#607 Packers Unscripted: Group dynamics

roll with it. So well, Hey, I want to start today's discussion though, talking about the Packers Wide Receiver group. You have a story that UH posted on our website Packers dot Com talking about this group collectively. Now we know who the number one is, Davante Adams. We talked on our last show about the number six, Malie Taylor and him securing that last roster spot at the position.

The real intrigue with this position group is those four guys in the middle, obviously talking about Marcos Valdi, Scanling, Al Lazard, Randall Cobb and A Marii Rodgers. It's a very interesting collection in the type of collection of receivers in terms of the varied skill sets and experience levels and all of that. The type of collection the Packers haven't really had around here for quite a while long time. And you know, I go back to two thousand fifteen.

Remember Mike McCarthy and his staff are kind of catching some flak because it was a lot of the same eleven personnel. Now, I think a big thing about that is that was pretty definitive who their top three receivers are, who their tight end was, and ultimately who they're running back. Was just to clarify, eleven personnel is one running back, one tight end, and three wide receivers. That's what you're talking. Yeah, and and yeah, it wasn't so much for a lack

of creativity. It's just that that those are kind of the options, right. What I like about the way the Packers have built this thing over the last two or three years is even wrote in the story it's more of a menu than it is a depth chart. Because, as Mark was Abolt the Scantling said, in a lot of these guys have talked about this offseason, nobody does

basically the same thing as another guy. You're not mixing your personnel for the sake of getting different guys on the field, You're mixing your personnel depending on what kind of look you want to give the defense. Now that extends to the tight end rooms with Robert Tonyan, with Mark with Mercedes Lewis. That extends to the backfield with three very different running backs, different body types at that position.

But most importantly, I think it's receiver because you have the downfield threat of Mark was Veld, this Scantling, a guy that has developed more as a route runner and an underneath receiver. You have the goon Alan Wizard, a guy that does the nitty gritty stuff but also can also burn you for a hundred yards too if he needs to know. Randall Cobb I think is gonna be a really intriguing fit. He gives them the slot receiver the Packers really have lacked since he left the first time.

And then a Mari Rodgers, certainly the rookie third round pick. It's gonna be Davanta Adams. You're gonna see a lot of DAVANTAE sees that if he's healthy. But the four guys on the field with Adams or three, if you end up seeing a lot of Aaron Jones, that's where

the entrgue lies with this Packers offense. Yeah, I really loved that line, that that term from Matt Lafleur when I had asked him after the Buffalo Bills after the last preseason game just about the receiver group in general, because this was actually before we knew who the sixth

was going to be. But I asked him about, you know, knowing essentially going into training camp barring injury, we knew who the top five receivers were going to be that would make this roster, and what he thought of the group, and he kind of went through him one by one

and he used that term goon for Alan Lazar. Now, I took it as sort of a comparison to to like the in hockey, where you call a guy, you know, a goon because he kind of he stirs it up and he's kind of the enforcer and you know, willing to do the dirty work and whatnot, as you said, But it's also a term of endearment in some respects because that's not all at the guy brings to the table, right,

I mean, it's it's part of his role. And Alan lazarren is probably the best blocking receiver that the Packers have, but yet we've seen him make plenty of plays down the field, a couple of big ones against the Saints last year before he got injured, made the big clinching touchdown against the Rams in the playoff game last January

when he got behind the defense. So um, I'm really intrigued, especially because Lazard had the injury last season where he missed such a big chunk of time coming off of a big game when he when he did get hurt, I'm really intrigued to see where things go with him,

and then obviously with Velde's scantling MVS. I mean, I know, I know there's skepticism amongst the fan base because they remember the drop passes and some of the frustrations and all this, and and I'll say this, I think I've said it an insider inbox and in other places as well. You and I are at training camp practice every day, and this is the first time I can remember since Valdes's scantling has been here where it felt like on pretty much a daily basis, he was a presence on

the practice field. There were in past summers, and I'm not saying he had bad training camps, but in past summers there would be two, three, four days in a row where you kind of didn't really notice him where he was. Yeah, he's running his routes and taking his reps, but he's not really there. This summer, it felt like he was there, like every day there, there was a presence there and uh and I think it certainly bodes well for for what could be ahead for MVS. A

couple of things I really like about MBS. One that he never gets enough credit for it. Guys really durable. I mean, he doesn't miss much time. That's true. It's been out there and forgot that. That's that fast. Typically if you run in the four three's you can have some hamstring injury, flat ups. That's the guy that takes care of his body. He makes sure that he's accountable to his teammates and and really brings it every single day.

