#676 Packers Unscripted: London lamentations

episode after the New England game. We spent quite a bit of time in that episode talking about how the Packers are. You know, their play both sides of the ball, up and down, lots of wild swings, lots of inconsistency. The bottom line is that inconsistency caught up with them overseas and it cost him a ball game that that everybody knows they should have won. Yeah, I mean, that was the message. Afterwards, Kenny Clark talked about it. A lot of guys, you know, put that that label on

it. It It was a bad loss. It was an emotional loss for the Green Bay Packers, not because they had so many fans there, the fact that this was the international debut. It's how they controlled the tempo of the game, especially in the first quarter, but even in the first half when when the Giants were being able to move the ball a little bit, it's still felt like a game that if green Bay limits the explosive plays and offensively protects the football, they were going to be able

to get back to North America four and one. But we saw so many things work against them that have kind of been calling cards so far. The third down defense kind of forsaking them a little bit. Green Bay starting over three, forcing those you know, forcing the Giants off the field on back to back drive to start the game to be able to get out to that lead, but then conversion after conversion, it didn't matter if it was third and short, it didn't matter if it was

third and long. The Giants were making them pay that. That was the first sign for me that something was just a miss with the Packers defense in this game. Was the Giants first touchdown drive of the game. They converted on both a third and thirteen and a third and nine on that same drive and then eventually scored the touchdown that pulled them within seventeen ten. Then the Packers got a field goal right at the end of the half to to get it to twenty ten at

the intermission. But the Packers defense has been so good on third down, had been so good on third down, and to see to see them give up seeming, you know, somewhat easily in a way. Although the second one, the third and nine, I give the Giants receiver credit. He made a heck of a play with the with the hit he took and the tackle attempt there by the Packers.

But to see the Packers give up a third and thirteen and a third and nine on the same drive and the Giants score touchdown, I just started to wonder, what's what's going on with the defense here in this ballgame? And then and and honestly, things just things just did not get better for green based defense too. But at the end of the day, to me, when you talk about the the ups and downs and and the wild swings in terms of the quality of play on both sides of the ball, we saw it against Tampa Bay,

but the Packers stopped the two point conversion. We saw it against New England, but then the defense with the Packers losing in the fourth quarter to a rookie third string quarterback, but the defense rises up and gets three consecutive three and outs, including overtime and uh and the Packers offense gets the tie and puts together the drive to win in overtime. It was the clutch moments, the crunch time moments that the Packers made the plays in

those games to win. Despite the inconsistencies, those crunch time plays were missing for the Packers. They didn't make them. They didn't they didn't make them inside the ten yard line on offense at the end, they didn't make them on defense when they had when they had the chances to possibly hold the Giants to field goals on those second half drives. If you don't make the plays that crunch time, you're not gonna win in this league. That's

just how it works. Yeah, that's why this game was so peculiar to me because early on Green Bay was making those plays, and my thought process going in is okay, if anything is going to happen here, based on the track record and based on this weird trip that they're on, maybe it's a slow start. Really wasn't a slow start. They were able to move the ball efficiently, didn't have any huge explosive runs. We're able to build enough off of it. Early on, you were able to get the

passing game going. The rhythm was there. I thought Alan Lazard was blocking well. They did the the cool little uh play action past Mercedes Lewis. They had some of the jet sweep motions going with Christian Watson and Randall Cobb was doing some really impressive things again on money downs. In the second half, everything flipped where it was now the Giants that were the ones converting. It was Sae Kwon.

