Episode 29: Conservatives Have a Choice: Fight or Fold, with Tomi Lahren

of the biggest media personalities out there. A conservative political commentator. Tommy is a hosted Fox Nation and you can see your frequently giving her insights on Fox News. Before Fox, she worked at the Blaze and One American news network. Tommy is also the author of the book Never Played Dead, How the Truth Makes You Unstoppable. Today, Tommy and I discussed gun control, the rise of conservative media, cancel culture, sugar daddies in relationships, abortion, race, and so much more.

Let's go how are you? Tommy? Great? And We've been wanting to do this for a while, so I'm glad that we got to finally officially worked together. And I always wanted to be on Fox l A with you with Elex Michaelson, and that did not happen because I fled California. But someday we're going to go back and give Elex a hard time, right, And to be honest with you, you weren't the only one that fled. I

left two months into the pandemic. So in May I moved to Miami, and I think most of the people that really could get out left, And it's sincerely a joke in California right now is unfortunate. Oh what absolutely is. But hey, Miami's Miami is getting a little while too, so you know, never a dull moment in this country. In all the spring Breakers are coming to to Miami on South Beach and working through life. So that's it was a weird scene. But hey, at least someone's having fun,

I guess. So I want to begin with something that recently had opened tragedy. I'm talking about Boulder, Colorado, where ten people were recently murdered in a mass shooting. In response to the shooting, President Biden called for tougher gun control, triggering debate on Capitol Hill. Democrats, as they typically do, are now moving on legislation that would be in part expand background checks to nearly all gun sales, and we seem to go through this process with each shooting that

we see, these national incidents. What are your thoughts on the shooting and Boulder and the left latest gun control push. Well, we know that the left never lets a tragedy go to waste. But you know, as this was all unfolding and the facts were coming out, there were so many on the left and so many in the mainstream media who incorrectly labeled a shooter as a white male, and some even labeling him as a white supremacist with really

no facts to back that up. But as soon as it was revealed that he was in fact not a white male, or a white supremacist or a Trump supporter, then of course it quickly shifted to the firearm and the weapon that he used, and that is where the narrative goes. But you know, I know that we talk about common sense reform, and that's a buzz where the Democrats like to use often, and they like to throw things like red flag laws and background checks and say,

how could anybody be against that? Shouldn't we know who's getting what and whose firearm and what they have? Well, a couple of things on that number one, shall not be infringed, means shall not be infringed. And when you start stacking up these infringements, it's really just chipping away at our Second Amendment rights. So if anybody thinks that they're gonna end at increased background checks, they haven't been

watching the Democrats for the last twenty plus years. And furthermore, let's talk about that we need to have increased background checks for for law abiding Americans, but we don't have to have background checks or accountability for the hundreds of thousands of illegals invading our borders right now. I mean, Democrats, if you want to talk about safety and security, you can't just pick and choose which safety and security you want to root for. At the end of the day, though,

it's all agenda driven, so it doesn't surprise me. But I just hope the American people understand what's going on and they wake up and when they hear buzz where it's like common sense gun reform, they should know it's a lot of b s. Yeah, And being an individual from the city of Chicago and seeing how comprehensive the gun control laws there has been, but yet you'll see

thirty people shining a weekend. You wonder what is the point at this particular juncture, especially when you look at just what was going on in Boulder where assault weapons were banned. Um, they had all these laws on the books, but yet and still many people died. So do you think any common sense will come out of this when it comes to the Democrats? Absolutely not, because the Democrats know that they are in complete power and control. And

of course the Senate is a toss up. We know this, and we're all hoping for a little bit of moderation there. But what I'm truly concerned about, and what Biden even said after the tragedy, is that, you know, he doesn't really have to wait to start enacting the reforms that he wants. This has been a president who has been largely lost, who has been a puppet for the left. But what really concerns me and a lot of the actions that he's taken has been through executive order action

or FIAT. And so that is where my biggest concern comes from. And you know, talking about President Biden, I don't even look at President Biden as the real threat here. It's who's controlling him. Who is his puppeteer. That's what truly concerns me. And as we've seen with the Democrats, every socialist or far left agenda item that they wanted to implement for the last several years they're pushing through in the first few months that they've had this control

and power. So when you look at the next three and a half years, that is caused for concern. Do you think that we're actually gonna see something happen in terms of this gun reformed legislation, because it seems as though Democrats have been unafraid to just throw whatever up against the wall and try to get everything they want to particularly you look at the COVID relief, you look at the tax hikes that they're looking to push through

here soon. And they do have the majority in the House, and certainly it is a toss up in the Senate. But if they get rid of the filibus, there no need for sixty votes, let's just go in and do it, is they would. Do you think that's going to happen? Oh? I think it absolutely is. I think everything that you're seeing is just prepping and preparing for that, and what they're not able to ramrod through They're going to find

other creative avenues with which to do it. And another thing I hope people understand and pay attention to is that HR one the voting rights that they talk about the for the people, which could is really anything. But that's another cause for concern. And I think the Democrats are going to do whatever they can pass whatever they want. Is going to be like Obamacare two point oh three

point oh four point oh. But what really concerns me, Just like they did with the so called COVID relief and as we know that less than ten percent of that was actually COVID relief in that nearly two trillion

dollars spending bill, taxpayer funded. They pass these things off as COVID relief or consense gun reform, and a lot of the American people who watch mainstream media, they fall for it, they believe it, and then a lot of these representatives and senators they feel comfortable going along with it, even if they are more moderate, because it's passed off as something that it's truly not, so they can get

