Gianno Goes to Therapy, with Dr. Drew

from this conversation. Let's go Welcome to Outlow with Giano called Bow, Dr and Drew is such an honor to be on with you. You have a long career of certainly only a lot that I can learn from as uh someone who has a podcast here, and I just want to thank you for assuring sharing your expertise with my audience. Thank you for coming on Outlowed with Gianna called Well, Thank you, thank you for having me absolutely so many of our listeners have probably listened to you

for a very very long time. You've been on television and a radio since nine eighties. How would you say the viewers attitudes and habits have changed since then? When it comes to consumption of help related news and information. Well, it's a massive topic. I mean, it's it's it's literally a different world. I mean, I can't even tell you how different it is. Let let me just just talk for a second about how we seem to approach just

let's say this current pandemic. I mean, I was very The reason I got involved in radio was HIV and AIDS, which at the time I got involved in radio, we just had stopped calling GRIDS get related to testinal disease syndrome. We're just starting to call it AIDS. We didn't have a causative organism yet. And one Anthony Fauci was encouraging us young doctors to get out there and educate because he kept saying, they're gonna be two million dead, two

million dead. We're gonna have two million deaths if you don't get out there and change people's behavior. And we ended up with a hundred seventy five thousand at that same time interval, and uh, it really motivated me to go out and and talk to people. Now, we didn't at that time, go if you have sex with somebody, you're going to murder them. You're a murderer. How we do that now? If you if you go around without a mask, you're murdering grandma. That is insane. That is

the worst possible health messaging I've ever heard. And yet we seem to have adopted that as axiomatic. Now. So there's that issue, this sort of hysteria with which we're approaching everything. Then we have, of course, the Internet that kind of made love lines sort of obsolete because people had all the information at their fingertips. Why do they need be? And yet what I'm finding is they're just as confused as ever. They just the the is such

a vast gap between information and knowledge. People don't understand how to apply information, how to assess information, how to consolidate it into a landscape of other information. They just look at facts as well, they look at things presented as acts by the Internet, and they just don't know what to do with it. People are as in weird ways, as confused as ever as ever. Yet they kind of know the words, they just don't know what to do

with them. Yeah, and I completely agree with that assessment. And I'll also say, uh to COVID, you talk about Dr Anthony Fauci and a lot of the things that was said earlier on seemed to be incorrect, and attitudes around some of the the preventative measures have kind of changed. You look at the CDC measures saying, hey, you wouldn't necessarily have to quarantine for fourteen days, maybe we take it down the seven. I remember initially they were saying,

you know, mass would make a difference. Now seemingly they make a lot of difference. But you've also you made comments before that you you've said that, uh, perhaps you shouldn't have said when it comes to COVID, what were what I what I apologize for. In fact, I kind of got it right, But what I apologize for was not appreciating how brutal it is in the very at

risk populations. And I've seen a out of COVID now and and in certain situations it's it's brutal, But for the most part, for the of people who contract COVID, it's the flu. And that's kind of what I was saying that we were I could see the panic coming. I could see the way the press was framing this thing before it ever hit these shores. They were using words to describe what was going on in Italy, which

was frankly a mismanaged situation. They were using staggering, grim, cataclysmic. Well, well now we're, you know, many hundreds thousands of cases later. What words are you going to use now, guys? I mean just the excesses in what they how they reported things, And so it became impossible for anyone to know are we are we in trouble? Is there are there a lot of cases? There are there a few cases? Is

everyone getting really sick? Are there enough hospital bets? It's just I was on the news two nights ago and they were reporting a hospital it was overflowing. They have to take a closet and turn it into an ICU. So I went in and found what was going on. They had a neonatal I see you. They weren't using anymore that they stored things in for a short while that they reopened as an adult. I see you, perfectly reasonable, perfectly normal procedure. And of of again, the headline was

