#394 Packers Unscripted: More on the coaches

shakes down west again. On the defensive side of the ball, a mixture of some holdovers and some new faces, so quickly the rundown is sticking around Jerry Montgomery on the defensive line, Jason Simmons with the defensive backs, and Ryan Downard, who was a quality control coach on the defensive side last year, is the assistant defensive backs coach to Simmons.

Then the new faces Kirk Oliver Dotty at inside linebacker, Mike Smith with the outside linebackers, the Packers and the flour deciding to split those jobs position wise into two different coaching positions, and then to defensive quality control coaches in Wendell Davis and Christian Parker. So you decide where you want to start here with that defensive Rundown West, what intrigues you the most? I think the first, first,

and foremost. In the last episode I talked about Ben Sermons getting him back, I thought was a major plus. I think being able to get Jerry Montgomery back with that defensive line group seemed like a no brainer to me. Mike Patton certainly had an idea of what he thought of his staff and what adjustments he wanted to make, and I think when you look at the season that they had with their defensive line, you can talk until the Cows come home about Kenny Clark and all of

it would be worthy. But the fact that he was able to get you know, Tyler Lancaster playing the way he did it late in the season, I thought I and Lawry made one of the biggest jumps on the entire roster um showing that he's more than just a five tech defensive end. He can play three tech. Knows there's different ways that you can utilize him. I think he's going to be a weapon in Green Bay for years to come. So I I tip my cap to

the job he did there. Certainly, Jason Simmons has been around for a number of years, got an opportunity last year to be with the secondary. Now he gets to run that room. But but let's get down to the meat and potatoes here. I think the one thing the Packers really, I don't want to say struggled with, but but one of the things that was sort of inconsistent was the outside linebackers was the pressure. Now, they did end up setting some records in terms of sacks, but

I think looking for the overall more consistent push. Can you look at Mike Smith, his history with Mike Petton coming in taking over that room now in Green Bay had a phenomenal year last year, d Ford having a breakthrough season in Kansas City. Now he gets to try his hand with Kyler Facral and whatever. This room is gonna look like they're in two thousand nineteen. Yeah, and

that was it was kind of funny. I have to admit when I first saw the announcement that Mike Smith was joined the Packers coaching staff, my MND immediately went to the former Atlanta head coach Tampa Bay defensive coordinator like Holy cow, he's not retiring different different Mike Smith

in this case. But you mentioned it last year with Kansas City d Ford having a career season with the pressure off the edge there, I know Ford ended up having that extremely unfortunate offsides lining up off sides penalty that wiped out really was the play that was going to send the Kansas City Chiefs to the Super Bowl.

But then, as I mentioned, splitting the jobs outside linebacker and inside linebacker again here Kirk Ola A. Dotty, a long time Washington Redskins assistant coach, actually two different stints in Washington, if I'm not mistaken. He was at the University of Georgia in between there, but um but had cross paths with Matt Lafleur when la Fleur was on was working with Kyle Shanahan and Mike Shanahan in Washington,

so certainly some connections there. The other thing I thought was interesting about all of a. Dotty when I was looking at his bio, he was a wide receiver at Perdue from ninety three to ninety six, which I think I'd have to go back and look for sure, but I think that's right before Drew Brees got to prey you.

So his timing was maybe just a little offer. He could have had a greater NFL career as a player, but he certainly made a name for himself as an assistant for four years older than Drew Brees, and unfortunately wasn't able to cross paths with him. But here's the other thing I really liked to I I go back, and I have a shorter time frame to work off of than you do when you look at the structure.

But I felt like some of the better years the Packers had with Dom Caper's defense was when they had a tried and true outside linebackers coach in Kevin Green, and they had Winston Moss handling their inside backers. I see a lot of that with this current set up with Mike Smith and Olive Dotti and and the other thing is too, is that both of these guys have been pretty accomplished in their careers. I mean, you look at some of the success that the Washington had in

the two thousand's and more recently. I mean, Mike Smith, what an interesting journey he's been on to be a player. Was his position coach was Petton. He ends up retiring because of injuries and oh eight gets a coaching internship with the Jets when Rex, Ryan and Petton were there, ends up being his outside linebackers coach a year later.

