Post Glasto Double Drop: Bob Vylan & the Rage Machine

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Glastonbury is a unique thing in British culture where stuff that the corporatised media doesn't normally cover is available and it's broadcast and it's brought up a lot of things. I'm joined today by... Topher Taylor, who is a regular on the show. is here co-presenting quite a lot of episodes with me and has over the last few years. Topher Taylor also knows Bob Villain. So we'll be getting that insight as to whether the person we saw on telly the other day...

how that matches up with the person that Topher Taylor knows. And by means of explanation as to how certain sections of the media are dealing with this, here is GB News' output over the course of the last 24 hours. BBC stopped short of apologising for its... Glastonbury Horror Show. I know some viewers at home have asked for the clip not to be played again on television, but I believe sunlight is actually the best disinfectant. And personally, I'm not in the game of censorship.

IDF DEATH! Bob Villain goes on stage at Glastonbury, shouts, death, death to the IDF, several times, hasn't been arrested yet. Lucy Connolly, however, sentenced to two years and seven months, for publishing the written material inciting racial hatred. Yesterday we were treated to an utter disgrace of a performance in Glastonbury by a person who will now...

who, until now, I'd actually never heard of. I'm really glad that this has happened because it's giving us an opportunity to expose the IDF and say, what is the IDF? The IDF is a monstrous imperialist army that has killed over 100 people. 100,000 Palestinians on behalf of Israel, and it is committing barbaric acts every single day.

We did an episode yesterday, me and Nick. It was our immediate, it was recorded on Sunday in the afternoon. It was our immediate take on what had gone on over the weekend at Glastonbury. Takeaways being at that point, kneecap, we thought there'd be more of a pushback again. but obviously the fallout from Bob Villan's performance on West Holt's it shut down West Holt's kneecap shut down West Holt's like

These were the things that people wanted to see, and this is not what Glastonbury is all about. I think it's worrying when we start to police art. What's the point of being a... fucking musician if you can't write and express the things you want to express. That's the whole point.

people need to connect with you that's the whole point of art well what we said yesterday my take on this at the moment is that sometimes at the moment we can't say stuff because we're being stopped from saying you know the way the right goes on about oh it's free speech and then when we do free speech they lose their shit they're the biggest fucking pussy hole snowflakes and nothing wrong with pussy hole by the way but I mean everything I get like you can't

Even things I've submitted for articles and stuff, you can't say that because, like, fuck you, I can say it. Of course I can say it. Like, why can't I express myself? I'm not trying to hurt anyone.

But when you write something down now, nowadays, in the current environment, when something's written down, it's kind of, it's official, it's binary, it is or it isn't because it's written down, or you say it, or you do a post on it that outright says it, but ours is... different art is nuanced performance is nuanced and this means that glastonbury has become the only place that people can really um express the stuff that's actually going on in the world that's not curated by three

billionaires who control everything. And I think that's why you've seen such a... I've just sent you the front covers of the newspapers today, and I'm going to just go through them all. The Mail. Now Arrest Punk Band, who's... who led death to Israelis' chant at Glastonbury. That was not what was said. I'm not going to say what was said, but that's not what was said. It was an anti-Israeli army chant. PM, no excuse for BBC Hay, Daily Mail saying BBC chiefs should face...

But every single one of the right wing, all of the right wing... media is losing its shit about this and this is because the people that control that narrative have lost control of the national narrative when stuff like this happens because Glastonbury

That is, people say it's just media types and I don't think it is, that more Scousers at Glastonbury than any event I've ever gone to. It's full of young people, it's full, it is actually what this country is and not the narrative that they spin in there. their world, and they can't cope, and they say, ban them, lock them up, and it's like, well, who's the fucking, who are the snowflakes now?

Exactly. Just for the listener, Connolly is referencing. Do you remember that woman who was on Facebook inciting hate saying they should burn down hotels? Sorry, that is who they mean by Connolly. Yeah, it's Lucy Connolly and the right just love to... She was literally inciting violence when they were trying to burn down a hotel and murder people. That was literally happening there and then. The woman attempted murders. I don't think I've ever been as angry in my life as I was that day.

