Episode 28: The N word, no one should use it including black people.

You may have friends that have used it. You may be a Caucasian American who have used it in rap lyrics. You just repeated the lyrics, No big deal, right. You may be an African American who uses this figuratively in

a form of love. You think there's nothing wrong with it, But let's be clear, there's something very wrong with this word, even if you're using it and rap lyrics, even if you're using it as a sense of love, even if you're African American and you're a descendedtive slave, there's no right time, no matter who you are, to use this word. I want you to listen to this audio, which I think is very important. It's a conversation between rapper Jay Z and Oprah Winfrey, and he talks about his rebranding

of the N words. Not being a big fan of rap music because of misogynist lyrics and because of the use of the N word, you obviously feel differently and a little bit a little bit a little bit and tell everybody why. What we discussed is is more of uh words. People give words power, and for our generation, what we did was we took the word and we took the power out of that word. You know, we turned a word that was very ugly and hurtful into

a term of endemment. So I mean, even when someone says it's still intention behind what you say, but um pretty much took the power out of the word. Because if we just start removing words from dictionary, just make up another word the next day, so we don't dress the problem. The problem is racism, right, That's really the problem. You know, jay Z, I've in Georgia music absolutely, but

I wholeheartedly disagree with you. I disagree with many figures within the black community, within cultural communities who believe the usage of this word is okay if we want to be honest about it. And for people who may not even know the history of the word. It was the summer of sixteen nineteen when a ship arrived in the port of Virginia carrying around twenty Africans who were chained

up to be sold as slaves. It was the first documented arrival of slaves in the US, and Africans were referred to using the Spanus and Portuguese words for black, which was the N word. You know, And I have to be honest. And I'm personally ashamed that I'm even admitting to this, but I have to be honest as we have this dialogue. I've used the N word. I grew up in a household where the use of the N word was permitted. I grew up extremely pouring the

South Side of Chicago. I've had experiences with friends where we thought, hey, let's collaborate, let's talk, let's share and love, and we'll use the the N word to show that we like each other, that we respect each other. We tried to do this rebranding thing is jay Z just mentioned. It was flawed. It's a lie. It's something that we should never do. And I'll be honest with you. I had a situation when I was a young teenager a

store in Chicago. It was a Von Dudge store where I went in and had a conversation with the individual who worked there. I talked about this in my book Taking for Granted How Conservatism Can went back to the Americans, a liberalism failed. This individual who managed the store say get out of here in word, and he chased me out of the store. And it wasn't that I was doing something wrong. I was just looking at the merchandise. But that was the first time that I really felt

the anger, the hate from that word. But yet and still I used the word why because society said it was okay. Hip hop culture said it was okay. But I want to say that it is not okay. You can't say black lives matter and still use that word why because the word is still filled with hate no matter how much you branded. And I'm gonna tell you,

you're empowering racism and races by using this word. And I'm talking to every rapper, every cultural influencer, politician, business person, white American, Asian American, Latino American, Indian American, and yes, every black person. If you use the N words stop now. Yes, I'm talking to you Cardi B. I'm talking to you jay Z I'm talking to you, Killing Mike, I'm talking to you. Kanye West, who i'm a big fan of. I'm talking to you, Big Pout, I'm talking to you.

Charlemagne to God, I'm talking to you, Dave Chappelle. I'm talking to you, Nicki Minaj. I'm talking to you, Drake Beyonce, Colin Kaepernick, Joe Biden, even who's used the word in Congress. This is never appropriate, absolutely not. You can never say black lives matter when you're disenfranchising black lives by using the N word. And that's important for everyone to walk away with. There's never an appropriate time to use it,

so stop. Now take a listen to this very important conversation that I have with the billionaire founder of Papa John's. It's one that you will certainly want to share with your families and listen to throughout the week. This is Outllied with Gianno Calledwell, John Schneider, Welcome to Outline with

