Fireside With The Underboss - "Framed Us For Murder, Asked Permission To Kill Him" - podcast episode cover

Fireside With The Underboss - "Framed Us For Murder, Asked Permission To Kill Him"

Sep 08, 202233 min
--:--
--:--
Download Metacast podcast app
Listen to this episode in Metacast mobile app
Don't just listen to podcasts. Learn from them with transcripts, summaries, and chapters for every episode. Skim, search, and bookmark insights. Learn more

Episode description

Sammy introduces us to a couple of new, and super dangerous, mafiosos: Dominick “Mimi” Scialo and Vincent “Jimmy” Rotondo. These wise guys are all tied together in a slew of different crimes including the Dunn brother case.

Transcript

He must have known the people who were going to talk to him. He stopped his car. He had some groceries, some fish from the fish market and on the passenger seat, and they opened up on him and shot him a whole bunch of times and killed him. Hey, guys, I got a story today that is phenomenal. I was talking about a guy, Jimmy Rotunda, who became the underboss of the Decavalcanti family. When I was starting to talk about him and his story, Peanuts asked me questions like who was

he and how did you know him? And it really woke me up to my first meeting with him and why it happened. So this is going to be a long, complicated story. You have to follow us closely. There's a lot of twists and turns in it. So how does this story start? Where do I start it? Jimmy Rotanda became the underbuss of the Cavalcanti family. One day when he was going home, he stopped his car.

He had a Lincoln that he used to drive. I know him very well, and you'll see why and how he must have known the people who were going to talk to him. He stopped his car. He had some groceries, some fish from the fish market on the passenger seat, and they opened up and shot him a whole bunch of times and killed him. It was an underboss. Me and John Gotti went to the funeral. John Riggy was the boss of the Decvalcanti family at that time, was at the funeral.

He took me and John on the site and he told us that he was super concerned if they could take out the under boss. I'm probably next. Really shooken up by this. A lot of people at the funeral. We talked to him on the site. John said, listen, don't worry about it. We got your back. The de Cavalcanti family don't have a commission seat. The five New York families have a seat. Each one of them have a seat. That's the commission. So we were going to represent him.

John was going to represent him at the commission investigate this hit. And he felt really comfortable with that. He already knew how close I was with Jimmy Rotunda because of a lot of things. And you'll see. We left the funeral, and I understand that John had a commission meeting. I wasn't there, but he had told the commission asked them who did this? Nobody seemed to know. It was obviously a sneak hit, could have been internal. We didn't know what it was. Nobody knew what it was, but

we were on god to try to find out who did this. So I'm gonna go back to when I met him and why and how, me my Gumbada, Alley Boy, and Louis Melito. I'm not going to get too in depth with this because you heard this story. We're indicted with a guy named Larry Martiri. None of us, including Larry Marty, supposedly at that time, said he knew anything about it. But later we found out when we were out on bail we were about to fight the case. It took

a long time. Then he knew everything about it. The witness, a guy named Michael Hardy, is the guy who talked about this whole case, how we all got indicted all for us. I refresh your recollection with Michael Hardy. He's the guy who would give He knew Louis Melito very well. He would give us stick ups. The story the hostage gone bed where the girl jumped on my chest and we went in and took this group. Michael he gave us that robber and many many more and me and Ali Boy would

commit them. So Michael Hardy's story was that he was in a pizzeria and Corney Allen and the case was that he sat down with Mimmi Scala, a captain, a very dangerous captain in the Colombo family, and these Dune brothers owed Mimi money and they didn't pay him. Some bullshit story like that. Supposedly, this is Michael Hardy's story that Louis Melito came into that meeting,

was called in by Mimmi. Mimmi said he was going to pay him money to have the Dune brothers killed, but not Both of them won and he gave his name. Michael Hardy tells Mimmy that Louise got a couple of guys around him, good friends of his that are shooters, Sammy the Bolt and Ali Boy. Como. This is on our indictment. Now, none of us knew what was going on. It was really hard to fight the case. I didn't think of a video about this too. I wound up beating

it. Then we come to find out why did he do this? Why did Michael Hardy do this? Michael Hardy is in prison on other charges. Some guy was banging his wife. He was on the lamb. He comes back in, knocks on the guy's door and shoots him four five times and kills him. He goes after this guy with Larry Marty, one of Larry

Marty's best friends, right hand man. He snatches him. He brings him in an apartment, ties him in a bad tub to the stop to the shower, tied up like this, turns the hot water on full blast. He wants information from him. He's beating him with a gun and he's being cooked with this hot water. The guy is screaming, moaning, crying. He says, I'm going to give you one more chance. It's a long barrel gun. He sticks the barrel up his ass all the way up.

