Hello, and welcome to Outspoken. It's your dose of the hottest influencer and pop culture news twice a week. I'm Sophie Torba and coming up on today's show, a young woman is claiming the husband of a well known Aussie influencer has impregnated her. Anna macavoy calls Matt Sakowski out for not inviting her to his joint Bucks party and
the cookie pop up labeled a scam. But first, twin sisters and influencers, Bridget and Dannielle for Long have shocked the Internet after revealing they share their underwear and only have one brush between them.
Yeah.
So, the twenty seven year old influencers share over seven hundred and twenty five thousand followers on Instagram, and they were interviewed on the Gows on the Go podcast when they made the shot confession. Let's have a listen to what they said.
We only have one bra.
We okay, stop, and we share underwear. So we share underwear like a share drawer.
Yeah, and we only have one brad because it bras. But whenever we need a bra, we're like, wait, we're fighting over it, and well right.
Now I'm worried.
But ones need ones black, and and I just like know what that is so niche, like the shares are going to be like you guys are just.
As a triplet. I kind of get the sharing of underpants. Maybe it's told me not to say this, but I kind of get it, because if you live together and you're doing the washing, sometimes you might get confused about which pairs yours. But what has stumped me is the fact that they share bras, Like that is a sure fire way to have a huge argument, because what if one day you're wearing a white top, or you're both wearing white tops and you want the white bra, Like
that's just pandemonium. Well, I actually think it's more revolting to share underpants than it is a bra. They get washed, just like this stuff going on. Like I think when we were kids, we probably incidentally shared underpants because whose parent is really separating their undies? But when we moved in together, it was clear, these are my undies, these are your unders. Some of them could have been mixed up, but I'm off, I'm pretty chilled with this sort of
stuff like that discuss me. Like, to be honest, I've got a couple of pairs of cats underpants at my house that somehow got intertwined when we moved, and I just wear them like, oh, I don't care. This is disgusting, and I just can sense some kind of daily mail article.
Hopefully who cares they get what?
It's funny because you just mentioned about the white and the black bra. Because after the girls made the confession on this podcast, one of the hosts said, well, who's wearing the bra today? And they said, well, actually we both have a bra on, so we have one black bra and one white bra. But things do get heated if they need that one colored bra. Yeah, well I can. That's just stupid, like just go and buy a bra each. Obviously well off as well. They've got seven hundred and
twenty five thousand followers. Maybe this was a ploy to get some launderie brands to send them some on the surprise, I mean, as if they haven't had any already sending them stuff. I also think it's because it's a new cool girl young thing not to wear bras anymore. Like I've heard on the grapevine that small perky tits is apparently in fashion. I mean, I don't know when it went out of fashion, having perky tits, but it happily everyone wants small tits.
So we are in fashion amy.
Yes, well I did notice this because a lot of the mannequins in the stores don't have bras on as well. How old does that make me sound? But a lot of people have had a lot of opinions on this online. So there were twins who were weighing into the comment section of the now viral podcast clip. One twin said, my twin and I don't even hug, let alone share underwear. No straight to jail, and otherwise said my twin and
I would first fight every day if we did this. Now, there were some other sisters defending the girl's decision, and they said, well, they have the same DNA. Well, another twin said, she and her sister also do this. I don't think it's weird. I actually do not think it's weird at all.
I mean, a twenty.
Seven to share underpay.
I don't think it's weird because they probably live together.
It's probably very difficult, they're.
The same size.
It's an I mean, it's quite a smart decision because you only have to do one load of washing, Like I share a towel with my partner. That's gross. I'm sorry, you're a grub and I'm concerned now that do you have my underwear in your house?
No, you've got I wouldn't fucking take your underwear.
Well, okay, old bond shit. So if I've said to you, Sophie, oh, I don't know, like say you had to get changed, I was like, here's a pair of my underpants. You can wear them. Would you wear them?
Depends what type they were.
I would not if you said, I'd have the fucking difference between socks.
There's something intimate about sharing someone's underpants.
I think it's weird.
Now.
What I love about these girls is they have been having fun with this. So they recently shared a TikTok joking that they were finally moving away from each other after living together their whole lives, and in the video, the girls are seen fighting over the nude bra. I wonder if they were caught off guard about this, because you know, there's some like multiple like twin triplet things that you think are normal and then suddenly when you repeat it to another person, you're like, oh, fuck, this
is actually quite weird. No, I think they were aware that they were going to shit over this. We're going to put something up on our Instagram and in our Facebook community. Any twins, triplets, sisters reach out?
