The Wake Up Call with Dale Borchiver

Our guest is Dale Borsheverr. She is half of the Instagram account and the blog Sweats in the City, and we're here to talk to Dale about her intuitive eating journey and all the things that kind of led her to get help both internally and publicly to share that story with her followers. So welcome Dale, So excited to see you. Thank you both so much for having me. I'm so excited to be on here. I know it's in a little bit since you talked about this part

of your journey. It was very present on your Instagram account as you were moving through it, which I thought was very brave, especially a wellness blog where you're kind of expected to kind of contribute to the noise in some way. It takes bravery to say, okay, we need to pull it back here. So you entered wellness blogging and kind of found yourself in over your head when

it came to wellness trends. So how did the noise of wellness infiltrate your mind in the beginning of your career or maybe it was the middle of your career, maybe not the exact beginning. Yeah, that's exactly right. You know, when Elizabeth and I first started sweats in the City, our main goal was to review studios and that was my passion. I loved going to studios. I love the community aspects of fujiq Fitness, and our account. The original like pictures going way back, was just of the studio.

We weren't planning to be these influencer models, whatever you like to call it. As we kind of gravitated towards and then you know, we were starting to be asked to do photo shoots and modeling clothing, and I think there was a part of me that was wrongfully the way, you know, my own insecurity, my own views of the world, that I wasn't necessarily worthy of that position I had

in over my head. I'm like I don't have this like perfect Instagram body with these rock hard abs, and like, yeah, I always grew up like thin and I have a lot of thin privileged but I just didn't feel like I deserved to be in that position. Although I wasn't a fitness trainer or anything. It was my own insecurities

that were holding me back. And you know, I was comfortable wearing certain things on camera and I would generally wear like a tea and leggings, and then I had to wear crop tops and then I turned to bras and like, it just stressed me out because I myself didn't feel so comfortable, and I remember thinking, I was like, well, you know what, instead of me trying to look inward and be like a six pack of abs, that's not my value, I decided I'm going to change how I

look until I get there and that will make me feel better. So that's kind of where it started. And there was a lot of things going on in my life that made its spiral out of control, but there was that insecurity inside me that definitely sparked from all this, and I think it was just unleashing the beast, like

waiting for it to kind of come out Okay. So I feel like we have a lot of listeners that don't even realize that some of their behaviors are disordered, because again, it's just so out there in society and it's what we grow up seeing and viewing. And so for you, yeah, you didn't look inward first. You were like, oh, if I just go get this body that I quote unquote need for Instagram, then everything will be fine and

I'll be happy. So I don't want to trigger anybody with ideas of what you were doing, but I also want you to share those ideas because it also might make a lightbulb go off in some people's heads of like, oh, I kind of do that. And this is not a place where we want to call people out, and that's not the point. But I think gets important that people share their journey and when you had the wake up call, because so many of us are just brainwashed. I was

for years. I didn't realize the disservice I was doing to myself and my followers, because on your Instagram account you have followers by not being aware of how disordered my patterns were. Absolutely, I think that's a really great question because I think I was kind of tricked, not tricked, but I tricked myself into thinking I was being extremely healthy and that visible body parts meant health, and in order, once I got there, that meant that it would look

like I was extremely healthy and fit. So for me, I was an extreme denial because I wasn't abusing any pills or weighing myself. I was not even weighing myself. I wasn't throwing up. It was just extreme restriction. And at first what it started was I would say something like orthorexia. I was scared to eat outside of my house. I unfortunately took poor advice from other trainers who kind of taught me would get there. I followed certain diets that I were led to believe that were good for

my health that weren't. And for me, I think I'm already a small person, so my body fights to be at this set point weight, and in order for me to exceed that set point weight, extreme restriction had to be in place because it wasn't so easy for me to just lose a few pounds, like you know, maybe

a few, but not much more than that. So what went from being like started some health emales at home and some swaps that I thought were good for me turned into extreme fear of social situations, going out to eat food that I didn't know what was inside the ingredients. I wouldn't say calories, but I had an overall like sense of what what things were higher calories. I honestly don't even know what I was eating. But the truth is many people had to approach me about it, and

at first I was so resistant. People were like, you lost a lot of weight, and at first it was compliments, and I think it's definitely triggered me to keep going like wow, like clearly it's working and maybe I am going to be this fitness professional that I've dreamed of by people asking me what my method is. And then

