#524 Packers Unscripted: Wrapping up the roster

when I'm out in public, I've actually been wearing a mask. Now. The beard was getting really itchy and it was annoying to me, so I shaved that off. My favorite story, though, is the fact that my mother, who has been watching Unscripted and been checking some of the stuff out, not

a huge fan of the beard. I actually had to go over to my parents house to pick up my Scottie Pippen jersey because I wanted to wear it for the last dance on Sunday and I had shaved uh and she was through the moon about it and she loved it. She was she so happy. So here I am clean shaven again. Will mix it up you know, as long as I'm not able to go to a barber, I'm not able to go out to the grocery store as much as I want to and keep forgetting to buy,

you know, actual shaving cream. I'm sure it'll come back at some point and maha it will be disappointed, all right. Well, as long as we can keep Mahad happy in the interim, we'll we'll go for that. Well, we're going to continue our draft preview series as we review the positions on the Packers roster heading into the draft, which is only a few days away now. And today we're going to

tackle the linebackers and defensive backs and west. When you look at the Packers linebacking corps, I said this in the written piece that has sort of been the companion written pieces to our series here on Packer's unscripted Position by position, it's sort of been a two year overhaul of the linebacking corps for the Packs. Last year it was all about the outside linebackers. He signs the Darius Smith and Preston Smith your draft Shawn Gary in the

first round. That position group gets an entire overhaul. Now it's the inside linebackers. Blake Martinez has gone, Christian Kirksey has been signed, and there's a lot of talk about just how high the Packers might select another inside linebacker to potentially pair with Kirksey to have a duo there in the middle of the defense. Yeah, and that is

gonna be there. They're two biggest questions I have going in this draft is how the Packers are going to approach inside linebacker because I think there are a lot of dominoes that fall into effect with Okay, if they want to play nickel defense, true traditional nickel defense more in two thousand twenty, you probably need another inside linebacker there to compete with Orange Burks for that job and

also to have some more depth at that position. So seeing exactly where they fit and where they stand on hybrid linebacker or traditional inside linebacker, that's a question still has to be answered because Ibraheim Campbell is still on the market as well. Certainly you have you know, Raven Green there if they want to go of that that route. So that's number one. Number two is what type of inside linebacker would you be looking for? And this draft

has all of them. When you look at Zack Bond, the toy linebacker as one team called him at the NFL combine. He's a guy that I think fits that mold of that Clay Matthews type a little bit where you can rush him, you can have him play coverage. He presents every potential avenue to really exercise his versatility. If you want to be more creative in that spot, then you have your tried and true guys like Kenneth Murray, like Patrick Queen out of l s U. Both of

those guys that have been kind of shifted. You know, they aren't the biggest inside linebackers, but they're quick. I feel like you go back Mike nine years ago two when a j Hawks started to take some weight off of his body because he knew he needed to get faster at that spot. He knew he needed to be able to be more in the coverage side of things. And we've never really moved back towards that of the two pound inside linebacker as far as if you want

to play three downs, you've gotta be lights. So all three of those young guys are very enticing. But the nice thing is for Brian goudakunts what he did by getting Christian Kirksey. The Packers do have a guy there who's still relatively young and has played that position, has been the communicator in that defense before, so that you don't necessarily have to go first round if they decided to hold off on that. Yeah, And I think it's interesting where the Packers are depth wise at that position

you mentioned or in. Burke's a third round pick a couple of years ago. He's now entering his third season, and each of his first two years in training camp, you're seeing some promise, You're seeing him potentially cart try to carve out a role for himself, and then he gets injured. He's had training camp injuries each of his first two years that have really set him back. And

you know how it goes west. If you start missing preseason games, then once you get into the regular season the pads are only on once a week in practice, it's really hard to regain that lost time. And I think that is something that has affected Burke's his first two years. So he'll be looking to stay healthy and and make his run at a role on this defense. And then you have Curtis Bolton, undrafted a year ago