Barkley was the one hitting the explosives, the forty yards off of the wildcat, the forty one yard hass after he leaves the game momentarily with the shoulder he re enters, comes free in the secondary and is able to break up a big gain on what ends up being the go ahead scoring drive for New York and Green Bay just didn't have any answers. You look at the long consider the sustainable drives that New York had starting at

their own nine going yards. Twelve play series, fifteen play series again, getting back to that that handbook for defensive play. The reason you want to limit the explosive in addition to the fact that it gets the opposition closer to the end zone. It's also about the more plays that a team has to run, the better possibility and probability you're going to have it a takeaway. Green Bay just wasn't able to get any takeaways in this Again, they weren't able to you know, keep them, you know, the

penalties mounted up. There just were so many different small things that early on in that game when they were getting some pressure on Daniel Jones, they were doing a good job against a quan that was allowing them to to kind of control the town bow. Once they lost that, they just couldn't regain it. Yeah, here's here's what I

want to do. I want to turn the show in a little bit different direction from normal because there's so much out there about the you know, the three passes for the three and out with the score twenty to twenty, the plays on the third and short and fourth and short inside the ten yard line, all of that being discussed. Matt Lafleur talked about all of that at length in his news conference. You talked about it in inbox that

I've got more in inbox on Wednesday morning. My story Monday night after Matt la Fleur's press conference has a lot of a lot of that stuff crystallized. So here's what I want to ask you. It was seventeen to three packers, it was twenty to ten packers at halftime. What did you feel if you were to point to one thing, because to me, there were a lot of moments, But what did you feel was the turning point? For me?

And I wrote about this an inbox and I think your point that you're going to make two is really good. But for me, it was the Rashan Gary sack and it it was first of the second first play the second half because my thought process there is, okay, even if the offense is kind of stuttering, you know, struggling a little bit, they're going to be able to find themselves. There's going to I think they're gonna be able to run a for minute offense if they maintain this lead.

Gary gets an eleven yard sack, and everything that the Giants were doing up until that point was sort of out of the Green Bay Packers playbook. Manageable third downs, high percentage throws, being able to move the chains with your running back, and when they go back eleven yards on first down. In addition to the fact the emotional side of that at Rashaan Gary being able to actually get his fifth straight sack and his fifth straight game

of the season. It was going to be hard for Jones in that offense with the back to the wall, down three receivers to be able to I feel like convert to get second and twenty one to be third and manageable and to get the ball moving down field. But the other reason I point to that play is there's a subject active element to defensive holding. Russell Douglas was called for that on that play. It gave them the automatic first down and wiped out the sack for Gary.

And when I look at the defense, they kept the ball carry in front of them at times. But in terms of making a play, that was kind of the last one for Green Band this matchup. Yeah, I don't I don't discount that one at all. I do think that was a big play at that time. You know, the Giants had had driven for a touchdown, as we talked about the third and thirteen third nine, they'd driven for a touchdown in the second quarter, but they only

had ten points on the board. And if they're starting out the second half, that opening possession of the second half and second and twenty one instead of, you know, getting bailed out by the defensive holding call. I do think that that could have changed things for me though. For me, though, the turning point was a little bit later than that, and it was after the Giants had taken that opening possession of the second half and gone down and kicked a field goal, and it was thirteen.

The Packers came back the other way. They got inside the New York forty yard line. I believe they're on the thirty six yard line, and it was third and eight at right there, you're looking at a fifty four yard Mason Crosby field goal. Certainly the way he was kicking in that game, I think that's uh. I think that's a reasonable one. And even if you can get any positive yards there, even if you don't convert the

third and eight, make that a shorter field goal. Getting three points there, you re established the two score lead, just like you did at the end of the first half. It's twenty three to thirteen. Then, with what was going wrong with the defense, If the Giants go down and get a touchdown, the Packers are still winning. It's twenty to twenty. To me. The sack on third and eight on that opening Green Bay possession of the second half

that took the Packers out of field goal range. That's the one that felt like the turning point for me, because then suddenly this game that the Packers felt in control of and they were on the verge of re establishing a two score lead, then suddenly that doesn't happen. The Giants go the other way and score, and it's a tie game, and and everything just felt so so

different after that. So it's it's just interesting. I think there there there are certainly many points and and that's not the discount what the Giants did at crunch time and what the Packers didn't do at crunch time, because that's what the that's what this game came down to. But um, if I made but but but there were there were there were just those moments where you you felt, you felt things turning, and to me, that was the most important one. You thought it was the Gary play.

