This is Outspoken. The podcast is not afraid to say exactly what you're thinking. Our names are Amy Kate and Sophie Torvah. We're identical triplets, but we often don't have identical opinions, so sometimes things can get heated. Outspoken covers all things reality TV, influences, entertainment, and issues facing women.
That is so fat Thank you.
Now we've got the dream team here today, it's just Sophie and Amy. Kate has been spending the whole day spoiling her boyfriend. It is his thirtieth birthday today, and I'm very excited because he has been teasing us for years now about the fact that we are in our thirties. I love that you say that she's spoiling Reese today because he's at work. She's just been running errands because she's got a surprise dinner for him tonight, and also she's moving into her new home today.
Yeah, it's absolutely crazy.
She's been rushing around town trying to get balloons, a cake, and then also organize the final papers for a house.
You know, it was hilarious.
Kate asked me at lunchtime if I could quickly come down with her to collect these balloons because she wanted to hide them at my house. And as we were driving back, she noticed Reese's car behind us, and he was trying to speed up to see what was in the car, because he's not meant to know that there's a surprise party happening. Anyway, we decided to take a left turn a shortcut to the house so we'd miss
him anyway. It turns out it wasn't even Reese. It was just some random guy with the same car as him. I'm glad that the secret is safe because I almost ruined it and I would have been in so much trouble with Kate. I was about to write on his wall, happy birthday. Can't wait to celebrate with you tonight. Can I just say it just about Facebook messages for birthdays?
What's your thoughts, because I know a few years ago you got in a bit of trouble with our mom and also with Kate and I because you wrote that Brandon was your favorite person ever. Look, I'm about Instagram. I'm not about Facebook anymore on birthdays. I mean for our thirtieth birthday, which sadly was almost two years ago, I was very distraught because Facebook was down for the basically the entire day, so I received no bad messages, like a real los on there. Yeah, but yeah, I
think it's about Instagram now. I think it's about you know, putting up nice photos if your boyfriend like funny photos and videos. And I think that people shouldn't be so sensitive. And you know, when you say someone's your best friend, who your favorite person, it's not just specifically them. You can have a range of different favorite people.
One of my favorite.
People, yes, was the next time Semantics, isn't it since.
Forty seven?
Hell? This shit. As the influencer economy grows, so two does a desire to make it big online With an oversaturated market making it harder to get noticed, many women are turning to thirst traps, while revealing photos are a guaranteed way to grow a male following, men aren't the key demographic for brands. As women steadily become the most powerful consumers in the world, big brands want to work with influencers who have called evated a strong female following amy.
How important is it for brands to make sure they're working with an influencer who has the right demographic? Well, so it's so important and this was highlighted last year in May when an eighteen year old influencer with close to three million followers failed to sell thirty six T.
Shirts from her clothing line.
So this influencer's name is Ari and she made it big on Musically, which is now known, of course as TikTok. So she announced on her Instagram last year that she'd be shutting down her clothing brand. So she had a collaboration with the company, and they had told her that she needed to sell at least thirty six T shirts before they'd expand the brand, but she actually had to return T shirts to some of her followers.
Who had bought them.
I'm really surprised that the minimum is thirty six T shirts when you have three million followers on Instagram. It does make you think because you know, whenever an influencer launches something, it always sells out. And I feel like that's a real marketing spin because some of these influencers, as we know now, could be selling thirty six T
shirts and that's deem does a huge success. I mean, it's a very clever marketing ploy because it makes it look like something is outrageously successful and popular, when in fact you're only selling thirty six products.
Well this influencer.
She complained in the post that a number of her influential friends hadn't actually shared any content about the release of her T shirts, but she also conceded it was a major wake up call to work a bit harder. I think that's a bit rough to blame your friends because they didn't share about it. I mean, come on, You've got three million followers on your own. Even if a small percentage of your following saw that post, you
think that would generate more than thirty six purchases. Well, a lot of the feedback was the T shirts actually didn't match her aesthetic online, and they a lot of people said, well, I can't even imagine her wearing the T shirt, so how we expected to imagine her followers wearing.
The T shirt.
