Protecting Our Daughters and Future Generations with @gabikahn.rd

today's episode focuses on mother daughter relationships. But really you don't have to be a mom to gain insight from this episode. You might be an adult with no kids, but you're a daughter who grew up with a mom that had unhealthy rhetoric or found her body or unhealthy relationship with food, and now you have to deal with that as an adult, because you know, when we learned it as kids often sticks with us and it's hard to shake. And I started dieting early. On Stashira's here,

she's in seventh grade. I probably started dieting in eight or ninth grade, which is crazy. If Stashia came home and wanted to be on a diet. I don't even know what I would do. I would think, what No, But it was just normal, I feel like for us back then, like it was just something that we did, especially in high school. Like I tried every diet under the sun, and my mom didn't really talk to me

about how that might not be healthy. Now, I carried my unhealthy diet habits with me all the way until a couple of years ago, or maybe not even maybe a year and a half ago. For being fully transparent. So Stashira has been in my life or at least here in America. Adopted her from Haiti and she got here about three years ago. And so have you seen a difference in me your mom when it comes to food in our house in the last few years, like

from when you arrived to now, Yes, I have. And do you do you like the new way that I am with food? Yes? Yes? What does that allow for? You? Allow for me to eat whatever I want? And we can keep certain foods in the house that I used to never allow. And so that was part of my problem. I thought, if I had candy in the house for my kids, then I would eat all the candy. If we had oreos in the house, I was going to eat all the oreos, so therefore they couldn't have candy

and oreos because I couldn't have candy and oreos. And also I had lumped my foods into categories of good and bad. And now we have been working very hard, and when I say we, I mean mostly me, and I've been trying to undo some stuff that I have put upon my kids, especially when they first got here, and we're neutralized seeing food. Now. Of course, I want to teach my kids about nutrition and certain vitamins and nutrients that their body needs, and we try to have

diversity when we're building our plates. But I am not going to freak out about certain things that I used to and STA shared. Do you remember the time I freaked out about the candy at church? Wasn't that crazy sneaking? Oh? So see what I caused. I mean, that's a good point that you bring up, Like I was restricting my kids from even having certain food freedoms because of my own fears, and then that caused her to have to

sneak things. And we do that to ourselves. Your kids may start to sneak things, but then even you, when you restrict you start to have sneaky things that you do to get food for yourself. So I just hope that you all really enjoy this conversation that you're about to hear that Lisa and I did with Gabby, who is a non diet dietitian who has made it her life's mission to help moms with young daughter create a positive relationship with food and their body so that you know,

we can end the cycle of diet and despair. And a lot of our personal body shaming rhetoric and our healthy relationships with food came from what we learn as kids are healthy or unhealthy relationships, and stuff we picked up when we were little. But it's never too late to flip the script. So whether you're a mom, a parent, or not, I will say that what you're going to hear today will positively influence future generations. And that's the goal.

We want to protect our daughters or sons and all future generations from the dangerous rhetoric that a lot of us grew up with and that actually you see in society still every day everywhere we're inundated with diet culture messages. So we hope to change that, and we're doing it one episode at a time. Here on outweighs. So I hope you enjoy our chat with Gavy, and thank you Stashira for joining me in the intro. And this is when you say thank you mom for changing your ways

with food. Thank you Mom, but gender no way with food. You're welcome. Hey, Gaby, We're so pumped to have you here with us today. Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to be here. I feel like a good way to introduce you to people is I pulled up an Instagram post that you put up maybe a couple of days ago or a couple of weeks ago,

depending on when someone is listening to this. What you hit resonated with me, and I was like, okay, this way people can understand where you're coming from and then where you are now. So what you put in the caption was I remember the days when I thought I was the epitome of health. I woke up at five am every day to go to the gym for my cycle class. I had strict food rules. The list of foods I could not eat was so long that I

thought it was healthy. I never went out for dinner because I had no control over how the food was cooked. I missed out on social events because health comes first. I weighed myself every day because that was disciplined. And the post goes on and it's longer, and I encourage people to go to your Instagram and check it out. But I really feel like for so many people, that right there is how they define being quote unquote healthy. So how long ago was that you? And then where