Do you share the same underpants? And is it weird? Chris paying seventeen dollars fifty for a stale fucking cookie?
Not me.
Australian fans of US cookie giant Crumble thought they were in for a sweet treat when news broke on social media that a pop up shop selling the popular cookies was coming to North Bondai.
However, fans have labeled.
The pop up store as a scam and accuse the organizers of selling stale cookies.
Amy, I need to know more about this.
Yeah, well, a lot of people on TikTok are currently saying that this is their Roman Empire. So hundreds of people lined up to get their hands on the popular cookies after seeing promotions all over Instagram and Facebook from an account called Crumble Sydney. Now, for those who haven't heard of Crumble, it is a US owned store which started in twenty seventeen and it has spread across the
US and Canada. There are currently no Crumble stores in Australia, so this is why a lot of people got excited when they heard about the pop up store, and what has sparked a lot of anger. Firstly is the price of the cookies. So a Crumble cookie in the US will set you back around five US dollars, which is the equivalent of seven Australian dollars. However, when people arrived at this pop up store, they were being charged seventeen
dollars fifty per cookie. Like, firstly, who has seventeen dollars fifty in this cost of living crists to spend on a cookie? That is extortion. I'm sorry, that is absolutely taking the piss and taking advantage of people. Well, you could get a box of five cookies for forty five dollars, still fucking crazy. And they were also selling Crumble cookie cutters for a whopping seventy five dollars each one cookie.
Yeah, oh fuck Wait what's the shape of the cookie cutter?
What a circle? Yeah? Nothing that remarkable. And a lot of the people in this line were actually TikTokers because people were wanting to do a lot of the taste test videos. So I saw one woman on TikTok who
had bought ten cookies costing one hundred and seventy five dollars. Now, the shit really hit the fan after the pop up when dozens of disappointed customers hit out at the organizers on social media and they started to complain that the cookies tasted stale, and it became evident that the event was not a real Crumble pop up, and unhappy customers
started labeling the organizers as deceptive and dishonest. Now can you believe that it has actually come out that the event was organized by some randoms who basically just flew to the US, bought a thousand Crumble cookies over there, and flew them back like that is a reality.
Wait now, then how did they fly them all back? Though?
Like what they brought? So many suits? They cases or sent them. I mean, no, one of these things was stale. They'll probably tasted like rocks, I know. So everything basically began unraveling online, and that's when the organizers shut down their Instagram page and they started removing all of their posts on TikTok and they tried to distance themselves from
this firestorm. So the backlash prompted the organizers to finally release a statement which is linked on their TikTok account, and it's funny because they've since changed their bio so it now reads not endorsed by Crumble, just fans importing now. The release they put out was incredibly detailed, and I think this is because this is becoming a huge story. It's making international headlines. And in the statement they confirmed they were not officially Crumble, but claimed it was clearly
stated in their bio and comments. They wrote, our goal was to bring the authentic Crumble cookies to Australia by importing the cookies directly from the USA. They also confirmed that the cookies were genuine Crumble cookies because there are a lot of people on TikTok saying well did they just bring in the boxes and make their own cookies, So they confirmed that they traveled to the US to purchase them and they imported them with their original packaging.
They even included receipts to show exactly how much they paid for the cookies. The statement also addressed the trademark concern saying at no point did they use their trademark
in their videos on TikTok. But if you look at all of the videos on TikTok of the pop up store that other people are sharing, you can clearly see that the Crumble logo is on a lot of the marketing material now in regards to food stanits because there was a lot of concern by TikTok users saying, well, what would have happened if someone got seriously ill from one of these cookies?
And how old are they?