I think that's a valid choice as well. But if I can add an amendment to yours too that I think factors into this, it's that not only if you get those three points there, how valuable could those three points be in a game? Like this. It's also the fact that Green Bay Special teams came through. They down the punt at the nine yard line, and then the Giants come back with the fifteen plays and after that

that's where they tie the game. And now you're starting to look in the mirror a little bit like Okay, now it's not just close for comfort anymore. This is jimate to sudden Suddenly it was anybody. It was anybody's ball. It was anybody's ballgame there, and the Giants had all the u had all the momentum on their side. Um, I'll take care of some sponsor business here West and

then I want to ask you another question. Serious X and NFL Radio delivers hard hitting analysis and up to the NFL news that true football fanatics need seven three six and ad Cousin Subs. We have something for everyone, like our Wisconsin Cheese Kurds, mac and Cheese, golden fries, and creamy shakes, all paired with your favorite sub or sub in a bowl. Cousin Subs fifty years of better. Alright, My next question for you is you have to you have to learn something from losses. You have to you

have to use it. You have to use the negatives in in some way, shape or form to uh to get yourself back on track, to get things headed back in the right direction. I'm not asking you know you and I are not XS and OS experts, were not NFL football coaches. But I'm interested in your opinion. What do you think from this game, this London trip, the tough loss, frustrating loss. What's the biggest lesson the Packers have to learn from this game? What do they have

to take from it to move forward. It's an excellent question because I think there are a lot of answers to it, and I don't think any of them are necessarily wrong. I look at the offense um, it just it was so easy in that first quarter, especially to see again the longest carry that the Packers had was eleven yards. It wasn't like they were just running up

and down the field on the Giants. But there was that statistic afterwards about how neither Aaron Jones nor A J. Dylan had been tackled within two yards of the line of scrimmage. They just consistently moved the ball. What does that tell you You're consistently ending up in those second and favorable third and favorables and ultimately converting Green Bay just got away from that and and I totally get it.

Matt Lafleur for twenty six minutes did an exemplary job of explaining, you know, basically the can plays the run solutions all that makes total sense. But we go back to it, Aaron Jones and AJ Dillon are your two top playmakers. Packers know this, the opponent knows this. And I was asked this question on the pregame radio show. But with Dennis Crousey asking about this version of the

Packers can they is this sustainable? Going back to last week, I said it probably isn't because teams are going to load the box. They are going to do things to take those running backs away. But as of right now, in week five and week six, that's the Packers as the crow flies, you know solution. I feel like to winning ball games, they weren't able to do it. And it isn't just about hey, put the ball in their hands. It's that the Packers are really freaking good at it.

Mercedes Lewis had some exceptional blocks, especially on that last drive trying to get down to tie the game up. Al Lazard for my money, Mike is the best blocking receiver in this league. It's not just that well run the ball or whatever. You know, Aaron Rodgers is great too, but they are just they are built to do this in a way that any other Packer of teams I've covered have not been built for. Yeah, I'm with you, I'm with you, and in that I think one needs

to be taken from this is that. And and I understand with regard to with regard to the running backs that you have your run at run alerts, your run solutions, whatever term you want to use. Where Rogers, you know, spits the ball out horizontally and and the that was extremely efficient as the Packers racked up twenty points in this game. Matt Lafleur is calling those plays, and those plays are you know, the first option, so to speak, is the handoff to run the ball. Things get changed,

it goes somewhere else, and and and that's working. I think at the end of the day, I think, I think what the Packers need to take out of this though, is and this is the line I'm that that will be in Wednesday Mornings Insider inbox. I think they need to be both stubborn as well as creative in getting the ball to Jones and Dylan. If if the run solutions take those opportunities away from them, so be it. But then you still need to find ways. And I

don't care if you hand it off. I don't care if you pitch it, if you throw it, if you want to do push passes off of jet motion, whatever. I just I think those, as you said at the very beginning of your comment, Jones and Dillon are the

