Hi, everybody. Welcome to Packers Unscripted from Packers dot Com. I am Mike Spofford and he is Wes Hodkowits were coming to you here from our studios at lambeau Field and West. Kind of a continuing conversation here all week on our show with lots of different topics, ideas, things that we brought back from our week in Indianapolis at the combine. You know, we talked to the head coach, the general manager, talked to lots of prospects, all of that.
One thing that is definitely worth discussing here is the a story that that um You've been working on for our website. You talked to both John Dorsey, the new GM of the Cleveland Browns, and John Schneider, the general manager of the Seattle Seahawks, about their history with Ryan Gouda Kunston, what they thought of what's going on in Green Bay now with him stepping in for Ted Thompson. What was your biggest takeaway from the comments that they
gave you about their former colleague. Yeah, the biggest takeaway I think was John Snyder and in you know, asking him exactly what his first impression was working with Brian Goodacunsten, how he really just blew him away with his knowledge of football. Obviously came from a football background with his
father and his connections at the University of Minnesota. He played Brian did at the University of Lacrosse, was basically serving as an assistant coach by the time he ended his career there due to injury, and just said, he's an all around football guy. But the interesting thing with both Dorsey and Snyder when you have this, these these big branches that round Wolf has in the scouting uh tree of the NFL. UH, just the parallels between all
these guys and how sometimes they also intersect. And really Dorsey and Snyder were the one A one b of Brian Goodacun getting his foot in the door in the NFL. Dorsey was obviously we talked about at the time in which good Acounts was hired. He was the guy who called up on the Friday night when John when Brian Goodacuns was working at the local supper club and in Lacrosse, telling him to be in Green Bay. I think it was seven eight in the morning, whatever it was, for
his internship as a packer. Scout hung up the phone right away, and then Snyder is actually the one that took Goodacuns after that internship with him down to Kansas City for his first real immersion into the full time life of an NFL scout. And and both of the guys who said glowing things to say about him and what his work and his his work ethic and his approach was on a day in, day out basis. And now,
obviously he's a competitor. I mean, there's only thirty two of these jobs, and you know there's a lot of competition for them. But at the same time, you could tell there was a great deal of pride as well and being able to really develop Goodacuns into the personnel
man that he is today. Yeah, And as I said last week on the show, the biggest impression at Goudacunts made on me in terms of his first big press conference there at the combine with national media there and then meeting with you know, groups of local reporters off to the side things like that, is he just he just looks like he belongs. It's like it looks like everything. You know, not to say he was born to do this necessarily, but you can definitely see that he's prepared
to do this. He does not look out of his element whatsoever in the leadership position. And I think scouting, I'm sure it's just like any other any other line of work. You know, everybody knows who's good at what they do. But even if you're good at what you do, it doesn't necessarily mean you can climb the ladder and be in those leadership positions. There are guys who are probably great scouts, who are not necessarily going to be able to lead an entire personnel department and lead a
football operation. Goodakoots is one of these guys that just strikes me as as um, you know, totally prepared and ready for this opportunity. Yeah, I almost look at it. I don't know if you remember these games, Mike, you into the mall at least I went to the mall back, and then you'd take the penny or the nickel or the dime you'd put in that little funnel where the quarter just said, it goes round and round and round. For Goodacus, there was twenty years of that, and every
step kind of took him a little bit closer. In these past few years he had pretty darn close. I mean, he interviewed with the San Francisco forty niners with their GM position. I know there was people that I had talked to last year that thought he was gonna get that position, and lo and behold, he ends up sticking around and it has one more year to kind of you know, being you know, deputized and have that internship
underneath Ted Thompson. But now he's in that chair, and I think seeing him at the podium, I mean that was the first question I asked when he went up. There is just how this is different than before, and for him it really isn't other than the fact that he is the forward facing you know, GM. Now he's the personnel executive that has to answer these questions as opposed to in the past when he basically just talked to the media after the Packers selected a player in
the draft room every April and May. So for him now, I think it just seems like he's ready for this moment. He's ready to be there, He's ready to be accountable for what the decisions that they're gonna make, and he also has a pretty good, you know group around him to kind of go off of as well. This is gonna be a process. Everything we saw it with Ted Thompson. We saw it with Ron Wolf even if there wasn't as many you know, cameras and social media back in
