#516 Packers Unscripted: Super matchup

the Green Bay Packers. The season is over. Just to get some logistical things out of the way, you and I are going to be doing this show and one more show tomorrow, and then we're gonna go dark for a little while because they're gonna be some days we won't both be in the office and all that kind of stuff because we gotta take our breaks. So we will be back from the combine in Indianapolis a little

bit later in February. I always look at this like seasons, where you have like the regular season unscripted, and then like the off season. It's like all your favorite television shows when you're a child, They didn't fifty two weeks out of the year. You had to have some variety mixed in there. So we have to reset. We have to write new scripts. We don't write scripts, it's unscripted. We gotta fake writing some new scripts. And then we'll

be back for the combine. My point being that with having two shows left here before, we take a bit of a break, and tomorrow we'll be hearing from Packers general manager Brian Gudakuns. He's going to be giving an end of season press conference, so I want to save that discussion for tomorrow's show. So what I thought we could do today is actually give our thoughts a little bit on this Super Bowl matchup. The San Francisco forty Niners a week from Sunday down in Miami, will be

taking on the Kansas City Chiefs. The Chiefs in the Super Bowl for the first time in fifty years, the Niners back in the super Bowl for the first time

since two thousand twelve. I don't know what you thinks, but I think this is going to be a wildly entertaining super Bowl and there are some really really interesting things from matchup standpoint that I guess we can jump the gun a little bit because everybody in Miami is going to be talking about it next week, so we can we can talk about our thoughts as far as how these teams match up. But I think it's gonna be a whale of a game. Oh, it's gonna be

a lot of fun for a lot of reasons. I mean, the biggest thing is that you have Patrick Mahomes and that that style of offense that Kansas City employees going up against Robert Sala's defense. I think it's a great test for both of those phases of the game, and offensively seeing exactly how this Jimmy Garoppolo led offense functions against Kansas City with the defense that I think is better than it was a year ago. Oh yeah, there's no question that's that's gonna be a big test for

them and seeing how exactly they defend it. More than anything though, I just think that this could really be set up to be Patrick mahomes coming out party to the NFL. Everybody understands he's he's won an m v P. He's one of the most exciting young players in the National Football League. But let's be honest. I mean the Tom Brady Drew Brees kind of era that that years to be kind of fading now. So you know, Peyton

Manning's gone, Eli Manning is retiring. There is sort of this dearth of like profile superstar quarterbacks out there right now, and Patrick Mahomes is set up to be one of

those guys. Yeah. A couple of things that really intrigued me from a matchup standpoint about this game is in the a f C playoffs, we saw that running game of the Tennessee Titans and Derrick Henry just plowing their way through the Patriots, through the Ravens, and really through the first quarter and a half in Kansas City where Tennessee had a seventeen seven lead in that game. They

were controlling the ball, controlling the clock. Then Kansas City's defense stood up to Derrick Henry and the run, and once they were able to slow that down and take it away and the ball was in Patrick mahomes hands on a more frequent basis than the Chiefs started to

get their separation. So given that the San Francisco forty Niners ran the ball forty plus times against the Minnesota Vike things ran the ball forty plus times against the Green Bay Packers to plow their way through the NFC playoffs, that to me is interesting. Now that the dynamic of this San Francisco running game against that Chiefs defense that

had to stand up to Derrick Henry. Then the flip side of it for me is that the San Francisco defense, which is so good up front, and they do such a good job getting pressure with just a four man rush most of the time, they don't have to blitz very often. But if there was one thing San Francisco maybe had a little bit of trouble with this year because a lot of it was in their division, it was with the scrambling mobile quarterbacks like Russell Wilson of

the Seahawks and Kyler Murray of the Cardinals. They had four games against those guys, and those might have been there four four of their toughest games of the season.

Now their challenges Patrick Mahomes and uh I think that's the the intriguing matchup on on the flip side of things, from an X and O standpoint, it's kind of hipster game, if we're gonna be honest here, right, because, like, offensively, maybe outside of George Kittle, I don't really know if you line up any of these San Francisco forty niners like skill position players and maybe even Jimmy Garoppolo himself, how many, like casual football fans are gonna be able

to point out, Oh, that's Rashim Mostart. You know, that's that's Kyle use Check. They just aren't built that way. There just isn't that those those superstars to keep using that word in this offense, but they're so effective in what they do. And to be honest with you, Mike, I think this is probably the most dynamic running game that has gone into a Super Bowl since maybe Seattle want It. I mean that was more based on one player, but it's just it's amazing to watch all these different

backs compliment one another. I mean, you heard me asking the questions during the week leading up to the San Francisco game. It is it's a it's an unquantifiable strength that I think that they've had all year long that Okay, it can be Mostart, it can be Brita when they've needed him to be that guy. Jeff Wilson had a couple of big runs this season, and seeing exactly the way that Kyle Shanahan uses those assets in how Kansas City is going to be able to defend against that.