away with it. So at the end of the day, it comes back to informing Americans, making sure that people understand what's going on. And don't fall for the buzzwords because they're gonna do everything they can. It's time for us to get smarter and make them fear for their reelection. Well, I think we're already at that point in terms of

them fearing for their re election. And I think that's part of the reason why Nancy Pelosi and others are trying to shift as much through as possible at this particular juncture, because they understand that the Houses is gonna change in two I don't I don't think there's any question about that. And what we've been seeing out of the Joe Biden administration. Even the people who don't like Donald Trump, they don't like his rhetoric, they don't like

the Twitter stuff. Those folks are gonna see a change in their taxes and how much they're paying in the economics that we see gas prices, et cetera. So there's a strong change. Republicans are going to take back the House, then the Senate, and the White House is going to be very much in place. This this, in my view, seems to be a real play to get as much do as they possibly can because they know they're going

to lose. Well, wouldn't have been nice if that would have happened in the first couple of years of the Trump administration, especially with regards to the border, if Republicans could have joined together and made some real changes. Too bad, we don't work that way. I was another one of my big frustrations. And again always worry about the rhinos, and we can talk about that at another time. But yeah, no,

I do think that they're they're fearful. I think that they know that the American people are not going to be happy with what they're doing. But like I said, this is why what concerns me is changes that they make in voting. You know, it's one thing to say that the American people will vote them out. It's another thing if they make it dang near impossible. And I know that that's become a forbidden term and forbidden word to talk about voter fraud or election integrity, but it's

something that needs to be discussed. And I know that they like to use what happened with the insurrection on January six to silence and shut people up from talking about the important issue of voter fraud and election integrity. But we need to be talking about it because what they can't get through with their with their elections or with their popularity. They'll get through with changing voting laws, changing districting, and they'll do it that way. So that's

my real concern here. Yeah, we we did see that in the last election, and I'm sure that Nancy Pelosi felt it was a strong success. So why not continue in other ways and from a federal mandate. So you're a thousand percent right. But here's the real issue, Tommy. We got a lot of Republicans in office who seemingly don't stand up or speak forcefully on these issues. It seems as though a lot of members in the GOP are week why is that Trump was the only one

who spoke forcefully on these issues? And and honestly, Democrats have been running over Republicans for quite a while just in terms of beating the media narrative, being forceful in their language, and trying to take things over. Shouldn't we be doing that as well? We absolutely should, And of course we're always going to behave differently than the left and the Democrats, and I think it's a standard we hold ourselves to and when we should continue. Whoever, we

don't stit together. And there are still so many Republicans out there in elected positions who still have a lot of bit earnest towards Donald Trump and what he was able to do. You know, they asked me before, and they've asked me so many times since, what do you think about Trump four? And I'm all for it, if not Trump de Santist or another great America First Conservative. But they say, you know, there's a divide, there's a split in the Republican Party. And I tell folks, there

is no split, and there is no divide. Make no mistake. This is still Donald Trump's party, whether they like to think so in the DC Beltway or not. In the real world, in real America, this is still very much Donald Trump's party. And I think that that makes them rather jaded and bitter sometimes in d C. And they feel like they need to fight back against that. They feel like they need to get back the GOP establishment, the good old boys club, and they don't like the

fact that America First really took over this movement. And so I think that's why you see a lot of them in their rhino tendencies coming out now, especially when they don't have Donald Trump in the White House. Right after the breaks. Can you ask you about this because you you mentioned the bides us with some of these members of the Republican Party. Now, is it fair for folks to maybe not speak is nicely about the former president considering he does go after people fairly harshly and

he continues to poke his finger in there. And I'm talking about members of the GOP here, not the Democrats. I'm all for that, but with some members of the GOP. I'm not talking necessarily your Rhino, but anyone that he goes after, and they tend to hold these grudges forever and seemingly you think about mid Romney or John McCain or whoever else. He did go after some of these folks in very personal terms. So is it fair for

them to hold a grudge. You know, anybody can hold a personal grudge, and anyone can feel wronged by anyone, and everyone's feelings are valid. But what they have to understand, and when I think that they've forgotten, both on the left and the right, at least when it comes to the swamp on both the left and the right, is that they are not representative representative of themselves. They represent constituents. So if they can be bitter all day long. They

can be mad. They can go back and forth and attack Donald Trump and get into the pettiness if they want. But what they need to understand is Donald Trump's policies worked for their constituents. So when they sit there bitter and they want to go back at him and they want to talk about his rhetoric or his tweets or the kind of person he is or his character, at the end of the day, the American people care about the policies that made their lives better. And those policies

were policies under Donald J. Trump. So for now, these Republicans not to go and fight for those policies, whether they're under Trump or anybody else. That is where the true frustration comes in. They forget who they work for. They do not work for themselves, They do not work for each other. They work for us, And I agree

it should be what the people want. Is It's just like when the impeachment votes came down this last go around and you saw I don't remember how many was it four or five Republicans in the House they voted for impeachment. I don't remember what the number was. But the question is that your constituents want the president um impeached and that that's a real league great points, So thank you for mentioning that absolutely agree with that. Let's move on to the media. And I know that we've

both been in media for a long time. I remember when I used to come on your show. Now things have changed since we both got in media many years ago. Well it feels like many years. We're still very young. It seems as though the media was a little more credible back then, and things have certainly changed since, and now they have the lowest approval rating I think of both political parties and Congress. What do you think we

really stand with media? Will there be any change, any accountability for the Democratic Party, any accountability for the Biden administration? What the hell is going on? Well, you know, this is really nothing new. We saw them caudle Barack Obama for eight years plus, So I don't think it's any shock to you to most that the mainstream media leans to the left and now is increasingly leaning to the left. It's not like this is a new phenomenon of poor

trumped arrangement. Center certainly took its effect and pushed them further to the left and made their biases a little bit more clear to the general public. But I think the real thing here, and the thing that concerns me most is not just the lack of accountability that the media has of themselves and of this Biden administration, but

also this this cancel culture. And we talk about it a lot, and a lot of times we talk about it in abstract terms as just you know, canceling the my pillow guy, or canceling Mr Potato Head or Dr Seuss,

