#362 Packers Unscripted: Health and high scores

Packers Thursday night game last week in Seattle. Jimmy Graham with an injured thumb, sounds like he's going to try to work on some different splints or different things on his hand to be able to try to play. So some potential good news there. But Mike Daniels with his foot injury that knocked him out of the tail end of that Seattle game, it sounds like he's going to

be out a minimum of a few weeks. Yeah, it's tough news on that regard, because, as I was saying last week, I thought, even if the numbers weren't gaudy, I felt like Daniels was having a really good season, and you see what his absence does, sort of the domino effect with that defense. I mean that's such a great one two punch they have in those nickel and dime packages with him and Kenny Clark right now, and obviously is a big contributor to their run base package

as well. But from Jimmy Graham's regard, it's interesting, I kind of had forgotten about this, but the Packers have been in this position before, the tight end. Richard Rogers played through a broken finger a few years back. I forgot all about now. It wasn't a thumb. I think it was an index finger or something like that. But so I don't know the difference there, what makes it more difficult through how you have to condition that, But it has happened before that the Packers have had a

tight end play through it. He just played with a splint. It wasn't like he had to put a club on there anything, at least not that I remember. Mitchell Henry did play with the club. But be that as it may, Uh, you know, Jimmy Graham wanting a tough one out for the team here certainly a big part of this offense and what they're trying to do. So if he can make a go of it, you know, that would be

pretty big for this uh, this offense moving forward. Yeah, and it's really too bad to see Mike Daniels go down because I know some of the fans have been wondering, like where are the sacks and where the big plays with Daniels. But I think what you said is really the key. It's how Kenny Clark and Mike Daniels have worked in tandem on the interior of that defensive line, particularly against the run. And we know Seattle, you know, number one rushing offense in the league. That was going

to be a tough task regardless. And really the Packers did a did an okay job overall, uh, you know, until down the stretch really in in the fourth quarter there. And I should just clarify as well, because I've reported it incorrectly. We said it incorrectly on the show yesterday. The final drive after the Packers punted on fourth and two in Seattle, Kenny Clark actually was on the fields. It was only well, it's just as much on me

as well. Mike Daniels was out of the game and Kenny Clark had left the game brief flee But actually for all of those plays after the fourth and two punt, Kenny Clark was on the field to try to stop the Seattle run offense there. So I just wanted to clarify the facts and make sure that that's out there, don't straight. Yeah, I don't know whether that would influence anybody's decision on the whole fourth and two, but we just want to make sure that we're factually correct as

to what happened. Um. But I do think this, uh, this defensive front, which really when you look at how Kyler Facral has come on and some of the other things that are going on, this defensive front is gonna miss Mike Daniels West and you know, obviously the Packers backs are up against it here. No more margin for air in terms of this season, and this is a big loss. Yeah. And the one thing that's I think sums up Mike daniels game the best ever since the

very beginning, is a fact. I don't even know if you realize this, but I believe he's a half sack or a full sack away from breaking the franchise record by sacks by defensive tackle. That's right. Yeah, you had mentioned that earlier this season. He's I believe tied right now with Colin Jenkins for that at twenty nine. Just a steady, consistent presence. His production isn't just like it came in one year and then that's what you had

and then you had a different player. Besides that, he's been the same guy from day one, And you mentioned it was such a great point, probably if we rank our top ten points of the two thousand eighteen season. When going into that game against the Patriots, you said, this is where Kenny Clark could potentially be double team. This is where they can be putting a heavier emphasis on stopping him. Mike Daniels comes up with a sack in those opportunities, so not having him there certainly Dean

Lawrie's available. I think Tyler Lancaster has done some good things on Trevias Adams is a former third round pick. But Mike Daniels, there's a reason why he was playing as much as he's playing this season. And the other reality is they've already lost Mohammed Wilkerson, now you lose Daniels. Those are your two most experienced guys in the room.

