Ordinarily Speaking people see the happy faith on corp, but not a struggle behind it time.
Hello and welcome to Ordinarily Speaking, a podcast that celebrates resilience in sport. My guest this episode is the Nasi Cochanarchus, a young man who has shown enormous resilience to overcome injury after injury after injury in a bid to chase his tennis dream. Potential and talent has never been the issue for the Nasi. He cracked the top one hundred as a teenager and has beaten Roger Federer, who was
the world number one at the time. The problem has been staying fit and healthy, and each time the Nasi's body went, his mind would follow. Every setback would lead to a rut. The candid and at times brutally honest, twenty four year old opens up on just how dark things got and how the love, even tough love, from family, helped him get through. Tennis can create an interesting dynamic.
Family members are also teammates and advisors. I'm pleased to say the Nasi is finally back on court and almost upset the world number six and eventual semi finalist Stefanos sits a pass at this year's Australian Open. Please remember if this chat is triggering for you, there is help out there. Beyond Blue or Lifeline are just a couple of places you can go.
I really hope you enjoyed the chat, ook FANASI, thanks so much for spending some.
Time with me, pleasure. Thank you for having me.
I've been through so much on the injury front and the way that it has affected you as well.
And the adversity that you've overcome.
Can you take me inside your mind first, the moment that you won that first round match here at the Australian Open, because I feel like you had it a moment.
There well, yeah, definitely, definitely very emotional, try not to cry too much, but that one kind of kind of got it out of me. It actually started well, I mean throughout the match. I was like at the start, I was like, all right, let's just focus on this first game, then first set, and I was like, I know,
there's a lot of work to be done. I won the second set pretty easily, and I was like, Okay, I'm right here, but I know there's still a lot more work to be done because all these doubts and things come creeping in because you're like, hang on, what if I lose from two sets to love? This is like my golden opportunity. And I think if you're playing a lot of matches and confidence, that doesn't even come into your mind. But I'm like, shit, I don't want to lose from two sets to love. So then luckily
I've got a good breakup. And then I got up five love, and I was like, hang on, I'm still not there yet. Like when you're up two sets love and five love, you're like you've probably got ninety nine point nine percent chance of winning the match, but like it's not there yet. And then as I came up from that change of events, I felt this loud roar from the crowd and just this loud ovation, and I started tearing up. At five love, I was like, shit, I cannot focus here, Like this is bad, Like there's
no chance I'm winning this game. He served the first seven. I think I had like a tier running like down my cheek. But then yeah, just when I won, it was he missed a passing shot by like an inch, so I was it was just pure relief and pure elation.
I was, I was stoked because you've been through a lot.
Yeah, Yeah, it's definitely been been a rough couple of years. The last opportunity I had to play in Australia, I qualified, I was the Open, but I knew I wasn't healthier. I knew I tore my peck during the last round of qualifying, so I knew I wasn't able to play the first round I played, but looking back was a massive regret because it almost ruined my year, or it
did ruin my year. But hindsight it's a wonderful thing in tennis, and if I if I had hindsight the whole way, I would have done things a lot differently or a lot better. But yeah, itinite I had been a rough, rough years.
What was it about that moment that sort of got you emotionally?
Well, it's just playing and having that validation after a few years of just not being able to compete, or people asking me the same questions like healthy, healthy, healthy. It's not even hey, how are you anymore? How's the body? Like? That's literally the first question that I get, so just to prove to myself and the people around me, especially my mates. I hadn't seen me play Ausio Opened since I was really young, seeing like all the work that I've put in and the level I can produce on
the tennis court again still after all the adversity. Yeah, that was probably the relief and the happiness knowing that hang on, like, I'm not that far away and we'll.
Get off to swear on this, we'll get off the hardcore tennis shortly. But that moment again, Stefanos sits a pass to push him. I know you obviously want to win, but just to push him. How much did that give you a mental boost given everything?
Yeah, definitely, Like I've come back in the p and I've beaten some good players coming off an injury, but to do it on the world's biggest stage at home, it was tough. I won the first set, but I just put so much physically into it that I kind of died in the ass for a couple sets. And I'm going to be honest, after the first two sets, the last three sets, I was cramping everywhere. So I was just trying to manage myself and I tried not to show it too much. I think I did a
good job of that. The pickle juice might have given it away, but I was Yeah, I was trying to push and the fact that feeling like I did physically, like all that fatigued after the first two sets and being able to last. This show showed what I can do mentally, and I think I've proven to a lot of people, including myself, where my tennis is at and what I can do given the right chance. So yeah, hopefully, hopefully twelve months time coming out with a W on that one.