But this is bigger than that. The media, the reason that they feel so comfortable being so far to the left and preaching the things that they preach and being so one sided, is because those on the right or even those in the middle, are so fearful of cancel culture that they're almost afraid to question anybody and anything

because everyone is so headshy on the right. So I think that's why the media has this this teflon feeling that they have that they're invincible and untouchable because everyone else is so afraid to say anything, and our First Amendment rights really are being chipped away, whether it's on the big platforms or on college campuses or where have you. That is why this media has run so rampant and it's getting so much worse. Everyone else is so afraid

to stand up and say anything that's true. But how do we how do we as conservatives combat that? I think back to the Hunter Biden story with the New York Posts. Obviously was censored by Twitter, but a lot of these news organizations simply didn't report on it. So when Trump had that second debate, with the first debate, he mentioned the Hunter Biden story and people didn't know what he was talking about. Is that? What do you you know? What? Did this weird ten percent for the

big guy? No one heard of it except for those who watch Fox News and some of these other conservative networks or look at conservative blocks. Is there anything we can do to penetrate those spaces? Well? Absolutely, I think there's always more to innovation and more to creating a platform,

you know. And it was announced that Donald Trump may come out with his own social media platform, which is great, and it is frustrating because every time conservatives or independence do try to come up with a platform such as Parlor, the left still finds a way to shut it down and take it off the app store. So we're gonna

have to continue to be innovative. But when we talk about what conservatives can do to battle cancel culture in general, because I get this question a lot because people wonder, well, hey, yeah, we all hate cancel culture, but what do we really do about it? Well, I'll tell you a story. My boyfriend's family. They're doing in person virtual learning, and the

family is big Trump supporters. So in the back of a twelve year old zoom class, he has a a cutout of Donald Trump, and the teacher said, hey, you need to put that down. It's offensive. You know you're gonna get kicked out if if you don't put that down. So, of course, being a twelve year old and having his teacher instruct him to do that, he goes and takes away the cardboard cut out of Donald Trump and just

lays down and plays dead. And when his mom found out about it, of course she was hopping mad, thinking, in my own house, I can't have a poster of Donald Trump or a cut out of Donald Trump. But at the end of the day, it was am I going to go in and say somebody of the teachers and my kid is gonna suffer be because of it? I don't want to be that parent that does that to my kid. Well, here in lies the problem. There are probably so many other parents that share that same sentiment,

but everybody feels like they're alone on the right. You live in You lived in California. I lived in California. We know how that is. So many secret conservatives, so many conservatives in everyday life that are not in the media, not in the public eye, but choose to be quiet

to save their own skin. But what if we all came together and we found support within one another, and we said we're gonna refuse to be canceled because we're gonna show not only big tech, we're gonna show these companies, these institutions, these administrations, these college campuses, that we are not alone. It's not one lone conservative battling the mob. It's a lot of us. Imagine if we could do that,

what kind of change we could make. But it's gonna take people being a little bit more brave and a little bit more bold and willing to stick their neck out there and put themselves on the line to do it. But if enough of us are willing to do it, we can make some big changes and this won't happen anymore. Yeah, I think that it's tough for a lot of people.

You're right about California, the secret Conservatives. And I've had a lot of people walk up to me in l a and say, hey, I watch you on Fox News and I look like, wow, you watch because it's surprising, especially Black Americans, and it happens to me, and I'm like, wow, seriously, you watch Fox and it's it's surprising. It's incredibly surprising, and people don't want to put themselves out there like that because once you get canceled, that's it for a

lot of people. I remember growing up on the South Side of Chicago and what they used to say about Republicans is if you anyone's a Republican conservative, whatever the case, they're completely in totally racist. Now it's a little bit different. It's, oh, well, maybe you're not a racist if you hate Donald Trump, but if you're a Trump supporter, then you're absolutely a racist.

They've changed the narrative, and it seems to be sticking with a lot of people that they don't want to stick their necks out there, especially if they're not in the public sphere. And just imagine how bad things got after seen where it was, Oh, you're a Trump supporter, I hate you, unfollowed, unfriend, I don't want to talk to you anymore. And it's just it's kind of a

matter of insanity. What happened to us just having different political views, of different views on issues, but still being friends and having a good time, go to the bar and have a drink. What happened to that, Tommy, Oh, it's very unfortunate. And you know that's happened to me

a number of times as well. Not really so much with me, because everyone knows where I stand, but just people that are friends with me, that have other friends that no longer talk to them because they're with me, or people that owned businesses, and of course it's trying to boycott their business because they're seen with me or they're friends with me. And I'm sure you've had the

same thing happened to you. But again, I go back to this, the reason that it is so unbalanced, and the reason that it tilts so far to the left and they have so much power, it is our own fault.