You know, you get really young at that position beyond that right now, Yeah, Well, no other updates as of yet on some of the guys in the secondary, as far as Bashad Breland, who dropped out of the Seattle game when the growing injury flared up again. Ray and Green ended up bowing out of the Seattle game. Kevin King did not play, spoke with reporters, obviously kind of itching to get back out there, but but no definitive

word on where he is. Will find out Wednesday at practice if he's able to get back on the field. Same with Randall Cobb, who has been dealing off and on for quite a while now with the hamstring injury. So further updates I guess later in the week on that. But getting back to Jimmy Graham and the offense with the tight end position, Um, that was a heck of a play, a heck of a first catch of the career for Robert Tanyan there in Seattle. And uh, this

guy's got such an interesting story. Where say, you know that we talk about undrafted guys and their backstories and whatnot all along, but there's something, there's something about this guy's story that just kind of makes you smile. It does. And I was talking to him about this in the locker room on Monday while you were in the Hedge

coaches news conference. And the thing that's interesting about Tanya and in the position, and he's been in with the Packers right now, is the fact that they decided to keep four tight ends, and deservedly so. Uh. Aaron Rodgers has even said it, calling him Bobby. I mean, Bobby deserved a spot on that roster. He earned it. And when he considered he was brought in in December, was still a raw quarterback transitioned into receiver, transitioned into a

tight end. Uh, there was a long way that he had to go with Brian Angelico and developing his talent. But then you add Jimmy Graham, and you add Marcedes Lewis along with having Lance Kendricks back. It's over three hundred and forty NFL starts among the three of them, over twenty seven NFL season, six Pro Bowls. However, you want to slice it, a lot of production in this league.

And then you have Robertsanian, who was a lightly recruited UH alumnus of Indiana State, the first guy, the first Sycamore to make an NFL opening fifty three man roster since two thousand. I mean, Mercedes Lewis was you know, when he got drafted in the first round two thousand six, Tan was twelve. I mean, it's is things like that that it really puts into perspective how far he's come, uh and and to be able to make it in

this uh the spot. And you know, over the last few months talking with Lance kendricks I, talked with Marcedes Lewis after the game on Sunday, These guys are truly happy for him. Just and if you if you know tany if you watch him in the locker room, he's a very unassuming personality. You know, he just goes about his business day in and day out, just tries to do whatever he's asked to do. He doesn't complain about playing time. If he gets three snaps, those are the

biggest three snaps of his season. And you can just tell how much him making that play meant to them as a position. Yeah, and it's interesting here too, West because we talk about how the Packers seem to find these undrafted guys here and there throughout, you know, the last several years, there are always young ones that emerge. And it's interesting in this particular case because it's a story like Tanyan's that attracts the undrafted free agents to

Green Bay. They have the pick of the litter, so to speak. They have opportunities, maybe multiple offers, to go different places. Because this is a young guy. You mentioned the school Indiana State not not a college football program with a huge pedigree producing NFL players, and he comes in at a position where the Packers have three established veteran guys who are probably not going to be moved out of their positions. Yet he was given an opportunity.

He took advantage of that opportunity, and he earned a roster spot, and they gave him that roster spot because he had earned it regardless of the other guys who were at the position. Those are the kinds of things that agents that young players they noticed that. They notice how teams handle those situations. Now that doesn't mean it always works out for everybody, but in this particular case, this is one that this is one that that gets noticed.

I was talking remember that story I wrote Antonian back in September, And I don't know if I included this this tidbit in the story or not, but I was talking with his dad, Big Bob, his dad all right, and uh in his mom Tammy and they recalled sitting down and believe it was with Jack Becta, who was the agent for a number of different Packer players but

also the agent for Tanyan. And Becta they got attached to him because I believe he was also representing C. J. Fedorowitz, and Fedorowitz and Tanyan had a history veteran agent in this league, veteran agent this league, and he sat down with him when when Tanyan was coming down and they signed with him going into the draft, and he explained to him, you know what this path is like for undrafted players, how nothing is guaranteed and ultimately you have

to have patience. But after he and he needed it because he got cut by Detroit and it wasn't like like it was like right down to the wire. He basically knew going into that final round of cuts he didn't get a lot of chances to play. He knew he was going to be use like the six or seven tight down on the depth chart. He knew his

time was up there. But to keep that mentality and when he ultimately signed with the Packers, he listening to his parents even though they have no understanding of how the NFL really works, right, But they knew the opportunity he was coming into in Green Bay and that he was going to get a fair shake to develop his talent and to show that. Okay, regardless of if you are Lance Kendrick's former consensus All American, former second round draft pick, or you're Robert Tanyan, you're going to give

a chance to to really prove yourself. Tanyan got that, and I think the biggest thing for him was, yes, he signed that futures contract in January, but you and I both know how these things work. Mike, guys get held over from the practice squad across the NFL. It doesn't mean you're making a roster doesn't mean you're making

