Episode one, the making of High Five Together. In nineteen ninety nine, High Five burst onto the kids music scene Suck Suck. They were universally loved by kids and parents for their catchy pop music and wholesome vibes.
Our director kept saying, more energy, more energy, give us more.
That's really funny because Nathan and I took that really personally and we just kept going up and up and up. I was ready to explode. If you watched that first series I had, I was like, hi, everyone like I was that excited. At the end of the series, we were at a rat party and he said, I was never talking to you too. By the way, they even began rivaling Australian kids supergroup The Wiggles. There was one small difference though, which became a big problem for the cast. The business model.
It was busy. I mean, it was exhausting. At the same time we were teenagers. We were loving the ride, but it was long hours.
In this series we explore what was really happening behind the bubblegum illusion of Australia's most popular kids entertainers, and what happened when they were no longer paid to maintain the facade.
You have your arguments, you have your ups and your downs. It's like if you're working with someone constantly every single day for ten years. Of course there's going to be times where you getting each other's way or across the line. But all in all, we were a great family and we worked really well together.
We are journalists, Kate and Sophie Torbert, and this is outspoken. Plus I think we need to point out that we were ten years old when High five first burst onto the scene, and probably not their preschool demographic, but it's safe to say we still loved the band. They definitely did make a huge impression on me at the time, and I think that that is the key to High Fi's popularity, the fact that they didn't just appeal to their target demographic. It was also older people and parents
who loved the music were fascinated by High Five. I need to know what was your favorite High Five song, because since doing the research, I have been listening to a lot of them and they are getting stuck in my head or this is a little bit embarrassing to admit, but at our school we had red faces where for those who aren't old enough to remember on hey, hey, it's Saturday, there was a segment called Red Faces where
people would do skits and they'd get scored. So we had that at our school and we did a number of High Five performances. I think we did it to the song North, South East and Western. Also Animals, so they are my favorite. Let's throw on an upsot to remind listeners of these songs, so second Animals. I wonder if these are available on Spotify because I think I
need to make my own High five playlist now. And High five will also iconic At Carols by Candlelight, they made Carols by Candlelight and it's it's never been the same since the original cast weren't on there on Christmas Eve. Yeah. The fashion takes me back so much as well, because there's so much layering going on. There's also a lot of pedal pushes and skirts over the top of pedal pushes.
The hairstyles were also amazing. I remember Kelly always used to have these really cool twisty updos, lots of butterfly clips, yeah, butterfly clips, maybe a few slutstrands as well. And Tim his hair was always so spiky, so much hair gel going on there. Now, let's get into how it all began because the concept of High five was developed when Helen Harris and Posey Graham Evans joined forces and created
a production company called Kids Like Us. And it's pretty interesting because Harris had already had great success in early childhood entertainment because she was the creator of Bananas in Pajamas, Oh Yeah, and Graham Evans actually went on to be the mastermind behind McLeod's Daughters, so very successful women. And the idea was to try and capture kids attention by
blending educational theories with musical appeal. So Harris and Graham Evans worked on the concept with childhood educators and pitched the idea of High five to Channel nine, who snapped it up straight away. And it really helped at the time because the head of drama at nine had a
young child. Now. The auditions to find the group were held at the ABC studios in nineteen ninety eight, and in an interview with Nathan Foley, he explained that he was just eighteen at the time and he got a call telling him that there were auditions being held for new kids shows and they were looking for five presenters, singers, dancers and actors. Now Nathan was one of three hundred people that turned up to the first audition, and the
group was narrowed down until twenty five people remained. It's quite interesting because it sort of reminds me of pop stars back in the day and all of those talent shows, because the group was then split into five groups of five, and one of those groups contained Tim Harding, Kelly Crawford, Nathan Foley, Charlie Robinson, and Kathleen Dileong Jones, who went on to be the original members of High five Now.
