#434 Packers Unscripted: Situations and personnel

Week one. As we shift our focus back to the Packers here, if there's one statistic from the Week one victory against the Chicago Bears offensively for the Green Bay Packers that really sticks out to me. And I don't like to reave a at things from last year because last year is last year and this is a new era. But that two for twelve on third down by the Packers against Chicago, that one really sticks out like a sore thumb and something that the Packers have to do

something about it. And Matt Lafleur talked about it. Hey, you know, you can't sit, you can't live in third and ten plus, which six of those twelve third down attempts were third and ten plus. And you don't want to be in that against even the bad defenses in the league, let alone some of the good ones. But this is something that the Packers you've got, You've got to convert more on third down because because this is

just no way to live on offense. No, and it's that's the big thing, and Aaron Rodgers talked about it too during his time with the media. I mean, you have to put yourself in favorable situations there because third down and ten, it doesn't matter how good your offense is, you're not going to reliably be able to convert those. You know, every single timer, as much as you want to, those are maybe maybe one out of four propositions you're

going to convert third and ten plus. So what you're looking for is those third and one to third and five kind of situations that you can dictate what you can do there that you don't necessarily have to be able to allow the defense to sell out to defend the past. You have to give them more things to think about. This is where I mentioned where the run game, I mean, it's still the work is not done for them.

This Minnesota defense will stress them in that way as well, the same as Chicago did over the course of the season. I think with the concepts and you know, on fundamentals and the things that the Packers are preaching here, I think ultimately they'll be able to win this thing out

and be able to get the production they want. But in these instances when you're taking on a high caliber defense like Minnesota, you have to be able to get your yardage early in first and second down and make sure that Mike Zimmer can't just completely pin his ears back with what he wants to call on third down situations.

That's the key to success. I think the huddle, you know, breaking that early enough, getting the you know, not getting the play clock down, doing all those type of things are going to be what ultimately lead the Packers to be in the type of offense they wanted to be. Aaron Jones, Jamal Williams, there's a lot of optimism about them. We've talked about it for five six months now of what they can be in this Packers offense. And you're

gonna be playing defenses like this. I mean, as Aaron Rodgers told John Coon and his four downs, I mean there's a chance that he thinks that there's a possibility you can have four top ten defenses in the NFC North and you've got to see those teams three, you know, two times throughout the course of the years. So if you're gonna be able to get the running game going, you want to continue that. You want to get it

done against Minnesota. Yeah, when you talk about the down and distance situation, and looking at Chicago, I mentioned there were six that were third and ten plus, including four in a row in the second half that were actually more than not just ten plus, but actually more than ten because of either a penalty or a lost yardage play, um a sack or a lost yardage play with the run. I mean four times in a row of between like

twelve and seventeen yards on third down. I mean, it just started to get out of hand there for a while. You look at the Packers six third down attempts when they needed less than ten yards, they were two for six. And you'd still like to be a little bit better than that when you're in that, you know, needing three to seven yard range. But I think the other the other thing that bug me a little bit, and I'll

explain the caveat here. But even the two that the Packers converted against the Bears, they were kind of busted plays, extended plays, like the Packers just never really hit anything in rhythm on third down. It was it was sort of it was sort of like a survival of the fittest type of down. And and I understand defenses, that's when they're going to throw the most exotic things that you They're trying to get you off your game. They're trying to get you to react to something at the

last second that maybe you're not prepared for. And that's what third down is all about in the NFL. That's what makes it the money down, that's what makes it so tough. And that's why this statistic is so important. And obviously early in the season you're going to see even more of those unscouted looks and things that you don't necessarily know that that other defenses is going to

be able to throw at you. But um, but if the Packers can find anything to any kind of a rhythm, anything to hang their hat on third down to say, okay, you know, this is this is what we can go to or this is this is where we want to be when we're in that third and manageable third and medium type of situation, I think that third down percentage is going to start to go up. But um, but you know you don't want to stay down here in

these percentages for very long. Yeah, and this is kind of the situation where I wish John would come barging in again to the show, Yeah, we need we need the we need the blocking fullback. And when I say blocking, the past protecting fullback, who did that so well for all of his years in Green Bay. But the way I've always looked at this, and this is why I wish I could talk to him about it, is I've

always looked at the third down situation like this. Excuse me, you mentioned you know, you had the two that were kind of unbroken place. I will never apologize for converted third down. They're so difficult to do in the NFL. You want to be able to do it because on the other side of it, you're gonna have the instances where the play does come off clean, a guy drops it, a defensive back makes a play, certain thing goes haywire, and then the defense technically wins, even though they might