It also spiked a lot of conversation about genuine engagement, So a lot of brands obviously just look at the number of followers you have rather than the engagement. And I think that's so important. I feel like a lot
of people should be looking into that more. Well. I feel like Instagram has really shaken things up because you can no longer see people's like counts, it is really hard for small brands to determine who they actually want to work with and what an influencers engagement is really like. And that's where talent managers are really important, because they produce documents called media kits which outline that influencers following
I have one hundred percent agree with that. And it's also raised another really interesting point regarding the fact a lot of female influencers actually have more male followers than female followers, and it's not the right demographic for a
lot of products that are actually promoting well. I think it's difficult because it is such an oversaturated market at the moment that young people assume that they've got to do something to get noticed, and one good way to get noticed is to basically put up revealing photos and that is a way that you're going to generate a lot of male followers quickly. And I got thinking about this topic last week when I heard influence that Madison
Mooley talk about it on her podcast Now. She was joined by her talent manager and they were answering a question and in by a follower about whether she gets more attention when she puts up bikini photos online and she answered the question quite honestly.
Okay, So I did go on a bit of a journey with my account. So if you guys have followed me for a while, like I definitely used to just post every single photo was like a bikini photo and if you oh, yeah, like no teino shade. But if you want to grow really fast, like that's definitely I guess how you do it. But you're growing from mostly male, Like, let's be real, I think it's predominantly male if you're
posting bikini photos and every photo. And I realized as I got it, I was like, I realized that that's not kind of the branding that I wanted, Like I wanted to have a bigger female audience, and I am passionate, passionate about fashion, So I felt like I wasn't actually being authentic to myself. I was just looking at the numbers and I was growing so quick, and I was like, whoa. But then when it comes down to it, that's not actually what I felt like was really authentic to myself.
So I definitely have changed my vibe. And you grow such a more dedicated audience when you're being authentic to yourself. So you don't have to just post sexy photos to get attention. I just think it does take a lot more time, I guess, to grow an audience by not doing that. Does that make sense?
She says here that she's made a conscious effort not to post revealing bikini photos. I'm not trying to be rude, but most of her photos are still bikini photos and most of the comments she received from old pervy men. The thing that I find interesting is she said it didn't feel authentic to be doing that anymore, yet she clearly does. I think it's obvious that it's more of a business move to look like you've got more of a female following.
Well, I think she's gone to brands, and brands.
Have said to her, can we see your engagement with your female audience? And they've gone, what, You've only got x amount of female followers and they don't want to work with her. And what's interesting is Madison's not the only Australian influencer who does have a really large male following. Talia Scines is another one of those influences. And when you do look at both of the girls instagrams, you can quickly see a trend there's a lot of old
men leaving comments. I would say it's about ninety percent old creepy men, and then there's about five percent genuine female followers who leave comments. And then there's the other five percent which are just literally influencer friends just posting yes, sleigh babe, all those kind of comments. I find this highly disturbing. And I won't name the influencer, but it is an Australian influencer. Now, she generates on average about
fourteen thousand likes per post. When she puts up revealing photos, she receives close to forty one thousand, so that's more than doubling the amount of likes that she gets. Now, on this particular post, she receives six hundred and forty seven comments. Now, I was appalled by some of the comments. These were some of them. Do you have a boyfriend so sexy good booty? Well that's not too bad at the moment. Now that's an incredibly smooth looking bot bot perfection.
Buns always make me hungry. Now, I think this one is probably the worst. Here, I would not last more than five seconds. Now these comments, there are about a sprinkle of comments from this girl's friends and then the majority were from old men from different countries. And I mean, for me, if I'm a brand, I don't really want to be aligning with this.
Well, you can see why a lot.
Of women would feel compelled to actually post these kind of photos because it does boost their Instagram profiles into the discovery pages on Instagram, which results in more followers and.
More engagement on the page.
Yeah.
Well, if you look at the recent algorithm changes, you do get better at engagement. As you said, if photos are saved and forwarded on. So what we're guessing here is that men are saving these photos in their droves and also forwarding them onto their male friends. The issue this does raise is though, in terms of a brand
looking at one of these influencers page. If, for example, there's an Aussie influencer who's posting lots of bikini pictures and they want to be known for their fashion or or their makeup skills or whatever it is, there's going to be a lot of brands who are confused and say, are we working with someone who has an OnlyFans account or are we working with somebody who is genuinely wanting
to promote products through a largely engaged female audience. Yeah, I definitely think there would be a lot of confusion from brands, and I do really feel for the small brands who are don't have much money and are looking for someone genuine to advertise with. I have actually noticed there are a number of ossie influencers who do have large male followings that have brought out their own clothing lines in recent times, and these clothing lines.
Are off their own back.
They haven't been a collaboration with a particular brand. So I'm wondering if there are brands out there who aren't wanting to collaborate with people with such a skewed audience.
Yeah.
