Diet Culture vs. Intuitive Eating

I am with our new resident guest hosts. Like we have a residency, you know, like they do in Vegas at the hotel's like Adele was supposed to have her residency and I think like Caesar's Palace, and then I don't know if she had to pull out of that. But you know, Garthen Brooks has residencies, George Strait has done some. And now we have Michelle Pillo pitch here. This one's not canceled. Yeah, the Outweigh residency, yes, not canceled. We are good to go and she will be here

with me the next for Saturdays. Now, Michelle, this is your show. I'm gonna hand it over to you for today's topic and then we'll just engage in conversation around that. But we are so honored to have you here. And maybe you've been on the podcast before, but for new listeners, just introduce who you are, your credentials, and why you're passionate about outweigh. Yeah, well, thank you for having me. I'm thrilled to be here. My name's Michelle Pillopitch. I'm

a registered dietitian and a certified personal trainer UM. I primarily work with clients who are struggling with eating disorders, working on eating disorder recovery UM so I work in a virtual private practice, and I also see anyone who wants to improve their health and wellness from an intuitive eating point of view. So that's the short version of what I do. When you mentioned intuitive eating, which we're going to touch on that today and kind of diet

culture versus intuitive eating. And then you know, we see all these things online, especially through Instagram. Well that's where I get a lot of my content, and then I have friends that send me things from TikTok, which I want to spend more time there because Lisa or someone in Lisa's family said that TikTok is the last happy place on the Internet. I completely agree. TikTok is where I go when I want social media without the annoying parts. It's pure hilarious at least my feed. So yeah, I

love it. Your your algorithm is full of the funny stuff.

So okay, tell us what we're talking about today. Yeah, So, I mean, it actually is interesting talking about my personal algorithm because I am in such a bubble on Instagram of the intuitive eating world in the non diet space and all the things that I believe in and how I work that I forget that it's kind of a new novel thing to a lot of people because diet culture so strong, and I see both camps, both camps including into DEI Eating, which I very much of a

part of, going so far to the extremes in terms of their messaging, especially online, and I hear from clients and appears that kind of both become inaccessible because the diet culture group is saying, you know, go on this thirty day cleans elimination diet or whatever like crazy thing that's not going to actually help you feel better and healthier and be sustainable. But then sometimes into it of eating. And I talked about this a little bit with Lisa

about exercise. Sometimes that camp can skirt around the health topics so much that people who want to genuinely be healthier feel better maybe they need to improve their a once or cholesterol or something also get scared of into it, of eating, thinking well, that's just totally giving up on health, and that's not true. I can see where there is

the confusion. As a this is not my profession. I miss someone who has been a part of both worlds and spent many of my like teenagers and adult life immersed in diet call turn trying every diet out there known to man. And then as I entered into this space, you're correct in saying it is very new for a lot of people. It's still foreign to some people where they're like, oh, this is the first account I've ever followed like this. It's like a foreign length you're learning

a new language. And then it is when you don't understand it. That's where there can be a misunderstanding, because it's kind of like you just like think you know a little bit of Spanish and then you might have a conversation with someone that's fluent and then you're like, wait, what did you just say? And because it gets more

advanced as you move forward. And so I think where the messaging gets caught up, or where people get caught up in the messaging, is that a lot of people online focus on those first steps, where yes, it is about rejecting diet culture and giving yourself permission for all foods, and it's that temporary phase of yes, eating more of the sweets or whatever it is you've been restricting, and then the long term goal is still to feel your

best and prioritize your health. And so things can be kind of maybe abnormal compared to what they'll be long term when you first start, and that can drive people away, or it can leave professionals never talking about the long term because that can seem unattainable. It's so complex, like how to how to portray it, because if you talk about, oh, but you can still prioritize nutrition, then people might stay stuck in the diets if they're only thinking about nutrition.

I think that some of the stuff that's posted online too is to get more views at times, or get shares and likes and comments, and to kind of have a like a wow factor to it, like oh right, without maybe explaining the bigger picture. So since we do have a little bit of time here, How would you

explain the bigger picture? If say you were to click on an account where it is a registered dietrician and they do mean well and it it is helpful information, but you kind of walk away thinking like, wait, what, I can just eat like cookies all day long if I want to, And that's not what people are saying. But again, it's understanding the whole language. And when it's like you're trying to shut the door on diet culture, it can seem like two extremes of like, don't tell

someone they can't have French fries. You can have French fries, but then you might hear it as so I can have French fries all day long, right, and then oh, I'm still gonna feel bad because that doesn't feel good either. Yeah, it's like this sweet spot of knowing that yes, the goal long term is understanding. Okay, my body still needs nutrients and I need to learn not to care for it.

