Hi, everybody. Welcome back to another edition of Packers Unscripted from Packers dot Com. I am Mike Spofford. He is my trusted colleague Weston Hodkowitz. We're still coming to you from disparate locations at lambeau Field. Hopefully sooner than later we will get back to normal with the setup in the studio and all that. But that's a discussion for another day because Wes. Today is the day before the first practice of Packers Training Camp. So my first question to you is are you ready for this?
Yeah? Yeah, Michael, Because the fun thing about this, because I've had so many people, actually was walking out of the building with one of our it gurus, Tony Smith a couple of days ago, and you know, he asked me about like everyone asks, like, hey, what do you think of the team? You know, what do you think about training camp coming up? And the answer I've been giving anybody, whether it's you and I discussing it or whether it's inbox, is I'm just excited for the unknown.
And yeah, there's a lot of trials and tribulation that are gonna come with that. There's gonna be ups and downs that'll come with that. But at the end of the day. I've never covered a situation like this before, and I thought it was very apropos that Matt Lafleur and his pre training camp presser kind of one of his last comments was, yeah, in a lot of ways, I feel like this is my first year again, Like, yeah,
it's the same offense. They're not reinventing the wheel now at Jordan Love under center, but you are preparing a new quarterback for your scheme and to actually implement it on a down out play, play by play basis. And I think that's very exciting. So yes, am I ready? I'd better be ready because it's right here in front of us now.
Yes, it is. The first practice of training camp is slated for Wednesday morning at Rainychki Field. It's gonna be hot, it's gonna be muggy. There's gonna be a lot of fans around.
Uh, well, you wear your tank top for this one, your packers tank top?
At my tank top? No, I might. I might stick with a uh, stick with with a T shirt and then another one to change into after I sweat through the first one. Yeah, but we'll uh, we shall see lots of stuff to h to pay attention here as training camp gets going, with the caveat that there is a ramp up period. The pads are not going to go on for a few days. Things the first few days still going to feel a little bit like, uh, you know, glorified. OTA's just a bigger crowd and and
whatnot in attendance. But but the first couple of things that come to mind for me, aside from the quarterback Jordan Love and and and Matt Lafleur did mention also earlier on Tuesday, about the unknown with with regard to just where things are going to go with this this quarterback transition. There is a lot of unknown that everybody has to work through, players, coaches. But the Packers are heading into this training camp with what appear, at least
in my eyes to be too open starting positions. And I'm talking about one on the defensive side of the ball at safety and the other one on the offensive side at right tackle. Based on what we saw during OTA's and mini camp in the spring, those are two positions that appear to be fairly open in terms of, you know, how things are going to shake out with the starting lineup come week one. And I think those are two spots to definitely keep an eye on here.
Can I kind of tap into your memory bank a little bit, because you obviously have had a couple of years on me in terms of covering this football team, and I want to think, I want to ask you if you think this is a if this is a ripe comparison as far as safety is concerned. In some ways now, I was more of the fan, the youngster back then as far as how I watched the football team.
But this kind of reminds me of that transition that the Packers sort of underwent when Mike McCarthy sort of started and the Packers were trying to figure out what their combination is going to be. Ultimately, Atari bigb ended up being one of the answers there. And then obviously, you know Nick Collins grew into becoming a franchise safety. But you know, markwan Manuel was signed, the Packers had a bunch of different guys that they had competing for that.
That's what this feels like right now with Green Bay because while Darnell Savage is the returner, he's the guy that's the former first round pick, the fifth year veteran, the one that I would expect to be in that starting eleven come week one, the packers are really doing a full assessment on that entire position and what it's
going to be beyond twenty twenty three. And to me, as I've said before, with the position of safety itself in the current the present day, I look at whoever's going to be the best compliment to Darnell Savage, whoever's going to be the one that gets the most out of him back there? Is the guy that I want to see emerge in that spot because I think when you look at Rudy Ford, when you look at Tarvarius More, that list just keeps going on going, right. I mean,
you have John Owens is now in that competition. Dalan Levitt has been one of the probably the most veteran players on this roster, and then obviously in his gains, I think is a guy that's shown some promise. But who's going to be the one that gets that spot? Because I feel like safety is one of those positions you don't want to see a platoon. You want to see them build a one two combination of battery, if
you will. The pitcher and catcher of those two guys working back there and I think when you look at Savage's history, that's the thing that has worked the best for him when you have that familiarity, when you know what the assignments are, and ultimately being able to get the most out of the guy that the Packers really invested a lot into four years ago.