Okay, so give me a list of all the injuries and illnesses that you've been through.
I couldn't even tell you. Not many people know this, but I was stressing before my first round of this year because my body wasn't pulling up how I wanted to in practice. So I got an MRI a few days before my match just to make sure that everything was okay, because I wasn't feeling that confident in my body. Luckily, the scan gave me confidence. It said everything was all good, maybe a little bits mentally, but at the same time, I know what I'm feeling, so my coach and Fitnesstran
did a good job of managing it. But I remember when I went in for the MRI, I had all this lists of what I've gotten an MRI for and shit, it was extensive. It was actually it was like twenty thirteen, twenty thirteen, two and thirty and twenty fourteen, so they were felt like there were three three things every year that I was getting checked, they were either injured or coming off an injury. So yeah, there's been knee when like after my best result, I had probably the Federal win,
he was number one at the time in Miami, building momentum. Again, the very next tournament in Monte Carlo, I fall and a sponsors signed and cracked my kneecap. So just stupid shit like that. It's just that that's been the tough part. It's ever since I felt like I've started to at momentum, something's kind of shut me down a little bit. So
it's hard. I've tried not to dwell on it too much because I always think to myself, fuck, like, there's so many years where I could have missed and seen guys that I feel like I should be where they are and they're having great success and making shit tons of money, and I'm sitting there trying to whip out my theorbands and make sure I can get through this practice session healthy. So that's been the toughest part mentally because when.
I spoke, I've spoken to your coach and your dad and your brother, and they sort of say that with every injury there's you know, every setback, there's a lull afterwards, and you know, and it hits you tell me about that.
It's tough because you know you're always looking and you're always looking at the next thing, and you're like, maybe this is the chance, this is the year where I'm going to have a good year and I'm healthy. It just gets shot down like quickly with another injury. And then not just injury, but it's the time to get back as well and start building the confidence and playing and knowing you can get through matches in practice and then matches overseas against like high level competition. So it's
just hard. It's that stops stuff. But where I haven't had that continuity, and it's just that reassessment of like maybe this isn't for me. Every time you get injured or have the big one, You're like, maybe my body is just not meant for this. But then eventually I I picked myself up and I'm like, fuck, I don't have forever to do this, so I'm just gonna keep pushing at it and see what happens.
Were you always a determined kid or was there something that made you that way?
I don't know. I was always super competitive. I've told a few people this when I used to play basketball when I was younger.
Todd has told me this story your coach about coming up and watching you in under tens.
I think it is. Yeah, exactly, I was pretty selfish. I was a bit of a ballhog at times.
But he said, once I passed it to you, you didn't.
Get it bad. The way I thought of it is if I felt like I was the best player on the team, I'd give myself the best chance to score, So my teammates probably wouldn't have been stoked. And that probably explains why I chose tennis, because I said, if my team wins and I don't play well, I'm pissed off. If I play well my team losess, I'm pissed off. So I was only happy one way is if I
played well on my team won. So maybe I thought asball wasn't the sport for me, and yeah, I became selfish and chose tennis.
So your coach did say that day, when you're about ten years old, he went, yeah, I reckon, he's probably better off with an individual sport exactly.
So I'm just super competitive, and that's a hard thing when you're injured, because you want to compete, but you know your body's not allowing you to the level that you want, and you try and make it look somewhat competitive, but deep down inside you know you have so much
more to give and you can't show that. Then of course you read all the shit online saying like, oh, he's washed up, he's overrated, all this sort of stuff, and then after a while you start to believe that yourself, and that's what can affect you mentally big time.
So social media has been really tough for you a little bit.
I mean it's the cash twenty two. You know, you love it when things are going well, everyone's praising, You're pissing in your pocket a little bit, and then all of a sudden it's like, nah, has been washed up. But over time that used to affect me, But now the last few years, I know what I'm capable of, so when I see a headline or something, I kind of laugh it off. So it used to bother me a lot, but the last few years doesn't phase me at.
All when it was at its worst. How badly did it bother you? Would you consume it constantly? Would you scroll through? How bad did it get?
Yeah? I think if you're gonna it got pretty bad. But I think if you're going to read the good stuff about you, you've got to read the negative stuff as well. I don't know, I'm interested. I like to see what kind of people are saying at times as well. My dad's pretty keen on me just getting off it and not worrying about it. But now I used to worry about it, but now I just find it entertaining.
And sometimes more than anything, I use it as a motivator if someone doesn't believe in me, and just anything like that to get you going.
For me, it helps me tell me about the shoulder injury because I hear that that was probably the worst that it got for you.
