#534 Packers Unscripted: Sideline views

any easier to digest. It doesn't. It doesn't. Well, late last week we heard from the Packers three coordinators, defense coordinator Mike Petton, offensive coordinator Nathaniel Hackett, and Special teams coordinator Sean Meninga. They did a media session over zoom All a chance to for lots of the Green Day med Core to ask some questions, get the updates on where they're at with things with the verse you, off season program and all of that. Um, I'll just throw

it out to us. I'll leave it wide open for you. What was your biggest takeaway, the strongest impression that anyone made as far as what they said to you, Well, it was Mike Petton and I think everybody wanted to hear what pet had to say, not only coming off of last year in the NFC Championship game against the San Francisco forty Niners, but just in general with where he wants this defense to go now in year three and the challenges that he's going to face with this

truncated offseason, starting off with that NFC title game. First and foremost, this is the big thing I think I was my takeaway from this. We you cannot just plan for one specific game, one specific opponent. It has to be a full vision of what you want your defense to be. And so when people look at the two thousand uh you know it's nineteen NFC championship game in San Francisco, Yeah, everyone's gonna look at Well, it didn't go so hot for the Packers there the run, defense

and hold up there were challenges that they faced. But at the end of the day, as much as that is the truth, you can't focus on that one performance when you build for two thousand twenty because the forty Niners are not going to be the same, the NFL is not going to be the same. And it goes back to something that I wrote about this week in

an Insider inbox. You remember the two thousand thirteen, two thousand twelve thirteen playoff game against the forty Niners when Colin Kaepernick ran for a ton of yards against Green Bay Will it came back in the opener in thirteen later that year and he threw for four yards. So there's always gonna be a check in a balance, and I think that's the one thing that Petton is very

much in tune with. And he also said when you look at this run defense, yeah, there are structural changes they need to make, but he still feels like this personnel and especially now with Christian Kurtsey coming in an inside linebacker, that's gonna give the Green Bay Packers what they need in order to to take that next step. Yeah, the biggest thing I took away from Petton's comments is, you know, he's not going to change what the defense is. He's it's not going to be some wholesale change just

based on one performance. I think he obviously said they were lacking in the execution, the effort, the energy, all of those kinds of things. It wasn't their day and it was their worst performance at the worst possible time. But Mike Patton is not going to change who the Packers are on defense. He's not suddenly going to make the run defense a bunch of two gapping laterally moving guys up front. He still wants to attack, he still

wants to control the line of scrimmage. And I think as much as it's on the players that obviously things went wrong out there on the field, I think he's taking his share of the blame himself in terms of not emphasizing the run defense principles that got away from them at the end of the season there in in the championship games. So he said, hey, this is a performance. Everybody has to own it. We can't run from it.

And he's talking about coaches and players and everybody. But as you said, this is not about completely changing the defensive identity and changing who you are based on one performance. It's about emphasizing things getting buttoned down in certain areas that obviously things went wrong at the wrong time. But Mike Petton believes in his scheme, he believes in this defense and uh and with the players he has coming back, and obviously you're swapping out Kirksey for Martinez in the

middle of it all. But with all the players that are coming back, the experience that everybody has gained in the system, he has confidence that this defense is going to get back to where it was when it was peaking in twenty nineteen. Well, he mentioned that too. I mean, this defense and this team won fourteen games last year. So you don't just throw out the baby with the bathwater and just restart. I mean, you got to build off of what you did well and improve on where

you fell short. That's where his main objective is going to be, and he laid out some of the preliminary plans for that already. He said, you know, you can't have Kenny Clark playing of the defensive snaps. You have to pick your poison with him. Do you want him in there on third downs rushing and going after the passer, or do you want him in there every first and

second down trying to defend the run. When you got a guy like Clark that can do so many things, well, it's appetizing to just want to put him on the field as much as possible. The Packers can't do that. They need to be more multiple. He talked about a guy like Kingsley Kiki their fifth round pick last year out of Texas Tech Texas A and M excuse me. He feels like that's a guy that can get into that rotation and take some snaps off of Clark and Lowery.

