#594 Packers Unscripted: More OTA observations

you hear from our studios at lambeau Field West. Yesterday we got our second look this spring at a Packers organized team activity also known as an O T A. And UH, I want to start with we have a lot of observations obviously from this uh this practice we got to witness, But I want to start with what you brought up in our three Things video that we did at the end of practice with Larry McCarron, because you talked about what you saw from first round draft

pick Eric Stokes, and UM, I just want you to expand on that because he he was he was an interesting guy to watch when they went to the eleven on eleven work there towards the tail end of the workout, and as we found out after practice, he actually also signed his first round pick contract. So I don't know if he had a little extra juice. You know, there was suddenly a bunch more money in his bank account.

We know that, So I tend to show up a little bit better after bonus Day, right, at least I do, But no, I mean, here, here's what you look for during the off season program, right, because it's non contact, it's it's usually big moments. But what stood out to me the most about Eric Stokes is he took a really good first open practice that we were able to be at, and I felt like he followed up on it in the second one, stringing those together. We don't

know what the other practices were liking to. We're not there. We're not there every day at this point. We can only see what's in front of us. And what I saw Mike is a guy that his body awareness and positioning is exceptional for a rookie player. The forty time, as I said during Three Things Sub four three forty time,

that's gonna obviously catch your attention. The breaking out with the interceptions last year at Georgia, that's going to catch your attention because that's something he lacked before his his final season there. But it was the fact that, you know, there was a stat that stood out to me from Pro Football Focus about how he had like the lowest UH passer rating allowed in man coverage in college football last year, where I think at least a hundred snaps

with the like eighteen point five. And when I watched him in practice and especially during the team periods that we were able to see, you see why this guy is so hard to complete a pass against one. He's pretty long and lengthy for the position too. He has great speed so that if he is out of position, the recovery is going to be there, especially waiting for that ball to arrive. But three, it's how he positions himself to narrow that window that catch radius for the receiver.

There was one plan. Again, I understand Davante Adams isn't here right now, but he's going up against Reggie Bagelton, the practice squad receiver from last season that's coming back. And I thought Bagelton had a nice little route going for himself in the past, which I believe was from Jordan's love was pretty much in the vicinity of where

it needed to be. But when a cornerback with his safety help over the top with Adrian Amos, when you see those things, those things married together, you know, in the way that they did on that specific play, even though it wasn't a big pass breakup, even though it wasn't an interception. It was the type of play that stands out because you can see how it translates to games. Setting. Yeah. Absolutely,

and we do have to qualify this. I mean, the Packers top five receivers essentially on the depth chart are not at the voluntary O T A s. But what we're seeing from Eric Stokes actually has me even more excited to see when he does line up across from al Lazard or Marquis Valdes Scaling or Davante Adams when

training camp rolls around. I go back to what I said, what I saw during the rookie mini camp where Stokes and defensive backs coach Jay Gray, We're having a conversation after certain play and Gray Gray was really harping on them about, okay, the receivers were the receivers were split this way, this, This was how they were lined up. Like he's only gonna run you know this route or this route. You need to be able to anticipate, you

know the one or the other. And you know it's to see to see a rookie in one of his first practices in the NFL already getting that from the defensive backs coach. That tells you, there are already so many other tools that are in place here. When it when right away Jerry Gray is trying to say, hey, this isn't just about technique. It's not just about the physical skills. We want to get you to anticipate the routes um and try to be a step ahead of

the offense as much as you can. That's the kind of stuff that most of the time young players will get from a Charles Woodson or Truman Williams as they get into the league for a year or two. And Eric Stokes is getting this, you know, push into him. I don't want to say pounded into him, but but pushed on him by Jerry Gray right from the get go, which I think tells you how much potential the Packers

feel this young man has. Yeah, And as you mentioned, Mike, when you Packers eventually do have their whole receiving corps back in training camp or mini camp, however, this shuffles out. The reason I want to see that is the same reason from back in two thousand and eight teen when JayR Alexander got to Green Baby. Because it's not about Oh, Eric Stokes is just gonna go out there and he's just gonna dominate. They won't be able to complete a pass on two Adams or Lazarre or nvs. It's not

about that. It's about the individual reps and seeing that level of competition, not only anticipating what the road is going to be, but how those guys pivot off those routes, especially in this type of offense. That's the that's the dimension that I can't wait to see now. And because Alexander isn't here right now, that's meant more reps in the bigger team defenses with Stokes, Josh Jackson has gotten

some of those. Channon Sullivan, this is a big opportunity, Mike, because you know you have Kevin King, you know you're gonna have Alexander, and on the back end it's gonna be Savage and Amos. That's four six, two thirds of the big secondary. When you look at the money down, it's those other two spots in understanding where guys are going to play in that position. That that's what's got to get shuffled out here. And I feel like Stokes has put his best foot forward here in his first

month in Green Bay. Yeah, I would agree. Sticking with the defensive side, of things. Another interesting development we saw yesterday you had written a story that was from kind of off of last week's O t A that we posted on Monday about, you know, the Packers inside linebacker room. There's obviously a lot of attention on Chris Barnes and Kamal Martin being the two rookies from last year who kind of made a name for themselves in different ways.

