This is Outspoken. The podcast is not afraid to say exactly what you're thinking. Our names are Amy Kate and Sophie Torba. We're identical triplets, but we often don't have identical opinions, so sometimes things can get heated. Outspoken covers all things reality TV, influencers, entertainment and issues facing women.
That is so fetch Thank you.
Welcome back to another episode of Outspoken. It's a very happy Monday here as it's a public holiday in South Australia. I'm sorry for those states that are missing out. We're obviously pre recording this episode because when you're listening to this, Sophie will be on holiday in Marion Bay with their in laws.
That's right.
We're spending a week there, which I mean I'm feeling a bit a bit funny about because i haven't had a week off in so long.
Yeah.
I will be bringing my laptop with me, Amy mind you, Yeah, I know, because I'm going to be holding down the fort Hula Media by myself.
Does that mean gone? Does that mean it's just going to be your me doing the podcast.
I'm going to bring a microphone with me, so I mean it gives me something to do because apparently there is a sweet fa to do with Marion Bay. I was going to say, because I mean, I've lived in South Australia my whole life except the year in Melbourne, and I've never even heard of Marion Bay or anything to do with.
What you do there. It's nearly your peninsula.
Apparently there's a big beautiful national park there. Apparently Brandon is going to teach me how to use my camera that you got me for Christmas. So we're also going to have a Christmas in.
June night so that should be fun. Wow. Okay, well what are you going to do without me? Amy?
And Oh I'm just going to get shit. I'm just going to get a lot of work done. I'm actually kind of looking forward to it a little bit because oh thanks, Well, no, like I'll miss you. Maybe we can have some quality time to maybe just think you guys need it. Yeah, well, Amy, you have a colleague that's gone viral on tiktop. Yeah so a former colleague.
So it's not Sophie. No, no, it's quite hilarious. One of my friends messaged me a TikTok video and it's over Channel seven reporter doing a report down in the snow, so he was doing a bit of a weather report.
And it's so humorous.
Because I met him when I was on my cadet ship and he didn't get the cadet ship. He actually got beaten out, but he did producing work at seven And I was really surprised by this because he is a nice looking guy. I do remember that there will quite chatter about him because you know, he was pretty good looking. Yeah, so he does post some modeling type photos on his Instagram.
And the interesting thing is he is such a hard worker.
He's been slogging his guts out working at Sunrise, doing all this stuff and trying to get his foot in the door for a full time reporting job. And what's happened is a young girl has been watching the news randomly and she's discovered him reporting on the weather and she has gone to her TikTok and posted a video of him zooming up with this dreamy music and said everyone needs to start watching the news.
This clip has been viewed nearly half a million times.
I can just imagine this happening with us back in the day, because Dad used to watch the news like literally NonStop. It would be ten news than seven today tonight. I could imagine seeing some hot person on there and you're enjoying the eye canny back in the day.
Maybe I shouldn't say.
It's oh, Matt dor Matt Doran. He was a reason to watch the news as well. If TikTok was around then I feel like he would have featured heavily on there. I do remember we were so disappointed because we all started working at Channel ten rolling the auto Q and doing a bit of the weather script and I think he was either there for like five minutes whilst we were there and then left to Melbourne. I remember we were all devastated. Well, this guy, he has been featured
on the Daily Mail. His Instagram following last time I looked, it's gone up by about seven thousand, and I've heard that he might be now getting a full time job because of this.
Is that not the power of TikTok?
Though? This guy's been slogging his guts out for like six years in the background and now he's featured once on TikTok and that's it.
Good on him? I know.
I'm actually really happy for looking at it from the other perspective. Can you imagine if some guy started like sort of perving on some weather presenter and it just went off and then they got it.
Oh, why do you think some weather presenters. I was just thinking about Beg Judd.
No, not Beg Judd, but like there is somebody she she she got exposure from wearing her red dress. So I suppose it's kind of a similar situation where she's been spotted by looking gorgeous. So the television industry is usually run by old men who usually pick out young women that they have the hotspot or that are attractive. To be honest, I'm calling it. I think I should become a news director because I spotted this guy's potential five years ago.
I said he would make a.
Great reporter on the news. I was shocked he didn't get the Sydney gig, and here he is now starring all across the Daily Mail.
Regina George is flawless.
She has too Fendi press and it's not as.
