Episode 25: Where the GOP goes from here with Rudy Giuliani

FRO and one. On today's episode, we discussed Donald Trump, Joe Biden, the future to GOP Giuliani's time is the mayor of New York, how to stop crime, and so much more. Let's go. We got the one and only the very honorable Mayor Rudy Giuliani. Thank you, Mr Mayor for joining all Out with Gianno calledwell. Really appreciate being

very high. I regard you this, No, I appreciate that greatly. Now, I was reading something and before we get into the apology, because the interview and all that other stuff, but I was reading something recently which said that you would be at the Trump Hotel so often that they gave you a gold plate was said personal office that Rudy Giuliani. Is that true? Yeah, kind of a joke back made up that said we had we had a funny one

and we had a serious one. One said put off Giuliani, attorney at law, and the other had something crazy written on it, you know, the Trump coach. It was downstairs under the BLT restaurant in the corner. And during the impeachment proceedings, particularly when we were writing up answers and all, I started to get kind of uh restless, then locked up in a room, so I went downstairs so I could see people, and they decided to make up my

office one day. I hope to grow up and and have those kind of privileges that I'll be working my way up in two So that's very the long stretch. It was good though, Yeah, no, no kidding, no kidding. Now, before we get into I said it was a great honor to represent a president I admire so much, and and I'm I'm looking forward to hear more about that. But before we get into the politics and the issues of the day, I wanted to ask you about Russia. Limbaugh.

I know he was a friend of yours, legendary conservative radio host see of course passed recently, and you are were really good friends from what I understand. Can you just thoughts words on Rush? I would We were friends to thirty one years. We had almost say, we kind of grew up together and I had the same mentor Roger als So Roger Roger, you know, work with Rush at the beginning when he was developing his show. He also was my political consultant when I ran some mayor.

So I would be a lot of times in Roger's office and he'd be talking to Rush on the phone or we both be here together trying to chain Rush into being a radio host and plain me into being a politician. And we became good friends, and we started to play. We started to play touch football, and believe it or not, we used to play water volleyball. Imagine Russia Limbo playing water volleyball all summer. We would play every Saturday or Sunday at Roger Els plays. We played

water volleyball. And then we both love golf. So for the last seven or eight years we participated every year in the in the Els for Autism tournament. We wanted two out of the ten or twelve years that we've we played with with with Marvin Shankin, so we have two trophies together. And you know, it's funny this is this is the time of year we would practice for it February because it's in March. And I really miss him. That is quite the story. And I had no idea

that Roger Els was one time your mentor. Of course, Roger Els is the the founder of Fox News Channel, and makes sense why you had so much success as mayor. From a messaging standpoint, it was a genius a messaging What a genius? What a genius? I mean so and so and so, I mean and and Rush. I mean everybody wants to know why was rushed to a success. But let's start off with the fact that man was brilliant. I mean, he read, He consumed huge amounts of materials.

I think I used the trump is in there, you maal. And then he had a very facile mind, very very quick mind, very logical. I always thought that the thing that made the difference for him he could explain complex things in an easy way. And then he always had a sense of humor. And I think that's why you can hold an audience I mean three hours in the middle of the day. Yeah, I never understood how he could get so many people. Unbelievable, unblood the challenging man.

I think he's created a whole new discipline, a lot of ten out. But I mean he was like the first one to really do that. Absolutely tends of millions, and we remember him the guy father of radio who certainly taught a lot of young folks like myself I think or two about conservatism. So I appreciate rush Um, So thank you for sharing your thoughts on him. Now, switching gears a little bit. I know you've been the personal attorney for President Trump for years, You've known him

for a long time. Have you spoken with him recently? Is he in good spirits these days? Great spirits, He's in terrific spirits. He's getting very getting very excited about his appearance at seedpac. It could got a couple of surprises in mind, which I'm gonna try really hard not to give away. And Um, I think he's I think

he has spent a lot of time. You know, this is about the longest he's gone right without in a long time, without treating or he's actually given a lot of thought to where we're going as a country, where we're going as a party. I think he's gonna be a real surprised when he when he lays it out, hell well thought out it is. So I'm hearing you say that is the president about that announce campaign for president.