But then we saw at practice yesterday suddenly Chris Barnes is lined up with Ty Summers with the number one defense, and there were other pairings and other matchups with those inside linebackers as they went through the eleven on eleven reps. And it just as I said in the three Things video, it just seems to me like the defensive coaches are setting things up here for what's going to be a very wide open competition in training camp for those inside

linebacker spots. Now, I do think Chris Barnes is, you know, the leader on the course, so to speak to to steal a golf phrase right now, Um, I do think he's the number one guy right now. But when you talk about I mean, we don't know necessarily with Joe Barry's defense, I mean you know, how does how does he want to set up the pecking word or how

often does he want to play two inside linebackers? Does he want to train another guy to have a specific role in say the dime defense that maybe another guy wouldn't have. All those kinds of things. We have to

see how it plays out. And when you're talking about Barnes, Summers, Martin or In Burke's and then a rookie UH sixth round draft pick Isaiah mcduffee from Boston College, Um, I think we're going to see a lot of rotation, a lot of mixing, mixing and matching in terms of the pairings as as we get into training camp and the coaches are going to be studying that film and seeing and and really trying to see what they think what they think the best possibilities are in the scheme of

Joe Barry's Yeah, And that's the feeling out process of understanding what your personnel is, the player that you added to that group in McDuffie, and trying to figure out, Okay, who's going to be the best position to step into those roles when we go into training camp and and

potentially try to hold onto them. The one thing that stands out to me about last season is that, out of all my time on the beat, and there's a lot of different maschinations of the inside linebacker combinations, you and I have covered all the way from Clay Matthews moving inside to Nate Palmer and Jamari Lattimore and Brian and Brad Jones moving from outside linebacker to inside linebacker.

We've seen it all. But last year was unique in that I don't remember a scenario in which you saw the communication helmet passed as much as it did um throughout the course of last season. Now, eventually it did sort of settle on Chris Barnes, but then when Barnes got hurt, you had Tye Summers, who wasn't in any of the defensive packages, well he was the next mike.

Uh So, when I saw practice this week, you wonder how much of that is one making sure that Okay Summers is the mic behind Barnes at this time, but how much is it him also getting an opportunity to potentially be the will now that you don't have Christian Kirksey's gone in the nickel, and then competing with Kamal

Martin for that role in the base. Tye Summers arguably maybe has the most experience of anyone at the inside linebacker position when you factor in the fact that or In Burke's ended up spending time with the outside linebackers.

So this is a wide open competition. I thought it was really telling that when myself and many other reporters were asking, you know, both Barry and and Kurt Olivia Datti about Barnes and Martin, they were very They made it a point to talk about the entire group and that that is a position while you have the two rookies coming act from last season. That is a position where the Packers are looking to put their best two on the field and they're gonna cast a really wide

net to do it. Yeah, well, I want to shift gears to the offensive side of the ball. But first West Serious x M NFL Radio delivers hard hitting analysis and up to the minute NFL news that true football fanatics need. Seven three sixty five. Alright, Well, one of the players that we heard from in the post practice zoom calls with the media yesterday was second year running back A. J. Dylan, And I'll tell you what, he did not mince words at all and Yes, he talked

a lot about his quads and all of that. Um, I the whole quad father Quadzilla. It's it's entertaining. I get it. He stole your moniker. Yeah, that was a Spofford thing before A J. Dillon got drafted here. All right, that's a discussion for another day. But what he did say that that really caught my ear is at he did not hesitate whatsoever. He was asked about this pairing now of him with Aaron Jones, and he said, I think we can be the best running back duo in

the NFL. UM Now, obviously you'd like to hear that he this is a workhorse guy from Boston College who carried the ball a ton who has already had to adjust to, you know, not being the guy, right. He hasn't. He hasn't been the feature guy. He's not going to be the number one guy in this offense with when Aaron Jones is healthy and available and on the field. But we've talked about it before, the possibilities, the possibilities here with your two eight pound Aaron Jones and your