The guy literally is fainting's passing out. He yanks the gun out and all his intestines or whatever it is, just rips him apart. Leaves him in there so badly beaten, burnt, bleeding from the rector. He leaves him for dead. The guy don't die. He survives, goes to the hospital. God knows how long he's in the hospital, but he tells Larry Martery. Larry Morty gets in touch with him, he's always had a connection with him, and tells him that he has a big score, that he needs

him, and he makes an appointment to meet him somewhere. Michael Hardy comes into that meeting. He's arrested by a slew of detectives. Were guns out. He got sucked into a meeting and Larry Mortey has actually set him up. It's ratting, and the guy who got tortured he's going to testify against them. Michael Hardy calls me from a prison and tells me I need your help. I know prison phones are monitored. I'm not stupid, so I

said, how could I help you? And he says, I need you to kill Larry Morty and go after the kid's name, the guys and the other guy's name, Molly Torture. I said, listen, I have no idea what the fuck you're talking about. I don't do stupid shit like that. You must be playing right, you're joking with me. I want to talk into that microphone. I'm gonna show I have nothing to do in out that. I don't know what he's talking about. I know it's being taped.

So I'm not going to just hang up on him. So I'm saying, listen, I would help you. But I don't even know what you're talking about, and I don't do things like that, Bro, I don't know why you would say that to me. He's talking a little bit more. I talked a little bit more, and then I said hello, Hello, Hello, and I hang up so they could keep that tape and stick it up in their ass whoever's listening on the other But I called Louis Melito an alley boy, and I tell both of them, this guy lost his

mind. Bro. This is what he told me on the phone in the prison, on the fucking tape. Don't answer the phone if he calls now we were doing robberies with him, don't do it. Something's radically wrong for him to talk like that. Make your wife answer the phone, both of them. I'm tone, and if it's him, all she's got to do is say, listen, he's not home and hang up on him. Unbeknownst to me, one of our phones is bugged. We didn't say nothing wrong.

I didn't say nothing wrong. So nobody's gonna get pinched, nobody's gonna get hurt. But here's what the cops do. They take that tape, they bring it to him and they show him this tape. Oh, this fucking Sammy. I called him up for helpe, and look, he's double cross at me. He's mad at me, Louis and Ali Bud. So he makes up this fictitious story to get out of prison. Now he cooperates with the government that it's not the government's a state it was a state case,

and tells him this fictitious story. It took a long time to find this all out, about this meeting and about the dumb brothers. Now he also puts Mimi in it. Mimmy's this powerful, vicious captain in the Colombo family. So when I told this story, I never told you about Mimmy, But I'm telling you about him now he's on my indictment. So four of us are on this indictment, not just me. Ali Boy and Louie were in jail, but Mammy wasn't in jail. God knows where he was

in prison. Me, Louie and Ali Boy talked every time Mammy gets arrested, and he's got a case before he goes to trial. His co defenders just seemed to disappear, he gets rid of them, he has a better chance at a case he kills them. That just going on the lamb. That God, he's got a habit of doing that. We knew that, We talked about it. What are we gonna do, Bro, Not only we don't know about this case, but this fucking guy, we can't just sit around, bro, really disappear. So we agreed in prison. As

soon as we get out, we're gonna make him disappear. We're gonna reverse this. We're not gonna wait to be killed because he don't trust us. Fuck him, We're gonna kill him. We make a pack amongst the three of us, and we're gonna kill him. Unbeknownst to us because of his viciousness and killing people on the record off the record, the Colombo family had already killed him before the indictment, and he was missing, so his days

of making people missing, he became missing unbeknownst to us. At that point. We will concerned when we got out, where is he? What is he thinking? We got a nudge. He ain't thinking nothing, Bro, He's missing. He ain't coming back. Music twer is now. All we had to do is fight a state case. That we had no fucking clue what went on. We had fifty two court appearances. They said, separated

the trials. Larry Montery went our trial alone, and then they were gonna have a trial with me, Ali Boy and Louis leto two separate trials. Larry beat the case, had money high, asked lawyers. He beat the case. We were on there and we beat the case. But we knew all the details, like I'm telling you now. Back then, I knew it like I know it right now. Case over. My Gumbada Alley Boy was with the Genevese people. He was with this guy, Joey Mann was

a made guy. My Gumbardo wasn't made. And Joey Man's captain. I forgot his name. This is in seventy three, seventy four, some place. I forgot his name. They took him down. He was replaced with a guy named Tommy Lombardo, who took became the captain. When he died, Sally Doggs became the captain. But that's all not that important. What is important is the case is over. We celebrate. Ali Boys got to go to his people. Me and Louis Belito in the Gambino family. We're

gonna go to Tatto. Toto's super happy we beat this case. I mean, he did everything to help us. He was sick that we were on this fucking drug, and he knew and leaved every minute of it that we didn't know what the fuck was going on. There was no reason for us to hide from him. We did work, there was no reason to hide, and he was super happy. So me and Louis met with him and we said, listen, case over, everybody's happy. We tell him the

whole entire story were told to him in stages. He knew in different pieces. We want to kill Labrymntery. He may believe he didn't know what was going on. He set the guy up with his guy. We know all the whole story. If he would have and he never told us, he would have never took We would have found been found guilty. We would have been life without parole with the state and never even knew why. We want to kill him. Who's he with? He's with the de Cavalcanti family.