Packers two best playmakers on offense. And I think you have to you have to be stubborn and creative in getting them in getting them the football, because to run sixty plays and for those two guys to only touch the ball nineteen times, that's not going to be a winning formula for the Green Bay Packers in the long haul. And and I think everybody knows that. I think the coaches know it, and the players know it. It's a game that got away from him that they shouldn't have lost.

But I think that on the offensive side of the ball, to me, that's the lesson. And I'm not going to keep beating you know that the horse here. But it goes back to that twenty five touches thing. We talked about and the fact that they are still undefeated in this regular season actual with Aaron Rodgers. When those two guys are able to go over that mark, I also just feel like, whatever you have to do, and I

think the stubborn word is perfect for it. A J. Dillon can't he just have six carries, especially when he produces the way he did thirty or four yards. I mean, he was productive in this game and he only touched the ball six times. You have to you have to find ways to feed those horses. There's a lot of time left here at this offense is still finding itself. Christian Watson leaves with a hamstring that required an adjustment.

And I don't want to completely crap on the run solutions because you go back to the New England game. They partially won that game because of the run solutions, because of those quick flares out to Dobbs. They put up twenty points against the Giants in the first half in large part because of those run solutions. You can't you can't just say you have to stop doing that. That that's that That's my point is that you can't

totally get away from that. But if though if those are taking opportunities away from thirty three and twenty eight, then you have to make sure opportunities for them are being built back in so that they are still a major part of what's going on. You have to make sure you're still making the same recipe. If the recipe calls for twelve cupcakes and you had to make some concessions, that's fine. But when Tommy and Susie go back into the catch a kitchen, they still want to have their

twelve cupcakes. You have to find a way to make it work. On the defensive side of the ball. What do you think here? This This was we've we've seen as we talked about it was. It was. It's been an up and down ride for the Packers defense. They you know, they were great for a long stretch against Chicago, then two drives get away from him. They were great almost the entire game, fifty eight minutes against Tom Brady

and the Buccaneers. Then Brady did what he did, you know, does what he does to almost anybody in a in a two minute drive. The defense was very very solid for what nine really for nine out of eleven possessions against against New England. So I don't want I don't want to completely dump on the defense, but but to suddenly see this defense give up five consecutive scoring drives twenty seven points without being able to get off the field on third down, force upon do something to change

the momentum. What does the defense have to take away from this performance as it moves forward. Well, one, you know what I'm gonna use this is too because I think you're gonna want to talk about it, so I'll bring it up. Secondly, first, and I don't know what the answer is might because I am again not a next as an Ow's guy, But the crossers have become an issue. The production in the middle of the field

has become an issue. Question. Now, I can't sit here and tell you, oh, you know, the nickel corner needs to be doing this, the free safety needs to be pulling up. I don't know all that stuff that the mixing and matching of you know, quarters coverage and and you know man, all these different things that you can do. But I think everybody agrees. And the stats are incredible

when you look at them. The fact that the Packers do have the number two ranked past defense in the National Football League, but there's this amount of air traffic in the middle of the feet that they're giving up yards on the second part that that I'm guessing you're gonna want to branch off too, because you wrote a

nice story about it. Is the fact that whether it's the communication, whether it's the sense of urgency, whatever, it is, this defense getting set up, looking confident and also executing. That's the one thing these last two games. And maybe I'm just you know, identifying it more because it's been a topic of conversation, but you see a lot of snap like pre snap communications seconds before the ball is snap,

where guys are trying to talk to each other. It doesn't look like a unit right now that is I don't want to say confident, but there looks to be some uncertainty there that you have to get figured out. Yeah.

