This is Outspoken. The podcast is not afraid to say exactly what you're thinking. Our names are.
Amy Kate and Sophie Torbor.
We're identical triplets, but we often don't have identical opinions, so sometimes things can get heated. Outspoken covers all things reality TV, influences, entertainment, and issues facing women. That is so fetch Thank you, Welcome back to Outspoken Now. Sophie, I know you've had an amazing morning and for a very very sad reason. Yeah, was actually so excited because I have got a rare ushi.
Now.
This is so terribly sad because I did my big shop with Brandon, and we always pay for things separately because I'm vegetarian, he's immediated. We buy different things for a weekly shop. Anyway, I said to make sure that you asked for the ushies when you put your grocery through. Anyway, so we had about nine of them. I joke that it was for my son Archie, which is my dog. Anyway, I rushed back to the car. I had to open all of them immediately. So sad, what are you like? Five? No,
I'm just joking. I did the same thing anyway, and I said to Brandon, I think that this is a rare one. It's one of the ones with the glitter on it. Anyway, can I give context? Can I give context? I get a frantic call, Oh my god, I think I've got one of those valuable Sushies are worth ten thousand dollars. I said, calm down, what is that ushi? Can you send it to me? It's one of those glittery ones. And I was sort of like, what an idiot?
Then I realized that I owned a glittery one too, and suddenly I was like, so involved in this conversation. Now as you do, Amy, you jumped on Marketplace. Now, apparently these Glitterybaes or eBay are only worth about thirty to forty dollars, But too bad. I have to say, I think that the value is extended if you have them in a whole catalog. So I think that the three of us should team up and make the best collection. We've already got two glittery ones. This could be worth
a lot. Now this is like bog buying on a different level. This is like not pandemic bolt buying, but this is ushi bolg buying. Can I say I just had this thought. I just cannot believe a thirty one year old talking about collecting ushies to.
Pretend it's for the kid.
I feel like it's competition season because Monopoly McDonald's is also bad, and I feel like it's a tactic of them to do it, because of course it's a tactic, no, but I'm saying they always do it when spring is about to start, because it's when you're to die.
It's a time where people don't want to be eating that crap.
Well, I want to hear if anyone else is in their late twenties or early thirties or forties or whatever and you don't have kids and you're collecting ushies, we want to hear. So go to our Facebook community, which is outspoken the podcast community, and tell us if you're collectingshes. And it also add if you were incredibly embarrassed to be asking for these, because I think it's it's awkward where you've got to show your receipt. Just before we get into the main topic, there was a little bit
of confusion. Some people were asking us whose voice is whose voice? And I don't really know how to say this. This is Amy's voice, So I think that you apparently have the kind of middle of the range in the deep category.
Is that right?
Someone s actually at the deepest, So I don't know, okay, And then this is Kate. I don't know. My voice hasn't been professionally trained, which is what Amy and Sophie like to tell me.
All the time.
I don't get to read the intros out very much. But that was a burn, so I don't this is my voice, This is Sophie. I don't know.
I think your voice is the deepest.
It's probably deep at the moment because we've had a bit of an argument before we got into this. But I think something that will help people be able to tell us apart is we're actually going to be putting together a video about how to make a podcast, and we're going to be putting that on YouTube.
So I suppose you'll be able to put a face to the voice.
That's not going to help people when they listen to the podcast, but well, they might feel like they know us a bit more. I don't know. All right, Well, now hopefully everyone's got the voices downpacked, we'll get into the first topic. Abby Chatfield's Facebook group is the latest group to implode the It's a Lot Podcast group was archive this week following backlash from Abby's listeners. Sophie, for those who aren't across the drama, can you tell me
exactly what happened? Well, just two weeks ago, Abby told her twenty three thousand followers in the It's a Lot Podcast group that she would be changing the Facebook group to purely group that discusses the podcast. So we actually spoke about this on our podcast two weeks ago. We will put it in the show notes if you want
to have a look. So what has happened since is Abby has appeared on flex Mammy's podcast, which is called Whatever I Want Podcasts, and basically she was talking about the decision to put parameters in the group.
So it has imploded.
Well, it's safe to say there were members of that group who took offense to some of the comments that were made. I think first we should go through what was actually said. Yeah, there was quite a lot of backlash, which then resulted in the group to be archived, which basically means no one can post anything comment like, but the posts can still be viewed that were previously written. So basically the same thing that happened to Shameless's podcast group. Yeah,
that's exactly right. There has been a huge amount of backlash, particularly on the episode thread where Abby was talking about her episode with Flex. So on the thread, people basically accused Abby of trash talking the listeners, and they were saying that they were very annoyed that she said that critical things because are usually very angry and defensive. Now, to Abby's credit, we're going to play exactly what she said about critical thinkers now.
