#509 Packers Unscripted: Handling the past

to Sunday Night Football for the implications. At that time, the Niners were nine and one, the Packers were eight and two. Many people thought, including Aaron Rodgers, who said, you know, well, it looks like we're gonna have to beat the forty Niners at their place. At some point, he said that the week leading up to that, many people thought it would determine home field advantage potentially in a playoff game. It certainly has. San Francisco will be

hosting it. Matt Lafleur talked on Monday about the film and what do you do with that thirty seven to eight game, which obviously was the Packers low point of the season. It was their worst game of the season. Do you use it? Do you throw it in the garbage? Do you just try? You know, how do you handle it? And his approach, at least from the head coaches perspective, and I think from the coaching perspective in general, as they build the game plan for this rematch, is to

go through everything. You go over all of it. You you have to swallow it all, try to digest it all again, as as difficult as that might be to do. Now, how much he ends up sharing that with the players, how much he wants the players to be looking at that film again, and all that we'll see and we may not necessarily get any details in that regard, but Matt Lafleur is definitely not taking that film and just throwing it in the trash can. It's something that he's

going to use. He feels he, the coaches, the players, everybody needs to learn from what happened and obviously use it to put together a better performance. And it's it's interesting because I will sit here and tell you these are the two best teams in the NFC. I think the season has beared that out. These are not, you know, the one random team that kind of skirted its way into the playoffs and then here they are, you know,

making a round to an NFC championship. Both these teams have earned their wins, and they've earned the right to get that first round by and now the chance to compete for the opportunity to go to Miami and play for Super Bowl. But more than anything, what I took away from this week was Matt Lafleur and Kyle Shannon both stepped to the podium on Monday, and in their own way, I thought conveyed really important messages from the

floor's perspective. As you wrote about unpackers dot com, as you just talked a little bit about now, it's looking at everything they've done schedule wise, preparation wise, and making sure that the coaching staff is doing everything it needs to do to be prepared for this rematch in making by proxy, getting their locker room ready and being able to keep that twenty nine point loss kind of far from memory. And just hearing some of the guys talking

to the locker room. You quoted Alan Lazard in your story, you can just sense that that message already has been sort of conveyed to these players. Yeah, I think that that's what I took away from a couple of players we were able to talk to in the locker room Monday, and hearing from coach Fleur, they're already kind of finding the right perspective in terms of in terms of where where to put this game. You know, Alan Lazard was asked, you know, well, thirty seven to eight, do you feel

like this is such a big hill to climb? And he's like, well, we're not starting the game down twenty nine points. And I think it's natural from a fan perspective maybe in some ways to think, oh yeah, thirty seven to eight, boy, you know it. It sort of does feel like in some ways that you're that you're behind the eight ball right from the start of the game, that you know, but reality is, the game starts at

at zero zero. I think from a preparation standpoint, there's a lot that the coaches are going to look at in that film, put together the game plan, and then they present it to the players on Wednesday morning before the first practice of the week on Wednesday afternoon. But I kind of get the sense that then once you start prepared, once you hit the practice field on Wednesday, you have your Wednesday, Thursday, Friday practices. Then it's everything

is forward, it's not it's not looking back anymore. I think in some ways that's the line. That's the line that you have to walk, because there is a line between you know, using that film and learning from it, but not being consumed by it and not dwelling on it for too long. And maybe it is it's you know, that moment you hit the practice field on Wednesday, that's when the page turns and and all eyes are forward, not back, and back to the virginal point I was making. Two.

