Scotland. Nineteen ninety five. Alan Stewart is just settling into his role as a wildlife crime officer. He received some alarming reports about poisoned bait. popping up in the countryside. We knew the gamekeeper that was on the area and he he was the the suspect, so I and another police officer went to see him. On the way up the the road to the house the the vehicle windows were open and there was an awful smell so we stopped.
And looked over the banking, and here he or someone else had been dumping loads of deer heads and legs and guts. Felly mae'n fawr iawn yn fawr iawn. Mae'r ddŵr wedi cael ei wneud. Mae'r ddŵr wedi cael ei wneud. Mae'r ddŵr wedi cael ei wneud. Mae'r ddŵr wedi cael ei wneud. Mae'r ddŵr wedi cael ei wneud. Mae'r ddŵr wedi ei wneud. Hãy subscribe cho kênh La La School Để không bỏ lỡ những video hấp dẫn and it was full of a white powder. As they are looking, the low rumble of a Land Rover approaches.
The gamekeeper. We told him why we were there, etc., and we were going to search his Land Rover. In the front of the Land Rover. Oh, I said to him, what's the laying pan sauce for? I said right I'm I'm gonna pour some in my hands and lick it. Oh he says no no don't into that It's Mevinfoss, it's it's phosdrin is the the trade name. A really deadly poison. A source you wouldn't want anywhere near your Chinese takeaway. A poison. Used illegally to kill birds.
Byddai wedi'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i' But why are gamekeepers risking jail time to take down legally protected birds? How do we protect our birds of prey? And why is this issue so divisive? Find out in this episode of Wild Crime.
To meet the demands of the shooting industry. I've been in various forms of policing over nearly 50 years, and raptor persecution has been the hardest type of crime to solve. From the Natural History Museum, this is Wild Crimes, the podcast that explores the sensational and shocking true crimes committed by people against the natural world. I'm Khalil Thurlaway. And I'm Tori Herrige. This episode...
We're on home soil and looking at wildlife crime that's taking place in the UK and the one we're focusing on, as there are lots. is raptor persecution. Yeah, raptor persecution is the illegal killing of birds of prey. Some of these species are very few in number, and still being killed illegally.
Now, this is something that is both highly controversial and maybe not that known or talked about. Yeah, I mean actually my first question is, who would do that? Why would somebody kill something like a beautiful, beautiful buzzard or a kite? What's the underlying reason? And the RSPB, that's the Royal Society for the Protection of Birds. think they know the main driver for it and they have produced one map, just one map.
that they say is like a smoking gun in terms of evidence. Yeah, so we're looking at a map of the UK and there's little blue squares dotted around and I think each of these is what, a an incidence of raptor persecution? Exactly. And the first sad take home that you can see is that actually this is going on across the entirety of the United Kingdom. But within that there is definitely a a pattern.
Because if you look at the maps, you can kind of almost draw an imaginary line that runs from like the northeast, like down diagonally across the country towards the southwest where instances of rapt persecution are more common. If you look at the real hotspots of rapt persecution, where there are loads of instances in one small area, those areas
seem to be on or near to uh managed grouse moorland. And it's managed specifically for the production of large numbers of grouse, which are these kind of small ground dwelling birds that are used in the UK for recreational shooting. Yeah, the the north of England and Scotland especially both look really dense for that stuff. So the thing is, right, that's the RSPP's point. They took this n this map of instance and said, look.
There is absolutely no doubt that there's this like coincidence between where apt persecution happens and the presence. of grouse moors. And that seems really simple and straightforward, right? But actually the situation is so charged and so complex. A tangle of people, Politics and clear profits. Hmm.
Raptors covers quite a broad range of different types of what we'd also call birds of prey. So these are birds that basically take other animals, insects, right the way through to really quite large Dr Joanne Cooper is Senior Curator for Birds at the Natural History Museum. She says she's far from alone in her love of raptors. They're just so handsome, they're dashing, they're they're they're fast, they have the hook bill, they have the fist there.
And I think it's a fascination that people just have innately over thousands of years. You can look how they've been revered in lots of different cultures, like the ancient Egyptians. So I was just the latest in a long line of people just to be gripped by charisma and their Raptors are a broad group that evolved from a common ancestor and include many of the most charismatic and well-known birds, eagles, owls, falcons, vultures and more.