We used to have a time where you could be a Republican or maybe even a Trump supporter, and you could still exist as a Republican and be proud of being that, and we could have different views and have friends on the left, have friends in the middle, and we could maybe talk about politics, maybe leave politics and

religion out of it. We could do that. But then it got to this point where the left started getting more and more angry out for blood because Donald Trump won that election and they did not think he was gonna win. And so what did they do. They came for us, and they came for us hard. And what did we do? Well, Unfortunately, a lot of conservatives back down, and we said, you're right, you're right. I'm sorry, I'm sorry for my beliefs. Let me apologize for my beliefs.

Please just be my friend, Please just hire me, Please just let me in this group. We did it to ourselves. Why are we so weak? The left is not weak. They are not. They might look weak, but they're not. They banded together. There There are few liberals who are ever going to be apologetic about their views or worry about offending somebody. They go into every room and every situation thinking everyone in there is a liberal and I know you know it because it happens all the time.

They think everyone around them as a liberal. They don't care who they offend. But at the end of the day, so many conservatives are so scared. Why are we like that? We're talking with Tommy wearing more with her right after the Great the culture is controlling so much today. How con conservative media or conservatives gained a greater influence in the culture. And you've done that successfully. You've been talked about on the Breakfast Club. People talk about you all over.

You have friends that aren't all all Republicans. You have some who are very influential Democrats, people of all celebrities, all kind of folks. Uh, either they hate you, or they love you, or they want to spend time with you just to get to know you. Well, I found two and I'm sure that you've experienced the same thing. Is that people come into a conversation with me wanting to hate me. For example, like a Trevor Noah or

Charlemagne or a Chelsea Handler. They want to go into situations with me hating me because they don't align with my views. But if they just spend a little bit of time with me one on one, they hate the fact that they actually might kind of like me, or at least they find me tolerable as a human being,

and I find that that changes things. I mean, it was about a about four years ago to this date that I was on the View and Joy behar though obviously she went after me and did not like me for my beliefs, she came up to me afterwards and was shocked that she enjoyed being around me, And it was almost like she had this revelation that she wanted to hate me so badly but she couldn't. And so I think it's up to us too to show our personalities more. Conservatives need to do that. We need to

do a better job of that. Where some of us are really good at being on media or being on platforms and being you know, hard asses, are being aggressive and taken the fight to the left, and that's all great. We need to continue doing that, but there's also a part of it where we can show that we're real human beings. We have fun just like anybody else. We

enjoy the same things that liberals enjoy. We're all people, but conservatives have for too long been afraid to show that side of themselves because we feel like we need to hold ourselves into some kind of a a square and we need to be so prudish. We don't need to be that way. I think that we could build a lot of barriers if we were just ourselves. I think you and I do that pretty well, but I

would encourage more conservatives to do just that. But it just comes with once you do it more and you have difficult conversations and you stop apologizing for your beliefs, it becomes a habit, and then it becomes known that that's who you are and about you, and know that people know that they're not going to change your mind or shame you, and then the conversation seems to change

a little bit. Mm hmm. Yeah. So it's it's it's all about getting out there and that's that's a one of the points that you just made which really resonated with me in terms of being yourself. And when I joined the GOP over well over a decade ago, it was the vibe that I got was if you're not conservative on every issue, you can't be a real conservative, you can't be a real Republican. Things changed after Trump got in because if you know, he wasn't an ideologue.

He he had some views that different from the party, but from a standard he was all there, and he accomplished a lot of great things, especially from an economic standpoint, that was excellent, one of the things we can really really appreciate. So how would you, because you've said famously and publicly that some of your you hold some socially liberal views despite being a conservative, how would you describe

your political philosophy or ideology. Sure, and there are so many conservatives that do stuck up that way, especially young conservative women. And I've had so many that said, hey, you know, I always thought I was a liberal because I am either pro choice or I'm pro LGBT. So I thought I was a liberal. But that's the only

two liberal positions that I have. Everything else, I'm conservative on the things that quite honestly truly matter in terms of the way that the country is safe and secure, taxes, economics, businesses, prosperity, education, all those things they stacked up conservatively. But those two issues, abortion and same sex marriage. They said, well, you know, I think I'm a liberal because I I'm okay with those things. No, you're not a liberal. You are socially

more liberal on a couple of those things. That doesn't make you a liberal. And you know, vice versa. But the problem is for conservatives is we exclude people. Sometimes we say, hey, you know, if you don't fit the mold completely and entirely, then you're not a quote real conservative.

That's been levied against me many times because I've said I'm pro choice and because I believe in limited government, and then people also on the conservative side, which I find so frustrating, is that they want to back you into a corner and then now they want to label me as pro abortion. Excuse me. I never said it was pro abortion. I said I'm pro choice because I

believe in limited government. There's a big difference there. We need to understand that people exist on a spectrum and it doesn't mean that they can't be in the club. It doesn't mean that they're not good conservatives. It means we're expanding the tent. So that's something conservatives need to do better with, and we need to not be afraid to upset our conservative friends as well. There's room for all of us here. We've got varying points of view, and you know, you and I probably disagree on a

few things too. Were both great conservatives. I'm very hard on prison and criminal justice reform. I'm very much a law and order type girl, so a lot of the first step back stuff I was very vocally against. A lot of conservatives were for it. A lot of conservatives were for it, but hey, and Donald Trump obviously was for it. Not something that I really rode with. But that's all right, Let's have discussion and conversation. That's what

makes us better. Yeah, I agree, we should definitely be having those conversations that I remember, Uh, some of the things we were tweeting and I was responding to your tweets. I remember the criminal justice conversation, and I appreciate that. Uh. Now, I want to go back to a point you made. You say that you're your pro choice not pro abortion. What does that really really mean? Well, that means, hey, listen, this is a sticky issue and it's a complicated one.