I thought it was really interesting because with what la Fleur said, essentially what he opened his twenty six minute media session on Monday with regard to talking about the defense, because they're all there's all these things floating floating around out there about well do the new to play more man versus zone or or you know, what about the what about blitz is or you know, playing more aggressively in this and that, and and I think there there's

certainly a time for those discussions. But it was very interesting to me that that what the head coach pointed to immediately after watching the film of the defense was seeing guys not in position quickly and efficiently prior to the snap to where then they can they can look for they can look for the tells, they can you know, diagnose the formation, reflect on their film study to potentially know what's coming and and be able to read. I mean,

you know how this league works. I mean, if you're a half step slow in your reaction, that can be the difference between a third down stop and a first

down or god forbid, a touchdown. Right. So the fact that la Fleur pointed to that I thought, I thought was very was very interesting because to me, that's a that's an easily fixable issue if getting you know, getting the call communicated and and he said, it's on the call getting in as well as the players then after the call is communicated to get out there to get

to their spots. Because if they are, if they are at their spots and everybody's on their toes, then if you do have to make a last second adjustment before the snap. It becomes a lot easier, right because everybody's in tune, everybody's all set and ready to go, and then a switch like that isn't isn't quite as difficult

or taxing to process. So I thought that was interesting and I'll be I'll be very interested to watch now that we will be um back up, you know, from the high perch at lambeau Field for this next game, to see what the defense looks like now that La Fleur has made this point, to see what it looks like coming out of the huddle, how do they get to their spots and what is and what is happening

pre snap. I think that's definitely going to be a story with this defense, because we know the personnel is there. But by and large, it's not like you take the whole scheme and throw it out because you had one game.

This is the same scheme that completely shut down the San Francisco forty niners, and you know, with the season on the line in a playoff game last January, it's not that you know, you don't take everything and throw it away, but there are things that need to there are things that need to be addressed and things that need to be fixed, and I and I'm curious to see how they how they respond after hearing what Matt la Fleur had to say about it. Yeah, and we'll

talk about the Jets there this week. But I mean, the game is gonna be very similar, I think in a lot of ways with what they're going to see with the Jets. Do I mean, Zach Wilson is not throwing the ball all over the yard right now. When they've been on this two game winning streak, it's been for the most part, protecting it and being efficient and

letting Bryce Hall create um some incredible opportunities. A hundred seventy nine total yards last week, seventy nine yard touchdown catch you know, catching run well and and and good luck figuring out who exactly the Jets are gonna throw the ball to. They've got six guys, six different guys with sixteen or more receptions through the first five games of the season. They spread the ball over the place. So I mean, like the challenges is still going to

be the challenge here. I just feel like something's gonna turn. You needed to turn fast. But this Packers defense is better than a unit that just has one pick. They're they're they're better than the unit that showed on the field on Sunday. Um, And I feel like, whether it's Kenny Clark, whether it's Rashaun Gary, Um, you know, Jerry Alexander, the amount of Pro Bowl and all pro talent that they have littered throughout this defense that will still reveal itself.

I feel like it's just the fact that the the unit that looked dominant and not just against the Packers defense or Packers offense. They did this against the Saints, they had stretches like this against Chicago Bears. The unit that looks like they can get off the field every single time they step foot on it, that unit needs to kind of think it's some of its swagger back. Yeah,

