#472 Packers Unscripted: Tight at the top

into the office. You're going to Barbados. What are you talking? Yeah, sure, yeah, right, um. But anyway, we will be back after this show. We will be back next Monday with resuming our usual five shows a week leading up to that all important Packers road trip to San Francisco. But right now it is the bye week. The players are off for the rest of the week. The Packers coaching staffs, interestingly, Matt Lafleur talked on Monday about how their bye week project is

essentially too game plan for the other guys. The offensive coaches are going to look at the defensive film like they're going to put together a plan to try to beat them and the defensive coaches are going to do the same thing, looking at the Packers offensive film, a form of self scouting to try to get to the bottom of some of these things are what opponents are looking at in terms of where some weaknesses are, some things that the coaches want to shore up when they

get the players back from the break. Yeah, it can be very illuminating to do that kind of stuff. You know. Mike McCarthy always called it across the hall meetings that they would do with their self ressessment, self reviews. So I would imagine and I was anticipating that they were going to do something like that with Matt Lafleur and Mike Petton. Why it's so interesting with these two particular sides though, Is it even just because of Okay, how

the game film has gone. It's because they've been practicing against each other going back to May, so seeing where those teams and offenses that have evolved, who's picked up certain concepts better than others. Where things are now five six months after the installation period. I always find this to be a very fascinating time to be able to go back and a lot of times when they come

out of the break, you see some adjustments. They don't always have to be Clay Matthews moving to inside lineback or something that is drastic as that, but you do see subtle changes, sudden personnel that are emphasized, different concepts that are maybe emphasized or de emphasized. So it's an important time to be able to obviously rest the mind.

You know, you don't want to push yourself too hard because, as Jamal Williams said in the locker room on Monday, they're planning to play through February here, so this is like the last little rest bit before you get into that big run. But at the same time also being cognizant of where you are and what you're doing. So when the players come back into the building on Monday, you put forth a plan that's not only going to get you through these next six weeks, but could really

potentially propel you into a postseason. Yeah. I guess one advantage, if there is an advantage to having a bye week this late in the season, is when it comes to this sort of self scouting process. There's a lot of film in the vault. You've got ten games in uh, you know, in the film room to go over as opposed to maybe having only four or five if you have the bye week earlier in the season. So um, it'll be interesting to see if there are any adjustments.

I'm guessing there will be some adjustments, but they won't necessarily be noticeable to us in terms of what the Packers might be doing schematically um as they go forward.

But before we get any further though, West, We've got to talk about this Monday night football game, and if it's funny, I want to use this to pivot into this because I was watching parts of that game last night, and as we talked about on yesterday's show, San Francisco had a Week four by if there was ever a better example of Okay, if you could get eight week or eight or nine, that's perfect, But why you would rather have it in week e eleven rather than Week

four is exactly what I think I saw in that San Francisco game. A lot of things went wrong for them, but the thing that kept popping up into my mind is how different is this game if George Kittles available? Obviously? How different is this game if Robbie gold is available, even though he's obviously had some issues at times this year And Emmanuel Sanders. Emmanuel Sanders goes down with the rib.

They're obviously missing Kyle used check at that point. It's just there are so many things kind of pulling against the forty Niners and the thing that they're gonna have to go through, like I talked about it on yesterday's show, now, is you lose this game to Seattle, You're gonna have to see him again at their place. You go against Arizona. Now next week we can play with anybody, and then the Packers Baltimore, New Orleans. But at the end of

the day, you have to win the ball game. In the San Francisco forty Niners and Seattle, for the most part, neither one wanted to grab that brass ring, and eventually it turned up to be Seattle's game. Well that was It was just a crazy game. I mean, it has to go down as of right now as the game

of the year in the NFL so far. Monday night, those two teams, just the turnovers, the defensive touchdowns, the swings and momentum going to overtime, going all the way to the end of overtime, the missed field goal when the forty Niners had a chance to win. Before that, the Seahawks look like they're going to win, and Russell Wilson throws an interception. I mean, um, the back and forth in the game was wildly entertaining. But the bottom line is now, this is this is where things sit

with us in the NFC. San Francisco's eight and one, The Packers and the Seahawks are eight and two, The Saints are seven and two, and the Vikings are seven and three. That's loaded, my friend, I mean, and honestly, I will say this flat out. I can see any one of those five teams getting the number one seed in the NFC at this point with six games for some seven, whatever the situation is, I can see any one of those five teams getting the number one seed.