That's a pretty big jump. And then certainly to to move around, went to his album Out of Texas Tech, found his way to Kansas City and now reunited here and then from Olive Dotti's circumstances, has been in Washington. It's his only NFL job for sixteen years. We were talking about James Camping in the remarkable run that he was on in Green Bay and and Kirk had a

very similar run with Washington for you know, almost two decades. Well, it'll be interesting to see with Oliver Dotty and what group he's going to be working with here in Green Bay, becaus we all know about Blake Martinez and the progress that he's made over the past couple of years. Or in Burke's third round draft pick last year, didn't have

the rookie season that he was hoping for. That shoulder injury in the preseason kind of just knocked his whole progress off kilter in some respects, you might say, and Burke's ended up playing a lot more on special teams not as much on defense as the season went along, but that injury led to Antonio Morrison uh coming over from the Indianapolis Colts. He certainly made an impression as one of those hard hitter, run stopping type of inside linebackers.

And and then um, we'll see obviously what happens with Jake Ryan. He's coming back from the A c L. But he's also on an expiring contract with his rookie deal from being a twenty fifteen draft pick now expiring. So uh, some potentially some some moving and shaking, some shifting around there as far as what the Packers are going to do it inside linebacker as well as that outside linebacker with Factral coming off of a career season

with the double digit sacks. But a lot of questions as to, Okay, what's gonna happen with Clay Matthews now and and Nick Perry and and all of the uncertainty that goes into you know, how this linebacking corps is going to shape up in ten You sandwiched a gem right in the middle there, and I think it's the biggest point to make here. I think about you know, Ben's sermons when he came in and he had Eddie

Lacy and James Starts at first year. But let's be real, it was really when they drafted Aaron Jones and Jimal Williams. It's like, Okay, this is your assignment. Get the most out of these players. I look at a live a Dotti getting or in Burkes. That's his big assignment right now. Yes, you want to maximize what you have in Blake Martinez. You want to see depending on how all this other stuff shakes out with Morrison and Ryan, but Berks was

a big investment. That was a third round draft pick. Yeah, that's that's in the draft. He's still relatively new to the position, considering that he played half of his career as a defensive back as a hybrid safety, so he's learning the ins and outs of being an every down inside linebacker in this league. I really wonder Michael and again we'll have and you never know, everything is hypothetical,

but they have those warmups in Oakland. Burks hurts his shoulder, he ends up missing a month, and we've seen so many times how that can set guys back and just not being allowing them. I think Mike Daniels in two thousand twelve. I mean, Mike Daniels finished the year strong, but he was a scratcherler in the season when he was coming back off the labor surgery. So right for for Olive Dotti here and we'll we'll hopefully get a chance to talk to him soon and skit what his

thoughts are on Burks. I just look at that is that is his primary assignment right now, getting the most out of that draft pick and getting to be a contributor in this defense. Yeah, and for what it's worth, I had an interesting conversation with Burke's back in January the final open locker room. We got a chance to talk to the players before they all dispersed for their off season, and and I got a chance to talk to Burke's one on one, and and hey, he he

wasn't He didn't sugarcoat anything. He knows his rookie season didn't go the way he wanted it to. The injury certainly was a factor, but he also felt that when he got his opportunities, he should have been able to do more with them. And he flat out said to me, or I should say, I asked him a very direct question, do you feel like you need to come in your second season and prove why the Packers made the draft investment they did in you. He said absolutely that that

is the motivating force for him right now. He knows the investment the Packers made in him, and he's out to prove that he was worth it. Now. The other thing I will say, and it was interesting because I don't like to draw comparisons with players very often, but in this case, I will just say this, and talking to Burke's, the biggest thing that he felt was that when he was out there on defense, that he was still in that thinking too much stage and not just

reacting and playing well. It's a lot of what we heard from Blake Martinez after these rookie year as well. And Blake Martinez went to Stanford or in Burkes went to Vanderbilt. These are these are smart guys who they can process a lot mentally, but sometimes that can be to your detriment in this in the sense of really getting up to the speed of the NFL game when

you come from the college level. So as disappointing as Burke, as disappointed as Burke's was in his rookie season, I don't think anybody should give up on him by any means, I think he's one of those year two players to watch with the Green Bay Pack. Here's what we sometimes forget with having Blake Martinez having two back to back tackle seasons. We went into that opener in two thousand seventeen not knowing he is gonna be a three down linebacker.