Yeah, I think this, I think, you know, six is somewhat an apt comparison. I'd also maybe look in some respects at twenty thirteen when the Packers knew they had Morgan Burnett in one spot, but the other spot was
kind of wide open. I think the biggest difference there, and maybe why it's a little bit more like six, is that the guys that we've seen at the top of the competition, at least the ones that we saw rotating in with Savage with the first defense during the spring Rudy Ford, Jonathan Owens, Tarvarius Moore put him in
whatever order you want to right now. But those three guys have a lot more NFL experience than the guys had a decade ago when the Packers were in this spot where they knew they had Morgan Burnett, but they didn't know who the other guy was going to be. Obviously, then later on down the road, the first round draft pick was spent on Haha Clinton Dix. But the competition this time around seems to be with experienced players and it's just a matter of who's who's going to jump
up and take it and run. Rudy Ford has the most experienced in the Packers system. Jonathan Owens was a full time seventeen game starter a year ago for the Houston Texans, and Tarvarius Moore was a half season starter for the San Francisco forty nine Ers a pretty darn good defense just a couple of years back, but then had an injury that cost him his entire twenty twenty one season before he came back and resumed a prominent
special teams role for San Francisco last year. So none of these guys are brand new to the NFL in that respect, And even when you talk about dal Levitt, Innis Gains, other guys we may see, you know, fight for this spot as well, so experience experiences there and the Packers, you know, new secondary coach passinging coordinator Greg Williams, along with Ryan Downard, along with Joe Berry, the defensive coordinator, they're going to have to decide, you know, what is
that best combination in the back end there as the defense makes this transition from Adrian Amos.
Yeah, and I'd be remiss, you know. Also to mention Anthony Johnson, the Packers did use a draft pick on that pack as well. He is going to be a part of this because it is about who's going to start. But one of the other reasons the Packers have all these prospects, have all these different various players is because of what they potentially add to special teams as well.
When you mentioned Tarvarius More, yeah, he had a couple cups of coffee with the defense there in San Francisco, but he largely, you know, hung on as long as he did with the forty nine ers because of what he did on special teams. You look at Rudy Ford. I think one of the things that Rudy came to Green Bay, the biggest chip on his shoulder was Yeah, I know I'm an exceptional flyer. I know I'm an
exceptional coverage player on special teams. I've been looking for the opportunity to prove that I can be a starter in this league and stay a starter. And then Jonathan Owens,
I don't know. You'd have to probably search pretty long on you know, Football Database or NFL Reference and all these websites to find someone that has traveled such a long road to become a one year every game starter, playing almost a thousand snaps and then this offseason trying to find another opportunity for himself that that chip on
his shoulder remains very large. So when you talk about all these position battles, there's probably other ones that are going to be maybe more important or things that the average fan are going to think about more. But in terms of the stakes, I don't know if there's anyone that is the higher. The stakes are higher than what's available for the Packers and these young safeties on this team, and the.
Spot on the offensive side of the ball that appears wide open as training campigins for the Packers is right tackle, shaping up to be based on what we saw in the spring again to be a competition between the incumbent yosh Neimen and the second year pro Zach Tom a fourth round draft pick out of Wake Forest last year who proved as a rookie that he could jump in fill in at various spots, including left tackle for David Bakhtiari in a pinch. This will be interesting, West because
you're talking about two very different body types. But also yosh Naimen has a heck of a lot of experience, Zach Tom not quite so much in that regard, and one of those things that could take multiple preseason games to decide, Oh, who's going to be lining up there in Week one.
Yeah, certainly the Packers want to have us starting five figured out, but you and I have covered enough football to understand that even in the optimum situations like twenty fourteen, there was still one game where Brian Blogo wasn't able to play right, and a lot of times there are injuries that create domino effects. That's what's kind of funny to me about this competition right now, because we're whether or not Zach Tom prevails or Yashneiman prevails. Packers are
going to need both of these guys this year. Whoever isn't starting is probably the next man up with a domino effect on the rest of the offensive line regardless. But to your point, the most exciting part of it is you have a guy in Zach Tom that I think everybody agrees probably the better prospect in terms of the intangibles, right three year starter in college, fourth round pick. I love everything I saw from him and how he
was able to hit the ground running. In a lesser year where the Packers are more up against it in terms of their roster, probably would have started more. It was just an act circumstance of injuries and different things that that sort of enabled him to move around as much as he did. But in some years I could see him being a guy that would plug in at one spot and that's your starter. Then you got Yashneiman, who's taken the long road to this spot. Six foot seven,
three hundred and fourteen pounds. This is how you draw these guys up. But it took time for him to use that body type and showed that he could be a game in and game out starter. It is going to be a very intriguing battle to watch, But I think the fun thing for the Green Bay Packers is it's a good position to be in and regardless, you're probably gonna need both of these guys to get through a full season.