There is a law of diminishing returns with defensive linemen in this league. Clark has still played above that, but you need to be able to give those guys rest. You have a good transition and a in a rotation going right now at outside linebacker, he mentioned, despite the fact that they did lose Kyler Facral, he feels like this is still the best and the most deep, you know, core of outside edge rushers that he's ever had as

a defensive coordinator in the NFL. He believes Rashawn Gary needs to take another step and they want to give him the opportunities to do so. And then certainly there's a lot to figure out what the secondary yet, who's gonna be holding down Nickel corner. But overall, with the additions that they made last year and some of the improvements that now they want to make this year, that's why Patton really does believe that where they stand right

now can be a championship caliber defense. Yeah, and I agree with you, I think I think he really wants to focus on the fact that he doesn't want Kenny Clark, Zadarius Smith, and Preston Smith to all be playing eight five roughly percentage of the snaps on defense. He wants to share the workload a little bit more. It's a long season. Every game itself is a long game, but it's a long season, especially if you're trying to make

a playoff run. So all that factors into the plans for and trying to see some young players rise up, take on more responsibility, take on larger roles, to lessen the burden on some of those veteran guys who really carried the load last year. Um Moving on offensive coordinator Nathaniel Hackett, I think the thing that struck me the most, and he's always very entertaining when he talks. He's got, you know, I guess, a bubbly personality for for lack of a better phrase, off the top of my head,

but he's very entertaining when he talks. And I thought it was interesting the question that he answered about the Packers being in year two of the offensive system, but you know, having to deal with this virtual offseason and you could almost see the look on his face as though like, oh my gosh, I can't imagine if we were trying to do this in year one, you know, which there are some teams in the league who were doing that, Mike McCarthy with the Cowboys, other head coaches

who have gotten new jobs and they've had to work on trying to implement their systems without getting their guys on the field. But coach Hackett is very very glad that that the Packers did what they did in year one and now they're dealing with the challenges in year

two as opposed to having to go through that last year. Yeah, and Nathaniel mentioned, I mean he has some friends in the teaching profession and he actually reached out to them to get some pointers on how they were going to be able to do these exercises over zoom overrecorded meetings, because he said, you know, so many times you just get up and you give your speech. For better or for worse, it lives in it, you know, dies in

that moment. You just move on with your life. Well, in this particular case, in those some of those prerecorded team meetings that they have, you have to sit there and look at yourself and you gotta judge yourself and you gotta learn from those experiences. And he said, you know, they've talked about trying to find ways to make it more interactive and fun for the players. Based on what Aaron Rodgers said last week, it sounds like they've been

largely successful with that. Certainly, we're gonna get a chance here soon enough to talk to some of these other players to get their perception of it. But the thing I loved about Hackett's response, in addition to the realization that if you're a rookie coach right now, man, you're really up the creek trying to institute your scheme in this environment, but even more than that, it's just his overall enthusiasm for this offense and where things could go

in year two. I think they laid a blueprint last year. They didn't check every box. Matt Lafleur has been open and honest about that, but they did lay a blueprint of where they believe this group can go. Now they have a very deep and very versatile backfield that they've built.

You have a guy like Josiah Degure coming in who knows what he could potentially be in this offense, and then, by the way, Davante Adams is still the receiver, David Baxtr is still your left tackle, Corey Linsley's still your center, and obviously Aaron Jones and Jamal Williams are still in

that equation as well. There are a lot of returning pieces for this Packers offense in addition to QB one, So all those things put together, you can just kind of get a sense for what he feels like this upside is going to be for this group, trying to build upon some of those principles that they put in place, and also looking probably a little bit more like the

offense that Matt Lafleur and vision is now moving into. Yeah, and I almost wondered, just because of the limitations of the off season and the fact that everything has been been virtual to this point, I'm not sure how much they're going to be able to implement in terms of their changes and the things they want to tweak and adjust and everything along the way right now. But I think we might see the Packers offense in the season, when the actual season gets going, you might see more

