Hey, welcome ever went to another edition of a Orlando Magic pod squad?
We got a good one.
Former Magic player Pat Garrety joins the broadcast.
And you certainly don't want to miss that Magic fans afforded Department of Transportation remind you that fans don't let fans drive drug If you've been drinking, don't get behind the wheels that by the sober driver or catch a ride service.
Remember drive sober for a get pulled over a great night and drive Staatee. Lots to cover with former Magic player Pat Garrity. Ten years in the NBA, nine of them right here in City Beautiful.
He was a part of that heart and hustle team. We'll get his thoughts so on.
That year, what that looked like as it was his first year in Orlando, playing alongside Tracy McGrady in the prime.
Of his career.
What does he remember about those years and is there an opportunity for Pat Garrity, former member of the front office with the Detroit Pistons, to possibly return to a front office here in the NBA, And his thoughts as an analyst on this Orlando Magic team and how good they can be, especially follow man Carol get Into with Pat Garrity on this edition of Magic Pod Squad.
Those fawns long enough, they're Orlando Magic. This is Cole Anthony, Missus Jennings Suggs, This is Paulo Man Carroll the Orlando Magic and you're listen into the Pod Squad.
And welcome to one to the latest installment of Orlando Magic Pod Squad. Dante, Marc Telli, George Galate, Jake Chapman, and we're joined by Pat Garretty, ten year NBA veteran, nine of them right.
Here with the Orlando Magic. Worked for four years in the front office with the Detroit Pistons, television analysts at front office, insider on the stadium, but probably most noted for his time carrying the pregame show here in Orlando on Valley Sports Florida. Write that, dude, you Ki, what is it gonna take for us to get you back as an analyst here and sent you Metlorida.
My wife and I talk about that all the time because actually I retired. I went to business school. I had big ideas of like making my making something out of myself, And I say, why didn't I just stay in Orlando? You need to play golf at bay Hill where we lived. It's just done pre and post kid shows with Doctor Yes, well I know, then where'd you land and where'd you live?
Can we circle back on that because bay Hill is still open, right, you could still come back.
And Dante is still here. And so although I have some competition now from q Rich, I don't think he's given up that seat. And he has a lot to say, as we all know it does.
You're familiar with and you're familiar with him as well. So which so for as you look at what you've done right, you went back, you got your degree, you moved on, You've had success wherever you've gone. Is it is it unambitious that George and I are still here or is it amazing that?
Or is it amazing that we've been able to hang on this log? I know you've been You've been doing something right. You've survived. The way I would look at it is you've survived to the rebuilds and now you're
coming out on the other side. No, I think that that's like one of the more impressive things about Orlando is And again I was we were talking about this, just getting ready for the trip to come up there is just how many people are are still there for me when I was there, which I think is a testament a lot to you know, kind of the ownership and how mistard of os So he's like treated people.
And I think it's a special thing, especially like in sports where you do see kind of a lot of turnover and the things that you guys do.
That's a good sort that way, because Dante and I usually see it as laziness. So I'm glad that you. I'm bringing you on to make us feel a little bit better about ourselves.
So Pat, catch everybody up with what you're doing. Now. We know you're all over.
I mean every time I turn on the TV, it's you and Shams breaking down, breaking down trades and moons and critiquet. I got on radio, I know it's raiding spikes everywhere.
When Yeah, so you know, I was after a few different things. Was with the Pistons, started to Detroit with with Stan and was there for six years, four with him and then two kind of a transition period before before Troy Weaver came in, and then after that, you know, really didn't put too much effort to try to get
back into a front office show. At that time, my son was right in the middle of high school and I wanted to enjoy like being around him in his sports career, and I liked some of the media stuff that I had done, you know, ten years ago. That was really my only exposure to it. And you know, I had known chums over the years that didn't was never really close to him. But he called me up and he said, Hey, we're doing this show. Would you like to come on and you know, try it. We
have an opening we're looking for like an analyst. And that was on inside. The association was carried on the all the ballet sports channels up until kind of the beginning of this year. I mean, there was some restructuring, so I did that for a few seasons. I still do specials with them on on Stadium which are streamed on Twitter and get at a lot of it because the shams getting incredible and gay of people wising these straight deadline specials and free agency previews and draft things
like that. So that's been a lot of fun. But but now that we're empty nesters and our son is off to college, I'm kind of giving it one. I don't know if it's we'd say one last but one kind of final good effort to hook up, back up with the team and get back to the way. I'll be forty eight. I'll be forty eight this summer, So I don't think I'm quite yet ready to retire. I tell people on semi retired, so that leaves the door open. That's what I tell people too. But that's why I
really ask here. It's amazing, thanks for having so I retired.