You can tell us there's only us talking. No, No, I would I would say no, no. I don't want to set that expectation. I think it's too early could do that. I think he's sure his heck is gonna make it clear. He's pretty interested. But I don't think. I don't think personally, you don't decide something like that so far in advance. I do think he's gonna want to he's gonna want to have a big role in guiding the party through the twenty twenty two elections so

that we get so that we get the House. We're real close in the House, and my goodness, we're right there in the Senate. But I mean the House. The House, I mean was a big surprise where we are definitely within reach of taking both houses. And I think the

concentration number one for him. I think the philosophy of the party has been able to give more thought to I mean because of all of the honestly, all of the vicious treatment that he was put through it, which I I think any other man would have would have cracked under the pressure they put on put that man through it, constantly pursuing him with false charges from David when he was running. They were making up the Russian thing. Uh, he hasn't had. People don't realize what a substance of

president he was. How much he got done. You do get a lot done. I mean, my goodness. He straightened at the economy. We had the best economy ever. He straightened out regulations. He knocked the regulations and has right. Yes, he completely revised foreign policy North Korea, big problem North Koreia. We can talk to legendary now historic peace agreements in the Middle East, which I hope Biby Cherry group doesn't really ruin with irresponsible agreement with the land. So I

think he's gonna he's gonna. I think he's sort of switch the two political parties in a way got us to realize that the Republican Party is now the party of the people and the Democratic Party is the party of the elite. And I agree with that assessment. They certainly went from the party of perceived the little guy to definitely, how much money do you have will welcome you in. Of course, the Democratic Party is what I'm

referring to. Now. It's interesting in reference in one of your earlier comments in terms of seed pack and saying that it's too early to wage something like a presidential race so early on. But if you're a guy who was in office and you had four years with the economy prosper you had the lowest unemployment rate for African Americans and minorities on record, Um, you're able to put in so many different policies that strengthened our economy, strengthened

our government, cut regulations, made sure businesses could prosper. You have a record like that, and then the race. Of course, he he has been saying that the race was stolen. Um, with that be in the case, how could you not decide that you're gonna run again? Because these guys that clearly Biden isn't gonna be productive as president. We've seen that already is first three days in office, he's already eliminating a billion dollars in wages, um, killing the Keystone pipeline.

I mean, people Biden voters have been finessed hoodwink, I mean Ben Boozel. So how is it the President Trump? I'm sure he's thought maybe I am absolutely going to do that. You don't think any of that's gonna come out this week? First of all, A little bit would be speculating because he hasn't really made a decision about number one about running and number two exactly how he's gonna put it, what he's gonna say, what's the right

way to approach it is. I think the thing that's very clear is he's very comfortable in the role and he's going to make sure that people understand it that he's he's the leader of the Republican Party, and that he's going to make sure the Republican Party is guided by very very solid principles and keeping I keep us growing as a party of the people. I mean, I like that. I enjoy I enjoy representing the people who feel that they've been cut out by government and I've

been ignored by government. And no, they don't have lobbyists, so they need to count on Donald Trump of their lobbyists. You know, I I really I think that's a very very um that's a great position to be in to grow and I think we will be able to attract a lot of young people that way too, because that's pretty exciting, you know, change, it's much more exciting and

just keeping up the shame, you know, broken patent. Considering what we just experienced in terms of election, looking back on that, how do you remember the presidential campaign just pulling behind the curtain. What were some of the things that were experienced, perhaps things that people haven't heard of um at this point because it was a number of lawsuits all over the country. UM. I personally believe that the GOP should have been ringing alarm on the mail

in balloting months before the election took place. That makes the most sense. And now we've had members of the party who have said so as well that they should have been ringing the alarm alarm. Can you give us any of the behind the scenes on what happened there? First of all, it was the strangest election ever, in part because of the lockdowns and shutdowns in pandemic and part because the Democrat candidate decided to spend most of

the campaign in the basement. It's like boxing with somebody doesn't show up, you're in the ring and he's he's he's hiding in the dressing room, and uh so it was. It was a strange campaign in that regard. I think you're absolutely right to focus on the mail in balloting because for years we had been warned that mail, that massive mail invaliding is uh it's gonna leave the tremendous fraud. So you had a report going back to I don't know, oh five or something with Carter and um and how

and Jim Acre and in it. They made a lot of recommendations coming out of you know, the two thousand election, and they said, under no circumstances should you have large scale mail in balloting, because you won't be able to protect against fraud. This is a Republican and a Democrat warning us. Seventy percent of European countries do not have any kind of mail in ballot, not even absolutely, because in one way or another they've all experienced the kind

of thing that we experienced. The other basically just have the old fashioned absentee balloting, which is very very different. That's where you've got to get an after David. You have to have to signature verified. You can only do it if you're truly going to be away. So for example, I mean I may have the numbers awfu a little bit. In a place like Georgia, they had something like four hundred thousand absentee ballots. This time they had something like

four millions. That may be Pennsylvania, but I think that the difference was crazy. You can't police four million mail in ballots because you don't you don't get to see the person, you don't get to identify the person. And if you don't have very very strict scrutiny of the signature, you can put in all kinds of phony ballots. And unfortunately, not even talking about this election, this has happened a lot in prior elections in this country and in other countries.