it to training camp. Because you signed free agents, you get your draft class, you get another crop of undrafted rookies very quickly do they turn through those type of players. Tanyan held On got two touchdowns in the preseason and then ends up making a really big impact when he came back. He put in the time, he added the weight, he did everything he needed to do. If Jimmy Graham plays, who knows when he's going to get his next substantial

opportunity on offense. But the fact that he did get that fifty four yard of the fact he did everything right on the scrambled drill went back to the sign line and got the praise from Aaron Rodgers. It's gonna go a long way in developing that trust, not just with Rogers, but with these offensive coaches to know that when they need to count on that guy, he's going

to be up to the challenge. Yeah, And he said it himself that it's not about getting ready for the opportunity, it's about being ready for it, so you don't have to get ready. And obviously, with Jimmy Graham, hats off to him if he tries to play and can still hopefully produce for the Packers, but with an injury like that, he could end up having to bow out of a game at any time and all of a sudden, tany

and might might be the guy who gets called. And it's a big credit to Tony that Mike McCarthy stepped right up and said, hey, he's ready, because we know, we know how you can read between the lines. If he wasn't ready, they're not gonna be saying those type of things. They're gonna talk about special teams are gonna be talking about him earning the opportunity. No, I mean there's confidence now that if Tanya needs to be in there,

he needs to be in there. And he even said, you know he does he still get nerves when he's in a huddle with Aaron Rodgers. Absolutely, But I think if you ask Rogers that, I think if you ask any player that you want those nerves because if you're not nervous as a rookie or first year player being with Rogers, why are you there? It means a lot to Tany And I think so far this season he's proven it. Yeah, all right, Well, a little bit of sponsor here, Business West, and I'm gonna double up just

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a great day of Thanksgiving football. But the Monday Night football heading into Thanksgiving football was one that will not be soon forgotten. Fifty four to fifty one, the Rams over the Chiefs, the third highest scoring NFL game in history and the highest scoring Monday Night game in NFL history, beating a thirty five year old record that the Packers held from the Green Bay Washington game back in three which was two days after my eleventh birthday October sevente

the Packers beat the Washington Redskins. Points had been the all time record on Monday Night football. This one beats it by ten, and holy cow, I don't even know where to start with this. I know you have some strong feelings about this one. I have some strong feelings. First and foremost, though, what are the Vegas odds right now? On Mark Murphy bringing this up on Murphy takes five

next month for the first Saturday. He always likes to talk about that, that Washington Packers game he gets he he gets asked about that by fans more than anything else, I think, because he was the starting safety from the defending Super Bowl champion Washington team then. And uh and the ninety five points ironically should have been if the reigning NFL m v P Mark Moseley makes the kick at the end, the Redskins would have won. It would

have been points. But anyway, is there anything better than eighties football where a kicker was an m v P. Yeah, the kicker was the m v P of the league. What more could ask? Awesome? All right? As far as this game, yeah, I mean, okay, first full looks, full disclosure. I ended up winning my fantasy football game, just running away with it because Tyreek hilled. I mean, the Los Angeles had no answer for him whatsoever. But here's the

other thing about this. Anybody that complains about the Packers out running the ball enough, I hope you watched this game on Monday night because you know, spoiler alert, this is what the entire league is doing at this point. I mean, Kareem Hunting and Todd Gurley, what do they have like twenty carries among between the two of them, twenty six together. It's very exciting, Michael. I'm sure people loved it. I'm sure they were on the edge of their seat, all who's going to score now? But we've

seen two of these games this year with Kansas City. Now, if you go back to the Patriots game, it's fun. Everyone loves scoring. But I'm old school, right, I'm an old millennial. I'm on the upper echelon of that, right. I love defense. There was no defense to be had in this game whatsoever. It was either the defense has made a big play as in scoring a touchdown, because I think there were three defensive touchdowns in the game. Defenses are either making a big play to score points themselves,

or there was just no resistance whatsoever. You know, I don't know, but quite frankly, this is this is what you get when you're going to protect quarterbacks, as much as the league wants to protect quarterbacks, when you're going to have all of these rules about defenseless receivers, and you know, and I get it that a lot of this is is safety oriented and all that kind of stuff.