Well, so, so, how was the game changed back? Because you got obviously it's I mean it seems to change yearly. But when you when you first went this route with the Detroit Pistons to now right, I mean, these the staffs are enormous. I can remember when you were here in Orlando, right, what was that front office Gabe right.
The game Ga Gape, Gape, Dave forzak Otis at the end there. Yeah.
Yeah, Now we've got we've got at least thirty people in our analytics team.
Right.
It's amazing how this how this whole front office system has more, it has and you know it even in the ten years from when I started with stan So we joined in twenty fourteen. He put together at the time a jug like what was considered a giant staff, and that was like four pro scouts, four college scouts, three assistant gms, like two analytics guys. That's like an average staff.
Now yeah, oh yeah, yeah, So so number one, you know, and that I think that what you see and you probably you don't see a lot of this actually being reported.
One of the challenges is actually managing all of those people well, right, Because if you think about what a GM is really supposed to be good at, it is supposed to be identifying talent, having some kind of sort of like strategic plan to you know, would depending on where you're out of your team's life, and then like really good negotiating good relationship with agents and other teams to kind of get down what you need to get done.
Those are really hard skills to have. And then layer on top of that being able to manage a bunch of scouts, a bunch of people at different points in their career, analytics, people who might have worked kind of in the corporate world outside of basketball, that are used to that culture. It's a really difficult job. So I think the guys that have done it well are unique.
And as far as the analytics go, you've sort of presided over or at least been able to observe the development of that world, and obviously the amount of resources pumped into it. But then I think the way that we understand it and now all of a sudden there's like backlash and I always hear people, you know, sort of make it the boogeyman, and I don't think they have any idea what they're talking about. Where do you come down on all of that? How is it best applied?
Is it just a tool when you do get back in, how are you going to use it?
Yeah, No, it's a it's a good question. I mean the way I always uh like break it down is there's there's a really like two ways that you could use it. One is like descriptive and one is predictive. Right, And I think that there's no question that using kind of data to understand what happened is like invaluable, and you have to do that just because you just don't have there's so much going on in the game that
it's just hard to understand. So even the people that bash you know, analytics are like using it to kind of confirm confirm, you know, the record or what they thought happened, right, So that's number one. And like especially like on the coaching side, like there's no coaching staff in the NBA that's not using data to determine their game plan, you know what, whether or not they want to admit, like how they cover pick and roll, like how the type of players and teams that they're defending.
That's going into all of their decision making. And every single coaching staff has like a coaching analytics analyst on their on their staff. I think the difficult thing and like the more disparity among teams I use it is kind of from a front office perspective, like when you're talking about the extent of the plays into the draft or into free agency and things like that, because that's
predicting the future. And you know, it's easy to use like big data sets when you can make you know, a million decisions and you're hoping to have a hit rate of you know, fifty five or sixty percent. A lot of times in the NBA of fifty five or sixty percent hit rate, Like you get four if ten draft years wrong, like your first or wrong, Like you could still be on track, but you're out of a job.
That's that's I think it's a little more difficult, but you know, teams obviously put money into it and they have kind of analytic models to predict players success. At the end of the day, though, it's the gms. The GM is not going to go in front of a press conference and defend his raft pick because he said, look, we had these ten guys from and women from MI T that built this awesome model. I was doing with the model sad like, well, how could you waive it
on me? Taking on on mid if you don't like it? Yeah, that's right, tuck him.
I was a changed with the agents, you know, as far as agents, right, because it seems like there's there's so many of them now, it seems and you know, I'm not saying it's it's for better or worse, but it seems to have changed.