Gianno called Well, How are you doing today? Thanks for having me, No, It is honestly a pleasure to be able to have an open, honest dialogue on all things considered in this In this episode, I want to begin by asking you about your resignation from Papa John's, which, of course you found it and became a billion near by way of back in when you were the chairman of the company, you were on a conference call receiving

public RELATIONSHI training from an outside marketing firm called Laundry Service. While doing a role play in exercise to prevent future PR issues, you reportedly said Colonel Sanders called blacks and in word it was the full word. I believe before I complained that Sanders never faced public backlash, Can you go back to that day, what exactly happened and what

were you thinking at the time. Well, the comment was made and taken out of the media context and and and contrast the you you kind of just did it yourself. Colonel Sanders called black people the N word. I never used the word. Twofold one is I never used the word. And it's not a vocabulary, as we'll talk about a little bit later. I don't want to end of vocabulary

with regards to me, with regards to the media. The second thing is jabbow is the contrast, Um, there's there's certain nose, you know, there's there's no there's hell no, and there's no way you know, and there's no and in this case, it was, hey, people are using this word. Don't use the word. I never used the word. Okay, so are you saying that inn word the N I G G A or n I G G E R. You never used the actual word you said in word so in letter W O R D that's what you

said on the conference call. Is that what you're saying? No, no, no, I said, Colonel Sander's uses the word quite frequently. I didn't understand why they would pay me in the same John or when I use the word debacle, that's the word I really was referring to. If you read again, you did the same thing the rest of me. He's doing you you're taking it out of context. I said, Colonel Sanders calls black people the N word. I never use that word. What I don't understand is he uses

the word. I use the word debacle, and I get same phone in the John Drew again, Giotto. It was a contrast and it was taken out of context, just like you did. You said it twice now one call. Well, no, no, no, no, I want to I want to understand because I haven't heard any tape. And apparently there's not been a tape published to my knowledge of the actual conversation. Therefore, I'm trying to understand because I'm not going to use the word,

just like you're not going to use the word. If this was, Hey, you know, colonel Senators called black people in words, Okay, that's one way of describing it, versus Yeah, Colonel Senators called black people in I, G G A. That would be a distinction. So that's what I'm trying to understand here. If you actually use the word or you said a word, that's that's what I'm trying to

ascertain in this moment. Well, there's a transcript out there that is the latter to your point, and the is you know, the word in some place is a still problem, which is uh runch total uh contradictory to everything that I believe for and is in my vocabulary. So again, Colonel Sanders used the word, used it frequency frequently, and I never used the word and still don't use the word. Okay.

So in that sen As you're saying you don't use the word in your daily life, you use the word um as an example providing context to what Colonel Sanders did and never received backlash four. But I'm still confused as if you as to if you use the word to just provide the context. So if you're saying, hey, Colonel Sanders used the let's use it for example, if it was the B word, Colonel Sanders used the B word or Colonel Sanders said bitch's there's a difference between

both of them, and they'll probably mute that out. But there there's a big difference between both of those. And I'm really trying to underst saying that. I wish I saw the transcript beforehand, so I know, but there's been a lot of conversation. But we'll well, we'll we'll move on. Let me ask you this question. You said in an interview and that it took you twenty months to get that word out of your vocabulary. What did you mean

by that? No, No, when I said in the interview again you take it to me the third time you've taken it out of contact to be looking at what I said through the and the rest of that comment was is it's all false. What I was saying is the media needs to take the vocabulary out of anything that I would say with regards to me. The words were misconstrued. But again, UM, that doesn't bother me when you guys, because you all need clicks and you need um,

you know, you need things to provocative. I have no problem with the media printing if I do misconstrue something, even though it's real clear what I met. The problem I have with you, guys is when I do say something that is uh, that is truthful. Uh. Example, again, you've done it three times. You take things out of context where hey, Colonel Sanders called white people the N word. I never used the word. I'm confused why we're confusing

debacle with the N word and having all this negative publicity. Okay, so in other words, you never use the N word. You use the word debacle instead. No, I said, Colonel Sanders uses the N word. I said, I never used that word, and I don't use that word, and I didn't before this instance, and I don't that I haven't since what I was referring to is for some reason, we got stirred up in a situation, uh that was divisive with the words to raise on the word debacle,

the word. I use the word debacle in the context of my guys. Goodell, Roger Goodell, the commissioner in the NFL. Let's let's get our act together here. We have to solve this to the owners and players satisfaction. That's your job, and it's now it's been a color of the boxing. I want to pick up from there in a moment, but first let's go to break. I'm ask you this very direct question. Have you ever, in any context used the word in I G G A or in I G G E R in any context ever? Wese wordever,

never or absolute? I I can't even remember even making an off colored joke with that word. So you know, I'd like to say I equivably Uh no, I think it's unequiventally no, because the word very offending. Uh. I was raised that way I was raised and household where everybody was treated with love and kindness and mutual respect and regardless of their gender, or their nationality, or their color their skin, And so that word was just off limits.