of those adjustments along the way. It may be just a more a matter of of spreading them out, so to speak, in the calendar in terms of some of the changes and where you want to go with some things. Just my own speculation there, just because I can't imagine you can you can try to implement all of the changes you want to make to the playbook in a year two of a system when you're not getting the players out there to at least, do you know, get him together to do walk through eleven on eleven even

half three quarter speed? Um, you know when that when that's not an option. So but definitely a lot of optimism for where this offense can go in year two. Special teams coordinator Seawan Meninga I wanted to uh touch

on his comments as well. I think the thing that stood out to me about him it is almost the relief that he has that he's going into his second season as the special teams coordinator knowing who his return man is because the Packers did not have a return game really on punts or kickoffs until Tyler Irvin showed up in December. He became a free agent at the

end of the season, the Packers re signed him. He is back, and I think coach Meninge is very, very happy that he's heading into knowing who his return man is on punts and kickoffs well, and just the overall stability right stuff. I mean, you got Mason Crosby back. That would have been a huge hole if the Packers were unable to resign him, especially with how excuse me this. You look and see how this league has been with the kicking position here the last two seasons. When you

have a good one, you want to keep them. But Crosby has been in this position before. They drafted J. K. Scott, you drafted Hunter Bradley. You expect those specialists to be able to be the players that you want them to be. And then you got a guy like Tyler Irvin who basically came out of nowhere last year to rescue those return units. And Matt Lafleour Brian Goodcuins. They both discussed it even before free agency began. The Packers wanted to find a way to bring back Irvin and they did.

And now you've got a dynamic playmaker that could potentially help you in that backfield situation, but more than anything, gives you a two way kickoff and punt return. I think there's something to be said for that. Mike. In this league, it's becoming increasingly specialized. You can be a kickoff returner, you can be a punt turner, but you don't always play both of those units. Mica Hyde was a phenomenal punt returner, wasn't really used that much on

kickoff returns. Jeff Janice solid kickoff returner, didn't really handle punts that often. To have a guy like Irvin that can do both and be explosive in both different facets of a play that is much different on different sides of the spectrum, that's a real fine for the green

Bay Packers. And just to be able to have that confidence, you've got to kind of remember what life was like for Green Bay in October and just the uncertainty every time fourth down came and and not really knowing, Okay, one are you gonna be able to get any yards? And two are you gonna be able to maintain possession of the ball? Tyler? Irvin alleviated all of that. So

to to get him back in the fold. It's not gonna be nationally a huge thing that's going to register on everybody's radar, but especially with an offseason where you're not gonna be able to learn a lot about what these returns, you know, these receivers and running backs can

do a returners. There's a real benefit to having a guy like Tyler Irvan back in the fold and giving Sean Menninger after last year having so many question smarks, getting to know his special teams unit for the first time, a little bit of a security blanket there, and knowing what Irvin is capable of. Yeah, and just to recap

the statistics quickly. When Irvin stepped in as the Packers pump returner in December for the season, the Packers had negative pump return yards, and then over the final month he averaged nine point six yards per pump return on

eleven returns, which was really really impressive. And then on kickoffs he had a forty five yard kickoff return in one game, which was the Packers longest kickoff return since Jeff Janis had a forty seven yard in twenty So it's not overstating it to say that he really sparked and saved the Packers return units in twenty nineteen. All Right, we's a couple of other things we want to touch on today. Story that uh I posted yesterday on the website.