So mail in balloting, which was done because of the emergency pandemic, should be done away. It was. I don't disagree with doing away with the mail in balloting absentee. I think that's obviously necessary, especially for those who serve overseas, so understand that completely in those who are away in college as well. Now, when President Trump has said that there was millions of fraudulent votes, is he saying that these are the people who went in and saw someone

else's name and mailed it in. Or is he saying that because of the states, uh, disregarding the Constitution, if you will, and putting in their own mail in programs, a lot of it unconstitutional, Uh, at least from the rule of the Constitution per se. Is that what he's saying or is he talking about people are fraudently voted altogether and that caused millions of fraudulent votes. I would say he's saying vote and you know it's complicated because

it's different in different states. So we really have six or seven states that are involved. Pennsylvania, which is the case. Unfortunately, the Supreme Court didn't take I thought Justice Thomas wrote a brilliant dissent. Uh. That was the state in which basically what you had was the both the courts and the governor and the Secretary of State changing the rules.

They're not allowed to the Constitution of the United States says the state legislature makes the rules exclusively that section that's the article to section one cause to the Constitution, they are only the state legislation and the superb port has written on it and said that their power is plenary and it belongs only to that so so, so you have the change in rules. For example, you don't need to observe the signatures that you can cure ballots, uh, that you can you can send the vote in after

election day. Um, all those change of rules, we would say we're unconstitutional. In addition to that, there's the allegation and there's people that there's evidence of this after David's and video tape and other things that showed that there were ballots that were entered to make up for the the difference, ballots that were made up after the election. So I guess you would call that more in the

area of fraud. The problem was, we never got a hearing, No court would ever allow a hearing, nor have we been ever able to get any court to turn over to require the Democrats in these cities where it happened to turn over to us the actual piece of paper so we can examine it and see if it's legitimate or not. Nor have they allowed us to look at the machines. So twenty two machines were examined in Ansom County, Michigan. They were found to have all kinds of problems. So

that's what he's basing it up. Now, Why is it that the Supreme Court didn't do anything about it. Where's on Amy Coney, Barrett, where is Brett Kavanaugh? Where's all these individuals who sit on the Supreme Court who are supposed to be about justice and fairness? And uh, just saying it, telling him like it is, what what happened to those Supreme Court justices in these various instances? I mean,

the most recent decision just makes no sense. I mean, the recent decision would have nothing to do with this election. It would basically answer the question, which we need to know, who sets the rules? If you read the constitution, it says the state legislature sets the rules. If you look at what Pennsylvania did, the governor, the Secretary of State Democrats, and the superin court Democrat change the rules, which constitutionally they don't have the power to do. Supreme Court didn't

answer that question. So now it leaves you, as Justice Thomas and Alito, of course it's said, it leaves you with no answer, I mean, whatever your politics, with an answer. And that's what's so disturbing about this, because we've got more elections coming up, and just what next year was. So with this being the case, are we supposed to continue, where bureaucrats in some cases decide what the law is not based on the constitution, like what what can people

do to prevent this from happening again? Where there's a lot of ballot harvesting going on in places like Georgia, et cetera, where people are just taking their ballots, giving them to someone else and they put them in somewhere, so we don't know if fraud has taken place in between them giving a ballot and they're going to whatever court, house or election bureau, you know. And and here's here's

the here's the kind of catch two with that. A lot of cases actually were brought by the Republican National Committee before the election, raising a lot of these issues, and the court said it's premature, you gotta wait until the election. And then when it was raised after the election, the court said there was no standing. So basically the message from the federal court is we don't want to have anything to do with this, But then who decides

the constitutionality of it? I mean, it's it's very very frustrating. And uh here, I mean here, here are the practical things that can be done in the states where we have Republican and legislatures. They should pass laws now changing the rules to fit the problems we had in this election. They should do away with general mail in voting. They should continue with absentee voting, but under very strict rules like we used to have in the past. And the

