Episode 47: The Former Inmate Who Became the Face of Criminal Justice Reform

Welcome back to Outline with Gianno Caldwell. I'm Gianno Caldwell and I have a really interesting and fascinating show this week. My guests is someone with a remarkable life story that would make for a Hollywood script. His name is Weldon Angelos. I'll save most of the details for our conversation, but to give you a basic review. In the early two thousands, Angelo's was a young and promising hip hop producer. He had a budding new record label, Extravagant Records, and was

on his way to the top. But then Angelo sold a few hundred dollars worth of cannabis also known as marijuana weed to a police informant over multiple transactions, and everything went downhill. Angelos had no prior criminal record, but because the informant said Angelos had a firearms strap to his ankle, he was sentenced to fifty five years in prison. Federal law made fifty five years the minimum sentence allowed,

even though this was the first time marijuana offense. Eventually, after well over a decade in prison, Angelo's was released in twenty things to a major bipartisan effort, and then last year President Trump fully pardoned him. Today, Angelos is the new face of criminal justice reform, especially cannabis related issues. I'll ask him about what he went through, what he's doing now, and his work where President Trump on criminal justice reform. Let's go. Well, then, I'm really excited to

have you on out loud what Giano called. Well, we've been talking about cannabis, uh, in terms of on television, radio media. The country has been talking about it for quite a while, and your story, I think is one which is one of the most fascinating I've heard. I learned about it many many years ago, probably about four years ago, when you were released from jail, when Senator Mike Lee of Utah, actually I believe he wrote an

op add on it. So I wanna just start off the conversation before we dig into cannabis the criminal justice reform aspect of it. I wanted to have you take my listeners through your life story and what happened to you. Tell us about what life was like before you were arrested and ultimately sentenced to prison in two thousand and four. Yeah, so um for that, I would say. Back going back to around nineties ninety six, I started working on a career in the music industry. UM. I had, um, somehow

made my way into the hip hop world. UM with a lot of the folks silver at Death Row Records, including Snoop Dogg's group The Dog Pound and two pops group Outlaws, And a few years after that, I ended up founding my own record label, and Snoop Dogg, you know, gave me an opportunity to produce some music with him.

Ended up at his house making some records and producing a whole album with Snoop, And you know, my career just sort of took off from there, and I started working with some of the biggest names in the industry, and I sort of put myself in the crosshairs of

the of the federal government. Um. You know, back in my hometown of Salt Lake City, Utah, where I was bringing you know, Snoop and mac dray and all the people I was working with, you know, to do shows and and just kind of opened up the scene there, and uh, you know, it was something that was kind of new, you know, to that to that town at the time, and so the authorities thought there must be something going on here, you know, outside of music, and

so they sent a confidential informant to come try to you know, see what was going on. And you know, really all it was was making records and smoking cannabis, UM, And so the informants decided to buy some of the cannabis and it was just like a few hundred dollars worth on three occasions, was nothing, no profit made. It was just like here you go, UM. And the federal government attempted to you know, get guns and coke and meth,

and you know that wasn't what was happening. You know, we were just making music and and you know, smoking cannabis and UM. When they realized that they weren't going to get anything else, they indicted me Um on a few counts, hoping that that would lead to enough pressure

to bring down people in hip hop. And when it didn't and we laughed at them for what they were trying to do, they secured superseding indictments where they ended up turning these three cannabis charges, you know, worth nine dollars total into a twenty count federal indictment where I'm facing a hundred years of mandatory imprisonment. Um because of

you know, how how the case you know, initially started. Um, you know, there was really no trust for me and my attorneys and on their end, and so you know, it forced a trial and I you know, once some counts but lost most of them, ended up with the fifty five year sentence. The sentence was so extreme even the sentencing judge, who was a very conservative George W. Bush appointee, UM, that caused him to balk at the sentence and um, you know, question the legitimacy of the

system and of the prosecutor's charging decisions. And so he actually called on the president that appointed him to pardon me. As he was handing down the sentence. He said, you know, my hands are tied. I can't do anything, but this sentence is cruel, unjustin irrational, and so I call him the president to you know, commute the sentence. UM. And then a few years later he stepped down, he stepped down from office, became my chief advocate, and other people joined,

other people joined his chorus. You know, we had a Janet Reno, who was the attorney general for Bill Clinton. We had a hundred and something you know, former federal judges, former federal prosecutors, um, and then a former prosecutor in that office who didn't you know, wasn't assigned to my case. His name was Mike Lee. He was elected to the Senate in two thousand ten, and he remembered what my

judge said. I mean, the whole legal community across the country knew my judge and his his sixty seven page opinion. And so you know, this unlikely Allies coalition to get me out was sort of you know born and and it and it consisted of you know, friends from the music industry, you know, people like Snoop Dogg and and Bonnie Rayit and Mike Gepps and Alicia Keys, with these political figures like Mike Lee and Corey Booker Um and

