Ordinarily Speaking, the professional side of my tennis was the easy part. It was the personal acceptance that I found hard.
It takes time.
Hello and welcome to Ordinarily Speaking, a podcast that celebrates resilience in sport. I'm narrowly meadows. This week's guest is tennis champion Sam Stozer. Sam is a US Open champion and French Open runner up, with nine WTA singles titles and twenty six doubles titles to her name, but as she reveals in this chat, it has been the battle
within that has proved to be the biggest challenge. It's rare to hear Sam open up on the adversity she's faced in life, but now as a mum to Evie and partner to Liz, Sam feels it's time to speak honestly about what she's overcome in her journey to self acceptance. There have always been a lot of opinions about Sam's career. This is a candid conversation about how she feels about all of it, from her inner dialogue to the public scrutiny every year the Australian Open. This is Sam like
you've never heard her before, and she's pretty amazing. As always, if this episode is triggering for you, please ask for help. Lifeline and Beyond Blue are just a couple of places you can go. I really hope you enjoyed the chat. Sam. Thanks so much for spending some time with me. I'm really genuinely excited about this because I've wanted to interview you for quite some time now. What is it about tennis that you first fell in love with and is still in love with?
Well, I mean when I first started, it was just I think, the joy of being able to hit something and not not you know, like an angry way, or it wasn't an angry child, but like just having this I guess goal of like this is where it's got to go and how can I do it? And how hard can I hit it and still get it in the lines? And I don't know, I just had so
much fun. From the first time I had a lesson in a group, and then my older brother who's eight years older, would just take me and my younger brother down to the park after school and there was tennis courts there, so we would just play every day down at the park and yeah, I don't know, I just loved it.
It was like this.
Freedom of being in the court, of just being able to play and do something.
Your eyes almost light up as you're talking about it. It's still there, isn't it.
The love? Yeah?
No, for sure, I still love playing and you know, practicing and kind of everything that comes with it. So I think there's tennis is very, I guess, somewhat unique in the way there's so many things you can practice. You can work on so many different shots, how to do it, your footwork, your strength, your decision making, the technique, whatever it is. There is so many things you can work on, and when you actually break it down, you're like, oh, how am I going to do all of this in
like a day or a week? And so it comes to planning and or there's just so many different aspects to it. I think it makes it really interesting.
Is there a freedom that you feel out on the court as well?
Oh for sure. Yeah.
It's kind of like the place where nobody can come. So this is my court time, this is what I've got, this is what I'm doing. You're down the other end or someone you know, whoever it is, and that's just your time to enjoy and play and you know, feel like you're doing something that.
You love David Taylor, your coach for a long time, seven years, I believe, and through the highest of highs as well. He told me a story that you told him when he first met you about a night in Japan. Yep, tell me about this?
Was this when we were at the train station.
Yeah, yeah, So, I mean I traveled to Japan a number of times when I was young. They had, you know, good challenger events basically and being a safe country and everything else. You know, it was okay for a group of girls to kind of travel around or I guess my parents probably felt better about it.
And because you're traveling by yourself essentially.
Yeah, we were traveling.
We all none of us had a coach, so we would literally just travel together and if you know, some were still in the event, one or two would go on and then you'd all meet again. And how old we late teens, early twenty The first time I went to Japan, I was seventeen, and that was like even then, I had no idea about anything. And the coach that was meant to go with us couldn't go last minute, and they were like, do you still want to go?
And we were like yes, So I traveled with a girl that I'm still very good friends with, Melissa Dows, and they're just having to be three other ossies going as well, and we traveled as a group for four weeks and that was when nine to eleven happened. Actually, so we thought we were never going to get home, or we were going to have to take a boat home or something, and got really worried.
It was we had a week to go.
And but that particular trip sleeping in a train station. One of the girls wanted to save money on not having to get an a hotel the last night we were there because she was flying out early in the morning, and she's like, I'm just going to go sleep at the airport.
I'm like, I'm not sure you should do that.
And then so that she wasn't by herself, the couple of others we were like, okay, we'll go with you. So we went to the airport to go sleep at the airport. You weren't allowed to sleep in that particular airport. So then we went back to the train station and she's like, well, let's just stay here. So we set up our bags, ring them all together with the straps of our bags outside the police station in the train, slept there the night and it was the worst night ever.
But we had, you know, some teenagers come through and sing us a song. Some other guy went and bought us some orange juice from like the seven to eleven. Brought it down, And yeah, I mean I could not wait to get on that plane the next day. I had an afternoon flight and I was so tired. But it was certainly on an experience, but yeah, it's the.
Things you do.
And I guess, yeah, you're trying to save money and stay as a group and be safe and yeah, not leave anyone out.
So you're literally just strapping your bags and your rackets to your back and just falling asad.
We strapped all the bags together and then like yeah, put them in a circle. We thought, well, if we're outside the police station, what's going to happen there? So that's going to be all right, And yeah, just hope no one would steal them. But again, I think if you're ever going to do that, Japan's probably the best place to kind of leave your bags out and nothing's going to happen.
I just love that story because it kind of gives an insight into what tennis players go through when they're not the top tennis players. How tough is it on tour?
I mean everyone sees the I guess what you'd call the glamorous side and the you know, the four million dollar paycheck for winning a Grand Slam and all of that, and it is so not like that in the real world of the tennis tour and the top ten and you know, the top players in the world make a lot of money, but you know, if you're ranked anywhere i'd say from fifty or down, it's hard to pay for a coach full time. It's hard to pay for all the expenses. It's not just the way, just the
expenses and everything else that comes along with it. So it's not always easy, and especially when you're starting out, especially if you're doing it on your own, and the players that kind of gets stuck in that challenger level, it's tough. They're not making any money really, and they're just going week by week hoping that that's going to be their breakthrough and then you can get to the WTA or ATP Tour and then start making a living.