Because as much as you you you can point out things the Packers did wrong against the you know, the Forts in that game, it's not like they just were running the ball right up the middle for four quarters and the packers couldn't stop it. It was the different variations of that scheme that maximized those opportunities. It was outside, inside, it was end a rounds, it was misdirections that it was all. It was all kinds of stuff, and the packers were quite frankly, just flustered with all of it.

And this is a this is an oversimplification, Okay, but I remember covering high school football and you might remember this too. Now, the threat of the past is not there like it is in the NFL, but all the top offenses that I covered at that level, it was always predicated on deception misdirection. Can you get guys to think the defense and make them move a stick slower? San Francisco has incorporated those principles at the NFL level.

That is mind boggling that they've been able to do that, because it wasn't just the Green Bay Packers that had problems solving it. A lot of teams have had problems solving it. Kansas City, as much as this is about mahomes in Tyreek Hill and all these offensive weapons they have, I think that game is ultimately going to come down to can they stop the run and forced Jimmy Garoppolo to throw. Well, that that personnel that San Francisco has in the running game really is a one of a

kind combination. Because you talk about the three headed monster at running back. Not a single one of those guys West had even reached a hundred and forty carries in the regular season, which means not a one of them average ten yard I'm sorry, average ten carries per game in the regular season because the workload was so spread out. So you have that on top of the fact that you have the best tight end in the game and George Kittle and the best fullback by far in the

game in Kyle use Check. That's your run person now, aside obviously from your you know, your main five guys up front on the offensive line, that's a that's an incredible combination of run offense personnel that no one else has, you know, and that's what makes them so special. Now, from the tight end position, if George Kittle is the number one tight end in the league, Travis Kelsey for Kansas City is one A or number two however you want to phrase it, and he plays a very different

role from George Kittle. He's maybe not as involved in the running game as Kittle is, but but he's certainly a target for Patrick Mahomes in the passing game, whether it be in those safety valve instances to move the chains or potentially for the big plays down the field. So that part is that part is really interesting here as wealth just from a personnel standpoint, it's kind of like when they hand out like m v P and

like Offensive Player of the Year. In my opinion, George Kittle is the best tight end in the National Football because everything if you put up a job description of a tight end, he excels at all of it. Travis Kelsey is the best playmaking tight end I feel like in the National Football League in the areas that especially with where it complements this offense. He's exceptional. And Patrick

Mahomes has that trust in him. And you can't really understate the fact that since the very beginning, since Kelsey came into this league, he has been a difference maker. There wasn't really a let up at all. This guy just blew onto the scene and knocked the doors down here and and yeah, I think there's a lot to be said for both of these offenses. Getting to the stage and having those type of tight ends. Because Mike, this is putting you on the spot. I don't expect

you to be able to answer this. I mean, think of the last time you've seen a Super Bowl with these with with arguably the two top tight ends in the National Football League squaring off against each other. It's been a hot second. Yeah, I I can't. I mean even even thinking back to to do that. Yeah, even thinking back to like say the Cowboys dynasty of the early nineties, when you know j Novacek is running up and down the field. You know they had some of

those Super Bowls against the Buffalo Bills. That that Bills the K gun offense was not built on the title it was. It was built on you know, Andre Reid and Thurman Thomas and James Lofton and all of those guys. So um, you know don Beebie, those types of players. So yeah, it's it is hard to it is hard

to think of of that type of matchup. But you know that's going to be a big storyline in Miami next week and both of the I think both of those tight ends are gonna be are gonna be rather motivated to prove that that you know, now, neither one can do anything about the others production on the field, but I think they're going to be motivated to prove that, Yeah, I'm I'm the best tight end in the league. You know that. That's that's the mentality of both of those guys.

And it's not a coincidence. Like that's the biggest point I'm trying to illustrate her. I think there's a direct correlation of both of these offenses and both these teams getting to the super Bowl with those weapons. Because all year long people ask you and I you know, how do you stop George Kittle? How do you stop tight end X? And it's difficult questions to answer in the Packers aren't the only ones having to answer it. The tight end is an enigma right now in the NFL.