I don't think that government should be used to solve problems that government can't solve, so and this is obviously a touchy such there's so many folks out there was such strong opinions on this. I don't like abortion. I don't believe in abortion. I don't believe that that is a method of birth control. However, when the government comes in and cracks down, especially a couple of years ago when it was even in the case of rape or incest,

too far, too far. Understand that someone that's in that position, for for the majority of people in that position that are considering abortion, they're in the lowest place of their life. They are struggling. And do I think that the government coming in and saying you can't do this is going to solve that problem for them, or is going to make them make good choices or make them make the right choice. No, I don't think that's government's place now.

I believe that the church, the family, the community, that's when they step in and say, hey, listen, choose life. And those are great conversations to have make people feel accepted. But another thing that bothers me about some conservatives, and especially some faith based conservatives, is that they judge people being in that position, but then they judge people for

trying to get out of that position. You can't do both either going to wrap your arms around somebody and encourage them to choose life or you're or you're not. But you can't shame them on both ends of the aisle and expect expect the results that you want, so, I just want us to have an honest, open conversation about issues that are really difficult without having to say, oh, nope, get out, you're not a conservative. These are difficult issues.

A lot of people struggle with those issues, and that's a conversation that needs to be wide open and more discussion needs to be had. It's not just pro abortion or pro life. There's a lot of gray area there that needs to be discussed, and you sound very passionate about it. I'm I'm curious. Have you ever talked someone out of having an abortion? Have you ever been in

a situation yourself? No? I haven't, But to me, it's just the frustration of it, because I don't like when people are judgmental of others that are in difficult positions. And I will tell you I haven't had that personal experience. But I'll tell you this. I have a good friend who is in Dallas and she is a detective. She works on times against children. So she's told me, and we've had this discussion many times, that she goes into households that have dealt with incessant and nine ten year

old girls pregnant. What do you do in that situation. When you've seen it and you've been around it, it's a little different. The conversation becomes a little bit more fuzzy. So I don't like judgmental. I like people that work towards great solutions and work towards the outcomes that are going to be best for everybody, and I believe that that is life. But to judge somebody at their lowest moment and say that government's going to solve the problem,

I just don't believe in that. You really sound very passionate about this, and it's it's have you felt judged? And obviously people have judged you. You millions of views on this, that and the other. You're very very famous in this space, and generally did did it hit a chord? As you think about these issues, especially around abortion, people being judged and being at the lowest points of their lives at that moment, it sounds like a very emotional

experience for you, like almost like your voices cry. And it may not be, but that's what I'm here, and I feel the real connection to the subject matter. Well, it is because I lost my job over it. So that's that's a big one for me. I mean, I went through after saying what I said on the View, going through getting fired from the Blaze and having a six month lawsuit that nearly bankrupt me. So it's it's a touchy subject for me, but it's one where I

stood up for what I believe in. I do think that there are some issues though, and and not just the abortion issue, but issues that conservatives sometimes can lack compassion on, and the left is very good at it.

You know, we don't lead with feelings. We lead with facts, and I'm not saying we should change that, but there are times when we can feel compassion for people that are in low points, and we can understand that we need to wrap our arms around people and that the government is never going to be good at doing that, which is why I believe so strongly and limited government. But I think for me, when you asked me if

I feel judge, well, of course I feel judge. I lost my job over it for expressing an opinion and a view. But I've also had a lot of conservatives come after me and use that label with me that I'm not a real conservative, that I I don't belong here. While she is pro choice, so she is not one of us. Of course I felt judged on that issue, but at the end of the day, it doesn't mean I'm going to stop saying it. I don't care if Ben Shapiro calls me a bimbo every single day. He

can do that, that's fine. I'm not going to back down. I've never backed down once in my life, and I'm not going to start today because a conservative tells me I'm not a conservative. Okay, not gonna happen, especially when there are so many of those quote unquote conservatives who were never Trumpers, and then Trump won and then all of a sudden they wanted us all to forget that they were never Trumpers. Okay, not how it works. But

I didn't strip their conservative card for that reason. So don't come after mine because I have a view that might not align with yours. A lot of room for a lot of conservatives in this movement. No, I really appreciate that that response there. Thank you for sharing that. Now. You mentioned conservatives sometimes don't wrap their their arms around folks on particular issues, and I've seen um as an examin a sample Canada's el ones. When it came to George Floyd, she made more of a mention of his

criminal record than it being a tragedy. Some argued, would you think that that would be another issue with some of these issues of race where tragedies happen. And granted, we recognize the fact that law enforcement is majority good. I would argued that most of the law enforcement that I've worked with, and I was a spokesperson for a law enforcement organization, I support the police on very pro police. I do believe there should be police reform. Is that

one of the considerations around it for you? Now, when we're talking about police reform, that's sticky for me because you know how pro law enforcement I am, and I think that the police do the best that they can with the resources they have, and the goal is never going to be to defund the police and take away those resources because it only makes them better to have more resources at their disposal. But I will say this

at Sea Pack. Actually, Dan Bongino was on our Fox Nation show and he said something to me that really resonated, and it's something that I'll take with me. He said, whenever he does interviews or talks about law enforcement, or he talks about being lem or some of the social justice issues in our country, especially over this past summer.

