Hi everyone, Welcome to Packers Unscripted from Packers dot Com. I am Mike Spofford, joined as always by my trusted colleague West Hodkowits were coming to you here from our studios at lambeau Field West. It is Thursday. We are another day closer to the two Packers Bears meeting. It will be Sunday, a noon Central time kickoff at lambeau Field.
Obviously a big game for both teams, as we've been talking about all week long, and as usual, after Wednesday's practice, Aaron Rodgers had his weekly media session at his locker,
and he made no bones about it really was. He in discussing what he termed the quote unquote deciding factor for this Packers team in terms of whether it's going to make the playoffs, whether it's gonna win the division, how far this team will go, he said it will come down to consistency, and by that he means we've all seen certain levels the Packers have played at at different times this season down the stretch and moving forward, it's about finding that level and then staying there for
as long as you can, because that's been the challenge with this team is to is to get itself to that level and then stay there for an extended period of time. Yeah, we've seen a few games this year out of the thirteen to date where the Packers I think, have achieved that for the most part. Maybe it wasn't the cleanest defensively, but you've seen the performances where they've dictated tempo. It's something I say a lot from the
very beginning. Oakland defensively wasn't a gem of a game, But that's kind of the one that jumps out when I think back to that because of one how Rogers played, but to just the different contributions they got in that game. This offense, I think one thing we all have to step back and just realize for two thousand nineteen, this offense is going to operate at its best when you
have multiple people contributing. They can win games when it's Aaron Jones, they can win games when it's Aaron Rodgers, and you can win games in Davante Adams has a big hundred yard performance. But being able to get those things to happen simultaneously during the course of a sixty minute game is going to be what ultimately propels them into the playoffs and to make a championship run, and
they've done it. They have that potential in them, and I think if there's anything that the Green May Packers can take from these last few weeks as they try to build up a playoff resume, is that they're going to have an opportunity here to really put that on display. The Chicago Bears are a different type of beast though, right it's not the Giants and it's not Washington. They're gonna have to raise their level another notch when you're playing a team that's kind of coming off a recent
hot streak. But all that being said, I think it's the perfect opponent for them because what is the one game when you look at the course of this year where Green Bay, while they won, weren't able to find
in their offensive rhythm. It was that Bears game. Because of how good they are defensively and because of some of the things the Packers are working through at that time, I think there is a better feel of self in what they are now as opposed to Week one, and when you look for areas of growth, while consistency still is the key, I think you've seen it over these last three months in the direction this offense is headed. Yeah, and Rogers was primarily talking about the offense and his
discussion of consistency. But I think, and this is what I wrote about a little bit on our website Wednesday evening, is his words really apply to all three phases of the team, because we've seen the special teams have their ups and downs. And yes, it was a great step forward to find a punt return game against Washington, something the Packers hopefully will have now here the rest of the way. But one game does not mean your issue
is entirely fixed, right. You can't just you can't just say that You've got to continue to do it again. It's about that word consistency. Defensively, the Packers haven't really returned earned to the form they were in in September, where really against the Bears, against the Vikings for the most part in week to certainly against the Broncos in Week three, the defensive side of the ball was dictating
tempo a lot for the Packers in those games. Against Washington last week, we saw the defense allow less than two hundred yards total yards until Washington's final drive when it was twenty to nine and they were in the complete hurry up mode and they had to score twice within the last couple of minutes of the ballgame. So again that's a sign, but that doesn't mean everything is suddenly fixed, because you need to be able to stay at that level for an extended period and and on
the offensive side of the ball. I think it has it has worked for this Packers team to have different guys step up at different times and for this team overall to find different ways to win. But that but we've seen the ups and downs of this as it's gone along through nineteen and the Packers need to you want to still, I mean, everybody needs to be ready for his opportunity, right if you're going to be the guy who's the star of that game, if you're going to be the guy who makes the key play at
the key time. And that's how this team has put together ten wins in thirteen games so far. But on the whole, you have to find a certain level of play here. You've got all your division opponents coming up and then hopefully some more games in January. You have to find a certain level of play here and then maintain that standard because at this stage of the season, any significant dip can turn out to be really, really costly. Yeah, it really can. Because even though the Packers said at
ten wins it was funny. I was talking with John Coon yesterday about this, and you know some of the things that they've worked through in two thousand and eight, the first time that he was able to beat the Bears, you know, that was a monumental moment for him, and it's end up being what set him up for that for that run that they got on over the next
two years to win a Super Bowl. It all starts, it always starts in the division, and the Packers this year have a chance for the first time since two thousand eleven to go six and oh the division since two thousand and eleven. And this matchup with the Bears represents so much more than just a game, just an NFC North of Black and Blue Division matchup. There there's so much at stake here in terms of history and also in terms of being able to feel really good