So even if you are one of the top players, I'm intrigued by the toll that living on tour takes out of a person as opposed to the player. What is it like dedicating your life to the tour and suitcases?
Yeah?
I think now having done it for so long, you realize how hard it is. And I think you certainly go through stages and if you're winning, everything seems a whole lot easier.
And then if you're learning not doing so well.
But because cricketers have told me many times about it feels like the hotel the walls are closing in on you when things are not going well, when you're stuck on the other side of the world.
Oh yeah, and if you'd not in a great place, or you're in an airbnb and you're like, oh it's bed, I can't deal with his bed anymore, or this shower was broken, or you know whatever it is.
Sometimes some weeks to seem way too long.
Everyone that I speak to, they just laud your resilience. What made you that way? Do you think?
I don't.
I think just really wanting to do what I do. I think a standout trip for me that probably you know in hindsight looking back, I didn't know this when I was fifteen, but I was in the eighteen's team when I was fifteen, going to Europe for ten weeks, and I'd been to Indonesia, I think, for a week or two when I was thirteen, and done maybe one other trip internationally, and then all of a sudden, I was in this eighteen's team because there was no sixteens team,
so I just got put into that one. And I was so far out of my depth, out of my league. The other girls in the team were seventeen and eighteen years old, so playing in the you know, proper age group, and I'd never played on clay before. I went to Italy for four weeks and we had one other event in Belgium and then the French Open.
I did not win a match.
I did not win a set, didn't know how to move, didn't I how to slide. I was struggling big time, you know, calling home two three times a day on reverse charges, and god knows how much that costmom and dad. Then we went to the grass for four weeks and finished at Wimbledon, and finally won a match as nine to seven in the third on court fourteen against my Teina Babakova from Slovakia. I still remember it all and
that was like the ultimate win for me. Having gone nine weeks without winning anything and I finally won something was just amazing. I think that Rezi I wanted to come home and just every day, so no, I just do one more day.
I'll just do one more day.
I think that in itself taught me a lot of resilience and how to stick something out, because I I mean, I think if I came home and just thought it was all too hard, who knows when I would have gone away again. I would have put myself in that sort of position again to try. And I really think that trip it was so hard at the time. I look back on that now and think what a godsend that that kind of happened to me, and that I did stick it out and work out a way to
stay over there. And you know, the next two years I did that same trip again with far better memories. I didn't win everything by any means, but you know, you've done it once and thought, well, okay, I can do this again. I'll go to this next tournament. Or still couldn't win on clay, but that was fine.
Was it as much realizing how strong you really were and going, oh, I'm actually I'm pretty tough.
Yeah, well, I think.
I mean it was a bit of a hit to my tennis because then I realized that there were so many better players than me, you know, everywhere around the world. That was hard, But I think I did show myself that I had some pretty good mental toughness to step.
Out on court again and do it again.
And you know, there was a one coach with four players, and when you're not doing well, you're not getting any time with the coach. So you got to find a way to make something happen. And I guess, yeah, that's what I was able to do.
So before your heights of your career, you actually were struck down by a quite significant illness. Tell me about that.
Yeah, that was lime disease.
I was over in the UK when I first started getting symptoms, actually during Wimbledon, and I was staying with a family over there. I'd stayed with them for a few years. They took in lots of Ossie players and were amazing. They got their next door neighbors to start taking Aussies in and before we knew it, there was like eight of us between all these houses and had a great time. But yeah, I started feeling really ill, no energy, swollen and puffy everywhere, and had this lump
in my neck. And as the days went on, there was always something new happening to me. And turns out months later at the US Open it was lime disease, but they thought maybe I had rebella or something like that. So actually finished playing Wimbledon and I've made the semi or the final of the doubles somehow, and flew home and didn't do anything pretty much until I thought, all right, well, I'll go to the US Open, do a few weeks training.
I'm just got really unfit, and you know, it'll it'll come back, it'll come back.
So I'll go to the US Open.
And I was playing my match there and after like four games, I knew that I had no chance of winning, had barely was going to finish the match. I lost in straight sets, and then just kind of kept training with my coach, who was Dave at the time, and he's like, well, train every morning, we'll get on the bike. Well you know, we'll just I'll do everything with you. We'll do it all together. About a week later, I
was in the hospital. I had the chest pains and all sorts of things happening, flew back to Tampa, and on that flight home, I had this. To Tampa, had this whopping headache and put up with it all night, and by six am I called Renee Stubbs, who's now coaching me, who lived down the street, and says, Stubbs, you've got to come pick me up.
I don't know what's wrong with me. I've got this headache. I can't stand it anymore. I was in tears.
Took me to hospital there and they told me I had sign aside and I was like, I don't have sinusidis and sent me home. So I stayed at Stubbsy's house for the day and by that afternoon I was like, this is something I can't I can't put up with this anymore. So we went to another hospital and they did a spinal tap and then told me I had viralmin and gitis and I was like, oh, okay. And
by that stage it was like late at night. And spent three days in hospital recovering from that, and it turns out, yeah, a couple of months after that, I was able to see it infectious disease specialists still in Florida. He told me I had lime disease, so I'd never heard of it before. I didn't know what it was, what they were talking about. And he put all the symptoms that I had and then environment and giitis and all of that kind of together and made a full
picture and yeah, diagnosed me with lime. So took me ten months or eleven months until I played my next event and really started from scratch again. So literally going for a walk for twenty minutes and trying to keep my heart rate under one twenty was hard. Yeah, it was a huge process. I was over there again, just stubsy,
lived down the street. My dad was able to fly over a week or two later and stay with me for a bit, which was great, But other than that, it was just my little apartment and hoping that this headache would go away.
How tough was that?