out of Oklahoma. He was the guy who was looking like he would be the starter next to Blake Martinez after or and Burke's got hurt in training camp last year. But then Bolton got hurt, he blew out his knee, his he was gone for the season. He's another guy who is on the roster coming back obviously, you know, we'll see what happens with coming back from a significant injury like that. So the Packers have some options there,

but yet they're completely unproven. And as you said, when you look at these guys at the top of the draft, at the position now, Isaiah Simmons is from Clemson. He's the guy. He's a top five pick, all right, And all these Packer fans who are wondering what would it take for the Packers to trade up from thirty, Well, you'd have to trade the entire draft. You'd have to pull a Mike Ditker Ricky Williams draft in order to get Isaiah Simmons. So just throw that out there. That's

not gonna happen. But you mentioned Kenneth Murray, Patrick Queen or your traditional what are now becoming the tradition three down inside linebackers. I don't know if either one of those guys will be available for the Packers at thirty, but we'll see. And then Zach Bonn. Bonn is so interesting because he was essentially a pass rusher and outside

linebacker at Wisconsin, extremely productive. But then a lot of NFL scouts talking about, Hey, this guy can play off the ball, he can play in coverage, he could play an inside linebacker role. But how I have a pick do you you use on a guy who would essentially be making a significant transition like that. I think that's a question for teams to try to answer, and and you know, maybe maybe that's a question the Packers are gonna be pondering themselves. So, um, we'll see how this Uh,

we'll see how this shakes out. But I do think by the end of the draft, the Packers are going to have another guy in the mix at inside linebacker with Burkes and Bolton and Kirksey in that competition to see to see what happens come. Yeah, a lot of that has been made Mike, of the Packers in the inside linebacker situation and if they want to invest to high pick into it or what their commitment is to that spot. I haven't been as excited about an inside

linebacker class since two thousand and fourteen. Where you had C. J. Moseley and Ryan She'sier and these really dynamic players that both turned out to be really good NFL football players as well. And I see that similarity here. Maybe not with a total you know, pedigree or prestige that they're gonna be you know, top fifteen picks or top twenty picks, but I still think you know, whether Murray or Queen is there at thirty, you also have bond in that situation.

I think you're gonna get a field by the time that this draft is over on Saturday night, where the Packers feel they stand at inside linebacker. How much urgency there there was to add another body to that room. Because as you mentioned, or In Burks, I want to put this out there, or In Burks is an NFL football player. He is a solid special teams guy. The question for him that he must answer is whether or not he can be a starting defensive player in this league.

It's gonna be his objective right now. In Staying healthy is a big part of that because the preseason games, as you well know, those don't really matter that much. It's the fact that he's been having to sit out of those training camp practices those padded practices. When you get fifteen eighteen of them, you want to be able to maximize that opportunity. He hasn't been able to do that.

Tye Summers, the seventh round pick from last year. Summers doesn't have the size of a lot of those inside backers, but the guy can run and he's a pretty good athlete. So Bolton Summers in in in Burkes. They give you options. There is that number two, but I just feel like, whether it is the first round, second round, or maybe into that third day, bringing in another inside linebacker type is gonna be really essential for this defense and being able to really push that room and see who you

can have potentially step up next to Christian Kurtsey. Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned Thy Summers too. I didn't mean to ignore him, but certainly a seventh round pick who made his mark as a rookie on special teams, he'll be looking to take that next step forward in year two of his NFL career. Like a lot of guys, and before we move on to defensive backs, I don't want to ignore outside linebackers completely. We mentioned the Packers have the Smiths. They have Gary as a first round

pick from last year. Kyler factor the number four guy in that rotation. He's gone. He left as a as a free agent, so um, the Packers certainly could use another outside linebacker. Randy Ramsey was a guy who's on the practice squad last year, was an undrafted rookie year ago.