He said that even though he's incredibly pro law enforcement, the way that he approaches these issues with people who disagree with him on that issue is he says, I acknowledge the fact that you've had different experiences than I've had. Now that was something that kind of hit me because I was like, you know what, it's okay to say that.

It's okay for me to be very pro law enforcement, and I am probably one of the most pro law enforcement people you'll ever speak to, but it's okay for me to understand that my experiences are not going to be the same as yours, and your experiences are going

to be the same as mine. So we should always try to come from a place of at least understanding where someone is coming from, even if we don't agree with it, and then go to battle, go to war, talk about the policies, talk about the the issues all day long and disagree, but we can take a moment to come from a place of understanding and not automatically think that the other person is wrong, but maybe just

the other person has different experiences. That's something that quite honestly, I need to get better at, and I'm learning how to do that, And I think it's making me better as a political commentator and as a person, and I'm going to continue to do that. Wow. That Yeah, that was a great response to I mean, thank you, thank you for that. Now, what what did you think of the George Floyd's situation? Generally, Hey, listen, Obviously, anybody that

watched that knows that it was a tragedy. I don't think anybody could watch that video and not feel just absolutely gut wrenched by it. Now, obviously horrible tragedy. What happened afterwards, and people using his name and using the experience to destroy this country, to destroy one another, to destroy businesses, to create such a racial divide in this country like we haven't seen since we had segregation and slavery. That to me was also incredibly sickening. But another thing

that bothers me is this BLM movement. It started out as Black Lives Matter. Hey, understand, our communities are hurting. I can I can get on board with that, we can have that discussion. But once you start moving to defund the police, all cops are bastards. Fry am like bacon looting, burning and feeling justified in that and using George Floyd and other people as your banner. I can't get on board with that. And I also can't get on board with companies who put BLM over everything, knowing

that their agenda is to destroy the nuclear family. They have Marxist roots, and they wanted to fund the police. So that's where I take a lot of issue with what happened afterwards. But it's okay to say what happened to George Floyd was completely and totally wrong. It's okay to have those discussions, even as someone that's pro law enforcement. There are so many people in law enforcement they were gut wrenched by that, if not everybody in law enforcement

that was gut wrenched by that. But what happened afterwards inexcusable, and I don't disagree, not one bit, absolutely inexcusable. And a lot of these people who went into their own neighborhood and destroy them, leading to billions of dollars of losses during a pandemic made matters and worse. So you can't say that you're marginalized um and creating more of a destitute situation for yourself. So that that is a

strong point of view there. Now do you think in a situation like that, police reform would be necessities, maybe additional police training, say something like that wouldn't happen again. You know, it's really easy to look back at it and say, hey, we need police reform. What really concerns me, though, is nationalizing that, which is something I think the Democrats really want. They want a set of rules and regulations as at at a national level. Every community is different,

every police department is different. I think we need more community outreach. I think we need more officers who are willing to go into those communities, to go into schools, to build those bonds and build those relationships and break down some of that mistrust that has been there for generations. I think that that would go a long way, probably

a lot further than actual police reform. But I also look at what happened in California with some of their police reform and speaking to so many offers as officers that say, hey, listen, we're in these positions where we're going to these communities and we're trying to protect and serve oftentimes minority communities or communities of color, but we are so dang terrified to make a wrong move, to do anything, that we're either going to put ourselves in

the line of danger and death and not come home to our families at night, or we're gonna sit back and we're gonna do nothing, and we're gonna leave these communities defenseless because we're so afraid to act. And that's what a lot of California policies have done to their police force there. So that is what really concerns me when we start talking about police reform, is that we're going to get to the level of California where officers

are like, hey, listen, I can't win here. I want to go into these communities, I want to protect and I want to serve, and I want to go home into my family at night. But these policies have made it so that I'm unable to do that. And what happens when they start feeling that way, You're gonna lose the good officers. You're gonna lose the good officers that are out there to protect and serve, and what you're probably gonna get is you're going to get the bad apples.

So that's what truly concerns me when we talk about police reform and some of the policies that are that are put forth. If we're gonna use the California model, I'm uninterested. Yeah, I mean it's in it's more than California. So I think that there should be some form of police reform trainings that the Senator Tim Scott method, if

you will. But at the same time, Illinois, I think it's another example they just passed a police reform whereas you can anonymously call in on the officer, make an accusation unverified, and they can literally be dismissed from their job. Is really insane. And that right there is where you lose a lot of good officers is perhaps think, hey, I've been doing this for fifteen twenty years, i might as well retire. I'm not gonna deal with this BS.

And I would agree with that assessment. So common sense reformed for me, and I understand your your your point of view. Now, if I can switch gears right before we get to the border, because I want to talk about your trip to the border here soon, but if I can get you to just let your hair down, Tommy laren Um after dark, if you will. Uh So last year you had this this video they weren't really really viral where you were talking about men and everyone

picked it up. I was gonna call you before we had this conversation, just to make sure we could talk about it, like, hey, do you mind if I mentioned that? But it was so good and honestly, as an individual who's been talking about relationships, I had dr drew on here talking about relationships. There's a guy by the name m Kenny, said Kevin Samuels that I want to bring

on to talk about relationships. But you have a very interesting point of view, and would you mind sharing some of the points you made that went viral because I thought a lot of them were credible points. And as a man who um, I want to get married very soon, if you will, as a man who's in that particular space, what should men be looking out for? What? What are women who are these great positions and that great women? What should guys be looking out for and what should

they be doing to get those particular women? Sure, and I won't say that women are are blameless in this either, because women have changed a lot too, but millennials and then even worse the generation after us, just the way that the interactions are, the the surface level level, the shallow, the leaving somebody of value because you want to post somebody on your Instagram that might look a certain way.

