What Really Is Positive Body Image?

you can say it hey outweiy fam. So. Lisa is not here today. She is at home with her sweet new baby, and I gotta say, if you haven't listened to her birthing story on her own podcast that she has called The Truthiest Life, definitely go check out that episode. It's very fascinating, interesting, shoot a great job with it.

And I'm glad that Cat can come and fill in and be my co host for today as she is a licensed therapist that is the specializes in and she's an expert in body image and eating disorders and helping navigate all of that which is perfect for today's episode because I feel very confused in the space of body positivity and the body liberation and how am I supposed to feel on my body? And I see people things doing online that seem like they're supposed to be helpful,

but then in a way they are now toxic. So Cat, you're here to clear, uh, what all this is and how we can just show up better for ourselves after seeing all the things that we see on Instagram and TikTok, and then how we can show up for others. So why do you feel like this is an important conversation? Well for many reasons, but one, there's so much information out there, and I talked about this all the time. I'm so grateful for the ability for us to get

information the way we can get it now. But there's so much information, and it's coming from a lot of different people. Some are experts, some are not, Some are well meaning, some have done research, some haven't. But it's some are trying to get likes and clicks, and they're one of the things that I want to talk about it because you're right, some people are capitalizing on something that has become popular and accepted, and then they use it and then becomes more of a revenue stream than

what it was in the beginning. So all that to say, I think we need to talk about because I get confused because even I where I have this knowledge and this education in the back of my head, I get on social media or the Internet or Google, and I'm like, wait, it's like going to web MD. It's like good compared too much information? And who do I trust? And and oftentimes when I diagnose myself with something on web m D, I not that web m D doesn't give me helpful information,

but often times I'm completely wrong. And when I seek a professional for what's happening, I realized, like, oh, because there's nuances to fect those things. And web MD wasn't created to like hurt people and scare people, but it just with put in the wrong hands, it can become a scary thing. So I just think there's a lot of information. The information changes often, and I know that I get confused. I have so many clients that come in and they're like, I want to be this, but

now should I be this? Or is it bad to say this? I heard this person say this, and now I feel shamed because I'm and so I just think we need to talk about. Okay, well, let's start with what is body positivity? Okay, So the question that I'm going to answer, actually it's what is the body positivity movement? Okay? Yes, so that is one thing. So that's that's one box

situation over here. So that is a movement that it's focused on the acceptance of all bodies, regardless of your size, your shape, your skin tone, your gender, your your physical abilities. And it kind of fights against I guess the present day beauty standards, which side I don't want to completely derail.

How Like a lot of people are following suit with this, Like in two thousand and eighteen, Miss America got rid of the swimsuit competition in an effort to be more you know, accepted with what's happening and you know, this movement, and then they recently announced that now they are no longer judging contestants on beauty, but on mental health. I don't know how they're going to gage that it's on their mental health, well, mental well being, like they're I

don't know. Listen, I'm paraphrasing the headline that I well, I read the whole article, but I just can't popped into my head and I don't have it in front of me. So if people are interested to read more, you can go google those keywords and it will come up and you can read about it. I mean, I guess it just means they're going to be judging people from the inside, like their their health. Do they take their blood pressure by stage? And then do they see

how much sleep they're getting? Well? I just are they in therapy like they like, I'm like it. Trust me, I would not win Miss America right now. Just do you do puzzles like yes, yes, what are your therapeutic activities? Are you breathing? What's your breathing exercise? So anyway derailed from that, but like, yes, society we're making a shift and there's a lot of confusion in this shift, and