And the issue that I find as well is that the people who are the critical thinkers then get overly angry and defensive, and then they are like, why don't you think like this? And while I may agree with their point, I can't go in and then just block someone who has a different opinion to you. I can't just delete everyone, because then it becomes an echo chamber, and then what are we doing. We're yelling at each other about the same thing and there's no discussion happening.
And to be honest, I think she raised quite a valid point with this, and one that we're seeing with a lot of groups. Aren't these groups there so that people can be educated and people can share their different opinions? Yeah, And I don't think Abby was saying that she doesn't
like critical thinkers. There were a lot of critical thinkers in that group that makes some amazing points, but it's just the way that some of them then react if people do not agree with their point of view, which we have seen now because Abby has stood up and sort of said what she actually really thought of the group, and then it has coincided with complete backlash and people
turning on her. And that's exactly what we said in our episode the other week that Abby's in a strange predicament because if she is to go in and police the group, people are going to turn against her. And she has made her feelings clear on this podcast, and that's exactly what people have done. There was also criticism around the fact that people are saying that Abby is not an intersectional feminist and that she was trying to silence women of color. Now, I found this actually ridiculous
because we've got to put it into perspective. Abby is a twenty five year old woman that was on the Bachelorette. Yes, she was very woke for being a bachelor contestant, but I just feel like there's so much pressure on her. As she also said on the podcast, to be perfect. Why are we expecting so much from these people? It's just making influences or people in the public eye not want to stand for anything at the moment because it appears if you stand for something, you're going to be
dragged down for every single issue. So the validity of any of the amazing commentary has made about the feminism movements all rubbished because oh, she's wearing a boohoo dress. That's what annoys me in this day and age is that people are just so willing to tear one another down, and they're not actually willing to praise people who are trying to make a difference. And in one particular area. You have to be an expert on everything, but you'll
be criticized. I think it's impossible to be across every single issue these days. And I'd like to see some of these individuals in this group who are throwing absolute shade at Abby, I'd like to see them start their own podcasts. I'd like to see them put themselves out there instead of hiding behind their keyboards and acting like they're thinking experts on everything.
We actually had a listener.
In our group make some very valid points. Now he was discussing the fact that a lot of these podcasts come out and they're kind of, you know, shameless. They're focused on pop culture. Oh Abby is focused on feminism and sex, and basically, as the podcast evolves in the community gets bigger, they start wanting to discuss bigger topics that are obviously going to create discussion and sometimes they're
going to create controversy. And unfortunately, as we are all huge humans, our opinions are not going to match up with each other. So what do you guys think? Do you think that people should be shying away from these discussions and kind of sticking to their lane or should we be allowing these discussions to be had, But do we then need to make sure that we moderate them properly.
I think people just need to calm down. I think that people need to realize that everyone's got a different opinion and just because you don't agree with someone's opinion doesn't mean that's the wrong opinion. That's just their opinion. And also people should be able to have a fair discussion. Yeah, I mean, I did agree with what Flex was saying that she was kind of having an internal discussion whether she should be moderating it and who is she to
set the tone of what is appropriate and inappropriate? And I could not agree more. It is really hard because there are people that have had lived experiences that are going to be able to talk on a completely different level to what you may be talking about. And it's really sad that these conversations then cannot happen because people
are getting too aggressive in the community. I think we also, whenever we're speaking in one of these groups, we wi should remember that there is a person on the other end of that keyboard, Like, yeah, would some of these people ever speak to someone in real life like that? For instance, not even just to a community member, but if one of these people were to see Abby in real life, would they be so vocal and aggressive to
her as they are being on this group? Also also, I mean I was a part of that group and I ended up leaving it because I couldn't stand to read some of the commentary and the arguments and bullying that were going on, So I just left. And Abby made the perfect point. If you're unhappy in the group, just leave it if it's causing you so much unhappiness. I think that that's what people should do if it's
a negative space then leave the group. Well, I think that's what a lot of listeners found defense to the fact that she was saying that she wished she could leave the group, and I feel like some people maybe thought she was trying to shirk responsibility for moderating that group. And it's quite an interesting thing to analyze, which we were discussing, because obviously they spoke about the fact that Shameless kind of almost overmoderated to the sense that people
were saying, hey, this is not right. All our comments are getting deleted, whereas Flex's grew, they say they've just said, look, you guys are adults, you have your discussions. And I think Abby was very torn about what to do, and then it seems like she has tried to delete comments, and then that's created controversy.
So I can see both sides.