People tend to like to measure a population in in pairs, breeding pairs particularly. Our most common one is something like seventy thousand pairs in the summer of buzzards. To contrast with that, our rarest you're getting down well under a thousand and in some case under
five hundred pairs. So where the ones that are kind of more red listed, we're talking about things like hen harrier, which is a current sort of estimates around about five hundred and forty five pairs. But our most rarest, and it's never been a common one over here, it kind of right on the edges of Montague's Harrier, which is s only seven pairs.
UK raptor conservation efforts have seen some successes, but a number of species remain severely threatened. It's things like the hen harriers and things like golden eagles about 500 pairs. These are the ones that have the real scarcity and they they're a a proper breeding population but they're still rare. These low population numbers mean every lost bird becomes a threat.
to the ongoing survival of the species in the UK. Meaning raptor persecution, a crime here, is a serious problem. There are other things as well going on, but it's really clear that persecution is still affecting these birds. We're never going to have 75,000 pairs of golden eagle in the country, but we can look at the habitats available to them and say there should be more than 510.
All birds of prey are protected by law in the UK, but unfortunately, many of these species are still being illegally targeted, and the most common means of doing through shooting, trapping and poisoning. Jenny Shelton is Investigations Liaison Officer for the Royal Society for the Protection of Birds, or RSPB. She and her team work with law enforcement to investigate and track incidents of raptor persecution.
The Raptor Persecution map, which plots incidents of raptor killings across the UK, is produced by her team. Statistically, the highest density of these confirmed incidents of of raptor persecution do correspond with areas that are managed for the most intensive form of of grouse shooting, which is driven grouse shooting. When we follow these crimes, it does take us often To gamekeepers who are managing the Moors to make them the best places they can be for the highest.
volume of red grouse to be shot. And if we look back at the data, since nineteen ninety, two thirds of people convicted of rapt persecution offences have been gamekeepers. Hm. So that's a pretty clear link. Yeah, yeah, there's been lots of studies. Um the government's own study in a a couple of years ago in twenty nineteen confirmed that there was this link
And it was the reason for hen harriers being in such low numbers. So yeah, there's lots of evidence out there and we're really, as the RSPB, calling for this to stop and for these moors to be managed in a legal and uh environmentally sustainable way. What is a grouse maw? Early September it is a beautiful landscape because it is bright purple at that time of year. The heather is in flower.
There will be lots of pollinating insects. It will be alive with birds as well. It is a wonderful environment in the summer. Not quite so pleasant in mid-winter though. Dr. Roger Dracott is the Director of the Advisory Department of the Game and Wildlife Conservation Trust, or GWCT. GWCT is an organisation whose research is focused on the game shooting industry. They investigate game species, wildlife and land habitats and aim to create a sustainable environment for biodiversity alongside.
In the uplands the principal game bird is red grouse and Red grouse live in Heathermoorland and Heathermoorland is in incredibly precious habitat. No other country has extensive heather uplands equivalent to those in the UK. So on a driven grouse shoot it's a highly organised day where you would have essentially a a line of guns, so these are the people that are shooting the grouse and then you would have a of what's known as beaters who are at walking across the
That is a form of shooting that is expensive to put on. But there's quite a wide range of beneficiaries. One would be uh the people who are yeah involved in uh running the day. and involved in beating for example in terms of employment And then there are all the sort of ancillary industries as well, such as uh catering, um, hotels, etcetera. But the other form of shooting was uh walked up ground shooting. So it may be one or two people walking across the moor and flushing.