Oh? That was really hard. That was a really tough.
Tough few months, well, the whole time, because one, I just didn't know what was going on. And I think when you don't know something, it's always harder than what even if the outcomes terrible, at least you know what's
going on. But yeah, just the unknown, and then once finally knowing and having such a foreign, you know, something that you'd never heard of before, really really affecting your health to the point where people said, oh, you know, you might need to be careful here if you're going to play again when you're only twenty one twenty two years old. That's pretty scary when you've just kind of started to understand what you're doing and really get a grip on what you wanted to try and achieve for
your career. So to have that maybe going away so quickly.
That was hard.
How hard is it? Mentally?
Really heartbreaking?
Because again it's kind of I just got to the top of the sport really in doubles. I was around thirty or so in singles and going along thought everything was great. And yet, you know, when you're young, you think you're kind of untouchable and I'm not going to get injured that only happens to other people and blah blah blah, and then you kind of feel it could happen to me, or it did happen to me, and
oh what if it happens again? Or what if I don't come back from this, And then it goes down that path of well, hang on, I'm only so young and I wanted to do this for a long time and maybe now I'm not going.
To So that was shocking to me.
I guess that can actually happen, and I still think I'm very lucky that I did go to America to play the US Open. If I stayed here in Australia, I don't think I would have got diagnosed in the time frame that it did. So even though I think that decision was incredibly stupid and ridiculous to think that I was going to be able to play, it's the probably.
The best decision I've ever made.
And who knows from that point if I would have, you know, gone on to play as long as I have and achieve what I've achieved if I didn't go to the States and get a proper diagnosis.
So you end up recovering and reaching the peak of your powers. You've both won and lost a Grand Slam final, French Open Final twenty ten up against Francesque Skiavoni. What do you remember of your mindset from that day?
Yeah, I mean that day.
I remember it was it was an incredible tournament because I'd had three amazing wins going into the final and I felt like this was mine and I'd always wanted to win the French Open. And that was interesting because then the day before, once you'd made it into the final, all of a sudden, you had two bodyguards or security guards following you everywhere you went from your hotel to
dinner and just in the background. But everything changed. And then that night beforehand, I remember being at dinner walking back to my apartment again the security following you, and You're just like, why are they?
Hear like, they haven't been here the whole time.
It was so strange, had a paparazzi taking photos of me all of a sudden, and I'm like, no, what's going on? Like everything felt so different and more stressful all of a sudden, it just it wasn't the same as the day before. And then again going to the courts for the match, she had the security in the car and I'm like, this is all crazy, and where were you when I needed you in Japan exactly? And yeah,
I remember being really more nervous. I mean, I think that's normal for anyone being in a Grand Slam final for the first time. I'm sure Franchesca was feeling exactly the same way. But yeah, got out there and just I felt like I never played how I did in the round before against Serena or Hennan or Yankovic in the semis, And having watched that match back now it's not as bad as what I thought it was at
the time. And I think if I knew that at the time, and you could be kind of process all of these things in a better way, maybe I could have got out of it. Whereas I think Francesca she played amazing, she went for it, she played free, more free than me, and played amazing and deserved to win on the day. But everything just kind of hit me with all the other peripheral things that were going on
that I'd never experienced before. And I think the fact just wanting to win the French Open so badly and that was my chance.
I was in the final.
Yeah, Unfortunately I wasn't able to do it, and I could not watch that match back, and it wasn't until the following year. You're at the French Open and lead up to the event, sitting in the cafe and they had just reruns of matches on and of course that one came on when I was eating lunch and I was.
Like, okay, I'll face it. I'll face it now and watch them points it all came coming back.
But yeah, I can look back on that day now with far better memories than what I could at the time.
At the time. What goes through your mind when you go I've made it and I haven't won, I haven't achieved what I wanted to, Like as a human being? What goes you feel like you've just failed and let yourself down, all the people around you down, who you know obviously want to succeed and they don't think that,
but that's what you feel at that time. And it was just, Yeah, it was just really disappoint My parents and my whole family got flown over for the final like all these things happened that just were so out of the ordinary, and yeah, it was just like, oh, that wasn't what anyone wanted and not what I wanted, And yeah, it just kind of felt a bit of a real deflation, I guess, And I think also you just hope and pray that you get another chance to
have another chance to hopefully win something like that again.
It certainly took it. It took a while for.
Me to get over and even you know, weeks in, i'd absolutely changed what I did after that event. Now, if I could do it again, I wouldn't have played straight away on the grass. I needed time to process at all. But didn't you just kind of roll into the next week and then you have another loss or you know, don't play as well because you're not prepared and you're thinking about what happened. And I would do things a bit differently if I had that time again.
It sounds it probably sounds a bit crazy, but do you almost need a bit of time to grief what.
Kind of I know it sounds ridiculous, it's just a match, but yeah, I think so because I kept taking then that into that next week and I remember them playing at Wimbled and I mean it's only three weeks later at Wimbledon, but I was so angry on the court and had nothing to do with playing that match that I was playing at Wimwood, and it had everything to do with, you know, three weeks before. So yeah, I think if you had time to grieve it, get over
it and then kind of move on. Yeah, who knows, those next few weeks would have been a bit different. What was it like with your parents there? I loved having them there and like seeing them up in the stands, but then talking you know, at the presentation everything, and looking up it was just like, oh, I really do. I wanted to win for me, but I also wanted to win for them because of everything that they'd sacrificed through,
you know, my childhood, my brother's childhoods. Everyone had sacrificed so much for me, and it was kind of like that was my chance to kind of make it all worth it in a way, or repay it a little bit or something. But yeah, then when you I didn't get that ultimate you know, winner's trophy, that was tough.