It seems like we're completely losing sight of valuing value, which is one of the points in my video my p s A to Boyish men, is that it does seem like everybody is living for the Graham. Everybody's living to be validated by how attractive the person that they're they're with is or what status they have, and people are not going underneath the hood and figuring out the character of somebody, the beliefs, the value, the tenacity of

the determination. And it's a problem and we're seeing it more and more now and the number of young women. I'm telling you, I'm only twenty eight years old, but right now what I'm seeing among my friends and their younger sisters is twenty one year old girls who are dating fifty something year old men. And these fifties something year old men they're not longer interested in even a twenty five year old. They want a twenty one year old. Why do they have anything in common with a twenty

one year old. I'm gonna go ahead and say probably not. But the problem is is that these twenty one year old girls. They want to have things, they want to have, the luxury, they want to have, you know, the money. And these men want to have a hot girl on their arm all what all for other people? Also that other people can validate and verify them. And I think that's a big problem, not only with men, but with

women right now. I also think another problem, and I always call it, you know, excuse my language, but the pacification of American men. It's a problem. Men do not know how to interact anymore from a position of from of strength. And I'm not saying that we need the so called toxic masculinity, but men are terrified to go and actually approach a woman in real life and speak to her like a human being. They would rather hide in a d M or be a pen pal and

not actually interact with people. It's astonishing to me how many men are just terrified of having a conversation and they'd really like to keep everything on the surface. And I think it's just comes from a deepenseea purity and men just really aren't men anymore. And I'm sure that there are some, but from my experience, boy, it's hard out there. If you're a woman with goals and you're a woman who knows herself and is confident, you're gonna

come off as intimidating. And it's not something that men want. They want the easy route. They don't want to have to work at it. They want the twenty one year old to just wants the lip filler and the Instagram photo and uh, that's about it. Unfortunately, so the sugar diddy culture has exploded and they're getting a twenty one years old one year old women fifty. Yeah, and there are so many young girls who seem to want that.

I mean girls that that don't have daddy issues that you know, you typically think about a girl that's gonna go for an older man or want to be taken care of. It is like, oh, I bet she's got some issues or or something. No, no, no no, these are just average girls that are brought up in great families that are otherwise have everything going for them. But it's the Graham, I'm telling you, it's the Instagram, it's the TikTok. They want to have the labels, they want to be

in on a fancy vacation. Maybe it's reality TV creeping in there too. I don't know what it is, but boy, we need to not only educate our our young men, but educate our young women on what value is. I'm afraid we're losing as a culture in a fast and rapid rate. And let me tell you, as someone who lived in l A, I completely agree with you on that. And I'll tell you though a lot of women where it used to be when we were growing up during

those years, it was all about securing yourself. You wanted to look appropriate, you wanted to make sure you you didn't sleep with a guy the first time you meet him. And I hate to mention that, but a lot of times it happens. And then some women, though, they especially in l A and those kind of environments, they're expecting things if you want to get to know them, uh, and not necessarily that I've had the experience, because I don't go for that. But they're looking for guys that

are gonna cash them out. They want the fine dates, they want Tiffany bracelets, they want Birking bags, they want Christian lubes, they want the whole deal. Otherwise you're not getting to know of them. That's where a lot of

education is necessities at this point. Would you agree, especially you haven't lived in l A. You've seen it firsthand, you know, And I would like to say that it's just l A. And I actually mentioned that in my video because you know, folks often say, like, maybe it's just the city that you live, and it's like that, and everyone thinks it's their city. That's like that. Everyone thinks it's l A, or it's Miami, or it's Dallas,

or it's Nashville, or it's where you live. I can tell you I've lived a lot of places and it's a problem everywhere. And I think it just goes back to that valuing value and in your right, there are women are not blameless in this. There are a lot of women that think that they are owed something. And

it is the instagram of the whole thing. It's probably a lot to do with culture and in reality TV and what people think a relationship looks like because of what they see on TV or what they see on Instagram, and they think that that's fulfilling. Um at the end of the day, you and I know it's not. But

I worry also. I hate to always blame the parents, but you kind of have to a little bit in certain circumstances because I think if you have a good family, and you have that tight knit family that spends time together, that talks about values, or that has family values. I think that translates into relationship values, and unfortunately that's deteriorating.

I mean, how many families do you see at dinner or how many moms do you see pushing strollers that are on their Instagram or on their TikTok, not paying an ounce of attention to their kid, not really coming together as a family. You know, you see people on on dates, married couples, both on their phones. This is a big problem. But I think it goes back to family values and we need to restore those as well before we even start getting into relationship values. Yeah, and

that's gonna be a tough one. How do we restore family family values is a whole another conversation, and I think that's tough. People who are listening to this podcast right now, they may be older, they may not be all young folks, uh, And I think a lot of folks don't understand the pressures that come with dating these days.

It is a totally different ball game. It's a new language generation Z is on one, if you will, and the standards have changed and what I've realized is even when you treat a woman, I've had experiences with the utmost respect and dignity and you don't do anything wrong. Still and all some of those women could be uh more interested in the glitz and the glamor of the basketball player or you know, the guy who just has the fast money who's willing to spend it however you can.