This is what I love about the way that La Fleura and Shanahanna mess sagging because they're both saying the same thing as teams. From green Bay's perspective, you lost by twenty nine points. You want to flush it. You want to move on and understand that. Okay, our defense is playing better offensively, you've been galvanized here. I think these last few weeks with Aaron Jones and Aaron Rodgers kind of bringing this offense and and you know, pushing

them forward. But then San Francisco's standpoint, they can't look past green Bay. There's a reason why the line for the game is not minus twenty eight or twenty nine, it's it's minus seven for this reason. And Shanahan talking reporters, I'm gonna quote him on exactly what he said. He said, we know it'll be different. We know that game got away from them early, and that's definitely not the team

we're going to see this week. Everyone knows how good Green Bay is, how good their coaching staff is, how good their players are, how good their quarterback is. I don't think they've lost a game since then, So I think this game really holds zero relevance to what's going to happen. That game irrelevance to what's going to happen on Sunday, San Francisco. That the great part of this story is they didn't just beat Green Bay and just continue to beat down the doors on every single opponent

they faced after that. They lost to Atlanta, they nearly lost to the Rams, a game that would have cost them their first round, the first round seed and buy and everything that went with it. And then they came within a yard of losing to Seattle in that regular

season finale. Now they did put I thought their best performance since Green Bay together against Minnesota, a suffocating outing against that run game, and Kirk Cousins and I have to feel that they're they're pretty confident here with having Joe Staley back, d Ford Kwan, Alexander Matt Brita's is available if they need him, and then certainly Robbie Gold got healthy here over the last month. They're they're in

a good position right now. But at the same time, they understand, much like Green Bay won't be thinking about her treys trying not to think of that that matchup, they also have to flush it and push forward in their own way. Yeah, I think Shanahan also had a line something about, you know, it would it would be foolish too for the forty nine ers to read too much into what happened in week twelve. As much as Matt Lafleur talks about on a week to week basis,

it's about hitting the reset button and everything. You know, Kyle Shanahan's doing the same thing, and he's not going to let He's not going to let his players look at the way they frankly dominated the Packers in the trenches back in Week twelve and look at the film and just kind of go, oh yeah, well, we can do that again, you know, I mean you can't. You

can't take it for granted. And I, in fact, I saw a statistic, and I apologize for not writing it down and getting an exact but I saw something with regard to playoff rematches in NFL history where in the regular season the two teams met and the game was decided by twenty five plus points, so a blowout type of game like the like Week twelve was in Santa Clara, and the team the team that the blowout in the regular season has definitely one more of the playoff rematches,

but it's about a sixty forty roughly split. So of the time the team that got blown out in the regular season has come back and turned the tables in the playoffs. So not that that means anything in this game as far as once that ball is kicked off on on Sunday with the Packers and the forty enters, but it is just something to keep in mind, and

it goes back. I think Alan Lazard's line might be my favorite one of of the week so far, just well, we're not starting the game down twenty nine points, and I think that's what I think that's what the Packers. I think that that's what the Packers fans can can take into Sunday afternoon. Yeah, and you gotta keep in mind too, this isn't you getting beat up by your older brother and Madden and then just putting the Controllers down and coming back a couple of weeks later and

then the same result happening again. These are two teams that there's seven weeks of, you know, adaptation, evolution, improvement on both sides of this. We we had talked after that game that it's like, Okay, the Packers lost to the Niners there eight and three. You have five regular season games left. You have five games to improve and put yourself in a position to make a playoff run. That's exactly what the Packers did. They are playing much

better football offensively. They've improved on third downs considerably after that horrible showing on third down in San Francisco. The third down numbers are up. The um they put themselves in position to score a lot more points. I know we talked how at the end of the regular season they let some of those opportunities get away, so the point totals weren't as high as they could have been. We saw the defense cut down on the explosive plays.

Forty Niners were hitting them, you know. For it felt like big plays left and right in some respects in that game in Week twelve. So the Packers have made themselves a better team. They've done what they've needed to do. We'll find out on Sunday whether they close the gap enough to to take this well. And here's the other great aspect of this matchup with the league wine narrative.