are you now? And what are you doing to help other people, specifically moms so that we don't pass this on to the next generation. Yeah, so that version of myself was probably about six or seven years ago, and that was actually the time when I thought I was the best version of myself, as I kind of say in that post. But my history of dieting started way before then too, It started at the age of ten. So really at that point in my life, that's kind

of what I thought health was. I thought health was going your exercise class every single day, stepping on and off the scale, and really being strict with your food choices. And I thought that was the best version of me. I thought I wasn't diet it because this was just a healthy lifestyle. So for anybody who may be feeling this way. Now, who kind of thinks that they are the epitome of health, that they are following those strict food rules, that they're exercising daily, that they have the

discipline or the willpower. The truth is, in a sense, it isn't a healthy lifestyle. It's kind of an obsession that is out of our control in a sense, because we are so into this health I just feel like I could have written that, so I really resonate with those words, And it was also a nice check in to kind of remember, you know, how our ideas of health have changed over time, and to kind of reflect back on what we used to check off as health

and this beautiful new reframe that involves honoring ourselves. And I think it's just super important to recognize that even when you stop dieting, you could still be holding onto new quote unquote health behaviors that are still not healthy. I think the end of that post is when I thought I was the healthiest, I was actually the least healthy, recognizing the mental component and the stress and the rigidity

that kind of went into that life. I don't want a gloss over the fact that you said you started dieting at ten years old, talk to us about that, because I know a lot of our listeners were introduced to dieting at a young age, some not, but for me,

ten seems extremely young, so I'm definitely curious. Absolutely. So I grew up with a mother who died it, so by the age of six, I started to recognize the idea that you step on the scale, you see a number, you don't like, the number, you get off, you look in the mirror, you either pinch some part of your body or you say negative things about your body in the mirror, and then you go downstairs and you go in the cabinets and you throw out all the food

you don't think you can have anymore because of this new diet plan. So starting at six years old, I was starting to get those ideas. And then at ten years old, for my checking with my pediatrician, they let me know I gained way too much weight in a year. It was a red flag. And this is a while ago. So at that point too, they were saying, this is before you get your menstrual cycle. As soon as you get your menstrual cycle, you cannot lose weight. It is

very difficult. You need to lose the weight now. So the way. My mother thought she was protecting me, and I don't blame her for this at all. I know she was doing this out of love and protection. Was she got me with the nutritionist and put me a

diet plan. At the age of ten, I was calorie counting, I was portioning at my food, and I was traveling everywhere with my green lunch box, which I vividly remember because I missed out on so many events, so many sleepovers, graduation parties, just because I couldn't eat the food there and it was too tough to be around. At that age two, I had teachers even complimenting me at graduation parties for my discipline and my willpower. I had friends coming up to me saying that they understand what I'm

going through. Their moms have gone through the same thing. They know how angry they can get when they can't have the food. And it kind of was just instilled at me from the age of ten that we have to be so careful about the size of our body. Our worth comes from our body size, and the foods that we eat affect our body so much. So that's kind of when this like dieting started and kind of leads this very unhealthy obsession with food in my body. Okay, so then when did you decide you were going to

make it your mission with method? And I want you to tell us what that stands for, because it's an acronym. When did you decide? Okay? Now I want to help others not repeat this cycle. So method stands for moms eating to help overcome diets and disorders. And it actually kind of started around like my late teenage year. So one fun fact abound me is that my sister and

I have an eleven year age gap. So my sister and I have always had this relationship where we're kind of sisters, but my mom and I have always viewed ourselves as co parents because I lost my father at a very young age. So around the age when I was about fifteen, so she was around four, I saw her go into the mirror and pinch her stomach and say that she was fat and then suck in her belly. And that was kind of when I had this first light up moment that my behaviors were already starting to

affect the next generation. Even though she is my sister, we still have a little bit of a mother daughter bond and the age gap is so big that I could already see that my grandmother's diet habits affected my mother, My mother's diet habits have affected me, and now my diet habits have potentially affected my sister. And at the age of four, she's looking in the mirror and she's tearing apart her body. Then how is she going to

feel ten years from now. I knew at that point that I had to change my actions, my behavior, my language, my relationship with my body in order for me to help her, and also so that I don't affect anybody else in a way, whether it's cousins, family friends, from having that really unhealthy relationship with food in their body. I couldn't let her suffer and go through the things that I had went through as a child just because