We'll see what happens with his development. I think the Packers will add to that outside linebacker group, but based on the other needs and everything they have elsewhere in the draft, it's hard to envision them using a high draft pick on an outside rusher the way they invested so much in that position a year ago. Yeah, exactly. And you've got to get Rashan Gary on the field more. I think he played of the defensive snaps last season, and a big reason for that is because of Kyler

Facral and in his ability to play coverage. I think Fatral is gonna be a really good NFL football player. I think he's gonna have a real opportunity in New York to expand his horizons a little bit and maybe

use his skills on a more consistent basis. Because even though he had that ten and a half sax season, that's not Kyler Facral's game, Kyler Facral's game is that he is going to be able to give you some pass rush, but he's also gonna be able to play a different, you know, type of linebacker role almost I don't want to say poor man Clay Matthews, but in that kind of vein where he can also play coverage in addition to what he does on the line. So

the Packers probably need to replace that guy. But in terms of the number of the backup role to the Smiths, that guy has to be Rashan Gary. I just I think you have to be able to get him on the field because for as much of the narrative was, hey, is Rashaan Gary doing enough as a first round pick, I kept going back to I don't know if he's really had the opportunities to show that he can do much more than playing out of the dime, and I

think he's capable of that. I look at this guy has having a very similar skill set to Darius Smith. If you can get him going, if you can get that second year jump from a guy that's still very young man having that kind of change up to to what Darius Smith does, that could really be a challenge. For offensive lines throughout the NFL. Yeah, I'm totally with you there. Well, moving on to defensive backs, it's interesting West because in a lot of ways, I look at

the safety position much like the outside linebacker position. The Packers did their overhaul of the position last year. He signed Adrian Amos, and free agency, you traded up with that second first round pick to get Darnell Savage. You have your starting pair, and then you mentioned Raven Green as sort of that third safety hybrid linebacker type. Ibrahem Campbell was on the Packers last year. He's still available

on the free agent market as another option. So I'm not sure how closely the Packers are looking at safeties in terms of their their higher picks, you know, Day one, Day two picks in this draft. But cornerback, that's another situation because while the Packers really like what they have obviously with JayR Alexander and Kevin King. As you're one and two, Rmon Williams has not resigned with the Packers. He's still out there. He's available on the free agent market.

Kevin King is going into his contract year. So while the Packers have depth at cornerback, you you still have Channon Sullivan. He was brought back. You have um excuse me. Kadar Holman was a sixth round draft pick last year, but very much an unknown because he didn't play a whole lot on defense. The situation at cornerback, I think the Packers are going to be looking at at some guys in this draft because you just don't know what will happen with King down the line and and things

with Tremont Williams. There's still a question mark at this point. Yeah, we don't really know where things stand with Tremont Williams, and at the time in which we're taping this, haven't had a chance yet to talk to Brian Goodacunst as far as what the direction they want to go with that nickel cornerback position, because honestly, Mike, that's the biggest opening right now in terms of maybe not having a guy that's just stepping in there and could be the

presumptive starter. You mentioned Sullivan, you obviously mentioned Holman. Josh Jackson fits into that as well. Uh, you know, the former second round draft pick from two thousand and eighteen, the other guy that was taken with jire Alexander. So they do have options, But what do they want to put in that role. Here's the position I'm looking at, though, and it kind of blends between the two of them.