But what defense has always had going for them was that little bit of intimidation because you could you could hit a guy, you know, you could, you could send a message here and there. That's what That's why in the in the seventies, you know, in the old Raiders, Raiders, Steelers Classic a f C type games in the seventies, you didn't have scores like this because the game was played differently. I'll tell you a little story, Michael. Okay, my son is eleven months old now, and he's starting

to develop, like he's starting to think a little bit more. Right, My brother and sister in law have two cats. One of them's clawed and one of them's D Clause. Right, which one do you think my son messes with? You know, you're not messing with the Claude cat. You're gonna go after the D Claude cat. And I think to some extent, that's what you're seeing with the NFL. Now, hey, listen, you still have to be able to complete the passes.

You still have to be able to move with rhythm and timing, and there's other teams in the league that are struggling struggling offensively. So I'm not gonna hate on Kansas City or l A, both prolific offenses this season from putting up points. It's fine, I get that, but it is really interesting that Kansas City statistically is gonna end up having one of the worst defenses in NFL history this year just with the amount of points and the amount of yards that it's allowed. It is what

it is. I think ultimately, as exciting as these games are, the one thing the playoffs does well with having the single game format is you're gonna see who the best teams are. Who's going to be the teams that offensively can still push the ball but also have performances like you know Philadelphia had leading up to the Super Bowl, where you can win close games. And that's gonna be something I'll have my eye on because even though these are two really high scoring teams, you know, how do

they match up with New Orleans? You know, if New Orleans puts up points like that, I'm curious to see. Well. And the other thing too, is I was reading another article because there was a little bit of a controversy with how the NFL sort of assembled a playoff type all star afficiating crew for this game, But then there were twenty six flags that were thrown, including penalties that

were declined. I'll just say this west as far as the way the game is played these days, I'm reminded every Saturday when I get an opportunity to watch college football that illegal contact is a penalty that doesn't exist in college football. You can put your hands on a receiver, you can bump them, you can make contact with them until the ball is in the air. In the NFL, you just have that five You just have that five

yard zone. Now in college they can't grab them, they can't grab their jerseys and yank them around and stuff. That's defensive holding. But in the NFL, man, it is just getting it's getting really really hard to play defense when you have when you have quarterbacks with the with the arm, talent, the accuracy and all that. These guys like golf in the homes that we saw on Monday Night football, Um, they're just they're just gonna be tough

to stop. Well, And it's a great point you make, because it's not only getting hard to, you know, to play defense. But it's getting hard to referee and officiate that type of contact with any kind of regularity because everything is just a single instance, you know, so what is the statue? And it almost in some ways it does sort of remind you of an umpire behind a you know, behind a catcher, and you've got to figure out what the strike zone is looking like that night

and contour yourself to it. Although there's a number of different eyes looking at at this particular play, um, it is what it is. I think from a when the night ended, I was looking at Twitter and everybody for the most part, was unilaterally just praising the game and the excitement and this is make this game never end and and that's cool. But as I said when I came into the office on Tuesday morning, I covered the Arena Football League for five years, and I'm not trying

to say that this is what this is. But I remember some of the better games that I watched back then. We're the ones that I was like, okay, when the defense actually does make a stop, when it actually does make a play, and I just I really don't want another Super Bowl where it's just the highest scoring super Bowl ever the most yards. Yeah, I agree with We'll

see where the season takes us. But again, that's the beautiful thing about the NFL is that you get a number of different styles at a number of different philosophies. Which style philosophy is gonna best compliment your talent on the field, and that's ultimately who's going to win that championship. Yeah, and you wonder when when I look at a game like this and you talk about what happened in the Super Bowl last year, what it comes what it's coming down to for defense in this league is to make

a big play at the end the time. It's not about it's not about what happens in the first three quarters. If your defense can make a big play for you in the fourth quarter, that can be the difference between winning and losing. I go back to too every day, Michael. I go back and I replay that two thousand eleven Packers season in my head for that reason, because I think that defense got a pretty bad rap. I mean, yeah, I gave up a ton of yards, but they were

also putting up a ton offensively. But they ended up leading the league in interceptions. That a ton of a ton of turnovers that helped out that offense that was piling up. So I still and I agree with Mike what Mike Petton said. I don't think total yard is in two thousand and eighteen is how you need to measure the top ten defense and top ten offense in the league. But but that being said, it's about making plays, and it just so happened in this particular game, you know,

with the way it shook out. You know, the Rams made enough of them in in Kansas City turned the ball over one too many times and that was a difference. All right. With that, we will call it a wrap on this edition of Packers Unscripted. Be sure to follow all of our coverage of the team on Packers dot com on Twitter, He's at west Hod I'm at Mike Spofford at Packers for the team account. Thanks for tuning in, everybody, We'll see you next time.