I was so obsessed with food in my body. And I think it's really important that we also just kind of zoom out to recognize that it's not just diet, it's body image. So it wasn't even her relationship to food in that moment, but rather the action of calling herself fat that really alerted you as to, oh, no, this is a problem, yeah, exactly. And the funny thing is like, I don't even know if she knew what that word really meant at that time. Either she just

saw me. It's the same thing that mother daughter relationship. You see your mother stand the mirror, you see her pinch some part of her body and say a word or something, and then you just pick up the habits. And that's exactly what she did. She saw my relationship with her body. She mimiced the exact thing. And I think, being the older person, that scenario like what many moms may see if this is their kids were doing that all of a sudden, this moment lights up and you're like,

oh my gosh, my habits are being passed down. How do I stop this now? Kudos to you for recognizing that at fifteen years old. Yeah, I mean, I will admit it's a process. It's not this overnight thing where I stapped my fingers and my relationship with food in my body as healed, because as we spoke about too, like I had the obsession with health later down the line because I thought that was healthier, but it really clicked in at that young age though that this is

a problem. How do I kind of solve this now? And that's why I think, you know, going back to so many episodes ago when we talked about our values, I forget which expert we had on and we really drilled that point home Amy. It was in Outweigh Season one, was when you are living in line with your values,

you're living from a less self centered place. So it's very clear that maybe because of the loss of your father and you really stepped into the role of parenting very young, that what came before you and even your weight, even though your mom had an influence on you, and that you were told that that was the most important thing your soul was has always been very connected to helping your sister, and without taking time to clarify that and recognize it, it was like your values really stepped

up for you. And that's really important to anyone listening who maybe hasn't thought about what they value, and therefore the things they don't value are getting in the way of the things that they do value and causing this incongruency inside. So my values changed significantly in the last three years. But again I would have defined myself as

a healthy person. I became a mom three years ago, but to an older child we adopted, so my daughter was ten, So it's not like I had a baby and had time to work through stuff and then figure out how I wanted to parent. She arrived into my life at an age where she was absorbing everything and she's very smart, and I thought, oh wow, I am super healthy. My kids aren't going to have gluten. They're not going to have candy. I would get so frustrated

if a stranger would give them candy. I remember the first we took them to church, they went to their Sunday school and they came out with these candy bags and I almost had a panic attack because I couldn't believe they gave them a bag of candy without asking me the new mom. I mean, I freaked out, But it was really my issue about with me, not for my kids. And that's one thing that is significantly different

and how I parent. I also prioritized working out over spending time with them because that was part of my healthy lifestyle, that was part of my routine, and I was gonna be better mentally for them. And so now I show up for them before workout, hands down every time. And now we have tons of candy in our pantry and it's awesome. It's such a freeing feeling when you can keep all these previously forbidden foods in your house again, and no, you're not going to be out of control

with it. But there's one thing that you said that I really want to highly onto is that so many times, like I am not a mother yet, but for many of the moms that I worked, was similar to what you were saying. We want to do the best buy our kids. We think that a limiting in the gluten, being rid of the candy, you know, whatever it may be, is a way of protecting our kids, way of showing them love, and way of helping them fit into society

what the norms are. And it's really important to remember there is no shame, there's no negative feelings, there's no guilt associated with it. You were doing everything you can in your power to protect your kids and it's from a sense of love. But sometimes, as you were saying, now, like you step back and realize and that your workouts came before, or that you were too nervous about the glue or the candy or whatever it may be. And it's just really important to remember that moms don't have

mom manuals. We learn as we go and we kind of learn from all these things as well to be the best versions of ourselves, to heal our relationship with

food and our body, and to protect our kids. I'm gonna go back to Instagram because there's another post that I pulled up, and if people follow you, what I I love that they're going to get from you or these post it notes that you put up, these blue posted notes, they're scattered all about and they have great little things on their quotes or just a prompt or a question. And something that you put up was you will constantly be unhappy if you keep telling yourself that