That during throughout training camp, throughout the preseason, it looked like Joe Thomas was going to be the third down linebacker, and it looked like Blake Martinez might be in there

with Jake Ryan on first and second down. Lo and Behold, he ends up staying in on third downs and then he's off to the races and running at One more point I want to make about Burke's too, that I think is important to make is that when you have a season like he had, it's sometimes we get so caught up and guys just jumping in right away and having that jyr Alexander type season, there is a significant

learning curve. Regardless of what your your intellectual aptitude is, you have to be able to catch up to the speed of the game. That's the challenge that Burke is. Burke's is tackling right now and the other thing that probably didn't help him too, is with Blake Martinez being sort of entrenched in that three down role, Burk's skill set probably lends itself more to being a coverage linebacker

in terms of his base. I'm not saying he can't play first and second down, but yeah, makes sense that you're going to have more of that that road grading type inside linebacker and on first and second down like Morrison, who's gonna get after the ball carrier. That's where Burkes needs to make that jump and showing that he can be a well rounded athlete. Yeah. One one other thing I want to run past you on defense before we shift gears to special teams to defensive quality control coaches

Rndall Davis and Christian Parker. We haven't heard from Matt la Fleur about his decision making process or how all this came together. Do you have any kind of any idea. I've never seen in my thirteen years here with the Packers, I've never seen two quality control coaches on the same side of the ball. I'm just curious if you have any any insight into the rationale or the reasoning perhaps behind that. I can only read the tea leaves here. I did find it interesting that both of these gentlemen,

Wendell Davis and Christian Parker, both younger guys. They both come from an analytics background, so I wonder how much that could potentially be incorporated in this in addition to having experience as defensive coaches, and these these are SEC

guys through and through. By the way, Wendell Davis played linebacker at Arkansas, was a graduate assistant at A on a very successful University of Georgia team, and then Parker coming from Texas A and M Yeah exactly, then all also got you know, some experience there at some other

spots and and being able to round themselves out. The thing that that really jumps off the page to me here is that last year Ryan Downer was a quality control but they also had Scott McCurley as a defensive assistant in the thought in just the definition of it, Yes, it is a little unique, but you always typically have those guys that can be sort of you know, pivot

and help out different groups. I think it's gonna be interesting to see how both of these young guys developed, because, as we've seen, if Matt Lafleur follows sort of the prototype that's been here in Green Bay and you never know. Um, you know, Luke Getzi was a quality control coach. I mean you had uh Jerry fontno number yours quality control. I want to say that even Ben mc McAdoo was at one point. I mean they work their way up the ladder. This is the internship to get your foot

in the door, take advantage of it. Yeah, alrighty well, before we move on to the Special Teams West, the powerful noise canceling technology that helps NFL coaches block out eighty thou screaming fans can get you closer to the music you love. Learn more at www dot bos dot com, Slash Packers Bows the official headphones of the Green Bay Packers, and at Homer. Here in the stands, we all know that Green Bay fans give it their all and that takes a lot of energy. So grab a warm bowl

of Campbell's Chunky Soup. It's meaty goodness, feels the greatness of Packers fans everywhere. Try the delicious classic chicken noodle soup. Just visit your local supermarket and asked for Campbell's Chunky Soup. Official sup partner of the Green Bay Packers Okay, special teams West Sean meninga new special teams coordinator coming to the Packers from Vanderbilt, but also was a longtime assistant special teams coach for the Cleveland Browns, and that's where

he worked under Mike Petton when Petton was the head coach. Yeah, Maurice Strayton Um sticking around as an assistant special teams coach. And then an addition that I don't believe the Packers ever had in the McCarthy era, and that's a quality control coach specifically for special teams. And that's rain A. Stewart who is coming with men and from Vanderbilt worked worked him in a similar capacity there. Stewart actually Um does have some NFL experience coaching with the Tennessee Titans.

And then was a five year defensive back, was a fifth round pickback in had a five year career as a dB in the NFL. So UM with Menenga, I'll tell you this for those I don't have the time or the space to go through it all. You want to look at the true nomad coaching life, uh, constantly being in transition and moving around and really moving up the ladder. Sean Meninga. This is the guy who coached at a community college, he coached at a Baptist college.