Yeah, Yeah, that was really tough, the shoulder injury. Obviously, coming off my first year on tour, I played sort of three quarters of a year and I got to sixty nine in the world, just turning nineteen, and I was playing really well on tour, and then yeah, I just lifted some of the wrong weights and didn't really wasn't aware of what I was doing in my body. And then yeah, had the shoulder surge and kept trying to come back, but wasn't really ready and I didn't
see a real finish line. Outside of my shoulder surgery. I couldn't serve without pain for over a year, and coming off your best year on tour, you want to be able to back it up and coming back. I said to my coach, had I think I had three or four protected events left with my protected rankings, so I could get into all the Grand Slams. I remember I came back for my first tournament. It was against istaman In Leon in Paris, and I played an absolute
stinker and I felt so bad on court. I felt like I felt like I was maybe playing the level of someone ranked about six seven hundred in the world, and I was just like, wow, like I'm shit. Like that's how I felt. After that match. I'm like, I'm really bad, and I told I told my coach around me, I was hating tennis. My body didn't feel good, and I said, look, I've got these protected rankings, so I as well just pick up the cash for this year.
If my tennis feels this bad, or if I feel like I can't see myself getting better or improving, then I think I'm I'm done with a sport. And he could see it in me mentally. He could see I didn't have the fight, and that's one thing I always had when I was younger. I had that competitive spirit, like I was trying to scrap for everything even when I wasn't playing well. And I felt like I'd lost that.
But yeah, the very next week, I ended up playing Nisha Kory in French Open, off barely any tennis, and I pushed him to like the really tight four set match, and I felt like I had chances of winning. And probably since that moment, I thought, nah, I can still do this, so yeah, probably French Open twenty seventeen, I started kind of believing again.
How close were you walking away from it all?
Oh? Very close, very close. It's tough when you feel like you're a shelly yourself and you're just not being able to prove it. You feel like there's not much for you to do on a tennis cord. I've got really bad anxiety going places I hated, I hate, especially when I was injured I hated going places, and I
just didn't feel like comfortable. I didn't feel like I belonged, which is weird because from the outside obviously you can't tell, but from the inside, like you know, you're battling through places. So I don't know, I just I just definitely got very close to quitting a few times. But eventually I kind of I don't know if I need to do it, but sometimes I go on YouTube and look up some
good results and it gives me some good hope. So it might be a bit arroging my self absorbed, but whatever I've got to do to get myself going.
Do you know I have heard that from so many athletes on these post make you feel bad it. I don't know what sports people did before YouTube, Yeah exactly. I had Nathan Lyone on Season one saying I would just go and watch my highlights. I'd go and watch good you know, taking wickets in a good performance.
What does it give you?
I think it reminds yourself of what you can do and why you play the sport. You're not always you kind of always remember the bad stuff at times, so to kind of reiterate the things you can do well and to have a full crowd of places cheering you and supporting you and having those memories that that's the type of thing that keeps you pushing.
Is it almost reminding yourself of the reality as opposed to what you've convinced yourself.
Yeah, you're thinking of yourself in that moment.
Yeah, especially when you're injured, you kind of just think all negative a lot of the time, or especially if you've tried to come back and it hasn't worked, then you're even deeper negative. So yeah, for me, just looking at looking at some videos like that, and especially here and looking at that show Court three banging on the stands and having that atmosphere, It's like, fuck, this is why I play like this is this is why I
want to do it. I still can believe in my tennis and yeah, it just it comes from the practice court. You know, you've got to go one step at a time, and that's where for me, having such a good family and good coaches around me and the good support stuff is so important because they never stopped believing even when I did.
How bad did it get mentally?
Yeah, very tough. Depression was a real thing. I didn't I didn't take any medication for it. My dad wanted me to, but I was like, no, I'm going to get this. I'm going to get out of this myself. Went and spoke to some people, but I didn't really believe that they knew what was going on. Even when you speak to professionals, it's like, yeah, they they can kind of say the right things, but unless they're living in your shoes, I don't think they have an idea
what you're going through. So especially the thing is everyone's path is different. So for me, the mental health was definitely a real thing. But I yeah, it was pretty dark for a while, and just little things would bother me over time, stuff that wouldn't even Yeah, I don't know, as I said, I'd walk into cafes and I'd get really bad anxiety and I'd like, I'm going to get out of here.
What would happen? Exactly happen?
I just feel like really nervous. I could feel my heart racing, real strange stuff, that stuff that I'd never had growing up. And then eventually I just started doing a lot more things that I enjoy hanging out with me, it's going out and just like trying to put myself around positive people and upbeat people and just doing stuff I like watching NBA, like going to the beach and then playing tennis. Over time, I started to get that mojo back and that feeling back, and yeah.