Rand Paul and even the Koch brothers. You know, eventually, you know got behind you know, the effort to get me out and and it was more to do with not myself being you know, an extraordinary person that was my judge, um that really you know, made all of these individuals rally around my um my cause to get

me out of jail. Now, you know, I had never ever ever in my life, and I'm sure most people can attest you don't rarely, if ever, I mean, this has thee one situation I would say, but you rarely if ever see a judge say that, hey, I don't want to give you this sentence, but his mandatory minimum. That's what we have to do. But then to go from there to then be an advocate for you as a Republican even more so especially you know, Republicans are

tough on crime. Uh. To to say that this was unreasonable and then have other Republicans as well as Democrats come together to say that it was unreasonable treatment for the crime. Uh. Now, we gotta keep in mind, deek U states all across the country of decriminalized a small amount of marijuana. Twenty seven states, including the District of Columbia. Poland has showed that almost seventy of Americans, if not more,

at this point believe in legalization of marijuana. But I gotta ask you this question, because during this time you were in your music career, You're dealing with people like Snoop Dogg, who's obviously legendary, and you never really see him without marijuana smoking anyway. I mean, that's what has been for years. But why were you selling marijuana to begin with? Yeah? So, so as I said, it wasn't like, you know, we were out there, Hey, who wants some weed?

This guy came and asked to buy some of our weed. It wasn't like, you know, it was three hundred dollars worth. I mean, I just I just signed a multimillion dollar record deal, So three hundred dollars worth the cannabis and makes fifty bucks or something is not a profitable I didn't do it for profits. So this informant was a guy that you know, used to be from my hood when when I was younger. You know, he was from

our gang. And and and so he got out of prison, you know he did he did he did a nickel, went to prison, did five, got out, he caught another case. And he had just had a kid, or at least you know, he was going to have a kid, and so he didn't want to go back. He was like, I'm done with this ship, I'm done with this lifestyle. And at this point, you know, I was in the music, I was out of the street life and all that. You know, I was done with that. He got out

and made it seem like he was too. So he was like, I just need to make some money too, you know, I got I got, I got a kid, and I just need to you know, hustle. And so I'm like, huh, you go take some you know, go do what you gotta do. And so, um, you know, that's really how it started. And um, you know, all

over that little bit of money. And you know he was asking, he was you know, they were trying to come up with enough um, you know, charges to pressure me and hopes that it would lead to the arrest of a famous rap artist. And know, the Feds have been wanting to get Snoop Snooped for a long time, anyone they really wanted, anyone. They you know, they've never seen that here. And and another reason, you know, that's

just you know, one of the motives. The other motive was, you know, what we found out later was that some of these prosecutors and agents looked at me like I was bringing Ebola, you know, into Utah, and they wanted to keep it out and so um and and you know a lot of these prosecutors and agents they're not from like Salt Lake City itself. Salway City is very diverse. So a lot of people, you know, they just say, Utah, Oh, it's all Mormons. Well, when you go to the city,

it's very diverse, it's very liberal. But when you leave the city and in the county, it gets very conservative and very Mormon. And so that you know, that's where you know, most of these prosecutors and agents are from. They didn't want that culture being brought to this city. Um. And so you know that there was two prompted. You know,

it was very racially motivated case. Um. And so in addition, if they felt like they could you know, arrest somebody famous and gets headlines and you know, get some promotions, you know, all the better. And I just want to note that the lead prosecutor in this case got an award from the Attorney General under the George Bush administration. He got an award with my name on it for the successful prosecution of Well and Angelo and so um, you know, the case was, it was a big case.

And then the lead gaining an officer who was a state agent named Jason Magron. He got promoted to be the chief of police for a city called mid Bellum, which is just you know, outside of Salt Lake. And so you know that this is the whole motivation for prosecute me had nothing to do with, oh, we we really want to take this guy down for this little

bit of weed. You know, there was other motivations that play, um, that have nothing to do with justice, right, So they wanted to get you so they can really get you to flip on Snoop or somebody else like that, to to to really have a big win. As we know normally happens when prosecut you just get involved at any level, whether they be federal prosecutor state or local, local county, whatever the deal may be. So let me ask you

this question. Do you believe that you should have went to jail at all for this or you just feel that the sentence was obviously way too harsh. Well, I'll frame it this way, and this is something my judge actually looked into and he was trying to figure out, you know what he could do besides sentenced me, and so he was getting information from various sources. He asked

the jury what an appropriate sentence would be. He reached out to the state system to figure out what would what would be the no time I would serve in the state if I were prosecuting the state, because what happened really is a state charge. It wasn't federal. There's nothing uniquely federal about these charges. It was just the way they charged it because under the state law, I

couldn't be prosecuted to to much extent. And so he found out that I could have received a misdemeanor and probation um and and that have had I went to jail in the state system, that probably would have been you know, sit months or less. And this is back in two thousand and you know too when my case happened.