I mean, in a couple of podcasts ago, Sophie and I were discussing how we were quite active members on the Dean Guya forum, and I can imagine if Dean Guya came out and said something negative about that space, Wo'd be like quite offended. So I can see why people are offended a little bit. But then I think Abby was well, in her rights, it's her space that she's created. I think the thing is, I feel like a lot of people in this community would look at
Abby as being their friend. So I suppose you can kind of see that her talking to Flex in such a way about the community, it would be quite personal if you were part of it. But I do think that there are a lot of amazing people that are in that community and they shouldn't.
All be grouped together.
But it's quite funny because maybe the ones who are being most vocal about it do feel a little bit guilty about their participation in it and might have been the ones that were causing trouble.
They're the ones that might have taken the great offense.
Yeah. Well, I think Flex made a really good point in the podcast, which we're gonna insert here, where she spoke about that personal nature that podcasts seems to build between the listener and the podcaster.
Well, I guess it's also because, and I forget this sometimes, but there might be like twenty or so individual people who follow us that we can recognize by user name and face, and we can DM them back and forth and there's a relationship. But for the most part, when we're publishing information. Everyone thinks it's for them. They listen to the podcast, We're speaking right to them. It feels very personal, and as they learn things about us, they
build an allegiance like that's my bitch. Abby's got me. You know, she sees some fuck shit, She's gonna handle it for me. And it might feel that way, but it's not that way in reality. And I feel a sense of entitlement in the group because hierarchies create themselves in Facebook groups based on who posts the most often. Yes, you know people who just love to post for posting sake, and you everyone knows their name. Everyone knows like that's
the person who'll start them, he'll call you out. That's the person who post about relationships. Oh yeah, we know about her job update. There are people who've gained social clout from being active posters, and that social cloud gives them, gives them authority because people look to them. Okay, Bobo and Flex won't say anything, but so and so will. Why don't we ask them?
And so?
You see the way people want to demand and justify the power they have within those group dynamics.
I just felt like she summarized it so well when she was talking about this social cloud that people get in the group, because essentially she was explaining how her and Bobo they actually don't moderate in the group at all, and it seems to be that the people that post the most and are well known in the group, they kind of then set the tone. So it's kind of like Flex and Bobo don't actually own that group anymore.
And I think that was happening in Abby's group, even she was feeling intimidated to share her opinion because there were figures in that group that were setting the tone.
And Abby explained herself that sometimes if someone that posted a lot in her group posted, she could even predict how the conversation would go because it was just based on whatever they wanted, and if anyone dared to even say, oh, I'm nervous to say this, but have you looked at it this way, they would get completely torn to shreds. From a pr perspective, I actually think it's a good
move from Abby. I mean, we did have a little bit of a debate whether Shameless did the right thing, but by closing down their group, and it actually seems like it has.
Been a positive thing because I've heard lots.
Of commentary in recent times about how much people are enjoying Shameless because they don't associate the toxic Facebook group that once was the Shameless podcast group with the podcast itself. And I feel like maybe people were associating the toxic nature of Abby's group with her podcast too, and with Abby as an influence. I'm gonna say I haven't been listening to Abby's podcast as much because I still followed the group.
I'm still a part of it.
I know you guys left it, but I think that could have subconsciously been a reason why I wasn't tuning in. But also, going back to your comments on Shameless Amy, I think that Shameless were being swayed by people's commentary in that group as well, and they were too afraid to be saying their own opinion, which again is it has been happening with Abby, as you were saying. So I think it is a really positive move for them to do it. I mean, it makes us reflect in
our own Facebook community. I think we've got over five hundred people in there at the moment, and because it is a smaller community, it's such a beautiful vibe in there, and that's such lovely people, and I think that all of this happening, it really makes us want to make sure that we continue that, and I think the way to do that is by only allowing people who are actually interested in your podcast to be in there. That's
really hard though, when it gets past ten thousand. I think that's what Abby and the Shameless Girls are saying was the kind of point where things turned bad. But as I mean, Flex pointed that out on her podcast. She was saying, the issue that happened with her group as well is that people who didn't listen to her podcast heard about the group, heard about the funny chats, and they wanted to join. So I think that in that sense, that common ground of liking the same thing
was gone. One thing I found really interesting was this concept Flex brought up, and it's called baby wokeness. Now I'll just play a clip of what she said about it, because she articulated it so well.
Like I know that like people say the N word, I just and I've grown past it. So I feel like there's this like baby woke I like you know, I yeah, which is like very pointy and like it needs to be fixed today, like find all the racists kill them today is like baby woke.
Well, I really couldn't have agreed more with her definition on this, and I thought it was articulated so well. And I think that, you know, I personally have been seeing quite a performative nature from people in that group, and I think that people are getting clout from being so socially aware and so socially outraged by certain things. It's trendy, it's trendy and twenty twenty to be woke, and that's what Abby also said. She said, I'm pretty far left wing, but there have been things that I
see that I think are not productive either. And I think it's also performative. And I think it's often people in a position of privileged posting these to say I'm
actually a good one. And I think that also summarized it so well, because I know, for one, sometimes I get worried to say things, even on this podcast, because I feel like there are people out there that are listening to try and trip you up and to say that you aren't woke enough to be talking about that, or because you said this, you can't agree with that.