Is it true that it Wimbledon? I think the following year in twenty eleven, you lost a sponsor. Leader Is that right after a loss at Wimbledon twenty eleven? My clothing sponsor actually didn't resign me after I won US Open? Right, that's bizarre? Why would they do that?
Yeah, I don't know, begs me. So you just had this like amazing win.
I'd worn it for like five years or something, and then they're like, I know, we're not going to resign you for twenty twelve and you're like, oh, what have I done? And I actually, looking back, I wasn't the only player that they dropped who had done really well.
So I was like, okay, well, it's nothing personally gets me.
It's just as soon as you do well, they don't want you anymore, which makes no sense.
But then you're like, okay, well what can I do next year? I need something else?
Does that sort of like once again as an individual sports person, and it'd be hard not to feel like it's personal.
So absolutely, yeah, you kind of think you've got this great relationship, you know, you start to know the people on a more personal kind of level.
You think everything's going great.
You've just won the US Open, but then yeah, they don't want you wearing their shirt anymore.
Let's talk about the US Open, because then you do you do win one? What did that mean to you?
People always ask did you feel like you sacrificed a lot when you were a kid to do this? And for me, it never felt like a sacrifice because I was always going to do something I wanted to do anyway and probably would rather be doing, so it wasn't a sacrifice. But it was so much dedication and hard work and perseverance and the ultimate commitment to try and achieve what I did, and it's finally happened.
I guess I.
I had this dream of winning a Grand Slam, being number one in the world and going to an Olympic Games, and that I actually put in one of those time capsule things when I was in primary school when they buried it, and how they I think I was in year five. It was a brand new school and they did a time capsule. They actually sent it to me a few years ago and I was like, oh my god, did I say all that? So I was like ten
or whatever, that's so cool. And all of a sudden, I'd achieved been to an Olympics and won a Grand Slam. So I was like, oh my god, I've achieved my childhood dream. And yeah, that was incredible. But again, I wish i'd kind of could experience it again because at the time it all goes by so fast.
What did I do then? Or did that happen? Or da da da da da?
And yeah, just an incredible moment when that off forehand went in the court and yeah, I'd won.
Is it true that that match point was actually something that you had discussed in the car on the way to the of how to play that particular serve.
I'd played Serena a couple of weeks before in the final of Toronto and she beat me in straight sets. And then when we were gotten to the final. Yeah, Dave and I talked about the match beforehand, and there was three or four things that he said, this is what you got to do today instead of what you did in Toronto and named them, and I'm sure that off forehand. Well, the return in particular of her second serve was one of it. I cannot remember them for
the life of me. I wish I had the notes that he gave me to walk on court with, but I don't know where they are. But absolutely trying to do that on second serve was pivotal and I did it the whole match, so it's not like all of a sudden on a match point I did something I hadn't been doing.
I'd hit that shot so many times. But yeah, that was a key thing.
I guess that that was definitely one that was going into the final.
Did you take a moment after that final by yourself? Was there a moment where you went, shit, I've just I've achieved my dream right now.
It wasn't until I got to back to the hotel and I kind of walked in, dropped my bags and I just started crying. But it was like, yeah, I guess it was sort of happy tears, but it was I think it was just emotion coming out. Let you see Roger let it all out on the podium. For me, I just got into my room, was like, ugh, it's done. It's over a one and just started crying. And yeah, that was kind of a bit of a strange moment, I guess, but yeah, and then it was kind of like, Okay, what's the time we.
Got to go. I gotta get showered to do this dad.
It was just a manic, hectic kind of from when that match point happened for the next few days, it just felt like there was so much going on and just a bit of a blur.
One thing that your coach said to me, David, was it takes personal development to become a champion, And he said he wished that more people knew the personal development you sort of had over the years, as opposed to just you know, the tactics, the work that got on behind the scenes, the gym work and all that sort of thing. Tell me about the work that you did with Ruth Anderson, the sports psychologist, and what that did for you in your career.
Yeah, I think it's.
Yeah, it's easy to kind of just think, oh, well, I'm a tennis player, so you do AB and C on the court off the court, and that's all it is. But all the off court stuff, personal life, all of that affects what you're doing out there. But I think actually, for so long when I especially when I was young, no matter what was going on personally, I felt like I could kind of compartmentalize it all step on court
and that didn't matter. And I think now as I've got a bit older, that's become far harder to do. I think it all kind of builds up over your lifetime and then all of a sudden it really does for everything that's going on then affects what you do on court. But early on I could kind of now put it aside, like when I was little going down to the court and it was like that was my time. I was able to still do that for such a long time. But then, yeah, I started working with Ruth
sports psychologists, and I found that hard. I wasn't always easy to start opening up or even know kind of sometimes well, today's session is going to be about this, and even what I had to work on.
Sometimes.
I think sometimes when you're unsure or you're doing all right, you kind of like, well, there's nothing to talk about, I'm fine. But then you start opening up and it comes it's their job to, you know, dig and dig and then open up and you peel back all the layers and you actually start getting somewhere. So, yeah, I did a lot of work with Ruth over the years, and yeah, often it was about you know, well this was happening personally, so da da da da, or struggled
with this loss, but was it really this loss? And you kind of start working out how the whole kind of picture can come together for your life, I guess, but ultimately to help you in winning more matches.
What were some of the things that you had to work on.
I think being comfortable in myself. Yeah, you know, I'm just being who I was, And I think that.
Personally, being like Okay, well I'm gay, but I'm not I don't want to say anything about it, and you know, all of that kind of just how to deal with that but then not share that. But I still think.
I don't feel like everyone should have to tell everyone everything, because it's that's a total personal choice. But I think you've still got to feel good about it in yourself, and as long as you're happy with it and you understand it and you're good, it really doesn't matter how you want to go about it. But I think there's certainly a time where that was kind of maybe half for me to understand or you know, deal with that with my family or something like just being I think
a bit more true and open to myself. That was really important.