That relationship piece with agents is huge too for front office folks. Yes, uh, I think I think a lot of that has to do with the consolidation in the in the agency world, and so maybe if you look at ten or twenty years ago, they were many more smaller agents, uh, spread out, they were still the power agency. David sure, Mark Barbstein goes but now with how powerful agencies like c AA and Clutch and obviously like you know, WASHERMN Excel, like those are those are those are the
big ones. They cover so many guys, they they do just because they have so many guys, They have a great deal of power. And so if you're a team, you can't look at it as a you know, this is a one time negotiation that we're going to you know, we're going to try to win, or you have to think about you know, you know, the future and the other good point locations of kind of keeping the relationship going that way.
I'm looking at I'm looking at the analytics pad, and my analytics say that if you were playing in today's game, Yes, I mean how.
Rich would you be?
First of all, because I mean we're all everybody's looking for a six nine, six ten guy that can bomb threes.
You were ahead of your time for three point shooter. Do you think maybe I was born a little too early? Well, number one, I would have been a center, that's true. But you wouldn't have to go down on the block and you'd go right where you were exactly. Yeah, we could have found But you know that's what I said. If you just paired me with Bo. Bo could play defense, protect the.
Rim, Yes, yes, exactly, No, I think there was though even you know, the shooty aspect obviously, but.
You know, and you would have. The way that guys work on their game now is different too. But just the level of skill of even even stretch you know, one dimensional type four men or five men right now is like way beyond and you watch how these got like everyone can handle, everyone can pass. So this the skill level to me is incredible. I seek. I always thought of myself as a pretty skilled player, but then I watch like I I'm like, God, I might, I might. I might have had a hard time. Well you know
the morphed do you know a morph like they do? Yeah, it's amazing.
Now we're watching a seven four guy, he might be seven to six and the things that he can do, right do you You sit back sometimes and just marble at that and how much it's changed and some of the we gotta rightly with a guy like Wen Bin Yama and these guys that what they can.
Do bowl Bowl, Kevin Durant, and it's remarkable. I do, And I think there's something to all of the criticism right now that's going on in the NBA about so much offense and how boring the game is to watch, because I talk to people who it's not an uncommon thing to say I'd rather just watch college basketball, and I'm like, are you kidding me like that? And I seek A lot of it has to do with just
how skilled everyone is and how easy it looks. Because it looks so easy, easy, and everything looks the same. It just it looks like there's not much going on. And if you do but you brought a Kevin Durant, if you watch how Kevin Durant scores like he takes incredibly difficult shots. Yes, yes, you know, contested shots with people game planning to stop him, and it doesn't look like he's putting in any effort at all. Well, well, let me ask you. Let me ask you. That's a very good point.
But you played with Tracy McGrady in the prime of his career, right, and we talked to him a couple of months ago, and you know, Tracy, you know you're not surprised. Tracy tell you he'll average forty five and today's game, but you but you at a front row seat the prime Tracy McGrady in this day and age defensively where you can't touch these guys right that he's able to get wherever he wants on the floor, you can't apede anybody offensively. What what would he look like today?
And you know, obviously.
McGrady would be I mean, McGrady would be a top five player, the top ten player. There's no question in my mind about that today. And I think that the thing that people don't and in his game completely translated to today. And I don't think the thing that people realize unless they really watch it back in the day is just how dangerous in all areas of the floor he was. Like one of the best parts of his game was kind of that mid post area where he could where he could isoate. And he was also one
of the best passers that I ever played with. And so in an era where you do have where he would have had a lot more spacing, would have been surrounded by four shooters, he would have been incredibly, incredibly difficult to you couldn't I mean, he would have averaged thirty points.
Ben as far as the scoring goes. I mean, because it's a pretty hot topic right now, is it. Do you think it's in a good place, because first off, anybody who tells you I prefer college basketball or probe they don't watch college basketball's either. That's one of those things people say at the bar.
Is it? But is it in an okay place? Do we need?
Did we kind of overcorrect and now we need to bring it back. I'm not saying we need, you know, ninety five to ninety three every night, but but is it has gone a little too far?
Do you think?
Because obviously I almost suggest that we're that we alter the dimensions of the court. We're getting rid of the corner threes and I'm like, okay, let's let's stat the breaks a little bit.