I mean, if you look at our reviews, I think the term white feminist has been thrown around a lot to describe us, which it's been used to describe Abby as well. It's ridiculous and the people that are using I feel like saying, you've probably just learnt this term last week. And I think we need to remember that we're all we're all pretty much on the same page. You know, we might not all be as educated on all of these topics, but I think that you've got to give people some slack.
People all trying their best.
We all can't be perfect. And how by bullying someone that isn't as educated on a topic, how is that going to make them want to learn more about it. It's actually going to do the opposite, and it's going to make them feel more valid in their view. That's probably not correct. And I'm pretty sure if we dug into everybody's life, there would be people would be doing
stuff that they weren't aware of it. You know, people who've got Kmart furniture in their house, as Abby said, who are preaching about.
People wearing boohoo.
There are things that everyone could improve on, but it doesn't mean that your opinion on a topic is less valid. Well, no one's perfect, and I think it feels like a lot of the commentary in these groups are saying that everyone must be perfect and if they are not, we're going to pick everything apart that they do. It's a complete headfu I feel so so fabby. It's a complete
headfight what she's gone through. I think as well. It's really interesting because you know, we spoke about in our previous episode about that how Facebook wanted to grow this sense of community. Now this sense of community is not a community to me. This is a destructive group that is turning on one another, like even on the person that they all came about and joined in because they liked her. They've now turned on the person that created
the group. It's funny though, because a lot of these things seem to be happening to podcast group where discussion is promoted. But there is a podcast group their Life Uncut, and I don't think they're having the same issues now. I don't know. I would be interesting to know how they're choosing to moderate the conversations within that group. But I was also thinking.
Is it an age thing?
Because I know with Laura and Brittany they're in their thirties, and I also am a part of that group, and it seems like there is a more mature audience in there. But do you think it's also as one of our community members said that, because they're not setting the tone of talking about controversial issues. But that's why it's not happening by one hundred percent, think that that's what it is. Their topics are almost safe in a way. They're about relationships and they're always sort of the good.
Guys in the conversations.
I feel like they've created this amazing sense of community in their group, But if they were to start discussing controversial things, I could see the tone completely changing. And do you know what, the people in the Abbey Chatfield group are going to be seeking out a new group to talk in, so it'll be interesting to see where they do go. Well. My prediction is on the Bob and Flex group because it's unmoderated, there's a lot of
people in there. I feel like it's important to say though, I don't think that everyone in that group is a troublemaker and should be sort of painted with the same brush you guys were part of the group.
There are some really nice.
People and I think that's what people took offense to when they heard the podcast, they were assuming that she was talking directly to them and that they were the problem, when there were a lot of critical thinkers in that group who were kind to others.
Hows when your joy, you're getting ready, you do put a lot of effort in.
So for the thank for me, that is getting a show out, that is getting tarn that he is putt in bronzeois. With summer just around the corner, fitness influencers, Steph Packer decided it was the perfect time to launch a melanin boosting tanning oil. The post was met with
approval from a range of well known influencers. Despite recent moves to educate women on the dangers of skin cancer, in the past few years, social media has been used as a tool to change millennials and jenz's perceptions on a tan being healthy with campaigns like I Pledge and call time on Melanoma. Yet, with no bands currently on tanning oils and melanin producing agents, what can we do to stop the ignorant and dangerous messages continuing to fill
our feed this summer? So can you tell us first, just who is Steph Packer? Yeah? Well, Steph is a fitness influencer, and it surprised me to see she actually has over eight hundred and ninety one thousand followers because I hadn't heard about her before. Yeah, I didn't know who she she was either, to be honest, and we did a little bit of digging. We had a look at some of the content that she's been putting out, and she has been known to promote plastic surgery abroad.
She's been very vocal on talking about her nose job that she got overseas as well as breast implants. So is that plastic surgery as you said, she's got herself and then has done like a vlog about how she's gotten it done. Well. Yeah, So she doesn't actually have a YouTube channel, but if you type her name into YouTube, a number of videos come up where she is the ambassador for companies I suppose at a promoting travel to places like Pouquette for breast.
Augmentation and nose jobs and that kind of thing.