have been out of position. To me, it's always been those ones in the middle when the defense is giving you everything that they have and you still find a way to convert, regardless of the circumstance, regardless of the package, regardless of the game situation. That's where I think the Packers want to get to this year under Matt Lafleur, because that's where you find the consistency side of it, because you're always going to have the things that go

right and the things that go wrong. It's the things in between that are the rudimentary, everyday plays that ultimately dictate what type of team you're gonna be on those downs. The one thing I really like about the Packers chances though in this capacity, is that I personally feel like you have three running backs that can all be pass protectors and be accountable there. Jamal Williams is certainly ahead of the hack. That's been his calling cards since he

came to Green Bay. Danny Vitally, I think you saw some of that during the preseason during training camp when the running backs were oute that he was capable of being back there and standing alongside Aaron Rodgers in the shotgun formations, and Aaron Jones has really improved there in the last few seasons. It's just about finding, Okay, who's gonna be your go to guys once you get to those instances, because the offensive line knows what it's about.

They know what it's like blocking for Aaron Rodgers in those situations. Regardless of what the scheme is, it's where can you scheme guys open and who's gonna win in those situations? And I'll tell you right now, Mike, if a defense is going to come out again like Chicago did and put three guys on Davante Adams and those those circumstances, you have to be able to win your one on one matchups elsewhere. Adams joked about that at his lockers saying, hey, there's a lot of respect showing,

but I still want the ball. And you know, everybody, it's on everybody's shoulders to be able to make a defense pay if they're going to sell out that much

to cover one player. Yeah, and you mentioned the interview at adams locker yesterday after practice, and it was it was really interesting because he if you go, you can go on the website and look at the the entire locker room interview with Adams he really he's such an interesting player and such an interesting personality to me because he struck exactly the right balance between knowing and understanding how important he is to the offense and what he

brings to it. Without that, you know, throw me the damn ball. To steal a line from Keyshawn Johnson and his book, he never he never goes into that, into that other realm. But he understands and he wants the responsibility of Hey, I I do want the offense to go through me. I understand there are circumstances where a team, you know, teams are gonna scheme to take him away. And yes, Valdi Scantling had one on one coverage for

a forty seven yard bomb. The three tight ends combined for a handful of catches and seventy plus yards and a touchdown. Those are some of the results. Packers didn't get enough of those results against the Bears. But um, but Adams, as you said, yes he does want the ball. He's not going to sit there and cry about it and beg for it, but he knows how important he

is to to this offense moving forward. I've made this argument and you've read it a lot in Cider in boxing raditing that about Adams over this last year in particular, I've kind of laid it out there that I view him as the perfect receiver for that reason, because you want a guy that's confident enough in his abilities that regardless of where the game is at or if the game's on the line, he's going to step up in that that bright light is never gonna be too bright

for him. We saw it in Philadelphia in two thousand and sixteen. I think it's continued all the way since then. But at the same time, he doesn't have those diva like qualities, and that's such a negative connotation, but he doesn't have those prima donna, whatever you want to call it, where it's like, I need the ball eight times a game. I don't here if I'm open or not, you're throwing me the ball. I want my touches. He doesn't view the game like that. He almost views it as if

I win and I'm there, pass me the ball. If I'm win and I'm there and you don't pass me the ball onto the next play, that's an amazing mentality to have at that position, and he's managed to keep it from when he was a second round draft pick out of Fresno State in two thousand fourteen to when he's a two time Pro Bowl receiver today. I think

that makes him special. And I think when you hear Aaron Rodgers talk about how he had a hundred and seventy targets last year, he wouldn't mind throwing four hundred balls this year. That's the exact reason why. Because there's not a pressure on a quarterback shoulders to get him the ball, but Aaron Rodgers nose at the same time, he's going to find a way to get open. Yeah.

And he had another interesting comment in that interview two in which he was talking about, you know, if I mess up a route or drop a pass or something like that, you know, I can't sit and sulk about it. He says, to act like that on the field, even though it was him that's screwed up. But he looks at that as a as a selfish thing to get down on himself, because, as you said, it's the next play and his team, his teammates are counting on him to put it aside and move on to the next play.