the early nineties. These guys have to learn and kind of feel out their way. But considering he still has Ted Thompson there with him, the personnel people he has around him, Rust Ball still in the organization as well, there's a lot of resources for Brian Goodicoins to do what he does best and really start to you know, make that position his own. After Ted Thompson in a thirteen year run, that is going to be up there and in one of the greatest you know moments in
Packer's history. Yeah. Well, when you talked about in the past we'd seen good Count's take the podium on draft weekend at some point to talk about a prospect. It always struck me how just how thoroughly knowledgeable he was about anybody that the Packers selected in the draft. Could have put him up at the podium to talk about any of them. They just took you know, certain ones at times. And I think one thing that will be
that will be an interesting change. Um, you know, Ted Thompson would always is always kind of the main press conference on that Thursday night when you make the first round pick. But he's he's always he's not necessarily going to you know, you know, recite chapter and verse of the guy's scouting report. Right. Well, Goodakoons, might you know, give a little bit more of that. I mean, he's got it all, you know, you know, it's all up in his head. He knows everything about, you know, any
guy that the Packers are going to choose. I think that that press conference after pick number one on that Thursday night of the draft could be pretty interesting. Yeah. I think he's going to keep a similar approach. I don't think he's gonna be like giving it away any trade secrets beforehand, but you can just see when when decisions are made. Even in this small two months that he's been in that role, his reflection in research and and obviously knowledge of players is expansive, and I think
he's gonna be willing to share that. Yeah, no doubt about it. With that, we'll go to a break back with more on Packers on scripted right after this. Welcome back to Packers Unscripted. Mike Spofford in this chair, Wes Hodkowitz in that one West getting back to a subject that we touched on, um, I guess would be a
little over a month ago now. When Mike McCarthy first introduced the coaching changes, he talked about going back to page one of the playbook with Joe Philbin and James Campen and then the other new offensive assistance and really kind of building it from scratch. I'll have to admit I thought that was maybe a bit of an exaggeration, but then revisiting the issue with Coach McCarthy at the
scouting combine in Indianapolis, he wasn't exaggerating at all. He wasn't just you know, telling some story to to to
sound good. They literally went back to page one of the playbook, you know, how to huddle up, and went over everything to make sure that that, you know, all of those basics that they're going to be teaching the players, showing the players that everything is in place, and and what struck me in that conversation with Coach McCarthy about it is that he seems to me, anyway, after a tough couple of months with having to make decisions, let coaches go hire new guys and and everything that goes
into that, he seems very you know, revitalized and re energized in a sense that that his offensive playbook. They are literally going back to page one and rebuilding it. Yeah, And I think there's two components of this that are so important. The first thing is when you've been in a role for thirteen years, um, it's only natural to want to you know, shift some stuff and make some changes. And I think the Packers have done a good job
of that periodically throughout that. I mean, you can never say that McCarthy has not been reassessing where the team stands. He does it every offseason. But you look at this coach staff. This is the big biggest structural change the Packers have made with their coaching staff perhaps ever, when you consider both the changes on the offensive and defensive
side of the ball. So you're getting in new guys, You're getting in new philosophies, and even a guy like you know, Joe Philbin, who's a big part of this process returning to Green Bay. He was upfront about it right from the get go. It's been seven years since he's been here. I mean, things change, and there's stuff that he's learned, There's philosophies that have evolved for him, and the Packers offense looks a lot different now than it did back in two thousand eleven as well, so
meshing all of those personalities together is important. But you know, during the luncheon that we had with McCarthy, that was one of the things I asked him, is that did you always know that this was going to be the plan that you wanted, you know, when he did your analysis, that you wanted to actually, you know, just go back to square one. And he said it really was a
two part pronged approach. It was going back after the season and doing his review and deciding that, but then also getting a chance to sit down with Philbin after he'd been rehired his offensive coordinator and come into the realization that this is probably the best butt forward for
this team. Yeah. And another part of it too, that that I didn't realize was part of Mike McCarthy's processes that he talked about doing a four year study on his offense, that that he's done that over the years, and with two thousand and seventeen being his twelfth year as the head coach, this was the third than four year study that he did in the off season. In terms of looking back at at a larger chunk of
things instead of just the previous season. And hey, you look at you know, the last four years, two thousand and fifteen and two thousand seventeen, two of the rougher years on offense for different reasons, but two of the rougher years on offense for the Packers. And I think going through that, that's where now he feels, Okay, yeah, it is time to go back to to square one of the playbook and and go back to the basics.