You know what I tell people, especially the clients I work with, I think that many of them are surprised that I even entertain the conversation of weight when it's brought up in session. But I think it's important to talk about because I can't think of anyone who's never thinking about it. And I always say, you know, I'm not going to help you go on a restrictive diet to lose weight and focus on intentional weight loss. In a hypothetical world, let's say we were talking about you

my clients losing weight. I wouldn't change anything, I was saying, because if your body is a decided it doesn't want to be at you don't have to intentionally try to change anything. If you, big picture want to change your health, then it's going to be the same behaviors as big picture moving towards intuitive eating, meaning you know, eating a wide variety of foods, allowing yourself everything, and tuning into your how your body feels so that you're naturally practicing moderation.

It's going to be moving and exercising in a way that feels good and is sustainable, balancing stress, drinking enough water, sleeping enough, all these big picture things. And the people who are in the diet culture world, well, I was going to say, and doing it ethically, but I don't think diet cultures ethical, so maybe that's a contradiction. But somebody who has less of an intuitive focus but is

really focused on health. They're not going to be selling you those wild ideas that are kind of the click faith things. They're going to be doing the basics that we kind of already know well. And then I think to diet culture wants to sell you an image of like, this is the ideal what you should be striving for. And what we have to erase is there's all different

types of bodies. And you said it yourself. If your body isn't I don't know if you use the word suppose I want to quote you correctly, but if your body is not meant to be that size, then you'll move towards where maybe your body would like to be. I I guess it's just kind of this exception that all bodies are different and one size isn't better or

worse than the other. Yeah. And I also talk about intuitive eating as this shift from external to internal, and so when you really look at focusing on how you feel internally rather than Okay, the goal of pursuing health

is to get to exercise. But if it's the goal of pursuing my health is to feel a certain way internally, then you're going to naturally moderate behaviors and prioritize the things that feel good, which is going to be a wide variety of things, and it's going to be naturally intuitive, So that focus on what feels right, even if it

doesn't look quote unquote right according to the magazines. I don't like calling out particular companies, but there are diets out there that are disguised as intuitive eating, and I see ads all the time. I know now because I'm paying attention. But if I wasn't, I would say one or two years ago, I would have signed up for one of these programs and it would have left me probably feeling the same way all the other diets did.

But the way they market it, it's almost like they know that this whole intuitive eating thing, and you know, even a lot of registered dietations like people are making a shift. They're seeing the shift, so they're following with it, and they're smart, so they're marketing in a way where it's not a diet. If you google intuitive eating, there are plenty of these diet plans that pop up, which is scary. So the things that I caution people to look for are the kind of extremes that all are

nothing language. So anything that is telling you to cut something out entirely, like you can't eat any x y Z food, that's always a red flag. If it's giving you a particular timeline, that's a red flag. And I would even say that like tracking food is kind of a red flag also with the caveat, Like I do have some clients track their food, but it's on an eating disorder recovery specific app and it's short term, temporary,

just for me to get to know their patterns. Question on that because I have not heard of eating disorder specific food tracking app. So can you expand on that in case that something someone might be interested in? Sure, So I don't know if it exists to like use on your own without working with a professional. But it's called every Record and it's an app that is I hate to compare anything to my fitness well, but it's logging your food. It doesn't give you calorie counts, it

doesn't show any sort of metrics. Um. It allows you to upload pictures and jot down what you ate as well as any thoughts and feelings and urges that came up, and log your hunger and fullness. So it's more geared towards getting in touch with like everything that goes on surrounding the food. And so why as a registered dietestion or why would you have a client use a tool

like that? Good question. I like to have people do that in the beginning when I'm just getting to know someone, so that our session time isn't spent just going over okay, what did you eat and kind of wasting time, but I can look back and see their patterns for the week, as well as having them dot down hunger and fullness to keep track of that and see, Okay, what level are you eating too, how are you actually feeling with these different meals and is it enough? Are you portioning

yourself enough food? And then noting their thoughts as well is really helpful because sometimes you just don't remember that a particular meal was super triggering or made you really stressed, or you were worried about X, y Z while you're eating with these people. So having those notes just gives us a lot to process and talk through in session. Okay, that makes sense, So tracking food might be a big

red flag. And obviously I'll just say this too. If you're listening that way, we're speaking to anybody that has possible disordered behavior on food or has has had an eating disorder, because I do have friends that they use tracking apps, but they don't have an unhealthy relationship with

food or their body. They are genuinely curious about the science of their body and like, no, they don't they don't have an issue with it, but they like the numbers and looking at the protein and the fascination behind their you know, blood sugar level, their muscle caught, like they draw their blood and they're like, oh, look at this, like the the bio hacking type of behavior. Yeah, and

there's so much out there for that. Yeah, and so intentions really matter, like if you're going to be un I was talking to a dietitian friend about this right after the holidays, saying, how, you know, I don't own a scale, but my in my parents home there's a scale, and I was like, yeah, whenever I go home, like I'll stand on the scale and I don't even think about it. After me, I don't. I couldn't tell you what the number was last time I weighed myself because