That is also in extremely enjoyable Yeah. These grouch chutes, particularly the more expensive driven grouse chutes, are born after months of preparation. Keepers breeding. Populations of the red grouse to ensure patrons have something. Ken Harriet and presumably all these birds of prey are picking off Yeah. Maybe full grown birds. Yeah, that's the conflict. But it's kind of hard to imagine that like, you know, a few hen harriers could actually make Such a big difference. I mean
Rydyn ni? Rydyn ni? Rydyn ni? Rydyn ni? Rydyn ni? Rydyn ni? Rydyn ni? Rydyn ni? Rydyn ni? Rydyn ni? Chicks, as you say, it might not have a huge impact, there'd still be some grouse available to be shot. But if a bird of prey were to fly over a chute which is already set up, the beaters are there ready to flush the grouse towards them,
and a buzzard appears, it flushes the grouse and it disrupts it all and they've got to start again. So that's I think the other problem that birds of prey pose. Across the UK, what does your data tell you about where raptor persecution is happening? To about 2007, we've got all those years plotted on a map, and you can see really clearly the black spots that are showing up, and they correlate with.
yw'r yw'r yw'r yw'r yw'r yw'r yw'r yw'r yw'r yw'r yw'r Felly mae'n bynnag yn unrhyw unrhyw unrhyw unrhyw unrhyw unrhyw unrhyw unrhyw unrhyw unrhyw unrhyw unrhyw unrhyw unrhyw unrhyw unrhyw unrhyw unrhyw unrhyw in the uplands with regard to in particular hen harrier number. And hen harriers do continue to be illegally killed by some gamekeepers. And i is that sort of undisputed. Yes, yes, it's undisputed.
That some hen harriers are killed by grouse more interests. Why is that? Okay, so we ha we have a a significant conflict. Uplands. It is a fact that hen harriers do eat grouse and their chickens. This is clearly a significant problem, and some grouse more keepers and a study. Believe that hen harriers if they were to build up to significant numbers on their would render their grouse more unlikely. The issue of raptor persecution in the UK is born out of this central conflict.
But while the issue of criminality is black and white, the subject polarises the community. Ramps of Persecution is getting a lot of attention, big media campaigns, big social media, big conservation campaigns. So I think the awareness of it is pretty high. It's such a strong and passionate debate on both sides.
I was actually really surprised how much agreement there is between like the Game and Wildlife Conservation Trust and the Royal Society for the protection of birds because there's so much agro On both sides of this debate. Crack your fingers, Cleal,'cause I'm gonna bring up some mean tweets. Lay it on me. I'm ready for some uh online beef. This is what I would describe as like a typical um
Pro raptor conservation, anti-raptor persecution tweet, right? So this person tweeted across our uplands rare breeding birds and mammals are being decimated by people as a result of destructive barbaric and archaic land management for optimising the slaughter of grouse. It it's a strong delivery, but
I mean I don't see a huge amount wrong in there. Maybe that's just my city bias. That's that shows what side you're on, Khalil. And then you can sense a frustration because then you get another kind of tweet which is just Just stop shooting stuff. Yeah, right, just because the heart of the matter, they don't want to shoot grouse and they don't want them to shoot raptors.
Straightforward. But then the people who hear that, all they hear is a personal attack. And that blocks their ears to anything else, right? And you get replies like, it's just opponents of grouse shooting. And they're invariably trying to lay the blame at its door.
Right. So, you know, because th th they fall under attack, so they're they're basically saying you you can't be trusted with your opinion on raptor persecution because you actually hate grouse shooting. People who do try and maybe interact they get things like, I'm fed up with it all I'm fed up of it all. This toxic, corrupt, grouse shooting industry doesn't care. And this is my favourite.
So we're like in the middle of a conversation it which is pr presumably started off quite reasonably, it's just like bollocks. Every online conversation at some point will degenerate to the point of people just swearing at each other in one word tweets. Yeah. And then you get things like, uh, all birds will be deaf from five G soon, so it doesn't matter.
No one likes to think they're the baddies, and grouse shooting for many people is part of their way of life, and for some, their prime source of income. You know, if raptors started eating podcasts or museum collections, then You know, maybe I might strap up. But how do we move forward then? What's really strange to me is that this is the first really UK centric story, and yet
I know so little about this world. I'm a city boy through and through, if you couldn't tell. So I wanted to get a clearer picture of this world and find out a bit more about shooting itself. And maybe not from Twitter. I think Twitter manages to charge a lot of things up, and I think unfortunately with Twitter, someone says something. And uh a lot of people who have never even been to a grouse mall think that's fact.