And here's the really interesting part of those five teams I just rattled off. There are still five games left this season that involve two of those five teams playing each other. The Packers play the forty Niners and the Vikings. The Vikings play the Seahawks, and you, as you already mentioned, San Francisco also has to play the Saints and the Seahawks.

And that's not even including games that are on the schedule for some of these teams that include Carolina who's still in the mix, that include either Philadelphia or Dallas who's still in the mix. And you mentioned San Francisco has to play Baltimore and a cross conference game. This is, uh, this is really something the way the way this is

shaping up. This this one result with San Francisco not getting to nine and oh and taking that first loss, and as you say, they're bye week as well in the past, and they've got injuries to deal with here as as this gauntlet of a schedule comes up, this thing is wide open for the top seeds in the NFC. Yeah, and just first off, to be my own own budsman here,

I was in correct. Kyle us Check has since returned, but they still were dealing with a lot of injuries in this ball game, and Kindles such a big important part of that offense. He was watching the luxury box or whatever. He wasn't even on it wasn't even able to be on the sidelines with his teammates. So here's what this does. I thought, you know, friend of the program, Aaron Nageler, your one time co host on the show.

You know, he said after watching that game, you know, the Packers have a legitimate shot at a super Bowl here. I think any of those five teams in the NFC right now that are sitting at side too, can all say that they have a legitimate shot. And it's not only just because of the parody, even though it is a slightly top heavy conference. It's because you look over in the a f C and everybody's talking about all the issues that the New England Patriots have and they're

sitting in the position that they are right now. Buffalo just gets beat by Cleveland. That there are just there's very few teams out there right now that are just world beaters that are just knocking everybody down that haven't shown everybody has flaws. Everybody has shown flaws, and just about every every one of those teams, I think I could probably name him if he gave me enough time, has played a true clunker of a game. Quite frankly.

I mean, for San Francisco, it really was last night's game. The way they turn the ball over and the way their defense could not get the stops to force field goals because Um, with the short fields, Seattle was able to punch things in for touchdowns. Um the uh that that was definitely San Francisco's worst performance of the season. As you said, they're they're dealing with injuries, but they don't get a break here and they've got a lot

to deal with. And the thing that Seattle did that you are absolutely unequivalently going to have to do if you're going to beat the forty niners, you have to stop the run, and Seattle did that. They were not able to get going because you know, the way Kyle Shanahan wants to play with this particular group, They want to get their running backs thirty opportunities in a game, whether it's most dirt, whether it's Coleman, whether it is

all these different you know permutations that they use. Yeah, Brita in there as well, who couldn't get anything going with his ten carries. So it is incredible to see a plan get fulfilled. People will talk about the missed opportunities. They'll talk about those last few minutes overtime. They'll talk about, you know, a rookie, you know, I should say, off the street free agent kicker having to come in make a game tying field goal to go into overtime and

then badly missing the one and overtime. But make no mistake, Seattle put themselves in a position to win that game against an undefeated opponent on the road. That's a credit to Russell Wilson. It's a credit to Carson too, man. I mean his longest carry was nine yards, but just continually kept grinding at it. And you know, between whether it was jadeveon Conn, they're just they found ways to

win that football game. Yeah, it was after going down early to mind you yeah, oh yeah, they were they were down, they were down, they had to come back. It was it was a really it was just a really really entertaining game, not in the same way that you know, the game of the Year in the regular season last year, that Chiefs Rams game with like a

hundred points on the board. That was entertaining in a in a very different way, and a lot of people thought and that actually came close to being a Super Bowl preview last year, except then the Chiefs lost in overtime in the a f C championship games, so that rematch never happened. Um, neither this one total yards to which is incredible, and they basically played an extra quarter. Yeah, it's it's a heck of a ball game. Yeah, this one.