Well, I'm assuming that the brand is happy to take the risk if it's merely a post they're doing, but they don't want to put the funds into putting someone like that as the face of their business. It is interesting that you touch on the fact that a lot of influencers have brought out their own brands. You look at Tarlia Scaines and she's actually brought out a unisex brand, which is quite clever because she is utilizing that larger
male audience that she does have. Yeah, that's a really good point, and I think that a lot of the influencers who are bringing out their own brands might be discovering the it's almost a bit of a waste of time because if you look at how much money they do get paid for a single post from a brand,
it's such a large amount of money. And then when you break down the costs that are associated with launching a clothing brand in terms of investing in product marketing, selling it, posting it, they actually don't seem to make as much money back, to be honest. So I have more respect for influencers that do start their own brands, I mean, even if it isn't the best investment for them, because there's more longevity in having your own brand than
merely taking and accepting brand deals from other people. I mean, are they going to be being offered these sort of brand deals in twenty years time. Probably not, But they might use those skills they've learned from having their own business in the next venture they go into.
Oh I agree.
I think that it's a good idea to try and create a brand off being an influencer, But if your audience isn't very much engaged, it's actually a real waste.
Of time and a real waste of money.
Well, if you want a good example of someone who has very cleverly targeted towards their predominant male audience, and they have to look at Alex Cooper from call Her Daddy. The podcast. They do a lot of ads for things like via agir and adult stores, so they have really been very clever with who they are targeting, and it's worthwhile for them to do it because that's their dominant audience.
So it's funny that you say that, because the interesting thing about Caller Daddy is it's a podcast that's featured on the Barstool Network, which is a podcast network, and they've always had male skewed shows all about sports, so they actually brought in call Their Daddy to get more of a female audience because they realized how big the female market is. Yeah, well's no surprise because women are
such powerful consumers. I read an article and it said that if the consumer economy had a gender, it would be female, with seventy to eighty percent of all consumer decisions being made by women, which is really crazy. Just back to your point about Caller Daddy and the fact that they have ads for Viagar and sex toys and all of those kinds of things. Do you think that people like Madison Willye and Tylie Escaines should be advertising
products like that. Well, I think that they're within their own rights to evolve and change, and if they want to cultivate a predominantly female audience, they are able to do that. However, I think that if you are going to be accepting money from brands which are targeted towards women, you do have to be upfront about the fact that you don't have a huge female audience. Yeah, and you've got to be putting out content that females are actually
going to want to consume. Well, it's clearly why a lot of these girls have started their own YouTube channel, because they are trying to put their personality out there. And I think we do expect so much more from the people we follow now. We want influencers to be relatable and real. It's almost like you want to follow someone who you see as being a friend or on someone on your level.
That's exactly right.
And in the Madison podcast that you mentioned before, what really frustrated me was the way that the girls and also the brand manager were talking about deals everything.
Was about selling something.
Selles selles sell, and I've got to say working in PR, while it is important for influencers to make money, you've also got to think about the money that you leave on the table to construct your brand, because it's not always good to take that brand deal. Sometimes it's best to just actually put organic content out there so people actually like you and believe in what you're promoting. That's right.
It's all about being authentic. And I think that's, you know, a word that people throw around as a bit of a wank fest at the moment, but it's true. People want to follow someone and see products that they authentically like. Well.
I heard a really.
Interesting interview the other day with the Inspired Unemployed on Shameless and they were talking about how they leave so many deals on the table, and that's to ensure they have longevity within the industry. They said, if they were to take everything like they could literally do ads for every product. They've got so many people coming to them, but they say no to ninety nine percent of things. Scar Let's get into our influencer wrap and so this
one involves Shanni Grimmond. Yeah, it was a bit of a different one. Shanni Grimman jumped on an Instagram story to speak about the colonic irrigation procedure that she received last week. Now, for those who don't know, it is basically a coal and cleansing, so it is she revolves with you being put into your anus and it flushes out your bow with water. So basically it claims to remove unspecified toxins from the colon and also remove an
accumulation of feces. So it's not the most glamorous things to speak about on your Instagram story. I feel like anyone who's seen the Kardashians will know all about colonic irrigations because Courtney was always getting them done.
And getting my anama done.
Now, the reason we want to speak about this on the podcast is because we touched on last week that Shani has fears that she has breast implant illness. Now these sort of gut issues are a symptom of it. So it is interesting that she's going to the lengths of having a colonic irrigation done before, which is quite smart, before going and having surgery. So she wants to find
out what is behind this illness that she's having. She's also go B twelve shot done so I mean, she's obviously doing all she can to avoid getting the breast implants out. Yeah, it's good that she's investigating the root cause of her illness. And I've got to say we were talking before or about influencers being a bit more real and raw. This is why Shanny has such a huge following because she posts content like this. This is
what women want to see. It sounds weird, but we want to see people having colonic irrigations on Instagram, don't we. I actually had a look in preparation for the first topic to see because I have her mediate kit and I wanted to see her percentage of female following, and she has around seventy seven percent females, so you can good. Yeah,
you can see why she is so popular. Now, going back to the chronic irrigation, a few followers did have a problem with her sharing her experience with it because the next day she spoke about the fact that her stomach was so flat afterwards, and people thought that she was encouraging using this procedure as a weight loss. Well, I can kind of see how people could take it
the wrong way, but it's so hard. I feel like as an influencer because I don't think Shanny necessarily meant to put up a photo to promote weight.