I see you overflowing. What percentage of the I c you beds do you imagine with that headline were filled with COVID cases? It was other things, and those other things are typically illnesses. First of all, this time of year, we always get i CEU surges and people are delaying coming to the hospital because of the horrible panic porn

that the press is creating. Wow, and people are being disenfranchise who have legitimate and serious health situations because I know a lot of hospitals and doctors said hey, we can't do your surgery because of COVID, or don't come in for this situation because of COVID and UM. It seems like they realized that was a bad strategy because now they are They're not They're trying not to stop

doing what hospitals do. They're trying to continue their usual they're they're obviously not doing elective stuff, but the they're trying to preserve beds where they can, but they're trying to function. Healthcare was trying to function and most of the beds are filled with usual fair non non COVID. COVID is just adding a stress to the system, which is what happened in pandemics. Happened in two thousand and ten with the H one N one pandemic, and yet

no one was even aware that happened. Yeah, and that's so interesting that this pandemic has impacted at least COVID has impacted African Americans at such an extreme rate. And I was on the let me let me tell you something interesting. Uh, this is what this is. I'm really very upset about this, and you need to help me with this. Because there are nine percent of the population in Los Angeles are African American, and yet they're only getting seven percent of the COVID cases in Los Angeles.

African Americans are doing better than every one else, and Hispanics are doing vastly more poorly. Why Why isn't the Public Health Department going in and figuring out what's going right in the African American community and what's going wrong in the Hispanic and rather than using a sledge hammer and shutting down all of southern California, use a damn scalpel. And I've been saying this lately. I mean, what if when there was a typhoid outbreak in Manhattan at the

turn of the century, they shut down Manhattan. No, the public Health Department went in and followed the cases, and they found typhoid mary. They extracted typhoid mary, and the outbreak stopped. That's how public health is done. What happened to our public health officials. It's the weirdest thing. Well, I think the public health officials in in Los Angeles. They're shutting down indoor and outdoor nining and then going

out to nine. So I mean, what they're doing, and now they're now they're being called the court because this is capricious, no evidence. The scariest thing I hear them saying is what we have to do something. When I was training residents, and I taught internal medicine for several years. When I was training residents, I would always tell them, just give me your reasoning, make your decision. I won't fault you just as long as you have an evidence.

You show me the literature, the published literature that backs up your decision. I don't care if I think it's wrong, I'll I will defend your decision. But if you a don't know what to do, if you've made a mistake, you don't have a backup plant or be say I just did it because I had to do something, I swear to God I will I'll get your license. That is that is the do no harm is our first credo in medicine. And again public health officiers are saying, we just had to do something. That is how you

kill people. So I'm deeply concerned with the functioning of our public health departments. I don't understand what happened to them. They've abandoned what we knew know to be effective public health messaging. They're using a sledge hammer as opposed to a scalpel, which is, you know, again, look at where the outbreaks are coming from and shut it down where they're emanating, and then find out what you're doing right

in places where it's going well. And then this idea of no risk reward analysis and just doing something just to do something is horrific. It's horrific. That's how you hurt people. So you would argue that the public health officials that are in charge of places like Los Angeles, Chicago and some of these other places where you see cases skyrocketing, they're they're failing the citizens and the residents of those areas. I don't know. I don't know what

they're doing. I don't understand what they're doing. I I know that they've got problems and they need to intervene. I understand that. Why don't they even talk about how well it's going in the African American community, why don't they even talk about what's going on in the Hispanic community and try to figure out why why that's going so badly? What is wrong with them? That's what you do in public health, and why are they not really

focused on a expanding hospital capacity? That's their job? And then be vaccine distribution. So far, vaccine distribution has been a complete disaster. When when I end with you, I'm calling my hospital and I'm gonna call the staff department and I'm gonna find out what is going on with their vaccine distribution because thus far they've sent us some some guidance saying, well, we have a tier system, but we really don't know how much vaccine we're gonna get.

We made us rely on a lottery, a lottery for people that are working in the ICU with COVID patients. This is insane department, absolutely, and I want to discuss that further. But let's take a quick break first. Let's stay with us. And you know and you you you mentioned Los Angeles, the numbers in Los Angeles, but it's been reported in terms of African Americans, but it's been reported nationally. The African Americans hadn't done as well. When

it comes to COVID. In fact, they had a whole I've had a whole debate which I encourage people to go over to my Instagram at Giano Caldwell. I was on air on election Day out of Chicago. I was on one of the Fox affiliates. In this journalists tried to attack me when I said, hey, you know, folks should just research both candidates, and I mentioned some of the very good things that President Donald Trump has done

for the African American community. And I didn't know if he thought he was talking to someone who was an empty suit or couldn't think for themselves. I'm not sure what is what his goal was, but he tried to hit me with the fact that African Americans nationally hadn't done as well when it comes to COVID, and he tried he tried to pend that on Donald Trump. Now, my response is underlying health conditions that exist within the African American community which makes them more susceptible to the