I hear her hare's insured for ten thousand dollars.
A new breed of influencer is dominating the social media world. Finance influencers, known as influencers, are becoming a hot commodity for fine financial brands wanting exposure. However, concerns have been raised over the unlicensed advice being provided by unqualified influencers. This week, a row between license and unlicensed Australian finance influences reached fever pitch when two upcoming unlicensed influencers accuse financial advisor Victoria Divine of a lack of disclosure that
She's on the Money. Founder was criticized on Instagram and then in The Australian Financial Review for a partnership with investing app six Park despite not breaking any rules Sophie. For those who don't know who is Victoria Divine well, Victoria is a licensed financial advisor and also director of Melbourne finance firm Zella.
She is also the.
Very popular host of Australia's number one money podcast, She's on the Money. So the podcast is really aimed at helping millennial women find financial freedom and she is very passionate about helping women take control of their own finances and makes smart money.
Decisions for the future.
She's on the Money has hit one point one million monthly life listeners and she has a large Facebook community of over one hundred and seventy thousand members. Victoria was also named in Forbes thirty Under thirty list of young entrepreneurs, so her career has absolutely taken off. She is an incredibly hard worker and someone I have to say that I do really admire in the industry. Yeah, and just
to be transparent, we do know Victoria. We've never actually had the pleasure of meeting her in person, but just being in the podcast space, we have come across each other online and she has been on our podcast before, so we just wanted to disclose we do know her. Yeah,
exactly right. So I suppose this sparked a little bit of interest when Victoria's name came up, because I was really excited when I saw on the twenty fourth of May that she had announced she was partnering with six Parts to launch as she's on the Money investing platform. So this has been in the works for quite some time. So the collaboration is aimed at providing an affordable solution
for people looking to invest beyond a microinvesting platform. So from the get go, Victoria has been very transparent to say that she's on the money Investing platform is a white label version of six Parks app, So for those who don't know what the term white labeling is it is essentially when a company rebrands another product or service produced by one company to make it appear as if they have made it. So, Victoria actually released a podcast
explaining all the ins and outs of this app. It was explained on her Instagram post that this is how the app was working and she was collaborating with six Park, And I think what is very clear about the app is although it is a white label platform, she has clearly made the platform her own. So basically, this app has been created to ensure that women are still empowered to make financial decisions. So the language is very similar to the language used in the She's on the Money community.
The branding is also directed at women and targeted at women. And also Victoria is part of the process, so she is actually very hands on with the people who sign up to this platform. Yeah, and I think that's what's so appealing about this app to the She's on the Money community is the fact that Victoria is overseeing her client's portfolio.
So that really is the difference.
So if you do go through six Park, you have their team overseeing the portfolio. However, if you go on She's on the Money, she is the one looking.
Over the portfolio.
So it is a way of getting access to Victoria Divine without actually having to become her client and pay her this exorbitant amount for that have her financial.
Advice exactly right.
And I suppose the way that she manages to do this is that that six Park is actually an investment platform referred to as a robo advisor. So basically what this means is it's a type of financial advisor that provides financial advice or investment management online with moderate to minimal human intervention. So basically, they provide digital financial advice based on mathematical rules or algorithms.
So how Victoria.
Explained it on her podcast was that you put in some information about your financial situation and they sort of come up with a risk portfolio for you based on a lot of algorithms.
However, once it's.
All set up in the system, the financial advisors like Victoria do look over the portfolio to make sure it's running properly.
Well.
A lot of people have actually been comparing Victoria's app to Raise, and it is a completely different type of app. So Raise is a micro investing app, and this app that Victoria has created with six Park is the next step up. So and that's what a lot of people don't seem to understand, because you actually have to have five thousand dollars you want to invest, so it's not like with rays where you just chuck a couple of dollars from your purchase, Like this is the next step up.
So on the day.
Victoria launched She's on the Money app and her collaboration with six Park, the Australian Financial Review actually did a really great article on it.
Now this has.
Spurred on micro influencer Maddie Walton to post on Instagram a little bit of a review into Australian investing platforms. Well, Maddi goes by the Instagram handle Money with Maddie and she is a twenty three year old retail worker from the Gold Coast. Now she has no qualifications in in finance, she is not licensed at all, but she gives her
advice on this platform. So Maddie shared a carousel of infographics where she outlined the features of the main Australian investment platforms and of course she reviewed that she is on the Money new six part investment platform. So on the graphic Maddie made several claims which Victoria has refuted. So Maddi claimed that the app is not Chess sponsored, meaning that the ASX can't keep a list of who owns what shares. She also falsely accused Victoria of receiving referrals from people who.