Yeah, Like, who doesn't like scoring? I mean I think that I that that's still thing that always like bafflespeak. Who doesn't like a game where the thing that is rewarded is skill? Like that's where the game is moved. And you know, I whether or not you know you could allow a little bit more physicality and take take some of the touch spouts out. I think that you probably could, like not to the extent that college does.
College to be is like it's like a blood bath, Like you guys only watching a guy the lane it's not fun to watch it all, you know. I do think that the one thing, and this is less related I think kind of to the physical and scoring, but then more to kind of the I think the criticism a lot of times in the spotlight that you see on referees. I think that the NBA has made such an effort to to you know, minimize EIR error and provide transparency to the fans and you know, with the
replay and all this kind of stuff. I think that actually taking a step back and going more towards on the path of like, look, these are humans, they're fallible, like in the end it all washes out, would be a much It would make for a much better product. Like we don't need to know the names of these officials. They don't. They're not part of the show. Right. That's a great But it depends on who you ask. It depends on who you ask. It depends on you to
ask it. And I think what I think what just happened.
For if you're a younger official, like there's no reason why you wouldn't do anything other than buy the book, and that means the way that you interact with player coaches and you know, I maybe this is kind of like a little bit like the nostalgia come out, but I kind of like look back in the day when you had Steve Gabby or Jess Cursey or some of these guys, and you knew that like if you said something to them or they didn't like your coach, they were going to like call it a certain way.
And that was part that's part of the Joey Crawford, right, you couldn't combat I mean, think about the the other night against Brooklyn, we had a situation where there's three of three and a half.
Minutes to go in the game. We're up. We were up by thirty or whatever.
The game was well in hand and we had a five to six minute delay for a challenge or Kada was and Reson has led us, and you're just like, oh my god, like let's there has to be put some common sense back into it too. When comes to the officiating as well, it's like listen, Like one of those guys could have went and talked to Kevin Olly and been like listen, Kevin, like we have reservations at nine forty five, like it's time to get out of Yeah, this one's up. You know.
Through the door, George speaking of this size of staffs though, there's a guy behind the bench with a clipboard whose entire job is challenges. He's living and dying with that chab and you know he's said, is I don't even know if he got it right. I don't even know. I don't I think we missed this out. He missed it.
What would you tell, Pat? What would you tell Magic fans about this team?
As you kind of put on your your analyst ad and I know Magic fans are are excited.
There's a buzz in talent. They haven't been this many games above five hundred and February since twenty twelve. Been a long time coming, a lot of excitement here in town.
What can this team do? What do you like about it? I think that one of the really impressive things about this team is and it has to do with how the team is built, but how they're actually doing it, which is on the defensive end. You know, I think I looked and they were, you know, on Basketball Reference at least top five defensively, like at this point of the season, with this young of a team, that is
incredibly impressive. I think one of the difficult things and you're seeing this a little bit with Minnesota, although with Minnesota a lot of it has to do with Rudy Gobert. Is that's the route that Day's gone as well. They're number one in the West, They're the number one defensive team, and the question is going to be once the playoffs start, are they going to is there the way they play and is there fire and firepower offensively going to be
able to translate? And I think that that it's going to be the The interesting thing to watch with the Magic as the years go forward is what type of you know, development that you need from your own players and you know, what else do you need to you know, improve till you're at least an average offensive team, because I think that it's really hard, it's really really hard to win the going all in our offense right the number of players that can carry you not only to
the regular seas to be successful in the playoffs, it's just there's just so a few of those guys. So to have a group of players like the Magic do right now that can be an e lead defensive team, you know, it gives you a little bit of it gives you a little bit of leeway and saying like, look, we just need to add some peripheral here, and we don't need to be the number one offensive team. We
just need let's get on a fifteen sixteen. And then you're talking about you know, then you're talking about hosting home for playoff games, so that that to me is like the really impressive thing about that team. And then you know, I was just looking at this the other night, kind of prepared to come on. I was looking at kind of Pollo's first couple of years.
La, wait a minute, you said you prepared to come on here. I'm not want to ask the guy's always read it at lest somebody.