So she has detailed her experience through these companies. Now, Steph took to her Instagram last week to announce her followers that she is launching a new company called The Skin. Now, what is most disturbing about this new touch not honor in the intro amy is that she is promoting a melon and boosting tanning oil. She had the caption on her Instagram twenty twenty has been a whirl win. But what doesn't challenge you doesn't change you. So excited for
what's to come and tagged at skincoat. This was met by influencers like Sky Wheatley and Lexi Murray, leaving very very positive comments like yes and praising hands. This is deeply disturbing that these influencers are happy to sit by and have her promote this product that is so dangerous and harmful for women. Well, not only did they leave glowing comments on the new Instagram account, they also shared STEP's Insta story, so influencers like Talia Scaines shared it
to her over five hundred thousand followers. I did a little calculation and this post was shared to over one point five million people just from her influence of friends sharing it. Yet surprisingly the page only has about two hundred followers.
Oh wow.
Well, It's the most disturbing thing is those sorts of influencers have such young and impressionable followers that probably think, oh, this is a really good thing for me to purchase. I think the messaging that I found most troubling was the fact that she's saying coming right in time for summer twenty twenty. At the moment, we've seen such great campaign talking about the day of skin cancer, but then these people are being seeming so ignorant and dumb to say, oh,
let's get our bodies tanned for summer. So, just to explain for those who might not understand what this product is supposed to do, it boosts the melanin in the skin. So melanin is actually a pigment or color in a person's skin, hair, and eyes. So in general, people who have darker skin tones actually have more melanin than those with lighter skin tones. So essentially a person's genetics determines
their skin color and melanin levels. And the thing is, there is so much confusion around the use of these melanin boosters because a lot of the companies actually are promoting that melanin is you know, oh, it's a natural skin protectory and you know it's protecting against UV and that's actually not true because if you're using an oil, it's counteracting the protection. This melanin is giving you, it's
just burning you. And the FDA have come out and said there is no research to prove that foods or supplements can increase a person's melanin levels. So if you're buying this product, you're essentially just buying an oil and you're thinking that it's protecting.
Your skin and it's not.
It's just attracting the sun to then damage your skin. Exactly. Well, one professor explained it really well. He said, you have two opposing things happening at the same time. So melanin is protecting you and then melanin is damaging you. There's a race going on between melanin blocking and protecting you. So overall it is causing some damage and leading to lesions that can potentially turn into mutations then thus causing obviously melanoma. Well, the scariest thing is the power of
Steph Packer. I mean, we've all said we haven't heard of her before, but she is incredibly influential her you know, just her powerful friends. It has infiltrated my newsfeed because I do follow people like Tylia Skains and Skywheatly. So even though we might not know of her, she has a powerful network that means actually heard about it legitimately.
She is quite.
Powerful in her own sense, same as you were. Yeah, she is extremely powerful. Me She's got over eight hundred thousand followers. But she also recently did a collab with Stacks, which is an active wear line, and they release these bike shorts. These bike shorts, which are in collaboration with Steph, sold out in thirty minutes and made the company two hundred and fifty thousand dollars. So I feel like, looking at how powerful she is if she's pushing this product,
how quickly is this tanning product going to sell? And how many people are going to expose themselves to dangerous UV rays because of it? I think it is incredibly frightening that someone as ignorant as this has a platform that large and is using in this negative way, Because if you look at how influential influencers are to young people, why can't they be doing some good and promoting sun safety.
I mean, it is disgusting that this woman is purely trying to make money off something that's going to harm so many young women. Well, exactly do you think Stacks
should pull their advertising dollars from an influencer like Steph Packett. Well, it's a really hard one because I think that if we take a look at the current rules regarding sun tanning and promotion of sun tanning, there aren't hard and fast rules to be truthful in doing research for this topic, and it's so difficult to actually find what the rules are. But even if there aren't rules, what about the morals
of it? If I was a company, I don't want to be giving this person money for promoting my product when they're selling this disgusting product to.
Young, impressional people.
I think the issue is there's so much confusion around what is a safe sun tan I mean, I remember seeing no tanas, yes, but I remember seeing Sky Wheatley saying, oh, look at how tanned. So she posted a picture of herself looking extremely tanned back in summer, and she goes, oh, I'm going to try and get to this level, but don't worry, guys, I'm going to use suncream. It seems to be that people think that if they tan in suncream, then they're going to be somehow protected from getting skin cancer,
which is completely untrue. Of course, suncream is there to protect your skin, but if you are continuously sun baking to the point where your melanin is so dark in your skin that means it's damaged. That means that things are starting to happen. I think we should probably before we go and take a look at what the rules are.
