we're gonna drop eight. I mean, like, yeah, they it's the adjustments you make off of what you're showing on film and when you decide to turn that switch and certainly the Eagles have been on the cutting edge of it and they've continued to sort of dominate this thing.
Yeah. Well, there are some really good games on the schedule in the NFL in Week nine, and we'll talk about those on our next show as we preview Packers and Rams, which will be at Lambeufield on Sunday at noon. But for now, we're going to call it a rap on this edition of Packers on Script. You'd be sure to follow all of our coverage of the team all week long. We have it all for you on Packers dot com. For Wes, I'm Miike. Thank you for tuning in everybody. We will see you next time.