Welcome to the Catholic Influencers Podcast where we go deeper into Sunday's gospel reading to help you influence the world for Jesus. I'm Danny Sullivan.
And I'm father Rob Galea. and this podcast is presented to you by FRG ministry. Hey, father , rob how are you ? I'm well thanks. How are you? That's a quick start. That was a very quick start. We're really excited to be here. We haven't recorded in a few weeks... many, many weeks, I think since July.
Wow. And what month are we now? So November by the time we broadcast this.
Yeah. That's so true because contrary to popular boy, I'm not allowed to just fly around the world and record podcasts with you. So we do it all a lot in advance.
Yeah, what have you been up to the last few months?
Well, we've rearranged the office here, which is new. It's exciting. We've got a new podcast table. It's bigger. We can have more books, which is nice. I haven't been up to much though. I'm moving house in a couple of weeks, so that's exciting. I am planning, I really love interior design and decorating, so I'm planning my new home. So that's exciting.
Kmart? No, Facebook marketplace. Yeah, I'm a big fan. I'm just, and then I paint them all and I'm very excited by new handles for new furniture. Anyway, so that's about as exciting as my life has been. How have you been?
I've been well and also in our office we have a new intern, Chris, whom I haven't even, I've met a few times, but he's from Germany.
He is from Paderborn, which I am so embarrassed to say this when you said that we were going to get an intern from Paderborn I thought it was like South America, but it turns out it's like our sister diocese in Germany and like on our Sandhurst diocese coat of arms, we actually have the Paderborn cross, so I'm a bit ashamed of my ignorence.
And he's great, as well Christopher works with us and he has been helping you. So you become a boss.
Well, I'm probably the most laid back boss in the world , but actually I really get along with him. If you said that I was going to be such good friends with a random 19 year old German like kid, I'd be like okay cool, cool. But no , we get along really well. I think we're both sarcastic.
So he's taken a gap year and he's now working for us and the youth ministry office. So this is great in our FRG ministry office and we're blessed as well. Now I think we have one, two, three, four, five, six. Is it six stuff? No, like we're working with Amber, Janine , Danii, Chris, myself and Carol, so six. That's amazing.
I'm really amazed that you got all of our names cause you are like in your defense you are very jet lagged right now.
Yes I am. I was in America yesterday so we had an amazing tour. That was my fourth North American tour of the year. And I have another one, nine days from today I'll be back on the plane to Los Angeles and then to Vancouver. And this is going to be intense. Like I think it is 14 events, 14 concerts in like 10 days.
And that doesn't even like, you know, count the ones that you're doing here in these nine days before you get back on the plane. I don't, I don't know how you do it.
Well, I don't know how I do it. But by the grace of God go I. But , today we're going to talk about the scripture this Sunday, scripture and readings and I again, beautiful readings as we continue to read and to study through the book of Luke. And we're in Luke chapter 19 and this , again it's talking about extravagance of worship, giving ourselves so entirely to God, even though sometimes it's so difficult and it costs us everything.
But I'm looking forward to having this read to us, Danielle and then...Ellie. So what else do they call you? Danielle, Ellie...?
Depense who you ask: Danielle is my name, Danii, Donny , Ellie, Smelsie, Elsy, Elsie-May. I answer to a lot?
For me, it's father rob and that's it. Unless, yeah, and Rob if you're my mum or office stuff. Anyway, so let's go Luke 19 one, two 10. Take it away. Danielle, Ellie...
He entered Jericho and was passing through. And behold, there was a man named Zacchaeus. He was a chief tax collector and was rich. And he was seeking to see who Jesus was, but on account of the crowd he could not, because he was small in stature. So he ran on ahead and climbed up into a sycamore tree to see him, for he was about to pass that way. And when Jesus came to the place, he looked up and said to him, “Zacchaeus, hurry and come down, for I must stay at your house today.”