And that was the way I was raised. And I'm thinking, becoll me kind of caught me on the spot here my parents. I never heard my parents or grandparents use that word, So I just wasn't part of our vocabulary. Okay, So to you, I want to just make sure that I'm understanding you. You don't believe that you've ever used the word before. You don't recall ever using the word before, but it's possible that you might have. Oh, I mean in fifty nine years. I mean, there's a lot of

things possible. One thing is for sure, the use of the word I do found find offensive for absolutely, and it definitely is not part of my vocabulary, never has been, and ever will be. Okay, So what have you learned since this, because I'm imagining when the reporting and I know you said that it's inaccurate, when the reporting came out suggesting that you did use the word, um, that's what was suggested be a many media outlets. What what happened then? Did you get friends because I know you're

you're a celebrity. Uh, you're a billionaire. You have a lot of I'm sure wealthy black friends that may have contacted you. Did anyone reach out Oprah Winfrey or anyone say hey, you know, I just want to talk to you about this and understand what happened. Did you get any calls like that? I got total support from the black community, whether it's uh, Reverend Elliott, Reverend Cosby Reverend Tolbert, one of our chief executive officers, UM was ahead of operations.

Simon Smith been with us fourteen years, a personal friend. He was totally supportive. Of course, my friends that I grew up with at Our of Color, they were supported, my dearest form, my DearS friends next Smith of years. No nobody turned on me. Nobody believed that UM. And that's probably the blessing from God. And all this is the public never bought it, UM, you know, they just

didn't buy something. Then they add up here. You know, people are smart, I mean they really you know, they see two things and I think they sold this for what it was, and it was a set up. Do you have any friends or and I know you said your grandparents and your your parents, you've never heard them use it. But do you have any friends, whether they be black, white, or in different that have used the word around you? Well, if they did, then they weren't friends for very long. And I got out of the

room quickly, quickly. Now I appreciate that. I think what what has happened in certain situations, and I I'm adamantly against the use of the N word. And I'll tell you I grew up extremely poor on the South Side of Chicago, where every member of my family used the word for the most part, friends family, that was it was one thing that we did and one thing that

I'm ashamed to say that I did frequently. But as I've educated myself since then, UM, when I'm around people who use it, no matter what color they are, black, white, Hispanic, it makes no difference. I asked them to not use the word, especially around me. So since you've had these experiences, Um, have you been in those environments? Maybe once or twice, But again, UM, if that word comes out, there's I do one of the things, Hey, don't don't ever use

that word around me. That was before this happened. Um. And or two is I just believe immediately, but the word is not gonna be tolerated with me, my friends, or people I associated with. And UM, that's the truth.

Let's move into this investigation that was commissioned by your lawyers that argue that your your use of the slur was not racist because you also expressed this thing for racism on the call as, UM, do do you understand why people kind of took it in the direction that they did in terms of believing that you use the N word. Well, of course, when you have um, Forbes, we'll take what we'll pick on Forbes magazine for a second. Forbes never gave me the courtesy that you just gave me.

At least you heard you heard me out. And whether you agree with me or not, I you know, I don't know, and we're well agreed to disagree. Forbes just ran with it without any doing any fact facts checking, took it out of context, didn't emphasize the contrast um once they put that headline out and it was a media frenzy and nobody nobody checked the facts. So and you have a board of directors that basically wanted the company, wanted to steal my company. So this was a perfect

um excuse to get rid of John. So you have a board of director as in a company that didn't They never came out and said that I was a racist, because you know it's not true. They never came out and said anything of the sword. Um that did not say, hey, that's not what he said. You know, by by all means that's he's not that. We wouldn't tolerate that. We've been on the John's board for some of them eighteen years.