Yeah, so a lot of people were actually saying I actually felt quite sick after consuming one. So the organizers claim that the Crumble cookies should be kept at room temperature in an air tight container for up to three days or refrigerated for ups a day for a cookie to last, particularly when you consider the fact that they're full of sugar, which makes them last longer. Yeah, they would have been awful. So the organizer said, we kept
them to these requirements. Some were warm to enhance their texture, which is what Crumble does as well. I mean, what kind of proof do they have though, because they were importing a huge amount of cookies into the country, Like, I highly doubt that these were refrigerated. Now, things got really juicy when they released information on their apparent profits and costs. So the organizers claimed it was never about making money from this pop up. They said it was
all about bringing the cookies to crumble fans. So is that why they charged extortionate prices and seventy five dollars for a fucking cookie cutter? Like, come on, I think they know they're in the wrong because they've even itemized their costs. So they've said they spent four thousand dollars on flights and luggage to get the cookies back. I mean, I'm sure they probably went over and had a bit of a holiday in the US. Yeah, go over to
get cookies. Oh, it was all very professional. Why am I getting in my head newman from Seinfeld when he was brought in with all of the bad of muffins, Like for some reason, I just imagine this, you know, just all these cookies in different suitcases makes me feel sick. They also said that they spent six thousand dollars on the cookies and packaging, two thousand dollars on duties and taxes because they did claim the cookies when they brought them into Australia, and they said they spent over one
thousand dollars on staff fees. So this equals thirteen thousand dollars in costs. Now, if you do the sums they had around one thousand cookies which they were selling for seventeen dollars fifty so I'm not taking into account the cookie cutters, but they would have made around seventeen and a half grand. So they're trying to imply that they only made a profit of four and a half grand. I mean, would you really go to all of this
effort for four and a half grand? Well, I feel like they would have made a fuck time if anyone was buying those cookie cutters as well. But it's clear that they did this for a profit. They didn't just do it out of the goodness of their hearts, because they're so keen to bring these cookies to Australia and it's such a dumb move because they've opened themselves up to one what if people got really sick from the cookies? Two the legalities around taking a brand's name and pretending
that you're part of that brand. They were on the legal front. They also went on to claim in this statement that what they did wasn't illegal, so they said it is called parallel importing. So parallel importing is defined as a business who buys genuine products from overseas and imports and sells them in Australia without authorization from the manufacturer. So it's also known as gray importing. So a business who is supplying parallel imports must one make sure the
products comply with Australian Product safety and labeling requirements. And this is where I think they might be in a bit of hot water, because I don't know if they can actually say that it complied with Australian Food and Safety lord. Where was it written that the cookies had to be refrigerated after three days or whatever they're saying. Where I think they might get in hot water is
under the consumer rights section of parail importing. It states that people engaging in parallel importing cannot identify a relationship or any association between the seller and the manufacturer. And they have come out on Instagram and TikTok calling themselves Crumble Sydney. If you are Joe Blow and you see that, you just assume they are part of the Crumble business. This story is everywhere and the Today Show interviewed Sydney
lawyer Johann Kalanta who weighed in on the debacle. So he said it was clearly a case of them scamming people and he even went as far as suggesting that the real Crumble should pursue legal action. He said, the reality is they passed themselves off as Crumble, and once they were called out online, all of a sudden, they were claiming they're just cookie enthusiasts. They said they were just here to provide an experience or a taste, but
as a trademark infringement. Now it's unclear whether the company will actually take legal action against his pop up stores. So far, we have only heard from one of Crumble's co founders, Sawyer Hemsley. So he actually commented on an Australian tiktoker's video and she had obtained ten of the Crumble cookies from Sydney and he wrote, you need to try them fresh in the USPS. This pop up is not affiliated with Crumble Cookie, so it's quite clear the
big wigs are aware of what is happening. Now, Sophie, do you think this is actually good or bad pr for Crumble? I've never heard of Crumble before, which I mean people are probably like, what the hell, But I haven't. I've never traveled to America, so I don't understand the total craze over this cookie. So For me, it's maybe more curious to think about wonder what it tastes like, wonder what the different flavors are.
And clearly the.
Fact that there were thousands of people or hundreds of people lining the street and willing to pay seventeen fifty for a cookie, it shows that they must be delicious, and it shows that it's a brand that there's a lot of interest and intrigue around. Well, this pop up star has almost done a lot of hardin lifting for Crumble because they've already tested the market for them. They
know people want it desperately. But I think there are aspects that's quite bad for Crumble because a lot of people might not have been able to differentiate between the real Crumble store and this pop up and they might assume that this is what their cookies taste like, old and stale. Well, so it's probably good for Crumble that there has been so much publicity around it, though we'll have to wait and see what actually happens to the organizers.