I got charged in two thousand two, So in two thousand two, back then I probably could have you know, and I probably wouldn't have even seen jail or a felony because I met it was my first adult offense, and so you know, that was telling. And even my prosecutor's boss, um, who was the head u S attorney, he said you know, he felt that under the state system,

I probably would have got probation. Um, realistically, Um, you know, even though the max you know, would have been you know, zero to five years, but under the state guidelines it would have been zero months. And so, you know, should I have went to prison, well under the state law, according to state law, no, um. And so I don't think no prison was warranted. I mean, it's it's some weed, you know. Um. And I had a career, you know,

had some young kids. Um, you know, I had just made it out of poverty myself with a you know, unique opportunity to do something that you know, only few in this world gonna do. And it was taken away over some bullshit, in my opinion. And the judge, of course, who presided over your case, called the sentence unjust, cruel and irrational and wanted you to receive less time. But

according to him, there was nothing that he can do. Well, um, so you know, all he could do, he felt like he could do is go down kicking and screaming, and you know that's what he did. And he felt like,

you know, a lot of people didn't like that. A judge gets emotionally attached to a case, and so you know a lot of people asked him, like why did you get so involved in the case, and he was like, well, somebody had to speak up for Mr Angelos, you know, because obviously he couldn't do it himself, and so it

had to be him. And so, you know, when I was in the courtroom, you know, I knew that there was an effort to find the sentence unconstitutional, and so I knew my judge spent a lot of time, you know, researching this, and he we briefed it, you know, over and over and over, trying to figure out the unconstitutional for him to impose such a lengthy sentence on such low level conduct. And unfortunately, our Supreme Court precedent is lacking under the Eighth Amendment, and so you know, he

could not find a way out. And you know, I kind of figured I was going to get you know, the minimum mandatory, which was fifty five years and one day UM, possibly more um, even though he was trying to impose a sentence around ten years UM, which was still the max under the guidelines, because the prosecutors could have charged me under the sentencing guidelines rather than the mandatory minimums, where I would have received you know, anywhere from six and a half to you know, maximum of

ten years, which likely would have been probably around like seven or eight if they would have charged me into the guidelines. Um, but they wanted to charge him the mandatory minimums, you know, to try to you know, get me to flip or just to put maxi amount of pressure on me to accept a very unjust plea offer. And so you know, when I was in the courtroom, and you know, I didn't know what the judge was

gonna do. My attorney didn't know. He had never encountered a case like this before, so we none of us knew what was going to happen. And you know, when it came time, you know, I knew what was happening. When he said, after careful deliberation, I reluctantly conclude, I knew it was over with. He said, I reluctantly conclude that I have no choice but to impose a fifty five years sentence, you know, and then he imposed one day for the additional charges, and so, um, you know

it was over with. And you know that's when you know, I knew the fight to get me out began. You know, we were we had multiple attempts to appeal the case, you know, to no avail. You know, our court system, our appellate system is a joke. Um, you know, you rarely succeed. They you know, stacked the deck against you. And so you know, we really had no other option but to hope, uh, you know, a progressive president would you know, get elected, and um, you know, we could

seek a commutation. Before we move on, you need to take a break. Let me ask you this question. What was it like in that moment when you heard from the judge and he handed you down a fifty five year sentence for something that's clearly not worth while. Five years and I'm even listening to you say, well, if it was under a sentence and guidelines, then maybe it would have been sixty teen years. This this wasn't drug kingpin level crime. It was a crime so that we

would call it what it is. But it wasn't something like you're selling crack and you're getting all these people addicted. This was less than a thousand dollars. And honestly speaking, nowadays, you I've seen people with the cannabis as I've been researching and talking about it, that doesn't really get you much these days if you spent a few hundred dollars on cannabis. So it's it's kind of interesting to hear your story. What was it like in that moment when

you heard fifty five years? Well, like I said, you know, I was expecting something around them because the three there's three charges out of those sixteen, one of them was five years, the other two or twenty five and they must be served consecutively. So I knew there was at least a fifty five year mandatory minimum just on those three council loan. And it was because the way the

agents and prosecutors stacked my sentence. Now, for instance, if they really thought I was this dangerous person that they made me out to be before the judge and trial and sentencing, they really made me out to be this you know, dangerous you know, gun slinging, you know kingpin with three worth the Canadas. You know, it was really ridiculous.

They looked really stupid, and they tried to compare my case to be as being worse than second degree murder, worse than child rate, worse than terrorism, um, and you know it was laughable, um and so um, yeah, it was just real crazy man and um, you know, the judge, he had no choice. And so when I heard the fifty five years sentence, you know, it just confirmed what I already you know, thought was gonna happen, and that you know, the fight to get me out would have

to happen on appeal, you know. And and you know, but when I heard him call on the president, I didn't know. I knew he thought the sentence was unjust. He said, you know, in the very beginning, like eight months before the sentence thing, he said, the sentence appears to be cruel on justin r rational um, and he trying to find a way out. So but when he sentenced me and he said that, you know, I call on the president to commute the sentence to something more

you know, more reasonable and more just. You know, that gave me some hope. Um. You know, I didn't. I didn't have a lot of confidence in Bush, um, you know, because you know Bush was not uh somebody who was courageous and and and super immerciful um. And neither was his staff. Um. So I really didn't think there was much of a chance there. My hope was, you know, in the next administration, because when I got sentenced. You know, Bush just one re election and so we were stuck

with him for another four years. UM. And so you know, my hope was in the appill at court. UM. But while we were you know, working on a hill in this UM, we were building support from as many people as possible, and it was growing every day. You know, we had a hundred and sixty three you know, former d J officials, former federal judges, UM. And then you know, we we just kept building and building support and and

