#325 Packers Unscripted: Moving forward

rear view mirror, but it hasn't quite disappeared yet. Because for anybody who thought that the NFL might come out and say, well, you know that play by Clay Matthews, that wasn't exactly what we had in mind in terms of roughing the passer, well it turns out it's exactly what the NFL had in mind for roughing the pastor because that play as well as the one by Eric they hit by Eric kendricks On Aaron Rodgers is at the end of the first half, which was just as questionable,

are both being used now by the NFL is examples on tape that they are distributing to teams around the league to say this is what you are not supposed to do when you hit the quarterback. I don't know about you, but I was floored when I saw that. Yeah, um, this reminds me of the old line my dad used to tell me when I was a kid, which was don't confuse the confused. It was really funny. Mike, you and I both obviously do the inbox. I I referenced

it frequently. I don't know what it was like for vic in two thousand and twelve after the fail Mary, but I mean the amount of comments, in questions and and toat takes that people have been submitting, it's blown me away. I guess that I probably got through maybe a quarter of the total submissions for the for the addition that we did on Tuesday morning. Yeah, the inboxes overflowing,

and the only understandably so. Yeah. The only thing that I keep coming back to is, uh, how the NFL has such a stringent view of this Al River n the league office, what they believe is roughing the passer. But then you have Dean Blandino, who I think you would admit was probably the first of the I don't want to call him celebrity officials, but I mean he was the focal point of this thing for a while

when he was the head of officiating. He has an entirely different opinion of and Mike Pereira as well, who was who was the Dean Blandino before Blandino took over. So my issue here isn't even with the call anymore. It's with the fact that you have all these guys who have held the office of the head of officiating and there isn't a consensus, and that concerns me. Yeah, it is, And I don't know west to me what

I have a problem with. I think in trying to break this down into the into the simplest terms, what I have a problem with is the way anybody who is teaching junior high football and kids are putting on pads for the same time. If you are coaching how to tackle a ball carrier, you wrap up, you have to get their legs off the ground to make sure you get them on the ground. Now, obviously there are things that you can do within that that would be

considered unnecessary roughness. There are ways in which you can rough up a player that is not necessary. But what Eric Kendricks and Clay Matthews did, if it's not against the quarterback, it is a form tackle that is exactly how you're supposed to teach and coach the game. So and I understand quarterbacks need to be treated differently for the sake of the league and the television ratings and

the competitiveness and everything else about that. But this is going a little bit too far because because what those guys did in that Packers Vikings game, if they do that, if they do that against any other player carrying the football, that is a four star a plus tackle, because that

is exactly how you're supposed to do it. Yeah. Absolutely, And I was really pleased that Mike McCarthy had mentioned Eric Kendricks too and his I guess unnecessary roughnest penalty on Aaron Rodgers because you and I have been saying this since game day. It wasn't just the Matthews play, it was the Kendricks one as well. That was pretty questionable. Uh. And and I think it creates, you know, sort of

this confusion. This Uh, it's just an air of uncertainty that you do not want to have when you're trying to play as fast as possible, as clean as possible, but trying to play the game fast. The part I'm struggling with the most right now as we get into

now week three and we move forward, is that. And I still at this point in time, have not seen the officiating video I'm very interested the league sends it out, it's available to the media, I'm really interested to watch it because this is how this isn't a precedent for Week two. This is the precedent for the rest of the season and how this thing is going to be called.