I think this will not be the last we hear of this story.
You were fucking about to blow this man's lifer.
Popular author Kate Forster has dropped a bomb on TikTok revealing that the husband of a well known Aussie influencer has allegedly impregnated a young woman he was having an affair with. Now, before we get into the weeds, as a refresher, who is Kate Forster. Well, her name will sound familiar because back in August we discussed how she'd gone viral for calling out the Henny Cardigan that was actually one of my favorites in a long time, And
since then she has exploded in popularity on TikTok. She has over sixty thousand followers, and she offers advice and she does funny reviews.
I absolutely love her content.
I think she is a legend and she's really taken on this new role of an agony art, which is why I think so many people feel comfortable sending her in gossip.
Because she said that her dms are full.
Of information about influencers or people in the public eye, and she doesn't know what people want her to do with the information. Now, usually Kate sits on information like this, However, she decided to reveal a few details, so on TikTok she shared a video entitled Secrets in the Dms and added the tea is brewing now. In this video, Kate revealed that a woman in her early twenties is allegedly having an affair with the husband of a quite well
known Aussie influencer. Now, the young woman claims she is now pregnant and wants to keep the baby, but the husband is adamant he doesn't want to keep it and has not told his wife about the affair. Now, the reason that Kate chose to divulge this rumor is because she believes the information is true. Here's what she said.
It's just the wife is selling this lifestyle and it's not like that because the husband is fucking groping for trout in a peculiar river, as Shakespeare once said. So as far as I could tell, and she sent me some Instagram receipts, I think it is true. And I said to her, you are fucking about to blow this man's life up if you go public with his because she wants to go public. And I said, and you're going to blow the wife's life up because she clearly
doesn't know, or it looks like she doesn't know. I don't know. You can't tell anything about social media.
I feel really sorry for this particular influencer if this is true, because it would be awful having all of these people know this information about you but you don't know anything about it yet. Yeah, I feel a lot of sympathy for her as well. Kate was careful not to outline too many distinguishing details about the couple to the point where I'm struggling to figure out who it is myself, and I think it would be irresponsible for us to even guess guess who it is because we
have no idea. We don't even know if this story is true. This is just a rumor now. The only real clues are that the wife is an Aussie influencer who is trying to build a TikTok following, so that could be so many people, and that the couple are selling this lifestyle that doesn't appear to be true. So I'm guessing they post about having the perfect family and the perfect relationship and our in defense of this Oussie influencer.
If she doesn't know about the cheating, maybe she thinks that her and her husband do have a perfect relationship and she's been blindsided by the whole thing, so what she is sharing online feels real to her.
If that makes sense.
Yeah. I mean, look, we've spoken about it before. A lot of what you see on Instagram and TikTok, we all know it's fake.
Yeah, well this just makes me feel so because can.
You imagine if your husband was having an affair and instead of him or this woman coming to you privately and telling you what happened, you find out by literally a TikTok video like someone going public about it online, presumably for Clout as well. He was gonna say, I mean, what are her motivations for going public? I mean, if she really wants the wife to know, why doesn't she just contact her in her DMS and said why does I have to be so public? And also why is she contacting Kate Forster?
Yeah?
I don't understand why you would DM a total stranger about this private information. The only reason I can think of is that this woman is incredibly young, and she's pregnant at the moment, so she probably feels out of control and really vulnerable. And maybe she's going to Kate because she's seen her videos online. Maybe she views her as a bit of a motherly figure and she can't
speak to her friends and family in her life. Maybe they don't know that this affair has been going on, and she doesn't feel like she can trust anyone else, or maybe she feels like they're going to her.
But it is quite a weird thing to do.
It is really weird. I have noticed this trend on TikTok though, where a lot of former influencers or just general people are calling out influencers but not naming them and saying they've had this run in or this happened to an event, and it's kind of I mean, we're obviously talking about it now, we're not naming any names, but one as a viewer, it's incredibly frustrating because you want to know who they're talking about. And I also really enjoy it because it's almost that fun game of
working out who it is, which can be damaging as well. Yeah, the only people who would not be having fun with this trend is the influencers themselves, so the tagged in the comments section. Yeah. Well, I also think there's probably a part of this young woman who wants the information to go public, and that's why she's telling Kate. Maybe she thinks that by Kate putting this video out there, it'll act as a bit of a warning to the husband that she means business and maybe it'll force him
to tell the wife. Let's hope he's following Kate Forster so you can see the video.