just trying to get as many people behind. You know, my case is possible to get me out now and that and that's really interesting to hear this, this major bipartisan effort. And I want to get into that in a moment, but I want to ask you, so, when you went to jail, what was the prison experience like, especially considering what you went in there for. You're in

there with hardened criminals, murderers. You're in there with real drug kingpins, people who are probably made millions or hundreds of thousands of dollars selling drugs, and murderers and all this other stuff. What was that experience like for you? Were you afraid for your life or what was it? Now? I wasn't afraid for my life, but I was because you know this, I was young and I was hard headed and um. You know, but when I when I got to prison, I was expecting to go to like

a camp or like a low security prison. UM. When when the bus pulled up to lom Poke, Um, there's three prisons there. There's a camp which is basically you're not you don't even have a gate to hold you in. You don't have like a fense. You know, you can wander around. You know, it's pretty you know, it's pretty low key, like you can, you know, pretty much do what you want. Um. And then they have a low security that is, you know, has offense, but you know

it's really lacks. Then you got the USP, which is a maximum security where they send people with life and violent you know offensive. And when the bus stopped at the camp, you know, I heard the drivers say I got one person for the camp, the rest are going to the USP, and I'm like, that's gotta be me. You know, I'm not. It's a marijuana charge. You know, I've been never been to prison. You know, had a juvenile gun charge but it was expunged. So under the system,

I was treated as the first defenders. So you know, I'm getting up, like that's gotta be me. And then I look to the side of me and I see this square. You know, little young white kid that was talking about he was in there for, you know, like some kind of computer case that he got one year. And when I looked at him, like, shit, I'm dead, dude, that's here, that's his spot. He's getting out here, not me.

I got too much time, you know, because usually you gotta have under ten years to go to the camp. And you know, because I had a fifty five years sentence, I was considered a public safety risk. And with the camp you can walk off and leave if you want, you know, you just escape, you just walk home, you know. Um, and then they'll put out a warrant for you. So it's not really a big deal because the campers are

considered minimal risk. Um. And so you know, when I walked in the USP, it looked like everything you see in the movies. Um, it was a very dangerous prison. Um. It was. It was crazy. And I was like, ship all this for you know, nine hundred dollars worth the weed, Like it was just I can't believe this um, and I just have to do my best to adjust to it, you know, and and you know, put put my bury myself in law books so I could figure out, you know, how I got here and how I'm gonna get myself out.

And just the point of clarification, because I heard you mentioned that it was three hundred dollars worth a weed, and I heard you mentioned it was nine hundred? Was it three hundred times? You know, multiple times you gave him the three times? Okay, that's what it was. He got three worth on three occasions. Okay, got you? Okay, now I hear that, all right. So you ended up being released from prison due to a remarkable bipartisan effort.

Can you walk us through what that looked like? Because you were in there for quite a while before you were ever released. So what was that that time like? In the in between? So you know, I spent most of my time thinking I'm getting out that year. Um, you know, we had to prepare for him at Peal when I first went to prison. You know, I think I was in there for a year before our appeal. You know, I was ready for decision and we thought

we were winning. We had oral arguments, the appellate court was scolding the prosecutor, you know, telling him, you know, he's ridiculous for thinking the sentences just And more importantly, there was an illegal search and seizure where they used illegally seized evidence to convict me at trial. And that's with my best hope for coming home, because yeah, so they they entered one of my homes without a search warrant and they took all this evidence that made me

look like I was a gang member. And that's really what they wanted the jury to see me as like this violent gang member. And they used a lot of hip hop stuff they and actually wrapped lyrics at my trial. The prosecutor rapped lyrics in his closing argument, and he began his clothing argument rapping lyrics from a mac Dre song that I produced, and you know, suggesting to the jury that that's what this case is all about. And so, you know, they put up pictures of like the LBC

East Side like Snoop clothing and said this is gang attire. Um, you know, the LBC stuff East Siders. You know, all this stuff was um, you know, all hip hop gear, you know, And they put up pictures of like tupac and a vest and get the cent in the vest and was just like, you know, this man is dangerous. They would put those pictures up next to you know, other you know, like firearms and stuff like that to

make the jury, you know, fear fear me. And they did a good job because the first day at trial, one of the jurors expressed safety concerns to the judge and that's when I knew I was going to be hit at trial. Um. And so you know they you know, it was it was just a you know, it was a terrible, terrible trial. The government just went out of their way just to you know, win the case. They wanted to win at all cost um and so um. So yeah, so you know, back to back to the

prison setting. You know, I'm sitting there and I got this fifty five year sentence. I'm in a maximum security penitentiary. Um, and there's people around me that are killers. You know, people are getting stabbed. It's just a crazy prisons anything like you see in the movies. And you know I had to just you know, really bury myself in the books. We had, you know, my first appeal where the Court of Appeals appeared as though they were going to throw

out my conviction and give me a new trial. And when it came time for decision, you know, they flipped the script completely and actually took shots at my judge. So they really looked at this as like, we don't want judges doing what. No, but no, the no, the higher court, the higher court who we we appealed to the higher Court to try to get my trial overturned

so I can get a new trial. Because if I got a new trial, there's no way they can convict me, because now we know all the flaws in their case that they used to convict me on BS charges and so there was these enhancements that they made up at the last minute, and that's really what triggered the the long sentence. And so you know, we basically knew, you know, how flawed their case was. You know, their witnesses were lying,