So he hurried and came down and received him joyfully. And when they saw it, they all grumbled, “He has gone in to be the guest of a man who is a sinner.” And Zacchaeus stood and said to the Lord, “Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor. And if I have defrauded anyone of anything, I restore it fourfold.” And Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, since he also is a son of Abraham. For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”.
Cool. Beautiful reading. So what are your first thoughts on this? So as we prepare ourselves to get ready to go for Sunday mass a part of what we do during the masses , to, to dig deep into the word of God, to fall in love with Jesus through his word. God is present in the mass in four places. You know where're the four places...she's looking at me like: Oh no, you're asking me.
All I need is like a little heads up 10 minutes before we press record.
Where is God present? God is present in four ways at any mass God is in the priest of his soul is in the person. The priest represents Christ and during the sacrament .
That's why he is clothed in white , isn't it? With the ELB cause it's to cover himself and to put on correct?
Correct. That's right. So it's no longer I who lives but Christ who lives in me . So in persona Christi , so that God is present in the priests, the second place that God is present in? In the word. In the word of God, and that is why we study this. We discover the presence of God and we grow in the presence of God. The third thing is the Eucharist. The Eucharist, obviously. Yes. And so God is present in the Eucharist, the source and the summit of our faith because the Eucharist is Jesus. Okay?
So then the Eucharist. So we go there and nourished and strengthened by Jesus. And the fourth is the. congregation, congregation, the community. So God is present in the person next to you, even if they're smelly, even if they're, they don't, they're grumpy. Even if they don't look at you, even if they're angry, even if they're noisy, they're still, God is present in the people around us. So the word of God, we want to come to this place where they feel strengthened and nourished.
And this is again, the purpose of this podcast to help people understand this. So let's start there.
I'm just still full of relief that I got all four. I was worried like, is my employment going to be in jeopardy if I don't know these?
Oh no, I think you deserve a random applaus. [applaus]
Thank you. Well moving on. Things that stood out to me or things that on Sunday when I go to mass and I stand and hear this gospel, there are things that I'm going to try to listen out for even more? And one of the biggest things that stood out for me is just the irony that it's the case . You know, he really wanted to see Jesus. So he ran ahead.
He climbed a tree, he did everything he could to see, you know, Jesus and he wanted to see him in person, but at the same time Jesus was looking for him. So it's kind of like he's running ahead , but almost in a sense he's running away from Jesus accidentally cause Jesus is on this like trying to find him cause he needs to eat at his house that night.
So that that desperation for God. And sometimes we don't know. And I think this is one of the most powerful things that if we really want to seek God, it's not about us chasing after him, but God letting God catch us. And because in actual fact God is like, what did they call it? The hound of heaven they call him like that. He's constantly behind us, he's constantly there. All we need to do is just stop and let him catch us.
But Zacchaeus was running, running to try and find God but all this time. God was chasing after him.
And I think one of the interesting words when I was studying for this podcast is that the word day, which the I D I , um, that's the translation of the word must. So when Jesus comes like, you know, Zacchaeus I must eat at your house tonight. That particular word means that it's like part of divine necessity. So it's not just like Jesus deciding that, Oh, I need to be fed tonight and Zacchaeus is up a tree.
He'll be happy to have me, it's like part of his divine role on earth was that he had to eat with Zacchaeus and I don't know , like when you were just saying that, you know, we're also being pursued by God. Like it's part of Jesus's plan to pursue us. Like it's not just because he feels like it, but he has to , he wants to, he loves us so uniquely and so individually that he doesn't just, you know, pick us because we're available.
He chooses us because he wants us as each like individual human and he must come and you know, eat at our house.
And so even before like you read the scripture and you think, Hey , this is how it happened. What a coincidence he saw . No, this was Jesus before going into this town, it was already predestined in a sense that he was going to meet with Zacheaus. It was already written that he was going to, it was a divine appointment at the end of the day.
Exactly. Walking into Jericho, he knew exactly that. But I don't know. Do you want to tell us a little bit more about Jericho ?