As I said, it was very, very difficult to find hard and fast rules in regards to this, so I took a look at the social media ad standards and it outlined rules in regards to alcohol, food and beverage, advertising to kids, gambling, nudity, violence, and health and safety. So sun safety doesn't have its own regulation, but it
falls into the category of health and safety. So basically, I found a number of different case studies where they were talking about plaints consumers had made about certain adverts for tanning products that are gone online. So I took a look online at some of the examples where consumers had made complaints about particular tanning products or even phrases used in marketing, and it stated that encouraging someone to get a tan is against prevailing community standards on health
and safety. So it's quite a broad guideline. The thing is, I don't think the rules are really caught up with the technology. There aren't specific rules stating on social media you can or cannot do this. It's very broad, as you said, which causes a lot of confusion, and there's no fines being handed out for anything, So people are
just getting away with murder. Yeah. And while this is incredibly disappointed to see this post by Steph, I think what has been so encouraging is in the past few years we have seen a savvier audience who were picking up on these disgusting messages, and I suppose savvier influencers as well.
That's right.
I mean, you know, even when you reflect on sun safety at a young age, I suppose growing up in Australia we were always told to slip, slop, slap and rap and rap. But then as a teenager, I feel like we were teenagers in the early two thousands. As a teenager, it seemed very uncool to wear sun cream. Like I even remember at school Mum would force us to put sun cream on in you eight and I remember standing in the locker room and someone's like, who's
most like suncream? And it was like embarrassing to be wearing suncream. And I also remember being that teenager that actually would then like if we went overseas on holiday. I remember tanning several times, and now it actually makes me feel sick thinking about it. Even though you knew deep down about sun's safety, there was still that thing where, oh, this is okay because I'm only tanning on a holiday. Yeah.
As you said, Sophie, it's now kind of become trendy to wear suncream because a lot of influencers have included wearing suncream in their beauty routines. And also there's been some amazing work from influencers like Courtney Mangan who have shone a light on just how important it is to
wear suncream when you're out in public. Well, for those who don't know, Courtney Mangan has been very open and honest about her journey with stage four melanoma, and she actually went into detail last week about everything to do with that journey on her podcast she was the Fire. So we're going to add that to the show notes
because I highly recommend listening to that. There's also been great movements from Shameless called Eye Pledge, and also movements like call Time or Melanoma, which have been so influential in making women really change their perspective on a tan being considered healthy. Well, what does everyone think? Do you
think that people should be embracing their natural skin. I think it's really tough for people to just all of a sudden embrace their natural skin because there have been so many years where we've been consuming that tanned skin is the skin that everyone wants and is the healthy and beautiful skin. I mean, I know myself, now that it's getting warmer, I feel urge to start fake tanning
more often. Another interesting concept about that, though, is how these products like tan or even suncream are being marketed towards us, because it is all based on our desire to still be beautiful. If you look at suncream, it's all about it's marketed in a way where it's preventing age spots and fine lines and wrinkles, but it's not actually saying, hey, this is sun safety.
Well I think that's good.
Yeah, I think it's clever to do that because obviously a lot of the stuff about tanning is coming from a place of vanity. But if you look at it, because it's so hard in regards to your question aming about pale skin, I suppose it's so ingrained in our ideology that it's beautiful to have tann skin, but it's slimming to have tann skin.
Yeah, but do you know what I mean?
How many products have influences made cool that you would probably look at before and go that's really ugly. Well, I'd be really interested to see if a lot of the big name influences hopped on and embrace their natural skin whether people would do so, because there are so many products that influencers have spooked recently that are pretty ugly clothing and they sell out. Well, look at Sharni Grimman dissolving her lip filler and everyone's come out and said,
oh my gosh, I prefer you natural. Imagine if people were then promoting, you know, this is my skin normally. The whole issue, though, is that the whole beauty industry is based around telling us we're not good enough as we are. So they're not going to say, oh, you're good with the skin that you have. We're constantly being told we need to purchase something to make us better. Well.
That reminds me because a couple of years ago, when we visited Singapore, I was actually trying to find some fake tan and I went into one of the chemists and it was literally the opposite. It was bleaching agent for your skin to make your skin whiter. And it's sort of the complete opposite because a lot of people in Singapore and Malaysia have beautifully tanned skin, but it's seen as culturally like if you have lighter skin, like
you are more of the Chinese culture, then you're considered rich. Well, back in the day, people with pale skin were seen as being wealthy because they were inside and everyone who was outside with tan skin were laborers, So it was actually more desirable to have pale skin. Yea seem to see if it actually goes back to that now. On a different note, I suppose while women seem to be gradually becoming more educated on this topic, I think it's really worrying because I feel.
Like men are being left behind.
I know, because like, oh, say to Reese, can you put some suncream on? And like even with Dad, and men are just so anti putting sun cream on. I feel like they don't need it, they just don't want to be uncomfortable as well. I suppose as women were used to putting on all these potions and different oh my god, they should driving a girl for a day.
A sun cream is nothing.
But what do you.
Guys think about Do you think that we should be promoting more men to wear fake tan and it to be acceptable.
Well, I have to.