And uh, And as you said, I think that's a really special mentality for a star, a superstar player in the league to have, and I'm really excited to see what Davanta Adams is ultimately going to do. I mean, four catches for thirty six yards whatever he had against the Bears. Hats off to the Bears. They did what they needed to do. It still wasn't good enough to beat the Packers in this particular game, but um, but I'm excited about what Davanta Adams is going to do

with Aaron Rodgers this season. And as we talked about too, I mean this game against the Minnesota Vikings coming up. Xavier RhoD is one of the top corners in the league. DeVante has had some fine games against him, though, and he's had a lot of fine games against the upper echelon at that position. The other thing, too, I think there's two positions on this team where there's been a

culture that's permeated throughout the years. Doesn't matter if it's the same players, doesn't matter if it's a guy who

never even played with anybody else. David Bactieri never played with Chad Clifton, right, But I always look at receiver and offensive line of two staple positions in Green Bay where there was a culture established when a lot of those guys came into the system and they maintained it, they passed it forward, they maybe even took it to a different level receivers one of them, And although Davante Adams is the only one of his kind right now in that room, in terms of the experience and the

plays and the catches and the touchdowns in the moments, that's still lessons that are being passed on to that next generation receiver. And I think that's something the Packers hope that will continue on in the years to come. Yeah, I totally agree with you there. Switching gears for a

second to the defensive side of the ball. You have a story on the website looking at Mike Patton's deployment of the defensive backs, and we had talked when the roster was cut down selected with the fifty three, Packers kept eleven defensive backs. That's a pretty deep group. They wouldn't They wouldn't have kept eleven if not for two things. One, they feel like they need that kind of depth with

the way the game has played these days. But two, all those guys did what was required in training camp in the preseason to earn those roster spots. It wasn't just oh, we need eleven, so we got to find a leven to keep. They feel pretty good about this group and uh and those defensive backs were deployed in a lot of different ways in Chicago. They were Mike and There's two things. There's probably one regret I didn't actually put in this story. You know, there's been years

where the Packers kept more defensive backs. You know, they've kept twelve before. I think even last year. The year before, they had twelve on this roster. But what strikes me about this particular group is they have a lot of guys that can actually play defense right now, like they can go out there and play a lot of times. It was guys that you know, developmental prospects, special teamers, guys that are going to be healthy scratches every week with you know, canar Holman had a neck injury that

he's been working through. He's been practicing but been in a no contact jersey. Other than that, they're completely healthy at that position right now, and yet they still kept that many players despite the fact that you have Warren Burke's dealing with his chest injury right now, and they're going lighted inside linebackers. So what does that all mean, Basil, Well, what it means is you go into that game against

the Chicago Bears having to make a decision. Are you gonna go with Tie Summers, that's who they listed as a starter at the position going into the day, or you're gonna get a little bit more creative now, you know, Matt Lafleur kind of downplayed the three five five or yeah, the three five package that they three five three or whatever it was, three three five. Wow, this is going great. I hope Marvin will be able to edit that out.

He won't be able to. But that base front that they used of a five man front with one inside linebacker and then five defensive backs. Raven Green became that quote unquote inside linebacker. And it's not new for the Packers to use a hybrid safety, They've been doing it for the last four years. But to use it on rundowns I thought was very innovative in the they were able to pivot off that package. They You know, there were times where Raven Green came off and Tony Brown

came in. Kevin King said he was on a rep count. Probably was only supposed to play about half of the Mona snaps he actually did, and then the forty two that he saw, including every play the last two series. But yet they're able to give different looks. There is an advantage to that, Mike in the fact that they only gave up forty six rushing yards the most, the fewest Simoni yards that they've allowed in almost three years.

I think speaks to not only that front for how they were able to maintain the lines there and not allow guys to break free, but also what those secondary players did to tackle and to remain accountable and still make plays on the ball with whatever it was eleven, you know, pass the defense to whatever they finished with. Yeah, I think that's the ultimate schematic question for this game for Mike Petton and the Packers defense, And we're not really going to know the answer until we see what

unfolds on Sunday at lambeau Field against the Vikings. But can you contain Dalvin Cook and the Vikings running game with Raven Green as your primary, so to speak, second inside linebacker next to Blake Martinez, or do you need to go to more of a traditional run stopper. I'll say, in the form of rookie Tie Summers or the newcomer b J Goodson, more of that, you know, stout run stopping,

you know, traditional inside linebacker. And maybe and maybe it's a matter of just how the game evolves and and and what happens is to uh as to how that ultimately plays out. The other thing, I'll say you brought it up. I was absolutely stunned when I saw the stats at the end of the game that Kevin King had played forty two snaps. When I was like you, I thought maybe he would be playing you know, eighteen to twenty or something like that after missing an entire

month with the hamstring injury. But that's the other thing to me from a schematic perspective, that could be really interesting in this game because last year Week two at lambeau Field, Minnesota came in here and when JayR Alexander and Kevin and King were on the field together for the first two and a half quarters of that game, Minnesota's offense wasn't doing a whole heck of a lot.

