Approache production.
This is Our Little Lady, the story of a fifteen year old girl who police say took her own life nine years ago, and now the world is starting to believe what her parents have thought all along.
I remember Amanda just grabbing me and picking me up off the road and she said, you've got to go home, Jason, because she can't be here.
That Eden Westbrook did not take her own life. In the last seven days, so much has happened. We left you in the last episode with the revelations, the police say that they have spoken with the girl we've been calling Kate. Jason and Amanda received a letter back from the acting commander that said that he'd been advised that Kate had been spoken to last year. This was shocking new information information Jason and Amanda didn't know until this police response.
Blind away, Jay had no idea, had no stays. Did we feel or no that the police had spoken to Kate.
I want to say that we did know that there was an inspector looking into this in twenty twenty three, so we were aware, and you were aware that there was an inspector and he spoke to you, right Jason over.
The phone, And no official statements were taken by that inspector at the time.
Who why didn't he talk to the lady that was just recently come on the podcast by the way, thank you so very much for coming forward. Yeah, why wasn't she approached and spoken to? Why wasn't I approach and spoken to? Both of us were at the scene for some number of hours.
He did speak to Bobby Lee too, I believe, is that right?
Yeah, he spoke to Bobby Lee and the two friends that were with her on that day where Kate approached bobbyly at the park.
He did that again over the phone with no official statement, and then I don't believe anyone was called into any police station to do a formal statement.
From what we understand, and certainly from what Kim, the delivery driver that was first to spot Eden's body, what she said was that she had no further contact with police from six months after that Eden died.
Which is interesting because six months after Eden died, we had one of the confortable to add courage of Eden's investigation.
Come to our house asking.
For Eden's journal and get this Edan's phone, So we're figuring it's at the same time the Bridgewater Police got that witness in and asked about Eden's hand being tied up, so obviously something six.
Months into Paul.
Reynolds's investigation, it led to a question regarding.
Eden's journal, Eden's phone, and Eden's hands being tied up. Now that's alarming.
Amber Wilson from The Mercury in Hobart also covered the story about Kate being interviewed by police just last year.
Oh, that was a shock to me. So there were a few things that I found shocking about that. So the first thing was that it's taken so long to speak to Kate, and that when the police spoke to Kate, they haven't updated the Westbrooks as they've gone along. It seems like it was almost like a oh, and by the way, we did speak to her, and yet she's fine. Nothing to see here. But what we know from Kate's behavior after Eden's death was that something was amissed fair,
something was strange. The fact that the fact that her involvement could have been just pushed aside as something that wasn't important does seem really strange. Her behaviors after Eden says her interactions with other members of the Westbrooks family seem too absurd and too strange to be discounted as nothing. None of it lines up, does it, Jay? Not at all?
So this is the thing is that And I'm not saying that Kate was involved in Eden's death or wasn't involved in eden death, but it certainly seems like she's at least witnessed something because she's experienced what really looks like to be trauma symptoms afterwards.
Is it reasonable for Jason and Amanda to ask police, well, can we see what you asked? Can we know what you talked to Kate about? That seems fair and reasonable, given that they've been asking for nine years that police should at least speak with the girl at calling Kate.
I don't believe that police members from any force share that level of detail and interrogation with family members. But again, that brings us back to the point of an inquest. If we could bring the police officers in to give evidence and cross examined, then we could find out in a fair and impartial public space what they did ask Kate, what they didn't ask case, what their observations were of case.
Can we go back to the scene.
I'm still at the scene when the.
Officer calls a woman that may to call in the first place, telling her that there's no suspicious circumstance. I'm still at the scene and he hasn't.
Told me yet.
You know, we're talking at eight nine o'clock in the morning. She's back at visiar. She rings up the Saint Helen's police speaks to another constable who says, there's nothing suspicious. Now, if there's nothing suspicious, why the fuck is even still hanging at full view for the public to see. And the police are spreading to the witnesses that it's nothing suspicious.
And I'm still at the scene, and I'm being told.
What time, and this is like eight or nine am who come up with that conclusion? What the technical forensic specialists said? This is clear cut suicide. Everyone, Let's put out blinkers on and focus on writing it off as suicide.