We are very strong as a company in our culture with diversity and upholding and respecting everybody's rights and their dignity, and try to treat him with kindness and love. You take that and you put on top of the Forks. Forks puts a salacious headline by this guy. Uh, it's by this guy. Didn't exactly what I was said, and taking things out of contrast, it made it sound like something it wasn't because what I said was actually the point I was making is, you know, was the anti racist.

Don't do this for God. Don't use the word because I never used the word as a leader. So I understand exactly how the public could understand. Uh, And you feel the way they felt because they were misled. The medium misled them, laundry service misled them, and Papa John's

board of directors misled them. And I'm looking at the transcript here and it reads quote what bothers me is Colonel Sanders called blacks, And it says and in this da da da da da s I'm like, I never used that word, and they get away with it, and we use the word debacle and we get framed for the same genre, so that that is to be at least, um, what's in the transcript there which it doesn't spell it out to I can only take your word for it in terms of what you said you were on the conversation.

There's no audio of it to my knowledge that's out there at this moment. So um, we'll take your word for it. But let me ask you this question. Uh, is there any any scenario at all where it's appropriate in your mind to use the N word. No. I didn't believe it was appropriate years ago, thirty years ago, fourty years ago. And I think it's even um more emphasized today that you know, you just can't use the word. I've always thought it's it's it's just not a healthy

word for anybody. I think it's negative. I think it's hurtful, and um I think I think you know that it should be UMU, it should be out of everybody's vocabulary. As we talked about. I wish more folks stood up like you're standing up and just said, hey, you know what, every community, whatever your color skin is, we'll don't use the word now. Since you have this major platform, your major voice, everybody knows Papa John's everyone knows the commercials.

We've all seen the red shirts. UM, we've enjoyed the pizza that you created and you're the founder of. Now that you have this platform where people at least believe that you you've used the word, you've apologized for at least um the perception of it, what is it you intend to do to create greater clarity that your white brothers and sisters, or your your your your friends and your family and whoever else, people you don't know who

may use the word gratuitously obviously just using it. Is there anything that you're looking to create a platform to say, hey, no, this is wrong, so people can be educated and not use it in their daily, daily lives. Because what I see on a consistent basis, especially when it comes to rap music, rap music has conditioned younger white folks to use the word gratuitously and just use it all over

the place. Is there anything that you're looking to do or you want to do to provide some education around the subject matter? A great question, JOHNO, and I think a couple of things really positive have come out of this. One is UM. When you have adversity, UM, and especially when you have adversity flipped on you by people that know that it's a false narrative and no, it's not true that you really care about. It strips you down to the essentials of your character, your dignity, and you know,

your daily life. And so this while all's this done, is scripting me back to um where I started in a brooin closet when you know, when I was broke, it's always it's just take me back to the basics, and that was the fundamentals that my mom and my dad, my grandfather taught me. The thing that I want to get out of this is I don't want this to happen to anybody ever again. Nobody should have to endure

this kind of false narrative. You know, if they if they say they will will use the hypothetical, say they have a cocaine issue, and they ad meant they have a cocaine issue. You know they can they can go get help. And this situation with the canceled culture and the media persecuting, persecuting folks like me that are wealthy, successful and somewhat conservative, We're gonna get targeted. We're gonna

get targeted, and that's that's not right. This So if if I could canceled, cancel culture, if we could use this as a platform, so what happened to me doesn't happen to anybody else in their lifetime. That would be really um turning limits uh and to eliminate And you say use this as a platform, which is great, because I really wanted to have this discussion before this even came up with you, um, for reasons that I think

it should be eliminated from everyone's vocabulary. I wanted to ask, though, do you have anything you're formalizing, uh, anything that you're really looking to push You're looking to educate people on just beyond social media and maybe doing interviews. Are you looking to formulate anything in that regard? Yeah, I think you've really got to look at what's the best for humanity. That's the beautiful thing about running Papa John is the

happiest days of my career. There where when people got raises, that got promotions, they were doing real well. I love to see other people do well in life, and I think, um, I think to make other people's lives better is a is really a personal mission in my So my four goals are I gotta really look if my soul what's important to me. It's got to be good for humanity. It's got to make other people's lives better, and it's

got to be scalable. I like to do things on a big time basis, and um, it's got to be something that is UM sustainable financially. You don't want to run out of money in six months or twelve months or eighteen months if you're trying to do initiatives. So um my, those four goals are something that are very important to being the most important is doing something that really helps UM humanity. I feel like a Papa John's.