And they're trying to say that there's a two-tier system, aren't they, where she gets treated one way and Bob Villan can go on stage at Glastonbury and say something completely different. And I think the context is totally different with both of them. And they're trying to very cutely alongside...

because I had two different issues there and turned them into one. Do you think people believe it? Unfortunately, I do. I think that we have now... I mean, we, not me, we being general population, we have... algorithms and propaganda has cultivated a cult-like mindset where you can literally inform people of what they think and what their viewpoint is. And there's no critical thinking applied. It's just, oh, these people are...

hateful. They're a punk band. And let's be honest, I mean, let's look at the way the UK is at the minute. These are two black punk guys. The visuals pay in so much to what people want to dislike. So that helps as well. So there's the propaganda plus making, you know, illusions because there's like two, in my opinion, beautiful men who express themselves honestly. And I think that...

A lot of people are just really quite angry that a black man dares to speak out against the system, which is the whole point of punk anyway. So I don't know where people are. I mean, I'm wearing a Sex Pistols shirt right now that I bought when I was 14. It still fits, by the way. But that's the whole point of punk is to go against the system.

The whole point of Glastonbury is that kind of thing as well, isn't it? People are kind of missing the point. I had an argument with a family member about it last night and they were saying, oh, but it's Glastonbury. These people have paid a lot of money. These people paid money knowing that kneecap were going to be performing.

Yeah, what are they saying? That they shouldn't have done this because people have paid lots of money to see them? I don't get the narrative there. But they knew that kneecap were performing, so surely if anyone was pro-Israel, I'm pretty sure that they wouldn't be able to glass and breathe once kneecap were announced. Because surely that is the biggest alliance with pro-Palestinian liberation.

Did you see the kneecap performance? All I could find was about two minutes on the BBC. Did you see any more than that? I'm so lucky. Remember that there's a woman that's gone viral. I think she's called Rachel. In Wales. Rachel in Wales and she put it on TikTok. My algorithm really treated me well. I got a pop-up.

Did you? Yeah, obviously then, because obviously I'm Irish and I'm obviously very political, so my algorithm is very Irish all the time. And about 4 million people were descended on this one account and they must have gone, we're just going to go completely viral in the UK.

okay, send out a push notification to everyone. I love her. And she got like, they've tweeted her like now, or I think they've commented on her TikTok. It's either a TikTok, I don't know, I'm old, but they basically said you're going to get free tickets. So contact us. I like her. But yeah, I saw it and they were amazing. I like their music anyway, not just because of their political stance. I love their production. It's very unusual.

People are very cynical about their music, but it's unusual. They're very progressive. It's really progressive. It's a side to Ireland. It's a side to that entire identity that we don't get to see very often. A lot of the sort of... The corporate media kind of really doesn't know. how to react to kneecap because it's so, it's provocative, isn't it? It's the Irish flag on the balaclava and then taking that narrative and plugging it into a sort of global narrative.

Yeah. It's so powerful, isn't it? I just think they're so impressive. I think that there's so many, I'm lucky. I mean, I grew up in Southeast London, but I grew up with lots of Irish people because of my family. So obviously, you know, the community comes together.

One of my closest best friends from childhood is Katrina and her parents are from Belfast. And they grew up during the Troubles and I got such an intense education on it as a child. And I appreciate how... confusing it is and how difficult it is to get like when you're when you're researching topics like this it's difficult because you don't know what to trust yeah so anyone listening my advice would be there's an instagram page it's a girl that i love

is at the Belfast shooter. Follow her and just click through. And also there's another one called Tanistry, which is really great. So you can kind of get a really honest... What's the word? I'm trying to think. Basically, you can learn about Irish history without it being UK, England washed. Because my education as a child was very that and I didn't know. It's very embarrassing. Same, same, yeah, yeah. I mean, I think that, like, in the 1970s and 1980s, Irish people were treated in...

were all treated like anything that had gone wrong politically was their fault, weren't they? Yeah. And that was kind of popular. That was the popular narrative as well. Yeah, I love that. I mean, my grandparents moved here. They moved from Cork to Camberwell in South London. When did they do that? five years after Windrush. So I think it was 1952 to 53. And my mom was born in 54. And the way they were treated by the British was awful.

My nan was searching for a job for so long and the only job she could get, this was like an educated, intelligent woman, the only job she could get was in a hearing aid factory, brown papering the packages.

It's funny that people were like, oh, everyone's talking about race. Everyone's talking about this. But when my grandparents came here, the community that welcomed them were the Caribbeans and the Africans. Because obviously there was a big community of it in South London. Obviously, Camberwell, Brixton, Stretton.

has a huge, you know, Caribbean African community. Yeah. And they're the people that welcome my family because there was such toxic anti-Irish sentiment and people, I think people roll their eyes when they hear this stuff. I saw a post the other day about stop posting no dogs, no blacks, no Irish. Why did someone say that? Why did someone say stop posting that?