We're going to see the rematch in week seventeen as division rivals, and who knows that maybe meeting number two out of three between these teams, because there's a chance that that that they could meet up in January as well. And you talk about one of those teams is going to be going in the playoffs. I don't care if it's Seattle, I don't care if it's San Francisco. Again, they have to get other They have to do their

homework here. They have to be able to get to a a position to be in clinching a spot to the playoffs for that to have the full meeting. But whoever wins that could very well have a first round by could very well end up being the number one seed. Whoever loses it is going to have an absolute drag out kind of match up and then five, you know, six days, seven days later, you're gonna have to come

out and play a wild card game right after that too. Uh. That's that's where the stakes are really high in that conference. But getting back to original point, because I think it worth bears repeating here. For Green Bay, they took care of business to get to eight and two they needed to win that game against Caroline, as you and I were talking about last week, to put themselves in a position to sit back this weekend and see how the

Chips fall. Could Arizona come out now, could they be able to maybe get San Francisco on a bit of a slide here testing them with that Cliff Kingsbury offense. But even more than that, the way the schedule lines up for green Bay, now you're gonna have to travel to Washington, You're gonna have to travel to New York. Two teams together, I think, have what three or four wins.

Those are games you have to win. Then you get Chicago at home, You're gonna have a tough matchup against Minnesota, and then you're gonna have to go back into Ford Field against Detroit. But that's why you win the eight games. You're no longer after three years of having to kind of chase the dog chase in the car. You're in the driver's seat right now, and you're in a position to potentially, you know, control your destiny here going into

the playoffs. Well, and and also given that result on Monday night, just how big was that win by Minnesota on the road at Dallas on Sunday night. If Minnesota is sitting at six and four and two games behind the Packers. With as top heavy as things are in the conference, nobody's really talking about Minnesota in this conversation for first round by and whatnot, not to say that they would have been out of it. But the Vikings

they had they've navigated their toughest back to back. They had to go at Kansas City and at Dallas back to back weeks, and they were able to split them. Um, probably in somewhat the reverse way people thought with Patrick Mahomes not playing for Kansas City. Maybe you think, Okay, the Vikings will beat Kansas City, but then they won't be able to beat a healthy Dallas Cowboys team. Well

it went the other way. But to come off of the loss in Kansas City and then and then to do what they did down in Dallas knock off the Cowboys stay right on the Packers heels at seven and three, this is uh, this is just gonna be really fun down the stretch. Um. And as I said, a lot of a lot of big games, a lot of interesting games to watch here. With Minnesota still having to play Seattle, the Packers are gonna come out of the by and

go to San Francisco. As you said, San Francisco's next game is against Arizona, a team that rallied from a deficit against them and took them right down to the wire, um when they just played them recently on a Thursday night game. So there's a lot to be sorted out here in the NFC over the last six seven weeks as we get to the end of the end of the calendar year, and then it's all just a preview

for what's gonna happen in Jay anywhere. Yeah, and I'll be honest with you, Mike, Arizona is not going to the playoffs this year. But I do not want to play the Arizona Cardinals. If you've watched the games they've had, Kyler Murray looks like a legitimate talent and he seems to really fit Kingsbury's offense. They're flawed, They are still a little bit away, and I don't mean to be dismissive of their chances, but they they have three potential playoff teams staring right up on top of them in

that division. It's a law of math. But I wouldn't want to play them right now because they play everyone pretty much the same way, right down to the wire, and that offense always gives them a chance. So you have for San Francisco, they're gonna have to get themselves back together here. Defensively, they're as good as they get right now in the NFL. You can talk about Shanahan's offense. You can talk about, but I mean it is incredible.

You know, the job that they're doing defensively with that unit. I know some deep ties there from Matt Lafleur with that entire team, but it's it's a big question mark. And if you look at Minnesota right now, Mike, that team, the way that they've bounced back from some adversity, you have to tip your cap to him, and you've got to see where these chips fall over the next month. Because that week six team matchup on Monday Night football

every single week, it looks more intriguing. Yeah, it's definitely getting more intriguing with with each passing week. Before I forget here, Wes, because I did forget yesterday. Select Cousin Subs locations are now offering delivery, whether you're ordering catering or your favorite sub They're delivering right to you when