When did you become comfortable within yourself? When did you have that moment?
I don't know when it necessarily was, but I think I mean for a long time, all my family, my friends, anyone who knew me knew.
It just wasn't made public.
So that's why I guess what happened last year is kind of funny in hidesight because it really wasn't used to anyone that knew me.
But yeah, I don't know.
I think even even until maybe you know, I put that out on Instagram, you still kind of go through moments where it's a bit of a struggle, and you know, I'm working with a new psychologist now and we probably talked about it even more than back then and just being comfort and accepting who you are and yeah, all
of it. So I think it's still being probably work in progress, and it's not something that probably is ever really going to go away, and it's just you know, part of trying to develop and grow as a person.
I think, what is it that scared you all those years?
I think just being judged and you know it's something you know wrong or you know, or what if they know they're not gonna like you, or you know, you lose like you read about people losing sponsors or something like that, but they or you eventually when you know,
you make that personal contact with them. And again it's not like I ever really had a bad experience, but I think it's just that stigma that's attached with it all, which I think is getting better now that just kind of always scared me and probably just to really open up was always kind of hard for me.
Do you wish that you'd come out earlier or is this just been the way that your journey has gone.
That's why we were talking about that last night just coincidentally we live Yeah, yeah, yeah, I kind of do I wish i'd done things a little bit differently, but I also did them the way I did because of how I felt at the time, and that was right. And I think you can't force anyone to do any whether it's this subject or something else. It's got to be the right time for the person. And even though I came close and it was like, I don't want to deal with this anymore, I'm just going to do it,
never did. I think it's the right time when it happens, So I don't have regrets, But.
Yeah, I kind of wondered.
Would things have been a little bit different or could things played out a little bit differently if I'd kind of taken that leap before.
But I guess you don't know.
It's a lot of weight for person to carry around. I would imagine.
Yeah, I think again, you don't realize that until you kind of get it off. Your shot is yeah, you can kind of again push it to the side, doesn't matter now, and then something else, you know, becomes priority and get into you know, other issues or whatever, and then but it always kind of comes back, So I
think it's always lingering there. But yeah, for sure, it's a lot of weight when you're you know, you feel like you're again, not that you're lying or you're necessarily hiding something, because I don't think everyone has to divulge everything about themselves.
It's just that little.
Bit of cautiousness around what you do, and that gets tiring and becomes well, why did I ever need to do that? Why did I feel like I needed to do that when could have just been.
A whole lot simpler.
Did you always know? No?
I don't think so.
I think it's again just growing up and thinking, oh, well, yes I am now or will I be?
You know, I don't know, but.
No, I mean, I mean it's been a while, but yeah, I think until you really no, you know, I guess did you come out to your parents or did they just always No? No, I did, but I don't know if they had an income. I think parents probably have a slight inkling at you know, certain behaviors at certain times or what you're doing. But you know, maybe it was harder for them too, because I was traveling, I was away. They didn't see me as much as my two brothers. I wasn't at home and all of that.
But no, I did tell them and we had you know, the conversation and the talk and the tears and everything else that goes along with it, and probably a few times actually, but yeah, that certainly wasn't easy. How have they taken it over the years, I think, I mean
not always. I know they love me no matter what, but yeah, I think it's not always been so easy to talk about it with their friends, or it's kind of again it's that I'll sweep things under the carpet and pretend they're not happening, like I said before, and I'm sure that's happened with them too, so but you know, they love lies, love ev and you know, I could not have could not imagine it any other way now, So I think it's it's incredible the way we've all
kind of grown into where we are now and being able to, I guess make our relationship even better, you know, having that kind of out on the table, I guess, rather than they're kind of just not being talked about.
What was it about Li's that you fell in love with?
Yeah, I don't know.
I think we've known each other for a little while but barely talked or anything.
And then yeah, I don't know.
I think she just was always this really genuine person and fun to be around, would crack the jokes and whatever and just always had something interesting. Is you had, you know, great life experiences and stories and yeah, just yeah, I guess all of that together and then all of a sudden something just kind of clicked with us. Tell me in the mindset that you're in social media and you're gonna just sort of I guess you had a discussion with Liz and said, we're gonna do this your
hits end. What goes through your mind in that moment, something that you've held onto for so many years. Yeah, Well, the Nucer Metal I yeah, accepted that award, the Spirit Award, and kind of got up there and made my speech and as.
I was going, I was like, you got to do it.
And then once I stepped off stage, I was like, what are you doing? Like, You've just accepted this award, thanked all these people, and you know the person who really is you know with you every single day, the person you have the most candid and open discussions with, who you want to spend the rest of your life. If you can't mention them on stage, I was like, Nah, that's ridiculous. Now I've at the point I don't want
to do that anymore. And we're walking to the back to the car to the car park to come home, and I was like, said, I want to do this, and I think I still wrote I think I hit send.
At like three am or something.
Yeah, U can medals a late night anyway, but yeah, I kind of wrote it out and I was like,
are you okay if I do this? And dah da da talked about it and yeah, hit send, and it was like, oh, it actually felt so good just to again just open up that little bit more and have all of that kind of that truth of yeah, my relationship with her out there, and also just to finally be like thank you to her because she's a huge part of my life and my life firstly ten or secondly, but again, all of that ties in together, and it just kind of got to the point where I was
sick of not being able to acknowledge her just because she's a huge part of it first and foremost, and I wanted to be able to say thanks.
Everyone that I spoke to they have joy in their voices at that moment because they were so happy, relieved, proud of you for finally going this is me essentially.
Yeah.
How much support did you receive after that moment?
Oh?