Because they were saying that the equation of how Irish people and black people were treated is intellectually dishonest because black people were ultimately treated a lot worse, which is true.

but it's not referencing racism as a whole it's referencing a window in time yeah when those opinions were the opinions that were the popular opinions amongst kind of a lot of working people actually yeah and I understand obviously I understand parts of it because Irish people can assimilate because look at me I look you could look at my listen to my voice and look at me I look like I could be British yeah

I'm not by DNA or by culturally, but yeah. Irish people are one of the original sort of diasporas, aren't they? You've got the black diaspora, black people dispersed all over the earth because of...

colonialism and all that. You've got the Jewish diaspora dispersed all over the world as a result of pogroms and the Holocaust and all the recent political activities that have gone on. And then, yeah, you've got the Irish diaspora definitely and they're millions strong across the United States and the UK. the English-speaking world. And so there's definitely an Irish national identity in a way that some English people sometimes overlook.

in a way that is so uniquely English, like, that we're like, really, they've got that? And we're like, yeah, because, like, I say this as an English person. The original people to be systematically oppressed and starved before a lot of the activities of the British Empire were the Irish people who were systematically starved and subjugated.

and colonised and the Irish experience is really close to a lot of experiences that you hear generally around that narrative yeah and I see a lot of people sorry my phone just started to play something a lot of people don't know about You know, people just call it the potato flour and it's not that simplistic at all. It was horrific what they did. And when you, when you trace my family line back.

it's really depressing because you, you reach this like point where it's just like, you can, you can kind of clock where it happened. Yeah. And you know, there is, there was, and one thing I just want to say, any listener who wants to research it or whatever is. Have a look at what the Turkish people did for the Irish. They were shipping food in.

Is that right? I didn't know that. Yeah, the British were shipping food out. The British were exporting the food that there was so that they would starve the population. And a lot of people in the British political class did it because they wanted to reduce the Irish population because they thought that they'd...

They wanted rid of them. And so they were exporting the food as opposed to giving it to people who'd grown it. Yeah, and there was a very intentional, insufficient response from quite the British. In order to starve them as a nation, to push them. It was a genocide in my opinion, but the consequence was massive. I think around 2 million Irish people left Ireland. They moved to America, they moved to Britain.

etc um that's you know and then my family originally didn't um there are part there are like people in my bloodline who did but my family would like People in my family were lucky enough to kind of survive it. It was very depressing. Well, the British identity and the idea that a lot of English people are still kind of like, well, what was the problem? Who haven't thought for one moment about how we've treated our slightly smaller neighbour.

I think then people are like, oh, move on, get over it. But then when you're telling a generation of people who've grown up hearing that this island was horrible to their ancestors, even if you think about it in a very simplistic way.

If you're not acknowledging it, you're then saying, fuck you. Do you know what I mean? So it's like this problem when we have these conversations, everyone's like, oh, just move on. It's like, well, that's not the point. The point is that it's nice to have things acknowledged. Because then we can feel like that our ancestors aren't, their memories aren't being pissed on. And yeah, I don't know. It's complicated, but I think a lot of it is willful ignorance. I think a lot of people, they just...

it's very easy to, to just go, I don't care or I don't like Irish people or I don't, but then they would, they want to go to Irish pub. But yeah, I love, I love knee cow. Yeah, that's where we started. We started at kneecap, and I think that the whole... Sorry, I've got a verbal diarrhea today. No, I think what's really good is the way... I think that's the whole point of kneecap, isn't it? It's like, I...

I knew it was going to be good. I hadn't listened to any kneecap until Glastonbury, when I've managed to see a bit to the set. So I went out my way to see it. And from what I can take from it, as well as being musically brilliant, it's also deliberately... dressed in that really kind of provocative way isn't it where it's like they will start that conversation around ah well that's that's

look like the balaclava thing is deliberately to start a conversation amongst british people around this sort of stuff and here we are like how many days later and we're doing the we're having that conversation because kneecap Implanted it firmly in the cultural narrative. That wouldn't have happened if we'd have just gone by the right-wing media narrative, which is that there's a guy from NICAP pulled out a Hezbollah flag.

at a gig in London and he's being done under terror offences for that, that would have been the sole focus of it. And instead we're having this conversation around what kneecap just represents.