I was interested here Kate's advice to the woman.
So she told her that she is always going to be the mistress and that she is basically going to fuck up her life by going public with this news. She also told her that the husband is probably having numerous affairs and she's not special, and that if she goes ahead with her pregnancy, her future child is going to grow up with this shit. Dad wow. And also if the wife does find out, that kid will probably never be included in any family things. I mean, advice
is pretty spot on. Well, she has got a point there, because if you think about any traditional media stories that come out on mistresses or affairs, it is always the woman's fault somehow. Well, it's quite interesting because I don't know if Kate has been monitoring her comments section, because surprisingly there haven't been many guesses as to who the
couple is. I think that she's kept it so vague that people aren't really sure, which is a good thing but also a bad thing because I wonder how many married Ossie influences are now suspicious of their husbands over this past week, like shaking their phone. She's probably had to keep it vague for legal reasons as well, because you can't be making it too niche. There aren't that
many OZSI influencers out there. It's pretty funny because in Kate's comment section, people are calling her the real life gossip girl and said that her advice was spot on, and another follower said, what a loser husband sticking his unprotected dick wherever he wants and has a wife at home.
I hope he gets what he deserved. The response was quite mixed in our Facebook group though, because many people were saying that they love Kate and she's the best thing to happen to TikTok, whilst others felt like she'd lost them on this one. They thought it wasn't really funny, particularly when children are involved. Well, I'm just surprised it hasn't popped up on OZSI influencer updates or something like that. I have a bit of a bones pick with you.
Former Love islander Anna McAvoy has been left off the invite list of Tammy Hembro and matt's Kowski's joint Hucks party. The festivities are kicking off this weekend on the Gold Coast, with Anna making it clear she's hurt not to be included. So Anna brought it up on her and Matt's joint podcast. Let's have a listen to what she said.
So, Matt Zukowski, sitting in front of me right here, invited my brother before I even copped and invite. I actually had to ask for an invite from you, which is actually rude crash my hens party.
But you didn't. You were like, do you have anything to ask me? You answered the phone call like that.
It's just about the fact that we are long term friends.
Didn't want to be business partners. Do you want to waste anyone's time? It would be nice to help an invite. Well, did I not say you're more than welcome to come? I just I don't want to be more than welcome to come. I want to be invited.
More than welcome to come. Feels like a pity party.
What an absolute cop out to say.
Oh, you're more than welcome to come.
I would not feel comfortable one to book flights to the Gold Coast to attend a party where I didn't get a proper invite because you would literally feel like you were a second thought and as if you were intruding on this. So the bad PR train for Matzakowski is continuing. It's not a good look for him. I mean, Anna sounded genuinely hurt, like you could tell her in her voice.
And there's gonna be so much.
Hype around this Hucks party as well, there's gonna be it's gonna be all over social media. He would feel so excluded. It's like a high school when you don't get invited to the big party and you know what's happening that weekend. And I always think that exclusion is
a form of bullying, like at school. I wonder if it's because it's only Matt's male friends that are coming as his half of this Hucks party, or he said that he didn't invite her because she doesn't quote unquote like the culture that his mates bring when he hangs out with them. The douchebag, Well that's what I was gonna say. So does that mean he acts like an immature jerk around his friends or maybe his friends are not trustworthy when they're on the piss like again, that.
Did not paint a good picture.
Can I just add in before we get anybody commenting in our reviews that we've stuffed up the word Bucks party, We're actually referring to a Hucks party. Now that is a term for a joint Hens and Bucks party. Well, in terms of who he's inviting, he has eight male friends, so a handful of them are his groomsmen. So I get why it could maybe feel weird if Anna was
joining them doing all the blokey activities. But I think at the heart of this, she could have been invited to Tammy's section of it because they're all planning on meeting up at the end of the night at this airbnb to keep the party going, so she could have a bit separate. Yeah, so it's separate, so she but
but Anna could have hung out with the girls. And I get that Tammy maybe having a smaller group of close friends, but you think he would try and include Anna because she is Matt's close friend and business part Okay, now I get it a little bit more. Because I initially thought that this Hucks party was one joint party.