Yeah, I mean anyone who again was close to me and they saw that. I had, you know, messages the next day, and I know Dave in particular was very proud of me from that respect. But yeah, it was just like this overwhelming sense of love and you know, we're proud of you, and oh, that's got to feel good, and just that we're really proud of you for just letting it go.
If you now could tell the little girl at first knew, what would you say to her now?
Oh, just be honest. I think you just got to be completely honest with yourself. If that's who you are and that's what you want to be, and in anything in life, that's all that matters, and just enjoy it and embrace all of it.
Yeah.
Again, it doesn't have to just be about your sexuality or anything anything in life. Just if you're good with it and that's what you want to do, go with it, because at the end of the day, it's always going to come back, So you're just going to end up wasting time along the road trying to do something that you don't want to do, or you know, hide behind something else, whatever it is, for too long and then you're going to get.
To that point anyway. So why not do it earlier? Just have it or have it exactly how you want it to be.
Now you're a mom as well with Evie. How does it shape the way that you want to be a parent what you've been through?
Yeah, well I kind of think, God, I hope Evie doesn't want to not doesn't want to. I hope Evie feels that she can do exactly what I've just said. And whether that you know, that's being honest with herself, being honest with us as her parents, able to tell us anything, talk to us about anything. Yeah, it makes you think, Okay, well, if I was heard, do I want her to experience whatever it is?
Yes? Or no? Well, how can I help her do that?
It certainly makes you I look at so many things so different now after having her in my life, so and I can imagine that's only going to get more and more and more.
You know.
A friend of mine said to me, or will just welcome to feeling guilty for the rest of your life?
And I was like, oh great.
But.
Yeah, it's certainly I'd look at so many things so differently now.
So you talk about the fact that you're going to a sports psychologist because you want to deal with the stuff that's happening as the person in order to be a better player as well. How did that impact, you know, withholding that sort of thing, How did it impact on the court?
I don't know for sure, because it just I can't can't experience it any other way beforehand. But again it's not like every week I called up and that's what
we spoke about. But again, one thing, even though I was so committed to everything I was doing with my tennis, again, if I could tell any young sports person, tennis player, whatever, whatever they're doing, go to a psychologist, sports psychologist, psychologist, whoever, early on and just start to, I guess, have that experience of being able to open up and talk about whatever it is, whatever issues you know, good or bad
that might be happening. I wish i'd kind of understood that earlier on in my career to then know the impact it can then make later on. And I think if you get used to being vulnerable and opening up at an early stage, it's far easier than you know later on. And even now I still find things difficult, and it's the part of my.
Career that I enjoy the least.
But I know I have to do it, and it's easy just to kind of not make the appointment and let it slide for a little while, but eventually I'm like, no, I really need to do this, and I get back to it. So I think if I'd had that kind of ingrained in me earlier on, just like it is to do your warm up and do your stretches and go to the physio.
Stretch your mind, Yeah, exactly, it's all.
The same, and that's what Liz always says.
She's like, well, you wouldn't not do your shoulder rehab today, but you will easily not go and do that.
So it's I find.
It really hard, But yeah, I wish I'd kind of understood the reasons for it and what it can do for me far earlier on. I think, Yeah, that's a lesson that I would definitely like to pass on to any young sports.
People or person. Yeah, yeah, you're listening to Ordinarily speaking with Brand Slam champion Sam Stozer the Australian Open and the pressure that comes with being Sam Stozer at the Australian Open. From an outsider looking in, I find it hard to watch what seems to happen to you every year. What is it like for you living it?
It's hard because I do feel like I've got that resilience and that perseverance and the mental toughness and fortitude to get through some huge occasions on court, and I've proven time and time again that I have and can. But if I don't win it the Aussie Open, all of a sudden, I don't have any and it just, you know, doesn't seem it doesn't weigh up because it's I'm so good in that area and a lot of times and then all of a sudden, I have no
resilience at all. And I don't believe that obviously, but I think when that's all that you hear over that period of time, it's hard then for it not to kind of be become the truth for that moment. I guess, yeah, I mean that Ossie Open has been a really hard time of the year on many levels over the course of my career. But I think, yeah, it's almost the price I paid for being the number one player in Australia for so long.
I guess, because then all of a sudden.
We're playing in Australia and you're expected to do, you know, whatever great things win the tournament, especially after winning the US Open. Ossie's the next Slam to come around the corner. Well, you've just won one, you know, just win another one. It's easy, Just go do it. Then you're meant to do this. You rank you know, top five in the world.
But it's not that simple. And I think anyone who can win back to back slams, win a Slam, win back to back slams and then defend a title, I mean, hats off to them, and that's why they're the greatest champions of the sport. But you know, it's not that easy, and it's it's hard because, yeah, you kind of feel like you're just getting you know, beat up or you know, dug into the ground January after January, and it's just
a hard time of the year. And then you know, I've had my success through Europe and the States where it's not seen as easily on TV and time change and everything else. So that's kind of almost doesn't get the same height as what the Aussie Open gets the same down.
I guess if that makes sense.
When you know that it's just around the corner. When do you start feeling it physically? The pressure?
Oh, I mean all of a sudden, you know, a couple of days before the first tournament, I'm like, I.
Can't hit my forehand cross God anymore, I can't do this.
And I think, yeah, I've learned over the years that as soon as I have those irrational thoughts that you know, all of a sudden, I can't hit this ball correctly.
Okay, it's happening. The pressure is coming.