He's with this guy, his name is Danny Nunziato. Him and this guy Corky. Remember Corky. I did a thing about him a while ago. Corky wasn't a big guy at that point, but he was a very powerful guy. He was Danny Nunziato's brother in law. So Totto's gonna call for a sitdown. The Genevese people get in touch with Totto because of Alley Boy. We'll give you the lead. Whatever you come to an agreement with them, I'm in it. If you get you want to usually gonna get wind

them sit down and kill this guy. I'll give Alley Boy permission to work with Sammy and Louis. Ali Boy is with us now in these conversations, and Tato's heading in. Danny Nunziato is a may guy. Tattle's a captain. So Danny's gonna come down with his captain. Who is his captain, Jimmy will Tardler. At that time, he wasn't the underboss. He was a captain, and he came down real nice guy, great guy, great reputation. Gentlemen. Tyler and them talk. There isn't enough evidence for us

to kill him. Their argument is he stood up. He's not a rat. He stood up, he went to trial. He didn't set him up. That's a lie. Maybe the kid who got snatched, did it. He's blaming, always blaming somebody else. Anyway, we lose the sit down, we lose the decision. Tyler agrees, he is went through hell. It's over. Let's end it. Stay away from this lobry mantea. The answer is no. Told my gumba Allei boy, and go back and talk to your people and tell him that's what I ruled for us. Alley Boy

said he here. They already agree. Whatever you're ruling is they about, they'll abide by it. So I'm not gonna be hon it either. And that's how I met Jimmy Rotunda. That's the whole story leading up to Jimmy rotunda is death. But there's a little bit more after that. That was in seventy four and seventy six. I got made. I believe he was killed in eighty eight something like that. Within that time frame, me and

him became very friendly. As soon as he heard I got made, he sent for me, and he became He wasn't the captain, number was the under boss. Call me congratulations seventy six. These guys are good guys. Bro stood up. You did the right thing, and then you did the right thing asking for this guy's life. But you know, some things you know don't always go your way, and you took it like men. And

I told him that's why we're here, respective of life. And then I got a little stronger and started playing with unions and construction and all of these things. And he was very powerful with unions, the long Shoreman's Union. We had a good hunker at he had it in Jersey, and I became more and more powerful and more and more friendly with him. He had a concrete He had a company that was a concrete company in Coney Allen. We

the New York families controlled the concrete companies. You weren't allowed in from Jersey. You weren't allowed in. This guy was in Coney Allen with a small, little bullshit company. We allowed it to stay there. But you can't grow. You can't become one of the big guys. He wanted to become a little bit bigger. And he said, Sammy, could you help me with the whole group. You have the families and everybody. You're very strong

with Paul with the concrete. I don't want to become one of the big guys, my guy, but I would love for him to expand a little bit, and it's not really going to take anything off of anybody's plate. I liked them, and I said, Jimmy, let me think about it, let me see what I could do. I had a meeting with people from the Lokazi family, the Colombo family. Colombo family had pretty good relationships with so I said, listen, it's a good guy. It's a small

little company in Coney Island. I think it's actually part of bensonhist Brooklyn. I'll make him expand in Benson Heist Brooklyn, I'll make him expand. And people want to do a concrete job at sidewalk patio, small jobs. He won't bid big jobs. So it's really not taking nothing away from us a little bit maybe, And who's taken away from the most is me because I'm in Benson Heist so Be He'll be infringing on my turf a little bit,

and I don't mind. I think we should be. I convinced them that's the way you fail, Sammy, and you're gonna get right more than anybody else. It's not really hurt, you're gonna it was a little bit of the party crumbs to me, I felt. So they agreed. Paul was aware and Todd I was aware of what I was doing in my conversations at all at all times. They always were. I never did things off the record or things on my own. I went back to Paul and told them. Paul, they agreed, this is what I could do, and I

would make them expand a little bit. Small jobs. You're gonna hurt nobody, you know, and it'll be an hour area of my area. It'll be a little less to me, a little less to you. That's great, Sammy. I love that negotiation, the way you did it and handled it. The guy is an under boss, even though they're not under commission the guys are under boss. Great. Great, so I expanded. So

I had an ongoing relationship whatever. After Paul was gone, John became the boss and a lot of good things were done back and forth, and John appreciated that I have this real close, tight relationship with an under boss of another family. They became very close to us. Like I said, as soon as he was killed, he went right up John's behind, riggy. He was like our little puppy, good boy, nice boy. I don't want to belittle him, but that's what it is. That's what happened.