A guy that I keep going back to and I'm gonna be writing about this week, and one of the ten Trigging Prospects story I'm doing is Geno Stone from Iowa. I really like this guy's makeup, and if you look at where the Packers have had success, it's been at those hybrid types of you know, a guy that kind of blurs the lines between cornerback and safety, and I think Stone does that much like Micah Hye did. And this is the guy that's probably gonna end up being

a Day two pick, maybe early Day three. I really like his skills in terms of being a guy that could potentially be a backup at safety but also play that nickel star role. But getting back to your original point, you do have Kevin King coming up on the last year of his contract. You do want to have a backup there as well for the outside perimeter guys, and this is a sneaky good draft for finding that type

of guy. I think there are a lot of parallels right now between the two thousand eighteen draft that the Packers got Alexander from. In what we're looking at right now with this two thousand and twenty group, a lot of different body types, a lot of different skill sets, and as much as you and I've talked about defensive tackles and offensive tackles, that could be a sneaky pick there for the Packers in the first two rounds if they want to go to the cornerback round again. Yeah,

I agree with you and a couple other guys. We definitely should mention second round draft pick from a couple of years ago, Josh Jackson. We talked about the injuries that or and Burke's had his first couple of years. The same thing happened to Jackson last year's coming off of a rookie season where you could see he was working his way into a into a role on defense.

But then a significant offseason injury really set Josh Jackson back, and then he wasn't able to climb that depth chart when Truman Williams and Chandon Sullivan and all these guys were filling their roles early on in the season last year. So Josh Jackson is a guy who's looking for a bounce back season and then another one I'll throw out and I mentioned him an insider inbox a couple of

weeks ago. Kebon into an undrafted rookie from a year ago. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that this guy was gonna be playing fifty snaps a game on defense for the Packers last year. But you know, Welst we were watching in training camp last year. This was a young guy who was going to have a shot to

make the team. He had a legitimate shot to make the fifty three, and then he pulled his hamstring running stride for stride with a receiver on a deep ball, made a really really good play on the ball, but pulled his hamstring and then that was it. He ended up not being able to make the team, spent the year on the practice squad when he was healthy. So that's another guy to keep an eye on here coming back.

As they say West, especially in this day and age in the NFL, passing oriented lee, you can never have enough cornerbacks. And you know, I don't even know if I would say cornerback would be a sneaky pick necessarily high in the draft for the Packers because in this league, man you're gonna you're gonna have four cornerbacks on the field quite a bit. If you don't have five or six who can really play on your roster, you are one injury, one injury away from being in dire straits

potentially at that position, depending on matchups with a certain opponent. Yeah, two things I want to mention here. One, if we would have had an offseason or a rookie orientation program, which I don't think we're gonna be able to get, at least in the traditional media sense. One of the things I wanted to do is a Day two story was looking at how many guys the Packers have actually

brought back from their practice squad last year. I would say half of those guys ended up spending the entire year there, Ramsey among them and into them among them. That's a huge benefit to have that kind of institutional knowledge of the system, in addition to the few guys that ended up getting elevated throughout the course of the year. Two. And you can clip this Marvin back in the studio if he wants to, I still maintain and if I

end up being wrong, people can take this clip. They can they can send it to me they can tweet it at me, they can put it on my doorstep. Josh Jackson is gonna be a starting cornerback in this league. I am fully convinced of it. I know there have been some ups and downs, but he has the size, he has the playmaking, and I feel like if he stays healthy, this guy is one of the people that has been completely slept on. I know there's been hits and misses over the last five six years with cornerbacks.

I don't get that feeling from Josh Jackson. And he kept up a great disposition despite adverse circumstances, despite being a game day and active once last season. He didn't complain. He went through a lot last year that I think people don't realize and he still was a professional about it. And here's the here's the baseline too. The guy is a really good special teams player. In my opinion, he

was their best gunner last season. So at the bare minimum, I think you're looking at a Jared Bush type that can play multiple positions on defense even if he isn't a starter, and give you a solid contributor on special teams. But Josh Jackson, he's a guy that I think a lot of people have forgotten about, and I think that's a mistake. Yeah, I would agree with you there. I'm really interested to see what happens with Josh Jackson here

heading into year three. And while we're at it here West, we'll just we'll hit on special teams for a moment, because you mentioned how Jackson's had that role, or In Burks has had that role. Will Redmond is sort of, you know, in that third fourth safety range. He's another guy the Packers brought back. He tied or In Burks

for the team lead in coverage tackles last year. So bringing back Will Redmond and then also obviously the Packers re signed Mason Crosby and they brought back Tyler Irvin, who sparked the return game at the end of the year.