the agents were lying, the prosecutors were hiding evidence. We found the evidence, and so a new trial there's no way they could win. I would go home after the trial be free. And so, um, you know, they did everything they could to paint me as this bad guy at the appellate court. Lets me go that you know, the streets are going to be unsafe now. Like it was just really a crazy, crazy kangaroo court. And so, you know, the judges appeared in the beginning they were

gonna throw out my conviction. When it came time for decision, they reverse course, and they took shots at my judge in the entire opinion, basically stating that he, um, he what he liked, he didn't take the case serious enough. He you know, he severely undermined the seriousness of my offense. Um, and just completely flipped the script from what they were talking about at the oral arguments and said that you know, they basically wanted to discipline my judge and tell them,

you know, like, don't do this. This is not how we get down his judges, and he he wouldn't listen to them. He kept speaking out testified before congress um and and other judges followed his uh, his suit. Other judges, you know, uh did what he did and started reaching out to the jury and started looking at these sentences and you know, to wondering if they're even just or not,

and find trying to find ways around them. And so so yeah, so I end up losing the first appeal and then we took it to the Supreme Court, which was denied in two thousand seven. And then you know that really the campaign for Clement became meaning meaning they didn't take the case up. That's what you're saying when you said it was then they almost did. Because in order to go to the Supreme Court, you gotta have four votes of the nine Supreme Court justices. Four justices

have to vote in favor of it. They three. They twice delayed my case had a vote I think three times.

The first two times they couldn't come to a decision, which is crazy because the Supreme Court only takes about eight cases out of like literally tens of thousands every year, and so there was you know, uh, some justices there that were obviously interested in my case, and so they kept delaying it, um, you know, delaying a decision, and finally they on the third vote, they didn't get four justices to vote in my favor and they didn't hear it. And so, um, you know, now now our focus needs

to be clemency with the president. And you know, my case was really framed for clemency because my judge's opinion, um, you know, really framed this um for for a clemency case. And so you know, we were just really waiting for Bush to get out of office, and you know, we made a run with him at the last you know, his last few months, which wasn't successful. UM. And then UM, you know, when Obama was elected, you know, I thought,

for sure, this is it, it's over with UM. But he didn't do anything for his first four years, first six years actually, and so you know I had to sit in there for all those years waiting for Obama to to take some action for his administration. And it was really frustrating that, you know, such a progressive administration

did nothing for the first fourth you know, five six years. UM. And then in two thousand and UM, I think it was two thousand and late two thousand thirteen, the very end of two thousand thirteen, I think it was December, he commuted eight sentences and launched a clemency program. That's when you know, it really heated up for us, and we had a you know, a letter that went to him that was signed by you know, hundreds of people from you know, the entertainment industry, you know, political figures.

And then my case became the poster child for a criminal Justice Reform bill that ran Paul or not Rand Paul Rand Paul. You know, he brought up my case before the Senate, but it was a bill that Mike Lee and Corey Booker were pushing. And and so five yeah, five senators, five U S. Senators were talking about my case during these Senate hearings. Um and even my prosecutor's boss, who who he left the US A Treaties Office, he

was the head prosecutor there. He actually testified before Mike Lee and said that my sentence was wrong and unjust. And so now I had the support of not only five senators, I have the support of my prosecutor's boss and my judge and you know, all these former you know, officials, and so you know, that's really when the campaign to get me out really heated up. Now It's interesting because I've been hearing how you you talked, you know about

something like folks that are really tough on crime. Republicans have always been really tough on crime, but really Republicans were a saving grace for you, if if I'm hearing it correctly, you've had bipartisan support with the former members of the d o J. And I'm a conservative too, So of course I'm gonna mention this kind of thing, right, So, he've had bipartisan members of the d o J who

were helpful. Senator Mike Lee, as I understand it, and you correct me if I'm wrong, as I understand that he was the person who put um your part and before Barack Obama in the White House, um for clemency, pardon, whatever. So so the Republicans have been helpful in his fighting in this journey for criminal criminal justice reform, especially for for you and others like you. Absolutely. So, you know, my judge was, you know, a Federalist Society judge, and

so he was one of the super conservative. He was so conservative that he fought for the to the for the Supreme Court to overturn miranda rights. He fought to get rid of the exclusionary rule that says if if agents violate your Fourth Amendment rights, that they can still use the evidence evidence against you. So if agents come in your house with no warrant and just start looking and find drugs, my judge thought they could still use

it against you. It didn't matter. And that's how conservative he was, and that's what made some conservatives listen to him and like, maybe we got this wrong. Maybe we are. And he made a real strong conservative case for criminal justice reform, and so a lot of people like Chuck Grass Lee and others, and Mike Lee especially. This is why Mike Lee got in criminal justice reform because of my judge and so, you know, and and being prosecuted

in such a conservative state. You know, the only people that could help me was Mike Lee and Oorn Hatch, and Oorn Hatch waited until after all these other people came out to help me before he opened his mouth. And so, um, really, Mike Lee, I credit him for for why I'm free right now and why I was

subsequently parted by President Trump. Um. And so you know, I gotta give a lot of credit to Mike Lee and the conservatives and you know, the Koch brothers obviously they joined Mike Lee's call um to you know, get me out of jail. And so you know, it was and there was other you know, it was bipartisan because

he had Corey Booker and and some entertainers. But you know, Mike Lee, I think is really what got me over the finish line, because Mike Lee made me the poster child for Reform and argued that I never should have gotten the sentence because yeah, there was a there was an incorrect interpretation under the law. Uh that that never should have you know, happened in my case because the