you order online at Cousin Subs dot com. Cousin Subs we believe in better am I allowed to take the like the reins of the ship for the last five minutes because the thing I wanted to ask you, and I didn't get a chance to put this in our pre production meeting, but I want to ask you is when you look at the totality of where the Packers are at night now ten games. Because I have an answer to this too, but I want to put it out there for you. What is maybe the biggest thing

that has surprised you to this point? And I know it's easy to point to the record, Jimmy Graham talked about it, nobody expecting it to be eight and two, But when you look at the construct of this team and where they got through the first two plus months of the season, Now, what, what's maybe one thing you didn't know when we were going into that first game, you know, walking into Soldier Field, getting into that press box that these past ten games I've talked, I think

what I would say for me, what surprises me the most is the way things have gone in some different forms and fashions with regards to Davante Adams, and I mean that in a couple of ways. One, I wasn't sure that this offense would be able to continue to ascend and continue to improve. We saw so much improvement in the first month and then Adams went down, but the offense continue to get better. Um that surprised me

a little bit. Matt Lafleur, Aaron Rodgers. They found something that works with running the offense through the running backs, through Aaron Jones and Jamal Williams and letting them be the real bell cows offensively. And I think that's going to continue as we saw against Carolina, even with Adams being back. But then the other thing is that this offense would have the numbers that it had as and Davante Adams hasn't caught a touchdown pass after the guy

has had three consecutive double digit touchdown pass seasons. As we talked about yesterday, He's not worried about it, he's not hung up on it. Credit to him and whatnot. But yeah, if you had said to me after ten games that Davantae Adams would not have a touchdown pass, how many wins would the Packers have? I would not I would not say eight. You know, so, um, that's the thing. I that's the thing that stands out to me in terms of how this offense has has managed,

has evolved, has adapted to the circumstances. And I and I still don't think we've necessarily seen this Packers offense, this Matt Lauthor offense with Aaron Rodgers at the Helm. I don't think we've seen it at its best yet. And to me, that's what's going to be really intriguing about the last six regular scenes. This isn't what I wanted to say from my surprise, but the thing I've been really encouraged by and and certainly l A was

a step back, but this offense. Watching that first month of September, there were sony people talking about how things aren't quite working. You know, they're they're kind of ranking low in some of these categories. Very quietly and steadily. It wasn't one particular game, but you saw them rise in passing yards, in points in the in the indicators

that everybody points to for offensive success and efficiency. It's interesting the rushing numbers are still low compared to the league average, but you I think that's arguably the thing offensively that maybe you have the most confidence in right now with what those two guys can do back there, and seeing Aaron Jones evolve the way he has has

been a real treat to watch. But even more so, there were so many years, Mike where you and I would answer insider inbox questions and people asking what can the Packers do to get Jamal Williams and Aaron Jones

on the field together. I'm not saying football is easy, it really isn't, but when you look at your playmakers, I get I have so much respect for the way that Matt Lafleur decided both of these guys can go, and both these guys have their strengths and the fact that they both can be three down running backs, they can pass, protect, they can catch. Yeah, find ways to get them on the field, innovate, don't be afraid of, you know, utilizing your full talent, and and Flora has

been willing to do that. I want to just point out, in terms of my biggest surprise one the way they've started games this season. And there's been a few exceptions, but for the most part, they've just rocking it out, and that's been an area where they really struggled offensively, defensively, everything the past few years, just being able to get out get those points on the board right away. They

usually had to work into it. But man, oh man, Mike, and you've covered the team a lot longer than I have. But their ability to finish, working through adversity, working through yards on both sides of the ball, special teams, you know, at times not being able to come through, but finding ways to win and crunch time. That is the number one thing a team has to do if they want

to play deep into the postseason. And this team, if they can stay healthy, which to this point they have been able to, if they get into the postseason, it doesn't matter what the environment is. Although Packers are hopeful that they're gonna be able to play some games at Land, but with the way things have gone so far, they are going to be able to overcome the circumstances. That

is so difficult to achieve. Because when you talk about one eleven and it's great, it's a great model, you can put it on a T shirt, it's something that guys can all go to. But if you don't believe that you're not going to succeed in those predicaments in the Packers for the most part this year have Yeah, well, I think that's why I focus so much early in the season. I felt that win at Soldier Field in Chicago said so much about where this team could potentially go.