The list of places that he has coached at and now here he is working his way all the way up to being the special teams coordinator of the Green Bay Packers. We don't need to go over chapter and versus to what the Packers need to fix on special teams. It was a rough year in teen all around in that respect, but um, this is this is one of the coaches who is going to be watched very closely

because of the Packers struggles in that area last year. Yeah. Absolutely, I mean they need to make a big significant stuff forward in that area. And and certainly the the Rick Goslin ratings were what they were. But the thing I really like about Meninga here, there's also a tie in with Stuart Stewart was his special team's quality control coach at Vanderbilt the last I think last season, and also

had some other exploits that he had with Vanderbilt. So there's even a connection there in terms of why you know, this gentleman is getting the opportunity with the special team's quality control the Packers actually have done over the past, they've had three coaches in that room. If you remember the year that Mike McCarthy stepped away from play calling, he actually considered himself the third guy in that room that season. Uh, you know, Joe Witt assisted with with

punt returns. Jason Simmons, even when he went over to secondary, still did some stuff. So it's not completely out of the box to have three coaches. But I think what's important is you have three guys that are all dedicated towards it. I think that shows that Matt Lafleur has as they're taking this seriously. They want to be able to improve in that area. It's also gonna be interesting to see the moves they make here and and they structure this thing. We can only go off of just

a little bit that we know about Meningah. Danny Vitally, the fullback that the Packers brought up to the active roster the end of the last season, spoke very highly of him on Twitter from their time together with the Cleveland Browns. Um Certainly Mike Petton, I'm guessing, also put in a good word there with with their past experience.

So special teams coaches are never ones that you're gonna have like ample amount of headlines to go back and read, but it does seem like this is a guy that's worked his way up the ladder and it really seems to be well positioned for this opportunity. Yeah, and this is his first time at the coordinator level at the NFL. But make no mistake, as I mentioned, with all of his coaching stops along the way, this is a guy who's been a head coach. He's been a defensive coordinator,

I believe. I don't quote me on that, I'd have to check, but he is. He has been a position coach, a coordinator, at head coach at some level somewhere along his career. He's pretty much held just about any job you could hold on a football coaching staff at the college or at least the college or the NFL level. So extremely experienced coach who worked you were just calling

him up. Worked for Chris Tabor, special teams coordinator for a number of years in Cleveland, and Meningo was his assistant and table really accomplished and well thought of in those circles. So to be able to, you know, work off of him a little bit. The other thing I like too, and this is nothing against ron Zook certainly had ample experience too, but I think there is something to be said for guys that have kind of climbed the ladder that they have and had chances to work

in different special teams units. It doesn't have to be special teams, but any type of unit. Before stepping into that job, you look at the litany of people that he's worked with in the different stops he's had. You gain knowledge, you gain an appreciation, and I also like the fact that he's coming from the college ranks, fresh

out of the college ranks. Considering the way the Packers typically historically traditionally have built their special teams, you have to be able to get the most and be able to reach those first and second year players. Now maybe they add that Jared Bush type veteran, a stalwart that can help galvanize that unit unit. I think it would

be beneficial for them. But at the same time, you have eleven guys, and those eleven guys and special teams typically aren't Davante Adams, so you have to be able to communicate with them and you know, go with the flow and the punches. That was one area I think the Packers just came up short this past year. They had injuries, they had to move positions around, and they just weren't able to keep that special teams up to

the level of need to be. At the other thing you hope for for the Packer's sake as well, maybe to get a little bit more consistency with their return units. They had to cycle in a lot of guys, particularly on punt returns. If you get Trevor Davis healthy or you find another candidate for that position, I feel you go back year after year. That's when the Packers have

been at their strongest. Yeah, I agree with you, and I think we'll see how it shakes out in terms of maybe finding a consistent return or somebody that you can rely on, somebody that the whole return unit, both punt and kickoff ken can rely on and count on, and they know they know who's back there, they know how he likes to do things and all of that.