And uh for a for a pass rusher to be in a spot right now that they have so many different thoughts going through their head when traditionally it was just getting the quarterback. Mike McCarthy put it as well as I think you can put it. You want to protect the quarterback. Everybody's on board with protecting the quarterback. That's a necessity for the league, but you also don't want to create a comparative competitive disadvantage for the defense. And I don't know, Mike, but that kind of what

this smells like right now. Yeah, And as McCarthy suggested, not all the variables are being taken into account here, because you know, he even said, when when a quarterback is throwing a ball, especially throwing a deep ball as in the case with with Cousins on the past that Jayer Alexander intercepted, you know, there's a lot of force, there's a lot of momentum of the quarterback's body. Well, you know he's gonna be a little lighter on his feet at that point, and then if contact happens, yeah,

his feet are going to be off the ground. But that doesn't mean that the guy who's hitting him is trying to lift and drive him into the ground. That's just that's sort of what naturally happens in the low of these athletes doing what they do and trying to do their jobs. So, as McCarthy said, and I agree with you, I thought he put it very succinctly and

very clearly. There there are some variables that aren't being considered here in the application of this, and the league needs to get to the bottom of it and needs to provide some kind of clarity because otherwise, and I don't mean to take this to the absurd extreme, but otherwise, I don't know what you tell a defensive player to do when he gets to the quarterback, aside then from wrap your arms around him in a bear hug, hold him up and wait for the official to blow the whistle,

because that is the only way you can guarantee yourself that you're not going to be called for roughing or get a penalty or get a fine or whatever else goes along with it. Um and and hey, these these players hate it when those flags come out. They hate it when their pocketbooks get hit for this kind of stuff. And uh, I'm not sure what they're going to do

and how they go forward from here. It's very interesting because as I went back and watched the game, there basically is one technique right now that appears to be fully legal, no question about it, when it comes to sack in the quarterback. And we saw it on both sides of the ball in that game, which is kind of just bulldozing over the quarterback in the quarterback basically

turtling up. That's kind of what happened on the Kenny Clark one, and it's what happened on a couple of the Aaron Rodgers ones when he wasn't able to escape the pocket. The sack, you know, the defender basically goes over the top of the quarterback, the quarterback turtles up and and that's a sack. If if it's not that, I mean, there's so you can't hit him in the head,

you can't hit him too low in the legs. And now we're talking about the core of the body where if you're putting your head down to attack the quarterback in a clean fashion, moving your head to the side, you don't know what he's doing with that football. I don't know. Yeah. Well, and and that's what Mike Daniels ran into because he gets right in there. He's still got a blocker working on him, but he he gets

enough of an escape to possibly get to Cousins. But then Cousins pump fakes with the ball and Daniels thinks the ball is gone. I can't take this guy and throw him on the ground because I'm going to get a penalty and a fine and everything else. Well, then Cousin still has the ball, avoids a ten yard loss and gets back to the line of scrimmage. That's not football either, That's that's not how this is supposed to go.

So I know we're gonna be talking about this, I think, for for a long time, all season long, because they're going to continue to be plays that come up. And the more of these plays occur in the fourth quarter of close games, and we all know how many close games there are in this league, it's going to continue to be a discussion. Well, and here's The other factor this to the NFL is making an example of claim Matthews this week on Friday, the NFL will announce or

reporters will start announcing fines. If Clay Matthews gets fine, and if they're making it a point in emphasis, you can kind of, you know, connect the dots. He has the opportunity to appeal that fine. This thing's gonna keep having a domino effect going forward. So I mean, it's it's not just this game. It's gonna be week to week. Now.

I saw the other there was another game across the league that there was a player I don't know who it is, excuse me, but a guy got too rough in the pastor yes, it was a player for New Orleans and I can't think of his name at the moment, but yeah, too roughing the passer penalty. So they basically doubled his fine. And because he's essentially like a league minimum salary guy, his two fines are larger than his game check. He basically paid the NFL to play a game.