Sign up to the app.
The post further claim that uses are locked into further advice and become a pain client of Victoria's financial advisory Zella. Maddie also made a further claim that six part don't have a competitive rate for the robot advice space. Now Victoria has responded to Mattie's post. She wrote, I do not get referrals from anyone that signs up. That is factually incorrect. The fee is the same if you go through She's on the Money directly or with six Park.
Further to this, I have.
Never and will never accept referral payments for any of our podcast sponsors or show partners. We strictly only charge an advertising fee, so we are never seen to be financially motivated to get people to sign up with particular platforms. We have refused many referral opportunities as they are not in line with the best interests of our community. Victoria also further hit back at Maddie's claim saying her financial
advisory business seller is not involved in six Park. Victoria also went on to say that the platform is in fact Chess sponsored, so it is clear to me that a lot of these claims made by Maddie are very unsubstantiated. Well, and also if Mattie's claims come off the back of Victoria's Australian Financial Review article, so the Australian Financial Review accidentally printed that Victoria was receiving a referral fee, which they have now gone and corrected that she is not receiving one.
And what's really interesting is it is actually not.
Illegal for financial advisors at the moment to receive a referral fee. However, it's one of those things that's frowned upon. There's a bit of a gray area. But Victoria has said time and time again that she doesn't believe in accepting referral fees at all. I suppose the confusion is around the fact that referral payments are expected to be a band form of renumeration for licensed financial advisors under the government's contentious.
Code of Ethics.
However, this still has not been passed, so even if Victoria was taking referral payments, it's actually not illegal.
Well, the thing that.
I find really interesting is a lot of these influencers who have been having a go at Victoria and her app actually accept referral fees. So one of those is Tash Invests, and she's been very vocal on her Instagram and also her TikTok about Victoria and the six Park app. And she has actually one finfluencer that is quite open about the fact that she does receive referral fees. So if you look on her link tree, there are at
least four companies that she has referral fees for. What's interesting is Tash Invests hit out Victoria and said that she's on the money also has referral fees, and this is actually true, but the difference is that when she's on the money has a referral fee. For example, for Upbank, they actually give their listeners ten dollars, whereas Tash Invests gives them five dollars. So I suppose what they do is that she's on the money, they could be getting
that five dollars. However, they give it back to their listener because they don't ethically believe in taking.
That refera exactly right now.
What is crazy that this shit storm has happened on social media and gone back and forth and the Australian Financial Review has decided to jump in and create an article pitching these influences against each other and slamming Victoria. It's particularly interesting that the Australian Financial Review took this approach because the whole argument was based on misinformation that
they printed, which Victoria asked them to correct. Yeah. Well, from a journalistic perspective, it is a really odd move from the Australian Financial Review because the Australian Financial Review, if you compare them to other publications like, for example,
the Daily Mail. We know the Daily Mail will run with influencer gossip, but the Australian Financial Review is held very highly between finance experts and also in the journalism world, and it seems really odd that they have written an article based off almost idle gossip from some finance influences.
And if you read the article, it's very quote heavy at the start and it puts across the influencer's view and then down the bottom it's where Victoria actually responds and everybody knows most people don't get to the end of an article, so it would be framed very much
on the side of these influencers. I found it also really odd the fact that they Australian Financial Review wrote this glowing article about how great this, how great Victoria's partnership was with six part because if they're meant to be so educated in the financial world, and that if there was a problem with Victoria backing this app then why did they do the review? So it doesn't make any sense at all. If anything, it makes them look bad.
The thing that I just can't wrap my head around is the fact that there is such a better story here. Instead of going after someone who hasn't even done anything wrong, why don't they.
Go after the fact.
That there are unlicensed and unqualified people providing financial advice to people that has the ability to cripple them financially. Well. Earlier today, we spoke with Glenn James from my Millennial Money because we really wanted to pick the brains of an expert and someone who is in that social media space, and we put a number of questions to him about financial advisors and the laws surrounding what they can actually talk about and also this incident at hand. Let's go
to our interview with Glenn. Firstly, Glenn, what is considered financial advice?