issue of COVID. Can you speak to that a little bit and that that kind of shut them up, but still in for people to understand. Right, So, so you're talking about diabetes and obesity, right, that's one of them. Rather, yeah, I mean, and hypertension and and and those are the things that really, you know, when people go a hight risk for COVID. Here's what makes get risk for COVID advanced age, obesity, metabolic syndrome which includes diabetes and so resistance,

and antiphosphilipid center. The people that really do badly have antiphosphilipid syndrome. And and that's it. Oh yes, However, I just read a study that said that African Americans when they get sick, do better than other other races. So for a while there I was hearing they were doing more poorly in terms of adverse outcomes. Now here's a study that says they do better. They're more likely to get it nationally, but apparently more likely to do well.

But yes, those do well when they get COVID to recompense what's like to die, I really was their endpoint. But but again I don't know, that's one study. You know, I just surprised me that that was a study that showed up. But but b that as it may. I mean, you know, and people look at ibet is, obesity and

and hypertension in African Americans. They go, this is uh, this is exposing some sort of something, and you can put a label to it, like systemic racism in our healthcare delivery system, and uh yeah, yeah, it's exposing something.

We should be doing something about that. But you think that systematic racism that black folks are, you don't know what to call these things until I understand what's going on, right, someone's got to go in and study what is going on now if it is all dietary, and then we can got to analyze why are people making these dietary choices? Is it economic? Is it people are marketing to African Americans? I would argue taking advantage of through marketing strategies for

high fat, high corn syrup, high sugar. That's that's that's that's I could put racism in that category. That seems wrong to me. But I don't know if that's what's causing it. I don't know. We have to go look at somebody's got to study it. Yeah, you know. I tend to to push back a bit when people say

that it's just systemic racism. When you have the responsibility of taking care of your own body, working out, eating right, exercising, now there's an argument to be made in terms of there being the food deserts in particular communities, poor communities, marginalized communities, black communities. Okay, that's that's a conversation or you know what. By the way, so you know what what you're getting at though, and it's what I'm getting at two, which is I don't know quite what people

mean when they say systemic racism. I'd like to be more more accurate, more specific, And then once we zero in on a pinpoint exactly what the issue is, then stand back and ask ourselves, is, hey, is that racism? Is there racism involved in this? And how would we understand that? And I there's at least not you know, sometimes not being sensitive to certain communities needs is if

you want to call that racism, I'm okay with that. Okay. Now, my my intrigue on that matter is I believe that people apply racism too far too much things that are clearly not racist. People have say the trees, races, I mean, it's just all kinds of things, and we've not to find our terms right. We don't know what we're talking about anymore. That's what bothers me. I'm a scientist. So you've gotta be very precise with what you're talking about.

And some people think you're talking about one thing, other people think you're talking about another. So now it's gobbledygoop. Just agree with that. So we we got to be very careful, and I think people um had to be very careful because I no, there's a lot of desire to please the social justice warriors out there, and I'm all for social justice. Let me be clear, I think racism does exist and it's something that has to be

stomped out. But at the same time, I've seen politically democrats use the label for the benefit of their elections, and that's what's um. I think just just horrific, a bludgeon or a political tool, and I would argue you're being used when when politicians do that. I got a question. You gotta help me with the term white supremacy. That's another term that's very non specific these days, and I

find people are meaning different things. My sense of that got sort of the scales fell from my eyes when I read Frederick Douglas's biography, and in the opening of that biography he gives a speech and I can't I get chills when I think about what an incredible human being that man was, and if we don't we don't we don't teach him enough, humbly. And he was sort of was asked to to give a consecration of this

essentially freeing slave monument in Washington. He and he got up and goes, first of all this you know, he just said, like, this is not a this is not our monument. This is this is from a different perspective. This is a perspective of the white person. And you're You're Lincoln, whom you love and who I adore. By the way, I'm a dig Lincoln a file. He went, he was a white supremacist. And I just thought I would It's straight like they cut through me like like

some sort of knife. I was like, what's my my Abraham Lincoln? And then I started thinking about it. I go, oh, I see what he means. He's talking about Eurocentric perspective on life and that and that the he's asking for a more empathic, attuned look from other people's perspective who are in a mominary group. And and it's stays, I am fine with that assessment of white supremacy, but I don't think people need mean that when they use it anymore,