As you can tell. And quite rightly, Jason and Amanda are upset with the fact they feel that Eden's case was deemed a suicide from the outset. I wanted to get back to the question about police talking to Kate last year, and I wanted to know if Jason and Amanda have asked to see the context of the chat police had with Kate back in twenty twenty three.
We have requested notes and for our statements and for any audio that was taken in him speaking with Kate.
We've recently just written a letter off to the Commissioner Don Adams, requesting all that information Jay again.
And has she come back to that letter as yet.
Mate.
We've got a handball straight down the defensive line to the Flower ranking officer and he'll be looking into it.
Last week, in a final few days of the Senate sitting in Parliament, Jackie Lamby, the outspoken Australian politician, raised Eden's case. Now Jackie only had ten minutes to state her case, so this audio might feel a little bit rush, but it's powerful and we're going to play the whole thing.
Thank you Siner Lambie, Thank you Kin.
Madame Debbie present. I rise today to speak about the life and Souden death of fifteen year old Eden Jade Westbook in twenty fifteen. Many people around the world already know Eden's story better than most people in Tasmania and Australia. That is largely thanks to the podcast Out of the Lady, The Eden Westbrook Story and The Dog at Work of Amber Wilson at The Mercury, and on Tuesday the eighteenth, the June Channel nineth Under Investigation program brought Eden's story
to a national audience. Getting Eden's story out there is thanks to unpay advocates, and especially the strength and persistence of Amanda and Jason, Eden's mom and dad and their determination to find out what really happened to their beloved daughter. The night before Eden day she died, she had had a disagreement with her parents about using her mobile phone and went to cool off sitting in a car outside her home. At eight forty five pm, Eaeden's sister went
outside to check on her, but Eden was gone. The family spent the night searching for her. Early the next morning, on the eighteenth of February twenty fifteen, Eden was found hanging by a rope from a limb of a tall tree in a public park on the main road in Saint Helen's on the northeast coast of Tasmania. The police claimed Eden's death was suicide, and a Tasmanian coroner agreed, But in the days and week that weeks that followed, as initial shock faded, Jason and Amanda simply did not
believe that Eden had taken her own life. She had just come back from a holiday of her two sisters and was looking forward to a camping weekend. Eden was a bright and bubbly fifteen year old. She was doing exceptionally well at school, She had a lovely family and was looking forward to buying her first car. The coroner noted that she was a sensitive person who cared for others.
I believe, and I'm not alone in this belief that something awful happened and that Eden was probably murdered, and disturbingly, it appears that some members of the Tasmanian Police have, for unknown reasons, covered up the crime. Now, I've always been a big supporter of the police, including the Tasmanian Police. They must deal with situations that most of us would hate. They also often are understaff and many of them lived
with PTSD. This is not about giving those hard working on a Tasmanian place a hard time, but it is my concern that there is a small number of rotten apples and the Tasmanian Police appear to have engaged in a cover up. Eden's parents and family have fortunately ten years to have the death of their daughter thoroughly investigated
and made the subject of a public inquest. The family's investigation into Eden's death was assisted by a whistleblower who told Dan's mom and dad in early to twenty twenty three that her murder was covered up and staged looked like a suicide. Now we have a key witness, the person said to be the first to report the finding of Eden's body to police. Police saying that that she straightaway thought this was a murder, stage look to make
look like suicide. The new witness, Ma. The new witness made the front pages of an article in the Mercury Oni yesterday. The whistleblower said he had heard that Eden had been tied up in a tree with wrote by an adult man younger female. The man identified to people who he claimed he had he who were involved. It looks like there are numerous gaping holes in the police investigation and reinvestigation, including the failure to interview criticable witnesses
and share relevant information with the West Books. The police also failed to see cct V footage so a proper timeline events prior to the death could be established. The police didn't ask Eden's parents for her phone, and it seems they didn't examine Eden's phone in social media. Unfortunately, the phone was cremated with Eden. They didn't even investigate Eden's movements prior to her death. Witness statements obtained by the family and a previous lawyer helped fill the gat