Something's not right about that. Yeah, it's nice deduction, I suppose. But anyway, well, uh, some quick little sponsor business here West. It is time to enter the Cousin Subs Best Seats in the House promotion, You and a guest could win a chance to kick back on the fifty yard line in style. Two pairs of lucky Packers fans will be chosen prior to each home game for this v I P experience. Enter daily now through December sixteen by completing

the entry form and submitting. For complete rules and eligibility, go to Packers dot com slash Best Seats cousin Subs We Believe in Better. Okay, Staying on the topic of quarterbacks for a moment, a little bit of discussion on Monday in the aftermath of the Packers VI Kings game on just how mobile Aaron Rodgers was in this game, certainly more mobile than I thought he would be taking off on the third and seven in the first quarter

up the middle, scrambling for the first down. You know, the whole crowd in Lambeau Field kind of collectively holding its breath. But as the game went on, he got more and more mobile. And in fact, when you look at say that that pass in the fourth quarter in the end zone to Davante Adams, the one that Eric Kendricks kind of ripped away and there was that collision in the end zone that might have sealed the game

for the Packers. Aaron Rodgers was you know, looked pretty close to the old Aaron Rodgers slipping out, escaping the pocket and throwing the ball on the run. That's hopefully a good sign here for the Packers going forward, because he looked like a different quarterback than in the second half against Chicago. And Mike McCarthy mentioned too, even seeing him after taking a majority of the reps on Saturday, he looked a lot more mobile. He said. He still

didn't have anything dialed up for him. There were no designed quarterback runs at all, but he did look a lot better than he did in the second half against Chicago. I thought, Lane Taylor I wrote about this for the website on Monday night, and we wrote about it on

Inbox on Tuesday morning. Tailor at such a great point when he was talking to the media on Monday and saying there was a lot of there was a big benefit to him, you know, squirming out and getting that seven yard pick up for the first down on third down, because that showed the vikings early on that you at least had to account for him. Yeah, maybe he won't be extending plays like he usually does. But you also can't just think, Okay, well, we don't need a spy

on him. You started to see the spy steak back up there again. It kept them a little bit more honest, and that opened things up a little bit more for Rogers in the passing game. His number one weapon, Mike is the fact that you don't know what he's gonna do on a give him play. He can make an adjustment at the line of scrimmage once the play develops. If things break down, he can make plays on the scrambled trill. So having his full arsenal at least being

able to showcase some of it. I think that was big for this Vikings game. And barring any setbacks with Washington Buffalo, every team that comes up on the schedule there gonna see that tape and they're gonna have to understand that. Okay, you know, Aaron Rodgers, while he maybe not is, he's still Aaron Rodgers. Yeah, He's not a statue back there in the pocket. And I agree with you. I agree with Lane Taylor that that was a factor in the game. There's no there's no question about it.

And we'll see Aaron Rodgers. He normally talks to the media on Wednesdays during the week, so tomorrow when we hear from him, we will see because I think the first question, or unless people are going to ask about the roughing, the path and stuff, but one of the first questions he will get, I think is, Okay, it's Wednesday. How do you feel this Wednesday compared to last Wednesday

when you're three days removed from the game. Because if he's feeling, if he's feeling better week to week, as as he goes through this, we know that will be a positive sign for him to to get through this and and you know, maybe whatever after getting the week off at the bye in the middle of October, you know, then maybe the real old Aaron Rodgers will be will be back to full strength after that. We'll see. Yeah, we have to see. And obviously things can change week

to week. Certainly the Packers are hoping that he can continue to make progress throughout this whole process and not have any setbacks. But as Lane Taylor also mentioned, you know, he's the kind of guy that he's he doesn't throw caution to the wind. I mean, he knows how to play football, and he knows how to play it one way, and that's to win and put everything he has on the field. It was a commendable performance. I know, Geronimo Allison, a number of guys really, you know, praised him for

for what he put out on the field. Both Taylor and McCarthy called him a warrior in separate separate interviews. So it is amazing, I think when you look at what he put himself through in sixteen, in fourteen with the lower body injuries, the soft tissue injuries last year, coming back on the early side of that timeline with the shoulder, Rogers wants to do what he has to

do to win, and this is another example of it. Yeah. Well, we promised on yesterday's show because we did not really get to our glance around the league with everything that had happened in that nine tie against the Vikings. But we did touch on the fact that only two teams in the NFC right now at two and no after two games, the Los Angeles Rams, a playoff team from a year ago defending division champions in the NFC West, and then the Tampa Bay Buccaneers with the Harvard grad