Well, I'm glad you asked, because I think it's important to just understand the framework of what financial advice is and what it isn't. And I'm actually reading the Corporation's Act, section seven sixty six B, and it says financial product advice means a recommendation or a statement of opinion or
a report of either of those things. That and this is the absolute kicker, is intended to influence a person or persons in making a decision in relation to a particular financial product or class, or financial products, or an interest in a particular financial product or class. Then it says point B it could reasonably be regarded as intended
to have such an influence. So if we back it up, if I if I open an Instagram account today and it says Glenn will get invested with Glenn, because I just started a TikTok account for fun, and it's called get get invested with Glenn. The minute I say, hey, guys, if you want to set up a banking structure, should use four bank accounts and if you want to find a super fund, you should look at these three fees.
I've walked over the line of a class because I've talked about superannuation of a class and I've also talked about banking. So it's a very very easy line to cross. And then the question is I've crossed the line. So I'm automatically in advice territory because I've mentioned the class of product. The question is do I need to be
licensed for that advice? So the Corporations Act is not digging around excuse my French or whatever when they're talking about financial advice and financial product advice.
So does that make it really hard in this world we live in where we've got a lot of financial podcasts, we've got influencers who are spooking financial advice. Is it really hard when we get into the category of sponsorship, because obviously you deal with that a lot. Is it hard to know what you're allowed to promote and what you can't promote and what you can't say.
Yeah, so I think it is hard if you are a licensed financial advisor, and we can get to that, But just back to this whole You know, I'm a dude, I work I make coffee during the day and I've got a TikTok or an Instagram account in the night, and I talk about money and it's you know, get invested with Glenn and all that stuff. The question isn't did Glenn give advice? That's not the question because all day long, I've opened my trap and I've said super,
I've opened my trap and said bank accounts. I've opened my trap and said investing in shares. So I'm in the territory of that financial product advice. The question now becomes, well, do I need to be licensed? Because there's no different than you know, we might go and get coffee tomorrow and I say, oh, Sophie, name me, so go and set up a spaceship or raise account. It'll be good. Like that's financial advice all day long, by the definition
of the Corpse Act. And I don't want to try and confuse things here, but the question is do you need to be licensed? Now, both of you when you just give financial advice like that, you don't need to have a general advice license because the corpse that goes on to say that because your main business isn't basically financial advice and dealing with financial products and all that stuff. So all day long at a barbecue, you can give financial advice because it's not your thing and it's just
your opinion, you don't need to be licensed. And if someone goes and buys a block of gold or a snuggie or something off TV because you said so and it sucks, well, that's just on them. It goes back
to what's the core reason. Now, if I had a get invested with Glenn TikTok, which I do, and I make money from that, and I'm over the line of talking about financial products and a class of products and whatnot all day long, I think it's clear that in that instance of being that financial influence or of influencer all day long, I think it's pretty clear that you
might need to be licensed. Now, full disclosure, my Millennial Money, my podcast and all the stuff we do online, all my blogs, I actually pay for a general advice license.
So, Glenn, because you are a retired financial advisor, can you talk us through what guidelines you have to adbide by when you're giving financial advice and also when you take sponsors on board for your podcast.
Yeah, So when I started my podcast, I was actually a financial advisor. I had my bricks and mortar financial planning business, and you know, ordinarily, if I'm just doing my thing, and you know, I'm a financial advisor and someone comes into my office and they want financial advice, well, we sit down and I get their goals, I get
their needs. I really understand their personal circumstances. Then I put together a recommendation which is in the form of a statement of advice, which is formal financial advice, and that actually says, high, clients, you've told me you wanted these goals met, Well, I believe these products will help you achieve those goals, whether it's cash flow and banking structures, whether it's getting out of debt, whether it's superannuation or insurance,
and I give them formal financial advice. It's a document. It's pretty big document because you know, I have to hang my hat on that advice, and it's compliant the law. So it's really good because the clients have paid to get advice based on their own personal situation. Now there are strict rules involved if you are a licensed financial advisor.
So for example, in the eighties and nineties, if you're a financial advisor, you could you might you know, put a whole he bit of investments over in that company over there, and they would say, oh, Glenn, you've done really well. Let's take you over to Hawaii on a junket and we'll pay for it all. So there would be more incentive for the advisor to maybe use that product because they're getting the trip to Hawaii. So fast forward.