I I think so too. Um. Before we go, just want to lay out the picture of where things stand in the NFC North, in particular that big game Minnesota and Chicago. The Vikings blew a big lead but then pulled it out at the end. So Minnesota is a top the NFC North at four and one, Packers right behind him at three, into Chicago now two and three,

and Detroit. Heading into the week, the Lions were the number one scoring offense in the NFL, and they went to New England and got blanked twenty nine to nothing by the Patriots. So once again, I'm not just not really sure what. I'm not really sure what to think about the Lions. The Bears have to be frustrated coming

back the way they did. They got the lead in Minnesota, then they let it get away, and then they had a turnover right at the end of the game when they were when they were trying to rally again to UH to tie that thing up late and UH and the turnover bid them. So UM, a long way to

go here, obviously in the NFC North. But the Packers a game behind the Vikings, and and obviously the difference right now is is that Week one victory by Minnesota at US Bank, for sure, and in the other hallmark of them right now, you know, with Kevin o'cond I mean, they're winning close games. They're winning games that you know,

teams they should beat now like the Bears. But even if it doesn't go according to plan, they still have showed the resolve and the ability to overcome adversity to get to They're having the they're having the same discussions that that Packers fans and and we've had with regard to the Packers over the last couple of years, when when you're winning games kind of ugly, right, I mean that that that Minnesota win they had over Detroit when they were basically losing the whole game and then they

pulled it out at the end. Not a pretty victory, but guess what a victory is a victory? And uh and you can't take anything away from the Vikings being four and one right now. And I love that you said that because it leads me into my perfect transition into the Detroit Lions. Because not only are the Lions now one and four after you know, the Belichick, Tree and Matt Patricia everyone, they just put on a masterclass

in coaching. They took away Amen ra st Brown. I understand am Andra was injured a little bit coming out of the last you know, missed a game, but they were physical with t J. Hockenson. They shut them. They played the way you expect them to play defensively when you have, you know, a rookie fourth round pick that's

having to step up as your quarterback. But then you look at the Lions, they have to think about this now for two weeks, and yeah, they'll probably give a chance to get DeAndre Swift back and maybe get a little healthier here, but they have to kind of stew on it and they get out of the by here's what they gotta face, Mike. You get Dallas, you get Miami, you get the Green Bay Packers, you get the Bears in Chicago, and then you got to go to New York to face the Giants, who are suddenly a four

win team. It's a gauntlet, man, And again it goes back to show you. And it's why I won't apologize for the Packers being three and two. No, it has been the first prettiest five games of the season for Green Bay. But it's not easy to win in this league. And there are teams every single year that play as a unit like the Giants did on Sunday, are not the most talented, but lean into their skill position players and guys play complimentary football. That's how you win. Yeah.

Right now in the NFC, you've got the Philadelphia Eagles at five and oh, Dallas and the Giants both four and won the NFC. The NFC East is suddenly the um, suddenly the division to beat, with with those top three teams being a combined thirteen and two. I don't think anybody would have predicted that after the first five weeks of the season. But there's your five and oh to four in ones, Minnesota four and one, and then you

have the Packers and others at at three and two. Um, it's ah, there's there's a long way to go here. And it's it's interesting because you you just rattle off some things with regard to Detrade schedule. You look at it, you look at every team schedule and and it's like where, you know where where where can you look at where can you look at things and go, oh, yeah, you ought to be able to win, you know, three or four in a row right there. Not in two thousand

and twenty two in the NFL. Man, that's just that's just not how this goes. You've gotta you've gotta you've gotta strap it on, buckle up every single week, and then uh and and take your chances and and if you don't play dynam night football for four quarters, then make the plays in the fourth quarter and maybe you're gonna come out with a win. That's what this season has been so far. No doubt. And it's funny this is the year that, of course the North ends up

rotating here against the NFC East. So it just shows you you're never quite sure. Everyone at the beginning of the year, those schedules come on, it's like, okay, well they get Packers get you know, four wins there, you know, five or six wins in the division? Hey there thirteen four. You just you never can be too quite sure, unless,

of course, maybe you're facing Carolina. Yeah, looking for a new head coach for But with that, we'll call it a wrap on this edition of Packers Unscript, and be sure to follow all of our coverage of the team all the time. We've got it all for you on Packers dot com. For West, I'm Mike. Thank you for tuning in everybody. We'll see you next time.