state legislation should pass these laws. In in uh democratic states, I guess the governors will veto them. In Republican states, they should get through and then we can go to court and we can say that the rules are supposed to be set by the legislature and the governors or the or the step secretaries. They have tried to take that power away and try to and try to go through those cases. You know, as soon as they do

it before elections. It's really more pertinent, however, to the presidential election, because that's where the state legislature has the sole power to set the rules. And this should now get straightened out. Every legislature should realize by keeping up with this this massive four million mail in ballots, we're just leaving it open to anybody to cheat either side. It just makes no sense. Every country, seven out of

ten countries have done away with it. The other the other just have absentee ballotings now, but when we come back, I want to discuss how Donald Trump changed the Republican Party in the future. The GOP will be back in a second. Now switching gears, Mr Mayor, Is the GOP now the Party of Trump? Sure? Absolutely. I mean when you look at when you expend the Party of Trump for the last five four or five years, right, I mean, he's never been below favorable rating by Republicans. Sometimes in

I know, there's that very vocal group. You know that the Lincoln Project represented the vocal group of Republican anti Trumpers. But I mean when you look at the polls, the polling that makes up you know, less than of the of the Republican Party. I mean, he always had a much stronger hold on the Republican Party then for example Hilary of Biden. Their numbers as Democrats are not nearly as strong as his. So he has sinitely the leader of the party. I mean just about more than half

of the members of the party. And say if he decided to leave, they go with him. Yeah. I saw that recently, and that that that's what bringing me to this question, because you know, like you mentioned a Lincoln Project for example, Trump has been a consistent conservative for the most part in terms of policy. I don't think anybody can question that. Um. The rhetoric, though, is another consideration for a lot of people, and we know that we've seen that. I think back to uh that last

not even a last debate, two debates ago. I guess that was with Chris Wallace when he asked if he was going to denounce white supremacy and the Proud Boys, and he said, of course I will. That's what he said. And you said, in a number of times, he's announced white supremacy a number of times, and that's fine, that's great.

But then he said, stand down, but stand by. So there's things that have come up where people are kind of scratch their head and they're they're saying, you know, within Republican circles, hey, if it was somebody on the other side, we will be going after them and condemning them. So as President Trump learned some lessons from those experiences that he had, well, I don't know, you know, one of the problems in analyzing President Trump is the unbelievable

scrutiny that they put on his words. And I I've once put together a list of all of the times that he condemned white racism, white supremacy, something about almost a hundred times. And maybe he doesn't use the same words all the time, So to you, there's the words differently. I don't know. I really don't know how you solve the problem. I mean, you can't just say the thing the same way all the time. Here's what I can tell you. I've known the man for thirty years and

the idea that he's a racist is ridiculous. I mean, it's not not even close to He's about as not a racist as anybody I know. He's He's he is clearly a guy who judges people as people. Even in his personal life. He's got friends of you know, the joke used to be among his golf buddies. Trump has no caller problems. The only caller he really prefers is green.

When he was a business, if you were a black guy or a Chinese guy, or a white guy or a woman, or you can make money, He's gonna be a partner if you're screw up, no matter who you were. He wasn't too happy with it, that's all. But he's the guy, the guy, So sometimes sometimes appartularly the beginning. He would have trouble with the new language, you know, the woke language. We have words. He was supposed to say them certain ways, and we don't say him exactly

the right way. We get accused of being a homophobe or something else, or something else or something else. I don't think he he understood that language. It kind of got used to it after a while. But but it was really the desire to try to rip him apart. If you look at if you look at Biden, the things that Biden has said, you can make a much better case that bides the racist well. And we we we can definitely go into that because I don't disagree.

Now my question to you, Mr Mayor, do you condemn all forms of white supremacy and hate no matter where it exists? Of course, I just condemn all forms of racism. I consider that racist, and that's what President Trump should do. That's right there. I can damn all forms and that will be it. Who cares about what these the phil still consider themselves the most woke are the ones who

are truly asleep. These are these are walking zombies in a lot of cases, this this woke trash it's it's it's it's democratic talking points being pushed left and right, and what you realized in from a lot of these Democrats, especially these white liberals, they're sometimes the most racist people you can find. So I'm not confused about that at all.