Every once in a while, you and I get an opportunity to tell the story of an undrafted rookie that the packers bring in and sort of tell his long shots story of how he, you know, is taking this this tough road to try to land a roster spot with the Green Bay Packers and Mark Antoine decoy. Hopefully I'm saying that correctly. I've had to spel it while I've been writing it. But um, he is a twenty five year old Canadian rookie. And I tell you, Wes, you and I have both been doing this for a

long time. Every once in a while, you dig into a story a little bit, you get to you, you find out about somebody, you get a chance to talk to him. And this is a story that just that just captivates me from so many angles because it's such an improbable, unlikely story that and I don't even know if I can recap it all here. But three of his first four years out of high school he didn't play any football. Then when he does return to the game of football, he ends up becoming one of the

more decorated players in the Canadian college game. He gets a very prestigious for the on the Canadian side, gets a prestigious invite to a college All Star game in the US. They only hand out two of those two Canadian players. He goes to the East West Shrine game. He's practicing all week with a cast on a broken forearm because he had broken his forearm in the Canadian National Championship game playing for his his Montreal University of Montreal team, So he practices all week with a cast

on his broken forearm. They don't let him play in the actual East West Shrine game. He goes back to Canada and ends up having a pro day to try to get some more attention from NFL scouts. He's only the second player in the history of his school to even have a pro day. He actually he has like not coronavirus, but some sort of bronchitis or respiratory flu type of thing, and he runs a four three five

on his pro day. So suddenly this generates, you know, a certain amount of entryist and the Packers end up landing him as an undrafted rookie um following the draft, and now he's part of the virtual offseason program. He's in Canada. He's still working out, communicating by a computer, just like you and I are doing with his teammates and coaches and all that. And this guy is gonna try twenty five year old rookie from Canada is gonna try to make the Green Bay Packers roster. I just

think it's fascinating. Yeah, it was a phenomenal story that he has personally. I thought you told it exceptionally well in the story, the written story of the thing. I love about it too, And I told you about this the moment I read the story. His line about on the underdog of underdogs, it really spoke to me because we do tell a lot of these stories. His reminded me the most of Taysom Hill, if I can use

that expression. You know, out of these last five years that we've been doing these, I've been doing these with you. You know, Hill was a twenty seven year old rookie or whatever that number was where he has mission and then he got hurt and he kept, you know, having to get delayed, and it was just that type of adversity in the response to it. This is a young

man's game him, no question about it. You there's a reason why we talked about Jonathan Garvin the way we do at twenty, and we talked about, you know, Kenny Clark the way we did when he entered the league at twenty. But every once in a while, you get these guys that are in their mid twenties or and wasn't Taysom Hill's case, late twenties that become real interesting NFL prospects, and Decoy fits all of those measurables. It's not that he just was a tall defensive back six

ft three pounds. No, it's that he ran a three four three five forty times. It's that, you know, he had ball hawking abilities that he showed at that level. And I've said this once, I've said it a thousand times. It's something I believe. Elliott Wolfe was the one that said this. I know a lot of gms and personnel executives go towards this. If you're competing at a level of football that is not you know, the SEC or the Big ten. What what scouts want to see from

you is dominance. They want to see, you know, spouts of greatness. It's the reason why they went and signed Reggie Beagleton. Now that the receiver out of Calgary from the CFL, and now he'sn't gonna be in camp with them in decoite fits that mantra. He's a guy that just stood out amongst his peers. And then, by the way, it's not like he was supposed to be this absolute stud. He went back to football and he became a really good football player. Now we're gonna have to see exactly

how this summer plays out. I don't know what the travel restrictions, if if players do come in where he's gonna be at with Canada. But all that being said, you can tell the Packers really like this guy, and this is someone that they're not just looking at as a camp body. This is a guy that really they

could develop. He might take time, he might be raw, but man, when you see the measurables and you see his production and how he did it in the circumstances under which he performed, my goodness, Mike, he has everything you look for in a really good undrafted free agent PROCECT. Yeah. Yeah, And it's worth pointing out a couple of other numbers. To one, he was actually chosen overall in the CFL draft. So this is a this is a guy that that

the Canadian Football League certainly had their eye on. He's a very high pick in that draft, but he's focusing on trying to make it in the NFL first and foremost. And the other thing is, over his last three seasons at the University of Montreal West, he intercepted, including playoff games, he intercepted twelve passes. He took half of those to the house six pick six is out of his twelve interceptions.