Loss in that respect at all.
I think she was quite honest and open as to why she was getting the colonic irrigation done. Yeah. I think she was just sharing about it because many of her followers also probably have gut problems, so to show whether it's something they perhaps.
Want to do exactly.
Well, what about Sky Wheatley, because she's again in our Influencer rapp and this time she's had a massive ranch on an instant story about a negative experience at Harburtown. Yeah. Well, it seems like she had a bit of a run in with some shop assistance. The first one was in a toy store and the shop assistant apparently yelled at Forest for slobbering over some toys. Now that's pretty offensive.
I can see why she's upset about that. And she also had a run in with someone at Boost Juice who was apparently very grumpy with her because she asked for her boost juice to be blended twice. Now. I don't know who's in the wrong there, perhaps her. This kind of reminds me of our discussion from a few episodes ago about altercations with either rude shop assistants or you being the rude customer. I'm not sure who's in the wrong there. I mean, we're only hearing Sky's version
of events, so who knows. Yeah, that's all right now. She's also got a bit of attention this week because she had a bit of a sponsored post fail.
Did you see this? Yes? I did.
Celebrity Spellcheck shared this and it was hilarious. She obviously got sent over her brief and she's gone and copied and pasted this information into her Insta story, not realizing that some of it wasn't meant to be in the post. Yeah, so it was a photo of her in a yellow bikini and pasted in was this comment. All yours are Brazilian butt coverage, but we also have options to choose cheeky for more butt coverage on all of the bottoms.
Isn't that just like it can't be fucked moment? Like, oh fuck, I've got to put this instance story out. I can't be bothered to read the thing this will do. I could definitely see how it could happen, But when you've got that much money on the line for something as small as a post. I think you've got to get it right. Oh definitely. And that seems to be the end of celeb Spellcheck and Sky Wheetley's friendship. She's now blocked them and she used to be a poster
on there, so it's quite I don't know. It seems like a sad moment that she won't be sharing her thoughts on there anymore. I have a feeling she'd be back, you know. Sometimes the block just out of pure rage and anger. Well, just moving on now to Abby Chatfield and Danny Clayton, and there's rumors that the pair are dating after Abby uploaded a series of photos of the two together. Well, she's actually confirmed on her paids that
the pair are just friends. So that has been a rumor that's been circulating over the weekend because she did post them rather interesting loved up photos, as the Daily Mail would like to call them. One was of her resting her head on Danny's chest. There was another where she made a tongue in cheek reference to her time on The Bachelor Cush there was some sort of Rose reference. So I'm kind of disappointed that they're not together. I
don't know how I feel. I mean, I'd love to see Abby find love, but also I'm a bit confused because he's been on her podcast a number of times and they spoke about how they first met and Abby gushed about how lovely he was and that she had a.
Crush on him in year nine. So I don't know what's going on there.
I did wonder if this was a bit of a quote soft launch, like we discussed on the show a couple of weeks ago, how there are a lot of influencers who have been teasing relationship that they've just gotten into. So who knows, Maybe they just maybe they're having fun pretending that they're in a relationship and it might lead to more. Well, she did speak on Tully's Smythe's podcast referencing his appendage size.
Oh yeah, I mean.
It's safe to say that the two have obviously been casually dating. Maybe they're just dating, but they're not in fact boyfriend and girlfriend, and I think it is up to Abby for her to tell everyone when they are actually an item.
Well, just moving on to a.
Trend I've noticed on Instagram. It's the eyebrow lamination. Have you been seeing this? Every influencer seems to be getting it done. I thought I was going mad because I was like, what the hell's going on with their eyebrows? It looks absolutely wild. So basically, it's this new treatment from Europe and it's just hitting Australia now, So who knows, next week I may have my eyebrows in this ridiculous way. I'm very influenced at times.
I wouldn't be surprised.