Supreme Court incorrectly interpreted the statue. And so the First Step at clarified that now prosecutors cannot seek and and and and get a fifty five year sentence for someone like myself. Ever, again, it's over with. And so you know, when I got out, you know, in in in two thousand sixteen, you know, we got a couple of people out under Obama's administration. When Trump was elected, we were like, okay, look, you know, it's gonna be four years before we get

anything done. And surprisingly we were invited to the White House UM for the prison reform summits, and so, you know, I developed a relationship with the Trump administration, UM with my friends Ron Smith, who was actually a part of the Coke network before that UM and then ultimately Vonka and so you know, me and Drew on worked on

started working on clemency. And so after we passed the First Step Act, you know, we shifted our attention to clemency, and you know, I started working with Jared's office and Ivanka Trump, and you know, we were able to get twelve people out of prison who were serving life for marijuana. UM. And so on Trump's last day, he commuted you know that what we we we submitted this letter with this list, UM,

and I hand delivered it. You know, I took I went to the White House many times, and you know, I handle evered this list and we had a letter that was signed by governors and prosecutors and NBA stars and you know, I had we had a list of individuals that had unjust cannabis sentences and on his last day, he granted twelve of them. And he also granted another case that actually UM, you know advocated. I brought Snoop into the folds, uh and you know, introduced him to

Ivanka Trump. And you know, we we got Harry oh Out, the co founder of death Row Records, and that was a case that you know, we worked with and you know, Alice Johnson was huge, you know, huge help on UM. And so you know, we got a lot done into the Trump administration. UM. And you know we're just trying to continue that, you know, on to this administration. And you know That's why I was part of you know, last December by President Trump, because of the work that

I had done on the First Step Act in in elsewhere. Yeah, I'm really happy to here all the work that you had been doing, and I've worked on the First Step Act two. I was on Capitol Hill lobbying the passage of that that particular bill. But the Trump administration, I think probably if they were to leave, when you think

about legacy, real and true legacy. One of the things I think that Donald Trump can certainly help hold his head up high and and say that he's proud is on the criminal justice reform efforts, because I think he, along with Mike Lee and others, had really opened the eyes of conservatives across the country as to what was really going on. You gotta have fairness when it comes to justice. It can't it can't just be you know, we're gonna throw the book at you. You gotta examine

every case with detail. And one of the things that I was so disappointed with with the Clinton administration is the fact that in this wasn't cannabis. Of course, this was the distinction between crack cocaine and cocaine, and the sentence and Commissions reports saying that there was a racial disparity and they didn't do anything about it. And we've seen that time and time again with a number of these,

as you mentioned, progressive administrations. Not now though, I mean they're letting everyone out, but certainly during that during that area when we're talking about West Fair, was just and what they and they seemingly didn't really move on those issues. But Donald Trump did. Do you maintain a relationship with the former president to this day? Um, not him, but I still have contact with Ivanka um here and there. UM. And you know, just the fact that you know, him

and Snoop have this crazy beef um. You know, and we were able to sort of you know, squash that UM. And we were able to get that sort of squash you know, uh, and and get some work them you know before they left. Um. You know, I thought was was pretty was was pretty amazing and so UM. So yeah, you know, we we got a lot done in the administration, and you know, the first step back has resulted in you know, the release of sixteen thousand people. Yeah, I know,

that was crazy. So yeah, I think it was one of the biggest reforms, you know since nineteen seventy really, um, if you look at at all the different mandatory minimums that were reformed, Um, you know, I think it was you know, the biggest uh, you know reform since then. And you know, we've got to keep going. And you know, we're trying to get some work done under this administration. And you know, I know it's it's starting off a little slow, um, but you know we're hoping to continue going.

And recently we launched the Cannabis Freedom Alliance with um, the cokes Um and Snoop and you know, making it bipartisan in order to get more Republicans right. And I want to ask you about that in in a in a moment, because that that's a huge deal and that's one in which you definitely should be congratulated on getting the attention to Charles Coke. We're talking to Weldon. Angelo's the new face of criminal justice reforms. We've got much

more with him right after a quick break. Since being released, you have become one of the made your faces of course of criminal justice reforms. What are your your goals for changing the system right now? Right now? I think you know, I mean, one of my biggest efforts is ending this hypocrisy of allowing large corporations and mostly older, you know, white entrepreneurs, you know, allowing them to make millions while keeping um, you know, people incarcerated for doing

the same thing, and predominantly people of color. It's it's a crazy hypocrisy. You know, I know someone that's serving sixty years for a marijuana fense um while you know, these corporations are allowed to make millions for doing the same thing, and they're both violating federal statutes. You know, it's still illegal. Even though the states have passed you know, different laws, it's still illegal federally, and they're not charging them.