And I think that's dangerous and I think if you drill down below the surface and look at the facts They're not as bad. This is Dee Ward. He's the landowner of an estate in the Angus Glens in Scotland. D recognises how charged the issue is. I would say there's an awful lot of people out there who don't like shooting but aren't trying to get shooting banned. They don't have an agenda and they like to be evidence-based.
I think there are other people who probably object to who does the shooting rather than the shooting itself. Um there is a very much this whole
You know, it's done by rich people who just fly in and land in a helicopter and shoot whatever and then they go away again and all the rest of it. And I do i understand that they might not like that, but What I would say is that these people coming in bring a lot of money in and that actually helps pay for the gamekeepers and the beaters and and and keep local communities going. So as a landowner
What is Dee's perspective on raptor persecution? I'm not saying it's not a problem because that that's wrong. I think it's at an all time low and the line is going down. So we would like to see it go down an awful lot quicker, but it is going down. You know, I fully believe that that it is really changing and it's changing for the good, which I really welcome. Is Raptor Persecution dropping?
Well, it depends on when and where you look. Certainly prosecutions are down, as well as registered incidences. However, according to the RSPB, actual confirmed cases of raptor persecution haven't changed much over the last 10 years. In fact, during the lockdown of 2020, they reported a surge of incidences, at one point averaging over one per day.
However, where D is based in Scotland, there does seem to have been a drop in cases over the last decade. We'll get to why that is in a bit. But, when some of these species have so few breeding pairs, any amount of crime can make a big difference. So perhaps it's not surprising that even one case could cause an uproar. In Burdeprix persecution Is a a serious crime. I mean, people come to Scotland to to look at birds like golden eagles and hen harriers.
And they absolutely hate when they read the paper and find that a golden eagle has been found on a an estate in the Cairn Gorms, uh lying beside a poison bait. So it's little wonder that Burdepre persecution gets high profile. It's a horrible way for them to die. They experience uh gut cramps and uh seizures, the head often when you find the bird, the head is arched over the back, the the feet are clenched
and really quite a a horrible way to die. This is Alan Stewart, aka the Wildlife Detective. A former Wildlife Crime Officer and author of Calls From the Wild, He's been battling wildlife crime for decades, and is all too familiar with the tensions caused by this particular issue. There's a real divide between some of the conservationists and some of the gamekeepers and landowners and that needs to narrow a wee bit. People say, oh well, we should get together and talk.
We we have tried that and it hasn't worked particularly well. It's maybe worth another try. I I think that folk on the conservation side maybe need to be a wee bit less speciferous in accusing all gamekeepers of being rogues. I think they need to realise that only some are rogues, but unfortunately they spoil it for others. And I think on the the game shooting side they need to turn in the rogues in their midst. They really need to clean up their act. The gamekeepers of the people.
They feel like they're disposable and that puts significant pressure on them to meet the demands of the shooting industry. This is Ellen Burnside. She's a recent criminology graduate from the University of Portsmouth, and in 2020 published a paper on raptor persecution. She interviewed several gamers. Trying to get to the bottom of what leads a percentage of them to break the law. She also gave me a bit of an idea of what being a gamekeeper involves. And it's not your typical 9-5.
Many of them say it's a way of life. It's day in, day out, sometimes You're working on weekends as well. When the landowner calls upon you you need Ready at any point. Although salaries are typically low for what is essentially a 24-hour job, gamekeepers are often given accommodation, a car, an equipment. A lot of things. you know, said that he had a wife and three young children with another one on the way. He cannot afford
To you know, not follow the landowner's instructions and risk becoming homeless in his words when he has that pressure on him to provide for his family as the main breadwinner. And to compound that fact. The number of people wanting to do it greatly outnumbers the number of spots available. The landowner won't think twice about getting rid of you. You know, he can just get another one the next day. There are that many people lined up for this type of job.
from speaking to gamekeepers, it's incredibly hard to Mae'r cymdeithasol yn ymwneud â'r cymdeithasol. Mae'r cymdeithasol, mae'r cymdeithasol, mae'r cymdeithasol. Mae'r cymdeithasol, mae'r cymdeithasol, mae'r cymdeithasol. you could potentially argue that they're more likely to take risks. So, at the risk of losing your job, home and car, all in one fell swoop to a very hungry workforce.