Yeah, I mean I think every player experience is that, but again, because you just feel like you're in the spotlight so much more than someone from Russia. Say, you know, my first round loss is far worse than their first round loss in the same event, even though we might be ranked in the same position. So I think that's just there's so many great things about having a Grand Slam in your home country. But yes, sometimes all that other peripheral stuff that comes along with it really is
an ideal. If you're about to lose, at what point in your mind does it come in that you start thinking about do you start thinking on court if here we go again, they're going to be out for me again. Not so much recently, but I remember playing Jang g on center court. I can't even remember what year it was,
probably eight seven, eight years ago now. I was leading six two five two, I think, and lost and as that Matt you know, five or six ' five loser sects set down in the third, you do start to think, oh, you know, it's happening again, or I've lost this match or whatever, and that is the complete opposite of what you want to be thinking at that point in time. But yeah, it's certainly different. Memories had crept back.
Again.
I think if I looked at everyone that I played and you know, lost to at the Australian Open over the nineteen that I've played, they're actually not all bad losses if you look at it on paper and you know logically. But again, I think when that's kind of the token line, it's tough.
Is the pressure does it impact you? Do you think that the pressure at the Australian Open has impacted your ability to play your best tennis?
Oh? Definitely.
Through the middle section of my career, absolutely, I think I wasn't able to play my best tennis. But I think that's for pressure, for conditions, for different things. Going on like there's a multitude of different reasons, I think, but again, that pressure word seems to be the one that is always the reason in the media, and it's yeah, it definitely did affect me that, you know, I won't lie about that for sure.
How does it feel when you walk off the court and then you have to deal with it?
Oh, going to some of those press conferences hasn't been the most fun times, no doubt. But again I think it's just all right, I've kind of the worst part's just happened. I'm out of the tournament. I feel, you know, I'm really upset. I'm disappointed that I lost. That was the worst part of it. So now I have to do this. There's no choice in the matter, and it's not easy and I don't enjoy it. But you kind of like, put up with this fifteen minutes and then go home and not read the paper tomorrow.
Do you feel like hiding? It must be It must be so tough when you know you've gone through this and then it's front page, back page, all talk back.
Yeah.
Oh, sometimes yeah, sometimes you kind of feel like you, oh, yeah, don't go out today, or I don't want to do that. Or whatever, and you again, whether it's happening or not happening, all of a sudden, you feel like everyone's looking at you. And I'm sure that's you know, exaggerated in your own mind, but yeah, I think that's an absolutely normal thing to kind of feel. But you've it's then how you're going
to cope with that? And I think that's the one thing that I've been able to do is then on the whole, cope very well with all of that that goes along with play here and the Aussie Open and everything to then once I, you know, play more tournaments, play more matches, kind of find my form, get into the year, then I find my fate and I'm good
and I can bounce back from it. And there's been many occasions where I've bounced back from a tough loss or a tough moment or tournament, whether that's in Australia or not in Australia, and you know, a week or two later, won a tournament, I've achieved this or done that. So I think my ability to bounce back and then cope with the tough moments is one thing that I'm actually very proud of in my whole career.
Do you sometimes just want to scream I'm a Grand Slam champion, give me some respect.
I've done Okay, well, I mean, yeah, I guess sometimes. And again I'm not saying don't get me wrong, It's not like I have this beat down poor me. Everyone thinks I'm crap at what I do by any means. But yeah, sometimes you're like, I've done some good things, and can you just remember that for a moment when you're gonna tell me that I've just lost six I the Open first rounds in a row. I'm like, okay, well, you know that's yes, that's not what I want and I wish I could have changed that.
But that's not my whole career.
You know, that's just a tiny little snippet of a couple of weeks once a year in a very long career.
Can you put into words what it would mean to you to do well in Australian Open?
Oh yeah, I mean that would be amazing. Like this year, my goal, I wanted to try and make fourth round.
That was my goal.
I'm going to make fourth round, fourth round, fourth round, fourth round. If I could make fourth round and all the second round.
But you know, I think it's just if you could do if I could do well.
In Australia, that would be amazing, you know, times running out now, But I've just never never been able to play my best here and I'm not the only Australian to not play their best tennis at the Australian Open. But yeah, it would have been nice to kind of feel that reward, I guess for playing in front of a home crowd and absolutely putting your best tennis out there would be a very nice feeling.
How do you feel about your relationship with the Aussie public and the Aussie media?
You know what, I actually feel a lot of love from the Aussie public, I think, no matter what. Even my match this year against Jessica Pagoula, I was ultimately getting thrashed on the school line, but I actually didn't feel I was playing that bad. I felt like I was hitting the ball well. And I think because I was able to go out there and actually show how I was feeling internally on the outside and still run for the next ball and put it out, there were still people.
You know, say come on, Sam, you can do this.
You know a set and three love And I think other years when I wasn't as comfortable with myself and what I'm doing and hadn't done the you know, as much work and all that. I think the crowd can then see that in me, and then that's when they kind of feel dejected.
As much as I.
Feel dejected on the court and want to crawl into a hole and disappear, that did not happen this year. So I think that in itself, if I was able to show that in myself, they could kind of ride that with me, and it just felt like support. It didn't feel like oh here we go again, not at all like that. But yeah, I mean walk down the street anywhere in Australia, if someone recognizes me, it's always so positive and you know, we've loved watching you play.
Thank you for everything you know you've done for the sport or you know, playing for Australia, or you represent yourself.
So well, whatever it is.
I've always felt really a lot of support and love from the general public. People who've never met me before, they feel comfortable to come up and approach me and say that I think, I mean, you can't get any better kind of accolade or whatever the word is. That a total stranger can come up to you and say, I've really enjoyed watching you play, thank you for the hours of entertainment. I think that's you know, that's pretty bloody special.
That's nice to hear. I'm glad. Has there been moments where it's all gotten too much?
Yeah, I mean definitely, there's certainly been times wherein can I do this anymore?
Do I want to do this anymore?