Admit I did see Kierra Maguire. She put a video up on an Instagram of her boyfriend Matt from Love Island and he was using her fake tan, and I did naturally go, oh, oh my god, you know a guy wearing fake tan, And I thought, no, that's so bad of me, because they should be wearing fake tan. But are we contradicting ourselves? We were just saying that people should embrace their natural skin. Are we then creating a cycle for men that then? I'm not saying that
they can't embrace natural skin. But if you're a man and you actually want to be tanned, rather than burning yourself and giving yourself melanoma, why don't you just put on a fake But that's the whole argument. Though. I don't think that we as a society who are so obsessed with appearance. I don't think we are just going to accept our power skin. I think we're going to want to use things like fake tan to get that look,
but in a safe way. The thing is, I don't feel like there is an immense pressure on men to have a tan as much as there is on women. Like, think about it. When you are getting ready to, say, go to a wedding, The first thing I think is, okay, well two days out, I need to do my fake tan. The brides are getting fake tan. But I don't think necessarily men are thinking obviously because then we'll cover it up.
I don't think that's true at all.
I think there are pressures for young boys to be tanned. I mean, if you go down to the beach and you're very pale, boys pay each other out for that kind of stuff. I've heard young boys talking and they are concerned about whether they're tanned or not. But I don't know if any of them would actually feel brave enough to get a fake tan for fear of being paid out. Do you know what, though, I think that in places like England and in Europe, it is more
acceptable for men to wear makeup and fake tan. You look at the guys off Jeordie Sure, and that was probably like seven years ago now, they were all rocking the fake tans. They were solarium tans, which of course
have been banned now. Well, I actually think It would be really beneficial for somebody to create a male tanning product, but get some really strong athletic men behind it, you know, like a footballer or some something that honey badger, Yeah, the honey somebody like that who you wouldn't actually think would wear fake tans. There are actually a number of fake tans on the market for men, predominantly in the UK, which is really interesting. It will be interesting take a
look at their marketing. But I think the thing that we really needed if I was producing a tanning product for men, I think it needs to be low maintenance. For me, I fake tan every week, and I don't think my boyfriend could put up with the constant exfoliation of the skin and the constant maintenance.
Well, if there is a.
Low maintenance tan, can I please have it as well, because I cannot keep up with about it?
Do you know what I reckon?
Maybe like a body butter that did a gradual tan would be really good for men because then they could start wearing it in spring and then when they go to the moisturize, though some men do. I think maybe a spraytan. I think that's probably the easiest thing, But what about their face Yeah, you can spray town a face. Yeah, but that's what looks weird if you're all one color. We would love to hear what you guys think about the topic. Please head to our Facebook group which is
Outspoken the podcast and join in on the conversation. Now, let's get into our influencer rap and we'll start it with rumors that are circulating that Shanni Grumman is about to announce her split from former AFL player Tommy bug. I've seen this one coming for a while, especially I suppose because she has moved from Melbourne to Brisbane and
I did a bit of scrolling, a bit of stalking. Now, the last post that he uploaded of Shanny was in April and her last post was in May, so there are a number of months that they have not been posting one another Devil's Advocate that has been during lockdown, and there's not really a lot of photo ops on
that time. Well, I think the biggest alarm bells for this relationship ending would be the fact she's just moved into a new home with her friend Joshua Head, who appeared in a recent video on Shanee's YouTube channel called Meet My Roommate. Let's just say I didn't realize there were rumors going on that they'd split, and I was thinking, I wonder what Tommy thinks of her living with this guy. Did well, she did address it in the video. She said,
before anyone says anything, we're just friends. We've been friends for a number of years. But I am loving the inclusion of him in it.
Voggs. It feels very old school Shanny.
At the moment, I'm predicting he will be he will rise in popularity. Here's thirty thousand followers at the moment. I'm predicting he will be some sort of new Michael Finch character on the show. Well, the thing is, the day that she put the video out with him, he scored one seven hundred and ninety new followers just on that day, and he's gone up I think by five thousand in a week, which is a.
Big rise on social media.
Well, whilst talking out Shani's housemates Instagram, we did notice a cheeky like from Shanni Grimman's ex, Jonathan Sawyer, who is currently dating Madison Woolly. Now, the photo was of both Josh and Shani. What do you guys think about that? God, I would not be happy if I was Madison. This comes off the back of Jonathan releasing a YouTube video where he and Madison were away in Threadbow and things seemed to be icy. So is that a pun because
they were both? Is it wrong that, like some part of me would love Shanni and Jonathan to get back together. I preferred the Jonathan because she hold up with this She's.
Gonna hook up with this Josh.
She can't hook up with her roommate. That's just gonna be She's gonna have to move again.
Well do you know what.