But more importantly, everybody wants to talk about, Okay, there was a drop there, there's a drop there. Can you live with them? All that stuff that that has happened in the past. But what I want fans and people that challenge them to remember is make sure you remember the Tampa Bay game, or make sure you remember some of these other games too, because those are the games that the opponent is having to watch on film. Those are the examples where this is where this guy is

going to beat you. This is what you have to take into account when eight three is on the field, and what makes him so dangerous. I feel in this offense is when you have a possession, you know, receiver like Alan Lazard. When you have a superstar like Davante Adams, the number six ranked player amongst his peers of the National Football League right now, He's not just a guy that you can just put a safety over the top of MVS that is, and just try to take him

out of a game. You don't have as many resources to do that. In the secondary. You have to be cognizant of where he is and you've gotta be really careful with how you handle that matchup. This is not an easy game. It is a difficult position to play. The important thing with MBS is for all the orbs that have converged over him over time, he's been able to pull through all of it. And I thought he had one of his best performances in the Packers uniform

in the NFC title game. I don't even go back to last year's training camp, like the two guys, I said, it was him and it was Rashan Gary. I thought MBS had a better camp this year, but he really did stand out to me last year with what he was doing, giving you signs that, Okay, he's gonna bounce

back from that nineteen season. Remembers telling people if if Gary and MBS don't perform, I don't know what the preseason or what the training camp is even good for, because to me, those guys really stood out, and I thought you saw him take a step last season. I think going into year four, you're gonna see him take another. Yeah, I would agree with you. It certainly seems to be

setting up that way. And you and I were noticing this before Aaron Rodgers made all of the nice compliments that he said about MVS and what Matt Lafleur said, and all of those comments are genuine. I'm just the point I'm trying to make is that you and I were noticing this on the practice field before his teammates and whatnot. We're talking about him like this is definitely something that noticed with him, and now it has to carry over from training camp from the practice field to

the games. We have to see that. Obviously, these guys didn't play in the preseason games for good reason, so we need to see it carry over. But everything is, everything is setting up, The stage is being set here for something that that could be a pretty big year for MVS. And they are gonna have a really difficult defense to contest with with Dennis Allen's group there with the Saints here in a week and a half, no question.

But I'm really Mike, the thing I'm most excited to see is that Monday afterwards when NFL g s I s puts up there played playing time stats, seeing how they allocate these reps, seeing which receivers play, how much they play, who's in the backfield, who's that tight end there? Again, Mike, there were years where it's like, okay, well you can kind of jot down Jordan Davante Randall. They're all going to play about sixty seventy snaps. It's not like that anymore,

and it's something that could change week to week. It's not like we're gonna look at the snap counts for week one and go, Okay, this is how they're going to do it all year. No it's going to be a week to week thing in this offense. As you said, it's it's a menu of receivers with with all the different things that they bring to the table. So from a matchup standpoint, from a game plan standpoint, things could really change UM week to week with what mattel Fleur,

Nathaniel Hackett and these offensive coaches want to do. UM some sponsor business. Here West Serious x M NFL Radio delivers hard hitting analysis and up to the minute NFL news that true football fanatics need seven three sixty five. And at Cousin Subs, we have something for everyone like our Wisconsin Cheese Kurds, mac and Cheese, golden fries, and creamy shakes, all paired with your favorite sub or sub

in a bowl. Cousin Subs, we believe in better alright. Uh. Late this past week Thursday evening, a long awaited Packers Hall of Fame induction ceremony delayed by the pandemic and whatnot, rescheduled multiple times. All that Packers Hall of Fame induction for Charles Woodson and Al Harris, and well, I what I wrote about on our Packers website. Both of those guys talked about it that. Uh, it's almost two fitting that these two star cornerbacks go into the Packers Hall

of Fame together because u um, they really were. They only played together in games on the field essentially for four years two thousand six through two thousand and nine, but that was a special pair that the Packers had on the field together and it was neat to see them get this honor together. Great job are you covering that. I appreciate you giving me off on Thursday, you know, afternoon and evening, be able to get home a littlettle bit earlier to my family. But here's the thing I love,

and no one talks about this enough. The mid two thousands things were kind of in shambles there with the Packers cornerback contingent. There was a miss draft picks, there was some you know, Mike mackenzie basically demanding a trade. Yeah, the contract situation, all the issues they had, their Al Harris was the constant. They made that trade in what two thousand three two in from Philadelphia, which, by the way, in two thousand twenty one, I never see the Eagles

making that trade anymore. That was more like they were so loaded at cornerback, but with how many cornerbacks you need now in today's NFL. Who knows if that deal ever gets done. But what I loved about it is he was the constant for six seven years in that secondary and in two thousand and six they bring in