about yourself going into Minnesota the week after. But the game has changed a little bit. I look at two thousand four, I brought this up when I was kind of paging through the thumbing through the media guide. It was incredible to me that the Packers they had beaten Minnesota to win the NFC North. They went ten and six that year, Minnesota got into the playoffs. I think at eight and eight as a wild card. It's remarkable when you go back and think about it now, the
Packers in most years sitting at ten and three. As as I said in yesterday's show, Mike McCarthy's old mantra, that's when you start thinking playoffs. This year, that's not the case. Ten wins may not get you in the playoffs. Eleven wins could potentially not get you in the playoffs. There are mathematical there are mathematical scenarios where teams in the NFC, the Packers included, could finish eleven and five and still be on the outside looking at exactly and
the Packers they want to win that. The intention once you get past this game, win loser draw on Sunday against the Bears is they want to go into US Bank Stadium and get that victory against the Vikings. That's the litmus test, that's the barometer, because by all accounts,
the Vikings look to be a playoff team. But with this game against Chicago, if you're able to win this and then you win Detroit in two weeks, your work is cut out for you the division champion, and depending on how much anarchy happens here in the NFC, you could be something even more than that. I look at this matchup in terms of, yes, what it means historically, Yes, what it means to this year's team, but also from the standpoint of what's the best way to get hot
late in the season in December. When you look at Aaron Rodgers numbers, it's to win these NFC North matchups with how this division layout is played out in what better way to do it than a win against the Bears on Sunday. Yeah, And we saw what this exact NFC North gonet it did for the Packers in three years ago when they were in a different position where they were they were fighting to get into the playoffs,
they were looking for help from elsewhere. But they had all three division opponents lined up in weeks fifteen, sixteen seventeen, and they ran it, and they ran it all the way to the NFC Championship game before they before they ran into a buzz on in Atlanta. And it's really coincidental, Mike, because that reason I was thumbing through the media guide was because an inbox reader it asked, when was the last time the Packers have finished with back to back
road games to finish a season? That is that is a challenging aspect to this year's schedule, and it was it was two thousand and four. And for the Packers to be in a position here to have eleven wins entering that stretch that gives you a little bit more breathing room depending on crazy scenarios that could play out. And then, by the way, if you take care of business and you win all three of these things, well
then you get a buy. So the stakes I wrote this in a Darnell Savage player on the Rise that I put together on Thursday, the stakes are extremely high right now. And when the NFL made this adjustment to finish the year against your division, this was the type of you know, drama they hope to create. And for the Packers to be back in this scenario where these things are meaningful and the Packers are looking to get to the postseason for the first time since two thousand
and sixteen, doesn't get much more exciting than that. Yeah, just to clarify for folks too, if you're looking at, okay, how can the Packers win the division if they don't run it and win all three and finish thirteen and three. A couple of different ways. You can beat the Bears and beat the Lions and get to twelve wins, and you'll be the division champs if the Packers were to happen to lose to the Bears and the Lions. But if they beat the Vikings next week, the Packers are
also division champs. Um with um because that would be the Vikings fifth loss. Both teams would finish eleven and five in that potential scenario, and the Packers would have the head to head sweep. So there's a couple of different ways here Green Bay can win the division. But you just mentioned the rookie set rookie safety. Excuse me, Darnell Savage and and you uh later today or at some point after we're done taping here, a story as this week's Player on the Rise will be posted on
our website with regard to Savage. And what's interesting to me is we we had talked about this at the beginning of the season. I think we're starting to see it come to fruition now the combination of a rookie, very athletic, very talented young safety being paired with a veteran who has been through a lot of battles, been through a lot of wars, so to speak, and and
kind of knows the landscape of the NFL. It took a little bit of a break when Savage had to miss a couple of games back in October with an ankle injury. But this, this pairing in the back end of the Packers secondary, I think is is really starting to become what they were hoping well. And it was tough for the Packers during that time too, because not only were they without Savage, then you also had to take ad your names and move him up to being
a box linebacker, playing that hybrid role next to Blake Martinez. Yeah, he's playing a little out of position there. I tip my cap to Amos for what he did. He did not complain about it. He stepped up admirally. But as I mentioned to you back then to Mike, the Packers didn't pay Adrian Amos the money that they did. They didn't bring him in from Chicago to be an inside linebacker next to Blake Martinez. They had to do that out of necessity trying to bridge the gap to when
they got Ibraheim Campbell back after losing Raven Green. But they want him playing in that setting, that deep at the back end. They want him being able to rove a little bit, you know, make plays as a strong safety, but not necessarily be a guy that's just lining up right five yards behind the defensive front. And I really from Amos's perspective starting there, I thought that Washington game
really illustrated his value to this defense. He made a clutch interception at the end of the first half that that ended a potential drive there for Washington. He had the sack early off of Blitz. He was uncovered, he was nobody covered his hat, but he still was able to finish it against an athletic quarterback against Haskins for negative yardists play got the big guy down. And even more than that, you just see how smart he is and how he's utilized in the secondary. I mentioned this