Yeah, no question about it. And several other storylines for us to pay attention to, for all the fans to watch here when training camp gets going. I do have a story on the website, five storylines as a Packers open training camp, but I'm gonna throw a few more at you, Wes, and I'll let you talk about whatever you want to. There's a rookie kicker who's looking to take over for the franchisees all time leading scorer. We'll be waiting to see when Rashaan Gary and or Eric
Stokes is able to come back. By all accounts, everything with their rehab, different rehab processes, but things are going well. No timeline promised in terms of when those guys might
come off the pup list physically unable to perform. And then obviously, you know the getting up to speed, getting on the same page, whatever you want to call it, all the young pass catchers with the new quarterback, you've got the second and your receivers, and Watson and Dobbs, you have the rookie tight ends in Musgrave and Craft. There's a lot going on here with this Packers team
on both sides of the ball. And you know, it feels like, even though training camp is just getting started, it feels like that game in Week one is right around the corner.
It does Mike. And the part that I find most interesting is looking at those pass catchers, those skill position players that you talked about, because kind of like the tackle situation, there might be a starter, there might be someone that plays more snaps, there might be more packages built around specific guys. But one of the points I laid out an insider inbox this past week was that wide receivers three through five I think are all going
to have roles on this team. I think the tight ends probably all the way one through four are going to have specific packages and niches that they're going to fill. And frankly, I think there's even opportunity for an RB three in this offense. I think you go back to the construct of how Matt Lafleur originally wanted to build
this thing. I think there's an opportunity there for a Tyler good Sintat, Patrick Taylor, lou Nicchols, somebody else to get involved there with Aaron Jones and AJ Dillon, and that multiplicity of options I think is what makes this offense the most dangerous. People will talk about, well, you know, Jordan Love and Christian Watson and Romeo Dobbs, and certainly that is going to be a foundational part of the
passing game. But it's about all these guys they've added around them that I think is going to be the most intriguing to me. Tight end, though, as Matt Lafleur illustrated, it is more than just catching the ball. It's more than just running seams. It's more than just about being and having the fastest ten yards split like Muskrave had
at the combine. It's also about running offense, it's about blocking, it's about understanding all the different nuances that go into that position that maybe necessarily aren't something that fantasy football owners are thinking about. That's the part that the Packers are going to have to master, especially if Marcedes Lewis doesn't return.
Yeah, and when, as you mentioned in talking about our last topic about the Packers really needing everybody, I see that very much much the same with with the tight ends and the wide receivers, because even though you expect because of where Luke Musgrave and Tucker Craft were drafted, you expect them to be the future at tight end, but Josiah Deguarre and Tyler Davis are going to be needed in this group, particularly in the early part of the season, as as those young guys get up to
speed and and and prove that they belong in the NFL. You look at wide receiver, there's a lot of promise with Samari Toure coming back his second year, you know, showed some showed some things in the spring. I think Jaden Reid as a second round draft pick, everybody expects him to eventually, you know, get to the same type of level that Christian Watson and Romeo Romeo Dobbs are at in this offense. But Samarrii Toure is going to
have a spot. He's going to have a role and and opportunity to, uh, you know, to make an impact on this offense. And you know how it goes in this league. If a guy who gets an opportunity seizes it and starts to produce, it doesn't matter who's behind him. The coaches are not just going to say, Okay, well it's this guy's turn. Now. You know, you're ten catches for one hundred and fifty yards in the first three weeks of the season, We're just going to kick you
to the curb. It doesn't work like that. If you if you sees an opportunity and you produce you can start to establish yourself in this league. And I think at both wide receiver and tight end the Packers have young guys behind their younger guys. The opportunities are going to be there and we'll just have to see what happens.