two seven pound A J. Dillon. It's really intriguing just where this might go in with the Packers ground game. Here's what I love about A G. Dillon, And first off, I gotta mention this, Mike, because I always I think that hodds take bar when we do final thoughts, Tyler guy skip super gets it in the lower third. This is kind of hodds take. You talked about being the featured guy, not being the workhorse back. I'm gonna tell you something right now, to every young running back out there,

it's not the worst thing in the world. It worked out well for Aaron Jones, and hey, I know everybody wants to come in and be a year one starting running back, but i'nna be honest with you. He ain't making the big money yet. I mean, I I feel like there's actually a lot to be said for not introducing a running back into the league and just grinding them all the way down to the gas take is empty. So that's a topic for another day. I'm letna throw

this back at you. Though I've covered the team full time since two thousand twelve, a little bit in two thousand eleven we're trying to figure some stuff out with

the Green Bay Press because that staff. But since two thousand twelve, at least during my time I can say unequivocally I think A. J. Dillon is the most confident running back that has walked in the door in terms of being a draft pick to just putting his foot down and saying, yeah, I feel the way I speak, the words I say, and the way the confidence I have in my ability, it jumps off the page to me. In terms of just what his or I'm trying to think if there's even another guy that even comes close

to him during the last twenty five years. Yeah, I mean I think I will I will say this, you will say that. But in terms of his extroverted the way he speaks, I've not seen anything like it. Yeah, I mean, I think from from a personality standpoint, obviously Eddie Lacey was was very different, but I think, uh he he was very different externally, but I think internally, Eddie Lacy knew that he belonged in the end from

you know, from from the get go. So I will say that, And those are the two guys that the Packers have invested second round draft picks, you know, in the running back position. But um, you know a lot of the fans are asking questions with with regard to Dylan, what about the past catching abilities and and and whatnot, because it's not something that was part of Boston College's offense.

And you know, he had twenty one pass receptions out of the back backfield the last two years at Boston College didn't have any actually the first year that he was the feature back there. So it's not that he doesn't have the ability to do it, it's that he was never really asked to do it. He knows. I mean, all you have to do is look at the stats. The last two years, Aaron Jones has caught ninety six passes. Jamal Williams. Jamal Williams caught seventy the last two years

as the number two guy behind Aaron Jones. So A J. Dillon knows that that's that's the one big part of his game that he has to work on in order to try to maximize his opportunities to to get on the field. And we've seen it already in the O T a s now when it's not necessarily full speed, when it's not uh, you know, padded up and all that kind of stuff. You know, you you take everything

with a grain of salt, so to speak. But the more of those reps that he can get now in the springtime, then when it is eleven on eleven in August in full pads and he's got to run, he's running that wheel. We're out out of the back field, and that ball is going to be coming his way with whether it be Chris Barnes or Adrian Amos or whoever might be, you know, closing in and try to break that pass up. The more reps that he gets right now in that situation, the more comfortable he's going

to feel come come this summer. And I think that's gonna be a big thing to watch through August here in training camp with this young man. And this is a big time for the running backs in that regard. I remember, even you go back to two thousand and fifteen, maybe I mean Mike McCarthy kind of even scaled back the amount of reps that they took handing off the ball to put more of an emphasis on guys catching

the ball, running backs catching the ball. Some would say maybe they skewed a little too far in that direction, but that showed you the emphasis that was there, and

just kind of how the league was evolving. To tie back to my previous point about Dylan, as you said, there's a number of different ways you can go about having confidence, but the swagger that Dylan carries himself with, there's certain expectations that kind of come with that, and the young man doesn't shy away from those he enjoys have that spotlight on him, and I feel like that's a really important characteristic and the running back profession in

that game, because I'll tell you what, Mike, there's a lot of stuff they still need to work on. The pass catching is one of them. Run blocking all right now, I should say pass blocking, We're gonna have to learn more about that. Can you be a third down and reliable third down back? But from a structural standpoint building a running back up from the base. I mean, the

guy checks all the boxes. And I think when you hear him say things like I feel like myself and Aaron Jones can be the best running back due on the league, that's a really high goal to set for yourself. But you can tell with the way he says it. One it's not brigadoso or anything like that. The brigadocio. It's not like he's trying to just say, well, I'm the best. He's saying that's where we think we can

take this thing. And that's why that message really resonated with me when he said it, because it wasn't just that, oh, yeah, sure I'm the best. It's no, I mean this is I saw what I could do in a really small sampling last year, and I feel like I can do

it again. Yeah. He talked about, yes, that he understands the whole thunder and lightning, you know type of thing with with him and Aaron Jones, but he said, you know, if Aaron Jones is the lightning, this is this is a pretty tough dude who can grind out some yards

when you need to. And he says, if I'm the if I'm the thunder, I got some speed and I can run away from guys, which we saw a third yard touchdown run when he had that that carry, you know, hundred yard to touchdown game against Tennessee, you know, which

helped the Packers clinch the division titles. So you know you're talking about um as you said, small sample size, but but we've seen you know, Aaron, Aaron Jones is not just a scat back and he's proven that and A J. Dillon is out to prove he's not just a power back that he's got more to his game, and I think he's going to get that opportunity this year and his when he hits that that fourth gear,