When was it. That's worse.
It's worse. I've I've had different phases of it. Probably twenty sixteen was pretty bad that year after the shoulder surgery, after real Olympics, because I played the Olympics in Rio, but my shoulder felt like I said, about thirty percent, but I played because I was like, fuck, I don't know what I'm doing. Four years so around there was pretty bad. It also got pretty bad after, to be honest, after I think it was twenty nineteen when I played
here Ossie Open, I tore my peck. I trained for six months building my way back up, and then first tournament back I tore the same thing when I had a while cut into Monte Carlo the next week. So that's when I didn't see like a little bit of an out as well. But I'd say probably a few years back was probably twenty seventeen. End of twenty sixteen was when it was really bad.
Yeah, when you were on your own, left to your own thoughts, what would happen and how long would you be on your own four or just be dark?
I don't know. I'd found myself crying like my brother was then, and he flew back from Melbourne a couple times. But I'd just be crying in my room for no reason, like I just watch NBA and just didn't want to I'd get anxiety going for a walk when there was no one in the vicinity of like one hundred meters of me. So it was strange. I couldn't even explain it.
But yeah, just over time, just shit changed and I just felt more comfortable and I felt fine, started getting in the gym again, building myself up physically, and I think that definitely helped me mentally for sure.
Did you feel like your brain was just turning on you.
Yeah, like no positive thoughts ever came in, and if they did for a second, it would like switch back off really quick. I don't want to sound all doom and gloom here because I'm good now, but it was, Yeah, it was pretty grim for a while. It was strange. You can't see the positives or you can't see any good things at the end of the tunnel. So I think only people that have gone through it can kind
of understand that. But even if there's good things like right in front of you, you just can't see it at that point because you're so locked and consumed in your own thoughts.
What would you tell yourself, Oh.
I don't know it. I don't even know. It's just a lot of negative stuff pretty much, just like I just felt like I couldn't go outside. I felt uncomfortable, like just the smallest I've seen people happy with like make me, like set me off and make me cry. It was real strange. There was just this one moment when my coach's daughter, she's like two years old, she like reached out me for a hug, and I just started crying for no reason. Just weird shit like that.
So yeah, I don't know. I don't know, But as I said, it's a real dark place and I don't want anyone to go through it because as bad as physical pain is, the mental pain is way way worse.
How bad was the physical pain as well? Was that okay for you? Do you have a pretty good pain threshold?
Well? I think I did, but you wouldn't pick it with how much I'm injured. So people call me pretty soft. But yeah, no, I'd like to think now I've got a pretty good pain threshold. But now the most pain pain I've been on court was Ossie Open a couple of years ago when I had to retire after a setup. That one physically was the most pain I've ever been in.
What's your mindset in a moment like that? Like, tell us for those of us who will never understand what it's like to be an elite athlete, what's it like in that moment?
I mean, when you're practicing in an injured you don't really care because you can kind of just go off court. You know yourself. You're like, fuck, my body's cooked here, Like I've got to take the time. I'll be all right. But for for that on court again, the anxiety sets in because I was going on to court and being like I can't last this, Like I'm going to play a few games and retire. And then then you get to let down. You feel the guilty feelings because they're
like all these people have come to watch you. It's a packed house, they're going to cheer. They don't know what you're going through, like physically, they just saw you qualified and you're ready to go, and you're not going to tell people in the media, yeah I'm fucked, like I'm not gonna be able to play this match, so I yeah, I don't know. That's the hard part. You're going out on court knowing you're not gonna win, or knowing you're going to pull out very shortly, and that's
the that's the tough part. So you just got to kind of play and you feel like you've let everyone down, and that's the hardest part.
Another common thing that I hear all the time, I've I've let my family down, I've let my country down. It's a lot to deal with as an Assiett.
Yeah, for sure, for sure, especially when you had a lot of expectation growing up. And then, as I said, when you've been injured and you come back, you're like this is the year. But inside, you know, you're like I'm pretty fuck to you, like I can't I can't play this match. But eventually you've got to try and do what's best for yourself. And people have short term memories at times as well, you know, so it's like, yeah, it's going to be shipped for the next few months.
People are going to remember you got injured or you pulled out again. But I don't think people are thinking about twenty nineteen now. So that's one of those things where you've just got to build yourself up. And that's so we're lucky as tennis players. That is one of the positives. We do have another chance every week usually to make things better. Thankfully, it's not like the Olympics where most of the athletes have once every four years
to like really shine. Tennis, you get a lot of opportunities, So that's the thing. You've kind of got to have short term memory and be ready to keep going.