The Packers are showing a definite commitment here two special teams and where things are headed under special teams coordinator Sean Manga, who was just a first year cord later last year, and obviously I'm sure he learned a lot heading into his second year in that position in the NFL. So with the Packers having five draft picks in the

sixth and seventh rounds coming up here this weekend. Those are the kinds of picks where you might see, you know, yes, those are not guys you're drafting thinking they're gonna step in and start at linebacker or at safety or whatever. But those are guys that if they've got some special teams ability, they can make their mark as a rookie and then and you upgrade your special teams and then see where their careers go from there. The Packers have the draft capital in the late rounds to try to

find those guys if if they want to. The foundation has been set, is the biggest thing. I remember talking to Mason Crosby at the end of last season just how much he appreciated the fact that, Okay, he has the same punter, he has the same holder, he has the same long snapper. Again, it had been five years since he really had any semblance of consistency in that two areas, and he felt like that contributed a lot to his career year. Getting him back in the fold

was huge. But as you mentioned, I think this is something you really got to take a deep look at. For many years, the Packers focused on young guys, undrafted free agents, and that's fine, that's well and good, but a lot of times those guys ended up playing a lot of special teams for them. This year, the way that they've approached this now, you gotta remember Will Redmond is a former third round draft pick. You have guys like Orn Burke's and in Alan Lazard and Entie Summers. Uh,

you even look at Robert Tonyan. They have guys that have built up a core of those special teams units that play multiple spots and multiple variations of those phases. That's big, Mike, because when the Packers were at their best and special teams, and I would maintain that was right around two thousand twelve, right at the end of where Randall Cobb was still handling returns, it was because they had Jared Bush's. It's because they had Jamari Lattimore's.

They had these guys that worst defensive players and and obviously could help out in that phase. But also we're really solid on special teams. I think you're seeing them get back to that so that if they do find a guy in the six or seventh round that could help out, there is some other guys there that it's not all on these young guys to be able to

fill out those teams. Yeah, and those are those are the types of things that as as we talk about the Packers being only one game away from the Super Bowl a year ago, obviously they're hoping to take that next step. When you talk about guys like Jared Bush, he had an interception in the Super Bowl as a backup defensive back, Frank's Zombo had a sack in the Super Bowl as a backup linebacker, and a special teams

guy is an undrafted rookie. So you never know where exactly these guys are going to make an impact, and when they do, it's all about putting together that first the best ninety man roster you can't, then the best fifty three man roster you can't to move forward into the season. Absolutely, and and that's the intriguing part of it because you don't know when you draft guys, you don't know what they're gonna turn into. You don't know

where they're gonna fit. Sometimes Jeff Janis ends up being an offensive the type of Jeff Jannis player ends up being an offensive revelation. Sometimes he just ends up being

a really good four year contributor on special teams. Those are the type of things that you just have to draft the talent, figure out where you think they fit best, and let training camp, let the process play out, because, yeah, you don't go claiming Jared Bush back in two thousand and six believing that Okay, well this is gonna be a special team stalwart for us for nine years. You just gotta let the situation unfold and see where they

can potentially give you the biggest boost. Yeah. Absolutely, Well, with that, we will sign off on this edition of Packers Unscripted. Will have one more draft preview episode coming up on Wednesday. This week, West, I'm gonna throw some of the hypotheticals at you with regards to the Packers. First we get the hypotheticals and insight. You know I

love hypotheticals, Mike. Yeah, So I'm gonna toss him at you and we'll we'll we'll throw them back and forth a little bit on Wednesday show as we get ready for Thursday's draft. But for now, thank you for watching. Everybody, take care, stay safe, and we will see you next time.