Nathan said that their voices jelled so well together that there was this real big aha moment and producers are like, that is our group now. They started to record the pilot at the ABC, and then when Channel nine took on the show, everything started to move really quickly. I think what really set High five apart was the music, because it was able to stand alone from the show. Even as a consumer of that show, my favorite bit was the start and the end of the episode because
that's when they'd have the little concerts. Yeah, and it's interesting because the creators of High five took inspiration from the Spy Scales dance moves and they believed that preschoolers could copy them, and they really did. We saw it with songs like North, South, East and West. I mean the kids sometimes got a little bit confused which direction
to go in. I think it seemed a lot cooler than The Wiggles as well, because the performers were wearing clothes that were very of the time, and they role models for the kids. Well. The group style was modeled on the fast paced nature of pop music, and in a recent interview, Nathan Foley reflected on the success of High Five and he put it down to the show's ability to relate to botho kids and parents, and he said parents could actually sit down and have a bit
of a laugh as well. Again, he said the music was a very big part of it because, as you said, it was pop orientated and while lyrically it was for the kids, musically it was produced just like pop music, so if you did get rid of the lyrics, you could easily play it on radio. It's pretty crazy because in the same year that the show launched, Sony Music released High Five's debut album, which was called Jump and Jive, and it reached number thirty three on the ARIA album charts.
What Play is My Mind looking back at this time is just how young the members of the group were when it first launched. So Charlie Robinson was the youngest she was only eighteen, while Kelly was the oldest at twenty five. And the idea was that High five weren't meant to be childhood educators, but they were meant to be more like older siblings or friends to the kids,
and I think this really worked well. At the time, no one really knew how rapidly this show was going to take off, and it really didn't take long for High Five to become one of Australia's most success for musical groups. The show was actually broadcast daily into eighty
one countries. They also topped the music charts, with four of their albums reaching the top ten and receiving five consecutive ARIA Music Awards for Best Children's Album and the original group also received three Logis for Most Outstanding Children's Program.
And as you mentioned, they had this international fan base, which meant they were regularly touring across Australia, Britain, New Zealand and Singapore and merchandise was another huge part of their success, so High Five actually had a range at Kama which was not just clothing and accessories, but also included dinnerware, games, craft products, backpacks, luggage, Christmas and Easter confectionery, and even a jumping castle and carousel. Now success didn't
come easy though. The young group members worked really hard. So they had forty five episodes to record each series, and they spent three months each year recording the show. So on a Sunday they would get their scripts and then they'd spend three days rehearsing what they were going
to film, and then two days filming it. Now, the filming days started very early in the morning and didn't end until seven or eight at night, and in terms of rehearsals, this involved learning scripts off by heart for their segments, as well as new songs because they didn't have an AUTOQ. And when they weren't filming, they toured for seven months of the year, doing three one and a half hour shows a day, six days a week around Australia, Asia, New Zealand and the whole of the UK.
And after all of that they were allowed one month off a year. I didn't realize that they were working the cast members this hard. Now, despite the very grueling schedules, there still wasn't enough time for them to tap into the American market, so another High Five was actually created, and in a recent interview, Nathan Foley spoke about how he nearly ended up in hospital from the exhausting schedule. Let's throw to what he said.
It was busy. I mean it was exhausting. At the same time, I think there's not a lot of groups in the world that actually do the TV thing but also do the recording also, so go and visit the children's hospitals and also have no time. You know, we were teenagers were loving the ride, but it was long hours.
Now, while people often compared High Five and The Wiggles, there was a major difference between these two kids entertainment groups, which was the business model. So the original members of The Wiggles actually created their own concept and therefore they owned the franchise and merchandising rights, whereas with High Five, their members were paid a salary by the production company which created them. So in terms of money, the Wiggles
definitely reigned supreme. In two thousand and eight, they topped business magazines Business Reviews Weekly annual list of top earning entertainers with forty five million dollars. High five ended up coming in fifth place that year with eighteen million. However, as I said, the members of High five did not hold equity. I would really love to know what their salaries were at the time and to have seen the growth during the success.
Yeah.