Prepared to come on here? Yeah, bet him? Okay, go ahead. I'm sorry, No, but I was looking at you know, the question in my mind really is can Pollo be And this is a little bit of a cheap comparisons. They're both like duke guys. But can he be? Can he be Jason Hatum? Can he be like a number one guy that's eventually moving into like M v P. And if you look at is you look at you look at the stats, you know, kind of overachieving relative
to Tatum did in his first couple of years. Now Tatum had Tadum probably shot the ball better from three, and he's sure he's continued that on with high high volume. I think that's not I don't know if that's necessarily what Paul's going but like there's a chance that he could he could be that for you guys, and that's like the hardest thing to have. It's like the number a number one who's an All NBA level player a
lot of teams. Is you don't have that, you're not going to be You're always going to be a fringe team, playoff team. If you have that number one guy who's an All NBA type guy, you're you're in the conversation to be a perennial playoff team.
Well, can I ask real quick, guys, I know you guys want to jump in, but can I just to expand on that?
What does that is that one guy that helps this team make that jump? Is it a couple of you said perperal pieces? Is it just a couple of guys you need that third consistent scoring option. What what opens things up for Powa.
Where he can continuously be that kind of got we could which is remarkable what he's doing now without the spacing, you know, I think it's it's obviously shooting and so that's you know, you can get guys that are you know, maybe one dimensional isn't what you want, but but are available in free agency or through trade because they have some sort of law, but they can really shoot the ball well.
And given the right team and given the right other like above average defensive players are like playable players, you know, for for the magic I'm kind of curious what happens at the at the point guard position because I think that that's that's another area where you know, if you're able to have someone that can have the ball in their hand, you cut down on your turnovers a little bit all of a sudden, you know, you become a
little bit more of an offensive team. And I think that that also puts a guy like Jalen sugs And in a much better position just in looking at his his career possession and correct me if my wrong, but his role has moved a little bit. He was never a point guard, but he's would even like a little bit more off the ball, and by all accounts it's it's led to much more, much more efficient play for him.
Yeah, you're right, You're right, Yeah, the drives have been down and basically you know, spotting up and that's happened with the development of Franz Wagner and Palla Bangero, who are both.
So good just getting to wherever they want to get and attacking the bucket. What have you seen from Franz He's got he's got a little manager Nobili and him doesn't he with that with that euro step.
I mean, he's he's a big special player. But he's very unique, is he not. He's he's unique. Number one beat for you know, such a young player to be as good as defensively as he was able to be coming in, you know, I think so that that's number one. And then just overall feel and skill level. I think that what you're pointing to, Jake, of being able to put on the floor, having good vision and be able to make a play there, you know, for yourself or
for someone else, that's impressive. But I think that he he is the key to me or one of the keys obviously, like being able to do with you guys intun defensively, just to have those big, long skill two way type guys. Yeah, he's that. That was a that was an excellent thing.
You're coming into UH to the Key of Center on Sunday night. We're going to recognize you as part of the thirty fifth anniversary. I'm looking back now, you're still in the top ten for US in games played three pointers made. Talk about your nine years here in Orlando, I mean, that was the majority of your mgree. Did you ever think it would last that long? Being in Orlando? With all the things that I mean, you saw a ton of different versions of this magic team.
Thing? Was always you? Given that I was given that I was traded after my first year. I didn't think that I was going to be any place for nine years. Yeah. Number one. When I think back about that, in that era, no one really you never really heard about tanking, right, Tanking wasn't like a concept.
It was a much better it was a much better time pat for that.
So if you look at the moves of that team, that was the that was kind of why I came in at the final bend of the breakdown of the shack Penny at g Anderson era. That was the original tank. But that was a tank, like let's call it what it is, and it was a tank gone wrong. Yeah, exactly. The funny thing was was like they didn't know how, Like they just thought O games is of course, Gabe and the front office though you know, we're just gonna
get players. These are cheap contracts, you know, rookies, and we'll have a bunch of capspids for next summer. And
didn't realize how good Ben Wallace was. Didn't realize like how but guess how would you like how Georgiohn she was going to be Darryl Armstrong, you know, how how good of a coach in his first year and having never coached at Doc Rivers was going to be just in terms of how he first of all get motivated everyone, how creative he was, and how he wanted to play That team went forty one and forty one and so yeah, of anything that you know, those so those first you know,
four years and obviously playing with McGrady and Grant. What I remember about that obviously playing with you know, two of the greatest players that ever played. The disappointment a lot of times just with Grant and not him just not being like just such a good person and good player and not ever being able to be you know,
healthy in Orlando. And then you know there was obviously like two or three really rough years in between the air, but then being with that next special group of players right at the beginning of their career of jumiir Dwight cheto, you know, JJ and I wish I wish was able to hang out one more year. I would have been able to go to the finals. Yeah, we would have been playing.