tell me help me. You know, when it comes to a lot of the founders, when we think you think about Abraham Lincoln who freed the slaves, you think about George Washington, who owned slaves. When you think about Thomas Jefferson's and a lot of these individuals who helped to found our country, helped to put our country on a

particular footing. It for me, I recognized the fact that these were imperfect men, and I also recognized the fact that what they did in terms of owning slaves and the culture of that moment was absolutely wrong, full stop. And the next question then comes, can you separate the bad that people have done from the good and can you look at those as in two different lenses? You look at Okay, this is positive, Lincoln free the slaves

or whatever have you. Can you look at that? And I would argue that you can, And I would say I admire Heidegarian philosophy. And let's be clear, he was a Nazi, you know, and yet his philosophy is has changed the Western lexicon, the continental European lexicon. And I think we can we can separate, you know, the horrible choices that people make in a historical context from their

particularly they're written philosophies. And let me say this because I'm before people start calling us both out on this conversation on social media, the media, or whatever the case is. I want to I want to improve my position. I want to I want to make it better, and I think I think that's appropriate. I think there's people who were clearly racist, and that's that was their whole point. They wanted to profit off the work and the back of men who should have been freed and we're stolen

from their own country. That those are people who who that was their only incentive. They wanted to profit. And then there were people who did some good things. But I also argue, if we're bringing it to common day, I think Democrats, who oftentimes apply racist labels too pretty

much everything that favors them at that moment. I think about somebody like Joe Biden who sponsored and pushed forth their Institutetionarly Races ninety four crime bill, and Democrats clearly see that as a fault, but they're willing to accept him in spite of so if they can separate, certainly there's other areas that can be separated. But I just find it to be such a major hypocrisy when it

comes to Republicans who do things wrong. And if you notice Republicans who often they say something racist, they do something racist, oftentimes the party looks to expel those folks versus people like, um, what the Virginia governor, uh, Governor Northam who's still in office, and he has a very questionable history when it comes to race. So these are one of those things where people play political games versus

just calling things out for what they should be. And I think that's that's an issue that that happens in this country. It's okay, well, I'm not gonna call out my side because I don't want to get my side in trouble, but I'm willing to call out the other side. That is deep hypocrisy and that needs to end in

this country full stop. H Now, my question for you because you, I mean, you have such a prolific career, uh in terms of just medicine, as you mentioned you were in turnings or you are one, You've been a doctor, You've the love Line was started in nine four and ended in twos sixteen, and your your syndicated radio talk show Dr Drew and call on hl n UM Life

Changes on the CW. We go to Celebrity Rehab with Dr Drew, Sex Rehab with Dr Drew, which I'm sure was quite an interesting experience, and the list goes on and all your master at media and being able to disseminate a message of a high caliber and do it in a simplistic way that people can understand. What sparked your interest in Madison? Madison to begin with medicine? I'm sorry, you know, I come from a medical family, and it was always sort of assumed, Oh, you're gonna be like

your dad, blah blah blah. And then when I got to college, I was like, well, I'm not up for this. I don't want to do this. And I kind of fished around for about it a couple of years, and then I came back. I thought, you know, I really missed the sciences, and just the idea of going back into some sort of more rigorous training kind of made me feel better. And so I started going down that path. And I was just telling my son this morning that

I would walk out in the parking lot. I remember every day after anatomy lab at the end of my first year, you know, each day at the end of first year classes and I would just get my car and just go, oh my god, I'm so glad I'm doing this. It is so exciting that such important material I cannot wait to get into the wards. It just it just was in me and so I because it was more of a calling and and it was a

deep interest as a scientist too. Um. It's something that I'm just really grateful I did, and it was something I did essentially overdid for about twenty fifteen years. I sort of crammed three careers into one where I was running medical services in a psychiatric hospital. I was doing inpatient and outpatient general medicine, and then ended up running addiction services for a large psychiatric hospital. And that was

a lot. That was a lot, and and it gave me a perspective on the human experien arians in medicine that almost nobody gets anymore. So I've been spending the last few years trying to just give that back because I just like, no one has this perspective that I have. And and you oftentimes dealt with those who were battling with addiction, but you also under understanding from a much different lens. And I say that because from the age of about eight years old into my twenties, my mom