I just I don't know. I'm like, it's just kind of whatever. And she was like yeah, oh my gosh. If people knew that a dietitian looked at their weight, they would be like tabloid news scandal. But it's about how you react right and being able to see. So I even have some clients who I'll have them log their food, and I always say, you know, if you don't want to log because it stresses you out to look at what you ate, I think that kind of

says something and it's worth looking into. Doesn't mean that you need to log your food, but it's something to

talk about, just the stress around it. So in terms of food logging being a red flag for diets, I would say if it's logging that is metric based or rules based and kind of used to determine if you're following the rules of the plan, so things like points or I've seen the sort of traffic light system of like red, yellow, green foods, and so if you're logging in order to like stay accountable to rules, that is very diety. So do you say there's rules with into

A defating. No, So there are ten principles of into A defeating the actual framework, and people can google those. I won't go through all of them. You know, when I'm helping clients get there. I give guidelines in the beginning in terms of how to build a plate and make sure that you're covering your base is nutritionally because you know, like we're saying, there's a middle ground here between into a defeating and diets, like, yes, there are things that we need from our food to be nourished,

healthy human beings. So I like to give guidelines and parameters of like what's enough, and what does balance look like, and how can incorporate variety, how often to eat things like that? And I always say it is not going to happen a percent of the time. And if you're doing most of the things that you know feel good most of the time, then that's kind of where into the eating tends to fall, and that's what feels good. Yeah.

I never trusted myself, and it took me a long time to even honestly trust when I really was full or when I really was hungry, because I spent so much time in a binge restrict environment, like my body just didn't even know. But then once I started to practice the principles of intuitive eating, I was able to finally have a distinction and no, oh, this is full. I can stop now, and it's okay, Like I can stop if I get hungry and a little bit, I

can eat more. Yeah, you know, Lisa and I jokes we always use oreos or I always come somehow go back to oreos because that was a big no no in my pantry. And then now I'm recording this at my house right now, and downstairs, I have oreos and they have been there for two weeks. There may be some days where I have more than others, and there

maybe some days where I don't have any. But it used to be that I would freak out if they were there, and I would either eat them all or I would have to just throw them away right right, And that's just streams again. I like to share if I am in this place now and you're feeling like, oh, I could never do that or trust myself with these foods, and then trust that I would still take care of myself and have greens and proteins and other fruits and nutrients and fats that my body needs. I am walking

proof that that can happen. Yeah, And I've seen plenty of plenty more people that that happens. Yeah, And so you know, also it's good to know. It's helpful for people to know that there's an in between, right, like, yes, you were, You've been at both sides, and you had a process of getting there, where like maybe you bought the oreos once a month and it was like getting

better but not quite there. Yeah, where you can have them all the time, and so it's something that takes time and practice and quote unquote slipping up and coming back because that's normal. And that's what's also different from the diets, like normalizing the challenge and the fact that there is no sticking to something because that's not how

human bodies are made. If someone were to just be curious listening right now of like when you talk about building a plate, I mean, and everybody's situation is different, but if there was, like in your mind an ideal plate to be built, what would be on it for you? For me personally, We'll just give your yours as an example, because you've you know how to take care of what your body need. You mentioned earlier you would help them

build a plate, So what does that look like? So, I mean, the things that I think about are the three macro nutrients protein, carbon, fat. All three are super important. We need all of them. Typically we need more carbs than proteins and fats and and fiber, which would be a fruit or vegetable is like the optional fourth component there. So you know, as an example for myself, I'm someone who is okay with eating the same thing days in a row. I like leftovers, I like whatever. Like my

breakfast most days is oatmeal, oats, or carves um. I always put peanut butter, almond butter or something as well as like cheese, seeds, whatever seeds to have on hand. That's giving me fat. I know that I just won't be full if I don't have the protein in it in it also, so I love the texture of protein powder in oatmeal. I think it's really good. So I do that. And then fiber I add whatever, like frozen fruit that I have on hand, or bananas or whatever