So I think that will be a factor. But to piggyback off of your comment earlier about or in Burke's and sort of him being a key assignment on the defensive side in terms of trying to raise his game, I look at j K. Scott, the fifth round punner out of Alabama, sort of the same way. He didn't have a bad rookie season, but it wasn't probably the rookie season at the end of the day statistically that

he was hoping for. He was another guy I talked to on that final open locker room day and he he all but admitted that from a physical standpoint, he wore down a little bit as as the season went along, and that's not unusual for rookies. And I know everybody

might be saying, well, he's just the punter. Well, you know, there is something to be said for monitoring the reps and and you know, and pacing yourself, um with that skill throughout all what essentially is twenty games because he's the preseason games are no picnic for a rookie trying to you know, make his way in the NFL and get used to the bright lights and all of that

kind of stuff. So J. K. Scott had to go through all that, and by the time he got to the end of the twenty games, he was physically a little bit worn down. And the results at the end of the season we're not what we saw back in September and it wasn't just because of the weather. The weather certainly is a factor, but the j K. Scott that we were seeing in September and October, there was

a little bit of a fade there. And and he knows from a physical conditioning standpoint, it's on him to maintain his body at a certain level throughout the season.

But I'm also curious to see, with with some of the changes in the coaching staff and whatnot, and with j. K. Scott's maturity, if he becomes the punter that the Packers are certainly counting on when they spent a fifth round draft pick on The question was asked to me an inbox at the end of last week looking at the kicker position with Mason Crosby and at what point and

if they end up having to replace him. And I also made the point that Mason Crosby's thirty four, you have an inventory running around heye at forty six and still kicking, but and just signed another contract. I'm not mistaken. But but when you make a move, when you bring in someone new at a skill position, I should say, a specialist position, do you look veteran, do you look

free agency, or do you go the draft. I think the Packers made the right move and going towards j K. Scott using a draft pick to try solidifying a position that has been sort of an upheaval here the last four or five years. But the thing you have to

understand what that investment is. You're dealing with the twenty one year old man that had to go through the combine process, had to go through the pro day process, had to get himself position to be a fifth round draft pick, and then, oh, by the way, a week after you get to Green Bay, Justin Vogel has gone You're the guy taking all the reps the rest of the season. It's not an excuse. You have to be able to adapt, you have to be able to improve.

But I just think with an offseason program kind of focused on that, the strength side of things, a big frame to work off of. We saw the leg Mike, the leg talents. They're all training camp along. How much for retweeting about that. Just had to do it in games now, right, Yeah, there's no question about it. And it's about consistency across all the special teams. With regards

to cutting down on the penalties. We talked about the return game and what what some consistency could do there in terms of field position, And yeah, when you get right down to it, if you look at the unit of the special teams as a whole, it was really the penalties that impacted the Packers in the field position

game on both sides, both offensively and defensive. And to throw one more thing out there as far as just what to look for, I think this offseason training camp, I'm really curious what Meninga's philosophy is going to be with punting. The Packers for the last three years really focused on a lot of directional punting. Tim Mass, they had issues with it, Jacob Chum was somewhat inconsistent with it, just Justin Vogel was pretty shaky with it. J K. Scott has the type of accuracy to be able to

do that. I'm curious though, if that is using him to the best of his ability, I'll be very interested to see. And maybe that's just the way things are right now. But if you look at like Michael Dixon and how some of these other guys are doing it, that hasn't always been the emphasis. So I'm very curious to watch that aspect of it. Yeah, and we'll probably get a sense of that once we get to say the training camp in the preseason game, so we'll we'll

see what happens. But with that we will sign off, call it a wrap on this edition of Packers Unscripted, and we will next see you from the NFL Scouting Combine in Indianapolis in a couple of weeks. We're gonna be doing some unscripted shows from the Convention Center in in Indy. Will be there for a handful of days and uh talking everything and anything about prospects. And we're going to get a chance to get press conferences with Matt la Fleur, Bryan Goods, all sorts of news going

on in Indie. Who needs to be in the Bahamas, Mike, when you can be in Indianapolis at the end of February, that's what I want to know. All Right, there we go, But that's when we will see you next. In the meantime, you can follow him on Twitter at west Hot I'm at Mike Spofford at Packers for the team account. Thanks for tuning in, everybody, and we will see you next time.