The national narrative seems to have been all season that, well, maybe the Packers aren't a thirteen win team, maybe they're not as good as their record shows, I mean, their point differential, all these other little analytics things you can point towards. The three May Packers win on San win on Sunday against San Francisco in San in Santa Clara, that argument goes out the window. That team has proven at that point that they are the best team in the NFC and have the right to compete for a

Super Bowl championship. I feel like this is a team that every step of the way. If you want to talk about the strengths of this organization, the structure from top down with Brian goodicins, so the way he's managed it to how Mats coach it, and how the leaders in that locker room have pulled this locker room together. They don't care. They will they will handle adversity the way that they handle it. And I wrote it again

and Insider inbox this morning. If you want to beat the Green Bay Packers, you have to do exactly what

the San Francisco forty Niners did the first time. You have to jump on them early, and you have to keep them down for four quarters because if that team is either a in the fourth quarter behind more often than not this year, they've clawed their way back, and if you actually give them a lead, like Russell Wilson found out on Sunday, it's just not easy with how they manage the formative offense, with the fact that they get the production that they need, even if the offense

isn't just you know, world beating everybody, and defensively when they're cutting down on big plays, it's not easy to score quickly against them. Those are all things that have to be factored in this matchup. But it's the reason why when Kyle Shannon said that in terms of you know, they got down early, they kind of got away from their game. If it's closer, it's an entirely different situation. Yeah,

no doubt about it. Well, I want to go back to a couple of things from the playoff victory over the Seattle Seahawks that we can discuss here, because it wouldn't be a big game in the NFL in the twenty nineteen season post season if not for some officiating questions. And I know the fans are interested in our opinions on what happened with the challenge on the fumble play with Jacob Hollister and Chanted Sullivan in the first quarter.

And obviously there's still a lot of barking and crying about the spot of the Jimmy Graham reception at the end of the game that gave the Packers the first down and then allowed Green Bay to run out the clock. So starting with that play in the first quarter, I

think you and I are on the same page here. Um, we're sitting next to each other in the press box, much like we're sitting next to each other right now, and we were somewhat in disbelief at the ruling that came back from New York on that on that review, Am I right, Yeah, I was, Yeah, it really was. And before I dive into that, I just want to make this quick statement, A and B are both true, then C has to also. By the I think is

that the transitive property. It also has to be all the equals B and B equals see, then A equals see. So if they couldn't see whether or not Channon Sullivan recovered the fumble, and if there is no quantifiable evidence, overarching evidence to overturn the spot of the ball on the Jimmy Grant play because of video review, C has to be true. You can't. You can't argue it both ways, whether you're a Packer fan or whether or not you're a Seahawks fan. You can perspective looking at the chan

and play. The biggest issue I took on this and I said this an inbox, is that the lack of urgency to officiate the play. Nobody, whether it was the field judge side that nobody seemed to really be following the action. They were just sort of waiting for the play to end. So with that happening in in you have to understand NFL officials, referees, they do tons of research throughout the week with a review previous games of the teams that are going to be officiating. They look

for tendencies. If you've watched the Green Bay Packers this year, Gire Alexander is not a big guy. I know he'll probably mad at me for saying that, but he's not. He's not. He's not six two two twenty. He's about five eleven. I think he goes like maybe his The way he tackles a lot of times is lower and up. He actually ended up getting flagged for it a couple of weeks ago, but that's the way he has to get guys in the ground and he's pretty darn good

at it. If you see a tight end like Hollister at two pounds or whatever he's doing, and Jire Alexander is the one making the play, you have to understand as an official, this is the way that this cornerback, this defensive back attacks this play. He's gonna go up, he's going to elevate, and he's gonna go for the football the ball comes out. Yes, there were some bodies there, but there weren't enough bodies. It wasn't like it was

that was the thing to me. Is it wasn't like it was some major scrum, and it was pretty clear. It looked pretty clear to me on the replay that Sullivan got his hands on the ball pretty quickly there and then just because some other guys like jumped on the pile like you know. Okay, so they say, they say it's not they say it's not a clear recovery. But man, oh man, I mean, he got his hands on the ball and there was no there was He got his hands on the ball before the scrum happened,