I mean, it's it's getting out of the way. I mean, that was my takeaway from the Tennessee game because even you and I'm Mike, we didn't see a lot of a j Allen. I mean, when you had to get Aaron Jones and Jamal Williams ready for the season during a shortened training camp, that's where all those reps went. He saw Dylan and some of the young guys periods. He only had a handful of reps before the COVID deal, and then he came back, and that's what stood out

to me. When he breaks through that first front of the defense and he's able to hit that next gear, good luck stopping the tour and forty seven pound body because it's not coming down easily. Yeah, no question about it. Yeah.

And missing a month and a half or whatever it was like he did with the COVID situation last year was unfortunate for um, for him as a rookie, but fortunately for the Packers they didn't necessarily need him because you had Aaron Jones and Jamal Williams, and then when they did need him in the big late December game against Tennessee, he came through with the young man delivered.

So UM. One other topic to get to with regard to the offense before we go, we also did hear from tight end Robert Tonyan, and uh, it was interesting.

We didn't just hear from him, but we also heard from head coach Matt Lafleur, who made, you know, no bones about the fact that he feels, you know, even with Tony in coming off of what I believe was almost six hundred yards receiving double digit touchdowns, um, you know, tying for the league lead and touchdown receptions among tight ends with All Pro Travis Kelsey, he thinks, even with as deep as this tight end group is with the Packers, that there's more out there for Robert Touny in that

there could be some more opportunities to feature him in this offense even more. I found that to be a very interesting comment. When you've got Marcedes Lewis, you've got Josiah Deguire coming back from the knee injury. Um, you know, j Sternberger has had some injury issues. His first couple of years was still trying to see where that goes. And then Dominique Daphne, he was a guy who stepped in late last season, caught a big touchdown passing in

Chicago in Week seventeen and a big victory. So there's a lot here going on at the tight end position for the Packers. But Robert Tonyan is going to be a featured player in this offense. Yeah, it really stands out to me because I remember for a number of years I'd sit at the locker with Robert and I basically would just keep asking the same question over and over again. Do you feel like a tight end? Do you feel like a tight end? And and we're we're

worth so far past that now. But now the era that we're entering is this guy could be a Travis Kelsey and George Kittle, you know type impact player in this offense. And to be honest with you, Mike, I know everybody will automatically say, well, that's what they had

with with Jamichael Finley. They did, and they didn't because one the Packers were so deep with their receiving corps at that time, Finley almost kind of fit in with that room, there was a time where he was taken off the weight to almost be more like a receiver as far as an inline tight end, Robert Tonyan has been the perfect project for Green Bay and I made a lot about it. I made a lot of it for a number of years, about him working with Jimmy

Graham for two years. However things went in Green Bay. Fans have their personal feelings on it. Jimmy Graham's one of the best pass catching tight ends that come through this league in the last twenty years. And he's still playing Mercedes Lewis, Who's gonna make a bona fide run here at being the longest tenured NFL tight end ever potentially if he can do this for two or three more seasons. One of the most block best blockers that has kept him in this league here the last ten years,

having those two guys guiding him. I don't think that can be overstated just how valuable that was. And and now Tongyan is the guy. And for the Packers to be able to find a young man like that that was a former college quarterback that then transition to receiver that went to Detroit and had a you know, tough experience there was out of the league completely and then he kind of works his way up from the practice

squad to where he is today. I mean, that's this is an emotional thing now for Green Bay, that that guy isn't just a great story anymore. And Robert tongue in very well could be one of the biggest playmakers in the NFC. Yeah, as you called him an insider inbox, the uncrowned Pro Bowler. You talk, you talk about a guy getting that debate for a Pro Bowl on I

mean and and his his his teammates. Remember late last season, his teammates were, you know, now we're we weren't in the locker room obviously we're only talking to players over zoom, but they were that that was maybe as flabbergasted as I had ever heard multiple teammates talk about a guy maybe since you know, the one year that t J. Lang like didn't get I remember when he did before he got his first Pro Bowl honor, but least subjective