Here's where this gets fun too, right, Mike, because as you were mentioning during our intro, well, it's you know, you have the ramp up period, which in a lot of ways looks like OTA's. Well, who wasn't here during OTAs Jyr Alexander Russeul Douglas. When you talk about those young receivers specifically, I think that's where the bar comes in. That's where you get the litmus test for these young guys,
seeing how they stand up to that challenge. The fun thing to me about this is if there wasn't a Romeo Dobs this year, if there wasn't a Christian Watson, and shoot, if there wasn't a Samari too Rae. If you flip the script and go back to last year and there was no Jaden Reid, I think people would have been talking a lot more about Dantavian Wicks than they did, just because there's all these young guys that
these headlines are going to be drawn about. Certainly, you look at the physique of Christian Watson and everything that Dobbs did last offseason coming back, those are going to be people that you naturally sort of gravitate towards. But I thought Dantavian Wicks looked exceptional during the off season program and I'm excited to see how he does now
as he gets ready into training camp. Seven former NFL draft picks mike all taken within the last two years, helped make up this receiving corps, and it goes beyond that as well when you look at some of the guys that could be available for them. I mean, certainly there's some undrafted dudes in this class that I thought showed out a little bit during the off season program.
That is where it gets exciting for Green Bay and also understanding that who is going to be the one that helps and sort of develops that rapport with Jordan Love in these practices while going up against the jyr Alexanders and Rasoul Douglases. I think even during the ramp up period, even before the pads come on, that's where we're going to start to learn a lot more about these young guys seeing when they are going up against that type of competition.
Yeah. Absolutely, well, I wanted to care a little bit of sponsor business. Here Wes Sirius XM NFL Radio delivers hard hitting analysis and up to the minute NFL news that true football fanatics need twenty four to seven, three sixty five. And at Cousin Subs, we have something for everyone like our Wisconsin cheese curds, mac and cheese, golden fries, and creamy shakes, all paired with your favorite sub or sub in a bowl. Cousin Subs fifty years of better.
All right, Well, one of the questions that Matt Lafleur answered, although he sort of didn't answer it either, understandably. So everybody's wondering what is going to happen with regard to the preseason playing time. How much is Jordan Love going to play? How much are the starters going to play? There's so many young guys and all that. Matt Lafuer said, Hey,
it's going to be a fluid situation. I think the fact that the Packers are going to have a joint practice with the Cincinnati Bengals when they're on the road they're going to have a pair of joint practices with the New England Patriots when New England comes to Green Bay. I think a lot could hinge on just how the coaches feel about what the guys are, what the young guys in particular are getting out of those practices, and
where they are, including quarterback Jordan Love. As far as then deciding, okay, how much should they play in the preseason game? How much risk do you want to take? There? One thing I will say, and I said this from the beginning because people were asking, you know, way back in February, how much is Jordan Love going to play in the preseason if he takes over as a starting quarterback? I think it mostly hinges on how much does Matt
Lafleur want to play the starting offensive line? Because no offense to any of those other guys, but you're not going to put Jordan Love out there in a preseason game behind the number two offensive line. He's not going to do that. So it's not just about how much does Jordan Love need to play, but how much are the offensive is the number one offensive line in front of him going to play? All of that becomes, you know,
part of the puzzle fitting together. Just what is going to happen with the preseason playing time when we get a couple weeks down the road here.
Yeah, especially if the Cincinnati Bengals are lining up Trey Hendrickson, that's a decision that green By Packers need to make in that moment. The thing that's funny to me about this process is that I think there was only one year where this was actually a legitimate question. I think it's become sort of a pop popular thing for me
to bring up. But twenty twenty one, excuse me, was the one year where I thought this was actually a real question in preseason because that year, regardless of what they were going to do with Aaron Rodgers, I think actually that offensive line did need to get some snaps together in the preseason because you knew you weren't going to get David Baktiari back and you had to figure out what the plan of action was going to be
at that position. So we saw the first team starters actually be out there in those first two preseason games. But as you said, it comes back to our Elton Jenkins and David baktier are going to be out there in Cincinnati. Are they going to be out there against New England. If they are, okay, let's see Jordan go out there and maybe work a little bit. If they're not, you are getting two practices against actual NFL competition guys that do not look the same as your defense, and
I think there's a value in that. But their only situation I think Green Bay needs to figure out is when they travel to Cincinnati knowing whether or not Love is going to play, because you only have one real practice to figure that out. After that, maybe you can start to us, you know, maybe make some judgments on whether or not you think he needs to work. But at the end of the day, the Packers, they schedule
these joint practices for a reason. They want to get that work against other NFL competition, other NFL defensive coordinators. And I'm sure based on how they feel getting through Family Night probably will go a long way and determining which course of action they take as they move into the preseason.