was addicted to crack, cocaine and other drunks. And for me, even though I'm now thirty three, December twenty seven, i'll be thirty four years old, it's still something that I deal with the issues of my mom abandoning me and my other siblings as a as a youngster, and she gave custody of me and my siblings to her mother. At the time, she was a private duty nurse. And then she pulls out the garage one day she gets hit by a drunk driver, injured her back, and she

can no longer work. So we lived that must have sent her down an obiit pass well, no, no, no, no, that that was my grand That was my grandmother. So my mother gave her custody of me and my siblings to my grandmother, and my grandmother was doing fine at that at one point, but then she got into a car accident to a drunk driver hit her and she could no longer work. So what it ultimately did is set us on a path of poverty and government assistance.

And as one who has had to deal with this issue because I had, like an absent mom had for many years. It would be times where I would see her for one day, she would pop up on us for a day, maybe she'll stick around for two and then she'll be gone for nine months, a year or

even more than that. And it was such a horrific experience for us, and it remains for a lot of my siblings that way, because they feel as though, although we're pretty much all adults now except for maybe one or two of my siblings, is nine of us, she had a bunch of bunch of kids. It feels like a lot of us are still dealing with the emotional trauma of abandonment, not having an active mother present. And then some of them kind of got off into drugs

themselves and and and crime. Not to the degree that she did in terms of the drugs, but it's still one that harms um our family to this day, and it's one in which I've I've already began counseling a long time ago to kind of move on from that, because it impacted my relationships with women, being in a relationship, dating, all those different things, and you know, some of my other stories, Um, you know some of my other stories.

So it just and it compounds all of those different things, and it's like, how do you deal with families that are dealing with those issues that the epidemic of. Um, these are massive, massive topics. So so let's just first deal with your romantic misadventures. When you have a traumatic relationship with a parent, it it sets a kind of an attachment and what some people call a love map that makes you incredibly attracted to people and places even

though they don't look like it to you emotionally. On some level, you know are constructed and are just like mom in some fashion, you'll be super attracted to people with those qualities, like just for instance, sort of the the common trope of you know, a young lady with an abandoning father is magically attracted to guys that abandoned her, and we just and it's called a traumatic reenactment traumas

of childhood. We reenact, particularly in our romantic relationships, but no one ever examines really how they get set up. It really gets set up through attractions where we become variant. You mentioned that sex addiction show I did, and that's what that was all about. People that had a high degree of trauma and childhood then re enacting the trauma over and over and over again in their adult life and not understanding the sort of pathways that we're setting

it up. So that's one of the manifestations of childhood trauma uma. The other is, you know, physical abuse, abandonment. All that stuff changes the wiring of our nervous system. It makes us to have difficulty in regulating our emotions. If you then also have the genetic potential for addiction, and let's be fair, addiction is a genetic disorder accounted for on the basis of genetics. On the basis of genetics alone, but if you have trauma and the genetic potential,

that's rocket fuel for addiction. That that's how you because people are unregulated, have to reach outside of themselves to regulate, and then you trigger addiction. They have two problems, trauma

and addiction. And then the third issue you're bringing up, which is the more profound one, not that these other things aren't profound too, but this is the really profound thing that we struggle with, which is the intergenerational transmission of trauma, which is something that unfortunately is sort of ignored, really ignored by politicians, and something that we have to come to terms with in this country because it's having it's really the reason we're in all the mess we're

in right now. So per your analysis, right now, I'm attracted to, or rather it's some way shape or form could be attracted to women who in some way reminds me of my mother. So not remind you of your mother, but but is put that the the romantic entanglement is put together in such a way that those old mechanisms

are reactuated. So that's what happens in therapy. What happens in therapy is you, over time will form a healthy attachment to the therapist and then helpfully now go out in the world and use those sorts of attachments as your templates for romantic choices. As it is now what people with trauma and abandonment use. They use intensity. They confuse intensity for love, and intensity is the problem you have to avoid, well, not avoid, but you have to

recognize intensity. We always tell trauma survivors that are making recurrent romantic choices that are end up being traumatic enactments. Think butterflies, not lightning bolts. Butterflies not lightning bolts, and you won't be able to do that if you've not had therapy, you'll you'll keep making the same choice. Therapy again disentangles that and brings your attachment into the therapist that that rewires the templates in your head. Let's put