it turned into okay, people are getting worried. I was getting comments on social media, and then it turned into like a full on intervention from my family that were like you got to stop this or get off of social media because this is not gonna end well if you don't get help now. So that's kind of what turned it around for me. And I was so resistant. I mean I wasn't fully resistant. I listened to them, but I was like, you don't get it, Like I am so healthy I'm doing all the workouts the other

girls are doing. I just didn't see it. I was so deep and I thought it was normal and it wasn't. And I think that was just deep denial. And there's kind of two angles of this way. I really wanted to hear your story. And number one is because you kind of transitioned very quickly from the regular person, if you will, to wellness expert, and with that came a very abrupt kind of learning of this is what you do when you're healthy. You don't eat this, you eat this.

There's a substitute for just about everything. And it starts off really, you know, exciting and positive and wow, this taste just like my favorite Da dada, And before you know it, you develop these fears of foods and you're crutching onto these foods and you won't go out of your house. And it's very easy to happen to anybody. And I think that's kind of what I want, and quickly it could happen very quickly, especially with the access to these foods that we have. And number two is

because you are an influencer who you know. I'm sure those pictures that you were posing in during that time people thought you had it all figured out. And I think it's just important when we look at anybody's photos to know that every one of us is on a journey of some kind, and it's important to just you know, not mimic what somebody else is doing or even judge them, but really, you know, figure our stuff out for ourselves.

So it sounds like your wake up call was your family really stepping in, which is powerful when you're in your mid twenties or so. Right. Yeah, absolutely, I think it took that to really make me go seek help because there was, you know, the comments. It's very easy on social media to be like, oh, these are just haters, and I completely agree haters do exist. But I knew something was up, and I think I just wouldn't admit it.

And I think, like, as you said, portraying this idea of having it all figured out is such a common theme that we see, and it's it's crazy that a lot of people who act like they haven't figured out really are are struggling. So it it definitely did take a strong wake up call. And even so, like I didn't even realize it when my parents were like, we just want you to talk to someone, we just want you to go to a dietitian. Again, like I'm not

I don't have any credentials. I was never giving advice to anyone that was not that's not what I'm certified in. Our goal was to make a fun, boutique fitness account, and I didn't want people to mimic me, but I found the people were looking to me to you know, what are you eating, what are you what supplements you're taking, what shoes are you wearing? So it was kind of became like an all encompassing thing. It wasn't just about reviewing studios anymore. It was who are you? And how

can I become that? And that was what was so much pressure for me of someone who would literally before this, I was ordering pet tie and pizza and like, I never worried about my weight. It was just not a thing. And then all of a sudden, I felt that pressure. So I want to do a little activity with you for people, because I think a lot of times when you're scrolling on Instagram, Yeah, you see this body or

that body, and you wonder what they're doing. And so let's pretend we're talking about one of your pictures that you were super proud of you finally got to where you were Like again, on the inside, you weren't feeling that great, but on the outside you're like, Yes, this is what I've been working for. Now what if and this is what I think would be amazing if this

was possible on social media. What if you see that picture but then coming out of your head was a bubble of what you were really feeling on the inside at that moment because we all double tap and then you know, comment, And when I say we, I mean the collective. That's like still part of that narrative of like what are you doing giving all the details? I want your body, even though everybody's body is completely different. But say someone is commenting like, oh my gosh, she

looks so great. I want to know all your details. But like what if that person was able to double tap your photo and then get a look inside your brain at that very moment, Like what what are some adjectives to describe what you were feeling like inside? Yeah? I love that question. I think that just my world

was so small. I would wake up, I think about food, I think about what I'm going to eat, how I'm gonna hide, what I'm gonna eat, how I'm gonna avoid a social gathering, how I'm gonna get energy to go through my class? And everything became about me restricting. I'm going to say one of the things that my friends told me, she said this about me, which was interesting.