happiness comes when you are ten pounds lighter. How can you learn to be happy in your body now if you are making happiness of feeling determined by weight loss. I think so many times that we just focus so much on weight loss that as soon as we lose the weight will be happy. As soon as we fit into our pre baby jeans, as soon as we lose five to ten pounds, we're gonna be happy again. We're

gonna get our life back. We're gonna be able to focus as a parent, be present with our kids, take photos at Disneyland, go to the beach and a bathing to whatever it may be. But it's everything is determined

by losing this weight. And the idea is, how can we feel good in the body we are in now, even if you are in a larger body, whatever size body you may be in, how can you appreciate love and learn to accept the body you're in so you can be present as a mother, so you can take all those photos that you can run on the beach, whatever it may be. It's just it breaks my heart so many times when I see people just waiting until we lose the weight to take action on life now.

So I have two questions. You have created a brilliant business around helping moms really m the cycle of dieting so that they don't pass it down to their daughter. The first question I have, because you're so vocal about your relationship with your mom and how she had an impact on your relationship to food and body image, how does your relationship now that you kind of go out publicly and tell this story. How are how are you able to have a conversation clearly, very healthfully so that

she doesn't feel shameful. I think one of the really important things is I always say that. I never blame my mother, and I never think any of this was her fault. She grew up in a household with a mother who died. This is normal. This is just what she thought was normal. She was doing this protect me and love me. So my mother knows with everything that I talked about, it's not ever coming from a place of she did this to me. Look what my mom

did to me, she hurt me. It's coming from a place of I started to recognize this pattern in my family, this vicious mother daughter diet cycle. I noticed it, I stopped it, and I take action now to help others. So my mother and I have a very beautiful relationship.

I don't know if we'll ever see eye to eye on food in our body, but either way, she knows that what I'm doing right now is to help other people, and her relations ship with food in her body that's up to her right now, and she knows I'm here to support her with whatever she needs. That's awesome. And I also want to know from a business point of view, you know, five years ago or so, we weren't calling

out what we're seeing now. We were defining health very similarly to how you did in the beginning of the post that Amy read as working out and discipline, and now a lot of that's brought to light. Have you found that mothers are really eager to fix their relationship to food, not just for themselves, but because they've got

this motivator of having a daughter or a child. In general, every single person who has applied to work with me has most likely had one event take place, whether they noticed their child standing behind them as they stood on the scale, whether they saw themselves in the mirror while they were picking apart their body, or their kid asked, and you know, why can't you lick the brownie matter spoon? Mom? Like, let's make brownies or whatever, counting almonds, whatever it may be.

There's one event that happens when all of a sudden, this lights up and they realize, similar to how I did, this is my mother. I'm being my mother right now. I'm kind of passing down this diet cycle. How do I stop this? Now? I think that's just really cool because you've got this outside motivator that's living and breathing outside of you, and every day you wake up wanting to do a little bit better, not just for yourself,

so that's super cool to me. I think whether people have kids or not, all of this is just how do you want to live life? How do you want to show up for others? I mean, sure, we want to focus right now on you know, I'm a mom, so I want to know how can I show up for my daughter, for my son? But if you're not a parent, how can you show up better for your friends, for your significant other? What events or parties are you

missing out on? What family recipes are you not tasting because you have anxiety around the food and you don't want to touch it. What's one of the first things that you have clients do to maybe help break some of that. Because Lisa has been a huge part of encouraging me in my new way of thinking and ditching old things. So I even posted something the other day like I specifically bought a muffin that was made with

wheat flour and it was not gluten free. It had all the things and I saw it, I bought it, I ate it and it was awesome, and I just didn't know, like, what advice do you have for moms when it comes to making memories? But again, if you're listening to this, it could also just apply to insert whatever your role is in someone's life, what is something you encourage them to go do to kind of be a rebel in a sense, but that's also going to

keep them in check. Yeah. The first thing we always do is we go through kind of the diet and the food rules, because these are the things that you've been living on for so long. Like you said, with the glue and like you went out and you got a real muffin, wasn't glue and free? Whatever it may be. So the first thing we do is we identify the food rules and we learn how to bring back those foods in. We don't do it all at once because for a lot of us, there are so many food rules.