it that way. Huh. I never thought about it that way. Let's continue from there in a moment right after we take a quick break. When you say that, I think about a scenario that took place in my life some years ago, and you you know about this personally. So about seven years ago, almost eight years ago, I've been single, and I've been single because I had fell in love with a young lady who was outstandingly beautiful. She seemingly

was very into God and church. And it's been a great deal of time together because I want a woman that to believe her Christian and she was very hungry to improve herself, and we spent a great deal of time together, and things just begin to feel very unsettled, and I couldn't figure out what was going on why

it felt so unsettled. So I ended up getting onto a smartphone somehow and and being able to see the contents of it while I was away on a business trip, and what I discovered is this woman was a secret escort and she was dealing with some of the most powerful people in the country. And as you can imagine, I was completely and totally heartbroken. I couldn't trust anyone.

I couldn't trust any woman. But in that case, I just couldn't figure out what to do until I went to counseling and things became better, because at one point it seemed like I was just kind of pushing all the attention away for me, you know, women who wanted to date me and women that I was actually I found attractive, but I was kind of pushing it away, and I began to feel and think, was I commitment? Folk?

I come to the realization that I'm not a commitment folbe, but the very real possibility of me becoming one, I think, was present. Well, what what happens again, This is sort of the typical pattern is that people with that I mean first starts of all, you you avoiding intimacy at that point with sort of a self preservation movement as

a reasonable thing. But what happens is the typical pattern is that people will sabotage real relationships or just not be interested in them and have lightning bolts for these people that they shouldn't be involved with, and then get re traumatized by them, re traumatized and you you see that and relationships, romantic and other relationships. The love line was, the love line was, every call was, you know, pointing

out these patterns to people. So so the recommendation from you for people who have dealt with those very dramatic situations is to go get with the therapists and you can be here. Recommendation is to take yourself by the hand and see if you what it's like to get involved with somebody that you don't have an intense attraction for, that you just have sort of a mild attraction for again butterflies, not lightning bolts, and see what that relationship

feels like. And if you sabotage it or get bored with it or pull away from it, you have your answer, because then that's that could have been a relationship that you are sabotaging and you can't tolerate. You have an intimacy disorder at that point, and that needs to be treated. It can be treated quite readily, intimacy. But here's the thing.

You said, just a mild attraction to aren't we all looking for the best looking person and as the best qualities we can be attracted to, not necessarily I mean, and by the way, that means very different things to different people, And so you know it's you'd be surprised as you do this work what you're attracted to changes markedly. Can you tell us about one of these cases you experienced. It was a tough case and you you ended up

getting the person on the right track? Well, I mean, one that thing people can can watch is um we in the Sex of It and show. It's funny that we're talking about. That show was just one of the shows we did. But we treated a porn star. Her name in the porn industry was Penny Flame we knew, or Jennifer Ketchum. And what you will see is and she came in. She had no intention of getting treatment. It turned out she had a she had all kinds of stuff going on and she didn't really realize any

of it. But we got through to her right away by calling her Jennifer Jenny. No one had called and they've been calling her Penny for the last ten years.

And this was a pseudo self that she was living in and we just cut through that and said, no, I want to I want to use know Jennifer, and she started dropping some of the bullshit and you will see her go through the process of really sex addiction treatment at that point, but ultimately stayed with therapy for quite some time after we did the acute treatment, realized she had a cocaine and cannabis problem also, and got

into recovery from that. And now she is a really talented social worker married with a yeah social worker, yeah, how her therapist, she's a therapist, and she has a child that she has a stable relationship with somebody she loves. And she had severe intimacy problems, severe and lots of similar trauma as to what you're describing. Lots of stuff with the dad with cocaine and the mom abandoning the

kids and the whole thing. Usual stuff. These are these are common stories that we have to get much more realistic about their impact. And how long did it take for her to to get on track to to that degree? It was the years? Was it years? I mean it was years, but it wasn't decades. I mean at end of a decade, she was a social worker, you know, and she I'd say, I'd say five to seven years. She was well in hand. She was well in hand. Wow, Okay, well switching gears because I know you you. You have

to get out of here shortly. The show wouldn't be complete without at least gazing the field of politics. What is your impression of the outcome of the election in the current state of things? I am my my My fundamental position when I just examine my feelings are that I'm I'm tired. I'm just so tired of the weird negativity and the Trump derangement syndrome. And I'm just so tired. I'm tired. Mr Trump makes me tired to some of the things he's played. You're not the only one, but