I mean the way that this position has evolved and adapted. This Rob Gronkowski generation sort of ushered in this new wave where you know, it's not just a you don't just have to be a pass catching tight end or an inline blocking tight end. You can beat all of it, and you can play in every down in every situation. You can motion out when you need to, you can be in line when you need to. Heck, George Kittle will take a carry when he needs to. That's just

the way that this thing has gone. And yeah, both of these teams, I'm sure practicing against that tight end are going to be ready for what it takes to go up against a high level guy in a high level athlete. But it just adds in another wrinkle that I think this makes us a very interesting and captivating

matchup on so many levels. Yeah, and to back up for a second what I was talking about before with the forty Niners and their standard foreman rush, that is that's very much the foundation of that defense and how they did have trouble with the mobile quarterback Russell Wilson

and Kyler Murray. From a strategic standpoint, if they want to stick with the four man rush but then have somebody spy Patrick Mahomes and whatnot for the scrambling, that changes the type of coverage you've been playing all season long, because they've been a Cover seven, you know, rush four, Cover seven team. Well, if you want to spy, if you want to spy Patrick Mahomes, suddenly your Cover seven becomes Cover six in terms of the numbers back there,

and that's you know, that changes things. And I think that those are the those are the types of tweaks from an x is and O standpoint, that where the Seahawks and the Cardinals in that NFC West Division gave them some trouble. And that's why I said last week when we were standing in the locker room for my money. Right now, as it stands, that's why Mahomes is the best five tool running running back quarterback in the National

Football League because of the running threat he possesses. H he has, the arm, he has, the accuracy, has the the willpower to stand tall in the pocket deliver a big downfield strike and then by the way, when everything breaks down, he can make it remarkable run like he did last week that touchdown to help them win that game.

He's just he's a threat on so many levels. When I it was in, you know, the Packers won the game, and that was fun and it obviously was important to to get the buy and what it all meant for their season. But the fact that we kind of got robbed of that Rogers and Mahomes matchup was you know, that kind of stunk because it's like it goes back to these these Brady and Roethlisberger and Breeze matchups, you just don't know how many times you're gonna get them.

For whatever reason. Russell Wilson seems to be here every three weeks playing the Packers, but for the most part, those franchise quarterbacks you just don't get those matchups. So, uh, yeah, like I said, if this goes the way it needs to for Kansas City, you know, last year they felt like they were the team. This year, I think they still felt like they were the team, even though they

had a weather through some adversity mid season. The Andy Reid angle to all this, I just feel like it is set up for this to be a really statement game for Yeah, that was the other the other thing I wanted to get to here because you just brought

up Andy Reid. There are some interesting storylines with regards to the coaching in this And to start with Andy Reid, this was his seventh time as a head coach in a conference championship game and before this year, he had only been to the Super Bowl once, got the Eagles there one time they lost at the wire to the Patriots, if I'm not mistaken, So Andy Reid and that was

fifteen years ago. So he's back in the Super Bowl for the first time in fifteen years, still trying to win his first Super Bowl, having now been to seven conference championship games as a head coach. On the other side, I don't believe, and again I'll put you on the spot here, but I don't believe there has ever been a father son combination that had both won Super Bowls as head coaches. So you have the Kyle Shanahan now

as the son of Mike Shanahan. He's the two time Super Bowl winning coach of the Denver bronco So that's some potential history that could be made here. Um. Obviously, two very different coaches at two very different stages of their careers, but some really interesting stories that go into how these guys got here and what's at stake for them. You know what I love about Kyle Shanahan's story. In addition to I think he's just a phenomenal coach. I

love his temperament. I even remarked to you when we were in the press box in San Francisco, he just seems like a guy that is a media member you would really enjoy covering. Based on the few interactions I've had with him, and sure looks like players enjoy playing flame. But the thing that I like more than anything with his stories that this wasn't a guy that was the son of Mike Shanahan, so he just got everything that

he received. Mike Shanahan was out of the National Football League after what two he had to go to Cleveland to be an offensive coordinator. With all due respect to Mike Petton in the Browns, it isn't considered to be one of the pristine jobs in the National Football League over the last twenty years. It's an uphill battle. It's a grind. He he leaves there after one year, goes back to being a you know, you look at this.

You know. Now he's in Atlanta and then suddenly he gets to a super Bowl with Atlanta, and then he gets this opportunity with San Francisco. Everybody's high on San Francisco after one year. Then Garoppolo tears his A c L and they go four and twelve. They luck into

bosup in the early part of this draft. It's just all these things had to line up for him to be back in this moment, and for a guy that has talked about it before when he was in what was it ninth grade or eighth grade or whatever it was, when when Mike Shanahan won the super Bowl in thirty two. It's it's a remarkable story. And that that's the part of it that I think I kind of enjoy out

of this. Either you're gonna see Andy Reid finally get that elusive super Bowl championship, or you're gonna see history be made. And one of those two things the other one that doesn't happen. That's that's a huge reality that you know, that's the beauty and also the real I don't want to say horror, that's the only way that's coming to mind. But it's it's the heartbreak of it, the heartbreak of this game. There's the eisen Lowes are

going to swing Sofia so far well. And when you and when you talk about Andy Reid and and I I'm not familiar with his entire coaching tree. It would take me a long time to, you know, to put all the names together and whatnot. Man, but the fact that Andy Reid is not won a super Bowl, but Doug Peterson from his coaching tree has won a super

