#396 Packers Unscripted: More from the combine

earlier in the week. He actually said when he got through the pre combined meetings with the rest of his scouting staff, this offensive line crop started to look a little deeper than maybe he thought, a little stronger than maybe he thought going in. And when you look at the Packers situation, you have a starting open, an open starting spot right now at Guard. You have a veteran right tackles heading into the last year of his contract,

acting Brian Bulaga. So there's a lot for the Packers to keep an eye on and a lot of these top offensive tackles that are being talked about here. Some of the discussion is will they move inside to guard in the NFL? Do they have the versatility to do that? Packers have had some success doing that over the years. West tell us about that history. Well, the only thing you can go off of right now. Brian Godkins is one draft is as far as him in the GM seat.

And last year that was Cole Madison, who was a four years starter at right tackle, and he was gonna look like he was gonna be moving to guard in Green Bay, and obviously situations beyond their control happened. He's not here, but I think that's still the baseline for

what they're looking for here. You think of guys like t J Laying back in two thousand nine, Josh Sitting and what he did at Central Florida, moving inside, They've had a lot of success with those prototypes because a lot of times, especially at some of those smaller schools that aren't the power of fives, the best offensive lineman is playing tackle, So so that's where you' given the

opportunity to move inside. A lot of it comes down to arm reach, a lot of it comes down to how they feel that those guys will potentially fit in. But I think when you look back over the last ten fifteen years, it's one of the positions that packers have had a lot of success, whether it's keeping a guy outside like David box tr or moving someone inside to see if you can, you know, potentially give a

contribution there. Yeah, and some of the names that are being talked about here at the top of that offensive tackle draft board you have Dalton Riisner from Kansas State, Cody Ford from Oklahoma, Jonah Williams from Alabama, Greg Little from Mississippi, Andre Dillard from Washington State. Now, the discussion about moving these guys to guard, it's it's a different reason for everybody. With Williams at Alabama, it's the arm length thing that you talked about. West Reisinger from Kansas State,

he actually has the versatility in his background. He was a freshman All America center for the Wildcats in Manhattan, Kansas before moving outside. Larry, I want to get your perspective. I know you played center, but what what goes Yeah, alright, but what what goes into a guy switching positions going from tackle to guard, whether it be at the college level or the transition from college to pro as like so many things, to a large extent, it depends on

the guy. Now, longer people you mentioned arm ling, but people cut longer generally function better outside. It's just that type of game inside. The shorter guys kind of excel it's more of a leverage game and so forth. But the longer guys more apt to to find their niche on the outside. But it depends so much on a guy's adaptability. Can a guy going from playing out of tackle in college, Okay, you've got a little space to work with now, so does the defender. But you have

a little space to work with on the edge. Now you go inside and everything is like this. So it's kind of a different mindset, different approach, and you've got to be able to adapt and have that kind of versatility. And so much, as I mentioned at the start, it depends on the guy, and and so much in today's game depends on the versatility. If you are not a starter. Now the guys you talked about when teams picked them, they're talking about getting a starter. Sometimes it works, sometimes

it doesn't. But if you are not a starter, you almost have to on game day be able to play more than one position. You see the Packers do it all time, you know, when it comes to the active list, if they can shave a spot in the offensive line down a bit or two, you know, and have a swing center guard guy and a swing tackle play both sides or even better yet, like the Packers have enjoyed a number of times over the past few years where

they can have a guy play both garden tackle. When you have that kind of versatility, it eliminates the numbers of roster spots on game day you have to dedicate to the offensive line. Yeah, and we've seen with the Packers you mentioned laying and sitting with those guys did play a few times that tackle in their NFL careers. We saw JC tread Are playing at center. He kicked out to play offensive tackle in a playoff game for the Packers a few years ago. So that type of

versatility is valuable. And I think some of these offensive linemen who we heard from at the podium yesterday there on the field at Lucas Oil Stadium, going through their workouts today as we're taping this, the more they can show that they can do and and perhaps the more open they are now. Some of these guys they're a little reluctant to talk about changing because a they've done something really well their whole careers to this point. But also be tackles usually get paid more than guards, so

they want to. They want to when they get to that second contract, they want to be playing tackle. But that being said, they can improve their draft stock by showing the willingness and the ability to move around well. One of the things I love too, I mentioned David box Tr. You go back to now six years ago when David box Tyr was here, so many people are saying, this guy's a guard, maybe even a center, and he turns out to be one of the best left tackles.