They're picking and choose and you know the winners and wansers, and you know, it's just wrong. And so I think, you know, we need to end the federal ban and let the states decide and that way people can vote with their feet um. And you know, the federal prison system is is filled up with you know, thousands of people you know in there for you know, non violent cannabis charges while their way seen you know, the state

after state legalized. And so you know, that was my whole purpose for you know, starting that alliance, because we need to we need to pass federal legislation that de schedules marijuana on the federal level. UM. And and as far as other criminal justice you know, where we're trying to get past, you know, various different criminal justice bills because there's still a lot of work to be done. We have to make the changes in the first step

back retroactive UM. And that's something that you know, Mike leaves a big champion on the statute that gave me fifty five years is not retroactive. The people that you know, there's people still in there serving you know, longer sentences than I had for the same type of conduct because that was not retroactive. And so you know, we couldn't get it done at the time because of Tom Cotton and Ted Cruz, you know who flip flopped on the issue.

And so you know, now you know, we we have a bill that that made that a committee and you know, we got to try to get that passed through the Senate. Now, Uh, Switching gears a little bit. Charles Cope, the billionaire libertarian, was spent a fortune on political causes. He's now actively funding efforts to the tune of twenty five million dollars

to in federal marijuana prohibition. Now, I know you're a big part of the reason, at least from what I've read, you're a good part of the reason why his Odds was open to this, and you reached out to Charles Coke and asked them if you would partner with you in terms of having fairness in the in the system here, especially when what marijuana his view to decriminalize it. Uh, what is that relationship like and why did you choose to reach out to him that that's a very interesting

person to reach out to. Yeah. So, um, you know, when I had gotten out of jail, we had we had a south By Southwest event and I connected h Charles Coke and his team was Snoop trying to get more work done. You know, we just had a Republican president take office, and you know, we needed to try to work together to get things done. And interestingly is that was the week that the Snoop and Trump be

freely kicked off. And so it made it kind of hard because you know, uh, what's the Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz were telling the Coke don't do the event

with Snoop because he just made that video. You know, about Trump, and so it was really hard, you know, but we we still did the event, and you know, we started, you know, I'm trying to bring my entertainment friends over you know, to d C and and and meet with you know, political figures, even take him to the Trump White House so we can really get some

reform done. And so, you know, Snoop in the in the Coke started, you know, working together because of you know, my introduction, and um, we had a zoom call last August. I had just gotten Loon out from bad Boy Records p did. He's rapper and so we wanted him to come on this event. And I had a Snoop, Snoop come on. Huh yeah, lou was We had a fourteen years sentence, um and so and and you know he and when I got out, a lot of hip hop industry reached out to me for help, you know, Harry, oh,

you know death Row because of my connection there. Um, you know that was a Snoop's request. And then you know a Loon from bad Boy um Rollo who's an Atlanta rapper, working to get him out with Drake, working with Drake and others to get him out. Um and tayd Alla Signs brother and so a lot of people in hip hop reached out to me for help, and so we you know, I spent about eighteen months trying

to get Loon out, um. And you know, I took his case to the White House and they were this close to granting his clemency and then the riots and he was in there for just a non violent drug fans.

He made an introduction to two people who went on to do you know, some drug deals, and he got caught up in the conspiracy law and so he had a fourteen year sentence, and you know, we were very close to getting him clemency and then you know that's when everything really kicked off and with the pandemic and everything else, um, and so they had to shift their attention away from criminal justice, and so I used the first step back to get him out to the court system.

And so when we got him out, um, you know, we had this event with the Coats and you know, I invited Snoop on and me and Charles and Snoop had a one on one on this zoom private zoom call. And you know, this is like you know, when you know something you know and the idea my head based on something Charles said about the need to you know,

end the war on on cannabis. You know, the light bulb my head went off, like why don't I reach out to them because I'm in the middle of trying to you know, end prohibition, and so I reached out

to his team. Um. Actually, we're at the Hill America tour um UH in Atlanta last year, and you know that was had the cokes there, had Doug Decent, a good friend of mine, um, and you know, that's when I brought it up to him for the first time, like, you know, we'd like to get your help in this, and you know, they were honestly like, you know, we had never considered getting into this issue or you know, supporting the more active you know, something we've never considered.

You know, let us think about it. And you know it took some months, you know, and then you know, I think some time in like February, they said yes, let's do it, um, and then we were happy, you know, because Charles has a lot of influence over Republicans, and then by coming out publicly in favor of legalization, it gives other Republicans cover to say, you know, what. I agree with this because we we speak to a lot

of Republicans that are like, you know, prohibition stupid. I just don't know that I'm ready to come out publicly and say I support it. Um. Now it's easier, you know, because you know, we got different you know, Republicans like Charles, like you know, um, you know, Mike Lee and others that are saying, you know, states should have the right to do what they want with regard to their drug laws. And so, um, Charles is a perfect ally. I mean, you know, they his his team spends you know, millions

every election cycle. I said, I felt like, you know with that, um, you know that some of these repub lawmakers are going to listen to him. Yeah. And and of course, uh Mr Coke has been one who's been responsible for a number of Republican wins and at one time and probably still now is the biggest funder of