Maybe we're dairy free, gloom free, you know, we're not having oil, we're vegan, whatever it may be, because this is what health has told us. I had air quotes there, But what I'm trying to say is that we start by adding in one of those forbidden foods. And for a lot of my moms, it's usually carves. The idea of adding in carves, and I'm talking about like your starchy, weak carves is horrifying. You've been told all your life not to have these for weight lost purposes, for health purposes.

So we really start by how can we add these carbs in and actually be really in tune of our body and notice some of the differences. A lot of my clients will say things like, I have my energy back to play with my kids. I have the ability to go for a long walk with my kids without being burnt out. And I think for them, the biggest thing that they want to see is that they can

be present and show up with their kids. And it's crazy how much carbs can do that for us, especially when you've been living a life on low carb diets. I loves Yeah. I was waiting for Lisa a pipe in with how important carbs are, and that is it is a good point. I'm doing a lot of therapy right now and again just trying to be the best

mom that I can be. And in a couple of the parenting books and stuff that I'm working through, one of the number one things that they stress is if you want to show up for your kids in whatever way possible, you need be taking care of yourself because you have to be able to stay calm and firm, and if you're irritable because you need some carbs, you're not gonna be able to stay calm and firm, and your kids aren't gonna feel the safest they possibly can

around you because you're gonna be on edge, or like you already are on edge, because I know so many of us just didn't allow ourselves carves or whatever it is that you might be depriving yourself of. But like Lisa will attest to, carbs are super important thing that our bodies need to function properly. I mean, the hangar, the hungry and angry combo when you're parenting is very

very hard. And if you are hungry and if you're missing out on those carbs, that hangar is gonna come in really hard and it's not gonna, as you were saying, you're gonna not make like very sound decisions at that time. Yeah, And my favorite thing about carbs not that anyone asked me, but that's just so immediate. They give you immediately what you need and I'm just like thank you, you know, just just I ask and you give, and it's just

to be a full thing. I'm picking uPAR your Instagram right now, but this is just too fitting for me to not bring it up. On one of your other blue post it notes, it said, mom, tip, carbs don't make you fat, they keep you sane. You are not failing the diet by adding in carbs, you are nourishing yourself. And literally I just scrolled upon that as we were talking about this. I didn't even plan to say that, but it's so true. I feel like the nineties are

kind of fat free. But then when by the time I was in college, actually my senior year of high school, I was doing Atkins, then the South Beach Diet, then probably back to Atkins. So like everything, we just were raised. If you're around my age of thirty nine, not you, but like listeners, we were such a no carb, low carb lifestyle, and now with Keto, for example, the whole

low carb thing is being pushed out again. So it's how can we teach people that we actually need carbs is your body's preferred source of energy, They'll keep you sane, and just watch the difference that it makes in your headspace when you actually enjoy the foods. Dr Joshua is on the podcast in season one, and he made an excellent point that when we are super stressed out about eating something it's actually worse for our body than if

we would actually just eat it. So I just always find that it's it's like an interesting way to remind people that just because you have, like you were saying early on your life, you're being applauded for self control, and but I'm sure certain things would stress you out, but nobody is inside seeing what's really going on in your body, and had you enjoyed the graduation party or eating the food, that may have been better for you.

I was just gonna say that's such a good point, because in the inside I was so angry, Like when I think back to times when I died, it was probably the angriest points of my life. But on the outside, it's as you said, like she has willpower, she has disciplined, look how good she is, and you're rewarded for this really negative behavior as you're having this whole internal debate inside of you as well, so nobody sees what's going

on inside, and it's just crippling and it's miserable. And when you get out diet mindset, just the feeling of peace and freedom and to have all the stress away from making all those decisions, to just I'm going to eat this food and nourish myself and move on. Is just it's unbelievable. So some parents I know listening might have a child who classifies as overweight or has gained weight in a short amount of time. Similar to how when you were I think you said ten years old

and you went to the doctor. So some parents are dealing with the fact that the doctor said that the child is overweight or weighing too much for their age, on top of the fact that the child is starting to have low self esteem, and the parents might be really worried that the child's going to get bullied, and they want to help their child, but they don't know how all the medical professionals, the doctors are telling them

that the child needs to lose weight. How would you talk to those moms about how to be a good example for their daughter or child. So there's a few things I always say. If your doctors make you feel ncomfortable, it's really important that you research. You asked for help looking for some kind of weight neutral or non diet doctor. If your doctor every time you go is making you feel uncomfortable, then that's not a great person to go to.