Kevin King ends up leaving the game with an injury, and then starting late third quarter, through the fourth quarter and into overtime, Kirk Cousins was going off. I mean, you know Stefon Diggs and Adam thieland and these guys, and and you know they're passing game just exploded. Now It's not only because Kevin King left the field. And yes, I understand the Clay Matthews called took away an interception and that led to even more passing yards for Kirk

Cousins when the game essentially should have been over. But if Kevin King can have that kind of a snap count already when he's missed a month, and then if you figure out what's gonna work best schematically against Dalvin Cook as far as what you want to what package you want to line up within the front to try to slow down the run, this is gonna be a

really really interesting XS and o's type game. Absolutely, and to surmise everything that you just said, uh, in terms of this matchup, in terms of what they were able to do. I asked Tremont Williams about this. This defense is just different when Kevin King is on the field. It just is because, as Williams said, there's only so many six ft three corners in this league. There aren't many at all. And then you add in the running, his movement skills, the agility. Kevin King is a special guy. Um,

so for them to have him available. You wrote about this offseason. We've talked about it at nauseum. This defense is different when he's healthy and he's out there. The other nice thing about it too, and I was another question I asked of King, is that you know, this is a big building block for him last week to

be able to actually go out there. He felt great afterwards, even though he did play a little bit past what they wanted him to and in the critical moments he was on the field with that defense getting the stops that they needed. If this secondary can continue to gel and you know, get some consistency back there, which they just were not able to last year when they were, you know, running more than a dozen different defensive backs

on the field throughout the course of the year. You mix that in with the pass rush that we saw against Mitchell Robinsky, that's what's offensively gonna make teams make decisions of how they're going to attack the Packers in either way, it's gonna work to Mike Petton's benefit. That's what I'm looking for moving forward now. In addition to the fact that you've got a guy like Josh Jackson,

who was a second round pick last year. He didn't really play in this game, but if you had to put him in there multiple spots, the Packers feel pretty good about it right now. Cauldar Holman had moments during the preseason. You've got two other guys and Will Redmond and Shannon Sullivan who have started games in the NFL before,

So it all factors together into the big picture. But ultimately, when you get Jr. Alexander and Kevin King on the field, that's when the defense really does have its work cut out for them. Yeah, well, before before we go quickly, any thoughts on Thursday Night Football tonight, Buccaneers and Panthers and two teams that they each lost a hard fought game of this is a division game in the NFC South. Uh,

two teams fighting to avoid the dreaded Owen two. And it's not to paint the picture that Tampa Bay has the same expectations is like let's say the Cleveland Browns going into this year. But I think there was a lot of optimism that this offense was going to look different with Bruce arians in the Number one criticism I've kind of read in the last few days is with Jamis Winston the turnovers, it looked very much the same.

So seeing if they can find a way to to claw back here and get a win, it's going to be important for setting the tempo for their season. And on the other side of it, Mike, how many times we've had this conversation about Carolina playing a team tooth and nail right down to the wire and just not being able to come out with the victory. They have plenty of motivation too, so in terms of Week two matchups for Thursday night football, and certainly they've improved over

the last couple of years. Um, some big implications for that division and what in a division that I think a lot of people would say it's gonna be pretty tightly contested again this season. Yeah, a lot of people were thinking that with Cam Newton coming back and being closer to full health than he was last year, that the Panthers would be a challenger to the Saint and the Falcons in that NFC South. And this is this is their opportunity to say, hey, we're going to be

right there. Because if the Panthers fall to oh and two, then everybody. You know, everybody's going to say, Okay, well, you know, hold the hype train on those guys. Yeah, it is interesting. They'll always seeing the evolution of offenses though, right, I mean Cam Newton still you know, he took a team to the super Bowl. Still an obvious top you

know NFL quarterback. But more and more you're seeing how this could easily become Christian McCaffrey's team and how dynamic he can be, no doubt, as you just illustrated with that division. Uh, they need to get him going. I mean they need to feed him and get him the ball, whether it's through the past or through the run. Um, that's a guy that could give the NFC sells a lot of problems this season. All right, Well, with that, we will call it a wrap on this edition of

Packers Unscripted. Be sure to follow all of our coverage of the team on Packers dot Com. Like us, subscribe to us on iTunes and other podcast services on Twitter. He's at West Hot I met Mike Spofford at Packers for the team account. Thanks for tuning in, everybody, See you next time.