I feel like we'll get there. We need guidance. But the question I would ask, and I don't know people would be honest about, ask the people that are in charge of Miss America what is the motivation behind changing that? Because what has happened is so this body positivity movement started and it started a long time ago, like it came out of the fat acceptance movement, which I think is from the nineteen sixties, so it came out of

that and it was created for one reason. Well, then that time goes by and now people are capitalizing on that and they're using it to like monetize their business. So I would ask the people of Miss America, what

is your motivation? Is it because you're seeing the benefits of looking at different parts of people's beauty whatever that actually means, or is this going to actually help you gain and and remain and keep I don't know, watchers viewership watchers, well, which then and keep your advertising revenue? Yeah a lot, Miss America Life, Yes, and and and please yeah, please people that pay for ads for their

stuff and all that. And so that is one of the issues that we're seeing that actually messes with the whole point of the body positivity movement because any company can attach to that. Let's say that I am like a weight loss supplement. I can attach to that, and I can create language that says like create a body that you can love or something like that. And it's talking about loving your body and all that, but it's

also talking about changing engine it. I love it. Yes, And if you remember, like back in the day, this is probably like I don't know, twelve to fifteen. I could be wrong. But when all those Dove commercials came out, yes, yeah, they actually got a lot of like criticism that probably most people didn't see for those ads because they created this whole campaign. But they created that campaign to self

soap okay, But it did start a conversation. Allows for people to turn on the TV and see people that didn't just look like this standard of what you know it is typically out there. It did start a conversation, and from my perspective back then, I didn't see anything wrong with it. I would play some of those commercials. I remember playing them in groups that I was doing when I was working at a treatment center. So now that we are, we are now what's well because and

it's all because of the motivation. So what we're looking at is the people that are attaching to body positivity and that movement. Are we attaching to that because that's going to help us gain money or power or followers or whatever. And is it coming from that place or is it coming from a place of what this is actually created for, which is to help empower human beings. The other thing is the language, because so many people are using it, and they're using it to benefit their

specific avenue. The language is getting shifted and changed and messed with. So what once was something that is promoted to help people, no matter what your physical ability is, no matter what you look like, no matter any of that is created to create like equality, it's shifted into this, like you should love what you look like, and you should love your cellulite, and you should love that you have this disability maybe or you should love And the

point of it is it for it not to matter. Okay, So when we bring attention to because I follow a couple of people on Instagram that highlight their cellulite and they do that, I assume so that other girls, I'll just give an example, will be like, Oh, for so many summers, I wore genes and I was sweating and burning hot because it was too embarrassed to be in shorts because I didn't want anybody to see my cellulite.

And now I'm all out there and I'm putting on shorts and I want you to be brave, but then it's being brave exactly. I know, it's a whole lot of we have to talk about it. I know, well, I'm just telling you what I see because and they're defined yes, it is like, oh wow, if she can do it, I can do it. So this is this

feeling of like being you know, quote unquote brave. So then they show like even the lighting, how in certain lighting they have no cellulight, and then today and the sunlight, bam, there's the cellulight and hey, look look at me, I have it too. And then hopefully that inspires other people to put on shorts and love their cellulite, which is awesome motivation. Okay, And I used to follow tons of

accounts like that, and that's what I'm saying. Everything shifting and we're getting new knowledge and we're starting to think more. Because my thought was if she can do it, I can do it, and if she doesn't have a problem, that I shouldn't have a wrong. But it's like, why

do I have to explain it? Right? And okay, so I want to pause, and you said you have to think for a bit, and I will challenge you if because this has required a lot of my brain power and it seems like something so simple because it's like we're talking about okay, like posting the cellulne or maybe we shouldn't be doing that and like oh, and then it just may be like, well, I don't really get what the big deal is, so I don't want to

take the time. It seems fine to me. But if you really stop to think about it, then you'll understand what Cat is saying. Because I'm still on that journey. I'm with you if you're listening right now and you're like, I don't see what the big deal is. But then when you dive into others that are out there really a part of the body positive movement, I would say, yes, there's a section of people that are like, we have to stop doing stuff like that because we have to

stop implying that something like that is ever bad. Let's say that the body positivity movement is to help create