What is your family meant to you through all the adversity?
Oh yeah, I mean they've been everything for sure. I think. Yeah, if it wasn't I wasn't having a strong backing from my family and friends and coaches, I wouldn't be able to get back and have that belief to get back. So just being in Adelaide with them spending a lot of time and then getting me from where it felt like I was at point zero, helping me get back up, give me the confidence, mum, giving me the good Greek.
Food to keep me going, and what's the go to to go?
She makes his chicken thighs with a Greek salt and just yeah, it's magical. So I don't know she knows. I like it.
Every time your brother talks about almost this guilt that he has of not being there all the time, have you ever spoken to him about that.
No, he hasn't said that, So that's news to me.
Now.
It's very nice to hear my brother is. He's not the most vocal guy, but he can tell he cares and he thinks really logically, really clearly, when I don't sometimes. So yeah, I definitely don't think he should put any pressure on himself to do that. He's got his own life to live as well at times as well. So now he's been great. He's been good support. When I was battling a little bit in Adelaide, he kind of flew back and helped me out a little bit mentally,
even when he's gone through some stuff. I try and it's weird because you're struggling yourself. You're okay to help others, but you can't help yourself, so that that's the weird part. And I think that worked for both of us. But no, the family has been awesome.
This is what he said.
To me, he said, I had the conversation with the old man. I should have done this, or I should have traveled here. If I was there, I could have changed it. You have sleepless nights yourself. I should have sacrificed more. And then and then you go and your butt heads again anyway, and you go, why if I come back to.
See him again?
Yeah, I know that happens all the time. But yeah, I mean, I don't think he can be too hard on himself for that sort of thing. It's, as I said, hindsight as a good thing. Everything. At the time, you make decisions because you think they're going to help you, or you think that it's the right thing at the time, and obviously looking back sometimes it isn't. But who knows.
Who knows. I think maybe things could have changed, but we're in a good place now, and I hope, I hope it's a sign of good things to come.
Did you know he cared that much?
I knew he cared, But do you smile? I didn't. I didn't. I was expecting that it's from him. He's not a very deep person like it takes him a lot to open up as well. So I'm surprised here and that stuff. But it's nice.
It's almost like him caring makes you feel more uncomfortable than him.
That's cool. I don't know how to react to it. Are used to it.
You're listening to ordinarily speaking with the Nassi Kochanarkus in twenty twenty, talk me through that, because that started with a big challenge as well for you health wise.
Yeah. Well, it was tough because I spent sort of all of twenty nine or at the end of twenty nineteen trying to get my body right. I was able to win my first round at US Open. I hadn't want to run in the Grand Slam for many years, and then I had had the night match with Rafa and Nadal the next day, and I just remember after my four hour match my I think I retore my peck a little bit and it pulled up really badly.
So I was unable to play that match. And I heard Kobe Bryant at the time was going to come and watch that match, so I was super amped for that. And then out of another Grand Slam. It's just the same old story again. So that was really tough, and I took time off to try and get myself right for the January and I was coming into January feeling really good, and then my throat started burning all of a sudden sort of end of December, and I was like,
this is strange. I wasn't sure if it was something to do with the air with the bush fires at the time in Australia. And when I saw a GP, they said, my tonsils have flared up like crazy. So I was like a bit of tonsil artist. Whatever, I'll be fine. Ended up getting a blood test. The lady told me I glandula fever. So that wasn't good.
And then in that moment, come on, you're feeling.
Yeah, I was like, that's taking the piss now, surely. So that one. That's exactly what I thought at the time because I was actually healthy. I felt like I had a good preseason. I remember I came back home to Adelaide and started training. I was telling my coaches Todds, I was like, I'm feeling good, I'm feeling fit, and then like I was hitting for like two minutes and gassing out. They're like, mate, have you done any any work. I'm like, I'm telling you I've been training. Something doesn't
feel right. Though, like I've got no energy and I can't breathe, and they just thought I'd just been fucking around a whole off sea and and not focusing and not training hard. But I was like, I'm telling you, I've been finished trainers with me, I've been training hard,
I've been feeling all right. And then yeah, it turns out a glanzula fever and yeah, ended up being in hospital for sort of five straight days, and a girl I was seeing at the time told me I stopped breathing when I was sleeping because my throat was so swollen. So I'd like go through like thirty seconds a piece where I just like stop breathing, which I had no idea because I was like, sometimes you have a block nose, so you kind of end up breathing lately or later.