Ryan Fitzpatrick lighting things up. I think right now, based statistically, if you were to say, okay, who is the m v P of the NFL through the first two weeks would be a toss up between Patrick Mahomes from Kansas City and Ryan Fitzpatrick, the quarterback from the Buccaneers. And I don't know if before the regular season started, if anybody thought those two would be in the m v P conversation here in the middle of September, you don't know. I mean, no, nobody thought that. I got a kick

out of one thing I saw on social media. They did a Venn diagram of who's going to be the m v P, and it was Ryan fits and then Patrick, and then they had the two circles going over each other and then it merging into Patrick Mahomes. It is amazing. It's it's amazing what Mahomes has done, how efficient he's been. I think he has what a one forty three passer rating right now. It's something for Kansas City and in Fitzpatrick.

Here's the thing about Fitzpatrick. This isn't a shocker because he's had big games that Buffalo Bills with Chan Gailey there the late two thousands, early two thousand tens. They had some potent offenses, but turnovers were an issue. I think that's gonna be the big thing for Fitzpatrick is being able to limit those because everybody knows he can throw the football. He has a heck of an arm.

He's as smart as they come at the position. So to have them be able to have this success and beat the defending Super Bowl champions, obviously, it puts them in the driver's seat right now. And what has always been a very competitive NFC South, Yeah, well, nobody in the NFC North is two and oh Packers and Vikings at one oh and one. We see the Chicago Bears move up to one and one with their Monday night

victory over the Seattle Seahawks. Seattle takes another one on the chin, they fall to oh and two, and um kind of West's the same old story we've been talking about with Seattle for the last few years now, and that is they have not been able to fix that offensive line and uh, and it's a it's a grab bag back there with Russell Wilson as to whether he has will have any time to throw, whether he can get away and make plays on the run and all that.

The Bears defense, you know, kind of swallowed him up and wasn't until the fourth quarter. You know, Wilson got some things going and and then in the in the desperation to come back, he throws a pick six that that seals the game for Chicago's defense. Yeah, you can just see Russell Wilson is the NFL quarterback has to lift his team. It comes with the job description. But it just seems like every year we're seeing Wilson have to shoulder a little bit more. Uh. And and you've

seen a little bit of an erosion of the defense. Uh. They're running game in the post Marshawn Lynch era has not really been overly effective. Uh And certainly trying to, you know, get their weapons figured out there. They put a big investment into Lockett Tyler Lockett this offseason, trying to find ways to integrate him into the offense. But ultimately it is about the protection and it is about giving Russell Wilson the time he needs a throw. Because

he is a very unique quarterback. It makes a unique requirement of that offensive front. They've not been able to do it. Credit to the Chicago Bears, though. Six sacks for Vic Fangio's defense a lot of pressure on Wilson. We both know how difficult he is the sack getting

six sacks against him, that's not an easy accomplishment. And the number one thought I that went through my head as I saw some of the clips of this game was that I still, at the end of the day, think the Packers did the right thing for themselves as an organization. I think the Bears and Ryan Pace did the best made the best decision possible for their team.

I think the outlier right now is the Raiders and seeing you know, when you have a talent that that's that unique, that good, that's it's tough to give those up in the prime of their career. They did that, and now they're going to have to deal with the after effects of it. They're all in two now going into week three. Yeah, and the rest of the rest of the NFC North is going to have to deal with Khalil Mack twice a year now. The Packers. I

have one of those two out of the way. But I'll say this about the Bears, what what I'm curious to see because they're obviously feeling their way with Matt Naggie's off fense, a lot of the misdirection at sometimes it looks like a college offense. And I don't mean that as an insult. I'm saying it looks like just just all the all the trickery in some ways, with the motion and the misdirection and the read options stuff and all that it it looks like a college offense

out there. What I'm wondering is at what point are they gonna cut mits Rubisky loose and let him attack down the field. Because what I've seen from the Bears offense, and I realized it's only two games and they're making their way here with the new coaching staff in the new offense, but you can't play offense like that for sixteen games in the NFL and expect to succeed because

you have to make plays down the field. Trabinsky hasn't done it yet, and I'm not saying he can't um but whether or not he does, I think is what's going to define Chicago's offense as this season goes along. Yeah, I thought last year they were pretty conservative with him. He had six point six yards per completion. This year it's five point four, So it's actually gone down in the first two weeks of this season. I think there's a delicate Allan's there, especially when you play a quarterback.