The pressure to do whatever the boss wants can be extremely high. But this pressure isn't usually explicitly stated. It's more heavily implied. Rydyn ni'n ymwneud â'r ymwneud â'r ymwneud â'r ymwneud â'r ymwneud â'r ymwneud â'r ymwneud â'r ymwneud â'r ymwneud â'r ymwneud â'r ymwneud â'r ymwneud â'r Buzzards, boys, we need to sort this out. And this whole issue seems to be all tied up in how the shooting industry is changing.
So one of our most experienced participants said how much the industry had changed from when he first started in nineteen fifty three. So he was highlighting rather than previously when he first started in the nineteen fifties, it was more about a day out in the countryside. So, the gamekeepers get pressured by the people above them to take care of the problem. And this pressure is not only deadly for the wildlife, it has also been deadly for gamekeepers.
When I started away back in nineteen ninety three looking specifically at wildlife crime, the the main poison that was being used at that time was a poison called Mevinfoss. In Pershire we had a a gamekeeper that was using that at one time who must have either inhaled some or or got it on his fingers and then transferred to his lips and when his wife came home he was lying dead on the kitchen floor.
It shows how deadly it is. Another person who was involved in using that, he was admitted to hospital. ac yn ysgrifennu yn ysgrifennu yn ysgrifennu. Mae'n ysgrifennu bod ysgrifennu yn ysgrifennu yn ysgrifennu yn ysgrifennu yn ysgrifennu. Ac mae'n ysgrifennu yn ysgrifennu yn ysgrifennu yn ysgrifennu yn ysgrifennu.
So, it's time to look at potential solutions. The fact that gamekeepers are often being pressured by their employers and end up taking the fall has not escaped the lawmakers in Scotland. They brought in a new twenty eleven called Vicarious. Kidding's liabilities for the landowner. Has to show that he has taken adequate precautions to ensure that his employees stay within the law. So now, in Scotland if a gamekeeper kills a bird of prey, the landowner could be in serious trouble too.
Vicarious liability I think has slowed things down a bit. I think quite a lot of landowners have made sure that their employees stay within the law. Because of course, they could find themselves in court. But there have only been two convictions under this law. So it's not a complete answer. The difficulty here is how hard it is to catch people. Penalties are employed. But they're only important really if there's a chance of being caught and convicted. That in the present time.
Is still fairly low. The fact that it happens in the middle of nowhere with the slim chance of a witness really is the main factor. I have been in various forms of policing over nearly 50 years and raptor persecution has been the hardest type of crime to solve. Another change in Scotland is that wildlife crime was categorised as what's called a serious crime, which means there are higher penalties, but also police can deploy surveillance.
But that's just Scotland. What about England, where the majority of raptor persecution is now based? We well England have miles to go to catch up with Scotland, so Scotland's by no means perfect for the legislation. England have miles to go. I mean quite honestly, some of the people who That would be involved in making the legislation. are involved in shooting ground And that's why the legislation has not made it. It's just as simple as it's And we're back to the class arguments from before.
I wanted to know if driven grouse more shooting and raptors could ever really coexist. To be honest, I don't think there is a future for drummer. I think there could be a future for walked up grouse, but there's a A swathe of opinion against driven grouse shooting and and well justified. But I think there's been so much.
illegal activity linked to driven grouse shooting that I think eventually within the next few years that'll it'll come to pass that it'll be Landowner D. Ward, however, thinks a balance can be struck. believe there's a future for driven grouse. I think we need to do it in a sensible, balanced way, managing our land holistically. I think
if we can show people the other benefits of doing it, the other wildlife, the waders, the hares, the other things that live on the moor, I think why not have a future for driven grouse? I I actually think it can work very harmoniously. With everything else, if it's done right. And like all these things, it's about whether it's being done right or not. And what about Joe Cooper, our self-professed lover of raptors? What would you say?