She said, you know, you were the kind of person that would light up a room when you would come through as a friend gathering, and when you were going through this period, it was like you were there was nothing there, and I just it's it's hard for me to see because I was in it, but to have an outside perspective of people being like that wasn't dale. And when I look back, I would journal during that time, it was just like I now to this day, don't

even recognize that person. It wasn't me. So to tell someone like it's one thing to make a healthy lifestyle change and something that you feel good about and proud about and having goals is amazing, But when you take it too far and that becomes your world, it's not something to glamorize. So a lot of people want to move away from diet culture recognize that they have disordered eating or poor body image or some sort of tendencies that are not their healthiest, they don't feel like their

best self. But I think very few people work with a professional, whether that's a mental health professional or a registered dietitian. And what I see a lot on the internet is a lot of people saying I tried not dieting, intuitive eating, quitting diets, whatever, and it didn't work because X. But I think there's something very important. And we've had some amazing intuitive eating dietitians and therapists on the podcast that are great resources for anybody who wants to kind

of go back and listen to them. But what was it like to work with a professional while also, you know, never taking a break from the public eye. I worked with a team, so I had a nutritionist that eventually I went to see a dietitian. I had a therapist who specialized. Part of our specialty was in in disorders, and then I also had a doctor who specialized in that. So I know this isn't for everyone. But you don't have to be a certain weight to be to have

an E disorder. I know that for sure, but in my particular case, I had to be gaining a certain amount of weight each week, so they put me, you know, on a meal plan, and you know, at first, again I was so resistant, But I think why that was so effective for me. First of all, I think I don't know. I don't know if anyone can recover on their own. That I never imagine. Because you are fighting against your own thoughts, you need someone to guide you.

And I think my therapist did some of the best work. I think she was incredible. She really cracked down about what was going through. And and this was like two years, Like this isn't just like I went to a few therapy sessions, I'm good now, Like this was me coming back going from two times a week to a therapist two times a week, to nutritionists and a group session and to the doctor every single week to eventually every week and then every other week and then eventually you

know that kind of stuff. So it kind of was a lot of them not letting me quit. And then there was that also at the beginning especially, they told me like, we will not even continue with you and we will send you to a higher level of care if you don't do not cooperate with us. I grew up like I always followed the rules. I love to do well in school. So for me, like there was

two sides of me. There was the part that was so resistant, but the part that wanted to like impress them and do well and get my straight A. It was weird, Like I was like every time I would get away in like it was just the most stressful time. Souse. I'm like, I wanted to be proud of me, but I don't want to gain weight, And it was just this fight. But eventually they were so supportive that it

started to trickle away. And I mean, it definitely wasn't easy, but I think they had the right tools to get me out of the mindset and be that support for me. And then at one point you were very open about working with the intuitive eating Dietitian. I remember you did a ton of Q and a S on your your story. Was that kind of after the treatment plan was solidified, was this continued care? Yeah, So actually I electively decided

to do that. I originally saw nutritionist, but I felt as though, and I think this is where the intuitive eating thing is very necessary. I find that a lot of people who may choose to recover by themselves or go through things, they tied their disorder into a new a new disorder. Maybe it's not everyone, but maybe it's veganism, maybe it's inn and a fasting. Maybe they're just trying to make an excuse of how they can maintain that troll.

And with the intuitive Eater, she really got those labels away, like she had worked with me to be like there's nothing that's gonna keep you controlled, like we are just doing what's right for you. So when I was done with the nutritionists, I found I still had a lot more work to do in that area. I didn't feel like the nutritionist I was with was as intuitive as I. I was started following accounts on Instagram that we're very intuitive, and I was like, I kind of want to see

someone like that. So I ended up seeing someone who was super helpful, and we went through a program and she doesn't actually see anyone who needs treatment and weigh ins like this was kind of like after So it was really that was like the final stage. And by then I felt comfortable talking about it because I felt like I was actually implementing the things that I should

be talking about. At the beginning, I wasn't comfortable because I wasn't in a position to be talking about it because I was still so disordered, so I kind of kept that away from the public until I realized, Okay, like this is actually how I'm living my life now. And it was hard because I had this fear of what if I bounced the other way and then no one wanted to follow me because I was just promoting

junk food of time, so I was battling it. And then I was like, wait, there is this like middle ground I can find that's like healthy but also not restrictive and enjoying my life, you know, and and nourishing my body so in the best way possible. And I think you do a really good job now of kind

of showing that on your account. One of my favorite things that you do is you're really playful with food and you'll you know, find something at like I don't know, for lack of a better example here, like a gas station or like a food that you've kind of forgot about from your youth, and then you'll try them on your stories and again, like on an account where you expect the gluten free, grain free, dairy free version, you're exposing it, and whether it's for yourself or for other people,

it's a really positive example to see it and normalize it Is that intentional? Do you try to be a good role model for others? Or is that now just kind of like naturally who you are. I think now that's naturally who I am. But I do like to show both sides of the coin. I'm really careful in again like not showing everything I eat. I don't want like what I eat in a day's I don't want people to compare themselves to me. I'm also again like not certified in any way, so do people taking nutrition

advice for me? I like to show snippets of like my green juices and my smoothies too, and something at a restaurant or a new chip I found or froyo or something that's more of like a treat and and something that I'd love to enjoy. And so I think that's definitely something I'd like to show and show that you can enjoy all foods and they can all fit into your daily incake. So yeah, and I think, now that's like very telling of me. And I sometimes I forget and I am like, am I healthy? Am I not?