Now it's been described as a lash lift for your eyebrows, so every hairstrand is standing to attention, so it's basically just up straight and it gives a result very similar apparent to a full and feathery effect that Mike Reblating gives. Look, I can tell you, regardless of how in fashion this is going to be, I'm not ever getting this done. I think it looks ridiculous now. A hot tip for
the listeners who can't see Amy at the moment. She is heavily praised quite often because she has beautiful eyebrows, very very naturally, so I mean you don't need to do anything to them. I feel like, oh, thank you, Sophie. You've never said such kind things to me on this podcast, but it did make me think you know when they often say that you shouldn't just follow a trend, you should always just stick to what looks good on you.
I feel like this is one of these instances where even if someone looks amazing, because I saw Olivia Rodgers recently had her eyebrows laminated, I think that's the term, and she just looks incredible. She could look incredible at a paper bag, but if I would and did it, I'd look like I've been electrocuted. So it's one that I think you have to be careful getting it done. It is funny when you do look at how eyebrows have changed over time. In the early nineties, it was
all about plucking them incredibly thin. The cosmetic industry is like, wow, we can make money off making people fill them in, and now we can make money off people having to micro.
Blade and laminate them.
People are going to get them permanently laminated and then have to pay to have them.
Put back normally.
Now, what about Tarlia Skaines, Because we spoke about her earlier, she's also.
In our Influencer rap.
Yeah, it was really interesting because she spoke on Instagram about the business side of influencing, which I think we're seeing a lot more influencers talk about personally, I really enjoy hearing about it. I feel like it's actually giving an insight into their real, everyday life. Anyway, So she spoke about how many people she actually has working for her. Has her business Third Fix with her boyfriend Mitch, and
she's also about to launch a new business. So she spoke about the fact that she actually has two different pas working for her. She has a number of people working for her also in the factory. So it was really interesting because you do, as a follower, get this perspective that it's like a one woman show and it's
a very small thing. Can I just say, I find out odd that a lot of influences don't share on YouTube that side of their life because I'm actually judging them more when I watch it and they look like they're doing nothing, because I would actually like to see them doing some of this stuff.
Of course, you want to see.
Some of their mindless mook buns and also their daily vlogs where it looks like they're just going shopping and getting their eyebrows done. But I also want to see that side. It's a bit like when Sarah's day puts content up and she always asks her audience, do you guys want to see more of my business life? And I actually find that really interesting. I feel like people enjoy escaping. It's nice sometimes to just watch something that's kind of mind numbingly.
Yeah, But how is it.
Any different if one of them is talking about their day and they're saying, Oh, I'm just actually talking to my pa or I'm going down to the factory to make sure everything's okay. Well, it's because it's not relatable. These people are supposed to be relatable. It's not relatable them doing nothing at home. It was also not relatable them showing off all they're wealthy. Do you know why? Because I think the reason they do it is because it seems more glamorous that they're getting paid a lot
of money to do not very much. Now let's finish off Jade twin Che's laatest haircut.
Now, this is.
Hard hitting stuff here, Sophie. It's incredibly hard hitting. But I feel like many women will like this story or be able to relate to the shock of this story. Now, she has incredible hair. It goes kind of down to her waist. It's beautiful hair. You often don't see hair like this. It's usually hair extensions. But it's her natural hair, and she has cut it to i'd say about her shoulders the way you were gesturing, it's above boob levels. Yeah, it's just a boob yeah, And I mean it looks great.
I've thought looked very stylish. But I was just in shock that you would cut beautiful hair like that, Sophie. I don't even know if you mentioned this key point. But she cut it herself. Oh I didn't know that fat.
Yeah, she cut her hair herself.
She went on her Insta story and she started trimming her hair and all of a sudden she cut it above boob. It still looked phenomenal. I was like, Wow, that haircut looked really good, and you wouldn't know that she cut it herself. She actually had wrotten her Insta story. Hairdressers look away because she just grabbed a bunch of it and cut. Personally, As someone who struggles with their hair, I am very envious. I'm sure next month it'll have grown back.
Oh, definitely.
It's a bit like when Sammy Robinson cut her hair. In the next week she had a full maine again. Anyway, I think that's all we've got time for today. We hope you enjoyed the podcast and you didn't miss Kate too much.
We are very excited.
On Thursday, we will be launching our fifth a very outspoken Christmas episode, and we are joined by the incredible Courtney Maine and she is a Queen of Christmas. Yeah.
I love Courtney.
I'm so excited for you guys to hear our chat with her. Oh so, if you guys do have a second, we'd love if you could go and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. So many of you dm us and say that you'd love our show, and so can we be a bit sneaking and ask you to go leave us a review as well. And if you would like to join in on the conversation, please join our podcast community. It is outspoken the podcast community on Facebook