People perfectly, but isn't a second, okay, fourth rounder. I don't give I don't give a dark okay first one on once he's out there on the hot corner that's left tackle for the uninitiated. He's out on the hot corner, he's going against Clay Matthews, Clay Matthews in his prime, and he stones Clay Matthews. I'm saying, I don't know where do kids from. I don't care what they say about him. He is a tackle. And you're going back

about the tackle garth thing. Tackles, they get paid more money, they're harder to find, okay, and especially on the left side. So like that, that always plays into it. And of course you know people you know, like they went up the guys if they've been playing tackle. They're thinking, well, that's the most important position, that's a highly most highly paid position. But you know, I don't know. I just had to jump in when it's true. I don't know

who said that. They did not watch practice one. It's incredible being able to project that because, as you were saying, sometimes you just don't know until you actually see these guys out there. It depends on the guy, depends on what he's gonna be able to do the next level. And a guy like bak tr he might have only weighed in two pounds here, but the chip on his

shoulder added another twenty five. And the fact that he was able to come in and have the contribution he did with this team and become the franchise left tackle that he has, I think it just gives you another another example of how the Packers have been able to find those type of players in the fourth and fifth round when a lot of teams, if you go back to that thirteen draft, they spent really big high draft capital to get a left tackle and didn't even end

up with one in the long run. Yeah, And the point being, with these supposed faults in these guys games that they're talking about that might force them to move inside to guard. It doesn't mean they're not going to succeed at tackle in the NFL. This is where these guys. Every single thing about their build up, their makeup, and everything is is scrutinized to the nth degree. That's just part of what goes on here. But as far as day one, as you guys mentioned, you have to be

able to do it all. David back tr was a right tackle in that scrimmage back in two thousand and thirteen before Brian balogators a c L. He ends up moving into left tackle and starting ever since. You never know until you finally see it. Yeah. Well, another position that we heard from as far as the prospects meeting the media were the running backs, and one young running back in particular, fullback alec Ingold West. He's a Green

Bay native of Bayport High School graduate. You covered in school, high school career an unbiased opinion, several alumni, but young Ingold went from Bayport to the University of Wisconsin. Now he is here. He's actually the only fullback who was invited to the scouting combine. You talked to him yesterday. West, why don't you fill us in on his story. So

here's what's fun about this. This This is one of the last guys that I covered in high school when I was over at my previous job with the Green Bay Press Gazette. And one of the big reasons coming out of high school he wanted to play quarterback. He was going to go to Northern Illinois. He wanted to play skill position. He wanted to play something that he could potentially have a future and as far as the NFL. Then Paul Chris goes back to Wisconsin recruits him to

Wisconsin as an athlete. He's gonna play linebacker now, right, Okay, good future in the NFL. After one week a scout team practice that he had going into the Alabama game, Chris pulls him aside. He goes, how would you feel about playing running back? More specifically fullback? Not exactly the position you think about when you're thinking of NFL. But he told him very simply, you this could be a

job for you. And as it turned out, I mean, obviously he had to work his way up that depth chart, but to be in this position now twenty one touchdowns in four years at Wisconsin. His dad even told him when he committed don't be surprised if you don't score a touchdown again and now and now yeah exactly, so, uh, trying to become the second kid from Ayport to make it first since Dan Benning. Uh. And it's it's an intriguing thing to watch because for the Green Bay area

it doesn't always happen. As far as the metro area is concerned. The last Green Bay High school graduate that was invited to the combine was Mike Taylor in two thousand thirteen. So it's been a bit well, and you mentioned Dan Benning from Bayport. Just to tell everyone how small a world it is. I covered Dan Benning during his high school career. Alec Ingold was a state wrestling champion. Dan Benning was a state finalist at heavyweight in Division one. He went on to play for the Badges and then

was drafted by the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Had a very nice NFL career in his jerseys are hanging at Bayport High School. So, but getting back to the fullback spot here for the Packers, Danny Vitality was a player who was brought on to the roster last year. We heard from Matt Lafleur earlier this week, and when you look at what what he did running the offense in Tennessee, it sounds like Matt Lafleur would like to have a fullback,

but Larry. He also emphasized that that fullback has to be the right guy to do what he wants to do in his offense. Not unlike what we're talking about earlier. It depends on the guy and whether a team uses and employees a fullback to what degree they're willing to do that. It goes back to what's that fullback? Like,

what is he bringing to the party? Danny vitality In the short time he's been in Green Bay, that young fellow has some popnas block now when you were in the good old fashioned lead play and going in buddle line acker right in the mouth. He can do that. And there's something he doesn't just go up to the man. He goes through him, and you'd really like to see that. And uh, he's so he's got some pop in his box and seemed to be okay in the other areas. Don't know a bunch about it as far as carrying

the ball and receiving skills and so forth. But he's an interesting player that they brought in. He did catch a lot of passes at Northwestern in his college career, racked up a lot of catches and receiving yards. That's something he hasn't done much yet in the NFL, But we'll see what happens. And but getting back to the overall full back position, like I think guys playing it can almost force their way on the field if they

bring the right tool set with him. Hey, can we count on this guy to be a receiver on third down? Good guy picking up the blitz dependable that way? Is he a good short area, short yardage goal line type runner? Is he one of those guys? Can he play special team? So? Well? You know, a roster spot. Mean, I can remember not too long for the packer of the two fullbacks, right, So it's very dependent on what those fullbacks are as football players. Yeah. And for some reason, and maybe you