Early you heard Patrick Mahomes talk about what he felt the benefit was. I know John Dorsey was very stringent proponent of it, letting a young quarterback sit uh and I don't think there's a right or wrong way. But Mahomes said, I mean how much he learned from watching Alex Smith on the top level quarterback in this league that's done it for a long time, and now jumping into the driver's seat as opposed to Trubisky where you do have the training wheels off at first, but the

question becomes, well when do you take them off? Because they wanted they wanted to sit Trubisky, but Mike Glennon didn't didn't get the job done, and they they had to pull the plug on it and throw them in there. So their plan just didn't work out the way they want. So the question is now is is how do you approach this Because at the end of the day, when you take a quarterback, when you trade up to take a quarterback like they did with Rubinsky, you're taking him

because of his playmaking ability. And I think right now They've been very safe with him and certainly was a game plan that allowed them to beat Seattle. But as you said, over the course of a sixteen game regular season, if you have a young quarterback that you believe in, at some point you have to kind of let, you know, loosen the reins a little bit. Yeah, And just to touch on the Detroit Lions in the NFC North before we go, they are owing two for them, a rough

start under new head coach Matt Patricia. And we'll be talking about the Lions soon enough here with the Packers heading to Detroit in a few weeks. But um, I'll just say this. I watched the highlights, the full extended highlights on NFL dot Com of the Lions game at San Francisco this uh this past weekend, and it didn't look good for a while if the Lions were down thirty in the fourth quarter. But I tell you what, Matthew Stafford in the fourth quarter, he just he just

becomes a different player. He brought those guys back, He got two touchdowns. They were at thirty to twenty seven. The defense gets a huge interception that they run back all the way into the red zone in the last two minutes where it's looking like they're at least going to tie, if not win the game, but the interception gets called back on a defensive holding penalty. Folks in Detroit just as upset about the officiating as as people

in Green Bay this week. So I just throw that out there because the Detroit Lions were on the verge of a potentially season turning type of comeback on the road against a pretty decent San Francisco team and it and it didn't work out. But I guess my point is, don't let that O and two record fool you. I know they look bad in Week one, but they were a different team in Week two. Know they were, and I think the San Francisco forty niners are a different

team going into this season. They weren't the pushovers that they were throughout most of last year before and even the year before that, you know, before the Jimmy Garoppolo era started. The thing about the Lions is there's pieces there. You can see Carrie on Johnson has a lot of talent. At what point do they kind of just dedicate to him as the running back? You know, they've been really

careful with him the first couple of weeks. I do believe he is the guy to kind of break that hundred yard rushing mark that I think they have in a class whatever years. Uh and and certainly Matthew Stafford is one of the top of the best in the league when it comes to quarterback. My biggest question is do they have enough you know, guys on defense to take them where they need to go, Because we've seen in this post Kelvin Johnson era what ever can do

with this offense. He just needs a little help. And in the times in which they've faltered, it's just not being able to get enough of those auxiliary pieces to complement what he's doing. In they don't have the defensive front that they had a handful of years ago. The and Dominquan Sioux and those guys that were really the core of of that defense they're gone and Matt Patricia's job is to is to put it back together, um and and and get them back to where they need

to be defensively to compete in the NFC North. But with that, we're going to call it a wrap on this edition of Packers Unscripted. Be sure to follow all of our coverage of the team on packers dot com on Twitter, he's still at west Hod, I'm still at Mike Spofford, and the team account is still at Packers. Thanks for tuning in, everybody, See you next time.