Well, yeah, let's put it a bit back into context of where this is happening because it's all written on purpose. You know, there's a lot of things that we read as very Jericho. What do , where is Jericho? What is Jericho? Well, Jericho is a very sort of Calabasas a place in California, which is the rich place. You know, it's in the Hollywood Hills. It's a place where y'all Kim Kardashian live it's a place where Justin Bieber used to live and all these places, it's a place of celebrity.
It's a place of wealth. It's a place of gated communities, you know. And so everywhere you drive around in Calabasas is rich and rich shops and just extreme wealth. And this, Jericho was that place. It was a place that was very important. It was very wealthy. It was on the way to Jerusalem and it was very green, prime S state. And it was con, it was called the city of palms or the city of roses, such a beautiful place all year round. So, and it's attracted a lot of rich people.
So a lot of rich people lived live there. And so you can imagine rich people pay more taxes supposedly. Anyway. I don't know. In our world, I don't know the United States cause apparently they pay less. But these and so Zacchaeus was one of the top dogs. Like he was the person who collected tax from the richest of the rich. So he was very wealthy. He was a very powerful guy.
But yet at the same time he was the most hated man in all of the district because when they saw him, they thaught 'oh now, he had to take our money'. And so he would take money to give to the tax, but he'd take a huge commission as well. So this is a context of, of where he was. And so Zacchaeus is this wealthy person?
Even that Jesus was walking through Jericho and there was all these rich people. So I you kind of assume that some of the crowds would be rich and then Zacchaeus was up a tree and Jesus met with him. Like it says a lot about wealth. I think that it's not something to be avoided or looked down upon. You know, these wealthy people that had everything because it's not so much what you have or how much riches you have or whatever it is, how much status you have, but it's about how you use that.
And you know, Lucas talked about that in the past gospel ratings of the Sundays that we've kind of journeyed through with this podcast. But you know, it's coming up again and even , we'll get to it later when we can kind of get to the second half of the gospel. What Zacchaeus does after this encounter with Jesus and gives away half his wealth? Like it's not that he had the money and that makes him bad, but it's that he defrauded people.
So yeah, I just think that that's an interesting point as well that wealth in itself is not a bad thing, but it's about stewardship and use of that wealth.
Exactly. And Jesus visited this rich town, he didn't avoid this rich town. Jesus spent most of his time with the poor, but he also spent time with the rich. And this is a case in point where he spent time in the company of the rich and he wasn't disgusted, he wasn't disappointed. And so being rich is not necessarily a bad thing, as you just said, but it is how we use our riches and how we hold onto our riches and that.
So let's talk about the four things we know about Zachias that this Sunday when you're listening to the gospel, listen out for these four things. Okay? So the first thing that is is very simple, very straightforward, that Zacchaeus was wealthy, but he was not happy. He was lonely, he was an outcast, he was hated. And the thing is, he wanted to to meet Jesus, and you wanted to reach after this love of God because this wealth left him empty because he was holding onto the wealth too strong.
He was holding onto the wealth too much. The wealth was not a servant, but it became a God for him. And because of that, it left him empathy . It helped him and left him alone. And it's not only wealth, you know, wealth can become our God and we can pursue wealth. And it starts good. You know , if I had more money, I could give more to the poor. If I had more money, I could do more in ministry. If I had more money, I could help this.
But eventually we come to a point where we look back and we start to live for the money. And we started being motivated by the money and the pursuit of wealth. And it's not only that, it's also, it could be anything else. It could be goods, it could be sex, it could be so many things that can become our God. And so again, I'm like, while we were preparing, I loved the words you use, that you hold on to these things, but what...
'...holding onto things too tightly is never good. Like you have to hold onto things loosely.' And I think like I came across this quote again, I don't know who to credit for this. It was on the internet. But you know, we can't hold on to anything more tightly than we hold onto God.
And I think that that's so important to remember, you know, when it comes to money, but when it comes to anything, am I holding onto a job or friendship or whatever it might be more tightly then I'm holding onto my relationship with Jesus.