earlier this week. I'm gonna mention again so much wants to be made out of Amos playing the Bears. I'm sure Clinton Dix is answering the questions about Green Bay right now, but both of these guys for what's being asked to them fit those secondary pictures really well. I don't think there's a winner and the loser in this case. If anything, the Packers got an extra fourth round pick
out of this transaction. Okay, Now looking at Savage, a young man that came in, he rose up the boards four point three six forty time, which is just remarkable for a free safety. He he ends up being a first round pick, the first defensive pack off the board. And how many times can you remember, Mike and all your years covering this team where we've mis stepped into that first o t a practice and there's a rookie that's starting out there with the defense. It doesn't work
like that. The story I always say is Eddie Lacey for his harolded as he was when they drafted him in two thousand thirteen. He was still behind Alex Green and James Starks and in the veteran running backs. The Packers thought so much of Savage in in what his role had to be this year, he was out there
from day one. He made two big plays the first month of the season, became the first safety to start the regular season opener since Morgan Burnett in two thousand and ten, he has to work through the ankle injury. But I think now these last few weeks, you're seeing a guy that's getting comfortable. He's still only twenty two years old, and he's making plays at a critical position
in this defense. If the Packers defense the things that you were outlining that they need to do to return to form here and to make a real presence this last month in the season and into the postseason, it starts with that safety position. I think you're seeing Amos and Savage both being healthy and playing their natural roles, being able to bring that dimension to the secondary. Yeah.
I mean, I think we've certainly seen some of the expected ups and downs with the rookie safety and needed to have the injury to deal with the middle of the season and all that. I'd like to also comment though on Amos for those who like to check out my what you Might Have Missed feature with a little bit of the game film which was posted on the website on Tuesday. Going through the defensive film from the Washington game, I was really really impressed with Amos and
I got a couple of snap on there. I'm not showing his interception and the unblocked, you know, sack on the blitz. You're like, yeah, did anybody miss that? Like that was pretty obvious, right, But I put a couple of snaps in there that showed that, Uh, that showed both both against run and pass some of the players that Amos was making in that game. His run support against Adrian Peterson in that Washington game was really really key.
Just played disciplined, disciplined football where where it was like he wasn't necessarily like, oh, I've got to rush up and make the tackle. There were a couple of instances he had to do that, but sometimes it was I need to rush up and get into the right spot to funnel him, to funnel the running back back to where the pursuit is to bring him down, and his job was to make sure Peterson couldn't bounce outside and
get to the sideline. Things like that. He also had another play where he chased down um chased down a pass play the he came up to try to to potentially take the tight end. The tight end leaked into the flat Kyler Facker want with him. There was an
over route coming from coming behind Amos. He just turned his back and sprinted over to the sideline and for folks who remember that was the past that basically hit him in the back of the head, But he beat the receiver to the spot in in that instance, and that's why that's why he was there to make the play. So I was just really really impressed with his game. And obviously we all remember that he was the hero in Chicago in Week one with the interception in the
end zone in the fourth quarter. But he's a guy who continues to play down this whole thing about playing against his former team and all that kind of stuff. That's not what it's about for him, especially here in week fifteen. This is about where this Packers team has potentially had. I don't know if Adrian has ever met Morgan Burnett, but I mean, like there's a lot of similarities between those two, and I always I got along really well with Morgan. So maybe that's why I really
like what Amos brings. Because he's not a demonstrative person. He's very even keel and he'll respectfully answer your question. He's just he doesn't buy into that, and it's not because he doesn't want to create headlines. He legitimately doesn't care now and if anything, We're we've already got on through what he knew he was gonna have to go
through that week one. Why would that still be a conversation now, I mean, are we We're just gonna sit here and just keep asking guys about Therefore, you know, should we ask some questions about Zadarius Smith and Baltimore like next year? I mean, it is what it is, But in terms of his impact, I think it needs to be put out there too, that Eddie Jackson had a terrible injury coming out of Alabama, but they asked
Aimos to be the compliment to him. This rookie that was, you know, wasn't able to do a lot of stuff during the offseason program, was not able to do stuff during the pre draft process. They asked him to partner with this kid, and and you see, Jackson has kind
of flourished into an All Pro player. And I think when you look at the intangibles, there's a lot of those same parallels that can be drawn with Darnell Savage and being able to get on a run with two safeties at the same position, being able to play off each other. That's when these secondaries have been at their best. I mean, yeah, The Packers lost Morgan Burnett to an a C L in two thousand and ten and that
forced them to have to pivot to Charlie Pepper. But then you had Collins and Pepper kind of working off each other. When you get two guys that can play their natural spots and be able to understand the responsibilities together, that's going to be what helps you out on those deep balls, on those explosive plays. And I love that you had illustrated that play that that Amos had made because those are the somewhat off script type things that
a safety of free safety is strong safety. They just have to be accountable for you see that a guy has covered. Okay, go find work. Where can you make yourself useful? It's on the trick that they're trying to pull behind you with the with the outroute. So it's it's it's it's it's making those it's making those reactions. I'm sure part of it was film study that he recognized, he recognized in the proper moment where the ball was potentially going to go, and so so he got himself there.