But it was, Yeah, it was strange. So they hooked me up to a monitor where if I stopped breathing, the machine would beep and the nurse would come in to make sure everything's fine. So that was that was grim. I lost a lot of weight there. I lost, yeah, sort of thirteen kilos and I'm not like the biggest guy,
so yeah, I definitely definitely looked looking out nourished. Was not healthy, and I don't wish anyone to look like one of those really old people with like sunken in like cheeks and it was bad.
Evil character in a Harry Potter film was Yeah.
I remember I was in hospital and in my bed and the guy next to me was like, I don't care anymore, just put me down. I was like, oh shit, this is not where I want to be. Yeah, So that was like I think he was kind of taking a piss because he actually looked all right, But I don't know, It's just not what you want to be in hospital.
How long were you in hospital?
For five days?
That's quite a lengthy stink.
Ye, it was pretty boring. I'm not gonna lie, especially when you can't sleep for two three days because like not even a minute because the machine will go off. So yeah, I think it went to a I got to a point where I told the nurse I was like, look, am I going to die if this machine doesn't go off? Like, oh, you should be okay, Well we're being safe. So I was like, if I'm going to be fine, just please don't please. I need some sleep because I was losing
my mind. I was checking my phone every five minutes, I couldn't sleep. I was making the time go by quicker at night, but it felt so slow. Yeah.
How long did the recovery take from something like that? How long was it until you actually felt okay, I'm healthy again.
Well that was the tricky part. That was also probably a low point because coming back from the glandulo and then the COVID stuff, meaning like I couldn't go out and I couldn't like really go out and enjoy anything as well.
And were you at high risk?
Yeah, I was trying to be careful as well because obviously my immune system was pretty pretty low. So yeah, it probably took about five six months until I felt like I was getting back to myself. That's one of the I guess not good things because obviously it's not a good thing, But yeah, silver linings in me not being able to play it kind of gave me time to kind of take time and not rush back to shear all these stories about chronic fatigue when you come
back from glendula too soon. So I was trying to be careful and luckily I was. That's where my mum came in handy. I put the weight back on and then some pretty quickly.
Thankfully, those chicken thies, those.
Chicken thighs got me. But again, yeah, hitting the gym and those chicken thighs, I lost like thirteen kilos but kind of put on like eighteen and that's a lot of ways. So I was just like lifting and eating everything I could find. I looked a bit like chunkier than usual, but I knew when I started playing tennis i'd lose that again.
Your dad tells me that when you sort of moved in with your sister over in Melbourne that that was a real almost positive for you, and I guess he sort of said that your sister was maybe a bit harder on you than your parents usually are.
Yeah, well, mum babies me a lot. I know a lot of Greek families have that at times. But my sister was kind of like a bigger brother sort of figure there. She was kind of getting on to me with things. But it was good because I love being at home in Adelaide. Love Adelaide, but also I feel like I needed something else to kind of get me because Adelaide sometimes had been a had some like bad
moments there where, like when I'm back home. It always means I'm kind of recovering from an injury or something negative.
At times a bit triggering.
Yeah, So I wanted to get out out of Adelaide and go to Melbourne and kind of yeah my sister. I was living with my sister and our husband Will and it was good, just had the spare room there. I've got a lot of close mates in Melbourne as well. Obviously it was a bit tough this past year seeing them all, but it was definitely good. Good being back in Melbourne. It's my favorite sitting in the world, so brings back good memories and good VARs. Come here.
Have your brother and sister of a pooled you aside and said, mate, you've gotten a bit ahead of yourself here, pull back.
All the time. It's a rare compliment I get from them, which is good. It's very rare. So when I get it, I take it and hold it with both hands. It's very it's a very rare occurrence. So yeah, my brother's very short on compliments, but I know when he does give him out it means something. So I'd rather be it that way than them always telling me all the good things I'm doing.
It's funny to hear that because he actually had a lot of really nice things to say about you.
Because he keeps it in, he doesn't say it to me too much.
It was the genuine love that I'm surprised by that for you, it was actually really nice.
No, i'm surprised you saying that now. We actually are really close. We do get along really well, and we're not one of those people that are like, I love you brother, like all that sort of stuff. But I think it's just we just have a deep sort of respect for each other and we just get along. Obviously, I listen to everything he says. Has been on the planet a bit longer than me, so he knows a few more things than I do, So even if I don't admit to it, I definitely listen to him.
I mean, you guys clearly have a really close relationship and you have some pretty honest conversations I've heard.
Is that fair?
Yeah, yeah, for sure. I don't know. I've always been a pretty honest person unless I get told not to be at times. But sometimes I'm honest to a fault. But that's yeah, I don't know, that's just how I am. I struggle to bluffer a little bit, and I just just kind of tell people what I think, whether it's
good or bad. Even about myself, I think I'm pretty pretty open and honest about it, So I don't know, I think that's the only way to be if you want to get places as well, especially with the relationship with your family. You can't sweet things under the rug. You've got to kind of talk about it and lay it on the table and go from there.