that critical gap. I have seen multiple witness statements taken by a criminal barrister that he believes prus beyond reasonable doubt that Eden did not commit suicide. There are simply
too many inconsistencies and far too many unanswered questions. There is the possibility, as raised by the new witnesses, as reported in Yesterday's Mercury, that Eden's hands may have at some stage been tied behind her back, and there is an unwillingness to share critical details with the family, including vital all taps, all topsy photos, which form an integral
part of the post modern report. Police failed to seize and properly examine cct V footage of the skate park, which was said by a now deceased police officer to the parents shortly after Eden's death to show Eden arguing with an older female in the early hours of the eighteenth February twenty fifteen. The investigation into Eden's death was conducted by Tasmanian police based Attaint Helens, but with oversight and import from a now deceased and alleged pedophile police officer,
Senior started Paul Reynolds. A constable, a mere com s will have primary courage, a new country will have primary carriage of the investigation. It also appears that no real forensic investor examination or analysis occurred. It seems a hasty decision was made to treat what should have been a highly suspicious death of a vulnerable title as a suicide. This seems to have occurred on day one. According to
the new Weakness Reynolds. Possible improper or undue influence on or possible crime conduct in any investigation is now the subject of review commissioned in twenty twenty three by the Commissioner of Police, the Wise Report, which is due to be released shortly. I understand that Westbrooks have made detail
submissions to this review. The coroner, who was being advised by the late disgrace Paul Reynolds, handed down a three page finding without investigation on the thirteenth and September twenty sixteen, in which she held that there was no reason to hold an inquest. The coroner found that the death of Eden Westbrook was a suicide based on several matters, including apparent incidents of previous self harm and suicide attempts. The coroner found that Eden had died of aphixia and hanging.
She was satisfied that there were no suspicious circumstances surrounding it's death or that any other person was involved. However, nowhere in those three pages did the coroner refer to a forensic findings that she relied upon to exclude fail play and indicates suicide. This included posts modern results, autopsy photos,
or forensic DNA testing of the rope. For example, on the involvement of Reynolds and the coroner stated Senior Sergeant Paul Rennam's of the launchest in Coroner's office also provide a regular overside and direction during the investigation period. At my request to end quote, the coroner stated that she was satisfied that she had received all available evidence that
could recently assist her to determine the relevant matters. In the Coroners Act nineteen ninety five, an application by Eden's parents to have the matter reopened was refused by the Chief Magistrate in Able twenty twenty two. It also appears from the evidence of her two older sisters, Justin Hunter, who lovingly applied make up to Eden's face at the funeral home in twenty fifteen, that Eden had suffered facial
bruising and shattered teeth. This, of course, could be caused as a result of a blunt force trauma to the face. If these injuries did exist, why did the Chief Magistrate and her written reasons do not reopen the matter state that there was no sign of any torment to Eden.
Despite many requests over many years, and more recent requests by Channel nine to have the autopsy photos released to an independent forensic pathologist authorized by the parents for analysis, the Coroner's has refused to release these photos, essentially on the grounds that this case has now closed and it was not appropriate for any third party to receive the photos. If there was nothing to hide, why not release the photos.
What is also arowing is that Channel nine's under investigation producer was informed earlier this year that the autopsy photos were never on the coronal coronial file. Does this mean that the coroner and the Chief Magistrate never viewed the autopsy photos when Channel nine's under investigation with Liz Hayes,
asked an independent forensic pathologist to review Eden's case. The independent expert theologist told Channel nine and I quote the coroner's refusal to provide these photographs has severely fettered my review of this matter. And whilst I understand the sensitive nature of these photographs, it beggars belief that they have not been released from my examination as they compromise an integral party of the autopsy poor end quote? Did alleged pedophile?