Just one more year.
Think about that.
You know what's interesting to me what I'm hearing is you don't have to take because they got guys in here. You went forty one to forty one, and then the next year at Tracy McGrady and Grant Hill and potentially almost Tim Dunkt.
Is that's all you have to do, though, Dante's you'd have to add Tracy McGrady and grand Hill.
That's true, Oh that's true.
But did you what you know we hear about the media's perception right of putting that heart and hustle team together. What was your perception when you came in. Did you think, also seventeen wins, what what this team was going to look like? Or was there a certain point in training camp or preseason we thought, man, we might have something here.
Honestly, Dante I was too young and probably dumb in terms of like the NBA, would you even have like good explications because more than who's this amateur? Guys that just said who's amateur? Well, the well, the you go back and look at the training camp roster. That's the other thing they were like we started with like twenty five guys, you know, Chris Galley and Arwn Hill. Charles Obannon was there, like I forget what urge from? Yeah? Yeah, good? No what you when you're the I think the reality
is And probably veteran players had other expectations. But you know, I was going into my second year, I wasn't even thinking about what the record was going to be. I was thinking about, like, am I going to be able to like get on the floor and carve out an inch for myself and like survive in the NBA. So I at no point in that year, I think until later in the year where we were like in the mix, were was anyone? I mean I at least wasn't even thinking about the playoffs fair enough enough for that.
I can't tank with a bunch of tryhards.
I mean, I mean the Bowl outlaw and.
A tanking roster, I'd be come on, now, that was that was? That was? That was? It had a fatal flaw. I think problem player. Well by only as you play.
You played all eighty two games bad, So that's not That's how it's remarkable, right, I mean those days are gone, by the way, eighty two games don't happen anymore. No, no, right, Well, last thing that you're going to be coming into town, as George said, you're going to be recognized here in Arito.
We got a fall, we got a gala coming up. We got a fun couple of days with you here in town. But from a family side, I know you're a proud papa too, right. You got Henry On following in dead footsteps right at your all the water.
Let everybody know what it acts.
Unbelievable that that's a real story.
Yeah. So so our son Hendrick, who was born in Orlando two thousand and five, both football and a basketball player growing up, really fell in love with football and added opportunity, you know, pretty decent opportunities mid mid major service academies to go and play and and then also at for third walk on opportunities at Notre Dame and a couple other Power five type schools, and you know,
we talked about it. I think, you know, for him, like being associated with the Notre Dame program and the education that you get from Notre Dame and just being able to be part of that was worth it, even though he you know, you're stepping into the deep end of the pool. So he's just finished up his freshman year, walk on tight end at Notre Dame, doing fantastic in school.
That's great. Would have we thought about bringing him down, but he's like, I got now, we got lefts on Monday, so I will be able to make it best for a boarding left. So I'm like, that's a good excuse. That's a good excuse. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I like that. But it's gotta be cool watch on it. You get to relive.
Yeah, I know you went to the games a lot, and it's gotta be o for you to be a part of that environment.
Oh it's great. Yeah, no, it really has, and I do. He's stayed in touch with the school and gone back for a couple of games. But this is this has created a whole new reason to be even even more engaged and go back more. And it's a great, great place, all right, beat Well, thanks so much.
It's always great to catch up with you, and good luck the rest of the way. We're gonna have a fun weekend. But as you kind of work your way through the NBA and get back with the team, it's gonna be fun to watch. Keep up the great work on television and we'll catch.
Up soon, all right. Great, be with you, guys, daith dots do if we listen this for you, don't worry about it. You're all sack. Put it a good word with you, put it in a good word with the sideline reporter and uh part time play by play guy. Perfect.
It's a option d on play by play. That's right, all right, That would do it for this edition of Magic Pod Squad. We'll see it next time.