Don't know how much you can or can't say, but Bob Villain, you have a personal connection there, don't you? Because you know them or one of them. I do, yeah. I know one of them, I won't say which one, but I'm pretending from personal experience. I'm not just saying obviously everyone comes out batting for their friends, but he is a wonderful human being.

very politically aligned with anything that's progressive, anything that helps the underdog. I've had lots and lots of conversations with him. The reason we initially became friends with him...

was because there was a lock-in at a bar in Soho, a punk bar that's now closed, unfortunately. And I was there because a lot of my friends are from that scene. And we sat until about, I think literally until it was daylight, just ranting and like talking for hours and hours about racism and homophobia and some of the similarities obviously there's not a lot there's not many but there are some and yeah he's a good person and anyone who's

wants to look them up or wants to listen to their music and maybe you're not used to listening to punk. One of their more melodic, easy entry songs is a song called Makes Me Violent. And I love that song so much. One of the easy entry songs is a song called Makes Me Violent. I know people think, oh, he would say that because obviously I do align myself with a lot of left politics, but he really is a really decent person. The point they were making is not...

about inciting violence against Jewish people as a whole. And I think anyone that wants to believe that, you're being intellectually dishonest. What he's saying is against the idea who, in my opinion, again, I'm not speaking on your behalf or anyone else's behalf. are a terrorist group who have absolutely decimated and tortured what they've done to that part of the world is unfathomable.

Bob Vinnin actually posted a video on Instagram earlier today, which is a comparison from Gaza a few years ago to today from drones. I've seen that, yeah. It's just... anyone who can look at that and then go, oh, but I don't know what's wrong with you, but I certainly don't want you on my dinner table. You know what I mean? I know it's a very nuanced topic and there's a lot of things to... I mean, how nuanced is it?

None of us are stupid and we know that you can't judge all Jewish people by the actions of the extremist elements within their government and within their military. The same way I wouldn't whip Muslim people when it comes to... Extremist organisations or Christian organisations. I don't judge all Catholics by the activities of the real IRA in the 90s. Do I?

it's it's just so frustrating like I had someone I had a close friend actually well not close close but someone I'm quite friendly with and I was actually with last weekend replied to my Instagram being like I can't believe you're sharing this anti-Semitic stuff. And I'm like, you know me well, right? You know my politics. You know where I stand. Respectfully, I don't care about anyone's religion. I respect it.

but I don't care. So I would never judge someone good or bad on their religion unless they were trying to shove it down my throat. I don't care. So to call me anti-Semitic, number one is incorrect, number two is intellectually dishonest. It's dishonest, yeah, yeah. I don't care. I don't value it. You don't care for far-right politics, and Israel has a far-right government. And that's how it manifests itself in Israeli society. It doesn't mean that...

all Israelis are represented by the government and it doesn't mean that all Jewish people are represented by the crimes that are going on there. The same way it doesn't mean that all Gazans are responsible for what happened. Does it? Yeah. But the thing is with gardens, all of them are being bombed.

And that's my take from it. Nothing within that is controversial, I don't think. And we can all see the proportionality in the response. Obviously, what happened in the beginning was horrifying. There were flowers left around Glastonbury to say people were at a music festival like you're at, and then they were... murdered and I felt horror and genuine horror and empathy and sympathy for them people but the response is in no way proportional

A thousand or so people died with what happened on October the 7th, and I'm not denying that, and it's truly awful. I wept reading some of the... but you can't justify it you cannot justify it by murdering minimum 55,000 people pretty much all of whom had nothing to do with that. That is, no sane person could disagree with what we've just said there. However, here we are justifying it. Yeah, this is the problem that everyone is being culted, and I think that people...

I know I say a lot of stuff that can sound sensationalist, and I do understand how that can be perceived, but people are being culted. People are being convinced that facts aren't facts and that we're going to ignore the obvious points in the room. And October 7th was horrific. I remember sitting there, funny enough, I'd stayed at my parents' house and I was watching it on the news of my dad and we were just like, oh my God, this is so bad.

Which thing, October the 7th? Yeah, because all the news was dropping in from Go to the Fest. It took 24 hours, didn't it? It took a day for it to become... When I had the first bit of information, I just remember thinking, this is going to change everything. But not even I appreciated how much it did change. Yeah, I can't remember which day it was. I think it...