Bowl ten years ago was coaching right exactly. So I mean, you know they're I think they're I think there, yes, in Philly where Andy Reid, uh, you know, took five Eagles teams to the conference championship in the NFC, only got to one Super Bowl and then lost to Tom Brady and Bill Belichick. This is a remarkable coaching tree for read just take this with you for a second. Ten former assistants have become head coach John Harbaugh. John Harbaugh was one of them. So there's a there's a

there's another one off the Andy Reid coaching tree. You has who has a Super Bowl ring? But look, listen to this tree man, this is insane. Brad Shoulders, whatever you think of Brad Shoulders, he had success in in in with the Vikings for a short time. Steve Spagnola, who's now his defensive coordinator, Leslie Fraser, Ron Rivera, Pat Shermer,

Todd Bowles, Doug Peterson, Sean McDermott, and Matt Neggy. That's a heck of a t I didn't I mean I knew obviously about and I didn't remember that McDermott was yeah, that's right. And then as we mentioned with regard to Peterson and Harbor having one Super bowls. Ron Rivera has been to a Super Bowl and unfortunately came up short. So yeah, that that is uh um, that is an

impressive coaching tree. I think from a coaching standpoint, nothing against the Shanahans by any means, but I think there's going to be a lot of national fan sentiment towards Andy Reid here to uh you know, to finally be able to hoist that Lombardi Trophy. That that's just what I sense from the general national football fan. Yeah, because I mean there's how many guys have been head coaches in the National Futball League him and Belichick. I mean like it's a short list, and he obviously had to

go through two different organizations to be here. But this is a guy that when things finally went the way they did in Philadelphia, he got picked right back up by Kansas City and then you know, again, this a lot of this goes to John's Dorsey. I will continue to bring up his name because he's the guy that had the intuition to go and draft Mahomes. Yeah, he's

the guy. He's the guy who picked him, and a lot and a lot of people question that pick with how high he took him in the first round, and uh, Dorsey had the courage of his convictions there he turned out to be dead right, and for the moment that they got there, they that was a really weak class

in two thousand thirteen for quarterbacks. I think Geno Smith was the one that got taken first as far as the quarterback's position was concerned, maybe him or forget maybe I'm trying to remember, but be that as it may. He went and traded the second round pick Dorsey did to get Alex Smith. They draft Eric Fisher, who's now they're starting left tackle, and they won right away read one right away with a team they ended up making the decision to move on. They felt confident Mahomes and

it's only been winning in success ever since then. But yeah, to the original point for Andy Reid, this is a huge part of the storyline because he's back in the spotlight and that doesn't happen a lot. Yeah, I think it's uh um, I think it's gonna be a whale of a football game. I I remember leaning over to you in the third quarter of the NFC Championship last Sunday and saying the over under for this game might

be a hundred points. And I and I say that with all due respect to both of these defenses, which are not slouches by any means, but with the way San Francisco can run the football, and with the way Patrick Mahomes can run around and throw and make plays and everything, I just I think this is potentially a Now I don't know if it will be the same as that Eagles Eagles Patriots super Bowl from a couple of years ago, but I think this has the potential to be to be a really high scoring super Bowl,

even with what have been some pretty darn good defenses out there on the field. Yeah, and two former Packard connections in this game to Mike Pennell, who has signed mid season by Kansas City actually started uh in the a f C Championship game at nose tackle for them, and then also Bashad Breland, who spent a starting corner for Kansas Both play for Kansas City. So yeah, it's uh, it's great. It's gonna be a fun week in the

week leading up to that. UM, I still want to be able to be a part of one of those things. I still want to cover one of them. It's always been sort of weird, uh, watching these things from home. But you know, maybe soon enough, and Aaron Jones said after the game on Sunday, I mean he stood out there for a couple of seconds extra. He wanted to watch them put on the hats and get the trophy and everything. You wanted to feel that. So then maybe

next year they can reverse those fortunes. Yeah, we shall see. The Packers are certainly going to do everything they can to make a run, and we will hear from general manager Brian Gutacoont's tomorrow on his thoughts moving forward here as the as the Packers try to take that next step in in the season finale or season A of Packers on Scripted, Yeah we will. We will be signing

off after tomorrow's show. For now, we're calling it a rap on this particular edition of Packers on script would be sure to continue following all of our coverage of the team on Packers dot Com. Subscribe to us, like us on iTunes and other podcast services, and the YouTube channel. The Packers YouTube channel has all kinds of great video content for West I'm Mike. Thanks for tuning in, everybody. We'll see you next time.