I'm wondering what this actually means for Tommy's business because he's he owns influencer management group Zoots and Shanny is. I would say she was the number one influencer on their book. It also manages influencers like Rannie, Michael Finch, Tylie Escaines who were all friends of Shanny. So if this is not an amicable split, it could be really bad business. I feel like it could be an amicable split if they have split up, because they are still
following each other. Tommy did like her photo three days ago, so maybe now they're a little bit older, more mature. But that's what happens with has split with Jonathan. Remember when they split up, Jonathan was still her manager. Then they got to back together, then Jonathan was still their manager for a while, and then things got awkward.
She needs to stop dating her managers.
Well, she's dating them first and then making them her manager. Well. The other thing is, I'm certain that she's going to announce a split soon because normally you make sort of changes that you get a new haircut if you break up. And we've got to remember when she broke up with Jonathan, she got her boobs done, and now she's got her lips dissolved. It seems after the split from Tommy. Yeah, there's something not quite right. I will wait with baited
breath to see the announcement soon. It will be interesting to see if it is a whole video like she did with Jonathan, because that attracted a huge I feel she probably shouldn't bother because she never had him on her I was going to say it wasn't as public, so I feel like, you know, maybe it won't now. The next one I want to get onto is Tylie
Escan's flog that she released last week. It is actually trending at the moment on YouTube, and the reason I really liked it is because it was actually so real and raw. Well, she opened up about her issues with their skin, so it was something that we don't really see on Talia's channel. Normally it's about her overseas travel or her glamorous life, but this was where she just she burst into tears talking about the struggles with her acne,
and I thought it was so brave to share. And I think it's so refreshing because I suppose we see such a curated and kind of fake side to her. She's always doled up to the MAC, She's always looking incredible, and I think it was really good for a follower or someone else who's struggling with their skin to see that this person who we all deem as being perfect is having their own internal battles with how they look as well.
It's so relatable.
And I suppose it's someone that's probably known for face tuning and photoshopping her photos, so for her actually to admit, hey, I've got acne, that's a huge step for her. Well. I really hope that this is a trend for her. I hope we do see some more real and raw videos like this because I'm really enjoying them.
Take this object, but beware, it carries a terrible curse.
Ooh, that's bad.
Like it comes for a free fro gut. That's good. The fro gut is also cast, that's bad. You get your choice of topping, it's good. The toppings contain potassium benzo week, that's bad. Can I go? Now?
Let's get into our reality recommendations. Now, what have you guys been watching this week that you want to recommend? I started watching ninety Day Fiance. I'm only a few episodes in, but I remembered why I loved this show so much. It feels like nine to now have just decided to give us so many good reality TV shows. I really didn't know what to choose from because they've also got us Love Island, which I haven't started watching.
Oh my god, I'm watching it. It is so good.
I was a little bit put off because people said it wasn't as good as the Australian Love Island, and I thought the Australian Love Island was trash. I can say it's better than the Australian Love Island. It's, of course not as good as UK Love Island. But if it's hard when as perfection, Yeah, but I'm actually really enjoying it. Is anyone else feeling nostalgic and going to go back and watch them Keeping Up with the Kardashians Because I was really upset to hear that twenty twenty
one is going to be the last season. Look, I'm going to call it. I don't think this is the end of Keeping Up with the Kardashians. They clearly didn't get their contracts renewed. I think that somebody else could pick it up, or will have a spin off show from either Chloe or from Chris Jenner or whoever haven't involved, or will have a spin off show when all of the kids are old enough and they're in their teenage.
That must definitely happen. What about I'm wondering because a lot of people are saying that the fact that they shared so much on social media kind of made the show not so popular because it was really outdated once we got to see it. I wonder if they could start vlogging or doing a YouTube series, that would be really cool. You know, I don't even think they share that much on their Insta stories. It's always really curated pictures.
It's not so much of that, but it's like the paparazzi caught up with them, so we knew all the drama before it was on the show. Do you know it will be interesting when the show is finally over. Before every series, we always see that push if something dramatic happening. It will be interesting to see if their vibes are a lot quiet and now they don't have
a TV show. Well, I'm wondering if they're still going to be relevant and if people are going to buy their products now the show's over, because we've seen YouTubers who bring up products they suddenly don't post any more content and then people aren't interested in them anymore. Yeah, but they've got like forty million followers on their Instagram. I think they're still going to be relevant. There's still going to be influencers at the end of the day.
They're still going to be in the media as well.
Oh and by the way, why o you apostrophe r means you are? Why do you means your Well?
I think that's all we've got time for. Thank you so much for joining us for today's episode. If you have enjoyed it, it would be incredible if you could leave us a rating and a review, and if you haven't already, we'd love if you could join our Facebook community, which is just outspoken the podcast community