And and it's an interesting dynamic with these offensive coaches because Joe Philbin obviously has the history from McCarthy's uh, you know, first five years, so he knows the history of the offense, but then he wasn't here for some of the evolution of it, as you said, for the last six or seven years. You have someone like James Campin who has been here all the way along and knows all of the the ins and outs and the
wise as to how certain things have changed. Then you also have a new pass game coordinator, Jim Hostler, who has experienced with Philbin, having worked with him in the past, but now both of them are here together in Green Bay. Hostlers looking at a new offense, but Philbin is looking at one that he knew from the beginning, but it's changed a little bit. So there's just so many different perspectives now in that room as far as how they're building the playbook for twenty and I find it kind
of fascinating how this is all coming together. It certainly is, and I don't think I have a high enough IQ to be able to process all of it. It's just like firelights going off in my brain right now. But I think, ultimately, in the most simplistic way you could say it, it's just trying to take all of these dots that have already been connected and just bring the rest of them together because there is that working relationship.
And I said right from the beginning when announced the new coaches last month, there is a big opportunity here that even though this group hasn't been together per se, underneath one team won venue one name, a lot of
these guys have working relationships. And the biggest thing for me, I think comes back to Philbin and the fact that, yes, things have changed, but this offense, I think you can look at it statistically objectively and agree it was at its best when Joe Philbin was there with Mike McCarthy
coordinating this thing. Those two guys make each other better, and now being able to get that group back together, and the history that he also has with Aaron Rodgers, it's it's really gives you a lot of hope that this re rejuvenation, as you said, can ultimately get the Packers offense to where they want to be once again on a consistent basis. Yeah, well, a story we're definitely
going to be following all through the off season. But with that, we're going to go to a breakback with Moron Packers Unscripted right after this, Welcome back to Packers Unscripted. Mike Spofford here, West, Hodko wits over there, West, continuing our discussion with regards to the offense the offensive playbook. One of the specifics and specific players that we talked about at the combine with coach McCarthy and with Brian
Gudokuns is Time Montgomery. And I think the safest thing to say is that it does not matter or it will not matter what position Time Montgomery is listed as on the roster, whether they list him as running back or wide receiver. I think the messages that they are going to find ways to get Time Montgomery the ball and where he lines up in relation to the snap of the ball is really not the issue. Yeah, And I think Mike, we put so much emphasis on positions.
If we've learned anything over the last four years, positions really don't matter. It's about the player. And I get it. It's a fantasy football thing though too, so I understand I don't aggravating part of this whole process. I understand it from that perspective, But in the in the bigger picture, you have to realize how much it really doesn't mean what position was Jared Cook tight end, right back, played receiver, played boundary receiver, even in the slot, Morgan Burnett, Micah Hyde,
Julius Peppers, the list goes on and on. But you're right, because Time Montgomery there's a lot of value in that fantasy football thing if he's in the running back spot because you can use them there and you know, potentially be able to reap those rewards. But the thing is about it to me, from my perspective, is that Mike McCarthy, when they're sitting in on these meetings, they don't care about what position he's playing. And what he's listening at.
They care about the availability side of it. They care about the production side of it. And if there's one thing the Packers are looking for from Montgomery two thousand and eighteen is availability, because he's shown he can be the type of playmaker that can really make an impact on a football game. He's done it as a receiver, he's done it as a running back. He's done it
at every position they've put him at. And there is a huge benefit, Michael to splitting him out from the backfield and having a guy in the slot with his hands, because he has tremendous hands. So I thought the biggest takeaway from me and it's not just Montgomery, it's also Aaron Jones and Jamal Williams, Mike McCarthy. Even though I think you can use all these guys in a multitude of different ways, Mike McCarthy just wants them all to be available. He wants to have that there and and hey,
there's only so much you can do about that. But I think if you could get all three of them on the field available at the same time, the miss the matchup games and that Packers could play, Uh, it really could get a defensive coordinator's head spinning. Yeah, That's what I was gonna say is is at the end of the day, it's going to come down to the matchups and what type of matchup they feel in a certain game against a certain defense that Time Montgomery they
feel can take advantage of. And I don't want to go so far as to say that that it becomes a chess piece type of thing like we're talking about with certain defensive players, but it kind of gets close to that in a way against a certain defense or when you're looking for a certain matchup where you want to get Time Montgomery, as an example, isolated against a certain defender, against a certain linebacker or a safety or whoever that might be, and then get him the ball