You know, we were bringing friends and family together. You know, it was a celebratory kind of situation where people celebrated with the pizza and they got together, and that really touched my heart. UM. The last probably the last fourteen months along that same lines of thinking is we've been so involved with UM COVID and small businesses and just doing what little we could do to help them, you know,

stay on life support. So our goal that will come out of COVID, it's gonna shift from more of okay, what can we do for small businesses? We'll still keep programs alive, will still do educational things, will still give insight, will still give advice, UM, and hope, hope to help the small business uh, men and women because they're the heartbeat of the entire country. And then we'll we'll turn

to how do we cancel council culture. These people that run canceled culture, Giohno, to your point, I mean they're even I mean they're cruel. I mean they they do hate hateful things to other human beings. Um. That really is an injustice. If somebody's going around and just stabbing people with the night, they would be in jail because they're hurting other people with their actions. And cancel culture hurts people. Again, it's it's ecopathic, it's sociopathic. It's sick.

And they set on their computers and they make things up and they twist and they turn and they take things out of context and and for you know what, did the story somebody that's a good person, And that's just wrong. And if we can have a little influence to make media uh. In this case, we'll go back

and pick on Forbes again. If Forbes has just done their homework, if they if Papa Johns would have just done a proper investigation, they had come up with what Louis Free came up with, and then we could have had the dialogue that you and I aren heaven, which is okay, he was using it in the context of he never uses the word, nobody's used the word. Let's stop using the word as a society. And I know you stand for that. Absolutely, I do stand for that.

And since you mentioned council called, I want to ask you do you believe a person should be canceled for using the N word? Um depends on the context. I mean, when somebody says, okay, he or she used a racial slur, you know there he is, what's the racial slur? Give me the exact words and BS is what's the intent? What's the intent? And to me, if it's a racial slur, it's got a negative intent. When you and I are having the conversation we're having, we have a positive intent.

We want people to stop using the word. Just like I said, Hey, I never used the word. What's going on here? So? UM? You know, the cancel culture UM is problematic because it jumps on a partial truth or a half truth or mistruth and it destroys people. Now there's some cases where UM people actually do wrong. And in that case, I think they need to take the hint and let the chips lie where they lie. The

truth is the truth. As I told your own a conversation, they quoted what I said when I missed, misconstrued the media using the vocabulary with regards to me with the word my versus my. Um, that's okay because I said it. So let me either correct it or explain or tot look in the next sentence because it was just false. But you know I said it, so I have to explain it or apologize for it, or correct the record.

It's the problem with the media is when uh, they twist and they turn and it's not truthful, like they did with with the president President Trump in Georgia. You know, they went all out and said, you know he said what he said. You know, he got murdered for it. It comes to be they had a tape and he didn't say that. And by the way, this is a week or so before elections. Well that's just not right for the media to completely fabricate something and hurt the

president and hurt the outcome of election in Georgia. Now, and I understand that point of view, uh, completely and just to to to recount what you just said right now, and you and I'm not actually used the word in this conversation. I've spelled out the word two different versions of it. The one some black folks think is except for rap music, which I disagree, um and others, that has been used, uh in the form of real strong hate. It comes by way of slavery. Slavery Um, the first

slaves came over into the country. This is what the Portuguese used to describe them as being black. That those are much different distinctions there, But in terms of a person actually being canceled due to using that word a person and I understand you're saying people with nefarious intent, I get it. I understand that. So someone who's legitimately being racist. I had to experience years ago when I

was a teenager. I was in a store called Von Dutch and I was looking at some of the merchandizing and the supervisor came and he said get out of here. In word, he didn't want me in his store, and he really ran me out of the store. That obviously is a very sinister use of the word. But I think any use of the word is completely sinister. No matter who's using it. So in in your estimation year, Um, if a person uses it, white, black, whatever, and cancel