can give us some insight into this, Larry. Fullbacks in Green Bay seemed to become the fan favorites and cult heroes, whether you're talking about William Henderson or John Coon, Aaron Ripkowski. What is it about that position that the fans always seemed to gravitate. Oh, I think that's he's blue collar. Yeah, I mean Green Bay people, Wisconsin people. They appreciate the good old fashioned, blue collar, try hard guy, the guy that's gonna stick his nose in there and fight to

the finish weekend and week out. I mean, that's that's Wisconsin. And I think that's why fullbacks are always very very popular players in Green Bay and beyond. And I want to throw this into because they did try to go the h back road at the beginning of last season

in Lance kendricks I thought filled that role amicably. They tried it with Mercedes Lewis, but there's also something about a guy that's just in that six foot range, much like Alec gold Is, much like Danny vitalia Is, that just allows them, as far as their pad level, to be able to get up under blockers a little bit better. It just seemed like, even though they did try that the first half of last season, it wasn't in their wheelhouse.

It just wasn't what they're running games about. Yeah, and Wes, you also looked up in your story on Ingold how the snaps for fullbacks in the NFL. It's starting to Uh, there's there's an interesting trend here that's developing. But you wonder if with the success that a team like the New England Patriots have had with with James Devlin, if it's going to start to swing back the other way in terms of maybe the fullback isn't exactly going away in this league. There were only two fullbacks in the

NFL last year that had over two offensive snaps. It doesn't happen much, but Devlon was one of them. In three of the last four teams in the part you know, the playoffs trying to make that run of Super Bowl did have a fullback on their roster. And there was a really good quote, I believe it was from Kyle Shannahan.

If it wasn't, excuse me, but just saying that if you know, you look at that game that's Super Bowl, if they had a fullback, if if the Rams would have had somebody to sort of have a change up there, maybe the Patriots would have been able to exert their will the way they did. Actually it was Matt Lafleur who said that, and I think that's that's a really salient point, the fact that if you have somebody like that can make them make an adjustment, it can go a long way. With what you want to do with

your offensive game plan, I can certainly change things up. Well, one other thing to keep in mind here, guys, as we wrap up today's show. I know all the media is here, anybody who's anybody in the NFL is here in Indianapolis this week. But it's important and Larry had pointed this out on one of our three things videos we did when we first got to town here, and that is that you have to have the right perspective

on this event. It is one piece of the puzzle, so to speak, in a long process of scouting these players, which goes back to the scouts going to the campuses and watching them practice and going to their games and going over all the film and interviewing their coaches. Then they come here and yes they get they get to interview them, they get all the medical checks and all of those kinds of things. But uh, this is just

one piece of the pie. So for all the media talk in the media hype about certain guys and how they work out and everything like that, don't get too caught up in it. You know, there's three and some guys that end up coming here every year. But as you pointed out from day one. I mean, you look at a guy like Philip Lindsley last year ends up becoming a Pro bowler as an undrafted free agent, undrafted rookie.

Those stories are out there, and you can do forty times in vertical jumps until you're blue in the face, But the fact of the matter is it's about what you can do on the football field. Arry, I don't know about you, but I'm guessing it was your forty time that made you a two time Pro bowler. I mean, that's just the way this game is played. It's the type of things that I think that you can't always measure. So there is some of that to keep in mind.

Keep in mind what Brian Gudkin said the other day. Tape the Guy's tape, there's number one know if ands or bucks about it tape, there's number one how they played. Yeah, and we heard from We've heard from Ted Thompson over

the years as well. He always talked about how you come back from the combine and the draft board starts to shift around a little bit, that they go back and look at the tape like Larry's talking about, and then the draft board kind of shifts back to the to the way it was before, because that's really the best thing you have to go on with these players. This is a supplement to the evaluation. But what really matters is what they did on the field and what's

on video. I mean, look at a guy like Tyler Lancaster last year right now, I understand. I think he had thirty five bench reps at his prote I mean, he's a country strong kid. I mean, he's just that type of player. But I just think, you know, there's guys that don't get those invites that you know, catch and I end up becoming players in this league. It

happens every single year. That job for Goodkins, the job for his scouts right now is figuring out that balance, figuring out the Gyre Alexanders that are gonna jump out on film and the Marquis Baldes scant links and also finding those Tyler Lancasters that are kind of hidden in the rough as well. Yeah, no question about it. Well, with that, we're going to call it a wrap on this edition of Packers Unscripted from the NFL Scouting Combine. A special thanks to Larry McCarn for joining us for

a couple of episodes. West and I will have one more episode here over the weekend, probably posting on Monday on the website here from Indianapolis. With that, thanks for tuning in everybody, and we will see you next time. H