equality within all people in all bodies. Okay, what I'm looking at with that, a lot of people might not look at because the initial reaction to a post like you're describing is like that's awesome, thank you, Yes, But what I'm looking at it is what is the messaging that's continued to be created and explain the message that I am a I'm a woman that is not a size too or zerr whatever that has cellulite, and I need to show you that I can be okay with

my cellulite, rather than why do I have to explain that? Why is that a conversation? Why if I posted a picture, are you immediately looking at the cellulit? Why can't I post a picture of myself and it just be a picture of myself? Well, because for so long people air brush cellulite and didn't show it and covered it up, you know, and then you turn the corner and there's this cellulite treatment and the cellulate cream, and so we're

normalizing it. But so we're that is not okay. So you're saying that is part of normalizing it, not part of the body positive movement. Yes it's it's not part of the body positive movement, but a lot of people are attaching themselves to it, because that's watering down the actual movement, and the movement is so separate than positive body image and negative body image, which which we'll get to.

What I wanna again say is that when we are posting things and creating a conversation, that has to be continued to have Okay, every time I post a picture of myself, I don't have to explain that I am accepting of my body. It just gets to be a thing. But right now, the immediate ideas she probably doesn't accept her body because it doesn't look like what we've been pushing for years and years and years as a perfect

or good body. And what we're trying to do now is dismantle the idea that there is a good body or a bad body. So what does a body positive movement posts look like like on TikTok or Instagram? If it's not that, because people might see that and be like, oh, body positive movement right there, showing me Celluli. So then I mean, I know you sent me a TikTok video of like Lizzo? Is she an example of doing it correctly? Lizzo is always an example of doing things. She's my

winning song on the Bobby Bones Show. What does that mean? Yes? I gotta blame it? Okay? So yes, Lizzo had put out this. I don't know how long ago this was, but she had a TikTok that obviously went viral because it's Lizzo. But can we play it? Oh? Yeah, here, let's play a hook of it? Right? Well, it's not a song or can actually just play the clip from TikTok. Actually we should give credit to the person that did it, because she I don't know if it's called duet or stitch.

She voiced over a video that Lizzo put out. So Lizzo put out, I'll set it up. Lizo put out this video. Do you guys remember there's this, like, if you are on TikTok, there's a trend where people would say, bodies that look like this, I also look like this.

Bodies that look like this also look like this, and they would show a person that probably has thin privilege to some extent contorting their body to make them either have like roles or whatever her and then an image of them also looking like they have the quotes perfect body. So this girl. Okay, so it's the Lizzo TikTok and then it's it's a duet and it's with Jordan x in dot simone. So it's like signon with an E on the end. So if you're wanting to find it,

but that is we're giving credit. Work credit is due. And here is what she had to say. Okay, so I figured out how to phrase why I don't think skinny people should be leading the body positivity movement, and I'll be using this trend as an example, except I'll be using Lizzo's video because I think she's doing everything right.

But if you watch this trend, you'll see bunch of people who are showing off their body when it's posed and quote unquote perfect, and then when it's unposed in it's imperfect relaxed date with the back rolls and the arm fat stuff like that. And the message is that to love your body how it comes, whether it's deemed as perfect or imperfect, which is definitely a super important message, except it still subscribes to the idea that there's such

thing as a perfect or an imperfect body. But what Lizzo does when she shows her body in a natural state the entire time is that she challenges the idea that there's an imperfect or an imperfect body at all. Because skinny people can more or less fluctuate between the imperfect and perfect editions of beauty, we have a harder time accepting our body and it's quote unquote imperfect way.