culture comes for them. They're on tape using the word or whatever the case is, do you believe that person should be canceled? Well, again back to the being consistent and not being hypocritical and being truthful. As you know, Como use the word. Joe Biden used the word three or four stams in Congress referring to a black so and they were canceled. Um, should they been canceled? I think that's for the public to judge. Should they said

what they said? Absolutely not. But as you can see, there's a prejudice, there's a bias, the hypocrisy that I'm in a training session that says, don't use the word because I never used the work. That was the point, that was, that was the intent. Joe Biden bloods it, blakes it out, and all of a sudden everybody forgets it, and Como bladed to it out on national radio and TV. I think it was a radio interview if I get

on TV and with no repercussions. So you see, to start contrast between the way one person is treated and the way the other people get treated. Now, I want to go to Papa John's. Here. Shaquille O'Neil is essentially the face of Papa John's. Now, UM, do you agree with having this athlete promote your company? Doesn't make sense. He's obviously this incredible black athlete that's been around forever. I'm not sure if he was a part of the company while you were there, or if he came afterwards.

How do you feel about this? I think the timing was Shaquille is excellent because of the environment we're in. Um. I don't get the demographics and uh, the feedback on how the public feels about this. Um, So I'm really not qualified to say I think. Um. I think he's well known. I think he's established. I think he does a lot of brands, and that may be a little bit confusing. Um, but I think the proofs in the

pudding with regards the Papa John's. Let's look at what happens to sales when colder goes off, you know, when COVID shuts down or dissipates. Let's see what happens, and then I think that would be a fair barometer whether he's the right or wrong. Spokesperson from Papa John's, why she wish Shakil if she kill sits on this board. And the Border directors at Papa John's, they know exactly what they what they did. They have the transcripts, transcript

they now have the tapes. It's a plane of his day. It's simple that the launder service, UH set me up? And Shaquille is going along with the farce. UM. I know he's a big guy. I think he's seven one, three hundred pounds. But when you watch somebody steal a man's company and they do it, they use race to do it, and you stand by that. Um, I'm not sure that's a real man. Do you believe he's being

used as a prompt? The word I use in the interviews I do is I think that Papa John's Border Directors is using Shakil as an instrument to cover up the dirty deeds they did. The most unfathoable thing John know about this whole thing is that Papa John's Border directors and executive use the black man, used the black woman, use the race, use race to steal the company. That's unfathoble out away with it. Is it right to say that they're using a form of racism and propping up

someone uh to steal your company. That would be my point of view. That's in fact really interesting. Let's continue from there in a moment after a quick break. Now, let me ask you this question, because you've accused Laundry Service the marketing agency on the call of conspiring against you. In fact, you filed the federal lawsuit against the firm a legend they begin discussing how to ruin your public image immediately after the call. Can you tell us more

about what you're accused using laundry services of? And do you blame Papa John's at all for what happened? And I think you just really did well, Yeah, we'll get to Papa John's. We see there's there's two tapes. There's the tape that the magistrate in Delaware saw the courts hal Um in Delaware under deb the wall. He's the one who presided over this. He saw one tape that

has the training session. By the way, we had a training session for forty five minutes, you know, and they didn't make one suggestion or one comment on anything I said. Other words, it's training session with no feedback. So it's

really not a training session. It's a bait session. It's you know, how can we bait him in the same something and if he does say so something sort of wrong, we'll do what they did is we'll just give half truth or part of the the a lot of the folders and make it sound like you said something he

didn't say. The thing that the problem for Laudery Service now is there's five or six minutes after the call, the training call, and by away, all celebrities, all everybody that goes on news, as you all know, has trained. You know, the public doesn't realize that. Um. Maybe you just think you just show up and you do an interview. You have to you have to know what you're going to talk about. You have to, you know, especially when you're dealing with something as sensitive right now in our

environment and our society. With grace and so here we have a so called training session was actually supposed to be a brand session. They switched the last minute, trying to trip me up in order to get me to say something they that I would say so they could tape it and hurt me with it with no coaching. Um. The last six minutes of the tape which is the second tape which the magistrate, uh for Chard is not seeing that tape. It's clear we hope John gets sent