Now all that's been cleaned up out of the industry, like you actually can't do it, and I'd just like to have a jab there that I know. There are still people in the medical profession who get flown around the world on jackets from drug companies, but we won't go there right now. So it has cleaned up a lot, and there is now a code of ethics that advisor
has to go by. So, for example, if you are a licensed financial advisor and you had a podcast, well you really couldn't take money to sign people up to an investment because it's just against the law.
So how does that do for them?
Because we're seeing so many finance influencers dubbed fin influencers, how are the rules different for them?
Well, they're not licensed, so it's the wild West. And particularly with the podcasting and Instagram world. So for example, on our podcast, I could pretty much say, hey everyone, it's Glennye, welcome to my millennial money. I want everyone to go and buy you this over here. Even if you know, everyone go buy Nike shoes. It's all good. Just they're the best shoes ever. I could be getting a million dollars out the back door from Nike, and it's legal because it's the wild West where it's different
than radio. You can't do that on radio. So I think what we're finding is that, you know, twenty first century tech and online stuff, you know, the old laws haven't caught up with it yet. And I'm really predicting that in the future there will be laws in place for podcasters, there will be laws in place for influencers,
because it is actually the wild West. And I'm very sure when I do a podcast, if there is a paid thing, we will disclose it in the show notes and it will be apparent that isn't it isn't ad like I'm still going to slip in oh and I wear night shoes like. So, I think there has to be a level of integrity for the individual influencer when they are dealing with this stuff because it is the wild West and there's actually no rules.
So does that mean say I started another podcast and I started talking about investments and crypto with all types of topics related to finance, Does that mean I could just go on and spook super annuation companies and anything.
Because I absolutely, yeah.
Totally, you can do that tomorrow. You're a qualified for influencer. And to me, it goes back to the wording in the Corporations Act that says that it's a statement of
opinion that could influence someone. So by definition, if you went out and created that podcast and you were like, all right, everyone use this super company over here, or if you created an Instagram account and say I use this super account because it's the cheapest, you're giving an opinion about a financial product the corporation and Zach says that that's financial product advice. So I think it's a
very gray area. And that's why for me personally, I pay close to forty thousand dollars a year to have a license, a general advice license. Are we giving general advice all day long? The Corpse Act says we're giving advice. The question is do you need to be licensed? It's gray? It hasn't been tested in court, and I believe I would rather not work in the gray and just be above reproach in that area.
I just think it's so confusing though, for the listener or consumer of this information, because it just seems so odd to me that someone who has qualifications in finance they are bound by all of these rules that they have to abide by. Yet someone who then calls themselves a finfluencer and has no qualifications, no background experience in it, they can just do whatever they like. I think that their needs to be some sort of boundaries in place
for them as well. Do you think it is a little bit unfair that they are able to play by their own rules.
Yes, and I would actually, I guess for the benefit of the consumer I think, and the regulator. You know, if you have any influencer listeners or whatever that listen to your podcast, I would actually be very very cautious because ask have said they're like looking into this unlicensed financial advice stuff. And by definition, if you're calling yourself a finfluencer, you are influencing people about money and finance
and that often includes products. And I honestly think my you know, and I've thought about this for a whole ten minutes, but I'm kind of thinking maybe there should be some type of regulation that if you've got influence over say five thousand people or ten whatever the threshold is, or you generate an income of over this amount and you are talking about money, you need to be licensed.
What is so crazy is that finance brands and banks they're going to opt to go with someone who doesn't who isn't restricted by guidelines. So this is just pumping up these unqualified influencers more, filling their pockets with more money. And that it's even more harmful because it's really confusing for consumers to know who is qualified and who isn't qualified and who they should be taking advice for.
Do you think it is quite.
Concerning that these consumers are unknowingly receiving unlicensed information?