Republican causes in candidates. So to say that you reached out to him, I think is a And he answered as a huge, huge deal you and certainly your your work with Snoop Dogg bringing them along for the ride. On a cultural standpoint, that to have these kind of conversations are really important. But let me ask you this question. Out of all the things you've experienced thirteen years in jail, the entire experience. Now you're a figure that's really well

known in criminal justice. You're working with billionaires, you're working with celebrities to help other people get out of jail. Donald Trump was the was the help and to push that along. Let me ask you this very important question. At all of that and all these experiences that you that you had, do you regret selling though that marijuana those three times? Do you regret it? No? I mean I don't regret it, um from that perspective. I regret it from you know, losing my career, and you know,

regret it from you know, taking that that that risk. Um, I don't regret it. I don't think anything's wrong with with cannabis. Um. You know, it never should have been illegal in the first place, and it definitely should have never triggered aft year sentence. But at the end of the day, so much good has come out of you know that my case. You know, we we we were able to change federal law. We're able to do so much with regard to that. Um So UM, I don't

regret it like I regret it from the perspective. I regret it from the perspective that you know, doing that ruined you know, my career. You know, I my son's lost, you know, thirteen years of their life with me, and you know, had to live in poverty because of it.

So I definitely regret it from that perspective. But now you have uh an alliance that you you've you've created, and can you tell us about your organization that you're you're doing now in terms of changing the law, working with the Cokes and certainly your organization to change the

law across the country federally in state by state as well. Yeah. So, you know, after we passed the First Step Act, I wanted to shift my attention to you know, cannabi's justice, and so we launched the Weldon Project, which is a five one C three, And then we launched an initiative called Project Mission Grain and it's a clemency initiative, but really our goal is to end incarceration for marijuana events is especially on the federal level um and then shifting

to the states. And so we launched that and we've really been trying to engage people with influence, especially in the hip hop community, to get involved. And you know

that's something we've been very successful at. We just launched a campaign with the rapper Russ Um and UM and we when we were working with Drake on getting um, you know, the the Biden administration to launch a cannabis clemency program UM and so, you know, really we're trying to unite you know, the entertainment industries, whether it's athletes, um, you know, whether it's people in hip hop and bringing them to the table with other like minded people, you know,

such as even conservatives, you know, Republicans, trying to you know, keep that unlikely allies coalition alive so we can keep making progress. Well, thank you so much for spending time with me today to talk about your case. I certainly read about it many years ago, and Senator Mike Lee

was the person that was pushing it. He was also the person who wrote op ed, a pretty profound op ed when the first step back was uh really being debated and talked about, and it was a response to Senator Tim Cotton, his colleague, who was also a Republican, and him being having been a federal prosecutor, he was able to lay it out in a way that was understood from a legal perspective and wasn't necessarily political, but just the right thing to do. And I think I can,

I can absolutely appreciate that. I don't UH me personally. I think that the law has to change. I think it should change, especially with all the things that are going state by state, and Republicans I believe UH should be very open to having those kind of conversations as they had with your case. So thank you for spending his time with me. And before we let you go, is there anything you've got coming up? Any big projects that the folks at home should know about before you go?

And where should people go to follow your work? Yeah? Absolutely so anyone you know wanting to you know, get involved or just you know, check out what we're doing, they can go to the welcome project dot org um and you know, sign up for a newsletter where they can follow us on Instagram at Project Mission Green. And yeah,

we have a number of you know, interesting projects coming up. UM. You know, we're about to launch a Proclamation for Justice UM that includes a very bipartisan group of people from you know, across the entertainment UM and you know, the

political both political aisles UM. You know, we have Republicans, Democrats, independents, UM, and you know entertainers you know, from various backgrounds that are you know, signed on to this Proclamation for Justice, that is, you know, urging President Biden to you know, do not only what he said he's gonna do, UM, because he promised, you know, on the campaign trail that he was going to decriminalize cannabis and that he was going to you know, expende records of everyone with cannabis

uh felonies. And so you know, we we we're gonna keep them to that promise, and we're gonna tinue, you know, keep from pressure on him to do something about it as soon as possible. UM. And then UM, you know, we need to change it on the federal level as well, which is why you know, we launched the Cannabis Scree, Tomorian. And here we are talking about non violent and I think that's a key question for folks at home, non

violent offenses, uh with regards to cannabis. So I appreciate your time, thank you for coming on, and certainly wishing you well as you move forward in your alliance and and keeping these good folks like Ivanka Trump and everybody else uh together on this issue as we hopefully see real justice happen. Absolutely, thanks for having me on I want to think Well had the most Again for a

fascinating interview. If you're enjoying the show, please leave us a review and rate us with five stars on Apple Podcast. If you have any questions for me, please email me at out loud at Gingeris Street sixte dot com and I'll try to answer them in our future episodes, and please sign up for my monthly newsletter at Gingeris Street six dot com slash out loud. You can also find me on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and parlor at Giano Caldlow.

And if you're interested in learning more about my story, please pick up a copy of my best selling book title Taken for Granted, How Conservatism Can Win back the Americans their Liberalism Failed. Special thanks to our producer John Cassio, researcher Aaron Klingman, and executive producers Debbie Myers and of course speaker New Gingridge, all part of the Gingerish three sixty network