out to f and pasture. We'll make sure he didn't have a job or work by Sunday. Um, let's set him up with a we have a gentleman ideal rebel I think that's the name that uh we got him on the sidelines, will take this viral will will will hurt this guy. So the ill intent um and what they expressed on the tape frankly shocking and it's chilling. Here's how bizarre this is. We hired an agency. We

paid them eight million dollars this year. That year they're paid to enhance the reputation, to make me actually look in the true light I am. When behind the scenes they're taping the conversation, they're setting it up, they're surprised. They're trying to provoke me, and all along they had ill intent. They did a complete one what they were hired to do to help me and actually did everything

they could to hurt me. Now, with regards of Papa John's, the question before the house is was Papa John's actively complicit in the set up or were they passively complicit? I don't have the answer to that right now. The way their behavior is, um, I think they were part of this, At least a couple of the directors were

part of this. And if that's the case, in other words, if the board of directors intentionally set the spokesperson, the founder, and the chairman of the board up on a false narrative with regards the race, it never explained that in the bolds that to Wall Street. I think they have personal culpability. So yes, I think, um, I think Papa John's is extremely vulnerable here and I think they're guilty. Do you ever plan on getting your company back? Is

there is there a way forward for that? Well, we talked about a higher power, and you know, things always happen for a reason, and the universe is alive and everything you know, things always you know are perfect. And so I mean, if I was going to take a break for Papa John's, what a nice time to take

a break this last two years. I mean with COVID, I mean, you're in the restaurant business and you're dealing with something as contagious and inspectuous as COVID nineteen, and you're trying to run a restaurant company and you're trying to get the people to work, and you're trying to get that you know people, the peeps out the door made right. So um, we'll see. I'm gonna leave it as an option after COVID dissipates, we'll find out how Papa John's does, see if they can stand alone two feet.

But frankly, I've really enjoyed the last few years. I was really running Papa John's for thirty four off and on for thirty four years. You're on a hamster wheel. As you know, it's brutal um and it takes you away from things that are really important, you know, like you know, taking good care of yourself and taking good care of your kids and in my case, grand kids.

Getting to spend more time with quality friends, quality family, and you know, doing little things like we talked about helping the entrepreneurs with COVID relief and doing videos on hey, you know, how do you get through this as an entrepreneurs. So I think it's been a great two yurietus and I'll keep my all my options open moving forward, and that includes Papa John's. Before I let you go, if you wouldn't mind. What are two or three most important

bits of advice you'd be willing to give you? Entrepreneurs are going to start their own companies. Don't give up. Don't ever give up until somebody tells you it's a dumb idea, and then know you're onto something. When tell people tell you you can't do it, Um, you know you're onto something. UM. Unsuccessful entrepreneur, here's no Forarner Times, And he says, okay, the answer is no. A guy like you and I there's a successful entrepreneurs We here no for Warner Times and we know the answers yes.

So don't give up at last, and at least keep the attitude positive. I mean, we're in a very tough time, our countries at a very tough time. UM, and attitudes, our emotions and emotions are infectious. They're contagious. And wake up every day, smile, thank God for another day. Go out there and be honest, do your best, and things will come out the other side in a great place. Well, John, I want to thank you so much for spending this time.

I hope that the folks who listening to this we'll get something out of it and I'm hoping we can really and truly move this country forward. And I appreciate the time that you've allotted for us here and out Loud with Giano Caldwell, and I want to wish you well and everything that you're doing, especially as you move forward with your lawsuits and and and and giving people the context in which you've had the conversation over that conference call. So I appreciate the time you spent with

us today. Thank you so so much, and your audience all the best, God blessed. Thanks to John Schnader for an intriguing interview. If you enjoying the show, please leave us a review and read us with five stars on Apple Podcast. If you have any questions for me, please email me at out Loud at Ginger Street, sixt dot com and I'll try to answer them in our future episodes, and please sign up for my monthly newsletter at Ginger dot com slash out Loud. You can also follow me

on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and parlor at Giano Calledwell. And if you're interest sitting learning more about my story, please pick up a copy of my best selling book titled Taken for Granted, How Conservatism Can Win Back the Americans at Liberalism failed Special thanks to our producer John Cassio, researcher Aaron Klingman, and executive producers Debbie Meyers and of course, Speaker new Rich, all part of the Ganis Street sixty network,