But it's really important as parents to lead by example, to show them that at any body size, whether you are in a smaller body size than your child or even a larger body size, that you can enjoy all foods, that you can appreciate your body in the mirror, and that you can get dressed without stress. I also think another thing I always promote is having these open conversations.

If your child comes home one day and says something, whether it's from the pediatrician or it's from somebody at school, you know, somebody called me fat, whatever it may be, having that conversation with your child, you know, what does fat mean to you? What do you think was going on? Asking these really big, open ended questions that kind of dive deeper to show your child that these aren't necessarily negative things. How we can be healthy at every size.

But it is really hard nowadays because there's bullying, and because there's doctors who don't promote this idea that we can be healthy at every size. So it's really important that we lead by example and we create this atmosphere in our home that accepts our children at any shape and size. I'm glad you asked that question, list, because that is super important for parents to be able to address if it does happen, or maybe if it's already happened,

they can go revisit it. What are like for me my daughter that's thirteen, I know that the first year and a half or so that she was here, I feel like now I have some undoing to do because of how rigid I was, and I would use label food good and I would label food bad. Have you found once you work with moms and they redirect how they speak and they're rewiring their own brains, is there anything that is particularly beneficial out of the gate to like make sure they're doing with their kids to undo

some of the damage. Because my daughter is super smart, so she never bought into my crap, But I wonder if sometimes there's still things lingering in her head or even my son, because they'll say, oh, Mom, you don't eat ice cream? What? And now I have I Had's almost like I have to convince them, yes, Mom eats ice cream. Now it's totally fine. But I don't know if there's something else I can do to kind of undo the damage. I think you're doing everything right. It

always starts with the language. So before you were labeling things as good verse bad. It's really important now that you use very neutral language. As I always say, and apple is not good in oreo is not bad. They have different nutrient components to them, but they're both neutral foods. So it's really leading by example. It's taking your old food rules and kind of crossing them out. If you never kept an apple and oreo on your plate at the same time, maybe this is the time that you

combine those foods on your plate. This is the time when you get rid of the good verse bad food rules and the mindset that you have with it. I think the first step is really working on your language, and I don't think it's necessarily the idea of undoing what we've done, but now teaching them that we can change too. As adults. We can pick up when we've done something that may have not been the best for our health and may have affected our kids, but we're

going to change our behaviors. We're going to change our language, We're going to change our action around that so that we can lead by example and show them. So even if our kids are making fun of us, are saying you don't eat that or that kind of thing, you can let them know that you're change doing your relationship with food in your body. You're going to start eating these things now because you want to show them that

all these foods belong on your plate. And I think that's like the most admirable thing as well, is when we can see our parents changing and realize that they're human too, that they're doing these things not just for themselves, but also for us to be the best role models. I love that. I think that's going to be helpful for a lot of people listening. Again, even if you don't have kids, you may need to just change the language and conversation with yourself and give yourself that grace

and understanding. And I like the encouragement you just gave me of like, I don't need to undo it. I I can also lead by example that people can change. And this is a perfect opportunity to demonstrate that everything that's happened to us our learning experiences, even if it's kind of the worst situation, whether it's with food or whatever it may be, we learn from that, we change our habits from that, and that's how we're kind of

a role model. But the other thing I see a lot too is I have people who come to me who aren't parents yet, but they're afraid of continuing that vicious cycle. So whether you're a mom or you're not a mom, you can start to pick up on these is now and learn how to change the behavior for your kids or even your future kids. I love that, and I'm so glad that we found each other on the internet and now you can bring all of this great information to our listeners who are just going to

love it. So where can we find you? So you can find me on Instagram It's Gabby con dot r D. Or you can find me on my website which is method nutrition dot com. And we'll put all of that in the show notes. Thank you so much for your time, and we're so excited for this great episode to get out there. Yeah, Gabby, thank you so much. Thank you for having me