What's the most brutal conversation you guys have had?
I reckon it might've been in Lockdown. I don't know. I can't remember one brutal conversation, but I just me and my family kind of Me and my brother and sister went out each other when I was in Lockdown playing PlayStation. I just thought I was fucking around too much and not putting enough serious time in and then I just like went back at them for a little bit. But it was just stupid shit that I think siblings do when they argue. But no, it's been nothing too bad.
Everything because it's good because you know, everything is going to a better place, or trying to make you a better person, or trying to help your career or something like that. So it's never trying to shoot anyone down. It's always constructive criticism, even though I may not feel like it at the time.
Do you ever think that maybe you'd be more suited to beinging a professional gamer instead of ten.
Yes, all the time. Well that's how I was getting my competitive fixed. So yeah, when I wasn't playing tennis, I'd still try and get that build up and that energy of beating people online. It's pretty funny. I'd cop abuse, so like, yeah, use your mum's credit card for this game, and it's just it's just funny, and I love going back at them for it. It builds Nick as well. He loves it too, and I think, yeah, when we get online, we just we just like to abuse people, especially if they abuse us.
I imagine, though, even though you're an individual sportsman, that the family is just enormous. What role did they play in getting you out of the headspace that you've been in throughout your career?
Yeah, I mean they were massive. You know, It's it's one of the best things knowing you have a strong family and there with the good times, you see them. You look up to your box when you're playing and their they're front row cheering, even though my mom sometimes has no idea how the tennis scoring system works. I remember one year, one year I won the fourth set and she got up and was ready to get out of the stadium. I was like, mama's is a set to go? There were two sets all. She had no
idea what was going on. It's good it's timeless with her sometimes as well. She doesn't even really care that much if I'm winning or losing. She cares more about if I'm having the banana on the court to keep my energy up. So it's good having someone like that that doesn't really have too much idea what's going on with tennis as well to balance it out. But you can see as well, Yeah, it's obviously not about the winning or losing. She just wants me to be happy
and enjoying life. And that's what the family is for first and foremost, and then everything else is a bonus. But now they've all definitely played their part and helped me get back to this point. So yeah, I couldn't be more happy with the family I have.
So how have you navigated your way through it?
Then?
How you say you're in a better place now? How have you managed to do that?
It's just I think it just takes time. For me. It was again looking back to get back on the tennis court. If I'm injury free, I'm pretty happy most of the time, and every time I've been injured, that's when I've kind of started to have some dark thoughts and dark moments. So just putting the work in off the court to get myself in a good shape physically. I know I've got a long ways to go, but
I'm definitely definitely happy with how things are going. And then it allows me to be free and enjoy life on the court and off the court. Being able to play without pain. It sounds simple, but it's not some times, and it makes things a lot easier. You look up, you look forward to getting up every day. You're looking forward to getting practice to try and get better, rather than shuit. I hope I make it through this practice
session feeling okay. So it's just a massive mental shift that helps, especially with what I'm doing in my career at the moment, which is trying to be a tennis player or doing that full time. It definitely makes my
life more positive and feel better. But for me, getting back It was just about just looking back at all the positive moments I've had in my career and kind of using that as motivation and holding on to those moments to every day to think what I can do because I know I've proven it in the past, and when I have played, I have been able to do good things. And seeing guys my age do well pisses me off at times, but it also I use it as motivation and think, fuck, I'm either better than this guy,
or I can be as good as this guy. That type of thing, and that's what you use.
How do you free yourself of the fear of getting injured again.
It's tough. It's still still for sure in my mind all the time, and I'm sure there's going to be more injuries going forward, but I think now I'm smarter with how to manage it, to make sure that the injuries aren't long term injuries and they're smaller things that you can kind of get on top of. I think injuries are never going to go away if you're a professional athlete, but I think if you can manage them better and shorten the time that you're out, that's the goal.
Is that just about professionalism or what sort of stuff helps you know in that side of it.
Yeah, I definitely think professionalism is a big part of it. Some injuries are unlucky, but a lot of things you can kind of go back and see where you kind of messed up and try and do things differently the next time. It's obviously tough because I feel like I've missed a big chunk of my career early. But one of the good things was I am I did start young, which means I'm still young and I've got a lot of time to make it up in the back end.
Are you bitter about the time you've missed?