I think one of the ways we know that we're holding onto things more tightly and where our thought is, you know, what you spend the most of your day thinking about is your God.
Where lies your treasure, their lies, your heart. You know, we're called to just focus on God or even that sometimes we're holding onto things and we don't want to let them go because we can feel God taking them away, but we don't know what he has in store to replace that with. So we ever holding onto things so tightly that we're not allowing God to pry our fingers open. And this is something , this is a dumb story, but let's go with it.
I was reminded of this earlier this year, I was making a lot of unnecessary purchases and I was like, this is...
...no, usually the office when I get back is full of eBay like $2, $5 things. Which I use... for a day or two [laughing].
I was about to defend you but I have, but I was making purchases and I was like, this is done. Like Danielle, do you need this? Like is it important and is it going to be like, are you gonna put this above your relationship with God or is it gonna become this prized possession that I have? So my favorite store is having a sale and I bought a jumper and I, as I bought it, I was like, okay, like I will wear it all winter.
And I think I did wear it all winter, but I put it on the second day I owned it and I had this thought, right. And I'm like, okay, it's not that important. Just a jumper . And then that night my friend's baby vomited all over me and my jumper and I was like this is good reminder that it's just a jumper like, yeah, like that's just a dumb example of where I was like, well, this isn't actually important and I'm happy for it to be ruined by the cutest baby's vomit.
But you know, like when possesions or when relationship , so when anything becomes more important than a relationship with Jesus, that's when my holding on too tightly.
Yes. And I think this is one of the motivations I had. For example, when buying a car, you know, I remember that the first guy I bought , I used to use it a lot for youth ministry and it was a small car, but I chose to get leather seats and not that chose like the model had, I think it was either free leather seats or it was a free upgrade to leather seats.
But then I started to notice that I didn't want people in my car, too many people over to put stuff up, pianos in my car because it ruined my leather seats. And so something that was there to actually serve me and to maybe bring about the sense of beauty, a sense of pleasure became a burden. It became something that stopped me from even serving God and letting others sort of holding onto things lightly.
So these are ways, but that brings me to the second point, which is actually the fourth point. I'll bring the fourth to the second...
Noone would ever know if you haven't explained that.
Because it's a good conclusion, but also this is so good. That the son of man in the story of Zakiah came to seek and to save the lost. It's so important for us to understand this, that God came to seek and to save. Not those who are away from Jesus. Not those who don't know Jesus only. Okay. But also those who knew Jesus ones, but not necessarily no longer know him. It's people who have started by serving God and wanting good things, wanting money, wanting , goods to serve God.
But all of a sudden these, you see, I have become our God. And Jesus came to pull us back. The draws back to the narrow path. And it's not only people like Zachias who are away, but it's also you. And it's also me who constantly need to be brought back to salvation. And that this , one of the things like are you here with Pentecostal Christians, is that, you know like once you're saved, you're saved. But it really doesn't work that way. Hey, we're saved. And then we wander off the narrow path.
We wander away from grace, we wander away , because we're human beings and the things we need to fight and surrender again, allow God to pursue us again and, when we're in the wrong place. So I think this is something so beautiful that we see this. God's pursuit is not only once in the life of Zachias, but maybe he did give all this wealth away. Maybe he did, but then eventually he starts to become rich again and needed his mercy.
Let's go to the third point is that the desperation desperation of Zacchaeus, he was desperate for God. Now all over Catholic, Twitter, all over Christian Twitter, all over social media. You have this new album, Jesus is King by Kanye West. Everyone is talking about Kanye is , conversion and his pursuit of God. But in all of this, it's a desperate pursuit. You know, he is so bold. He's so passionate. He's so amazingly unapologetic about serving Jesus.
And I think this is something whether he stays converted or not, I don't know. I'm not here. I don't know what the future holds. But it's such a beautiful witness to see the desperation of this man who spent his whole life according to his lyrics, serving Satan, like even in his lyrics, he says this, he says, my whole life I have served Satan and now I'm turning my back, and now I'm serving Jesus. And you know what a tweet appeared on my feed as well, which is from the church of Satan.