like it's it's his teammates were. His teammates were absolutely blown away that he got that he got as overlooked as he was for that honor. So now I mean get it. You know, the Pro Bowl is not the not the be all end all, and do his credit. You know, Tonyan doesn't look at it that way either, But he's got a lot of guys in that locker room that are behind him and are they're excited about what he accomplished and where he's potentially going with his career. Well,

and God bless Evan Ingram. If Evan's watching this out there somewhere, you helped me win a fantasy football title like five years ago. The guy does have some name notoriety there. Obviously was a credential player coming into the league. But I think Kevin Ingram would tell you too, if we're all being this with each other, when you factor and not just the disparity and in touchdowns between the two, but the fact that Ingram had a lot of drops last year and then Tony in by every metric that

I can find, didn't have any. He caught every caught every pass that he was asked to catch. It is what it is. I mean, thankfully Robert was in his going into his restricted free agent here. It'sund like he had any like Pro Bowl five bonuses built into his

contract that he got robbed of. But Holy smokes. Yeah. Well, Um, also before we go, it's pretty cool, I would have to say, because we don't always get to see this, but both of the O t A practices we've seen, um the guys rehabbing off the side, and in this practice yesterday, Josiah Deguara David Bakti both coming back from a c L injuries. Um, we're working off to the

side now. Obviously Daguire's injury was was early in the season, I believe week four or five if I'm if I'm not mistaken, Yeah, but I'll tell you, I'll tell you what seeing what David Baktier looks like right now, just as he's doing like these rehab drills. Now, I'm I'm no medical expert, and I know everything with with a c L, timelines and all that, things continue to change. But but man, I mean that was New Year's Eve he had that injury, and obviously the surgery shortly thereafter.

But holy cow, I mean we're in we're in early June here, and it doesn't it looks like he is much much more than five months removed from from surgery. It blows me away, honestly. I tweeted it, and people think I'm being funny, but I was adcent serious why I tweeted it. Everybody leaves goes out. The Hudson Center of cameras stopped flickering because, okay, we all got the shot of all the players coming out. Send it out.

It's the same video we've seen other times, but be that as it may, and then very quietly, out sprints David baktr once all the cameras are down. And when I say sprints, I mean legitimately sprints. I said, he ran like a stallion out out of the field. He did. And to see him do the work that he was

doing on one foot and putting weight on that knee. Again, we we saw some of the videos, and you know, the work that David puts into this thing and the fact that he takes a lot of pride and being the best left tackle in the game right now and a guy that's on a Hall of Fame trajector, you know, that matters to him. But it also matters him to

be out there for his team. So again, in the same thing with Daguia, to see Joside Daguire at a position where there's a little bit more violent movement on the knee to be able to wake his way back, and he was off to such a great start, Mike. I mean that game against Minnesota again, you're gonna look at it in a box score and you're gonna say

he had one catch for twelve yards. But if you watch the way Green Bay used him against the Vikings and the opener, how dynamic he was, the ways that they could use him, how well he fit into that hybrid h back type role, that was a huge loss. And then for him to have the shin injury and then obviously end up tearing the a c L at the setback. There two big players. I think. You know, they're not gonna be the ones that are gonna get the most clicks, They're not going to get all the

headlines everything like that. But to have them back in the fold and and working and making progress in their rehabs, to see that June two, holy crap. Yeah, it's been it's it's it's been. It's it's been interesting. And when we get to training camp, we the Packers are gonna be the Packers have always been conservative with these guys

coming back from major injuries. So I don't want anybody to take our conversation here is saying, well, first day of training camp, you know, first day in pads, David Bactiero and Josiah to Gard are going to be out there full speed. We're not making any promises in that regard, but what we are seeing um in terms of getting getting a look at their rehab at at this stage, it's very promising for what holds for these players when you initially get an injury like that, especially David's uh

late in the season. You know, heading into week seventeen, you wonder what really is in store for one. And I would just say things are looking pretty promised. And you and I were not making proclamations about week one. But the point I always try to make. I made the same point with Brian Balaga years ago when he was coming off his second a c L. You are not on the field doing They're not on the field

doing what they were doing in early June. If everything to that point hasn't gone well, and that's the point that you have to focus on. If you go on you don't see those guys during the off season program, that's when the antenna starts to go up a little bit, so to see them out there's obviously a good sign. Yeah, definitely. Well with that, we will call it a wrap on this edition of Packers Unscripted. Sure to follow all of our coverage of the team here through O t a

S Mini camp next week. The off season program has a couple of weeks to go. Will be all over it for you on Packers dot com for Wes, I am Mike. Thank you for tuning in, everybody, See you next time.