But because fat people are deemed imperfect all the time, they're having a conversation about dismantling the idea of a perfect body at all. Long story, short's canny. People are talking about acceptance. Fat people are talking about liberation. It's perfectly normal to be insecure. I'm insecure about my body all the time. But skinny people don't confront the fact that we're afraid of being fat or why, And until

we're ready to have that conversation, we shouldn't be in charge. Okay, So what she is talking about is the difference between maintaining that there is a good and bad, which is what a lot of good, good meaning people are. These people are not bad meaning people. I do not think they're there for doing this is I want to help people. They're so nice, And we have to remember what is what? What is my behavior perpetuating? What is the what is

this creating? What pattern of thinking? And that's that there's a good and there as there's a bad, there's a perfect and there's an imperfect body, and what we are trying to identify is that there is none. And that's the difference between liberation and acceptance. The body positivity movement is really more centered towards liberation, where we're creating equality for any type of body versus you should accept and love your body because I can have freedom from my

body and not like what my body looks like. And those all get tied in to the same thing. And that's when we mix positive body image and negative body image in with the body positivity movement. Those are two separate things. Okay, are you confused or you know, betracking people? I'm tracking because we've been talking about it for a while. But I know some people are not talking because it's hard to grasp. It's hard. It seems simple. That's why

I was saying, you have to really think. I know, but I mean just on the surface, you might be like, Okay, I get it, I understand the difference between this and this and this. But then we really think about it, you don't or I didn't, and so I would yes like for you to break it down. Okay, that's you once did this, I think on your on your in on TikTok. Well, I have a weird relationship with TikTok. I just remember you did a long time ago, and you're like, I'm gonna try to break this down in

thirty seconds or less. Here we go, and so that's what body, that's what I want you to do. There, So yeah, that was a real on my um instagram, which what is your instagram by the way, at cat dot defata. There you go, d e A just kidding. I know how to spell it, d e f A t t a cat with a k k at dot de fata. Thank you. Okay, So then we have body image work Okay, So then we have positive body image negative body image. Those are again separate from body positivity movements.

So we're moving. Okay, So we're gonna talk now about negative and positive body image separate from body positivity movement. So positive body image A lot of people think that's liking what we look like, right, right, which makes sense, it's actually not. So positive body image is separating our worth and our value from what we look like. I can have positive body image and still not like like my thighs, but then I know that my worth does

not come from my thighs. So negative body image is one not liking what your body looks like or thinking that there's something wrong with it, but then thinking that that is then directly related your worth or your value. Right, people don't like me because of my thighs or I am not going to have this happened to me because of my thighs. If only my thighs were smaller, my life would be better. Or I don't look like her,

so I don't deserve that. I'm giving you examples that have literally gone through my head at some point in my life that my body has the power to allow me to have or not have something that every human being inherently should have, love, belonging, acceptance. It's really that simple.

And the confusing part for a lot of people who come to me for body image work is they come and they have this expectation that Cat is going to teach me how to look in the mirror and like what I see as like my different body parts or my hair and my eyes or my whatever. I have no idea how to teach somebody to do that. I don't think it's possible, and I don't do that, And people at first don't like that and they're like, what

do you mean? Like what's what do you do? Then we teach you how to see you versus what you look like. So I can help somebody learn how to love themselves because they're actually starting to get to know themselves and see themselves when they look in the mirror versus just seeing all of these end quote imperfections that really aren't imperfections, because what is imperfect and perfect about a body? We've been conditioned to believe. What's that conditioned?

Conditioned literally, and that is why different cultures find different things beautiful by their standards, its conditioned. And when you think about that, you're like, oh, okay, yeah, even our country, like our you know, you see different cultures. There can be different cultures within the United States, but you have

to see how we've evolved over time. In every decade there's been a different maybe not every ten years, but there's definitely since like the twenties, and then like there's the fifties, the sixties and seventies, the nineties, like there's different and now here we are with the look it up. They'll show you a little graph that shows you how bodies and the desired quote unquote is that we're using a lot of quote. You can't see us quoting, but what the desired body looks like and it changes all

the and you can't keep time, you can't keep up. Okay. A really good example that I can give of how this has shifted in my own life, very simple is when I had negative body image. I thought to work out wearing a certain kind of outfit, I had to have a certain body and if I didn't, and I didn't deserve to wear that, like being able to work out in just like a sports bra or like biker shorts or something like that, showing your stomach if you didn't have abs. I thought that my ability to do