I mean, statistically, it's it's it's almost mind boggling. But whichever part of the story of his you want to latch onto, there are a lot of different intriguing points of entry, so to speak to this story, I just think it's a it's a really fun one. You want to check outut on the website that I'm sure there are some more details in there that that I wasn't able to recap it, and please do check it out. And one other thing I want to mention too, that's

gonna work towards Mark Antoine's benefit here. Uh, you wrote in there one of my good friends, and I don't often say that about pro athletes, but a guy I considered a good friend, Andy Milumba, he actually reached out to him. Milomba from that area in Montreal where his family came from and immigrated to and got a little bit of a field for Green Bay and what to expect in the NFL. The one advantage that Mark Antoine has though that Andy didn't. Andy had to learn English.

He went to Eastern Michigan having to learn the English language. De Quoi has done that. It's maybe not perfect, but as a bilingual speaker, I mean that's gonna make his development process so much easier to being able to have that level of communication. Yeah, he is a native French speaker, but his English, his English is quite good. And I having the phone interview, phone conversation with him, you know,

was certainly wasn't a struggle in that respect. And uh yeah, I think in that in that area he'll he'll get along just fine. Okay, Wes one more thing before we go. It sounds like and it could be as soon as

Today's not long after uh this episode. Post to our website that the NFL owners are potentially voting on a radical change to the on side kick, providing potentially providing teams an option of a fourth and fifteen play from their own twenty five yard line in lieu of an on site kick to try to keep possession of the ball after a score. UM, I think you and I are both in agreement on this. I don't like it. I don't think you like it either. UM, we'll see

what happens. I'm not overly confident that it's going to pass, but it sounds like it is coming up for vote, and we'll see what happens. Well, and we'll see what happens on Thursday with this, um when the league ownership in their virtual meeting is going to take a real look at this. It did get shot down last year. It does sound like it has more momentum now though. So there are two things that are playing play with here.

Because we'll discuss if this gets enacted next week. I'm sure we'll be doing a portion of our show actually debating the merits of this. But what ultimately is that play is the rule changes that they made with the kickoffs two years ago, with having even sides not allowing teams to overload, it wiped out really the traditional on side kick attempt. You saw percentages go from about success rate in two thousand seventeen to only about seven and

a half percent if you take out what Atlantic kicker. Um, I believe it's you, you Coup, I forget his name. I'm sorry, but thanks. I tried though, right, I actually went for it. But that trick shot kicker that Atlanta had that made three in one game last year. If you take out that, it was only eight of a

hundred and six attempts the last two years. It's just become so difficult the league ownership and also the competition committee of trying to find ways to make that play, obviously staying with the idea of player safety, but also make it more exciting. I have pretty strong feelings on this. My personal thought is it's a special teams play. I don't know why you want to pull the offense and defense into it. Special teams has had so much ripped from it over the last ten years. Give it something.

Let's innovate on that play. But that being said, what would happen is a fourth and fifteen play from the team's own twenty five yard line, an option that they could enact twice a game. Doesn't matter if they're trailing or not. But obviously, if you don't get the first down the opposing team picks up at the spot of the ball, it percentages wise, the competition can he says, it's comparable. I still wonder if they're factoring in the

chances and probability of a penalty on that play. There's a lot bigger chance for a penalty on an offensive and defensive possession then there is on an on side kick. A lot of times end up swallowing the whistle on an on site kick unless it's an off side. So we're going to see what the Competition Committee has to say about this, but it's a very interesting measure. The league is taking a hard look at trying to create maybe a little bit more of an opening on that

play for teams to potentially get the ball back late. Yeah. I think this is going to be interesting to see what happens. And we're running up against the clock here today. But as you said, if this does become a new rule in the NFL, we can certainly continue. Yeah, we'll continue the discussion another time, but for now we will call it a wrap in this edition of Packers Unscripted. Be sure to follow all of our coverage of the team here through the virtual offseason program on Packers dot com.

Thank you for tuning in. Tuning in, everybody for West I Am Mike, take care, We'll see you next time. H m hm