it is. So that's just an example, but those are the main components that I think of combining them in any way you can and no looking at the big picture of the day. So knowing that, like, okay, if today is a day where I'm craving pasta for dinner and I don't feel like putting meatballs with it, so

it doesn't have a distinct protein source. That's okay. I had approaching it my other meals like it's going to even out and be enough, and tomorrow I'll have a different dinner that's going to have maybe chicken or something. There was so many days in my life where if I didn't have something green, I thought I had ruined my life and the world was ending. But now I have days where I don't have anything green, and I it doesn't stress me out and I'm able to go

to bed. But then I know that the next day, you know what, I'm going to try to make my favorite smoothie and add a few extra greens to it because yeah, I didn't have green yesterday. Or I might go a few days with no greens, but I'll figure out a way to pay attention and work it back in.

Like I think, if you're feeling like a drastic like oh no, and life is over because some diet rule was broken, that's when it's we need to pay attention, right, And that's the difference with like the intentions and kind of being able to look at things and not be so thrown off by it. And so you get to that place where it becomes intuitive. You just know how you feel when you're needing some of that fiber variety,

you know, the greens or whatever it may be. What do you think about the videos that some people put up that are what I eat in a day videos? I mean, they affect everyone differently. You know, I can look at those and say like, oh, there's a new

lunch idea. Maybe that's helpful. I think they're very dangerous because a lot of people look to those as the law, and they tend to be the you know, influencers who are like going for the very aesthetic like morning routine, blah blah blah, ideal life, and so I think people also have this view of like, oh, if I eat like her, then my whole life will be perfect like hers. And you don't know, is that everything that that person is eating in that day? Did they finish everything that

they showed in that day? Is that actually what every day looks like? Or that's today and then tomorrow is going to be completely different because maybe today was restrictive and tomorrow they're going to binge And there's just so much unknown, and for most people, I think it's hard to to recognize that there is that nuance and that there's a lot creating the bigger picture, and we just look at that one thing and think, okay, like she has this body and she eats this way. I have

to do exactly what's in this like thirty second TikTok video. Yeah. For me personally, I don't get them at all, Like I'm like, okay, I like them for like you said, new ideas of what to eat, and I'm sure some people are doing them this way, but it should be reframed to be like, hey, here's a lunch idea, like here's a breakfast idea. I get it because I've been asked before. Hey, I'd love to see what you eat in a day, so I could see where people see that as oh I should put this content out there.

I never officially did one, Thank goodness. I did plenty of other disordered behaviors that I passed on to a lot of my listeners that I feel bad about now and I'm like, okay, well you learn. Also, we all have different caloric needs. So no matter why your size, okay, well, what's also was your activity level that day or is your period coming? Like yeah, are you stressed out in life?

Like what other life circumstances are quote unquote on your plate, like you're saying with you know, calling out the diets. I don't like to be blaming, because you're right, Like, these creators get asked for that content, and it's because of this bigger idea, like we were talking about before. You know, nobody's body is supposed to look exactly like

someone else's, but there's that belief that it can. And so I think that's what drives people to even ask for it in the first place, is like that this idea that there is one formula for one image and it's achievable to everyone, and that is just not the case. And like if people could accept that, if the industry could not sell us the lie um, it'd be easier to accept, and then there's less demand for it. Because I also get frustrated when I see bloggers sharing their

clothing and posting what size they wear. And I've reached out to people actually in like a rage about it and asked them, you know, why can't you just say, like, it runs big, it runs small, it runs through to size, because some fashion bloggers saying they're like a triple extra small is not really helpful to anyone, because like we've never met, I don't even know if you're taller than me or whatever. And I've heard people say that followers

asked for that. Okay, that I had not thought about that, because I do get asked for sizes, but I should give more information about my body, probably not my weight, but I could give more as to why I'm in a small and then that way people have that reference and it's not so much like, oh, she's in a small. And I always think it's interesting seeing how people share clothes compared to shoes, and they'll say like, oh, I wore my normal size in shoot, or like I wore

this is a sneaker. I wore my normal sneaker size, or I sized up half a size, which I find helpful. Yeah, so it's very interesting. But yeah, like the food as well, just the things people ask for with I guess the belief of like magically transforming their life with a green spot, that's interesting. Well, I feel like Michelle, we could probably talk about diet culture and intuitive eating for another like thirty minutes, but we'll go ahead and wrap here and

you will be back next Saturday. So where can people find you in the meantime. Yeah, so you can find me at Michelle Pillow Pitch Nutrition on Instagram, and then my website is Michelle pillopitch dot com and pretty much everything is linked from there. Yeah, and Pillow Pitches p I L l E p i C. H awesome, Thank you, thanks so much