Charles Woodson. Two guys from very different paths, different walks of life, but how they came together, and as Woodson kind of talked about the work that they were willing to put in, the grind that they were willing to chase, that's what kind of binded them and for them in Woodson set it from his first conference call when the announcement was made, he wanted to go in with Al Harris. It took a little bit longer than I think everybody expected,

but he gets that honor. You can tell how much this is the guy that just went into Canton like earlier this month, you are last month. Now. You can tell, though, how much this honor means to him too, and in the path that he has traveled. It was a cool night and I'm glad that obviously he was able to

enjoy it with a close friend. Yeah, it was really interesting hearing Woodson kind of tell the story of how they would they would go to practice, and Al and Charles would kind of look at each other and go, Okay, we're gonna work today, all right, Yeah, it's time to work. And what they meant by that is they were just going to take all the reps at cornerback with the number one defense being out there, and they weren't going to let the younger guys like rotate, and they were

just going to take them all. Maybe on a hot day, he said, they would take a playoff. Yeah, exactly. They let Grammont Williams or Jared Bush or one of you know, one of these younger guys slip in there once in a while, but that was you know, and those are the kinds of things that we didn't necessarily see because during regular season practice as reporters, we don't get to

watch the eleven on eleven. So you hear these you hear these stories after the fact about how during that eleven on eleven work in the regular season, those guys really did go to work. And Al Harris wanted to be a Pro Bowler every single year and he did get a couple of Pro Bowl honors. And Charles Woodson talked about how it's it's so clear shape we hear it so often about players saying, you know, the competition, this and that, that they push each other to be better.

And I'm not I'm not dismissing it, but we do hear it so often. The thing about Charles and al As it was very, very real. They really did, They really did push each other because they were both trying to be the best in the game at the same position, and they were on the same team, you know, and they got they got to practice together, play together on a daily, on a weekly basis, and that's a that's a really that's a really interesting set of four years.

And I also look back as well that two thousand and six to two thousand nine will end with al obviously going you know, going back to two thousand three, and then Charles staying with Green Bay through two thousand and twelve. Those guys played through and came back from a lot of injuries. The their their toughness. It's it's no surprise that head athletic trainer Brian Engle, affectionately known as Flee, is the guy that Charles Woodson chose to

present him for Hall of Fame induction. Because Woodson was in the training room a lot he was dedicated to getting out there absolutely as often as he could. When you look at the track record of these two players, and Fleet called them, pound for pound, two of the toughest guys he's ever come across in the National Football League, and and Flea has been here for twenty five years

in the Packers training room. The their dedication to being out there for their teammates, they did not until Al Harris had the knee injury in two thousand nine the a c L and until Charles Woodson had the broken collar bone in two thousand and twelve, which was the second time he had broken a collar bone after doing so obviously in Super Bowl forty five. Until those major injuries, those guys you could count on one hand the number of games that they missed as members of the Packers.

Their their their dedication to their craft was exceptional. I remember in two thousand and eight two UH I was reading I believe it was either Pete Doherty rooted or robbed Demoskas when I was working at the Press, because that when the report came out that Al Harris had the ruptured spleen, and I remember thinking to myself, that sounds like the worst injury you could ever possibly have. And the way that these guys persevered through this. I

mean even Charles Woodson. I mean, the guy breaks his collar bone in the Super Bowl and I'm sure there's a lot of adrenaline, no question about that, especially even when he wasn't playing with you know, them being that close to a super Bowl title. I sometimes look at these guys and I go, you know, as someone that's never broken a bone, he's never torn in a c

L Like, how do you get yourself up? You know, not just the fact that you get an injury, you rehab it, but then want to come back after that. They're just they're cut from a different cloth. They're different types of dudes. And you know, I'll say it for

the last time. I've been saying this all offseason about Woodson, but the amount of professionalism that he showed throughout his career, this is a guy that if you're not going to practice, if you're gonna be hurt all week and rehabbing all week, do you know how much film stud do you have to do? How much preparation has to go in when you're not actually out there getting the physical reps? You know too, you know, Wednesday through Friday. Charles Woodson was

always always prepared. He's the only guy. He's the only guy I've ever seen who could who could miss as much practice as he missed in order to try to keep his body healthy and then and go play at a Pro Bowl on Sundays every single week. It was. It was remarkable what he did and up until what two thousand nine times. I mean, the guy was on

an island a lot of times too. I mean it's it's about as obvious as it gets in the National Football League if you're not up to par playing one on one against some of these guys, and Woodson did it better than anyone. Yeah. Well, that that segways to one other topic. I want to get to here before we sign off, because I answered a question in Insider Inbox.