Oh? Absolutely? And I mean I follow a few influencers on Instagram because you know, I'm out there, I've got a money podcast. I want to keep my finger on the pulse what all the cool people are doing and all that stuff. And I say that jokingly because I'm old, right, I'm not twenty three with a banging Instagram account or TikTok follows or anything like that. But I think it's
I like to keep my finger the poles. I don't know where I was going with this, but I think it's actually the same as like if we forget the word of influencers and we actually go and talk about
health and wellness and what about ice. You know, Glenn James starts an investment, Sorry, Glenn James starts an instagram like health with Glenn, you know, follow me for all your health tips, And I could get really big and I could be actually saying the biggest load of crap and people are actually taking i don't know, lemon scented
water drinks or something weird to cure cancer. Because I said, it works like it's actually no different to the health stuff and it's equally concerning the health side of it.
In my opinion, that's such a good point because I feel like people are sort of waking up to those health and wellness influences and a lot of people are now calling out their practices. But I think that a lot of consumers we just don't know. We don't know the rules regarding influencers. So it's really great to actually have you on clearing up a lot of this because I feel like a lot of our listeners will actually
take something away from this. But it's also confusing because recently the government has come out and said that taking advice from an unqualified financial influencer is like getting advice from your mate down at the pub. I just think it's kind of confusing because I thought they'd be wanting to set strict guidelines in place. What do you make of the government's recent comments about it?
Yeah, so I think, like anything, Jane Hume, who is the senator who looks after all the financial services stuff, I honestly think maybe she just got caught up in a throwaway line. You know. I just don't know, And all I know is one she's been on my podcast before. I'm going to get her to try and come back on my podcast and talk about this. I have feeling
sull decline, but I'm still going to ask. But I just just got to look at the regulator, and we know that ACIK are looking at this stuff, and I for one am not dicking around with ACIK like as simple as that, because this stuff hasn't been tested in court and I don't want to be the first one that gets wheeled into court because a lot of the times the regulator if it's gray, right, There's been cases like in the late nineties, I forget the case off the top of my head, but there was a case
that ACIK wanted to try. They didn't know the outcome of and they paid the person they were suing legal fees. So it was pretty much like, all right, here's a couple of million dollars, go get the best legal device you can get. We're going to sue you to see if this stands up in court. And because all this stuff's gray, I don't want to be the first one that's you know, heading into the court to be tested.
Because if you're found guilty of being out there providing unlicensed financial advice, there can be prison time and over one hundred thousand dollars worth of fines. And this is why we just can't mess around with this stuff. And I'm not against people making a living online totally. I want everyone to have a banging Instagram, but I just am worried that it's just the wild West out there.
Yeah, it is going to take one influencer to kind of be made an example of.
I think in this situation.
And what I find really interesting is I wonder if the brand, the finance brand that they're promoting will also be held.
Won't be a great response, It.
Won't be great pr for anybody involved.
No, And this is why, you know, you just have to be aware of the playing field. And I just caution everybody. You go back to that young lady who was doing the health stuff, I think it was Bell or something and she was then yeah, like, it's actually no different than that, and it can be life or
death consequences in terms of financial death. And sure, given a lot of these people you're influencing, like they're not high income earners, Like if you had five hundred thousand dollars to invest, I'm pretty much confident I'm not going to do what someone says on Instagram. But you just don't know because these people do have influence. And yeah, I just can't operate in that area. And that's why I've got a license for general advice. You guys like
talk about a lot of like gossipy stuff. Are we going to get to the gossip soon? Yeah?
Yeah, Like Glen wants Glen wants the tea he wants, Yeah, that's right.
And you know, I listened to your vodcast on Guys. I wait here for.
Right, it is my next question.
Actually, oh so let's just kind of step back a bit just to really give another practical example. That Day show Sunrise. You know they've got a money segment. You know, I was on Today Extra the other day, first time on Today Extra. So that Today Show might have a money segment, and they might talk about super So we know that they've talked about a class of products. So they're already in that financial product advice territory because they've
talked about the class of product. Now the reason they don't need a general advice license is because money isn't their core business. Their core businesses or Today's show, we've got Karl here, you know, talking with people getting fired and then getting rehired because it actually makes us money. Like, oh, I also held a logo the other day. I've picked it up in the studio. It was heavy anyway, you.
Just pretended for a moment that that was yours exactly.
So I think it's so it's just clear to know because the Today Show and Sunrise don't have a business in the background influencing people as they call business with money and making recommendations. That's why they don't need the general advice license.
So that makes where we go back.
We go back to get invested with Glenn's TikTok. Well, my whole thing for my account is money. Yeah, people send me DM saying what should I invest in? And I don't know if it's going to cut it by saying, hey, I'm not an advisor, get your own advice, but have a look at this investment here.