And what I'm talking about is the way things went in the fourth quarter, because you're talking about crunch time and being able to do things when the game is on the line. That opening win over Chicago, the offense in a one score game was backed up inside it's ten yard line. They drove the ball out of there, put together the drive that they needed late in the game to attack on a field goal. The defense gets the interception in the end zone to thwart a potential

game tying drive by the Bears. And then you also had special teams with j. K. Scott coming through with that big punt the fourth quarter. The very first game of the year, you had all three phases do something really really crucial in the fourth quarter at crunch time. And as you said, as the season has gone along, it's been some different ways and some some different happenings

in the fourth quarter to get it done. But what we saw there in Week one was fortunately a sign of things to come, because that's how this team is. When this this team is winning games at the end at crunch time, and that's what you have to do. And that's one of the things that's kind of bothered

me too about some of the submissions. We've got people comparing this particular defense to two thousand eleven, and I get the one comparable and that there's been some yardage allowed and they both, you know, kind of thrived on takeaways. But and you covered the every game that year. I only covered the home games. But my takeaway from that season was a lot of defense. A lot of offenses could kind of score at will. If they didn't get the takeaway, they were getting three, they were getting seven

every single time. There there's a difference there this year, and I think that's why if you want a true assessment of defense. Pete Doherty from the Press, Becausette said this years ago, you have to do some kind of calculation where you have to factor in scoring defense for everything that went wrong, for the yards that were allowed,

some of the explosive games that happening in Carolina. Carolina is still only scored sixteen points in the points are going to be what ultimately determined whether or not you well. And you look at some of the other games to the Kansas City game, the Oakland game, a ton of yards up and down the field. But even those games, they only allowed twenty four. Now you'd like to allow fewer than twelve, but but but twenty. But allowing twenty four points in this day and age in the NFL,

that's not bad defense. It's giving your team a chance when you have Aaron Rodgers and you have the weapons that you have. And yes, at the end of the day against Carolina it was only sixteen and and you'll

take that. You'll take that any day of the week because if Aaron Rodgers, if an Aaron Rodgers offense can't win the game when the defense only allows sixteen, it's not on the defense at least, that's the way I look at Yeah, and it as we talked about yesterday, and I'll close on this, I mean, Kenny Clark said it. You don't want to just always live this way. It's

a dangerous way to play the game. They want to find answers to some of the things that have plagued him and across the hall meetings this week that that all factors into it and been able to self scout, but also the week arrest here. I just I wrote it an inbox today, Mike. He has seven guys right now who have played over the defensive snaps. Those aren't all defensive backs either. I wrote it three maybe four weeks ago that the defense to me was just looking

like it needed to get to the bye week. And the fact that the Packers got to the bye week at eight and two, they are relatively healthy on the defensive side of the ball. Yes, that's where that's where there are. There are more issues to be worked out defensively than offensively. Not that the offense doesn't need to figure out these false starts and delay games and some of these things that have plagued them, but the defense for a few weeks now has needed to get to this.

By they got there, the Packers are eight and two. I look for I look for a little bit of a rejuvenation from the defense after this break. Yeah, and it's that Mike Spofford, you know, realist thing of the week. I mean, you know, just be realistic about it. There's a huge difference between finishing a marathon on and you know, falling down at the finish line as opposed to quitting at mile marker thirteen and walking it in. This team ran all the way to the finish line, specifically on defense.

They got to where they need to get to. They need to rest, they need to recover, and they need to find some answers when they come out of it. But to be at eight and two and to be in this position where among flawed teams you stand above, I think that says a lot about the character of that team and exactly what they could potentially be capable

of in this season. Yeah, well, it is time for the Packers to rest up, for us to rest you gotta flight to Barbados, and for the fans to rest up, because, as I like to say, buckle up, this thing is just getting started. It's gonna be a fun uh, It's gonna be a fun, fun stretch run. But for now, we will sign off on this edition of Packers Unscripted. Be sure to follow all of our coverage of the team. We still do have a lot of content coming on

the website this week. As I said, we're working from home, and no I'm not going to Barbados, but subscribe to us like us on iTunes and other podcasts services. On Twitter, He's at west hot, I'm at Mike Spofford at Packers for the team account. Thanks for tuning in, everybody. We will see you next time. Yeah yeah