Am I eating enough treats? Am I not? And then I remember spending a couple of months with my family this summer and they were like, you have your dessert, you eat your greens, like they're like, wow, out like you don't go crazy when the dessert comes and have like a whole tub, but you know how to portion it.

And I was like, wow, that was honestly, so I wasn't that I need validation, but it's good to know that, like, because some of you in your own thoughts, and it's good to know that I actually find myself like living that way and people who are around me feel that I'm not to one way or the other. So I think it's kind of my life now. And I'm sure that your family and your friends they notice bad about you, but also that you're probably back to lighting up the

room when you walk in. That's so true because my sister also said that to me this summer. She was like a couple of summers ago, you came home and she was like, I honestly was like, was dale always like this? Was that? Like she she's like I started to question my own sanity. She's like, I just remember, like She's like I started to question myself because again, I was such a chatterbox growing up. I was like always in place and just again, like I had this energy and she was like, and now I see it

and it's back. And I knew that it was just like the because you were in this state, and but she was like, I honestly questioned myself many times, being like, maybe that wasn't the deal I remember. So it was very interesting to hear that from my own sister, who I speak to every single day, and you know, I haven't lived there in like a decade, in in the same cities, but it was it was really refreshing to hear that I had been brought back to life and there was a reason why I should never go back

to that stage. I feel like this right here gives people hope. If they currently feel like they don't even know themselves anymore, there's hope that you can get back to that and they are there no matter how many years it's been. Because for some people, they've been living with their eating disorder since they were a teenager, and we get emails from people in their fifties and sixties and it's been decades. And I just don't want people to think because it's been so long that they can't

get to who they really are. At the heart of things and people can get to know the real them, because yeah, I feel like I spent way too many years just in this like emptiness becau is your brain space is so preoccupied. Well, when you asked sort of fill in her bubbles of what she was thinking in that picture where she might have looked confident to an outsider.

You know, it's funny, Dale, you couldn't even come up with what your thoughts were because they were so limited and preoccupied to food, workout, hide your food, you know, whatever you said. So I found that very telling of your head space and were our headspace what it gets shrunk down to? Its kind of the best way to put it, and the main word that Dale used, because I think I was like, when I pictured the activity,

I just sprung it on you, Dale. But I was like, let's just do a rundown of adjectives, because wouldn't that be a cool feature for Instagram to add of, like if they could just do a brain scan and really see what's going on in our our messed up heads when we post something. But the adjective you did use right away was small. You felt your world felt small, and that's exactly what it is. I think that's a perfect description totally. And I think what a lot of

people forget is they're so fearful of aiming weight. But think about all the other things you've gained from that weight. Think about or I know it's not for everyone and some people's weight doesn't change and it's just their mindset. But I had to really think of all the other things I've gained. And my therapist I remember, said to me, she's like, go look back at your because I'm a writer, like I like to write bog posts, Go look back at your blog post during that time, and they sucked.

My writing was just not as good. My ideas were not as good. I just remember sometimes in sessions being like what And there were just times when things first when I was first going you know, so it was just a lot of your right the brain, your brain space is just preoccupied with that. How can you have room for anything else? And it's just you're just in fight or flight mode the whole time. And as you said,

people are in this for years. And I'm so grateful I had a quick turnaround, but a lot of people don't, and it's years of your life. And I just didn't want to to take any more of my life away, especially you know, being in my now I'm thirty but late funnies in New York City building career, like it

really shrinks your world. I feel like maybe you could offer advice to someone listening, since you did have family and friends come to you, and I know you touched on this, but maybe if you could get a little specific, because we do get emails of like, you know, I have a friend that's struggling, or a family member or a daughter or whatever, but I don't know how to bring it up to them without scaring the way or

get them getting super defensive or hurting their feelings. And honestly, that might happen no matter what, but I just would like for you to share a little bit more about how they did that with you, and even if there was resistance, if you could offer encouragement to people that might have to be the person intervening. I think it's actually you don't focus on the weight. I think people who are a disorder, they all they think about his weight, and if you tell them that they look too skinny,