If I said we should ban all grouse moors, all game hunting, it the the damage it's causing is is not justifiable. I would have to say what's going to replace it in the economy, in the land use and all those other things. I think one of the things that could help is there's quite a strong tendency Shooting days in terms of the numbers of birds shot. So people will refer. And that is something that I think would help as a big change of mindset if people
were prepared to accept and buy and sell lower bag days. Those are better for the environment, more realistic in terms of the management and just have a lower impact. If people were less under pressure to deliver those heavy bag days. there might be reduced pressure elsewhere because quite often people don't put much time into their training so they need to have a lot of birds over them to be able to hit anything. It's a sad fact. So I think that kind of quantity versus quality debate is one
That needs to be had as well. Rather than firing into the air like Yosemite Sam. Yeah. If you've got enough birds over you and you fire off like that then you might get a chance of hitting something. Okay, well we've certainly got ourselves quite the conflict here, haven't we? There's no easy solutions, I mean there never are, but I suppose it does feel like there are some ways forward.
Uh, one of the things I found heartening was that unity between at least like you know the official groups, like the RSPV on the one side and the GWCT on the other. I mean that unity of purpose. Is reassuring in terms of the conservation agenda. There seems to be a common enemy or set of enemies, which is Unscrupulous landowners who are willing to resort to anything to maximize the output of shooting birds. from that line.
But then if you zoom out one level It's our old friend the market, it's uh supply, it's demand, this mentality of perpetual growth. Always wanting more and more and more birds from your holiday grouse shooting. And so there is that pressure on the landowners to provide more. My issue is, given there's so much consensus
why the inaction? Like why is nothing changing, particularly in England? And that makes me like it it basically sends off my sceptical bells and I do wonder, like, whether on both sides that supposed like commonality is kind of superficial. Really? And actually the real issue is as we saw bubbling in through Twitter, the actual reality is what's going on underneath. Because if it wasn't, I feel like that consensus would be generating change.
Yeah, and on that note I think this idea of vicarious liability is an interesting and I think important step forward. The idea that landowners and business owners are responsible for what goes on in their business seems a no-brainer. And without that responsibility, that danger, the crooked ones are gonna keep putting this pressure on their groundskeepers to do shady stuff. I'm totally with you on the idea of people um taking advantage of somebody who has no say.
in the matter, really. You can't argue against that at all. But equally I think you know you've got to talk about practicalities. Yeah, there's practicalities involved of whether l any legislation works, right? So you can have vicarious liability But it's a relatively small number of instants per year. happening in areas that are poorly policed and massive like you know there's the whole point these uh in inverticomas wilderness areas you know it's really really hard to pin these crimes down.
So if the chance of getting caught is really small, you can legislate and people have no fear. They have no fear of getting caught. On all these issues that we've discussed, I like yo-yo between total and utter hopelessness and then actually quite a lot of optimism. Because like one of the take-homes from this episode is that already we've seen a shift in behaviour.
So if you hear like the stories from the gamekeepers from the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, like the attitudes then, which was like, you know, a free-for-all, like, you know, if it flies, it dies, kind of approach, has shifted. And I think there is a shift. Like, you know, you talk to people like Roger Draker who's you know grew up shooting, you know, they are passionate about the countryside. They're not averse to things that are gonna make the countryside better.
They just don't want to feel attacked. And so it comes back to I think giving people space to voice their opinions without feeling that they're immediately gonna be vilified. Right? It doesn't always have to be a massive fight. Yeah, people can make a difference. You need to make your voice heard. But you also need to listen. If everyone on all sides of this discussion can contribute to the debate Then that's when we can have a really
open and honest conversation about how we want to move forward. And talking about moving forward, that's it for this episode of Wild Crimes. But next week, we're looking into the bushmeat industry. We'll be exploring how this trade can impact wildlife and also whether it can impact us through deadly pandemics.
If you like the show, please rate, review and subscribe to the podcast. And you can find out more about wildlife crime and the Natural History Museum's work by visiting our website nhm.ac.uk forward slash wildcrimes. Wild Crimes is hosted by Dr. Victoria Heridge and me, Dr. Khalil Thurlaway. The series was created by Katie Pavid. This episode was produced by James Tyndale and Georgia Mills. It was mixed by Nigel Appleton.
The theme was composed by Kat Lovell. The series producer is Will Yates. Special thanks to our guests: Roger Dracourt, Ellen Burnside, Jenny Shelton, Joe Cooper, Dee Ward, and Alan Stewart. Wild Crimes is a whistled down production for the Natural History Music.