And that's that's what's really disappointing to me at this particular time. I wish men and women have have these conversations because I think women are oftentimes have the some of the same concerns. I mean, just as you're saying that you're you don't like women who are interested in the stuff, in the materialistic things, then there are so many women that are like, hey, listen, I'm a good woman, but all this guy wants is the twenty one year old.

So I think there's got to be a place for people that are serious to find each other and have the conversations because there's I think there's a big lack of communication too, and everyone thinks that they need to put up a facade. You know, men think that they have to be something, and women think they have to be something, and if everyone would just be themselves, we'd probably be a lot better off. But people are so afraid to be that anymore. And it goes back to

confidence too. I think for me, you know, I stop worrying about what people thought about me ten years ago. I don't care anymore. So I'm gonna be me. And if people find that intimidating or they want something else, I mean, like, go find it. Because I found that confidence in myself and I think that that confidence attracts the right people. So I think confidence is another big thing. We need to be teaching more of true confidence, not

Instagram validation and likes, but true confidence. If you take all that away. Yeah, I agree, we should do Instagram live on that. I'm following you on I g but do it absolutely. I would love to actually do that. I'll text you on that. Now, let me ask you about your trip to the border. You've got an exciting trip to the border. And when I say exciting, you're gonna be able to show Americans what's really going on, not what the Biden administration is lying about. What should

we expect to see? This is gonna be a Fox Nation special. I imagine, Yes, it is, and I'm so glad, Joanna, only you and I could go from talking about sugar daddies talking about the border. So I really love that transition there. But yeah, next week. I've done several border trips. I've been to really all corners of it on several official trips during the Trump administration, where Customs and Border Protection was more than happy to have me down there and see what was going on, even when it was

really bad and the caravans were coming through. But as it's been talked about a lot in the media, finally there has been Even if it's not an official gag order, it is an implied gag order. I would never be able to go down with board patrol and have an official visit like I did during the Trump administration because this administration is just not going to allow it, especially for someone like me. But luckily there are ways to go around that. For me. Um, I want to talk.

If I can't talk to border patrol, I'm going to talk to the ranchers, the landowners, the people that are living in these towns that are being invaded and flooded with illegal immigrants. I want to go talk to them because they're seeing this stuff. Firsthand, I'm going to talk to a rancher in Arizona, in a small town and Zona next week, who's seeing people, I mean going through his yard, in his barn, just absolutely with no regard

for his property and they're coming in by the thousands. Now, just imagine that as a landowner and then also feeling like you're kind of defenseless. I mean, what do you really do? You've got thousands of people coming under your property. You're trying to run a ranch, you're trying to be a property owner, and you're having to deal with this because of this Biden administration cattle call that he issued

and open borders agenda that he is pushing. So I'm gonna go down and get the real story and I'm gonna bring it back and show everybody on Fox Nation. And Uh, I think people are going to be really surprised to see what's really going on, not these official congressional visits, but what's really going on. Yeah, we look forward to seeing that certainly, So we'll keep our eyes out for that. And before we let you go, what's next for you beyond the Border project? You've got a

book coming out, new TV show? Uh, what do you have going. Uh, you know, I always got something on my sleeve, So I'm just having some fun right now. I enjoy doing stuff like this. I'm proud of you for everything that you're doing. Eventually, you and I are going to get to work with each other on Fox. I know we will. It's been a long time coming, but you know, I'll get to do something at some point. Hey, I'm just gonna keep doing this and speaking the truth.

So wherever that leads me, who really knows. But I'm gonna have some fun along the way, and you and I can do that. I g live on relationship because I think we could have some fun on that. I know. I'm really looking forward to that. Like I tell you, I'm following you on there. We really should coordinate time to do that because I have so many stories. Sincerely, Now, what can people follow you on social media? Oh? Boy?

You know? You type in T O M I Tommy larn and you'll find me Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, whenever Trump comes out with his new social media platform. Can't wait for that. You know, maybe someday a nice, simple and completely um appropriate only fans who knows I'm all over social media, you'll find me I promise, yeah, I think you'll enjoy it. I have a lot of fun. Well, I know there's a lot of sugar Daddy's on only fans, but you're not involved, not interested. I understand that. I

say that respectfully. Don't sue me. We're all good, Okay. Well, Tommy, thank you so much for joining out. Out with Gianno called Well, my friend, has been a great conversation, and I can just tell from some of the things you were saying that just so much growth in your thought process, your opinions on things, and talking about having compassion for people, which I'm not saying you didn't have before. I thought

you were awesome before. But it just goes a long way when someone who's such a big figure like you can have that kind of conversation because it informs other people and then they begin to think differently. So I thank you for that, Tommy. Absolutely, it was a great conversation. Good to talk to you, my friends, and good luck in Florida. Thank you so much. This is out Alowed with Gianno called Well, Tommy Larring everybody, Thanks to charm

Me Laryn for a great interview. If you're enjoying the show, please leave us a review and read us with five stars on Apple Podcast. If you have any questions for me, please email me at the Outlawed at Gingeridge three sixty dot com and I'll try to answer them in our future episodes. And please sign up for my monthly newsletter at Gingwish three six dot com slash out loud. You can also follow me on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and parlor

at Giano Caldwell. And if you're interested in learning more about my story, please pick up a copy of my bestselling book titled Taken for Granted, How Conservatism Can Win Back to the Americans. The Liberalism Failed Special thanks to our producer John Cassio, researcher Aaron Klingman, and executive producers Debbie Myerson Speaker New Gingridge, all part of the Gingridge three sixty Network