Hmm.
That's such a good point.
But also I'm not a lawyer. This stuff hasn't been tested in court, and it's still the wild West. We all know with new stuff, the law catches up, society catches up.
Now, Glenn, you touched on a bit of controversy before, so we're going to get into it. So last week, micro influencer Maddie Waltons, who works in retail but runs her account money with Maddie Now, she called financial advisor Victoria Divine out for her collaboration with six Park, saying that Victoria didn't completely disclose her financial benefits. Now, it appears the Financial Review incorrectly referred to the partnership as a form of referral, which has subsequently been clarified as
a revenue share agreement. Firstly, I'd love to know what your reaction is to the story, and also maybe can you go into the rules around referrals.
Well, my reaction was like, everyone, Oh, grab some popcorn, let's have a read here. But no, firstly, I want to say, full disclosure, I'm friends with Victoria. Full disclosure. I've met Maddie. I think Tash was involved with that. I've met all of them. I don't have a dog in this fight, but I will say a couple of things. Sure Victoria, I think, and she since clarified. I think she did a podcast and clarified it. I think she did another one or amended that clarification. And sure, she
obviously wasn't taking a referral fee. So if she was taking a referral fee, there would be more incentive for her to sign up as many individual people as possible. But we know that, you know, I make money, you make money. Everyone makes money. We get that she may have got lost in the semantics of the words, but that's all being clarified and put to bed. So I think one other confusing thing that was out there that I saw that I'm not against six Park. I'm not
against Victoria, I'm not against anyone. Actually don't actually wish ill upon anyone. But there was misunderstanding about what six Park was and the benefits because it's actually formal advice.
You get that statement of advice. And I don't want to bore everyone to tears, but if you want to actually understand a bit under the hood in a technical way about six Park and how all that works with robo advice, there's an episode over on My Millennial Money and we go deep on the technicality side of that. So all to say that the clab with six Park that was legit. Six parks legit. I know six Park when they reached out, I think someone asked, six Park
do you have advisors working there? And I think their chatbot or email things said no, we do not have advisors here. Where it's like, well, no, your computer produces formal financial advice. So there was actually a few things that was in this teacup swirling around. There was some semantics with wording. There was not understanding that six Park actually provided formal financial advice. And the whole thing is like, and this is the struggle we all have as podcasters right.
We have listeners from the whole spectrum, right, and we have to do this show and try and please everyone. And someone could say, well, why are you doing six Park? You need at least five thousand dollars before you get invested. Well, believe it or not. If you don't have five thousand dollars, that's okay, it's not for you. There can be other people that have thirty or forty thousand dollars laying around they don't know what to do with it. So I've
had to like really try and understand myself. If I see stuff online and I get outraged, like how can they do that? Well, okay, well it's obviously not for me, and that's okay. So I think there's just it was a big teacup with a lot of things moving. And good on the girls for, you know, asking for some clarity. Totally get that, And good on Victoria for also being open with a bloody AFR. Because if there's someone I don't want to dick with, it's the ASSIC and the AFR.
They're the two acronyms, whereas like and they're probably the ato in there. There's three acronyms that I don't want to mess around with.
Right, it seems like there is this sort of war against financial advisors and the finfluencers. Do you think there is some kind of motivation for some finance influencers to try and push these type of stories to tear the financial advisors down, because obviously they're all competing for the same sponsorship revenue. What do you think some of the motivation for these type of stories are.
I think there's the biggest fight out there online is for attention, and if you can make some noise right or wrong, you'll get attention. So yeah, I just think it's it's wild and yeah, it's good times. But I honestly think there will be change coming from the regulators.
I was going to ask you that, Glenn, what do you think needs to change about the rules?
Well, I think, going back to what I said before, like if I'm running my millennial money and I'm generating an income and I've got over X amount of followers or over X amount of income, I think you should just have to have a general advice license, as simple as that. So I honestly think in terms of the money scene, the regulators probably need to step out and say, yeah, if you influence over X amount of people, or you generate over X amount per year on that money account.
That is a core business. You are influencing people about money and all that stuff, because I've watched influences online say stuff about money and it's been categorically incorrect.
Yeah, definitely, Well, thank you so much, Glinton. Yea, that was great, Thank you.