And all I know is it was in the morning because I'd just woken up and I'd come downstairs and my parents would start watching the news. And I was like, oh my God, because you just knew what was going to happen. So it was horrific on multiple levels. And then we found out that someone from my friend group, I don't know her very well, her boyfriend was there. He was doing security and he was killed.

so it was obviously like a big topic like yeah and then you obviously that that uh you you were horrified by that i was horrified by that yeah so what more do you want and what we're clearly what us and everyone else is clearly bothered about is

just the mass murder of people that haven't actually done anything wrong. And what's controversial about that? I don't know. But it's very easy to dehumanise people who are brown, especially when they're Muslim. Yeah. And this is like, I mean, for... I don't know. I'm trying not to get too personal. I've dated a lot of men, obviously, in my life. I'm a whore. But one of my exes, the guy that, I mean, probably the love of my life, if we're being honest, he was Muslim.

I mean, he wasn't Middle Eastern, he's from Ghana, but the way that people used to talk about him and to him and you hear about the things that happened to these people, it's just… living daily lives it's just horrific and i don't know i think we're living in such a very very precarious timeline the only thing that's given me hope is that i'm starting to now realize that we see so much mass racism and mass anti-Islam stuff on social media.

but so much of it is actually bot farms. Yeah, or one person being amplified disproportionately because Elon Musk owns X, so he's just going to amplify everything that agrees with his perspective. It's as simple as that. It's like the flood the zone tactic, isn't it? Make people feel hopeless, convince them that the world thinks a certain way. But in reality, it's not like that.

It is. And I think things like Glastonbury proved that. We have a massive crowd of people and people are going, oh my God, I can't believe there's music. I'm like, well, anyone listening to this, anyone's going to argue about These people were a festival, like we said earlier. These people went to Glastonbury.

knowing that kneecap, there was so much publicity about the fact they were going to be there. Yeah, absolutely. You knew it was going to be political. I was there over, you know, when Brexit happened, the Brexit referendum happened the day before Glastonbury 2016. I remember because me and Steve drove from London. Gorgeous.

gorgeous day it was. Drove all the way from London, drove up the M4. I was so happy. We'd gone to Glastonbury, seen our mates, got there. We'd already done our postal vote, obviously voted in. Got there, went to bed, woke up at five in the morning. We got really...

pissed on the first night with our mates I woke up in our tent and Steve showed me clips with one bar of 4G on Twitter as it was at the time and he's going it's not looking good in the night waking me up and I was like leave it it'll be fine listen I've got a good feeling and we woke up and he

plays me David Dimbleby and it's fucking pissing it down there was mud the whole environment changed and the festival became an act of resistance we were watching Christine and the Queens like the really well known French kind of indie band and they're obviously singing bits in French. There was a really, they were waving pro EU flags on stage. People were genuinely in mourning.

And there was a real sense of, like... In a way, I've never felt, like, solidarity at Glastonbury that year. The next year was Jeremy Corbyn on the... the pyramid stage which shut down the pyramid stage I was in tears watching that it was Glastonbury creates them moments that have connected my group of friends for a long time given me and my husband memories that we treasure like politically and personally and that's what it's there for in this horrible world where we're all headed towards

world war three fascism's taken over you know corporatized media doesn't let you hear any form of other opinions glastonbury just sits there as like a bastion of fucking what is possible and it has mass appeal, and fucking, thank God it's there. And then they released a statement, didn't they? Bastards. They had to. They had to, the same way the Prime Minister's got to go through all the Prime Minister things, or what, like Donald Trump says.

And Bob Villain will probably end up being done for a public disorder offence. That's the game. I hope he makes lots of money. Sorry, just to add to what you're saying. He knew he was going to get into trouble. And I think people need to remember as well, the reason that they made such a point of doing it is because there was a fucking press.

press orchestra around the fact that BBC had said they were not going to display kneecaps performance that's why let's be honest that's the reason that this happened in the way that it did I bet you all the intention was put on kneecap and then Bob Dylan does this and they're like, we were just looking at the wrong place. I mean, listen, like I said, I know them personally, good people, kind hearts, hard workers.

They've built a career for themselves. They've turned a punk band, which is notoriously fucking difficult to get a reach anyway. Yes, yes, that's very true. They've got themselves signed. They're now, I think they have their own development record label as well. They're incredible. I think what they've achieved is amazing. Anyone that doesn't like them, fuck you. I don't like you. Right. Until next time on that bombshell. Thanks.

This is Outcast World, the global queer group chat. New episodes are dropping every single week and you can follow us on social media on Instagram and TikTok at thisisoutcastworld.