Did alleged pedophile? Police? When Paul Reynolds, who was assitting in the coroner and oversighting the investigation, remove side on or destroy the autopsy photos? What role did he playing in the obviously deficient police investigation? How are the parents and their legal advisors supposed to determine if they should appeal to the Supreme Court for an inquest when critical document,
documents and images are not released. It also appears from the recent Commission of Inquiry and additional advice that there was alleged pedophilia activity happening within the Saint Helen's High School itself. They are also concerning allegations that they has been child abuse perpetrated by members of the Tasmanian Police in Saint Helen's around the time of Eden's death. Was even somehow caught up in this awful activity? Was she being growned or even abused? Was she being bashed and
tied up before a staged hanging? There have been other suspicious and unsolved murders or disappearances in the north of my home state. It is time for the Tasmanian Attorney General to intervene has occurred recently in the Jerry Wise case to ascertain whether systematic issues and corruption are involved and direct that an inquest to be held as provided in the Tasmanian Coroners Act. The Commission of Police also failed to ensure a proper review and reinvestigate a reinvestigation
of the matter. When the rect Books made formal complaints the outcome of a recent review was not shared with them. This whole thing stinks to high heaven. I believe this case needs an urgent public inquest headed by a respected interstate judge or Karen of coroner and with independent counsel
assisting from interstate as soon as possible. How could Paul Reynolds have operated as he did for decades, as reported by Reginia Wise in her twenty twenty four interim rear, Why was a full police funeral with a police guard of honor health for him, with clear knowledge of his misconduct,
with a glowing ology from the then police commissioner. You only need to look at the way in which the recent Commission of Inquiry into Tasmania in Tasmania into child sexual abuse is in government institutions was prevented from making adverse findings, all findings of misconduct and therefore holding people,
both offenders and enables to account. There must be an independent commission of inquiry, underpinned by appropriate, appropriately and mental legislation by a highly respected interstate judge or judges, into the integrity, impartiality, the competence and the effectiveness of Tasmanian police and the coronal and criminal justice system in Tasmania. The possible murder of a young girl on what appears to be a botched investigation potentially a blatant coverer, should
been enormous concerns to all Tasmanians. I call upon the Attorney General in Tasmania to direct that a public in quest to Eden's death by an independent and external Coroner be held pursued to Section twenty four to one d of the Tasmanian Coroners at nineteen ninety five. The Westbook five family has been fighting for answers for NELLI ten years. It is time. It is time the Tasmanian State government done its job and found out the truth behind what has happened in Saint Helen's.
How did that make you feel?
Oh my gosh, so empowered? She got everything on records. Jason and I were just like in absolute poor and gratitude of everything that came together on that evening. And it was done by a huge amount of homework research, support by Channel nine under investigation with Jay Bodshape Yourself, the community and the Wilson the Mercury.
Jackie's speech in Parliament caused a flurry of media attention, including the journalist but the Hobart Mercury Aber Wilson writing about it on the front page for three days straight. I wanted to know from Amber, who has some experience in this type of thing, about what traditionally happens when something like this a politician raises something in the Senate.
I suppose one of the things about Jackie Lamby speaking in the Senate is that all.
Of her words were covered under parliamentary privilege, which means they can pretty much say whatever they want without that leading to legal consequences like defamation.
When something like that is reported or a speech is given in parliament, a journalist then has what is called qualified privilege, so we can report on a lot of what is said in parliament or in court because of these types of legal situation that absolves a person from having legal consequences, particularly consequences like defamation or contempt of courts.
And in your line of work and in our line of work, that's really important, right.
That's super important because we can't just go and report allegations like that there are sex offenders in Tasmani police in certain parts of the state, or there are sex offenders in certain public schools, because we're at risk of defamation sous if we do that.
We also saw that the in Westbrook case also got raised locally last week or a few weeks ago in cabinet. So and that was one of Jackie Lamby's party that raised that, correct.
That's right. So Andrew Jennery is a new member of what we call the Lamby's. So he asked our Attorney General, Guy Barnett, if he would use his powers under the Act and intervene and order an inquest into the Eden case, similar to what we saw in the case of Jari Wise, which I think you have been discussing with your listeners. That question was asked a few weeks ago and the Attenney General took it on notice.
So taking on notice means what It.
Means that the Attorney General might not have had the answer at the time and so needed to go and consult with his lawyers and advisors before coming back on as So typically an answer for questions given on notice will come back and be given at the end of question time that day or perhaps the following day or within the next few weeks.