There was a fan writing in and I apologize I don't remember his or her name at the moment, but just wondering, you know, what, what's the status of the Packers secondary right now? Kind of asking some questions about it, and and I actually you know, and partly Charles and al going into the Hall of Fame, you know, this

is this is what triggered my memory. But in looking at the Packers, if you look at the top six defensive backs on this roster, and I'm talking about the four at corner, Alexander King, Stokes, and Sullivan, and then

you're two starting safeties Amoson Savage. I honestly think and you can you can correct me if you have a different perspective on this, but I think this is this is as strong a top six group in the secondary as the Packers have had since for for my money, going back to two thousand and nine, which is when the top four corners were Woodson, Harris, Tremont, Williams, Jarrett Bush, and you're starting safeties where Nick Collins and Atari Bigbie,

I couldn't find a top six. I couldn't find a top six that to me compared going into a season with the top six that the Packers have here four teens close just because you had Casey Hayward and Devon House kind of struggling. You can only get one of those eyes on the field, which Tremont playing in the slot. But the safety position just wasn't as strong. Yeah, I mean, haha, came on late throughout the season you had Mica there,

but yeah, no, no question about it. I guess I was thinking more of micah As as a corner or not not as much as he was playing bass, and then he was going back in the sub packages. But he was at the embasy of that position. Haha. It was a rookie to your actual point, though, it is an incredibly deep six and the amount of resources to put into that position as well, right, I mean you have a first round pick in Darnell Savage, two first

round picks and Jire Alexander Eric Stokes. Uh, Kevin King was as close as you can get to being a first round pick at number thirty three, and then Adrian Amos being you know, paid and rewarded the way he was in two thousand nineteen. It's a good group. The other guy to keep an eye on is gonna be Henry Black at this point in time. Looks like he'll be that dime guy. Uh if if Amos moves into the you know, into the box. But my eyes are on Eric Stokes this season, Mike, and he's gonna have

to be ready because JR. Alexander pitty me in professionalism. Kevin King, when he's healthy, he can get the job done outside. But we know how This goes with the cornerback position. At any given time, you might have to make an adjustment and Stokes has to be ready for it. And that's why Rogers tested him the way he did. That's the reason why Davante Adams tested him the way

he did. This is going to be an excellent opportunity for him to grow here these first few weeks, but at any given moment, that young man needs to be

ready to contribute. Yeah, I think it's going to be interesting to see with Joe Berry's defense, because there's there's certainly plenty of of dime defense with six defensive backs that's played in the NFL these days, and when you have Henry Black Vernon Scott as as your reserve safeties, and as we talk about with um, these top four cornerbacks the Packers have, it will be interesting to see when Joe Berry calls the dime, is it going to be three corners three safeties or is it going to

be four corners to safeties And maybe they maybe they'll do that interchangeably depending on certain matchups with with the opponent and whatnot. So the way the game is played these days, you see six defensive backs on the field quite a bit, and not just on third down. It actually happens um on on some other downs as well.

That's something to watch here from a personnel standpoint as the Packers move into And that's why Amos was so important, you know, especially last year him having to kind of pick up that hybrid linebacker role when Raven Green got hurt. He's a guy that is a really good cover safety, but also is can you know, take on a running back in the you know, in the trenches if he

needs to to A really underrated player. I know the team realizes his value, but I think widely throughout the National Football League understanding that yes, this was a former fifth round pick, but Adrian Ames is one of the best at his position. He's going to be such an important lynch pin as well for this defense. And honestly, Mike, I'm excited to see it all come into you know, fruition this season. They have the pieces, they feel like

they have the coordinator. Can the Packers really make that push to be in the dominant unit. Yeah, well, we shall see. And as we return to the studio next week, we'll start previewing a Week one against the New Orleans Saints. With that, we'll call it a wrap on this edition of Packers Unscripted. Be sure to follow all of our coverage of the team. We've got it all for you on packers dot com. For West, I'm Mike. Thank you for tuning in, everybody. You will see you next yeah,