the mini scrum, I guess I'll call it. And there was certainly no evidence anywhere in the video that anybody ever took the ball away from him. So that's what that's what I didn't That's why I didn't understand how that ball doesn't end up in green base possession. So west hod Kuwitz, little west Hodquitz, went in locker room. He did the thing the officials didn't. He actually asked Jannon Sullivan about the play. Sullivan didn't have any communication

with the referees. They didn't even give him an explanation afterwards. What happened was that Sullivan he noticed that JayR had dislodged the ball. He could see the way it was happening. He anticipated it. He rolls down there. Now he said, I didn't have it immediately, but in the scrum he got it. Like he's the only one that ever established possession of this, and if you need evidence of that, he hands it to the official. The officials kind of

just lally gag into the scrum. You know what happens usually on a fumble play. They charge in there and they're already trying to break things up. Yeah, but the yeah, but the thing is the the officials were all relaxed because the call in the field was that it was

was that it was no fumble. So when you talk about the lack of urgency, it was because well they had blown the whistle and the guy who was on top of it said no, he was down, so nobody else was really nobody else clicked in from a mental standpoint to say, well, maybe we should see who who ends up with this call. Anyway, they didn't take that approach on the field, and then I think it cost the packers because because of the review that came from

New York. I still I saw the little video that Al Riveran put out in his explanation, which isn't really an explanation. He's just reading the rule to you on camera, and I just I just don't buy it. I just I thought it was I thought it was weak. I thought I thought there was pretty clear evidence that that

was the Packers football. Yeah. So I guess the question ultimately comes down to if the ball comes out so many times now, if even if the ground force of the fumble they're throwing, you know, they're they're making sure that everyone knows that it's still alive play. They didn't do it in that occasion, So maybe you just get stuck in this gray area whatever it may have you. But it obviously ended up going against the Packers. Yeah. Here's the other question I want to throw at you

about this though. So the Packers challenge the play. It is rule to fumble, but they say but they say no clear recovery. Yet they take away the challenge and the time out, which because it was the first half, I wasn't too worked up about the time out necessarily, But to me, as I said to you in the press box at the time, I mean, the game is only what five to seven minutes old or whatever at that point, and the Packers don't get that challenge correct in the in the complete sense, so it costs them

a challenge. Now you're looking at the last fifty plus minutes of the game, You've only got one challenge the rest of the game, whether you get it right or wrong, because you don't get a third one unless you get the first two right. To me, that to me, that's

something that that was a really tough break for the Packers. Now, it didn't turn out that Matt Lafleur didn't end up with really any other situations where he was maybe being pressed to challenge something and use that second challenge, but he was in a position where he was going to have to have to be very judicious with making a second challenge because it was his only one for the rest of the game, and because that play had happened on on Seattle's first offensive play of the game. A

few years ago, my computer got fried. It was a good computer, and I didn't have it backed up. Kids, back up your computers, and so I had some old stories and some stuff on there, and I brought it to a local camera repair shop, video all that kind of repair shop, and I brought in there and said, hey, there's nothing we can do for you fair game. I got the computer back and I went back in my car and I drove home. I didn't have to pay them anything for them to tell me that they couldn't

fix my computer. If you if they actually if they're ruling on the field changes, because if I'm correct in this, Jacob Holistair is then credited with a fumble, is he not he's credited with He's credited with fumbling the ball statistically, So if there is a change to the play, I think that's one thing. Whether it's in the spring meetings that the NFL is gonna have to look at it.

We'll see if you know, Mark Murphy would end up mentioning it, because you can't be in a situation where, yeah, you know he did fumble, but there's not evidence that it was a turnover. So we're taking away your time out and your challenge. You're right, the time out, Who cares, it's the first half, But that challenge if the challenge rule is going to be that you need both to get the third and if you don't get one, you only get one more for the rest of the game.