It Is there enough good things happening to outweigh the tough moments, or you know, if I don't do this anymore, I'm not going to feel like that on the court. So if I just don't play, I'm not going to feel that disappointment. So if I don't play, it's okay. I've had that conversation meeting. But you know, even you know,
only Stubbsy and Liz know this conversation. I've lost in the lead up event to Ossie Open this year, didn't play as well as what I wanted to, you know, first match since February last year, walked off the court all of a sudden, just got so emotional and was like.
Maybe this is it.
Maybe maybe I'm done, And you know, then you kind of go through all these scenes and stuffs. He's like, just take a breath, Everything's okay. It's only one match. And you know, then I was in a bad mood for three days and finally was like, no, okay, I'm playing on the Open in four days time.
I have to be better than this.
I'm going to be better than this, and back to work, and you know, won my first round and what it bounce back That was from where I fell after my first match of the year to the second match of the year. But again, no one sees that kind of transformation from where I went to to then where I came back to and ultimately finished the summer. So but yeah, there's certainly been times where I wonder, Okay, maybe maybe this is it, and I think, I mean, I know
that that times coming soon, whenever that may be. And unfortunately, with the world we're living in right now, it's kind of you don't I don't feel like I've got as many opportunities to play and do all of this as much as what I want to. But that's the way a lot of people around the world can't do what
they want to either. So I think you've got to look at it as a whole and just really then appreciate the moments that I've got left to play wherever that may be, whatever tournaments I can go to, and you know, experience it for what it is, and really enjoy this last little period that I've got because I know, you know, I'm thirty seven soon, so there's not going to be too many years.
Are you scared of retirement for somebody that's dedicated their entire lives and single mindedly chased a dream, Are you scared of life without tennis?
I'm not scared of what my life will be without it, because I've got a great life and you know, I love being home and now with ev and you know that's going to be incredible. So I'm not scared of that. But I'm scared of, I guess, just the letting go of something that I've done for so long. And yeah, I think I'm I know, I'm going to find that really hard to kind of It's yeah, wake up in the morning and be like, oh, well, I don't have to go to training today. What am I going to do?
And I know that the day is going to be full and there's going to be all of that, and I'm going to absolutely love that and be immersed in it. But yeah, just that idea that that chapter of your life is now kind of closed, that playing side's done.
Yeah, I think I'll find that.
Pretty difficult, at least for the first phase or whatever. But you know, I've never retired from anything before, so I guess I don't really know how to do it. But yeah, I do think I'm going to miss it a lot.
It's because it's it's that balance, particularly in a profession like sport, where adie is kind of all encompassing of you don't want it to be what defines you, but it defines so much of your time.
And oh it does.
And you know, no matter what you do, our work can rightly or wrongly define us as people. And I think sometimes it defines us too much as people. But you know, it's what we do for most hours of the day ultimately, so it's hard to kind of separate that.
And I think Tennis has given me so many great memories and so much opportunity and you know, people I've met and things that I've been able to do and experience and those emotions and not everyone can go to work every day and have fifteen thousand people cheering for them to do it really well, like that's incredible, and yeah, to not be I think sometimes you just kind of think, oh, can I have that one more time? Even now, like you play out on court six, Well, can I have.
That one more time? You know?
And that's why I think I really loved playing the mixed doubles final. This is pretty cool, Like I'm able to play another Grand Slam final, and I really, I think, for the first time ever, you know, played that match really kind of looking at that as a this is a moment that I will never have again.
Just really enjoy it.
So I think, yeah, you start to feel those things, and then yeah, when you think about retiring not doing it again, you're.
Like, oh, but I might want that one day, but I can't have it anymore.
So when you reflect on all of it, Grand Slam champion, five time Olympian, I think it is you.
Don't know four time, if I make Tokyo.
If you make Tokyo. Second highest earner in Australian tennis, I believe, after Layton Hewitt, only just behind Layton Hewitt. When you reflect on all that, it's a lot to be bloody proud of.
I'm very proud of what I've been able to achieve. And yeah, I think I've done farm more than what I ever thought would be, even when I wrote in that time capsule. But yeah, when I really if I really think about it, I think also when you're in it and you're still playing, you can't kind of fully appreciate what you've been able to do. I remember reading something Stefanie Graff said, who was my absolute idol growing up, like, you can't appreciate what you're doing at the time because
you want more and you always want more. So if you kind of just sit back and be like, oh, well, I'm pretty good, I've done what I wanted to do, How are you ever going to want more or strive for more? And yeah, So I think when you're in it, it's really hard to appreciate all the achievements and moments and all of that because we are so go go. You win a final somewhere, sometimes you're on a plane that night going to the next time, you're playing your
match the next day. All of a sudden, that moment's gone. You can't relive that celebration or feeling. So I think, yeah, it probably won't be till I do hang the rackets up that I'm like, Okay, that was really really good. But I am very proud of what I've been able to achieve. And yeah, I guess be able to have made all those moments growing up with everyone that was involved in my career.
Absolutely worth it.
Are you proud of who you are?
I am proud of who I am.
Yeah.
Yeah, And I think I've got some amazing friends, and I guess I know they wouldn't have me as a friend if they didn't think the same. And yeah, I am proud of who I am.
Thank you for spending the time. I don't know when it's coming to an end. I don't know if we'll see you again in Australia next year, but it's been inspiring watching you go about it the way that you have, and I really appreciate you sharing all of this today because I think there's going to be some people listening, whether older or younger, who hopefully care to be more vulnerable themselves now having heard you do it. So thanks for your tom no problem, Thanks very much, soon time.
Thanks so much for listening to this episode of Ordinarily speaking. If you enjoyed this chat, you may also want to check out the episode with fellow Aussie tennis play out the Nazi Kochanakis, who spoke openly about his mental health challenges earlier in this season. And if you like the podcast, don't forget to hit subscribe and tell your mates. If you want to get in touch on Twitter, it's at narrowly Underscore Meadows or on Instagram. Follow the pod on
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