I didn't realize they were having separate things. I think maybe this is a case of that Tammy doesn't really want her there, and she probably is friendly with Anna, but if she's only having super close friends, then having Matt's podcast host come there it probably, I don't know, it might open the door up for other people who now will be offended, but they were invited. I just think it plays into these consistent rumors that there's beef between the two of them, and that started when Tammy
was promoting Bondi San's and not Anna's tanning company. And then Anna put out this cryptic video which seemed like it was about Tammy, which I actually think is all crap. But the sad thing is it just sort of buys into this theory that they're not close, even though, as you say, if you were just having a super tight and intimate HENS party, you don't really want hangers on. But in this case, it's clear that Anna is upset about it, and I think it's also extra rude of
Matt because Matt attended her Hens party. Yeah, so she had a three day event and he dropped past to be involved in the game. She said that he crashed the party, and it did seem like Tammy wasn't actually invited. To Anna's Hen's party as well. But if you think about it, that was back in April, so Tammy and Matt had only been together for five months, and Anna and Tammy don't live in the same state, so it's not as though they've exactly had all of this time
to get close and hang out with each other. But now that they are going to be friends for life, I do think Anna could have been included. I just think it's a case of Matt not explaining things properly to Anna and not having that sensitive conversation where he's like, I really want you there, but I don't know, would you feel comfortable being around my friends?
But if she joined up when everyone got together at the.
End, yeah, but are you really flying all the way to the Gold Coast to meet up at like twelve o'clock at night.
Yeah.
I just think it's such a weird idea because Matt said that it was his idea to do the joint party, and his reason was that he wanted his friends and Tammy's friends to get to know each other and build
a rapport before the wedding. But is it really good to meet up when everyone's shit faced at the end of the night, Like, isn't that when you don't want to meet people because they're at their most obnoxious, Especially after hearing Tammy's sisters interviewed on Matt and Anna's podcast, I feel like I want to be a fly on the wall of this Hucks party. It's going to go off.
I wonder if the whole Hucks party thing was down to a breakdown of trust, because you know, wild shit goes on at Bucks parties, and maybe he knew that Tammy would feel more comfortable knowing that they were sharing a bed at the end of the night instead of
it being sort of up in the air. Well, Matt revealed it's actually his best man that is planning the party, and so far he knows that his best mates are all flying in from Melbourne, So all the boys are heading to an activity, then going to dinner for steak and whiskeys, and then they're joining up with Tammy and the girls at a joint rental. I can kind of see even more why Anna wasn't invited, Like, really, she didn't want to go to a fucking steak restaurant with
these guys, But I think the complete opposite. She should have been invited to Tammy's shindy, Like, yeah, Tammy probably didn't want to there as we've just a stab. But again, I've been on the receiving end of this where I wasn't invited to a former partner's best friends hen's party, and it doesn't feel good because you're like, well, they especially if they have.
A large group of people going, You're like, well do they not like me?
Like?
Why didn't I make the cart?
Very awkward, particularly when this is going to be all over social media, like you would just feel like you were missing out. Now, Matt has one big job to take care of ahead of his wedding, and that is the removal of his ex girlfriend's name, which is tattooed across his ass. So he has Jen written on his right bum cheek with a huge love heart around it. It's something that I personally would want my partner to
get rid of before we officially tied the knob. I don't think he's going to be able to get rid of it before November, because I'm pretty sure you have to have about a four week break between each lazer session.
This wasn't his f laser session.
He had been putting it off because he found the other session so painful. Why is he advertising this though, Well, he's advertising it because he had a paid partnership, so he realized he could monetize this process and he lined up a deal with a numbing cream brand, so he is taking his followers along for the journey and said he was able to return to get it removed because he had the numbing cream, which made it less wowful.
We'll remember Tammy had Matt's name tattooed on her. I think he was at a White Fox abouts and he.
Ended up having Tammy on him as well.
Oh okay, so he hasn't learned his lesson. He's got a list of girls on tattooed on him. Now, we've had so much to cover in today's episode that we're going to keep our highs and lows of the week for our Subs episode, which comes out on Friday. But thank you so much for joining us for this episode. It was a lot of fun. Don't forget to follow us on Instagram and on TikTok at Outspoken Underscore the Underscore podcast.
This podcast was recorded on the traditional.
Land of the Ghana people of the Adelaide Planes. We pay respect to elders past, impresent,