No, feelthy about it, to be honest. I try not to look back with too many regrets, but it's tough not to. But again, that's a good thing with tennis. You know you've got a chance and I'm sure if I can do what I want to do the next sort of few years, so I'll be happy. And one thing that stopped me or kept me going was I would have looked back on it thinking I wish I had a few more cracks at it if I decided
to just give up the sport. So while I think I can still do it, physically, I'm gonna I'm going to keep trying.
How much do you get out of keeping on going?
Like, have you learned something from because obviously you haven't had the time, but the fact that it means I guess maybe more to you because of what you've been through.
Yeah, Yeah, for sure. It definitely definitely makes the moments a lot more special. And just knowing you know where you were and where you get to, I think it's going to make the journey and the story or the sweeter. So yeah, just just knowing where I'm coming from, and I think it's going to be a good story. And hopefully I can finish the book or whatever my career and it's going to be a good one because hopefully, again it's just starting.
How good can you be?
I don't know. I think I can be pretty good. I don't want to put a number on it, but I've just you know, I don't know. I believe in myself and I believe in what I can do. I push one of the best players in the world the other day off playing two matches in about two years. So it's yeah, I think, I honestly do believe the sky is the limit for me. Sometimes you need matches to validate that. You know, we've all got weaknesses and strengths,
and I've obviously got to get a lot better. But I think I can do that by staying on court and given myself a chance, because that's the one thing. It's hard to put a limit on my ranking when I haven't even given myself a chance. I haven't played a full schedule ever. So if I can have a full year or a full few years back to back, then I can start getting a feeling of how good I.
Can be, because that's the other thing, isn't it.
And Grand Slam for example, that's two weeks, Like it's a lot of tennis back to back to back for somebody who's missed Yeah.
A lot of time. Yeah, And that's what makes the top players so impressive to be able to do that over the years, for how long they've done it. It's super impressive and an ultimate testament to them. But that's the thing. I've got to give my self a chance by playing tournaments and having a full schedule to see how good I can be.
When you reflect on it, what have you learned about yourself?
That the mind's pretty pretty strong thing at times negatively, but more so you have the power to overcome anything. And just having that belief and that just confidence to keep pushing forward and having that resilience. I think it's it's made me pretty tough person going forward. So I feel like, honestly a lot of things that get thrown my way now feels like nothing compared to what you
went or what I went through back then. So I feel like, even if it's another little injury here or there, I'll kind of brush it off and I'll be good to go.
What have you told yourself in your mind? What is it that you've you know, for people listening who are wondering how to get themselves out of their own dark places? What is this sort of shifting mentality that you've made you think?
I don't know. For me, as I said, it was just about doing things that made me happy and made me enjoy it. And then from tennis part, I just said, let's just fucking give it one more crack. And then I just kept saying give it one more crack every time. So it started off as give it one more crack, but it's probably turning to give it seventeen more.
Cracks, But just keep getting back up.
I don't know. Fuck it, to be honest, that that was my motto. I'm just going to keep having to go and whatever happens happens. Yeah.
I appreciate you giving me the time today and the fact that you are. You're very genuine, You're very honest.
I try to be.
What would it mean to you to actually have a healthy run at it when you take a step back and everything that you've been through, what would that actually mean?
Oh, it'd be massive, it'd be massive. It's more just the unknown for me of what I can do. I don't know. I don't know I could, I could have reached my peak. Who knows. I don't think I have obviously, But you know, I just don't want to die wondering. That's the thing. I want to want to know what I can do and give it a crack and give myself a good chance. And I don't know whatever happens happens, but I'm going to give it a go. Yeah, it's pretty much it.
I look forward to watching the journey onfold.
You are.
You are really fun to what and you are the kind of player that Australia does like to get behind. Maybe we just haven't seen enough of you to get annoyed of you.
Yeah, you probably sick me seeing but I know this guy again, but hopefully not. Yeah, hopefully I can keep it interesting. I like to hopefully entertain people, and obviously that's why I like playing in Australia and having that support in the crowd, especially over the last few weeks. As meant everything, I didn't expect the traction that I've gotten, so it's been unreal and hopefully I can give everyone a bit more to cheer about.
You're proud of yourself, Yeah I am.
I am to be honest, but yeah, I've got a long way to go so I can be proud of Yeah, thank you so much.
I really appreciate it.
Thank you appreciate it.
Too soon time.
Thanks for listening to Ordinarily Speaking. I hope you enjoyed the chat with the NASI. He is hoping he gets a proper run at it. Don't forget if you want to get in touch at ordinarily Underscore Speaking on Instagram or at narrowly Underscore Meadows on Twitter. Haven't you up on Wednesday? He'd subscribe and tell you mates, thanks again?
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