I just want to make sure when we're talking about President Trump and and I've been a lot of his policies have been so positively impactful for me and my family, and I think, hey, from a policy standpoint, has been the most impactful, especially for African Americans. From a policy standpoint, the rhetoric doesn't always add up, but the policy does, so I'd rather go with policy over rhetoric. In your

point on Joe Biden was absolutely absolutely spot on. I mean, this guy, if you don't vote for me, then you ain't black, and a number of other comments that he's made over the core to this what forty fifty years in office, it paints a very bleak picture and one that if Democrats, if you take the democratic label off of them and made him a Republican, they would be calling him a racist all day long. So I'm not confused about that. No, I don't, and I don't know.

I'm not please, I'm not calling him a racers. I don't I don't like doing I don't calling anybody that. I'm just telling you, if you wanted to take his words and play with them, there's a lot more there than there is probably for almost anybody else. You know, all through the years he's made comments. But I mean, Joe, I don't know what's wrong with Joe now, but Joe has never been the clearest guy, honestly, the brightest guy. So I attributed to not the way he feels. But

he makes mistakes, big ones. Yeah, no question about that. And now he's been in office for a little over a month. What do you make of his presidency so far? Give him a letter grade idea? I mean it's been a I don't even think it's it's been a presidency by executive order. I mean he signed like fifty or more executive orders. Most of those things are supposed to be submitted to Congress so we can debate them, and the left wing media lets them get away with it.

It's almost acting like, you know, we got one. We only have one branch of government him and he just signs these things all of a sudden. Eleven thousand jobs are gone and nobody can get to discuss the talk about it. Then, Uh, the Paris Climate Accords, no discussion of whether China and India are gonna have to live by those standards. So we just gave him a trillion dollar break, no discussion of it. I thought we were

a democracy. And the thing that amazes me the most Chatti is that that the press doesn't pick these things up. If Trump had come into off signed fifty executive orders doing the same thing, but in the other direction, they would have they would have impeached him, right then, right, they say, get the time of a dictator. You just became a dictator. Yeah, absolutely, no question about that. What do you think about his planning to legalize eleven million people?

Are these individuals that Democrats hope to make voters that they can continue to win every election without any doubt? I think I think the I think it is quite clear, even clearer than it ever has been for me, that this whole immigration policy of the Democrats is purely a political policy. I don't think it has anything to do with the good of the country. It has to do with how can we maintain control, how can we get more votes, how can we make more people dependent so

they have to vote for us. Why would you take eleven thousand, eleven million people, even even the ones that are productive and doing a good job, but I mean a lot of them are, a lot aren't. But the minute you do that, you're gonna encourage another eleven million people of come plus plus. We're telling people, if you come here illegally, will pay your health insurance. I mean, the people are aligning up the thousands in Nicaragua, in Central America, We're gonna pay come to America, will pay

your health insurance. I mean, I don't get it. It has to be a political strategy. I don't know how we pay for it. We've got a tremendous debt. Health insurance is normously expensive, and we're gonna pay for people that just come come here illegally. They just walk in and say, give me my health health program. I don't understand how dash anything other than a crash political move to add up the Democrat vote as much as possible.

And I'm fully supportive of Dreamers being taken care of, which is what you know, people that come in no fault of their own, which is what President Trump tried to do. But Democrats wanted to use it as a wedge issue for the election, so they never made a deal on it. Um, do you believe that number is truly eleven million? Or is it much more than that? Because that eleven million number has been consistent for what five eight years? Is something beyond that? It has been

a long time they've been saying eleven million. I you know, Look, how do I know? And how do they know? Right? Let me, I'll give you one thing about the election. Think about this in Arizona, which Biden on paper theoretically won by eleven eleven thousand votes, which is nothing right, eleven thousand votes. They do not account for any illegal immigrant voting. Now, Arizona has a large illegal population. Given

where it is, right, we know that. You mean, none of them voted, not a single one, and they never bought them to check. Part of the lawsuit there was to get them to check. So there were estimates done, but they're just estimates. Now, this is not evidence. These are estimates that there were thirty or forty thousand that voted, but they never went back and checked. So, I mean,

that's the danger that you that you create. You have illegal people here, some of them do vote and it kind of cancels out the vote of people who were citizens, and that's not fair. Mm hmm. Did this I think we regularized or sect as early nineties something like four or five million people and the number then was that