And I looked at, I clicked on this tweet, you know, the church of Satan , Twitter account and it decides to , um, to tweet about Kanye. And they said, this is what they said. They said , um , you have been a friend of Satan throughout the all your wholes, Korea and Satan has raised you up and he has sustained you in your, in your work. Why you turning your back on him now?
And then you'd say , it's like, wow, this is not only a lyric that he used in his song, but it was true that he spent his life serving the devil. But he came back, he came back to a place of hope and because he was desperate, he was a person who was amazing, but he came back and he ran and like, like Zacchaeus , he ran on ahead. He climbed up the Mulberry tree, which was an easy tree to climb. Um , but the significance of the tree as well, which is a beautiful significance.
Yeah. This is something that I was really struck by , um, that, you know, Jesus sees the case up in the tray and he says, come down and the case does come down, but Jesus is on his way. He's walking towards Jerusalem to replace the case in that traitor to replace every single one of us in that tray on the cross when he's crucified for our sins, for you know , our salvation.
And I just think that's so powerful that he, he told the case to come down, but he knew exactly where that he was going to go and replace him on the tree .
Zeki is , goes up, he calls him down off the tree and then Jesus is on his way back up a tree. And that is the cross. We are desperate for God, but God again pursues us, catches us, and counters us and brings us back into this relationship. And so this brings us to the fourth point. Okay. And , and this is the point again, we need to look out for in this Sunday's gospel when , um, when they discovered Jesus, Jesus asked him to stay at his house. And so there's the story of him up the tree.
Then this, this , um , divine appointment , which Jesus already knew about. He calls him back and he calls him to his house. And so there he found a few things. He found friends, he found a community and but he also made a decision. He made a decision. So testimony alone, encounter alone with God is not enough the case. So it's requires action. And the action that he took was he returned everything four fold, four fold, and plus he gave half of his wealth to the poor.
But we'll talk about that in a second. But you see, testimony alone causes us to bring, make things right to causes us to reach out. When I had my encounter with God, my first reaction was not a thought while I co amazing, I know Jesus, but it was how am I going to share this love with others? And I remember even things like gathering all my CDs , all my music, all the music, like the heavy metal, destroying that. And then I'm just making decisions for Jesus.
And also in my past having spent a life stealing. And, and, and, and doing some crazy stuff. I spent a lot of times saving money to restitute to give back everything I had stolen. I didn't give four fold because I couldn't afford to give for hold , but I, I gave back everything and what I couldn't return I gave to the poor. So there's the importance of action
with testimony with uh , with encounter and that point you just made there about restitution, how you couldn't afford four fold , um , that like that wasn't necessarily necessary for as a case to give fourfold in Exodus, like to pay back in kind was if you stole a shape and it was still alive, you pay back with to shape. Is that, am I getting this right? But then you put was Exodus 22 one, but then if you, you know, there was a sheep and you stole it and then it died.
You had to pay back in four fold . So it was like the heavier the scene, the like four fold you is what you had to pay back by law. So Zika has made that decision. Like he saw his, you know, this defrauding this sin as bad enough to pay back in like as four-fold . Wow. Yes. And so it reminds me of the cause of mother Teresa . You know, she says that I am the greatest of sinners. I'm the greatest of sinners and our recognition of our sin causes us again to be sort of extravagant in our worship .
Now bringing back to God and the importance as well of giving to the poor. And I think as Christians, as Catholics, it's so important that we give to the poor and like putting his some money aside and when part of our wage in our 10%, not only as a tie but also to the poor, opening a bank account to puts a , a certain amount of money every month to make sure that we're giving to the poor because that's a part of our encounter with God. Okay .
The , I don't think you can have had an encounter with Jesus and not have a passion , um , to , to help the poor. I think it's, it's a , it comes part and parcel with who we are as Christians. And even taking like taking the example of the case and doing that straight away. Like I think that it's easy and no young adults, I've just finished uni and big deal.