That's that's a I thought I thought that was I thought that was a tough break. I want to talk about the Jimmy Graham play at the end too, because I credit and I apologize for not writing down the

person's name. I credit an inbox reader who sent in as I was working on Monday Mornings inbox in the late hours of Sunday night, there was I was directed by a reader to another website had some really good pictures of the play at the end with Graham and the catch and then and then the spot essentially pointing out that Fox's yellow line in that particular moment was off, like it wasn't. I mean, and everybody's you know, your eyes are just trained, like, Okay, there's the yellow line,

there's where the tackle is made. But that yellow line wasn't even close when you look at where the marker is on the sideline, the yellow line wasn't even close. And so I think, I think this whole thing with the Jimmy Graham play controversy is sort of manufactured by some faulty technology that just wasn't quite was wasn't really

accurate enough in the moment. And uh, Otherwise, I think, if I think, if that yellow line is actually where the first down marker is nobody's really talking about this. This Jimmy Graham in the spot of the last play. So this is actually one situation where it doesn't matter how many cameras you have, It doesn't matter all the technology that you can, you know, go into unless we're literally talking about like you know, microchips being in the

football to tell you exactly the precise location. This is actually where you just need to trust your side judge because that side judge had the best view of anybody, view that nobody else captured except for that really far zoomed out sideline camera that they had. The one they tried to zoom in. It wasn't happening. It was like me to take a picture of your iPhone. It's like I want to get a little bit closer, and everything

just gets to start. You have to actually whether whether you agree with the caller you don't agree with the call. The best perspective was the two eyes of the side judge because of where Graham's body landed. He was only showing the football to the sideline, so that's where they

felt like he was down. That's where he was down to This whole thing about the yellow line, I just love that it's got Adrian Amos, it's got all these you know, I think media types, all these people are pointing out like, yeah, you guys have to understand like this isn't like that isn't an NFL like official line. That's that's just the TV broadcast. It's Joe up in the production that you know is just trying to get home to his family here in two hours and you

know and pack up the truck. That's the guy that's like putting that line down on the field. So, yeah, it was. It was a issue where they had it directly lined up on the ardage line. I can't remember which one it was. But the real spot of the first down is signific is inches ahead of that, not

even touching the white. Yeah, that that's that's the thing you could you can see when you if you if you look at if you look at the picture, look at the play again, look at the the little orange sort of I guess you call it the flat pylon. That's like that's like laying there on the grass. And

look at where the yellow line is. I mean it's I mean, it looks like it's a I would say even a good maybe eight to ten inches off I mean, you know, it looks like it's significantly it's significantly off, and the visual of the yellow line, I think is what is kind of what created this whole controversy. Yeah. So fortunately everything cooler heads prevailed. Additional footage came in from the heavens. That was that was, that was only thing.

Suddenly a suddenly Cleet Blakeman comes back on the microphone and he and he says, as soon as he says like additional footage, I was like, oh my goodness, are they going to change the call now? After he already announced that the call stands. I mean, I think lambeau I think lambeau Field would have just like spontaneously imploded if if they change the call after that. But he says, well, if additional footage it became available, but it doesn't change

the call, and then everybody cheers again. The Packers go into victory formation and uh and we're moving on with our lives. And as I said after the game, my first two weet as soon as it was over. I don't know if I've covered a normal football game this year. That was number seventeen now of the rate of our of our season for meaningful games. Yeah, I still don't know if I've covered one that's like, okay, start to finish,

that's what it was. Yeah, all right, Well with that, we will call it a wrap on today's edition of Packers Unscripted. Be sure to follow all of our coverage of the team here on NFC Championship Week on Packers dot com. You can subscribe to us like us on iTunes and other podcast services, and there's all kinds of great video content out there on the Packers YouTube channel for West. I'm Mike. Thanks for tuning in, everybody. We'll see you next time.