And that those are the kinds of things that veterans can do and can help teach a young guy like Savage so that he gets to that level as well. Yeah, and and the other thing is too that I don't think you can discount about this, and we'll be able to discuss this all offseason. I imagine it's going to be a huge storyline when we go to the combine and maybe even through to the owners meetings, how healthy
this team has been this year. Matt Lafleur keeps he keeps cushioning all that by saying, you have to be fortunate, lucky, and there is truth to that. There's just strange things that happened. Guys get hurt and you have to play through it. But the thing that I think is underrated about all this is that again on Wednesday's practice practice it was modified, but you had all fifty three guys out there. Last week, they had all fifty three guys
out there. When these guys can work like that, especially in this defense, I don't think it is any type of, you know, coincidence that you've seen the defense, relatively speaking, have two strong performances back to back out of any particular phase or unit that probably needed to be able to get some confidence back. It's Mike Petton's team and being able to, you know, have everybody out there and
everybody participating. Trumon Williams has been a veteran rusk guy, but for the most part, they've been able to just kind of work with those pieces together. That goes a long way. Yeah, And the other thing I wanted to mention also with the defense, when I mentioned Washington's total yards under two d until the final drive last week, only really two explosive plays allowed until that final drive late in the fourth quarter, Darius Guys had a twenty
three yard run. They hit a thirty yard pass over the middle on a on a third and long situation. Otherwise, the gains the progress Washington was make was was in much smaller chunks. It was kept more manageable. I think that's also a very good sign for this defense going forward. But as I said, one game doesn't mean that your issue is fixed. So before we go here, West, I want to I started the show by saying, it's the
two Packers Bearers game coming up this Sunday. Do you have a specific Packers Bears rivalry memory from your youth? I mean, before we got into all this, Like, that's a great question. All that is there one? Is there one from your youth that sticks out? You know which one always? I kind of remember. I think it was oh one, right when they went thirteen and three under Dick Drawn Yes, and Jim Miller was the quarterback, Jim Jim Miller and Shane Matthews. Shane Matthews started at the beginning,
and then it became Miller. I think this was mostly because Kate McNown really didn't work out for them, and Miller the journeyman, Jim Miller ends up being their starter, if I remember correctly. Uh, the Bears went thirteen and three that year, and I believe the Packers handed them their two losses, right, two of those two of those three losses. Yes, we're to Green Bayes. That is correct, And that was kind of always fun for me I
as a kid. I just thought that was really cool because it's like even when the Bears like had their good year, Uh, the Packers still ended up getting the better of them. That season. Was a great defense, much like what they had in two thousand six, very defensive heavy team. Um, that's one that stands out to me. I remember there was some some solid performances that Edgar Bennett had against the Bears when I was really young. Um,
but yeah, those are those are the ones. Like you asked me a question like that, that's the first thing that pops off on my mind. Well, I'll tell a story, and I've mentioned this story and Insider in Box. Actually I've got two stories for you if you got some time. I think. Um, I've told this story and Insider Inbox before. When I was a kid. Four was the first year the Chicago Bears held their training up in Platteville in my hometown. Okay, I've never been to an NFL game
in my life. My father that year for Christmas got um, got us tickets to Packers Bears at Soldier Field. There was like a fan bus type thing leaving from our hometown to go to Chicago. Back then, it was about a four hour about a four hour car. So this and this is a This is a late December game Packers Bears at Soldier Field. Lind Dicky was injured. Whoever the Bear starting quarterback was at the time was injured.