Um, but you know, at uni it was like, Oh, I can't really afford to give to the poor right now because I'm trying to struggle through and pay rent this week. But you know, it doesn't, I don't have to give the same amount as someone else. Like the widow that gave her two coins, which is called to give what we can. And you know, as the case came down the tree, he made haste and he didn't waste any time.
And I think that we're called to do the same in meeting with Jesus, but also in giving to the poor. And you know, Jesus hadn't even left his house and he'd made that decision to give away half of his wealth to the poor. And you know, maybe we can't afford to give half of it, but whatever we can afford, we should do that. And we should do that. You know, now, not when we kind of think that we'll be ready.
Or like you were saying before, father, all black wealth, you know, if we have more about, we can give more away. But yeah, yeah. It's not about the monetary, you know, the number or how many zeros there are. It's about what we can give away. And maybe that's not money. Maybe that's time, maybe that's going and serving in a soup kitchen. There's something we can give to the poor. And it's, if we really have encountered Jesus, it's an overflow. We have a passion to do that.
And we can use social media, can do things
to be , um, activists in a sentence to helping poverty. So there are so many ways we can do this. But I think that this point is that at the end of the day, it is not just testimony, it's not just encounter, but it's action. And there's this story of this, of this woman, you know, and they , she went to this prayer group and, and this was an amazing prayer group where people came up to the front, this revival meeting and people were talking about how Jesus impacted their lives.
And there were these women that would come. One man would come one after the other and talk about how Jesus impacted their lives. But the more she had this woman had the , the angrier she got. And one of the ministers, the pastors there, asked them , why are you angry? Why, why are you seeming so angry? And the thing is, she said this, she said, four of those women that gave their testimony, that talked about how Jesus impacted their lives and changed their lives.
Four of those women owe me money. Now, the thing is, I live in poverty. I live without the means to provide for my children. I live without the means to , to know whether I'm going to have enough money to, to, to , um, to eat tomorrow. And yet these women who are talking about Jesus owe me money and have done nothing to help me. And so how can I look, come to this meeting and appreciate what Jesus has done when they haven't , um, done what is just and what is right?
And so again, so testimony is good. Conversion is good, but it has to be followed by action. So these , um , four things which we learned from [inaudible] this week,
and I think that's exactly like an engine where they is exactly what Jesus is doing in this story here. It's that, you know, for the past few weeks, it's all been parables. There was the woman searching for the coin, there was the lost sheep, there was all these parables about going out and seeking, you know, seeking the lost in helping the poor. And then this is where Jesus does that.
In example, he follows through his words with, you know, these concrete actions and shows all these people that have been following him and listening to him exactly what that looks like.
Yes. And again, to be as a Christian, as do encountered Jesus, to have this relationship with Jesus, to have this relationship with the community, but also again, having a bird and a passion to help others to restore what we have done wrong, but also to go over and above and to help the poor and the broken and the lost.
So that's it for this week. Thank you so much for joining us. We're really glad to be back in the office in recording. Welcome back. Farther on .
Yes. And also, I forgot to mention we haven't used social media as well. We are w what does that, how can they can make contact with us?
Instagram, it's a like at Catholic influences than an underscore. Um, so yeah, please get in touch with us on that one. There . Is there going to be a bit more than just, you know, the regular weekly updates. We're going to show some behind the scenes. We want to get your feedback, everything like that. So please follow us on Catholic influences so that we can be in touch with you and get to know you more. Um, but fig, social media, Facebook, Instagram and Twitter as well. So
an email, snail mail, emails, snail mail. We got snail mail this week. Oh, really? Am podcast listener. Oh wow. So there you go. So it works. So actually you do B O box 96 Strath Dale , Victoria, three five five zero Australia, Australia. Um, yeah. So please get in touch with this. It's been a real joy to have you and be back next week. I'll stand away . Go see .