so so. I'm happy to see things settled down. How they settle down. I almost don't have a I don't have an opinion. I'm just glad they're settling down. We've exposed some things about ourselves in the process of all this, and we did take a very good look at ourselves. We've been behaving like the mobs during the French Revolution. There's a certain I'm going to reread I just got out of affect them in the room where I'm gonna pull the book out right now, Notes from the Underground

by Dostoevsky. Because everyone has become like that main character in that, in that, in that, in that novel, and I'm wondering what that means. We have to start, you know, this is pertinent to this conversation. We have to become empathic. We have to stop acting out envy. We we have to change because it's we're behaving like the mobs during the French Revolution and pulling out the guillotines for every little thing that it's ridiculous. And so we'll see and

you think the Trump the arrangement syndrome, that's that. And I was going to ask you about that, but that's like a a real thing for It's not a ds M five, you know category, but a boy. You sure see it everywhere. And because I don't have it, I don't have any. I'm a very middle of the road moderate if if anything, I lean libertarian. But I see the craziness on both sides, and so it's really easy for me to call it out because I see it,

I see it operating. It's like you're this is any and these it's it's what we used to call neuroticism. We have to we have to we have to get much more critical in our thoughts. We have to recognize envy where it's corrosive. We have to be more empathic, and we have to be more thoughtful and not so hysterical. I mean, look with the COVID thing is another part of that. We started talking about that. That's another that's another derangement syndrome that we have. And uh, it needs

to change. We need to change. We need to get ahold of ourselves and we need to you know, go back to the golden rule, go back to communities, go back to our family and relationships and all the good stuff you and I were talking about. You know, we need to function better in our relationships. And if we have trauma and it's been delivered to it. I've had trauma for my parents. You know, there's a lot of intergenerational trauma. You know, my family escaped the Ukrainian genocide,

and uh, and that stuff gets transmitted to you. It just gets through to you and you have to be aware of it and you have to deal with it. And on a final note from Dr Drew, have more empathy and I appreciate that. And for folks who may be interested in knowing my mom is doing well. She's no longer on drugs and she now works in the in the health care field caring for people who were in similar situation. Is like her. But at the same time the kind of people that I keeps me working

every day. These recoveries are miraculous, but you have to recover too. She was very sick when you were a child, and that illness not your mom, the illness had an impact on you. Well. I look forward to doing counseling sessions with you, doctor we end up writing together. As we've just I'll pull the curtain back a little bit. We've talked a little bit about. Trust me, those are extremely emotional and very therapeutic sessions when we really get

deep into writing the writing process. Listen, I'm all game, and I want to thank you so much for coming on out loud with Gianno Caswell. And we certainly appreciate your very logical and research based opinion. No conspiracy theories here. So for folks who may want to listen to this, you know you've got folks. We got democrats that listen in some left wing publications. They love to drum up

some some hates. So for those who are listening this fave base I am or something I said, here's my approach. If I stepped on a landmine somewhere, please help me do a better job. I want to do better. And if if my mind needs to be changed about something, I want my mind to be changed. I don't want to sit in a silo and here an echo. I would love to grow and expand my view of things. So please, if anybody takes issue with any of these things I love, but but don't don't use envy and

aggression as a way of feeding back. Just give me the feedback and that will change my mind. You know, we say to our kids, I can't hear you when you talk like that. It's hard to hear people when they're being aggressive and envious. Just just just tell me how I can do a better job, and I'm all for it. Dr Drew. Everyone is when we have the collapse. We don't have the radio technology. But I want to thank you for coming to out low with Gianno called

Will has certainly been a pleasure. Dr Drew privileges mine will talk. So thank you to Dr Drew for a great interview. If you're enjoying the show, please leave us a review and rate us with five stars on Apple Podcast. If you have any questions for me, please email me at out Loud at ginger Street sixty dot com and I'll try to answer them in our future episodes. You can also follow me on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and parlor

at Giano Caldwell. And if you're interested in learning more about my story, please pick up a copy of my best selling book title Taken for Granted, How Conservatism Can Win back to Americans that liberalism failed. Special things to our producers Stephen Calabria, researcher Aaron Klingman, and executive producers Debbie Myers and of course speaker New Gingridge all part of the Gingridge three sixty Network, part of the gainer Street sixty Network