Yeah, you want to get that work against other teams, But where you have the opportunity to protect your players and particularly the quarterbacks, and that's where there is a lot of value, certainly for young quarterbacks particular and young receivers and others on offense as well, that the packers are going to try to take advantage of every opportunity they have. There last thing I'll throw at you here, Wes, before we go and get ready for Wednesday mornings opening practice.
Anything else that you that is on your radar that you're going to be keeping an eye on in these first couple of days of practice before we come back for another show.
I always look at the special teams. I always look at the coverage units. I mean, there's not a whole lot to be drawn about that in the first week or so, but as you go through it, that's where you start to get some of those questions answered about who could potentially be those those secondary guys, those those guys that could end up making this roster as specialists.
When you see them start working on the first team units, when you start seeing them build that familiarity, that actually is sort of an glimpse into what the you know, Rich Basaci and his coaches are thinking. But also I think this is very important is seeing how the defense comes together throughout this training camp. Beause last year, the whole idea and the mantra of everybody was that this is going to be a top five group. They're going
to be dominant. Look at how much success they're having against Aaron Rodgers in this offense, and ultimately they got off to a kind of a slow start. There are going to be so many The defense is interesting right because there are so many positions where everything's solidified. If Devandre Campbell and Kwai Waraka are healthy, those are your inside linebackers. They could play together for a thousand snaps
this season. You know, JayR Alexander, Rusoul Douglas and probably Keishaw Nixon are going to be out there all the time. We know what the rotation looks like at outside linebacker, especially once Rashaun Gary's back. But defensive line, there's a lot of question marks. You have Kenny Clark, who has been a two time Pro Bowl player, and then you have the rest of the room that has combined for
two NFL starts. Right now, you look at the questions at safety right now, those are two big questions that Green Bay needs to answer with their position groups during
this training camp and into the preseason. And I am very interested to figure out what that is going to be because the defense does have I expectations and regardless of how they look in these training camp practices, it is going to be about making sure when you step on the field at Ford Field, excuse me, Soldier Field in week one, this can be a group that can be counted on and relied on here to help the Packers set the tone.
Yeah, and I think I think the other piece to that too is that the Packers may you know, every year we talk about the second year jump, but you know, players going from their rookie season to their second year. This year, in particular, I think the Packers are counting on that second year jump to play a major part on both sides of the ball. When you look at Watson, Dobbs,
and Toure at wide receiver. We talked about Zach tom possibly winning a spot on the offensive line or being the next man up, being the sixth man, Kway Walker, Devonte Wyatt. On defense, those guys going into their second seasons, you know, Matt Lafleur talked about those guys not playing with any hesitation anymore. They should know the playbook. They you know, it's it's all out every snap. There isn't there isn't as much thinking going on Brian Gudakunz mentioned
it's about it's about consistency. Yeah, anybody, a rookie anywhere, anybody from a rookie to a fifth year guy can flash in training camp and make a play here and there. But these guys who are graduating from being rookies into second year players, can they establish consistency? Can they do it day in and day out. It's not just you know, they make the headlines one day and then nobody's talking
about them again for another week. So those are the things to watch for because this second year, that this draft class from twenty twenty two, that is that's moving into their their second season there, the Packers are going to be counting on a lot of those guys to make a big time impact in twenty twenty three.
Yeah. And the other reason to focus on a too mike. If the Packers didn't feel like DeVante White couldn't handle it, if they felt like TJ. Slaton could have handled it, they were not so far up against the salary cap
that they couldn't have brought in veteran help. They did this, and they went the direction they went because they felt like these are the guys we drafted We knew the situation with Dean Lowery and jer and read in a lot of these veterans, and we were confident in moving forward with them now as the face of that defensive line. It's a gamble, it's a risk always, but certainly the Packers want to give these guys that opportunity. Same thing at tight ends, same thing at receiver. You have young
guys that you've invested in. Now you want to see those investments start to pay dividends. Yeah.
Absolutely, they've got they've got to play. They've got they've got to prove it. They have to play and prove that they belong and the Packers are going to be relying on some big time production out of young players to make this twenty twenty three season of success. So with that, we'll call it a wrap on this edition of Packers Unscript. It'd be sure to follow all of our coverage of the team, everything going on with training
camp at twenty twenty three. We will have it for you on Packers dot com and Wes and I will be back again in a couple of days. So for Wes, I am Mike. Thank you for tuning in everybody, and we will see you next time,