they were six million the illegals. Well, we did that and then it doubled to twelve min So even if it is twelve million, if we do it again in ten years a little bit twenty minute, how do we how do we take care of the people that here? If we do that, Yeah, especially during the pandemic, it didn't make sense for for the country to be sending billions and dollars to other countries when we got poor

people here. That we need to take care of our middle class folks who may become poor because of states like California and New York. Uh that I have shut down business and caused them to go into bankruptcy. You know, we'll forgive your student loans. Then basically we're just people take for all of your college education to everybody in

the country. So what should the gop P do to to bring people back into the party, To bring people back into the Republican Party, People like New Gingwich advocated during the Georgia special runoffs, uh that Mitch McConnell should have sent into two thousand dollar checks. Of course he didn't, and people like nude and actually President Trump had said that's part of the reason why we lost Georgia. Do you agree with that assessment? And what can we do

to bring people back into the vote. Yeah, I think. I mean, we're talking about dude, it's I know, it's a formula that everyone talks about and but it was. But he did it brilliantly in taking over the Congress, the House when when we didn't have it for a couple of generations. That is, we we told the people the Contract with America. We told the people what are big, big, sprawling party stands for. And when Nute got into office, he tried to do it. He didn't do all of it,

but he tried to do all of it. Same thing with Donald Trump. He told the people what he was gonna do. He basically almost did all except the points they blocked, and had he been re elected, he would have done the rest of it. I think that's I think that's the best way to run for office. We should sit out as a party with the President the president's died, because he's the leader, and we should set out a group of principles once we think of the most important and say this is what we're gonna do

for the country. If you like it, come and join us. Let's take over the House and Senate. Obviously, things like let's get control of immigration, let's have control of our borders. Let's let's make certain that we get taxes down to the lowest possible number, not the highest possible number. And there are a lot of differences between us. I think I think we're gonna end up with a very big

difference over Iran in the Iran Agreement. But we could set out eight or ten principles like that around which people can see that our party is the party they agree with. I think that would be the best thing that we could do over the next year or so. We don't have to do it exactly the way New

did it. Issues have changed, but that was a very useful approach for for New and in a way it was a very useful approach for Trump in fifteen and sixteen, where he laid out what he was going to do under the under the symbol of make America great Again, America first write out what he was gonna do. He came into office, he tried to do it, and he

did most of them. Okay. And in speaking of your point at immigration, you just mentioned people like and Coulter has said part of the reason that Trump, she believed Trump lost is because he didn't finish out the wall like uh, he said that he would. Is that a part of the two term approach or should he have gotten it done in one term. I don't think anybody held against him the fact that he They saw the

opposition that he had to it. Ronal Ray I worked for Ronald Reagan, and he taught me this, nobody's gonna get angry at you if you promise something and you try your hardest to do it and they stop you, as long as you keep adding and you don't give up. So he tried everything he good to get that wall done, including that whole deal over dreamers, and the whole idea was you give me the wall, I'll give you what

you want. I'll let you, I'll let you take care of the people that are here in a generous way as long as I can make sure a lot of new people don't come in and bankrupt us or create problems for us. I mean that. I mean, plus, you didn't get a lot of the wall done. And I have no doubt if you gave him four more years he would get it done. But you can never get done all the things you want to do. I mean, I became mayor on a set of principles that I

want to accomplish. In some areas I accomplished much more than I I thought i'd ever do. In some areas I wasn't able to do it. I couldn't get to support. But are you honest with people? This is what I'm gonna do. Try to do it, and I think Ronald Reagan used to say, if you can get a seven,

you're very, very successful. That's interesting. Let's pause for a quick break now, but when we come back, want to ask you about your time as mayor, how the crime replummeted during your tenure, and your thoughts on stopping for as back in a moment. It turned out a law and order, an issue that you're intimately familiar with as as an attorney and of course as the mayor who cleaned up the streets to New York. Last year, murder

rates skyrocketed across the country. In fact, according to the FBI, that was twenty nine percent increase in murders nationwide over the first nine months compared to the same period in twenty nineteen. And according to a study from the National Commission of COVID nineteen in Criminal Justice, homicide rates jumped by thirty from twenty nineteen, and some of America's major cities the increase was much higher. Of course, you know a lot about what what has happened in New York.