in a certain way. That's where the the offensive coordinator is thinking very much along the same lines as a defensive coordinator saying, I want to get my pass rusher matched up against this blocker, you know, So that's how I'm going to scheme things so he can be one on one there and hopefully make something happen. Yeah, and I think, Mike, you look at I've said this to you before, but the Philadelphia Eagles and New England Patriots, there were eleven running backs and on those active rosters
in those games. One of the things that the Patriots have been really successful at, even if they haven't been able to find a prototypical number one back, is that in a matchup game in a week two week basis, they can roll with Dion Lewis, they could go with Rex Burkehead. You have James White, we know what his history is. Brandon Bolden just signed another contract they have and Mike what gles Gleslie whatever his name was from
Buffalo this past year. Um, all those guys gave them so many different things that defense has had to prepare for and then some of that matters, some of it didn't. And then at the end of the day, and at the end of the day, you're not wearing out any one of those guys over the course of sixteen games. So no huddle offense. The Packers want to have guys that they can just keep in there at the same time. But the more that all those guys can do, it's
gonna be for the better and for time. Montgomery, assuming everything works out with his risk coming back from that injury, this experience, Mike Receiver running back wherever they put him. That background is only going to make him that much better as a football player. Yeah. Well, and and time Montgomery not to say that he hasn't been incentivized or or certainly dedicated to what he does, but he also will be in a contract here and this is gonna be a big year for him in terms of what
sets up for the rest of his football career. Yeah. With that, we'll go to a break back with more on Packers Unscripted right after this. Welcome back to Packers Unscripted Mike Spofford alongside West, hod Kits and West Quickly, A topic I want to get to before we go
here today. We talk a lot on this show. We hear it from coaches and press conferences, at podiums, all that kind of stuff about the second year jump, a player who makes a big leap in terms of his his body type, his productivity, his his accomplishments on the
field from the first year to the second year. So a question that I raised with with coach McCarthy and India is, okay, take a look at the Packers if if you were to pick out two guys from that draft class, who really made that big second year jump in T seventeen, it's Blake Martinez and Kenny Clark. I don't think there's any disputing that. So then the question as well, after they make the big second year jump, what's next, And Coach McCarthy said, without hesitation, He's like,
next is you become a core player. You go from being the guy everybody's looking at as a young player on the rise two then you're making that transition to be a veteran player that the coaches and the personnel staff are looking at as somebody who's going to be part of the long term future of this team. And certainly Martinez and Clark are two guys who right now
are on that trajectory. And I can definitely see both of those guys becoming core players, even with a new defensive coordinator, becoming core players for a Green Bay Packers defense. I mean, if you can play, you can play. I mean, it's I'm going back to Vick Catchman's old saying it is it's really plays, not players. Are players not plays time? And then I went and mess it up. But here's the thing is, there's a few exceptions to the rule. And then Clay Matthews probably was just because of how
dynamic he was right off the base. Um, you know, b J. Raji had probably his two best seasons in the NFL in year one and year two. But look at Davante Adams, right, look at a guy like Randall Cob Jordy Nelson, Corey Linsley. The list goes on and on. Guys who really uh, Mike Daniels is probably the poster child for it. Guys who in every single season took another step forward and then once they got to that year four, we're just youth. Year three, d year four,
We're just dynamic players. You saw a quantum leap in the game of both Kenny Clark and Blake Martinez this past year. Uh, in varying degrees. I thought you kind of saw it at the beginning at the end of last season with Clark, and then Blake Martinez just blew me away with how well he played. But now it's about taking that next step. It's about Kenny Clark becoming that Mike Daniels kind of difference maker there on a day.
You know, everyday basis Blake Martinez shoring up some of the reactionary stuff, some of the coverage are responsibilities and becoming a complete inside linebacker in a league where there is such a heavy emphasis on hybrids and things like that, he needs to show that, you know what, the traditional inside linebacker has a role too. Yeah, and you mentioned the guys that the Packers have recently extended contracts of.
When you continue to make that progression into year three and year four to become a core player, then that's when the personnel department, the coaching steps says, hey, we don't even want this guy to get very close to free agency. We want to give the contract extension. We've seen it with box tr We've seen it with Adams, We've seen it with Lindsley, we saw it with daniels Um. You know all those guys. That's that's where it happens. And and you know, Martinez and Clark are two guys
on that trajectory. You have to keep it going in two thousand Alright. With that, we'll call it a wrap on this edition of Packers Unscripted. Be sure to follow all of our coverage of the team on Packers dot com on Twitter. He's at west Hod, I'm at Mike Spofford at Packers for the team account. Thanks for tuning in everybody. We'll see you next time.