So John was happy, not only before he died, that I had a connection with them, a strong connection, but that we were if we needed help on the piers. We ran a good part of the piers, but Jersey and some peers, they ran stuff out there, so it was a help to us. So he liked all of those connects. But now he was dead. So that's how I know jim by Rotunda. His son was a made guy. He made him. He was a made guy after his

father's death. I became a little friendly with him, not too much, but a little bit, because I was close with his dad and he knew it. A while later he became a captain. So that's how I know Jim by Rotunda. His son was a mad guy. He made him. He was a made guy after his father's death. I became a little friendly with him, not too much, but a little bit because I was close with his dad and he knew it. A while later he became a captain.

A while after that he flipped and cooperated with the government and he left the life. Obviously him and this guy Vinnie Green. The story would become so complicated. Even the Weiss murder involves the Cavalcanti family and all stuff like that. I did videos on that, so I'm not gonna go in all of those areas. But I was going to do the small story with Jimmy Rotunda. I was going to tighten it up a little bit, but I thought it was interesting to tell the whole story. Now I very rarely check

myself, but I wanted to check. I did check. I looked at old newspapers and shiit. I looked at it and they're wrong. So I'm glad it will check because they're wrong. So Zaza is reading it to me and I said, no, no, didn't happened like that. She got a little frustrated. I got frustrated and says, listen to throw it away. I don't want to see it. They're wrong, Wikipedia and all these

fucking things. They're wrong. I'm telling you what happened. But she laughed and says, Sammy, if I want to know something, I ask you. I don't have to read newspapers or anything else. She's a great kid. She's in the other room, or I wouldn't call a great character. So we'll go to her head. She's got looks and everything else, and that's she's smart and now she's being compliment that we'll make her like peanuts. We'll have two of them. So one more thing I think you'll love to

know. When I went back to prison and in two thousand, February of two thousand, the ecstasy case. Some day old hear stories about that, I was in jail. I was in prison again in two thousand February two thousand, and I did almost eighteen years. Here's the craziest fucking thing in the world. Mail call. I get a letter. I had written a book already and everything. I get the letter and I opened it up. I am so so sorry for what I did to you. The way you

talked about me in your book. It just breaks my heart that what I did to you was so fucking wrong, but I was so mad. It's fucking Michael Hardy twenty something fucking years later or whatever, thirty years later, whatever it was, seventy four, seventy four, I'm getting indict until two thousand, eighty four, ninety four, twenty six years later, he's apologizing to me. If you're listening to this, Mike, that letter. I was infuriated, but I was in prison and I shot down with that letter.

And I had a chance to think. I accept your apology and I'm not managing no more. You made mistakes. I did things. I'm inde mistakes. I think everybody makes mistake at one point in their life. But I do respect that you sent me a fucking letter twenty six years later apologizing. That's incredible and I think it should be thrown into the story. And if you're listening to this video, Mike, I think the world ill. You're a tough guy. You did what you did. Don't send me no

more letters. I might get man right now. I'm not managed you. I really not. Okay. That's the end of the story. So if you like it, pressed like subscribe always tonight, above all nights. I want to get home and watch Families of the Mafia. A couple of good episodes coming up. I don't think I'm in them. There's a Russian guy. There's this guy, Billy. I knew his father while Bill, me and him was like this, And if he's listening, I want to tell

this story real quick. I'm going to add it on. This is how close I was with him. I went to a special breeder and I got a dog, a puppy. I wanted a rock waller. My wife wanted a rock waller, and I got this puppy, especially bred beautiful. I get the dog and I'm gonna surprise my wife and take it home, and I have an deportment with Billy well Bill, and I have the dog on a leash, little little guy, and it comes out, Oh my god, where did you get that dog? I got a friend of mine's a

breeder. Why I'm going crazy trying to get a dog? Right? I love this dog. He's got the dog's face. He's playing. The dog's tail is going crazy. Little tail's going crazy. They fell in love right in front of me. He says, could I buy it? I says, I don't think he has any more. He sold them all. He'll get you know more? Oh man, do you like him that much? Yeah? I'm a sucker for shit? Right that? Take the dog? You kid it? No, I'll get another one sometimes, take the dog,

Take them all. He told your kids, you listen to any other thing. Now. I know his son. He passed away a long time, but he was killed. It was gone a long time, and I know his son. He's act actually on this show. He tells me the story you gave it him. Yeah I did. I did. He said, You're not how happy he was. Yeah, he must have been super happy. You know what he names the dog, No, it's Sam. I thought it was a great story, all right, Audios

Transcript source: Provided by creator in RSS feed: download file
For the best experience, listen in Metacast app for iOS or Android