they either get triggered by it. What helped me was someone saying, you know, I feel like you're not yourself. I feel like you are maybe unhappy. I feel like again these words that like your personality. I just feel like you're not the same and things seem off and to actually get me to go. And I remember my now fiance like said, he's like, you don't have to gain weight, just talk to someone, and I think that eased my fear and being like okay, like now I'll

go if they don't. Because the scariest thing for someone who was in my position was that I was gonna wake up one morning and gain all this weight. But you don't realize that when I did gain the weight, I actually gained a lot more body confidence. It was when I was at my worst point that I had

my lowest body confidence. So it's really important to not make it like you need to gain weight, you need to eat more, and just be like you you know, your personality has been different, Like why don't you talk to someone and really just kind of crack you just need to crack them open a little bit and just get to them, be like something's different, like I'm here to talk, no judgment and there you do. You have

to have some safe people you can talk to. For me, that was my fiance, some of my friends, my sister, and they just have to sympathize and understand that it's not going to make sense for that person right now.

It's not going to be so simple just eat. And I think another thing as a friend, I think the most helpful thing was going to dinner with friends who ordered like the pasta and didn't make a comment on the pasta and they just like, like, I remember I had a friend I was out for dinner and this was like in a phase when like everyone was so carb obsessed, carb demonizing, and she was like, um, actually when did the pastor like I just feel like it And I was like, and none of my friends would

do that like at that time, and I was like, oh, and I remember, like those moments were moments that really helped me in my journey and my recovery. So even just being a good example as a friend, like don't talk about diets, because I have friends all the time that would still tell me about their diet knowing it. So that's just really to be aware of that. I

love that advice. I think that's really helpful and I try and also be Now now you can be that person for other people and that's kind of the fun part of being a bit on the other side. All right, we don't want to take up too much of your time, but boutique fitness kind of isn't what it was when

you started with COVID. There isn't you know, all the places to review, and you and Elizabeth over at Sweats in the City did make a huge pivot in the last few weeks and you launched Sweat with Sweats and this I think has a lot to do with mental health in a way we can bring the joy back to exercise. So can you tell us a little bit about that and where we can find it? Yes, thank

you so much. So, Yes, we launched the platform. It is on our website, Sweats and City dot com, and Sweat with Sweats is essentially a online platform and we have live workout hostings every day with different instructors or almost every day, and we also do meditations and postural alignment classes and it's all about kind of getting the community together. And you know what we're all lacking at

home is that sense of community. There are so many options, there are so many on demand options, but it's the idea of like waking up or if it's an afternoon class and having the ability to be on with people

and experience the energy and the connection. And we also state into on demanding case you miss them, and just getting a variety of different instructors and it's kind of just all the workouts we love to do, you know, even if you can get in twenty minutes of your day, And that's just kind of what sparked it in our minds to come up with this, and it's been awesome.

Well I've gotten to try it out too, and I love that there is that meditation and that postural alignment because it really does show your expanded version of feeling confident in your body, not just you know, hit classes or just really you know, the sweaty, hardcore stuff, and

just being able to see people. I know it's been really lonely and a lot of people are experiencing disordered eating, exercise, addiction, all these things for the first time because you know, avoid was created in the past year of of really being alone and not having the endorphins that are creating and just seeing people. So I do love that community aspect of jumping on a zoom and seeing a bunch of people that you don't know, and there's something really

nice about that. Yeah, completely, and I think there's something to be said about Yeah, there was like the dream exercise addiction, but also finding that ground into being like starting your day off with mindful movement, it's such an effect on the rest of your day, Like once you do something for yourself and carve out that time because you love your body and you want to move it versus I'm going to get a sweaty hour in and not you know, skip out on food because they didn't exercise. Like,

that's not what it's about. It's more about Yeah, just exactly said, like mindful movement and feeling good in your body and your mind and just all those things. I love everything that you shared, so Dale, thank you for sharing your story with us. We'll put Sweats in the City and the new Sweats with Sweats in the show notes below. Thank you Dale for bravely telling your story. I know that wasn't easy. We love and appreciate you. Thank you so much. Yeah, that's the first time I've

ever been so open about my story. So thank you. Guys. So honored to be on the platform. Yeah, thank you, thanks for sharing it with us.