Guy Barnett I truly believed that he was sincerely. He ampavises for us and he feels for us in his response when he stood up on the floor. We were pretty happy with the question. We're happy with the sorts sponsor his sincerity. Guy Barnett, he said he would look into it, and we now know that he's made a response.
So up until now we all had a little bit of hope the Attorney General had said that he would take the case on notice. That was until about a day later when Amber Wilson from the Mercury made contact with them to find out how that was progressing, and it wasn't good news.
So my question the Attorney General wasn't after Andrew Jenner's question in Parliament. My question to the Attorney General came after Jackie Lamby gave her speech in Parliament. And I had actually asked him the same question on a previous occasion, but on this occasion, with Jackie Lamby asking in Parliament, felt a little bit more impetus for him to answer
that question directly. And what he said to me via a government spokesperson, so this didn't come from mister Barnett himself, from one of his advisors was that he didn't have powers to intervene in Eden's case and order an inquest be reopened. And I think that we've been talking a bit about the Jari Wis case and how that differed. In the Jari Wise case. His mother had did his mother faith to Carlo had been campaigning for some time
for an inquest. So the investigation the case of Jarry Wise's death had been reported to the coroner, and the coroner had begun investigating. There was no form of ding's handed down and an inquest hadn't been held and a death investigation hadn't been completed. So the case was what they would call open still. Because the case was open still, faith to carlak Jarry's mum was able to appeal the
kindest decision not to hold an inquest to the Supreme Court. Now, the Supreme Court did actually uphold the kind of decision not to an inquest, and that's when our former Attorney General at least Archer intervened, and that was an extraordinary intervention. It was the first time in Tasmani's two hundred years since colonization that that's happened. So this was highly unusual,
never ever happened before. Now in the Eden case, now, this is what the Attorney General's Office has told me, was that because the findings had been handed down, the case is now closed, so it's not subject to an appeal. And that means that because it's not been before a court and it's not open still, the current Attorney General
can't use his powers underneath the Coroner's Act to intervene. Now, this is a really interesting thing because since then I've been conslated by various lawyers and people and advocates who've said that this is all just an interpretation of the Coroner's Act and that if you look at the wordings differently, or for judge interprets it this way, then it wouldn't matter that that has been findings handed down in Eden's case,
because there hasn't been an actual inquest. But the thing is, until we can get Eden's case to a court, any kind of court, that kind of argument can't be thrashed out. So the avenue that's open to the Westbrooks at the moment from a legal viewpoint, and also just a bit of this claim here that I'm not a lawyer, so I can't be getting any legal advice. This is just what it is. On the face of things. The avenue would be to return to the coroner or to the
Chief Magistrate, Catherine Geeson. They're the two people that have the power to open an inquest into Edan's case.
Currently, Eden's been on the front page to the Mercury now for a bunch of days, right, there was a lot of developments in the last sort of seven to ten days how's the feeling or what's the feeling that you're getting in Tasmania right now.
I think that there is definitely a ground swell of people really taking notice of Eden's case and really starting to worry about the processes that have been followed or not followed in Eden's case, and whether or not people
believe that foul pay was involved. I think that people are really sohy on board with the fact that all of the property undue processes haven't been followed in this case is and that's alarming for a number of reasons, because it could have meant that a young girl was murdered and no one has ever faced justice for that.
What's been the most surprising thing that you've learned over the last few weeks in your reporting and investigations.
I think when the woman called me last week, the woman who found Eden's body, who I think he did speak to as well, I found a lot of her observations that she made while she was sitting with edith
really really jamming and really really insightful. So a lot of those observations about the way that Eden's body was physicians or things were happening with Eden's body, or the way that the rope was placed around her neck seemed to really sit in alignment with what Jason and Amanda has noticed when they first saw Eden the real many think, oh gosh, this really is a case that needs to be reinvestigated.
In the next episode of Our Little Lady.
This is the most prolific grooming I have seen perpetrated by one person in my career.
The independent review into Paul Reynolds has now been completed.
Fifteen victim survivors took part in the review, which determined that Reynolds groomed at least fifty two boys and young men.
I feel very disappointed. Yeah, it's my job to make is right.