What do you think caused this surge? Was it COVID, Was police budgets decreased? It should be just the op when we've had when we've had like um, major catastrophes and things, crime goes down. People are too the people are too consumed with it or crime crimes should have gone down. In fact, other crimes did go down. But the increase in violence I think has to do with the changes that we made in the laws and the

approach that we took. I know my state and city the best, right because I reduced crime in New York more than any other mayor ever. So it's something I know about. Basically, we have a increase in homicide, increase in shootings. We never have had anything like that before. That's a record. And the reason is the governor, Governor Cuomo passed and no bail law. So we probably had eight nine thousand more criminals on the street than we should and the mayor used COVID as an excuse to

empty our prisons. So we got probably twenty criminals on the street that shouldn't be there, and they're going around, they're making our subways. Subway ridership is down sev and subway crime violent crime is up like thirty or forty percent per capita. That's ridiculous. But uh, and then and then you have in a lot of these cities, you have sorrow selected district attorneys. Don't put anybody in jail. Let him out of jail. You look at look at Chicago.

Every weekend you get you get fatality numbers like we're in a war. You get ten people, that, fifteen people that, twenty people there. And you got a district attorney there who's you know, left of left of left. He's a pro criminal rights district attorney. So who's representing the people. This is a political problem. It's a problem that comes out of political policies of the Democrat Party that has become enormously accommodating criminals, criminals rights, not putting anybody in

jail anymore, letting him out of jail very soon. And then a police to police departments that are completely demoralized, that fielded they can't take action because whatever they do is going to be misunderstood and used against them. Now, you were incredibly successful as mayor of New York you, Lord Crown, You introduced crime stat um. You also continued enhancement of police techniques, one of them being stopping frisk.

And Michael Bloomberg, who succeeded you as mayor, he really pushed forth with stopping frisk, and a lot of folks have had issues with that, and I'm talking specifically about Michael Bloomberg. They had issues when you did it as well. But Fox News Business Hols Charles Paine said, Um, just last year, he said, Um, this is an example of

Michael Bloomberg stopping first policy. He thinks that it's a particular displaying disdain for African Americans and he doesn't want to see his child be stopped by the police for no reason at all, quote unquote, so to speak. So quotunately for you, do you steal supported stopping frisk or No? I do, But I mean I I support it the way I did it, not the way he did it. The differences I started it. I started it with with the Bill Bratton. It was very successful in reducing murder.

We reduced murder. It's not the only thing we did, but we reduced murder by sixties. But we only UH the highest number I ever had in any given year was under a hundred thousands. What happened is that Mike used it way too much. They were up to six hundred thousand. So think about that. I mean, six thousand people stopped in frisk. You're gonna make a lot more mistakes, maybe the differences, and I you know, I think Mike

did basically a good job as mayor. I don't criticize him a lot, but I do think they let it get out of control. Stopping frisk is an application of the Terry case. You have to be very very strict about having reasonable suspicion. You have to record it, you have to write it down, and you've got to discipline it. And we did that. And I'll tell you our policy was reviewed by UH Janet Reno and and uh get any attorney general holder, and they found that it was constitutional.

Over the last year I was in office, because that Justice Farmer wanted to bring a case against us, and I asked to see them, and I spent two hours and I showed them how we did it, and they agreed and didn't bring the case because we had very, very detailed records of legitimate reasonable suspicion. If you do it with six thousand people, you're gonna make a lot of mistakes. And that was the problem. A lot of people were stopped and they didn't have a gun, they

didn't have drugs. I think they were down to something like ten or five percent actually had something that's that gets stopped without anything. So in essence, by overdoing it, they really did a lot of harm to a good practice. And the New York Times reported that between two thousand and four and between twelve point four four point four three million people were stopped about those were black and Hispanic people, and as you mentioned, they were stopped in

release with no officer funding anything. So I get your point. I love to jump into that conversation with you again in the future. Know that we only hate you for a short period of time and you're very very busy man. Thank you so much for joining out Loud with Joan don't call about this to me. Thank you absolutely, Thank you to Ruby Giuniani for a great interview. If you're enjoying the show, please leave us a review and rate

us with five stars on Apple Podcast. If you have any questions for me, please email me at outlout of Ginger Street, sixt dot com and I'll try to answer them in our future episodes. You can also find me on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and parlor at Giano Caldwell. If you're interested in learning more about my story, please pick up a copy of my best selling book title Taken for Granted, How Conservatism Can Win Back to the Americans

that Liberalism failed. Special Things star our producer John Cassio, researcher Aaron Kleman, and executive producers Debbie Myers and speaker New Gingrich, all part of the Gingers three sixty network.