This was Rich Campbell against Greg Landry Okay at quarterback, and Landry actually gets hurt in the game and Walter Payton plays quarterback for a couple of series. It was before the wildcat had ever been invented. Walter Payton's taken shotgun snaps trying to throw it, actually through an interception at the end of the first half. The Packers end up winning the game on essentially a hail Mary type of pass from Rich Campbell to Philip Epps the final minute.
The Packers pull it out. The Bears ended up going to the playoffs that year. The Packers weren't going anywhere, but it was definitely a feather in the cap of the Packers to knock off the Bears late in the season. That's the first NFL game I ever attended in my life. I was twelve years old at the time, and I'll never forget it. The other story I want to tell you quickly, my first year in the newspaper business. I'm
at the wa Saw Daily Herald. It's the fall of I had just gotten out of school and it was November and I'm working Saturday night. We're putting putting together the sports pages for the Sunday morning paper and everything, working late, make deadline, the presses start running and everything. The next day. That that Sunday, the Packers were hosting the Bears, and both teams were, you know, right in the hunt. You know, it was mid November at that time.
And our city editor just comes walking by my desk as he's about to walk out of the building after the end of the long night of work. He's like, what are you doing tomorrow? I'm like, nothing, I got the day off, and he drops two tickets to lambeau Field on my desk for the Packers Bears game in uh. And I and one of my best friends was actually coming up to visit. We were going out for drinks
when I got off of work. So we get to the bar and I slapped the tickets down and front and go, look where we're going tomorrow, pal, you know, and and so we and that ends up being the Brett Farve Ankle game with the five touchdown passest eight. The Packers end up beating the Bears. Eric Kramer actually converted like a hail Mary pass at the end of the first half, and it was just a great, great
football game. And uh and you know, the roar of the crowd when Farve came out because he hadn't practiced all week and nobody knew if he was going to play. I ended up being at that game in the stands at lambeau Field by an absolute stroke of luck, and uh yeah, and it's it goes down as one of the great Packers Bears games of all time because of far throwing the five touchdowns on the bad ankle with the big rap on it and everything, and I was fortunate enough to be there. So those are my Packers
Bears memories. As we get set for game number two hundred on Sunday and want to just throw in one of mine that was from my actual work experience, I have to do a shout out to the two thousand thirteen game and the Rogers to Cob catch because the Soldier Field press box is good for nothing. It is
a terrible, terrible view of a game. Terrible location, yes, and if it wasn't for the location wasn't bad enough, they got like these weird like white like things that are on there that like block certain parts of Oh yeah, the whole the whole window frames set up and everything like that. I mean, forget about I mean, it's like trying to cover a game out of your grandmother's house.
But yeah, it's a terrible view. All that being said, it actually was a great view for the Randall Cob play and watching and watching that develop the way it did. There aren't too many moments, Detroit, and fifteen is certainly
one of them. There aren't too many moments that you actually remember I remember from just watching the game visibly, but that's one of them, because it's just it was incredible watching that develop in understanding what had just happened, how there would have been that breakdown and coverage and Rogers just having that lazy or focus on Cobb. They're being able to extend that play. It was one of those that's so easy that you could drop it right
and cop comes through and it comes right at us. Well, and I don't know if you remember, I don't know if your ears recall this, but our good friend Jason Wildy, who's been covering the Packers for a long time, I will never forget because he was I was in the second row of the press box. Jason Wilde is in front of me at that particular time, and before Rogers throws the ball, all I hear is Willdi's voice go,
He's wide open, you know. And that's before anybody on TV could see it, because on television you don't see that Cob is wide open until the ball is coming and uh, and I just remember that because the press box was completely quiet, and of course, you know, everybody is supposed to be professional and we are and uh and it was just funny. It was. It was, yeah, it was. It was just this sort of stunned small outbursts like he's wide open, and it was like everybody
in the press box heard it. And then of course the ball gets caught in the touchdown and the Packers go to the playoffs, So yeah, they're there are certainly memories from being in US boxes as well as sitting in this and that one's just one that's always going to be seared on my brain, just because of how terrible it usually is trying to watch a game there, and in that particular instance, it was absolutely perfect. Yeah,
we had a great view of that play. Well, we've gone a little bit over time today, but we will sign off on this edition of Packers Unscript, but be sure to follow all of our coverage of the team on Packers dot com, Subscribe to us like us on iTunes and other podcast services, and check out the Packers YouTube channel for all kinds of great video content for West. I'm Mike, Thanks for tuning in, everybody, See you next time.