Well, it seems like the production company did look after the original faces of High five. But the thing is, as soon as you left the group, you didn't get paid anymore, so you're not living off the royalties like the Wiggles. I mean in saying that the Wiggles did write their own songs, it sounds like High five weren't involved in that actual creative process. So I understand perhaps not making royalties off the songs themselves, but they were the faces of the brand. Well, their personal ip was
the brand. When you look at some of the merchandise back then, it was literally cartoons based on them, like they were the faces of this brand. I did see recently that Sophia Bush was complaining about when she was working on One Tree Hill that they often got used to do ads and never got paid anything because they said, oh, well, that's just to promote the show. That's the difficulty. When there's a bunch of young people who were really eager
for their big break. They'll sign anything just to get their foot in the door, and unfortunately those contracts have long standing consequences. Yeah, and I think because everyone knew how much the Wiggles were making and then saw High Five were making a lot, you just assume that the
talent on the show is also rolling in it. And Nathan recalled in an interview how he received a lot of backlash when he appeared on I Will Survive after leaving High Five, and people were saying he was too loaded to go on the show and he didn't need the money, and he said, well, unfortunately, that's actually not the case. Did you ever feel like there was a
bit of competition between High Five and the Wiggles? Well, as a kid, I love the Wiggles, but I feel like I progressed to High Five, even though I was probably too old to like High Five. And you would assume, because there were only three big kids bands at the time, that there would be some sort of competition, because really it was High Five, the Wiggles, and to a lesser extent than Holy Dook God, I've totally forgot about the Hooly Doolies. But Nathan Foley has confirmed that there was
literally no competition between the bands. They said that they used to do photo shoots together and they have actually remained friends. Nathan even performed at the Wiggles reunion tour back in twenty twenty for the Bushfire Appeal. Isn't that so wholesome? I love the fact that there wasn't anything
unsavory going on behind the scenes. Two thousand and six, sadly was the beginning of the end for the original group when Kathleen announced she was pregnant and son Park was brought in as her temporary replacement while she was on maternity leave. And while Kathleen was intent on returning to High five in two thousand and seven, she decided to make her decision a permanent one to focus on motherhood.
So while Kathleen was the first member to leave, by the end of two thousand and eight, all the original cast members had been replaced. So this is in a span of two years. I totally forgot this. But Tim was the next original member to leave the group, and he left because he got injured in a serious motorcycle
accident in June two thousand and seven. So the poor thing ended up fracturing his spine and he was in a wheelchair for six weeks, and his injuries left him unable to keep up with the pace of High Five's performances, and he was replaced by his understudy, Stevie Nicholson. He officially ended up leaving the group in November two thousand
and seven after recovering from his injuries. Things were starting to crumble because just three months later, Charlie decided to leave the group because she wanted to pursue acting, and
Casey Burgess was brought in as Charlie's replacement. Big changes were also happening on the business side of things, so the Nine network and production company Southern Star purchased the High five brand in March two thousand and eight, and this meant the original creators Harris and Graham Evans were no longer involved in the franchise, and just seven months after this, Kelly announced she would be leaving the group at the end of the year to explore other options.
A month later, Nathan said he would be leaving to focus on his adult music career. Then in December, Kathleen's replacement, Sun Park, revealed she too would be leaving as she
had only really signed on to be a temporary replacement. Now, based on all of these exits, rumors started swelling that Southern Star, who was the new production company, had dumped Kelly and Nathan because they wanted to recruit younger and cheaper replacements, and it was reported that Nathan and Kelly's farewell at Karras by Candlelight was going to be a strained affair, with sources close to the Grip claiming the
pair had been jilted by the production company. To make matters worse, allegedly, Kelly and Nathan had been dropped without consultation, and according to a source, Nathan was allegedly the last year that his High Five days were numbered. So apparently what happened is he stopped for petrol on the Northeast coast and a guy at the petrol station said to him, Hey, my brother just got your job yesterday. Now this was the first time he'd heard he was being replaced. That
is so crushing. What are the odds of him stopping at the specific petrol station that his replacements brother is working on like the High five production team must have been for Fox says now, there were media reports circulating about this, and the source was spilling all of this news to a journalist. I mean, let's be honest, I'd
assume that the source was Nathan. Well, look, they tried to cover Nathan's tracks because they did say he refused to comment on the matter, and quoted him saying, look, I really don't want to talk about it. I've got a contract until Christmas and I intend to honor it. When the main person in the story he says I don't want to talk about it, that means they've already