I think it is going to be so interesting to see this time next year what new guidelines are in place, because I do think major changes need to be made. The fact that these unqualified finance influencers aren't bound by the same guidelines as financial advisors is just so wrong to me, because they can push the boundaries when promoting
financial products. I think it's also quite disturbing because because they aren't bound by these guidelines, they are more appealing to big brands who want to use more persuasive language and have calls to action during these adverts. The financial
advisors legally and ethically don't give well. Just on the issue of brands, I do wonder if some big brands are going to reassess whether they do want to use unlicensed influencers in the future to promote their products, because they do lack a lot of credibility, and we are going to see in the future. I believe some influencers who are unlicensed held to account. And if you're a big brand, you might be saying far our. I don't know if I want to be made an example and
attached to those kinds of people. Yeah, and also it does make me really think about the influencers involved in this Victoria Divine story. So for me learning the fact that these unlicensed influencers can actually gain this referral money and also you know, do whatever they want basically with sponsors, it does make me think, well, is there a reason why these two women have decided to drag Victoria down? Because I do think that. I mean, they're working with
sponsors that she also works with. So if they are pointing out that this is ethically and also claiming that it is legally not right, and then getting this information in the Australian Financial Review, for people and brands that don't actually understand that, hey, Victoria actually didn't do anything
wrong here, they might not want to actually sponsor her. Well, yeah, they've got a lot to gain, don't they by dragging someone like Victoria Divine down because she is arguably the biggest finance influencer in the country, and if she's not in the picture anymore, that's going to give other people the opportunity. I don't know whether that is their motivation, it might not be at all, but it does seem
a bit iffy that this sort of stuff is going on. Well, I'm really worried that there is a vendetta going on because as someone who is part of the She's on the Money community, these two girls were actually removed a few weeks ago for distributing factually incorrect information and also
breaching community standards of self promotion. So these two girls were actually trying to promote their own pages in the group, and clearly for Victoria, who is a financial advisor, she would be very against unqualified people putting out that sort of information.
Do you know what's crazy?
Because you think about in twenty twenty one, we all seem to be so savvy about wellness influencers and everybody seems to be calling out health and fitness and wellness influencers for spreading misinformation. But it seems like we're only now becoming clued on to the fact that a lot of these finance influencers have no credibility, they have no qualifications. It doesn't seem like we're that concerned by me. It seems like we will still consume the government aren't concerned
about it. I think people are unaware because I did come across tash invest page before and I wasn't aware that she was a disability worker. I just assumed she was a financial advisor because I didn't really look much into it. And that's the thing, though, there's nothing wrong with someone taking interest in being financially literate, but it does get into a gray area when you are telling
other people what to do with their finances. And as Glenn said, this gray area because if they are giving financial advice, they should be under the same laws that a qualified financial advisor is under, because it's, as Glenn said, it's the wild West.
Otherwise, you did.
Touch on this before, aiming I think there is a lot of tall poppy syndrome going around at the moment, particularly with Victoria divine and sadly, I think the fact that she is a young, successful woman has a lot to do with it.
I mean, if you look at Glenn.
Who is also a very successful host of a money podcast, he does not receive the scrutiny that Victoria receipts. You just have to look at Victoria's reviews to see that she is being unfairly targeted for some reason, and it is very clear that I don't know, for some reason, we don't like to see a woman doing really well.
Yeah, it is.
It is so true because I think a lot of the same audience that would listen to Glenn also listen to Victoria. And as as you said, the reviews are really different. I mean, there's one thing if you're reviewing someone and you're actually legitimately giving them something to work on.
Maybe it's the structure of their podcast.
But there are a lot of reviews which do tear her down her personality. Yeah, I do find it interesting that it's two young women that are trying to sort of drag her down. Yeah, it is really awkward because when I was researching this topic, I did have a look at tash invest TikTok page and one of her popular videos was her actually talking about how she received a comment from Victoria define and how she was fanned.
Going over it. So it is crazy.
In just a few months it has blown up into this kind of feud between the pair. I am really interested to see what does happen in the future because they have I've been calls by senior finance lecturers at r MIT for social media to introduce wealth warnings on social media content, and I think this is a great idea because at the moment there are unlicensed influencers who are able to say anything they want without any repercussions. Well that's all we've got time for today. Thank you
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