that depended on what my body looked like. Now that I have this idea, I have positive body. And I doesn't mean I like what my stomach looks like. But I think, and I know and I believe that if I'm hot and want to wear this outfit because I think it's cute, I get to and it doesn't mean anything. People don't get to have certain privileges in my head and my belief system based on what they look like. Now. The problem is also society is not totally caught up

with them. They're not there yet because certain certain the way you look or this size or whatever definitely gives you different privileges that other people do not have. Okay, I want to go to this because I know we wanted to talk about it earlier, but body neutrality. So before we wrap up, let's touch on that okay. So body neutrality is really something that has been debated alongside

body positivity. And I don't think I said this super clear, but body positivity is different than the body positivity movement. Body positivity is something that has been extracted from the movement, and that's where you're getting the people who are capitalizing on the movement to gain cloud followers, money, whatever it is. So body positivity says, love your body, no matter what it looks like. Body neutrality says, why are we talking about it? Stop talking about our bodies. So that's part

of the whole. I feel like that puts the bow on what we're saying. But here's the thing. I say this with hair and like empathy, and you can choose whatever you want to choose. If you want to be body positive and that works for you, go for it. If you want to be body neutrality, If you want to be on that road and it works for you, go for it. I just want you guys to be really honest about what do I feel when I'm doing this, and what is the messaging that this is sending me

and the people around me. I mean, I think that's a fair challenge. So I'm in the realm that body neutrality works better for me because I don't really find it easier possible for me to look at my body and love it no matter what it looks like. Sometimes I get really ang with it, but then I can come back to why does it matter? That says nothing

about you? You don't have to love it. You can still be a really great person and go live your life no matter what your stomach looks like today, no matter what your hair looks like, no matter what color your eyes are or the shape of your eyebrows like it doesn't matter how fast you can run if you really want to go to ability And that feels more in line to me with the positive body image being body neutral But I think what is confusing is people think that I have to pick positive body image or

body neutrality, and they're actually they're similar. It's body positivity that is not the same as body neutrality. Okay, so confusing it is because they're like the same word. I mean, we can maybe, yeah, I know, we need to come with the new words for I'm trying to quite honestly, that would be better. I'm trying to create like um with Kate Kennedy did this ven diagram for like you

need a vendit. I'm trying to create a ven diagram, but even I sit down and I'm like pulling my hair out and I'm like, oh my gosh, and then there's like new information and I'm like, my gosh. So I'll try to do it and maybe we can get that out to the world. Yeah. Ven Diagram coming soon from Cat to Fata, which I highly encourage you all to check out Cat's podcast. It's called You Need Therapy.

You should definitely subscribe so that way, when her episodes load up, boom, they pop up on your phone and there's always something amazing on there that you need to hear. You never know that episode that you might just really bring you comfort for a day. She has different guests on all the time, just kidding. I've only been a guest twice. Yeah, but I've only had like two returning guests and you're one. Oh yeah. But she has other guests that are, like you will in to experts and

stuff and written books and all that. And then Cat herself. She she does episodes you know, sometimes just her, but she is the expert and she has a lot of amazing topics and puts therapy in away. Now. It's not a replacement for therapy by any means, but you're just so good at normalizing therapy but also putting it in digestible because sometimes the jargon that people use. In my opinion, I'll listen and I have to go listen again because I don't know, but I feel like you do a

good job of explaining things. So check her out. Kat, thank you so much for joining us, and actually Kat will be on with us again next weekend as Lisa continues her new journey as being a mom. But Lisa, we'll be back very very soon, So check her out. Give her a follow on Instagram Lisa if you have not, because you need to send her a message to tell her congrats on being a mom. And she's at Lisa hame h a y I am all right. Bye,