spoken behind the scenes. Yeah. Well, at the time, Sunpark had to come out and deny she had felt pressure to leave the group alongside Kelly and Nathan, and she also reiterated that it was Kelly and Nathan who had resigned. Looking back, I do think it seems quite feasible that the decision around out seeing Kelly and Nathan was down to money, because the original members of the group were on very high salaries, which was a problem when you
then start bringing these new people in. Also, it becomes an issue because they were doing so much touring. So when there's extensive touring, maybe the company thought, fuck, we can't afford this. I suppose it does make sense from a financial perspective to replace them with younger talent, and the new members ended up being a decade younger than Kelly and Nathan and presumably a lot cheaper to employee
for concerts. That being said, I think it was detrimental to the overall brand because, as you said, Kate, the original members, they were on lunchboxes, they were on all of the merch. Everyone loved those cast members, and I don't think that they've ever been as relevant since they got rid of all of the original cast members. Well, Channel nine clearly thought that they could just replace the original cast and everything would be fine. They recommitted to
five new series to be aired until twenty thirteen. However, only three of these series ended up being produced, and they had this plan that they thought that they didn't need to rely solely on the appeal of the cast members as individuals, but it was clear they began backtracking by season two because they said that they were trying to recreate the success of the earlier episodes by capturing that earlier innocence, and in the thirteenth and final series
of High five and twenty eleven they even went back to reintroducing fans to the old songs in a bid to make it popular again. Well, it does make sense because all of the kids had grown up by then, so they wouldn't really know any different. I do find it interesting that they said that their initial strategy was to not concentrate on the cast members as individuals, because when they brought over Casey Burgers to replace Charlie Robinson used to be on Girls TV. Do you remember that
shel TV? Girl TV. I think a lot of our listeners will remember it. It's like it's a girl. Don't get that mad head. I've got enough for those songs. So she already had a bit of a profile in the children's entertainment space, so I thought she was a really clever pickup. That being said, they were probably fearful that they would have the same thing in this second generation of High Five. They'd slowly lose class members and
lose relevance and want more money. Yeah, it will happen again. Yeah. Well.
By twenty twelve, nine were forced to sell High five to a Malaysian equity group called Ajion's following financial difficulty at the network, and this new production company shifted High Five's commercial focus to the Southeast Asian market, and they also wanted to have new group members, so the audition process was filmed and actually turned into a documentary style film called Some Kind Of Wonderful, which premiered exclusively through
Hoyts Cinemas and after extensive touring, this new group released a spinoff show called High five House, which was filmed in Singapore and Malaysia between twenty thirteen and fifteen. Wow, that's pretty crazy. I wasn't aware of this High five House. It's pretty wild to think how long the brand actually lasted though, from nineteen ninety nine till twenty fifteen. They kind a good run. No, well, they still continued their runs.
So in twenty sixteen, the Nine Network renewed its partnership with the High five franchise and announced they were planning to revive High five with the new cast in twenty seventeen, and while it would feature a newcast and set, Nine retained the original team of producers and writers, and the show was filmed in Malaysia and aired at the start of twenty seventeen on nine Go Now. A second series was planned for twenty eighteen, but filming was halted and
the Australian production office was closed. The brand then relocated to Singapore and all five members left the group, so temporary touring members were used for the remainder of twenty eighteen, with the franchise continuing to employ non permanent performers for touring purposes in twenty nineteen. So it seemed like at the end they were just like, can anyone just sing and dance in this group? The songs were really good. If you've got strong writing with songs, I think that
is going to set you in a good stead. But the fact is kids want to know the performers they do. And the difference with High Five compared to the Wiggles at that time was they actually were a little bit diverse in that they had females and males. And I know everyone absolutely loved Kathleen because she was Filipino. And I think as a kid, you really aligned to your favorite member in the group. It might be one that
looks like you or has similar attributes to you. And I think when they started replacing them with whoever, it lost that sparkle. Yeah, now that's where we are going to leave things today. On next week's episode, we'll be diving straight into all the juicy scandals, including a controversial men's magazine shoot, a sex scandal, and a secret engagement. Plus we will explore where the original cast members are now.
I can't wait for that. I cannot wait now. This podcast was recorded on the traditional land of the Ghana people of the Adelaide Planes. We pay respect to elders past and present and if you do enjoy the show, we would love to see you share about it on your Instagram stories. And thank you so much again for being an outspoken Plus subscriber. We really appreciate it.